Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jeffdn on July 21, 2013, 12:29:36 PM
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I've been doing some research, an it seems that the G14 that we have in the game is slower and tuned for lower altitude operations than the real G14. In game, we have a maximum speed of about 405mph at 17,000ft, while in reality the G14 maxed out at 422mph at 24,600 ft, which is a large difference. Is there a reason for this? Additionally, there were 30mm gun pods with mk108 cannon available for late model 109Gs, can we please have those as well?
Any insight would be much appreciated.
:salute
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I've been doing some research, an it seems that the G14 that we have in the game is slower and tuned for lower altitude operations than the real G14. In game, we have a maximum speed of about 405mph at 17,000ft, while in reality the G14 maxed out at 422mph at 24,600 ft, which is a large difference. Is there a reason for this? Additionally, there were 30mm gun pods with mk108 cannon available for late model 109Gs, can we please have those as well?
Finally, why don't we have the Erla Haube canopy in the late model 109G and in the 109K4?
Any insight would be much appreciated.
:salute
Yea about 8,000ft of altitude....
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Yea about 8,000ft of altitude....
Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you not have strong reading comprehension? Above 17,000ft, the maximum speed of our in-game G14 declines. In real life, it keeps getting higher through 24,600 ft. The speed curve should look more like that of a K4.
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Finally, why don't we have the Erla Haube canopy in the late model 109G and in the 109K4?
They do have that canopy. The G-2 and G-6 have the standard 109 canopy.
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They do have that canopy. The G-2 and G-6 have the standard 109 canopy.
Gotcha, I must've misunderstood the differences. I'll edit it out. Thanks!
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I think you may be comparing the Bf109G-14 to the Bf109G-14/AS. The later was powered by the higher blown DB 605AS(M) as opposed to the former's lower blown DB 605A(M).
As I recall our Bf109G-14 didn't hit the speeds it should have, but it wasn't that far off.
I would very much like to see the Bf109G-6/AS added to AH or, failing that, the Bf109G-14 changed to be a Bf109G-14/AS.
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What you find in the G14 is that there are various engine setups placed in it from May of 44 through May of 45. The later engined models had the better high altitude performance. They are all DB605s, but it makes a difference whether you have the:
DB605A(M) - straight up with the MW50 boost equipment
DB605AS(M) - with the larger DB603 supercharger and the MW50
DB605ASB(M) - with the larger DB603 supercharger, the MW50, altitude optimized with B4 fuel.
DB605ASC(M) - with the larger DB603 supercharger, the MW50, altitude optimized for the C3 higher-octane fuel.
I always figured our AH G14 as a early model one without the high-altitude boost, not that I wouldn't mind having one of the better motor setups.
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I would very much like to see the Bf109G-6/AS added to AH or, failing that, the Bf109G-14 changed to be a Bf109G-14/AS.
Either or both would be most welcome! There is a dearth of German birds with satisfactory high-alt performance in the game :cry
I always figured our AH G14 as a early model one without the high-altitude boost, not that I wouldn't mind having one of the better motor setups.
Agreed! :salute
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Either or both would be most welcome! There is a dearth of German birds with satisfactory high-alt performance in the game :cry
Agreed! :salute
This is a problem with 1943/early-mid 1944 USAAF 8th Air Force vs the Luftwaffe settings and I consider it to be the single biggest hole in the German planeset.
As an RAF fan I would like a high blown Mossie fighter for MA purposes, but in terms of historical settings the RAF doesn't really need more high alt aircraft all that much.
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Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you not have strong reading comprehension? Above 17,000ft, the maximum speed of our in-game G14 declines. In real life, it keeps getting higher through 24,600 ft. The speed curve should look more like that of a K4.
Nope just a misunderstanding. Sorry im not as pro as you.
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This is a problem with 1943/early-mid 1944 USAAF 8th Air Force vs the Luftwaffe settings and I consider it to be the single biggest hole in the German planeset.
