Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on August 05, 2013, 06:13:01 AM
-
I recall years ago (a decade ago maybe) somthing about the way ah graphics looked being tied to the physics and flight modelling engine as one package but I could be wrong.
this post isn't about textures or 3d models (which are excellent). its about the actual engine that displays all this and to some extent the terrain engine and the level of detail it is capable or incapable of incorporating while maintaining decent frame rates...
lighting and clouds. like real tactically relevant cumulous and stratus layers of billowing stuff with shadows on the ground below them.
want it all to look real with nice clouds well you need the sunlight under them and the ground beneath them to be less bright than the areas the sun shines directly.
and do it all with 60fps across the board.
right.
well just one dweebs opinion.
-
thought you quit :rolleyes:
-
I've been quitting since 1999 this game is a narcotic.
I want the needle and bong or whatever paraphernalia referenc you choose to look less ghetto though
-
I think one of the challenges with doing this is the fear of losing much of the player base. Modern graphics require costly equipment to run. Some people already have machines to run them, but many don't. This is part of the appeal of the game in that it's still playable running a decade old PC.
I love the game, and would upgrade to continue to play, but I have the spare change to do so. Not everyone does.
-
losing the side of the player base that has cash to spend and demands eye candy to suspend their disbelief that is up to current market standards is just as great a problem yet is not feared?
-
losing the side of the player base that has cash to spend and demands eye candy to suspend their disbelief that is up to current market standards is just as great a problem yet is not feared?
Probably not because..
this game is a narcotic.
-
well thats for the junkies but we are the minority. these games rely on new customers to survive.
look at it from another viewpoint...
if you put AH clips on the history or military channel during a dogfighting documentary in its current unedited graphic state would it be realistic looking enough to make many people want to try it?
the junkies love the eye candy but new customers have so many options to entertain them even in this small niche they demand the eye candy because visual realism to the masses equates to physics and flight modelling realism even though the junkies like us know better.
my wife said it best...
"why are you playing that game? it looks awful the other ones actually look real."
"because" was all I could think to say in my defense because if i went off about flight models and accurate cockpit bars well.. you get the idea.
-
Fester, why not give Hitech a call and discuss. I realize your post question is somewhat rhetorical but no one outside HTC can provide you an accurate answer.
-
I'm not sure I'm ready for AH to look lifelike! I think it's better if it's slightly cartoonish because it already goes to many players heads and they think it's real.
Now just imagine if the graphix were lifelike,how could we explain to them it's just a game....... :devil
YMMV.
:salute
-
I think one of the challenges with doing this is the fear of losing much of the player base. Modern graphics require costly equipment to run. Some people already have machines to run them, but many don't. This is part of the appeal of the game in that it's still playable running a decade old PC.
I love the game, and would upgrade to continue to play, but I have the spare change to do so. Not everyone does.
I think this is one of the weakest arguments. With dated graphics AH is being "priced out of the market" w/r to newer/more shiny games for people who have current hardware.
Folks with old PCs are pretty much by definition always going to be shrinking target audience.. why nail yourself to a coffin of old hardware and ever decreasing market?
Now, I'm not suggesting going overboard with AH graphics, but a reasonable move ahead can be done without leaving too many old boxes behind. Target needs to be at least FSX level (And yes, in some areas AH is already ahead).
-
Higher resolutions seems the easiest to do as well as making the game look significantly better. Even the hi-res texture pack fail to capture every detail a plane should have. You can't even read the warning labels on some planes. Ground textures would actually be one of the biggest improvement.
Second easiest would probably some kind of post processing effects that simply overlaps the games graphics (ala Skyrim's ENB mods). I tried adding ENB to AH, but the game doesn't support it and you end up with missing/weird textures. More color variation and defined shadows goes a long way to cover up crappy graphics. Best part is this is all optional. Higher resolutions wont affect gameplay since there's really no advantage being given. And ENB settings simply changes color and shadow perception (even adding a few shadows of its own).
-
my wife said it best...
"why are you playing that game? it looks awful the other ones actually look real."
I am shure she did. :lol I bet she used the same exact words too. What other ones did she mean?
-
I am shure she did. :lol I bet she used the same exact words too. What other ones did she mean?
I'll give you a hint... one of them rhymes with "War Thunder"... and someone I know LIVED in Historical Battles for the entire weekend... dude needs an intervention.
-
Aces High is massively multiplayer, the new games are prettier but are very limited in how many people can play at once, I'd say your answer as to why not is there, for it seems you cannot have both.
-
Not saying anyone should move or anything like that, but take a look at the "eyecandy" in Warthunder. :O
Nutz
-
War Thunder is pretty...and fun too to be honest. But it won't replace AH for me anytime soon. Game play is way too limited. I spend time on it...but I keep coming back to the legal, digital cocane that is AH. :x
Would I like it if AH had better graphics? Sure. Do pretty graphics make a good game? Nope. Don't believe me....then look at the number of people playing Mindcraft....great game play with (intentionally) bad graphics and it's super popular. AH is similar to Mindcraft in my mind...great game play, dated graphical presentation.
-
BTW - I'm not implying that AH has graphics anywhere nearly as dated as Mindcraft's....tho' a Aces High / Mindcraft combination might be fun!
-
BTW - I'm not implying that AH has graphics anywhere nearly as dated as Mindcraft's....tho' a Aces High / Mindcraft combination might be fun!
Highcraft?
-
Um....well....sure, why not! Looks like it's already available! I'm a genius! :D
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc3fnaiTch1qbsw9ro1_1280.png)
-
I liked how (up until somewhat recently when the new clouds were giving some players problems (I wasn't one of them)) HTC was adding a little more detail/eye-candy for the game almost every major patch in an attempt to make it better.
I wish that path would continue, but there may be some stiff resistance ahead (IE the recent MA clouds).
I hope the clouds to get turned back on eventualy, and then we get some better environmental shadows (off clouds and mountains/hills, and then maybe some better horrizons (no high-alt pixelation on the edges, some sunrises/sunsets/twilight), and then maybe some severe weather (IE: mini fronts that roll randomly thru a sector for ~40-minutes every 4-5 hours), and then etc... I like the slow and steady path, it's gradual and progressive, so if you have a pc/rig that is starting to reach its limits now, you have enough time to save up and upgrade your equipment.
-
My wife plays the Laura Croft Tomb Raider games while I play AH. The last Laura Croft game is pure violence. The puzzle solving portion of the game as given way to super eye candy blood and guts gamer type play. Is that the way we want AH to go? i think not. Eye candy is nifty stuff but it not the highest priority to me.
-
Um....well....sure, why not! Looks like it's already available! I'm a genius! :D
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc3fnaiTch1qbsw9ro1_1280.png)
I'm in! Where do I apply for beta? :cheers:
-
My wife plays the Laura Croft Tomb Raider games while I play AH. The last Laura Croft game is pure violence. The puzzle solving portion of the game as given way to super eye candy blood and guts gamer type play. Is that the way we want AH to go? i think not. Eye candy is nifty stuff but it not the highest priority to me.
that's not what I want to hear. Was looking forward to playing this classic mind teasing game.
Your wife sound pretty badass tho :old:
-
that's not what I want to hear. Was looking forward to playing this classic mind teasing game.
It's a great game, probably the 2nd best game (after Last of Us) released this year. The only true blood and guts part are Lara Croft's death scenes, which can be a little gruesome if you have the sensabilities of a 12 year old girl or old lady.
ack-ack
-
I'm a genius! :D
Highly doubtful... :t
-
I guess the trick is to be able to run high end and low end graphics to suit the client base FE.
To some extent this can already be done.
But does a quantum leap in graphic capability really mean HTC ditch the old one? Why not let players run different graphic engines that suit their FE capabilities.
-
Highly doubtful... :t
Couldn't let me have one moment of wishful thinking, could ya Bunk. Dream shattering bastage.....just crush them like an old beer can!!!!!! :frown:
:cry
-
I dont know about you guys, must most games with "up to date" graphics just look painted. but the funniest thing I get is that maybe it's just me but I dont look at the scenery, I look at other airplanes around me and they look pretty much up to date to me.
one thing I would love to see is perhaps better explosions or airplanes on fire. those two things would be really cool.
semp
-
<snip> I dont look at the scenery, I look at other airplanes around me <snip>
semp
That's what I looked at when I was up there flying around and 'fighting' but I'll be narcotic-free in '14
-
It's a great game, probably the 2nd best game (after Last of Us) released this year. The only true blood and guts part are Lara Croft's death scenes, which can be a little gruesome if you have the sensabilities of a 12 year old girl or old lady.
ack-ack
sounds okay then. Been a fan since the ps1 days.
Any change in actual game play/mechanics as oppose to the ps2 games?
-
sounds okay then. Been a fan since the ps1 days.
Any change in actual game play/mechanics as oppose to the ps2 games?
A lot more focus on archery, quick and silent takedowns rather than gun blazing (at least on hard difficulty), cover is more important. A hint system to help you through puzzles, a lot more customization (guns, passive bonuses, upgrades, outfits).
I think it was an awesome game. Graphics were decent although the color scheme reeked brown and gray which detracted from the beauty a bit but fits the atmosphere. A little short, I wouldn't have paid full price but if you catch it on sale from Steam, get it. Some action sequences were way way over the top (I mean c'mon, dodging a plane sliding down a mountain?), and you get thrown around like a rag doll payer somehow survive. But other than that, the story was a solid 8/10, gameplay was a 9/10, graphics 8/10, and replay value 7/10.
-
How many of those games have 400-500 people in the same arena, with 40-50 within icon range? Lots of little dotty things to move around
-
The solution is pretty simple actually. If you don't like the terrain graphics, get some altitude. :cheers:
-
One day I will write an AH clone rendered entirely in ASCII animation and blow HTC out of the water. Every 386 processor in the junkyard will be able to run my game! Just imagine tapping into the huge potential player base in Africa and south America that can only afford a computer they found in the OECD states trash and a 33600 modem.
Jokes aside and look to the future. Not many people are going to buy gaming computers in the next years. The weight has shifted to consoles and squealing smartphone apps. It will get more and more difficult to justify upgrading your computer. AH is practically the only "contemporary" game I play. Will I buy a new laptop just to run AH? It is already very difficult for me to justify buying a desktop computer. If I do upgrade, it means I am willing to put up a few hundred $$$ more just for this game. I can afford it, but I cannot justify it.
Normally I play the games that I can run on my current machine, not buying a machine to run the current games.
I suppose that at some point in the not so distant future, HTC will have to consider consoles in order to attract new customers. That is when the graphics bar will be raised and we (I) will have to either buy the appropriate console or not play.
-
How many of those games have 400-500 people in the same arena, with 40-50 within icon range? Lots of little dotty things to move around
Is it really all that different from a furball in any other flight sim? Sure they don't have 300-400 people in one server, but that doesn't mean AH renders ALL of them at the same time. 40-50 people sounds the exact same number as a furball in any other flight sim, and that's pushing it. A regular skirmish in AH maybe has 20-30 people. A 40-50 furball happens very rarely and is almost always spread out way past icon range.
-
The solution is pretty simple actually. If you don't like the terrain graphics, get some altitude. :cheers:
exactly what I was thinking uptown! :aok
-
A lot more focus on archery, quick and silent takedowns rather than gun blazing (at least on hard difficulty), cover is more important. A hint system to help you through puzzles, a lot more customization (guns, passive bonuses, upgrades, outfits).
I think it was an awesome game. Graphics were decent although the color scheme reeked brown and gray which detracted from the beauty a bit but fits the atmosphere. A little short, I wouldn't have paid full price but if you catch it on sale from Steam, get it. Some action sequences were way way over the top (I mean c'mon, dodging a plane sliding down a mountain?), and you get thrown around like a rag doll payer somehow survive. But other than that, the story was a solid 8/10, gameplay was a 9/10, graphics 8/10, and replay value 7/10.
Sounds good. I'll deffinatly give this classic a chance
-
What I'm wondering is if it would be possible to update the engine, but leave it at our not great but pretty-damn-good-when-maxed graphics.
Keep current levels, but provide room for future improvement.
-
Or, how about leaving the current graphics engine as a scale option for users with slower systems, while having a new engine for users with better specs?
It's something to think about, considering the fact that updated graphics does not mean any kind of advantage whatsoever, other than it makes the game look better.
-
While home PC sales have fallen, PC gaming is still fairly strong, with companies like nVidia, ATI, etc still coming out with newer and faster technology.
QuakeCon this year had more participants and others in attendance in its over ten year long history. Big games like StarCraft 2 and such are still selling millions of copies. Chris Robert's Wing Commander startup "Star Citizen" has blown everyone away and exceeded their goals and stretch goals every time they set them. They started at 2 million, and now after raising the bar umpteen times they are closing in on 20 million in donated funds from the gaming community.
So, I agree, crappy home PC sales may disappear, but custom and gaming PC sales aren't going anywhere. Having had a look at some of the new console stuff coming in the fall, it still isn't as good as current PC games, much less future ones. Check out the number of units and complex stuff going on in Rome 2 when it is out next month, and you'll see what I mean.
If consoles ever get it together on the controllers and offer a keyboard/mouse option that isn't just a gimmick, but a really well designed setup supported by the games and the consoles, then you may see PC gaming be cut to the bone, but even then, i doubt it.
-
What I'm wondering is if it would be possible to update the engine, but leave it at our not great but pretty-damn-good-when-maxed graphics.
Keep current levels, but provide room for future improvement.
Per HiTech this is already the case.
-
Check out the number of units and complex stuff going on in Rome 2 when it is out next month, and you'll see what I mean.
Damn....I forgot that was coming out next month. Looks like something might actually cut into my AH time....
-
I presume there is a version of AH that has the graphics level of other flights sims, but will impact on those that don't have the high end pcs :old:
I have a high end pc and everything is on high, there is not that much difference graphics wise between AH and ROF.
Its all good fun as Little Carl Carlton said "Competition aint nothing!"
-
I thought he said pies are poo :old:
:rofl
-
It's something to think about, considering the fact that updated graphics does not mean any kind of advantage whatsoever, other than it makes the game look better.
That's not true. Take for example terrain geometry and GVing. You can't have a hill that is shaped differently on a low end PC than it is on a high end PC. Otherwise, on one end he's hidden on the other end he isn't. Or, in aircraft on one end, the guy flies around a hill that appears to be solid from the other end. Same with clouds. If the clouds don't look the same on both ends, on one end he'll be obscured, not on the other.
If the models are different shapes on both ends, there would also be discrepancies.
Wiley.
-
I recall years ago (a decade ago maybe) somthing about the way ah graphics looked being tied to the physics and flight modelling engine as one package but I could be wrong.
this post isn't about textures or 3d models (which are excellent). its about the actual engine that displays all this and to some extent the terrain engine and the level of detail it is capable or incapable of incorporating while maintaining decent frame rates...
lighting and clouds. like real tactically relevant cumulous and stratus layers of billowing stuff with shadows on the ground below them.
want it all to look real with nice clouds well you need the sunlight under them and the ground beneath them to be less bright than the areas the sun shines directly.
and do it all with 60fps across the board.
right.
well just one dweebs opinion.
I think the way Dale or Doug explained it one day way back was that there are trade-off for eye candy is a more playable online experience with a wider range of computers. All that bling is CPU intensive, as well is a physics modelling AND all that data would need to be transmitted online over the internet. Now, if they were to start from scratch today, I'm sure we could get something that looks like DCS products, but you'd need a pretty high end machine to run it and a good internet connection.
It's also why most modern combat simulators like Battlefield 3 which is physics and graphics intensive can still only run arena's with 64 players... otherwise they could run a war on a 512x512 map with thousands of soldiers aircraft tanks and ships. As the saying goes, your internet is as fast as your slowest connection... and the same goes for your computer.
-
If consoles ever get it together on the controllers and offer a keyboard/mouse option that isn't just a gimmick, but a really well designed setup supported by the games and the consoles, then you may see PC gaming be cut to the bone, but even then, i doubt it.
Consoles already have keyboard/mouse devices that work very well, the issue that kept these devices from seeing widespread use is the simple fact that consoles are 'living room' entertainment and as such, most players are playing sitting on a couch where using a keyboard/mouse would be rather inconvenient. Which is why the majority of console games don't use keyboard/mouse as the primary controller.
ack-ack
-
Is it possible to bring AH graphics engine up to par?
Who defines "par"? What is the cost of "upgraded" graphics compared to performance? At what point does the drive for higher graphic quality affect the game for those of us who like the stability? At what point does the focus on pushing the graphic engine to satisfy the customer who will jump to the next latest and greatest shiny thing cost more than retaining the stable customers? Who decides what is "better" when the only argument is "they can do better than this"?
Is this a legitimate coding question, as in, is it physically possible, or a question to HTC suggesting they are lacking in their attention, such as "is it possible to get your butt up off the couch and clean your room"?
Impossible to answer your question when it's based on something so subjective. Everyone's opinion on the graphics is different, even between those who agree they are fine or they suck. No one has the exact same opinion.
So, what's the question exactly?
-
I think the way Dale or Doug explained it one day way back was that there are trade-off for eye candy is a more playable online experience with a wider range of computers. All that bling is CPU intensive, as well is a physics modelling AND all that data would need to be transmitted online over the internet. Now, if they were to start from scratch today, I'm sure we could get something that looks like DCS products, but you'd need a pretty high end machine to run it and a good internet connection.
It's also why most modern combat simulators like Battlefield 3 which is physics and graphics intensive can still only run arena's with 64 players... otherwise they could run a war on a 512x512 map with thousands of soldiers aircraft tanks and ships. As the saying goes, your internet is as fast as your slowest connection... and the same goes for your computer.
One of the reasons you have player limits is that it can become computationally hard (read: exponential cpu consumption for each new player) and possibly overtax a small internet connection.
However, while bling is CPU intensive on your end, nothing of that would be transmitted over the internet. You still only need the position updates of other players, bullets, destroyed buildings, ... just like now.
Map sizes are probably only gameplay/map making resource/download size/game engine/.. constrained. In terms of performance - for a flight simulator where you can fly hundreds of miles in any direction - this shouldn't really makes a difference.
If you fly FSX co-op.. guess how big the map is :)
What matters is how many people are in one place and how far you can see (has to be rendered at great cost to your CPU/GPU)
-
I guess the trick is to be able to run high end and low end graphics to suit the client base FE.
To some extent this can already be done.
But does a quantum leap in graphic capability really mean HTC ditch the old one? Why not let players run different graphic engines that suit their FE capabilities.
As you're a former terrain builder, I know you're not suggesting more vertices in the terrains that are visible for only those that can run with higher graphics detail. So, if you exclude higher vertice counts in the basic ground lattice, then some of these suggestions for two levels of graphic detail are already available, just not in the MAs. The situation is exactly what some in this and other threads have asked for, two levels of graphic detail side by side. Why should HTC listen to requests for graphics updates when the proof is that it won't draw people to the arena in which it's available?
Such things are available as higher resolution ground textures, extra ground clutter for GVs, custom bases and strat, and extra detail that's very immersive.
Do people flock to the arena where it's been available for some time now? No. If people preferred that arena because of its immersive graphics, then maybe HTC might consider activating higher graphics detail. Maybe then we could get ambient lighting and sound as well.
-
<snip>
What matters is how many people are in one place and how far you can see (has to be rendered at great cost to your CPU/GPU)
Your FE can now track and render 128 other planes, assuming that your equipment can handle it. I'd read Hitech's old post that it was 64, but someone (I've forgotten who) said he recently increased it to the larger value. Either way, that's a significant improvement over the old 32 plane count of before.
-
Per HiTech this is already the case.
Problem solved, everyone stop b****ing; they'll get to it eventually.
-
However, while bling is CPU intensive on your end,
Bling is CPU intensive only if the coding is done bad. Most of the work is done using the GPU unless the engine is coded like titles from y2k.
Of course the GPU needs some resources from the CPU too but the GPU is there for a reason - to offload graphics calculations from the CPU.
-
As you're a former terrain builder, I know you're not suggesting more vertices in the terrains that are visible for only those that can run with higher graphics detail. So, if you exclude higher vertice counts in the basic ground lattice, then some of these suggestions for two levels of graphic detail are already available, just not in the MAs. The situation is exactly what some in this and other threads have asked for, two levels of graphic detail side by side. Why should HTC listen to requests for graphics updates when the proof is that it won't draw people to the arena in which it's available?
Such things are available as higher resolution ground textures, extra ground clutter for GVs, custom bases and strat, and extra detail that's very immersive.
Do people flock to the arena where it's been available for some time now? No. If people preferred that arena because of its immersive graphics, then maybe HTC might consider activating higher graphics detail. Maybe then we could get ambient lighting and sound as well.
People flock to whichever arena has the largest numbers. Should Hitech make an experiment one day to switch numbers between AvA and MA, 99% of users would most likely happily log to AvA instead of playing in the 'empty' MA.
-
People flock to whichever arena has the largest numbers. Should Hitech make an experiment one day to switch numbers between AvA and MA, 99% of users would most likely happily log to AvA instead of playing in the 'empty' MA.
Only for some short time, mostly out of curiosity...and then the mass would slowly migrate back to the MA. Because it's not only the numbers, but also settings and availability of planes/GV.
We had this experiment done before :)
-
Wonder what sort of incentive is needed to attract more people to different arenas?
MA has all the planes and vehicles available.
DA has F3 and dueling bases.
AvA has nothing going for it, if someone wanted to fly a certain plane match up, it would be easier and funner to just DA someone. Perhaps a reward system is needed for the AvA and another arenas. A perk reward for flying in the AvA at certain time periods? So say an event starts at 4PM, from 4PM-6PM, every 20 minutes spent in the air earns you 10 perks in all categories that can be used in the MA. Just an idea.
-
Wonder what sort of incentive is needed to attract more people to different arenas?
MA has all the planes and vehicles available.
DA has F3 and dueling bases.
AvA has nothing going for it, if someone wanted to fly a certain plane match up, it would be easier and funner to just DA someone. Perhaps a reward system is needed for the AvA and another arenas. A perk reward for flying in the AvA at certain time periods? So say an event starts at 4PM, from 4PM-6PM, every 20 minutes spent in the air earns you 10 perks in all categories that can be used in the MA. Just an idea.
Perhaps when new planes or tanks are released they are first introduced into AvA for 1-2 weeks for testing purposes? That way that arena gets some attention at least. Then after that released to the main arenas. I don't know, just a thought.