As an RAF fan I would like a high blown Mossie fighter for MA purposes, but in terms of historical settings the RAF doesn't really need more high alt aircraft all that much.
Totally agree. The Ta-152 is great, but there were 109s that filled that role for a much longer time and in much higher numbers. I'd also love a high-alt Mosquito, also for bomber hunting.
Nope just a misunderstanding. Sorry im not as pro as you.
Roger. :salute
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I've always wondered why HTC chose to only model the low altitude 109's. Was it that the G-10 used to fill the place of the earlier high-altitude 109's in scenarios?
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I've always wondered why HTC chose to only model the low altitude 109's. Was it that the G-10 used to fill the place of the earlier high-altitude 109's in scenarios?
Uh K4. Have you looked at the K4's high alt performance?
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Uh K4. Have you looked at the K4's high alt performance?
IIRC, the K4 is a 'low-alt' model of the K-series 109 (being a relative term with the K's), as well as being a standard K-4, as opposed to a specialized high-alt version (odd-numbered 109's are high-altitude versions as well).
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IIRC, the K4 is a 'low-alt' model of the K-series 109 (being a relative term with the K's), as well as being a standard K-4, as opposed to a specialized high-alt version (odd-numbered 109's are high-altitude versions as well).
That maybe so but it is still more than able to hold it's own in a fight at high altitude against almost anything else in the plane set.
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There were even manuals printed for a MK 108 gondola Rüstsatz but I have yet to see evidence it was ever used except on Prototype installations/mock-ups.
All G-14 had the DB 605AM engine, the G-14/AS used the various marks of the DB 605AS, ASB is probably just another designation for the earlier AS to seperate it from the C3-powered ASC.
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IIRC, the K4 is a 'low-alt' model of the K-series 109 (being a relative term with the K's), as well as being a standard K-4, as opposed to a specialized high-alt version (odd-numbered 109's are high-altitude versions as well).
There were no High alt K4's it was a standard version with a FTH around 24K,the G10 arrived after the K4's and were made of mostly repaired G6's and 14's. Both the G6 and G14's came with the various motor that EagleDNY mentioned.
Most but not all odd numbered 109's were pressurized,which apparently didn't work that great do to leaks.
:salute
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I've always wondered why HTC chose to only model the low altitude 109's.
I don't know. I am curious as well.
Was it that the G-10 used to fill the place of the earlier high-altitude 109's in scenarios?
No, it really wasn't a Bf109G-10. It was a Bf109K-4 with the same exact performance chart as the Bf109K-4 has in AH right now, top speed of 452mph and all. In AH1 HTC simply called in a Bf109G-10 so they could put 20mm and gondola option on it. In AH2 they decided they wanted a greater degree of accuracy so they removed those options and correctly labeled it a Bf109K-4.
There really has never been a high altitude Bf109 in AH. I really hope that gets addressed someday.
Once the AH1 models have all been updated I would like to see the "core" (i.e. famous) WWII aircraft get updated from their older AH2 models to current levels. I'd consider the B-17, B-24, Bf109s, Fw190s, P-38s, P-47s, P-51s and Spitfire to be those core aircraft. That would be the ideal point to see some additional models added such as the frequently requested A-36, B-17F, B-24D, Bf109E-7, Bf109G-6/AS, Bf109G-10, Fw190A-3, Fw190A-6, Fw190A-9, P-38H, P-47C-5, P-47D-23, P-51A, Seafire Mk III, Spitfire Mk II and Spitfire Mk XII.
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That maybe so but it is still more than able to hold it's own in a fight at high altitude against almost anything else in the plane set.
And? We still can't use it in any special events set before late 1944.
Besides that, we still have none of the high altitude 109s modeled, regardless of the K4's inherent capabilities at alt.
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And? We still can't use it in any special events set before late 1944.
Besides that, we still have none of the high altitude 109s modeled, regardless of the K4's inherent capabilities at alt.