Tinkles
<<S>>
-
Wonder what sort of incentive is needed to attract more people to different arenas?
I was thinking with all the biching about maps that at the arena screen you would see the name of the map. Perhaps changing the names to a more WW2 theme such as "Pacific Theater" , "Europe" , "Pearl Harbor", ect. Of course I would like maps with real WW2 areas not these fantasy land square world or dounut shaped ones. :cool:
-
Wonder what sort of incentive is needed to attract more people to different arenas?
MA has all the planes and vehicles available.
DA has F3 and dueling bases.
AvA has nothing going for it, if someone wanted to fly a certain plane match up, it would be easier and funner to just DA someone. Perhaps a reward system is needed for the AvA and another arenas. A perk reward for flying in the AvA at certain time periods? So say an event starts at 4PM, from 4PM-6PM, every 20 minutes spent in the air earns you 10 perks in all categories that can be used in the MA. Just an idea.
I disagree with the highlighted statements. I know you mean well but nothing like that is needed.
The AvA isn't for everyones tastes, and some scenarios are more attractive to individual players than others. It provides a break from your usual MA experience, with better eye candy imo, vs the open planesets of the MAs. It isn't better then the MAs, it's simply different.
The AvA is also primarily for students of the history. We don't always get it right, and often take criticism for making game-play compromises, but it's the only 24/7 arena where you can find the matchups that occurred, or could have occurred in history. In the AvA, you needn't worry about interference from some late war monsters or out of theater planes. Yes, the arena settings take some getting used to, but spend some time in there and you'll find your skills much improved when you return to the MAs.
If I may, the people playing in there are a very welcoming lot. Just remember to leave your ego at the door until you become used to the settings.
-
I have to agree that AH graphics need to improve if this game is going to stick around beyond us old farts. The younger gaming crowd is being brought up on the Xbox - which might have some other game issues, but does have great graphics. Say what you want about WoT or Birds of Steel or CFS - their graphics are nice, a lot nicer than what we see here.
This issue relates to the terrain as well. I'm sorry but having a tiger tank stopped by a bush is ridiculous. The terrain needs to have some variability in it, and the players need to be able to modify it. Trees should be able to be blown up and removed. Wrecked tanks should remain as obstacles. Dropping a huge bomb in the middle of a runway should make a crater. Sitting in a burning hanger should cause you damage.
The gameplay and camaraderie are what keep me over here - cause the graphics are way behind the curve, and the excuse that they need to stay compatible with old hardware is getting laughable. Xp is dead - leave it behind. Even the low end $50 graphics cards are capable of full HD at 60 frames and anything new coming out with integrated Intel or ATI graphics is at least that good. Most of us will spend more on a Joystick and Rudder Pedals or TrackIR than we need to on a graphics card now.
If there is going to be an AH3, then things need to get updated.
$.02
-
Amen! :old:
-
<snip> Why should HTC listen to requests for graphics updates when the proof is that it won't draw people to the arena in which it's available?
Do people flock to the arena where it's been available for some time now? No. If people preferred that arena because of its immersive graphics, then maybe HTC might consider activating higher graphics detail. Maybe then we could get ambient lighting and sound as well.
I was suggesting two levels graphic renderings within the same arena.
I would not argue that graphics would be the main driver in any player preference.......basically fun/enjoyment is.
The MA is where it is at..all other aspects of AH are peripheral to a greater or lesser extent. Indeed if you split the MA stats into ground war and air war they would still stand on their own as the two top draws within AH. Ground war graphics are challenged.
Graphics are a component in the fun mix. I do not believe that folk would flock to AH because AH had the supreme graphic engine that delivered the most gob smacking rendering of any game............. but on the other side of the coin.......... I do believe that folk use to high end graphics trying out AH might mark it down in that respect.
I share a concern re the long term viability of AH as a purely PC platform
-
Who defines "par"? What is the cost of "upgraded" graphics compared to performance? At what point does the drive for higher graphic quality affect the game for those of us who like the stability? At what point does the focus on pushing the graphic engine to satisfy the customer who will jump to the next latest and greatest shiny thing cost more than retaining the stable customers? Who decides what is "better" when the only argument is "they can do better than this"?
Is this a legitimate coding question, as in, is it physically possible, or a question to HTC suggesting they are lacking in their attention, such as "is it possible to get your butt up off the couch and clean your room"?
Impossible to answer your question when it's based on something so subjective. Everyone's opinion on the graphics is different, even between those who agree they are fine or they suck. No one has the exact same opinion.
So, what's the question exactly?
Putting gfx on bell curve's peak or thereabouts.
But really... AH wouldn't arguably be the top WWII air combat sim anymore, if it had at the very minimum better lighting engine. We're not talking about real time ray tracing or diffuse reflection, nor bloom or motion blur or that kind of eye candy. The sharp, simple old school rendering style that AH has (almost) always had doesn't need to be "fixed". Just lighting. Clouds? They would be really awesome... But lighting, even if it's worse bang/buck than a few items like improved clouds, is the AH gfx flaw.
-
People flock to whichever arena has the largest numbers. Should Hitech make an experiment one day to switch numbers between AvA and MA, 99% of users would most likely happily log to AvA instead of playing in the 'empty' MA.
nope, i would log off the ava. it's just simply for me, with my eye sight I cant see the damn planes without icons.
semp
-
One thing that is graphically scalable without unbalancing the game play is the cockpit. In the present setup any immersion of being there is lost as soon as you see part of the cartoon cockpit when you look anywhere besides dead ahead.
-
nope, i would log off the ava. it's just simply for me, with my eye sight I cant see the damn planes without icons.
semp
Same here. :frown:
MH
-
nope, i would log off the ava. it's just simply for me, with my eye sight I cant see the damn planes without icons.
semp
Uh AvA has no icons? Of course then it's unplayable for anyone with anything less than 30" displays.
-
sit nearer to your screen :old:
-
sit nearer to your screen :old:
I can't -- that's where I keep my pie.
-
I get the sense that one of the major issues with upgrading the graphics is that doing so would significantly increase download sizes. Bandwidth costs money, and if HTC doubles or triples file sizes, their expenses increase. For a small operation, this is not insignificant.
Maybe they could look into peer-to-peer distribution methods?
-
Uh AvA has no icons? Of course then it's unplayable for anyone with anything less than 30" displays.
I play on one of those 17" monitor, I can see dots long before icon range. I'd imagine there would be trouble in vision in a multi con engagement on the deck but as far as spotting enemies at altitude goes...it's not hard.
-
I recall years ago (a decade ago maybe) somthing about the way ah graphics looked being tied to the physics and flight modelling engine as one package but I could be wrong.
this post isn't about textures or 3d models (which are excellent). its about the actual engine that displays all this and to some extent the terrain engine and the level of detail it is capable or incapable of incorporating while maintaining decent frame rates...
lighting and clouds. like real tactically relevant cumulous and stratus layers of billowing stuff with shadows on the ground below them.
want it all to look real with nice clouds well you need the sunlight under them and the ground beneath them to be less bright than the areas the sun shines directly.
and do it all with 60fps across the board.
right.
well just one dweebs opinion.
I really don't care about graphics, but I have had friends and family comment on the dated graphics when playing the game.
-
One thing to keep in mind, those people commenting on graphics, would they play it if the graphics were what they prefer?
Companies can waste a lot of money by implementing the suggestions of people who will never be customers -- or even of customers sometimes. Focus groups are notorious for getting feedback from customers or potential customers and later finding that what people say is important and what they really act on are two different things.
-
Uh AvA has no icons? Of course then it's unplayable for anyone with anything less than 30" displays.
cant speak for anybody else. but that's the main reason why I dont fly there. anything under 200 and no icon and I cant tell it apart from shadows of other airplanes. sorry I dont have an apple laptop that tells me the secret of flying in the ava.
semp
-
cant speak for anybody else. but that's the main reason why I dont fly there. anything under 200 and no icon and I cant tell it apart from shadows of other airplanes. sorry I dont have an apple laptop that tells me the secret of flying in the ava.
So you've tried it for half an hour or more?
- oldman
-
So you've tried it for half an hour or more?
- oldman
been there many hours over the years. once i was there for over 2 hours. had to rely on a guy with a crappy computer to tell me where the low cons where as I couldnt see them. also waystin used to have special events there too when I was in the pigs. I couldnt tell the shadows from the low flying airplanes. I would try a couple of flights then take an m3 to the furball area and shoot at every shadow/airplane that I saw.
it's not for lack of trying but I literally cant tell the difference between a low flying airplane and a shadow. and I have a high end computer with 3 23 inch monitors playing full frames with everything on except for em and shadows at 2048. could play with 4096 but I see no point in it.
semp
-
If all of the other games with killer eye candy could also be Aces High's physics model along with the maximum number of players in an arena at the same time. Wouldn't Aces High already be out of business since WT and WoT are both free?
What keeps the other games functionally from being Aces High on graphics steroids and Hitech being forced to close his doors? All of these years and all of the graphics advances in games. Why hasn't a Graphics Steroids Monster Air combat game with 700 players per room shown up and we are all paying our $14.95 to that genius?
Some of you seem not to be happy with that 900lb gorilla in the room, or want to really explore why it exists in the face of today's average consumer priced technology some scream that Hitech should force all of his customers to upgrade to. Still, everyone knows someone(s) in our game playing on 10 and 12 year old equipment very happy that they can at least play this game with all of their friends in the arena at the same time. And we always have a cadre who effectively try to argue Hitech into crapping on them and cancel their $14.95 a month so they can have their graphics steroids only in the company of a select worthy few.
If the graphics steroid monster Aces High with everything we have now could be accomplished, and keep all of the customers with the existing code technology while looking like WT. Don't you think Hitech would have already been there? You are insulting Hitech based on blackboxing his code, then trying to argue with him as his equal.
-
been there many hours over the years. once i was there for over 2 hours. had to rely on a guy with a crappy computer to tell me where the low cons where as I couldnt see them. also waystin used to have special events there too when I was in the pigs. I couldnt tell the shadows from the low flying airplanes. I would try a couple of flights then take an m3 to the furball area and shoot at every shadow/airplane that I saw.
it's not for lack of trying but I literally cant tell the difference between a low flying airplane and a shadow. and I have a high end computer with 3 23 inch monitors playing full frames with everything on except for em and shadows at 2048. could play with 4096 but I see no point in it.
OK, you tried it out, that's all anyone could ask. Sorry it didn't work for you.
- oldman
-
If all of the other games with killer eye candy could also be Aces High's physics model along with the maximum number of players in an arena at the same time. Wouldn't Aces High already be out of business since WT and WoT are both free?
[..]
Merciless pounding of those poor strawmen, what did they do to you? :)
-
If all of the other games with killer eye candy could also be Aces High's physics model along with the maximum number of players in an arena at the same time. Wouldn't Aces High already be out of business since WT and WoT are both free?
What keeps the other games functionally from being Aces High on graphics steroids and Hitech being forced to close his doors?
Uhm WT and WoT have a combined playerbase of several millions by now and they're new products. You could say that effectively HTC is already out of business if you compare figures and probably just by looking at turnover too. The new free to play business model has proven to be very lucrative for the ones who do it right. Eye candy, fast action.
Aces high then again is a game that requires loads of patience. Not only because of transfer flights to fights which may take 30 minutes on bad days (when you're trying to find action) but for the steep learning curve.
-
Uhm WT and WoT have a combined playerbase of several millions by now and they're new products. You could say that effectively HTC is already out of business if you compare figures and probably just by looking at turnover too. The new free to play business model has proven to be very lucrative for the ones who do it right. Eye candy, fast action.
Aces high then again is a game that requires loads of patience. Not only because of transfer flights to fights which may take 30 minutes on bad days (when you're trying to find action) but for the steep learning curve.
then why havent you left? is it the same reason why the rest of us are still here even though we play other games? I play wot but I"ll quit whatever I am dong over there to come here to join the guys. there's something that ah has that wot doesnt. the ability to bs with friends and i mean really bs with a lot of friends. not just the 3 guys on your platoon that you manage to get into the same battle and if you re very lucky perhaps 6. getting your squad planning a mission and coordinate with other squads is something wot will never have.
the fast action is cool in wot but considering the millions of idiots that play the game and rush to die in the first 3 minutes of every game then pretty soon it becomes bs. you get thrown into battles where there's no chance of damaging anything or where you can damage anything but nobody can damage you. the equal matches are very rare, most are one sided. I have been playing wot for a couple of years now and I know perhaps 10 players outside of my clan. in ah I know many times over that.
the free to play model is way more expensive than ah unless you are part of the few clans that control clan wars, then it truly is free to play. no such thing as free to play model, somebody's gotta pay.
semp
-
then why havent you left?
Again if you look at the stats you could say I already have left. Back in 2002 I logged 120+ hours a month. The last year I haven't logged that amount all together. Last 3 months how much? 0 hours total?
To be honest I've found out that if I have a few minutes of free time and I choose to play... when I sit in front of the computer I'm thinking should I fire up AH and start waiting for 10 minutes to possibly find a fight - or will I boot up BF3 and start fooling around with sniper in close combat. The latter has won 100% lately because it's instant action.
If I was unemployed and without kids / other life, I probably would have no problems sitting again for hours just setting up a fight.
-
I don't understand the hostility towards people who argue for better graphics in AH.
AH has so many things done right that as a game of its genre, it's unmatched.. and yes, because the game and simulation part are done brilliantly, it wont need to be ahead of the graphics curve to stay competitive.
However, we are in a state where the "unshinyness" of the game cuts into the supply of new blood.
Losing MA population despite it's strengths is why I care. Yes I know, gfx is very likely not the only reason. But it pains me to see the gap becoming wider.
This game has so much potential, in many areas it is actually way ahead [view system!] and if you look closely, even the GV part of Aces High is a better tank sim than WoT [Smoke grenades? View range?] (not that WoT is supposed to be die hard sim, just an example of a very successful game that overlaps with AH).
The GV stuff could be AH's entry card to pull new folks in. You don't need a joystick and the learning curve is much more benign than having to master both an airplane and in addition to that air combat.
Right now, unfortunately, in terms of polish AH is still worse than the original IL-2. That's more than 10 years. AH is worse than FSX. That's 5-7 years.
-
I don't understand the hostility towards people who argue for better graphics in AH.
AH has so many things done right that as a game of its genre, it's unmatched.. and yes, because the game and simulation part are done brilliantly, it wont need to be ahead of the graphics curve to stay competitive.
However, we are in a state where the "unshinyness" of the game cuts into the supply of new blood.
Losing MA population despite it's strengths is why I care. Yes I know, gfx is very likely not the only reason. But it pains me to see the gap becoming wider.
This game has so much potential, in many areas it is actually way ahead [view system!] and if you look closely, even the GV part of Aces High is a better tank sim than WoT [Smoke grenades? View range?] (not that WoT is supposed to be die hard sim, just an example of a very successful game that overlaps with AH).
The GV stuff could be AH's entry card to pull new folks in. You don't need a joystick and the learning curve is much more benign than having to master both an airplane and in addition to that air combat.
Right now, unfortunately, in terms of polish AH is still worse than the original IL-2. That's more than 10 years. AH is worse than FSX. That's 5-7 years.
I played Jane's WWII Fighters long before I discovered AH in 2005/06. It's a game from 1999 and it still looks better than AH.
(http://ww2fighters.org/images/109/K-4_Bernhard_final_01.jpg)
(http://ww2fighters.org/images/cockpits/RebelFix.jpg)
I understand comparing to AH to WarThunder isn't fair, but this? C'mon. A game from 1999 looks better.
-
I'm all for graphic engine upgrade, not to make it looks better, but to make it more efficient to run.
I'm doing 3 monitors with TIR on, running with a not-lovely Radeon HD7800, and I still need to turn off some VFX to make the game smooth at 60FPS when lots birds flying around... :(
I wonder if we got Rift-VR in future which require even higher FPS to avoid motion sickness, will current graphic engine have the efficient to do so.
---
I'm from Confirm Kill over 14.4K modem, so I guess I can say this is my life-love?
-
I played Jane's WWII Fighters long before I discovered AH in 2005/06. It's a game from 1999 and it still looks better than AH.
(http://ww2fighters.org/images/109/K-4_Bernhard_final_01.jpg)
(http://ww2fighters.org/images/cockpits/RebelFix.jpg)
I understand comparing to AH to WarThunder isn't fair, but this? C'mon. A game from 1999 looks better.
Sorry titanic3, but those definitely don't look as good as AH. I agree AH's graphics are quite dated, but that is hyperbole.
-
Other than Eve Online for a couple of months and ERacing, this is the only online game I've ever played so the graphics don't bother me at all. As a matter of fact I think the game looks tons better than it did when I started back in 2005 or 2006. Would I like to see better graphics.....yeah I guess so but it wouldn't improve gameplay any. If anything we would get swamped with tons of gamey little twits squeaking on the vox 24/7 stinking up the game because they think it's real. No thank you! My motto is "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
-
Again if you look at the stats you could say I already have left. Back in 2002 I logged 120+ hours a month. The last year I haven't logged that amount all together. Last 3 months how much? 0 hours total?
To be honest I've found out that if I have a few minutes of free time and I choose to play... when I sit in front of the computer I'm thinking should I fire up AH and start waiting for 10 minutes to possibly find a fight - or will I boot up BF3 and start fooling around with sniper in close combat. The latter has won 100% lately because it's instant action.
If I was unemployed and without kids / other life, I probably would have no problems sitting again for hours just setting up a fight.
So basically you're being lazy. Closing shift 4 days in a row, getting home at 1:00AM, I made the time to log into the areas and play around a bit in the morning. If nothing else, I got to say high to friends, BS with my buddies, and slay a few tardlets.
-
So basically you're being lazy.
Aw... now that's completely ridiculous. This game, like any other, is entertainment. If it's not enjoyable/relaxing, why are you doing it? You shouldn't feel obligated to log in unless it's something scheduled like FSO.
If a person has limited gaming time, instant action is very attractive and it's not a matter of 'lazy' it's a matter of 'fun'. The things that make instant action attractive are part of why I don't care for it very often.
Wiley.
-
I've been playing WT for abut 2 days now its FM is jacked man just saying it has great eyecandy even on low graphics settings but I can't play on it very good because that "awesome eyecandy" makes my Frame rate take a dump and when I mean a dump I mean it I can play AH all day long with 60fps but in WT I'm lucky if I get above 13fps and that's flying at alt down on the deck I barely get 10fps and that sucks honestly
-
Sorry Icepac, but those definitely don't look as good as AH. I agree AH's graphics are quite dated, but that is hyperbole.
How did my name come up in this thread?
-
How did my name come up in this thread?
Shush titanic3.
-
How did my name come up in this thread?
Me running on three hours of sleep. My apologies. I will edit the comment.
-
The obvious answer to the OP's question is no. Experience and the concept that the simplest answer to an observation is often more correct, points towards the obvious.
With our current technology you can have War Thunder like air simm games or you can have Aces High like air simm games. If you combine the two you can have a game either priced out of the reach of everyone due to a very low number of subscribers with the funds and PC's uber enough to run it. Or a limited number of players with the PC uber enough to play it. If it was doable it we wouldn't be having this conversation. We would be paying the genius who created it our $14.95 and whining at him about something else we don't have to programing skills to create for ourselves.
As for instant action and limited time. It's obvious Aces High will not support that requirement since it's arenas are populated with unherdable cats. Blaming Aces High's format for not wanting to play it due to limited personal time, is like blaming a Letcher's letching on the girl wearing the mini skirt. No game can make everyone happy, and it's not Hitech's fault your life has changed impacting your available fun time. Instant action games abound on the Internet. Why cheap shot Hitech for not reformatting his game to your changed life status.
Dear Hitech,
Please send a monthly questionnaire to all of your paying customers asking them how their life has changed in the hopes you can constantly change the game to suit their needs. Some of your customers feel it is very rude of you to not meet those needs as they neglect to update you concerning the changes in their personal status. Is it possible your mind reading equipment is in need of it's 10,000 hour overhaul? Or your genius machine from the 22nd century is malfunctioning and needs to be sent home for repairs? Oh!! And your Blatantly Obvious machine seems to be a bit out of calibration these days. I guess Skuzzy is not qualified to maintain hardware that leverages quantum mechanics and entanglement. I suppose it's a lot like herding cats trying to get all those strings back in the boxes.
-
The obvious answer to the OP's question is no. Experience and the concept that the simplest answer to an observation is often more correct, points towards the obvious.
With our current technology you can have War Thunder like air simm games or you can have Aces High like air simm games. If you combine the two you can have a game either priced out of the reach of everyone due to a very low number of subscribers with the funds and PC's uber enough to run it. Or a limited number of players with the PC uber enough to play it.
Umm WT claims they have 2 million subs already. So obviously there are a LOT of people who have the hardware.
-
The majority of online gamers have computers that can handle any graphic update HTC could produce. The way this community has so many people using extremly outdated computers is very rare in the gaming world. I hope we get an extensive graphics overhaul even if it means existing players would have to upgrade their machines to play. When the latest and greatest games for graphic heavy content launch each year hundreds of thousands of gamers upgrade their comps to be able to play those titles.
Keeping your computer up to date with the times is part of playing online games or any game.. Hence why we are at PS4 now and not still stuck with the PS1.. You gotta keep up with the tech to play the titles.
-
When the latest and greatest games for graphic heavy content launch each year hundreds of thousands of gamers upgrade their comps to be able to play those titles.
Keeping your computer up to date with the times is part of playing online games or any game..
I have a feeling that a big portion of those who get the new titles are kids who try to play it with the cheap family laptop. Or at best on a cheap market "gaming computer". There's a constant flow of threads on both of the tech forums here where "players" ask why their brand new computer shows grey squares instead of icons etc. Surprisingly many "players" of any age can't read the requirements for any game, bought online or in a box. I just wonder how many future pc-players are being lost forever just because their hardware isn't par with the games they'd like to play. It's much easier to buy a game with a tag "PS3" for your PlayStation3 than a game with a tag "PC" which could mean anything dating from late seventies. Besides the requirements info on PC game packages has always been printed unreadably small, and I'm not referring to my aging eyes. No wonder PC gaming has a reputation of being somewhat difficult only a computer geek can accomplish. That's what I've heard from many parents when they ask for advice before buying a new computer. "Our teens aren't into PC gaming, they use the <console>. So we'd only need something for banking and e-mails..."
-
The majority of online gamers have computers that can handle any graphic update HTC could produce.