:cry
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:cry
Let me put into perspective for you. Not having an AS powered 109 would be like not having any Corsair between the F4U-1 and the U-4. There are very limited special events where the U-4 would be used - and rightly so; but that means you USN guys would be hamstrung by the limited capabilities of the F4U-1 in events where you should have -1A's or -1D's.
While not a perfect analogy, I hope you see the point.
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Let me put into perspective for you. Not having an AS powered 109 would be like not having any Corsair between the F4U-1 and the U-4. There are very limited special events where the U-4 would be used - and rightly so; but that means you USN guys would be hamstrung by the limited capabilities of the F4U-1 in events where you should have -1A's or -1D's.
While not a perfect analogy, I hope you see the point.
Furthermore, the Ta-152 is really the only German fighter we have that's still good at 30,000 ft. There are several that can operate up there, but they're not meant to.
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G14/AS was the higher altitude G14 yes.
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G14/AS was the higher altitude G14 yes.
...that has been firmly established.
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Furthermore, the Ta-152 is really the only German fighter we have that's still good at 30,000 ft. There are several that can operate up there, but they're not meant to.
What other German fighters were designed for operations above 30,000ft?On the Allied side I can only think of P-47s and some low production versions of the Spitfire. Not a lot of WWII fighters weren't well past critical altitude by the time they reached 30,000ft.
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What other German fighters were designed for operations above 30,000ft?On the Allied side I can only think of P-47s and some low production versions of the Spitfire. Not a lot of WWII fighters weren't well past critical altitude by the time they reached 30,000ft.
Oh, I know. I just meant that those that we have currently are pretty terrible up that high for the most part. The higher-altitude models of some of them may still be past their critical altitude, but not by as high a margin as our existing stable of fighters. For instance, the G14 currently is awful at 30,000 feet, but increase its critical altitude from 17,000 to 24,600, and it'll have a much better chance up there.
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Oh, I know. I just meant that those that we have currently are pretty terrible up that high for the most part. The higher-altitude models of some of them may still be past their critical altitude, but not by as high a margin as our existing stable of fighters. For instance, the G14 currently is awful at 30,000 feet, but increase its critical altitude from 17,000 to 24,600, and it'll have a much better chance up there.
That I agree with. We need at least one earlier Bf109 with a critical altitude in the mid or high 20s. Yes, the P-47s will still rule the roost, but that is historical. The degree to which they rule is just too large right now. And the P-51s and Spitfires IX and XIV just pile on the already lopsided situation.
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That I agree with. We need at least one earlier Bf109 with a critical altitude in the mid or high 20s. Yes, the P-47s will still rule the roost, but that is historical. The degree to which they rule is just too large right now. And the P-51s and Spitfires IX and XIV just pile on the already lopsided situation.
Hear, hear! My thoughts exactly. Now, HTC -- pretty please? :pray :O :angel:
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So let me get this... there were 2 types of G-14s made to suit 2 fronts?
Pretty much the rule of thumb is that West front = strategic, hi-alt ; and East front = tactical, low-mid alt.
So that means G-14/AS is optimized against western allied air force and our current G-14 seems optimized for low alt air superiority against the likes of La-7 and Yak-3?
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So let me get this... there were 2 types of G-14s made to suit 2 fronts?
Pretty much the rule of thumb is that West front = strategic, hi-alt ; and East front = tactical, low-mid alt.
So that means G-14/AS is optimized against western allied air force and our current G-14 seems optimized for low alt air superiority against the likes of La-7 and Yak-3?
No, they produced a high altitude version for high altitude work, which happened to be primarily, but not exclusively, on the Western Front.
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didnt some late bf109g 14's and g-10's also have the larger tail of the K-4? why not make a seperate model bf109 g-14/AS with the larger tail?/ if fellows are complaining that there are not many special events scenarios that would use such a plane......THEN CREATE ONE. i think a strategic bombing scenario for late 1944 western europe in FSO would be great.