Except clouds, maybe, eh? :D
-
The majority of online gamers have computers that can handle any graphic update HTC could produce. The way this community has so many people using extremly outdated computers is very rare in the gaming world. I hope we get an extensive graphics overhaul even if it means existing players would have to upgrade their machines to play. When the latest and greatest games for graphic heavy content launch each year hundreds of thousands of gamers upgrade their comps to be able to play those titles.
Keeping your computer up to date with the times is part of playing online games or any game.. Hence why we are at PS4 now and not still stuck with the PS1.. You gotta keep up with the tech to play the titles.
I still play Tomb raider and crash bash :rofl
-
The realtime raytracing option in AH is a model example of a misguided graphics code. It's basically a very resource expensive feature that adds no value to the image quality, most people won't even notice if it's on or off from the image quality.
HTC would need a modern graphics engine but obviously they don't have the in-house resources to do that.
-
The realtime raytracing option in AH is a model example of a misguided graphics code. It's basically a very resource expensive feature that adds no value to the image quality, most people won't even notice if it's on or off from the image quality.
HTC would need a modern graphics engine but obviously they don't have the in-house resources to do that.
This, good graphics engines and efficient graphic engines are very different. My friend has a gt 620 OEM and can play any game he wants in 720p (this is including BFBC2 and BF3) because those games are engines which are balanced (unloading details at long range for example)
-
Dear Htc
What ever your doing keep doing it. Every time I sit at my computer and feel like flying some cartoon airplanes and feel like shooting at some red guys, your always there. I click your icon on my desktop and poof...wish granted
I know that others may want you to change what your doing, but whatever your doing seems to be right as your always ther when I click the icon......sadly there were other games where that is not the case. Folks click the icon and nothing....game has closed up shop and customers/gamers are left to find some other avenue.
So in conclusion, you do what you think is right,as what ever it is seems to be working pretty damn well
:salute :aok
-
I'll be pleasantly waiting for the day AH3 is released with brand new graphics, brand new engine and no longer catering to the 2004-PC crowd. Though that would mean they would have to update all the existing AH1 planes. Which is going to take at least 2 years based on the rate they update stuff. Oh wells, hopefully there will still be a decent amounts of players in 2-4 years.
-
Hence why we are at PS4 now and not still stuck with the PS1.. You gotta keep up with the tech to play the titles.
oddly, one of the only games I play on my PS3 is an old PS1 game. because of gameplay/interface and physics.. it looks terrible but has been playable the way it is for 15+ years. (ten pin alley -- best bowling game on any platform IMO)
-
I'll be pleasantly waiting for the day AH3 is released with brand new graphics, brand new engine and no longer catering to the 2004-PC crowd. Though that would mean they would have to update all the existing AH1 planes. Which is going to take at least 2 years based on the rate they update stuff. Oh wells, hopefully there will still be a decent amounts of players in 2-4 years.
Are there ANY high-res 1st person shooter games which have thousands of square miles of active map, as well as 500+ people online on the same map?
-
Are there ANY high-res 1st person shooter games which have thousands of square miles of active map, as well as 500+ people online on the same map?
Eve online for example has 80k+ simultaneous players and astronomically large maps. It's not exactly FPS but beside the strategy part you also have a 3rd person live view of the scene. The engine has to be built so that it's displaying only (and ONLY) the things that the player can actually see and render them. If the engine renders things hidden from the players view, it has failed (and this includes anything hidden behind walls etc. even if they're inside the 'bubble of view'. So the size of the map is practically unlimited, the only challenge is to deal with the player 'bubble' and others in it.
-
Are there ANY high-res 1st person shooter games which have thousands of square miles of active map, as well as 500+ people online on the same map?
It's been a long time since we have had that here too. :(
The point isn't whether the graphics are good enough for us, but are they good enough for NEW players! Personally I can take of leave the eye candy. My box is a new build and can run everything we have pretty much all maxed out and it doesn't have an issue with it. The problem is as compared VISUALLY with the current crop of games out there.... WT, WoT, CoD and so one the graphics look old and dated. Add on top of that the steep learning curve and a subscription that is NOT free and it makes this game a hard sell.
Getting new players to check it out is ok .... TV ads, magazine ads, airshow ads and so on, but if these people don't stick around whats the point of dragging them in? The learning curve is something that I'd hate to see disappear. I would hate to see the game turn any more "arcady" than it is. Graphics and subscription ARE things that could be worked on.
-
It's been a long time since we have had that here too. :(
The point isn't whether the graphics are good enough for us, but are they good enough for NEW players! Personally I can take of leave the eye candy. My box is a new build and can run everything we have pretty much all maxed out and it doesn't have an issue with it. The problem is as compared VISUALLY with the current crop of games out there.... WT, WoT, CoD and so one the graphics look old and dated. Add on top of that the steep learning curve and a subscription that is NOT free and it makes this game a hard sell.
Getting new players to check it out is ok .... TV ads, magazine ads, airshow ads and so on, but if these people don't stick around whats the point of dragging them in? The learning curve is something that I'd hate to see disappear. I would hate to see the game turn any more "arcady" than it is. Graphics and subscription ARE things that could be worked on.
Perhaps AH could implement a free to play relaxed realism arenas, then when players develop they could migrate to the paid 'veteran arena'. Of course as the trend nowadays goes, perk planes could be purchased for extra money in the f2p side.
-
I'm sure there are a number of ways to do it. Air Warrior had a "newbies arena". Any one could fly there, but once you high "x" amount of points you could no longer get ammo. It gave you time to get an idea of how to fly and bomb. If you ran into a "vet" in the skies he could give you a fight, but not shoot you down. I use to do a lot of "recruiting" in there for my squad. If you ran into someone that had ammo he was a newbie as well and you had a chance to win a fight. Less frustration led to more people migrating over to the main arenas.
The important thing is setting a limit. First to keep the "sharks" out of there, and two to get the newbie to move on into the Mains. I don't think you want to split the players if you don't have to. Look at the arena split we had. In prime time US it was ok, but prime time Euro it sucked because they just didn't have the numbers to make them both work. The solution (a third arena that was open only Euro time while the other two arenas were closed) seemed to work well.
Making a f2p setup I think would be the best way to go about it. It's familiar to the newer players. Give them a restricted plane/vehicle set with the option to add more up to a full $15 a month subscription for the full set. This keeps the new players in the Mains increasing the population and so the fights. Also, it shows the f2p players what is available and how much better it is than the limited set they have. Sure you might get a very subscriber to switch to the limited set to save a few dollars (tho I think HTC could "customize" that limited plane set to make that a bit less desirable to most).
Subscription fixes are easier to do than building a new graphics engine. If it brings in more players its a plus to the game play options. If it brings in more money its a plus to HTC, and with more money maybe the new graphics engine would be easier to build.
-
Are there ANY high-res 1st person shooter games which have thousands of square miles of active map, as well as 500+ people online on the same map?
Planetside 2. Arma 2/Arma 3. Here's the thing, you don't see 500 players in AH in the same area. I think your 2004 PC would explode long before that. 64 players is the magic number. Enough to make a small part of the map interesting, and enough to keep the gameplay interesting. They could push it to 128 like some maps on BF 1942 did (that's also a 10 year old game). AH supports 500 players on a map, but have you ever seen all 500 players in a single area? Even in FSO, they're all far apart enou that AH barely renders them besides as a dot on the minimap. I would gladly settle for a 64 player arena with a map big enough to support both the 64 players, keep gameplay interesting, and be filled with nice graphics. WarThunder does this except its gameplay isn't all that great. If AH followed the same path but with their flight models, I think it would actually get recognition from other gamers.
Oh, and play FSX. The map is the size of the world. The graphics are better and you can play with other people (up to 32 I believe?). Now we don't need a world sized map, drop it down to 1/4 or even less and add in more room for players. Hell, I'll even settle for FSX graphics.
-
It's been a long time since we have had that here too. :(
The point isn't whether the graphics are good enough for us, but are they good enough for NEW players! Personally I can take of leave the eye candy. My box is a new build and can run everything we have pretty much all maxed out and it doesn't have an issue with it. The problem is as compared VISUALLY with the current crop of games out there.... WT, WoT, CoD and so one the graphics look old and dated. Add on top of that the steep learning curve and a subscription that is NOT free and it makes this game a hard sell.
Getting new players to check it out is ok .... TV ads, magazine ads, airshow ads and so on, but if these people don't stick around whats the point of dragging them in? The learning curve is something that I'd hate to see disappear. I would hate to see the game turn any more "arcady" than it is. Graphics and subscription ARE things that could be worked on.
When I logged on yesterday I was surprised to see on 300 but 430ish on during prime time. Things might be looking up :banana:
-
Several people have mentioned the F2P (Free to Play) economic model. Can someone who actually plays one of the new F2P online simulations please describe how the F2P actually works out? I have seen disturbing online user reviews that claim F2P is really P2W (Pay to Win); that you have to pay, and pay a LOT, or you are just cannon fodder. Can anyone confirm or counter that opinion? I'm happy to pay $14.95 a month for AH, but I'm not going to pay an indeterminate, possibly very high, amount just to get access to a plane or vehicle that isn't completely useless.
-
Several people have mentioned the F2P (Free to Play) economic model. Can someone who actually plays one of the new F2P online simulations please describe how the F2P actually works out? I have seen disturbing online user reviews that claim F2P is really P2W (Pay to Win); that you have to pay, and pay a LOT, or you are just cannon fodder. Can anyone confirm or counter that opinion? I'm happy to pay $14.95 a month for AH, but I'm not going to pay an indeterminate, possibly very high, amount just to get access to a plane or vehicle that isn't completely useless.
One of the most popular F2P MMO is called League of Legends. Zero pay to win, all you pay for is purely cosmetics. You can easily play the game without spending any amount of money and still be competitive. Millions of players, an eSport competitive scene, and played internationally in Asia, Europe, Oceania, NA, and recently SA.
If you want to apply that concept to a flight sim, allow users to pay for appearance customizations to their planes. That means nose art, designation, color, or whatever. The Pay to Wn model rarely ever has the same income as the true F2P model. It also helps to have an awesome game of course :). I payed well over $100 for League of Legends simply because I wanted to support the game and stand out a little bit. There are stories of people who spent $1000+ on purely cosmetic items. Even competitive players who play for real life money and as a job, are not required to spend a single dime on the game.
-
Basically, the game is free, but you pay for extras.
However that has been corrupted as of late. There seems to be a new "free to play, pay to win" model, epitomized by WoT.
Sure, everything is "technically" free. But by the game's mechanics, you have to be VERY good to make a net gain in credits at higher tier matches. Or you can pay for premium to earn extra credits, or even a special that will not you roughly 10x the gross credits earned in a tank of the same tier.
Something I thought of though, is if HTC went with a limited f2p model, they would have to separate the noobs for a time as well. Otherwise their lack of skill would only be compounded by the limited plane set.
Perhaps borrow AW's noobs arena concept, and combine it with a limited plane set. After 6 months, you cannot access the noob arena, but you can access the MA's from day one.
-
Basically, the game is free, but you pay for extras.
However that has been corrupted as of late. There seems to be a new "free to play, pay to win" model, epitomized by WoT.
Sure, everything is "technically" free. But by the game's mechanics, you have to be VERY good to make a net gain in credits at higher tier matches. Or you can pay for premium to earn extra credits, or even a special that will not you roughly 10x the gross credits earned in a tank of the same tier.
.
That's why League of Legends is so popular, one of the few F2P model without any BS. IMO, the $15 per month model is just no longer viable. Two other games cling on to it, EVE and World of Warxraft (and its playerbase is decreasing every month). It's either a pay one time thing, or a F2P with micro transactions. I would prefer AH go with the pay one time model ($40). It's not a grade AAA title, so asking for $60 as the norm is pushing it and will likely scare away potentional buyers. Put it on Steam and you're guaranteed to rack in at the very least a few thousand players.
-
Well then where do the updates come from, if they're not making steady money?
A one-time fee wouldn't work for AH.
-
Umm WT claims they have 2 million subs already. So obviously there are a LOT of people who have the hardware.
most will play with pos puters that wont be able to handle ah. my gf's laptop can play wot with about 15 fps at minimum settings while only gets 5 fps in ah with minimum settings.
btw I have a good fast computer and play ah with full frames and everything on except em and shadows at 2096. I only get about 35 fps and lots of stutters if playing with everything maxed in wot. and zoomed in, I cant keep track of action in heavy fights.
semp
-
That's why League of Legends is so popular, one of the few F2P model without any BS. IMO, the $15 per month model is just no longer viable. Two other games cling on to it, EVE and World of Warxraft (and its playerbase is decreasing every month). It's either a pay one time thing, or a F2P with micro transactions. I would prefer AH go with the pay one time model ($40). It's not a grade AAA title, so asking for $60 as the norm is pushing it and will likely scare away potentional buyers. Put it on Steam and you're guaranteed to rack in at the very least a few thousand players.
first there isnt guarantees on anything except death and taxes.
second, what kind of micro transactions are you talking about? perks? buy airplanes like in wot? that would be dumb. and last there's already whining about hordes and ho's and based on how players act in wot, do you really want to see hundred of players diving in hoing everything they see before they crash or die?
go play wot and wowp and see if that's what you really want to happen in ah. because if that happens, lots of long time players will be gone in a flash.
one thing that attracts long time players is that you make a lot of friends here. there's the fights and stuff happening on 200 but that just ads to the fun of it. in games like wot you can go hundreds of games without seeing a friend on either side unless you platoon. in ah you have to really go out of your way to go a day without somebody on either side saying "hi".
semp
-
first there isnt guarantees on anything except death and taxes.
second, what kind of micro transactions are you talking about? perks? buy airplanes like in wot? that would be dumb. and last there's already whining about hordes and ho's and based on how players act in wot, do you really want to see hundred of players diving in hoing everything they see before they crash or die?
go play wot and wowp and see if that's what you really want to happen in ah. because if that happens, lots of long time players will be gone in a flash.
one thing that attracts long time players is that you make a lot of friends here. there's the fights and stuff happening on 200 but that just ads to the fun of it. in games like wot you can go hundreds of games without seeing a friend on either side unless you platoon. in ah you have to really go out of your way to go a day without somebody on either side saying "hi".
semp
So I'm guessing you didn't read any of my posts.
One of the most popular F2P MMO is called League of Legends. Zero pay to win, all you pay for is purely cosmetics. You can easily play the game without spending any amount of money and still be competitive. Millions of players, an eSport competitive scene, and played internationally in Asia, Europe, Oceania, NA, and recently SA.
If you want to apply that concept to a flight sim, allow users to pay for appearance customizations to their planes. That means nose art, designation, color, or whatever. The Pay to Wn model rarely ever has the same income as the true F2P model. It also helps to have an awesome game of course :). I payed well over $100 for League of Legends simply because I wanted to support the game and stand out a little bit. There are stories of people who spent $1000+ on purely cosmetic items. Even competitive players who play for real life money and as a job, are not required to spend a single dime on the game.
Then color me intrigued, do you want a small puny playerbase or do you want a large expansive playerbase? Because people here are crying for more players but then there's people who want AH to remain as small as possible so they can say "hi" to their buds. Make up your mind. If you want small, then let the game stay the way it is until it dies. If you want large, advertise, change the business model, do something to attract more players.
-
Many MMORPGs offer a hybrid system. You can pay a monthly fee and have full access, perhaps barring some cosmetic things that everybody has to buy if they want it, or you can purchase things al la carte but play for free. Sometimes there are other restrictions on the free players, such as loot quality that can drop being capped below where it is if you pay for it.
In terms of AH this could be translated as something like:
Free to play, but only have access to a limited number of units/weapons and perks earned at 1/4th normal rate and having to purchase the access to other units and weapons or you could opt to pay a monthly fee as now and have full access and regular perk earning rates.
FTP units might look something like:
A6M5
B5N2
Bf109G-6
C.202
C-47A
*F4U-1C (perk fighter)
G4M1
He111H
Hurricane Mk IId
La-5FN
LVT(A)2
*Mosquito Mk XVI (perk bomber)
P-51B
Panzer IV F
SBD-5
Sd.Kfz. 251
*Sherman VC (perk GV)
Spitfire Mk V
500lb/250kg class bombs
As a starting lineup that hits key points without giving away the farm, you get a P-51, but not the D, a Bf109, not the K-4, a Spitfire, not the XVI. All functions in the game can be done, including something to spend perks on, but in all cases there are better, tempting things to get. Unit costs would probably have to be based on ENY rating or such so a Spitfire Mk I might cost $0.50 and a Spitfire Mk XVI might cost $4.00.
*A strong argument can be made that no perk units should be in the base FTP package, but rather that the temptation to buy something to spend the perk points the player already has earned would be a good way to make more money.
Ultimately, I have no way of knowing the economics of such a system as applied to HTC.
-
Many MMORPGs offer a hybrid system. You can pay a monthly fee and have full access, perhaps barring some cosmetic things that everybody has to buy if they want it, or you can purchase things al la carte but play for free. Sometimes there are other restrictions on the free players, such as loot quality that can drop being capped below where it is if you pay for it.
In terms of AH this could be translated as something like:
Free to play, but only have access to a limited number of units/weapons and perks earned at 1/4th normal rate and having to purchase the access to other units and weapons or you could opt to pay a monthly fee as now and have full access and regular perk earning rates.
FTP units might look something like:
A6M5
B5N2
Bf109G-6
C.202
C-47A
*F4U-1C (perk fighter)
G4M1
He111H
Hurricane Mk IId
La-5FN
LVT(A)2
*Mosquito Mk XVI (perk bomber)
P-51B
Panzer IV F
SBD-5
Sd.Kfz. 251
*Sherman VC (perk GV)
Spitfire Mk V
500lb/250kg class bombs
As a starting lineup that hits key points without giving away the farm, you get a P-51, but not the D, a Bf109, not the K-4, a Spitfire, not the XVI. All functions in the game can be done, including something to spend perks on, but in all cases there are better, tempting things to get. Unit costs would probably have to be based on ENY rating or such so a Spitfire Mk I might cost $0.50 and a Spitfire Mk XVI might cost $4.00.
*A strong argument can be made that no perk units should be in the base FTP package, but rather that the temptation to buy something to spend the perk points the player already has earned would be a good way to make more money.
Ultimately, I have no way of knowing the economics of such a system as applied to HTC.
This will just result in a "bad review about a pay to win model". Those planes you listed are marginally inferior to things like the K4, XVI, or P51D. Either you give free players the whole package or make everyone pay for the whole package. Pay to win/pay to unlock superior planes will just result in negative reviews. Gamers in general HATE this business model. I sure as hell do.
-
I know it's just a quick example, but with this
A6M5
B5N2
Bf109G-6
C.202
C-47A
*F4U-1C (perk fighter)
G4M1
He111H
Hurricane Mk IId
La-5FN
LVT(A)2
*Mosquito Mk XVI (perk bomber)
P-51B
Panzer IV F
SBD-5
Sd.Kfz. 251
*Sherman VC (perk GV)
Spitfire Mk V
500lb/250kg class bombs
collection I would instantly go from paid to free account. ;)
-
This will just result in a "bad review about a pay to win model". Those planes you listed are marginally inferior to things like the K4, XVI, or P51D. Either you give free players the whole package or make everyone pay for the whole package. Pay to win/pay to unlock superior planes will just result in negative reviews. Gamers in general HATE this business model. I sure as hell do.
I dislike any FTP business model. I much prefer to just pay $14.99/month as it makes it a lot easier to evaluate the value I get for my money. I feel that all FTP systems fall into two categories, 1) nickel and dime way more out of you than you'd be paying with a monthly fee for the same service and hope you don't notice or 2) optimistically allow full access other than some cosmetic frills and make not nearly enough money to keep the company in business.
-
I dislike any FTP business model. I much prefer to just pay $14.99/month as it makes it a lot easier to evaluate the value I get for my money. I feel that all FTP systems fall into two categories, 1) nickel and dime way more out of you than you'd be paying with a monthly fee for the same service and hope you don't notice or 2) optimistically allow full access other than some cosmetic frills and make not nearly enough money to keep the company in business.
#1 is World of Tanks
#2 is League of Legends
Guess which one has millions of playing members? They released a stat a few months ago, over 1 million people were watching the live streams to the competitive tournaments that was being held. So I have no doubt they actually have a few million players instead of a few million accounts. #2 works when the game you have is great and people are willing to shell out money for cosmetic items because they feel the company deserves their money. #1 works when the game is mediocre and the developers pretty much force people to pay in order to win. Sure you can play WoT for free, but it's stupidly hard to do so. I remember having a Tier 8 tank that lost more money in a match by just firing its cannons than it can make since I had a free account. That's just blatant pay to win.
I know AH will never reach League of Legends status. So my opinion is that AH should turn into a pay once and get full access if HTC wants more players. $40 is a reasonable price at the current stage it's in. The graphics does NOT make it fit to be worth $60, the same as a grade AAA game title like Battlefield, Skyrim, Call of Duty or something similar.
-
So I'm guessing you didn't read any of my posts.
Then color me intrigued, do you want a small puny playerbase or do you want a large expansive playerbase? Because people here are crying for more players but then there's people who want AH to remain as small as possible so they can say "hi" to their buds. Make up your mind. If you want small, then let the game stay the way it is until it dies. If you want large, advertise, change the business model, do something to attract more players.
really? you think players are gonna pay to customize the nose art? or color of their airplane? cause sure as hell I will not. and the main reason is because the only time it looks cool is in a video. while in the game you rarely will notice anything other than the color of airplane if that.
semp
-
I know AH will never reach League of Legends status. So my opinion is that AH should turn into a pay once and get full access if HTC wants more players. $40 is a reasonable price at the current stage it's in. The graphics does NOT make it fit to be worth $60, the same as a grade AAA game title like Battlefield, Skyrim, Call of Duty or something similar.
Pay once, get full access is not a viable business strategy for a product with ongoing development costs and maintenance costs such as AH unless, possibly, it is massively popular such as Guild Wars.
-
:rolleyes:
#1 is World of Tanks
#2 is League of Legends
Guess which one has millions of playing members? They released a stat a few months ago, over 1 million people were watching the live streams to the competitive tournaments that was being held. So I have no doubt they actually have a few million players instead of a few million accounts. #2 works when the game you have is great and people are willing to shell out money for cosmetic items because they feel the company deserves their money. #1 works when the game is mediocre and the developers pretty much force people to pay in order to win. Sure you can play WoT for free, but it's stupidly hard to do so. I remember having a Tier 8 tank that lost more money in a match by just firing its cannons than it can make since I had a free account. That's just blatant pay to win.