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didnt some late bf109g 14's and g-10's also have the larger tail of the K-4? why not make a seperate model bf109 g-14/AS with the larger tail?/ if fellows are complaining that there are not many special events scenarios that would use such a plane......THEN CREATE ONE. i think a strategic bombing scenario for late 1944 western europe in FSO would be great.
Because we don't need a late Bf109 that is high blown, we already have it in the K-4. We need an earlier one, which is why I favor the Bf109G-6/AS over the Bf109G-14/AS. The earlier the better.
What I'd do is add a Bf109G-6/AS with the later G-6 canopy and the 30mm option.
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What I'd do is add a Bf109G-6/AS with the later G-6 canopy and the 30mm option.
I would absolutely love to go buff hunting in a high-alt G6 with a tater cannon and 20mm gun pods. I would be a happy camper. What would the speed curve look like on that?
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didnt some late bf109g 14's and g-10's also have the larger tail of the K-4? why not make a seperate model bf109 g-14/AS with the larger tail?/ if fellows are complaining that there are not many special events scenarios that would use such a plane......THEN CREATE ONE. i think a strategic bombing scenario for late 1944 western europe in FSO would be great.
You may be thinking G-6, most G-14s had the taller tail as does ours. Some later G-6s had various combinations of tall tail, MW-50 boost, and Erla-Haube canopy that differentiate our G-14 from our G-6.
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Hunting spits in a G6 with taters? Yes please :aok
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I have in the past asked for a 109G-14/AS or a 109g6/AS but it has always met resistance from the community.
I also suspect finding documents and sorting it all out is a bit challenging but I'm sure there are some history bufs in the community who can help...
I believe that there wasn't 'one' engine for the 109-g14/AS... ie...
for the 109 -g14 & g14/as
DB605 / ASB(M) (B4 fuel) : 1800 PS
DB605 / ASC(M) (C3 fuel) : 2000 PS
I believe the 'M' was for methanol injection (wep) support.
Where the K4 had...
DB605 DB (B4 fuel) : 1850 PS
DB605 DC (C3 fuel) : 2000 PS
And I think (maybe wrong) even 'some' 109k4s had DB605 L engines which had a two stage super charger (2000+ PS)
Also note that at some time I think the Germans lowered the max power output for the DB 605s and then later removed that ceiling for some reason... don't remember the specifics though.
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I have in the past asked for a 109G-14/AS or a 109g6/AS but it has always met resistance from the community.
Why :headscratch:?
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Why :headscratch:?
Because I didn't market it properly, I suggested it as an hanger upgrade option which one could spend perks on...(functionally equivalent to making it a perk ride) Others felt it was a back handed way for me to want to create 'uber' rides to dominate others with.... which is what the me-262 & other perk planes are essentially already, but its all water under the bridge...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html)
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Because I didn't market it properly, I suggested it as an hanger upgrade option which one could spend perks on...(functionally equivalent to making it a perk ride) Others felt it was a back handed way for me to want to create 'uber' rides to dominate others with.... which is what the me-262 & other perk planes are essentially already, but its all water under the bridge...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html)
Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS is an uber ride? Since when? I'd love to see them added and I think I am pretty well known not to be the Luftwaffe's biggest fan here. :p
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The best bullet proof glass made at the time of the 109s was made flat, which is why the framing.
So say what you want, but when rounds were pinging the windows, the early style might have been better for the pilot.
Further more, curved glass, in those days produced more distortion, even if flat at an angle.
Hence the steep front window of 109s - least distored view in the whole set of all ww2 planes.
Luft had all the aces: required pilot, plane, straight flying deadly amo, bullet proof glass, and least distorted windows. :old:
For which 109 that I would like? g10as I guess. g6 was the most kills plane tho, not sure why not in game.
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Because we don't need a late Bf109 that is high blown, we already have it in the K-4. We need an earlier one, which is why I favor the Bf109G-6/AS over the Bf109G-14/AS. The earlier the better.
What I'd do is add a Bf109G-6/AS with the later G-6 canopy and the 30mm option.
That will certainly get my vote.