I know AH will never reach League of Legends status. So my opinion is that AH should turn into a pay once and get full access if HTC wants more players. $40 is a reasonable price at the current stage it's in. The graphics does NOT make it fit to be worth $60, the same as a grade AAA game title like Battlefield, Skyrim, Call of Duty or something similar.
:rolleyes:
-
most will play with pos puters that wont be able to handle ah. my gf's laptop can play wot with about 15 fps at minimum settings while only gets 5 fps in ah with minimum settings.
btw I have a good fast computer and play ah with full frames and everything on except em and shadows at 2096. I only get about 35 fps and lots of stutters if playing with everything maxed in wot. and zoomed in, I cant keep track of action in heavy fights.
semp
Heh, I assure you that most players today play with computers that can easily handle WoT and AH. Haven't you ever read Steam user statistics? AH being heavy now doesn't mean anything especially if you use the weird raytracing slider which does nothing visible. With an updated engine it could theoretically run much faster than now and with higher image quality.
-
Heh, I assure you that most players today play with computers that can easily handle WoT and AH. Haven't you ever read Steam user statistics? AH being heavy now doesn't mean anything especially if you use the weird raytracing slider which does nothing visible. With an updated engine it could theoretically run much faster than now and with higher image quality.
which engine would you recommend and what would the advantages be over the "dated" engine we have?
semp
-
really? you think players are gonna pay to customize the nose art? or color of their airplane? cause sure as hell I will not. and the main reason is because the only time it looks cool is in a video. while in the game you rarely will notice anything other than the color of airplane if that.
semp
Yep, go take a look at almost every F2P game out there. You might not spend, but a lot will if they like the game and are willing to pay money to support a free game and stand out from the free players.
Pay once, get full access is not a viable business strategy for a product with ongoing development costs and maintenance costs such as AH unless, possibly, it is massively popular such as Guild Wars.
Rise of Flight isn't exactly a popular game either, it's still getting updates. I bought the Iron Cross Edition and it's more than enough to keep me entertained ($30).
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:aok
-
which engine would you recommend and what would the advantages be over the "dated" engine we have?
semp
Just look at any of the new titles that came out within the last 5 years. They're all miles ahead graphics engine wise.
-
Rise of Flight isn't exactly a popular game either, it's still getting updates. I bought the Iron Cross Edition and it's more than enough to keep me entertained ($30).
Rise of Flight also doesn't match your description of pay once, get full access, nor does it have significant ongoing maintenance costs.
1) It is not pay once. It is pay for the base game, pay for additional airplanes as they are released.
2) It is not an MMO and hence does not have the ongoing costs of server maintenance and internet traffic.
3) As a single player game you would continue to enjoy your copy even if the production/publisher went away. If HTC goes under AH is gone. Sure, you can play on your FE, but the fun aspect of the game is gone.
Just look at any of the new titles that came out within the last 5 years. They're all miles ahead graphics engine wise.
You're aware that most engines won't be suitable due to their short view distance that that using another company's engine is expensive, yes?
-
Just look at any of the new titles that came out within the last 5 years. They're all miles ahead graphics engine wise.
dude i can look at boxes and boxes of pron and they all have some really nice pictures. but that's not what i am asking. I am asking you to enlighten me and please point out which graphic's engine would give us better results. as if I recall correctly you got burned the last time you brought this up.
semp
-
Yep, go take a look at almost every F2P game out there. You might not spend, but a lot will if they like the game and are willing to pay money to support a free game and stand out from the free players.
ok I am asking you the same question as before. what exactly would you spend extra money to in ah? do you think people would spend money to get their airplane to look a certain color or most wont give a crap as long as they can fly for free?
semp
-
my computer is not that old maybe 5 years old at the most and I still can't run AH full blast and WOT I have to run at minimum graphic settings to even get close to 20fps oh and the slider makes your plane look shiny not in the hangar though but get it out on the runway and if you have a bare metal skin on it you can see reflections in it
Heh, I assure you that most players today play with computers that can easily handle WoT and AH. Haven't you ever read Steam user statistics? AH being heavy now doesn't mean anything especially if you use the weird raytracing slider which does nothing visible. With an updated engine it could theoretically run much faster than now and with higher image quality.
-
ok I am asking you the same question as before. what exactly would you spend extra money to in ah? do you think people would spend money to get their airplane to look a certain color or most wont give a crap as long as they can fly for free?
semp
Yep.
-
A6M5
B5N2
Bf109G-6
C.202
C-47A
*F4U-1C (perk fighter)
G4M1
He111H
Hurricane Mk IId
La-5FN
LVT(A)2
*Mosquito Mk XVI (perk bomber)
P-51B
Panzer IV F
SBD-5
Sd.Kfz. 251
*Sherman VC (perk GV)
Spitfire Mk V
500lb/250kg class bombs
I think that list would be a bit more than I'd give away to free to play type players. I see it as 4 categories, FREE, $5, $10, and $14.95 a month Your log in name is tied to which ever group your paid up for that month.
Free group gets a couple of early fighters, a couple early attack, a light bomber and a heavy, and a couple GVs. NO PERK STUFF.
$5 group gets the free group with a few more newer fighters and bombers and GVs. Maybe about a third of the available set we have now.
$10 group gets closer to half the set we have now,
$14.95 groups gets everything, plus perked equipment as well. ONLY this group gets the perked rides.
As Lusche said, he'd switch to free play if the list was what was posted above by Karnak. Maybe a tighter list he wouldn't, but even so I'm sure some would be happy running with the lower tier, but I'm thinking they would get more paying customers out of the free plan than they would lose. On top of that many of those "he-men" that switch most likely wouldn't stay on that tier as long as they think.
I know AH will never reach League of Legends status. So my opinion is that AH should turn into a pay once and get full access if HTC wants more players. $40 is a reasonable price at the current stage it's in. The graphics does NOT make it fit to be worth $60, the same as a grade AAA game title like Battlefield, Skyrim, Call of Duty or something similar.
That would be a stupid business plan :rolleyes: Look at it this way, HTC should be running this like a drug dealer. Give them enough "free" candy until they are hooked and then make them pay for it! Not the other way around, "Give my $1000 this one time and I'll supply you with your drug for ever!" I don't think so.
-
That would be a stupid business plan :rolleyes: Look at it this way, HTC should be running this like a drug dealer. Give them enough "free" candy until they are hooked and then make them pay for it! Not the other way around, "Give my $1000 this one time and I'll supply you with your drug for ever!" I don't think so.
Welp, guess all those games on Steam for $5, $10, $15, $20, $30, $40, $50, $60 are bad business.
-
Welp, guess all those games on Steam for $5, $10, $15, $20, $30, $40, $50, $60 are bad business.
What part of ongoing development costs and server maintenance do you don't understand?
Show me all the games on steam that match that, but have a one time purchase of $5-60.
-
What part of ongoing development costs and server maintenance do you don't understand?
Show me all the games on steam that match that, but have a one time purchase of $5-60.
Counterstrike CS:GO
Chivalry Medieval Warfare
Two games from my library of 20 something games. Now I'm not going to spend hours searching for a full list of games out of the thousands listed on Steam. Oh, and you know why devs drop support of a game they have? Because it's old, it's outdated, or they want to progress whatever storyline it has through a new game. HTC doesn't have to do that, they can just focus on AH alone. And if they want an extra source of money, then in addition to the one time fee, add in microtransactions for cosmetics reason only, and expand upon it every month with new additions.
But whatever, the same argument happens in every single thread related to graphics. The die hard 2004 PC crowd is too stubborn to accept that AH needs a visual update or are happy with the tiny playerbase that exists compared to other games. I want to see AH grow, apparently, most of you don't. So whatever, I'm done with this thread, maybe when the next "A graphic update is required" pops up, you can just copy and paste every single post in here and every single post from similar threads.
-
Counterstrike CS:GO
Chivalry Medieval Warfare
Two games from my library of 20 something games. Now I'm not going to spend hours searching for a full list of games out of the thousands listed on Steam. Oh, and you know why devs drop support of a game they have? Because it's old, it's outdated, or they want to progress whatever storyline it has through a new game. HTC doesn't have to do that, they can just focus on AH alone. And if they want an extra source of money, then in addition to the one time fee, add in microtransactions for cosmetics reason only, and expand upon it every month with new additions.
But whatever, the same argument happens in every single thread related to graphics. The die hard 2004 PC crowd is too stubborn to accept that AH needs a visual update or are happy with the tiny playerbase that exists compared to other games. I want to see AH grow, apparently, most of you don't. So whatever, I'm done with this thread, maybe when the next "A graphic update is required" pops up, you can just copy and paste every single post in here and every single post from similar threads.
Thank God, I was getting tired of your posts. Go play your other games. :rock
-
Welp, guess all those games on Steam for $5, $10, $15, $20, $30, $40, $50, $60 are bad business.
You really don't the difference between a small business that focuses on a certain product vs large corporation that outs out multiple products? Has nothing to do with "the stubborn 2004 graphics crowd" whatever that is. Put a window in your stomach.
-
Nvm. :salute :cheers:
-
Perhaps offer up the B-26 as a F2P perk bomber, since it offers more utility in your typical MA setting, and would still be vastly improved.
-
Haven't delved into all this thread yet, but to address the OP first, top end graphics are not what this game ever was or should be about unless it can be done without any sacrifice of the MMO aspect and ALL other shortcomings have been addressed.
Building the plane set is necessary, but it is long past the point that it should remain a top priority.
What this game needs is a better strategic aspect and more immersion in the Combat pilot experience. Many ideas that have been debated in the wishlist are worthy additions of the game, except in the eyes of the "Reasonable Proposal" weenies who think they have all the answers about what makes this game appealing.
MOST players new to air combat games arrive completely uneducated in air combat and did so expecting to find something that resembles what they see in the media. Instant disappointment. Not a significant disappointment, but that's purely a matter of opinion. Some have the perseverance to stick it out and see what's deeper.
What part of ongoing development costs and server maintenance do you don't understand?
Show me all the games on steam that match that, but have a one time purchase of $5-60.
Didn't get the back story on this comment, but when I play this game, I'm not going to play for free. I pay because 15 bucks is not a lot of money and I want unrestricted access should there ever be a free aspect in the game.
As for the ridiculous arguments about how "out of control" the free players will be, Fugitima has been griping about paying customers for years. Net result is NOTHING CHANGES. Except I have more targets to shoot at and some percentage of those non-paying customers will not endure the restrictions of a free aspect.
They will break in and pay for the game exactly like millions who play the "free" games just to find out they have to buy their pink tu-tus to be a part of Fugi's Pink Ladies Clan.
For the record, I also don't agree with the one time purchase and pay for upgrades model. Just like perks, it benefits a privileged portion of the player base who are no more important or valuable to the community than the rest of the population. And if I were to speculate, those who can afford extras are already the more arrogant, loud mouthed and demanding group. Let Fugi get a load of that demographic and he'll really have something to complain about.
A player base that is on equal ground is going to be a happier in the long run.