+1
I am always in favor of strengthening the mid-war set, which is generally the best balanced and the G6/AS helps to balance the high-alt war. It fits perfectly and does not make any other model redundant.
After that, give us Mossie XXX to plug the high alt mossie fighter hole! :joystick: :p
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Because I didn't market it properly, I suggested it as an hanger upgrade option which one could spend perks on...(functionally equivalent to making it a perk ride) Others felt it was a back handed way for me to want to create 'uber' rides to dominate others with.... which is what the me-262 & other perk planes are essentially already, but its all water under the bridge...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299107.0.html)
lol, i remember that...back when you were being a franz and losing sleep posting goofy ideas. :lol things do change...albeit slowly.
never understood why high alt versions of the g6 and g14 weren't included...for general ma use it probably made sense for a while.
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sthu irene, still following me arround... stupid hater (of luftwaffes)!
You hate so much I question why you aren't still in the military...
No surprise you obviously aren't in marines(?) anymore...
I didn't post forever, only played last 3 of 5 years about.
Finally able to post...
Some stuff in this game is just plain annoying, finally can report.
Great game, potentially, but seems minor bugs can't get fixed... shame on htc!
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Great game, potentially, but seems minor bugs can't get fixed... shame on htc!
Which minor bugs were you thinking of?
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sthu irene, still following me arround... stupid hater (of luftwaffes)!
You hate so much I question why you aren't still in the military...
No surprise you obviously aren't in marines(?) anymore...
I didn't post forever, only played last 3 of 5 years about.
Finally able to post...
Some stuff in this game is just plain annoying, finally can report.
Great game, potentially, but seems minor bugs can't get fixed... shame on htc!
:huh :rofl :rofl :rofl
if i understand your bizarre posting correctly you think i hate luftwaffe airplanes? :rofl :rofl :rofl sorry sweetcheeks, up until my recent return i flew nothing but 109s and 190s and i still fly the g14...a lot. and there are not "minor bugs" in them, despite your imagination.
as to why i'm not in the corps anymore, i enlisted in 1981, after more than 30 years i shouldn't be in the corps anymore...hate was taught in bootcamp, lesson #1.
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What you fly in game means nothing btw.
You like talking crap every time, tell us all about you?
Your name... marine? Like all marines agree?
You don't speak for anyone but youself.
What's your prob anyways?
Get your arse kicked in marines too much?
Did they call you names about your heritage? Religion?
Can't get it up anymore?
Wife leave you for a interacial 20yr old?
Your dog crap on your slippers?
Check out this album... google image it atleast.
'Ethnic Cleansing, pile of dead jews'
Have a nice day.
And I want you to know, I'm proud, happy, and laughing right now. :-)
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What you fly in game means nothing btw.
You like talking crap every time, tell us all about you?
Your name... marine? Like all marines agree?
You don't speak for anyone but youself.
What's your prob anyways?
Get your arse kicked in marines too much?
Did they call you names about your heritage? Religion?
Can't get it up anymore?
Wife leave you for a interacial 20yr old?
Your dog crap on your slippers?
Check out this album... google image it atleast.
'Ethnic Cleansing, pile of dead jews'
Have a nice day.
And I want you to know, I'm proud, happy, and laughing right now. :-)
Uhhh.... Skuzzy, can you come here? I'm legitimately not sure what to do :uhoh.
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No kidding.
I tried reporting him a few times, this irene fewl keeps following, not contributing, insulting, flame baiting.
And then when called on it he seems so easilly overboard amused - types bunches of smileys.
Check my few posts going all the ways back...
So I finally flame-bait back and now it gets mod attention?
Woot! Yay a mod is on the way!
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:rofl :lol so much fail. what's the matter Franz, spend too many hours cleaning bathrooms at walmart?
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back when you were being a franz and losing sleep posting goofy ideas.
Now I understand what you ment by being a 'franz'... don't ever relate me to him.... ever.... I was never like him... end of story
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ya, looking back i guess you weren't that bad Ardy...