-
my computer is not that old maybe 5 years old at the most and I still can't run AH full blast and WOT I have to run at minimum graphic settings to even get close to 20fps oh and the slider makes your plane look shiny not in the hangar though but get it out on the runway and if you have a bare metal skin on it you can see reflections in it
Not that old? 5 years old computer is very old for gaming use especially if you bought a cheap model 5 years ago and no hardware has been updated in those 5 years. The 2013 Steam hardware survey shows that over 60% of the playerbase have a modern DX11 capable GPU + OS, other most common components in systems: Win7 64bit, 8Gigs of ram.
-
Not that old? 5 years old computer is very old for gaming use especially if you bought a cheap model 5 years ago and no hardware has been updated in those 5 years. The 2013 Steam hardware survey shows that over 60% of the playerbase have a modern DX11 capable GPU + OS, other most common components in systems: Win7 64bit, 8Gigs of ram.
so you want to kick out 40% of the players?
semp
-
so you want to kick out 40% of the players?
semp
Survey was of Steam _users_ so obviously also the rest of the hardware is supported. That's the thing - usually game engines are built to be backwards compatible. People with only dx9 capability will just miss dx10,11 features. AH2 runs great on most DX10 era cards too.
Oh and by the way, if things would change and AH would get a rush of 100 000 new subscribers - it can afford to kick out the marginal users who have an ancient computer.
-
Survey was of Steam _users_ so obviously also the rest of the hardware is supported. That's the thing - usually game engines are built to be backwards compatible. People with only dx9 capability will just miss dx10,11 features. AH2 runs great on most DX10 era cards too.
Oh and by the way, if things would change and AH would get a rush of 100 000 new subscribers - it can afford to kick out the marginal users who have an ancient computer.
but how many of those 100k players are going to spend a couple of months learning to play the game? actually how many of those would want to play with a keyboard and mouse only? so we supposed to dumb down the game for that?
why dont you reallize that ah is different that those stick it to those who pay games, i mean free to be a lemming games.
last couple of times that you argue this non-sense you got burned bad but I guess you are going for a record.
semp
semp
-
but how many of those 100k players are going to spend a couple of months learning to play the game? actually how many of those would want to play with a keyboard and mouse only? so we supposed to dumb down the game for that?
why dont you reallize that ah is different that those stick it to those who pay games, i mean free to be a lemming games.
last couple of times that you argue this non-sense you got burned bad but I guess you are going for a record.
That's why the relaxed realism f2p arena was suggested. So noobs would have an easymode free practice place and when they 'graduate' they could subscribe to play with the big boys in the cool hard mode arenas. In fact this model is what WT uses and they have 2M+ user base now versus AH2, what, 2k?
Show me the places "I got burned bad" please, I have no recollection of such things.
-
even when my PC was new it couldn't handle AH maxed out and I bought a top of the line Radeon vid card with it
-
even when my PC was new it couldn't handle AH maxed out and I bought a top of the line Radeon vid card with it
Was your hardware really new or did you buy a branded computer? They typically contain so old hardware that you can't find them anymore anywhere else except the OEMs huge stockpiles.
Also don't be fooled by the environment updates tab in advanced settings. It's an extremely resource expensive function which brings little to no real world benefits. Basically it's like complaining your boat engine can't cut it after throwing in the anchor. :)
-
That's why the relaxed realism f2p arena was suggested. So noobs would have an easymode free practice place and when they 'graduate' they could subscribe to play with the big boys in the cool hard mode arenas. In fact this model is what WT uses and they have 2M+ user base now versus AH2, what, 2k?
Show me the places "I got burned bad" please, I have no recollection of such things.
The assumption being that they will graduate to the full arena without some real incentive? And how do you mean easy mode? Arbitrary damage values, and performance figures?
-
The assumption being that they will graduate to the full arena without some real incentive? And how do you mean easy mode? Arbitrary damage values, and performance figures?
Well Warbirds had a free RR arena. I got bored to it pretty fast and subscribed to the main arena. So I'm talking also from experience there.
-
Well Warbirds had a free RR arena. I got bored to it pretty fast and subscribed to the main arena. So I'm talking also from experience there.
The fact that you purchased a joystick, and stuck around in AH for YEARS automatically means your personal experience irrelevant. You are not representative of the average gamer; if you were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
-
The fact that you purchased a joystick, and stuck around in AH for YEARS automatically means your personal experience irrelevant. You are not representative of the average gamer; if you were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
No? My first contact to flight sims on PC was warbirds. OFFLINE.
I got the game somehow, perhaps from some cd-rom because I had an expensive dialup connection those days. I thought 'this looks fun' and noticed you need a joystick to play it. So I went and bought one.
Had there not been a free WB offline mode to play with bots I would never ever have subscribed online with the dialup costs I had. The free chance to TRY got me hooked. I don't believe other people can be that much different. The success of the f2p megagames are supporting this theory too.
-
<snip> The free chance to TRY got me hooked. <snip>
Perhaps having the lowest populated Training arena and Dueling arenas be open to non-subscribers? The 2 week trial would be to all main arenas.
That way, the TA gets some more action in it. Then the DA gets more victims.. ah new recruits to try their ACM in :angel: .
But seriously, I wouldn't mind this. Would anyone else?
Tinkles
<<S>>
-
Perhaps having the lowest populated Training arena and Dueling arenas be open to non-subscribers? The 2 week trial would be to all main arenas.
That way, the TA gets some more action in it. Then the DA gets more victims.. ah new recruits to try their ACM in :angel: .
But seriously, I wouldn't mind this. Would anyone else?
Tinkles
<<S>>
I think one of the biggest challenges is how to get the new players survive long enough to learn the game. On their 2 week trial on MA they get seal clubbed to submission. Heck even I get seal clubbed nowadays that I play so little, despite having 10+ years of experience.
-
In fact this model is what WT uses and they have 2M+ user base now versus AH2, what, 2k?
"Free and playable with a mouse"
"Not free and pretty much requiring a joystick"
Important part bolded. There's a pretty extreme divide between those two. If the graphics difference were the other way around, I seriously doubt that the numbers would be that dissimilar to how they are now.
Wiley.
-
Survey was of Steam _users_ so obviously also the rest of the hardware is supported. That's the thing - usually game engines are built to be backwards compatible. People with only dx9 capability will just miss dx10,11 features. AH2 runs great on most DX10 era cards too.
Oh and by the way, if things would change and AH would get a rush of 100 000 new subscribers - it can afford to kick out the marginal users who have an ancient computer.
100,000 plane arenas...piece of cake.
-
If AHII went free-to-play (insert B horror flick scream/guffaws/string of curse words here) it would most definitely present a challenge or two. However, if it had the option of subscription or FTP then perhaps it would bring in players and retain the devoted. Subscribed players would play the game as usual, paying the monthly subscription where FTP players, would get to play with some reduced options without paying for perks. I'm not sure how much coding would be involved but .....
FTPers get no perks unless bought. More planes are perked, overall. Subscribed players receive a monthly stipend of perks (yes, I've poo-pooed this in other threads but this would be following the FTP formula). This would indeed require more perked planes, ordinance options and such, overall, because, as it is, there's way too much fun to be had without spending perks, as it is. Let's say, for arguments sake, that only EW and WWI planes are accessible without perks. Taking control of fleets may become perked.
Geez, the more I type this up the more nauseous I get. :( Forget it. FTP and AHII go together like liver and ice cream.
-
That's why the relaxed realism f2p arena was suggested. So noobs would have an easymode free practice place and when they 'graduate' they could subscribe to play with the big boys in the cool hard mode arenas.
One of the things Air Warrior got right was the newbie arena. It gave new players an arena to get acclimated to the game and game play before venturing off to the dog eat dog world of the main arenas without fear of being clubbed like a baby seal. To keep players from setting up home in the newbie arena, there was a score cap in place. Once a player reached 10,000 points, they could no longer take up an armed plane and to continue being able to fight, had to move on to the main arenas.
The assumption being that they will graduate to the full arena without some real incentive? And how do you mean easy mode? Arbitrary damage values, and performance figures?
For the average gamer, progression has shown to be sufficient enough of an incentive in MMO related games. Most will, if the game had appealed to them, move on to the main arenas as that's the logical progression. You can also set forced incentives, such as only allowing them to fly for a certain period of time in the 'newbie arena' (like how the current 2 week trial is set up) or set a rank or score and once those limits have been reached, the player is then forced to move onto the main arenas.
ack-ack
-
The fact that you purchased a joystick, and stuck around in AH for YEARS automatically means your personal experience irrelevant. You are not representative of the average gamer; if you were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
You're wrong.. His experience is relevant.. Its not so different from my own.. I got hooked on a 'free' portion of WW2 air combat..
-
For the average gamer, progression has shown to be sufficient enough of an incentive in MMO related games. Most will, if the game had appealed to them, move on to the main arenas as that's the logical progression. You can also set forced incentives, such as only allowing them to fly for a certain period of time in the 'newbie arena' (like how the current 2 week trial is set up) or set a rank or score and once those limits have been reached, the player is then forced to move onto the main arenas.
ack-ack
This. If we make a noob arena with a limited plane set, I could see people settling for being best in the noob arena. Give them access to the MA's as well, with their still limited plane set, so they don't just get dumped in with the vets with no transition.
Although I think a duration based limit would be more effective than a point based system. Give them time to learn how to fly, and get a joystick.
-
This. If we make a noob arena with a limited plane set, I could see people settling for being best in the noob arena. Give them access to the MA's as well, with their still limited plane set, so they don't just get dumped in with the vets with no transition.
Giving new players a limited planet set in both the 'new player' arena and in the mains isn't a good idea as that's actually penalizing the player for being new.
Although I think a duration based limit would be more effective than a point based system. Give them time to learn how to fly, and get a joystick.
Depends on the time limit, I don't think 2 weeks, like our current free trial, is sufficient enough to get the player through the learning curve before throwing them to the sharks.
ack-ack
-
One of the things Air Warrior got right was the newbie arena. It gave new players an arena to get acclimated to the game and game play before venturing off to the dog eat dog world of the main arenas without fear of being clubbed like a baby seal. To keep players from setting up home in the newbie arena, there was a score cap in place. Once a player reached 10,000 points, they could no longer take up an armed plane and to continue being able to fight, had to move on to the main arenas.
Agreed. Probably the score cap was too high, but the system generally worked.
How could it hurt to try it?
- oldman
-
One of the things Air Warrior got right was the newbie arena. It gave new players an arena to get acclimated to the game and game play before venturing off to the dog eat dog world of the main arenas without fear of being clubbed like a baby seal. To keep players from setting up home in the newbie arena, there was a score cap in place. Once a player reached 10,000 points, they could no longer take up an armed plane and to continue being able to fight, had to move on to the main arenas.
For the average gamer, progression has shown to be sufficient enough of an incentive in MMO related games. Most will, if the game had appealed to them, move on to the main arenas as that's the logical progression. You can also set forced incentives, such as only allowing them to fly for a certain period of time in the 'newbie arena' (like how the current 2 week trial is set up) or set a rank or score and once those limits have been reached, the player is then forced to move onto the main arenas.
ack-ack
RR had a score cap? forcing a player to FR? Really? I had moved to FR with AWIII so may be missed this.........
I do remember RR always having the greater population.......
This has something to do with better graphics?
-
RR had a score cap? forcing a player to FR? Really? I had moved to FR with AWIII so may be missed this.........
I do remember RR always having the greater population.......
This has something to do with better graphics?
No, it wasn't a 'score cap' in RR forcing to FR. There was a new player arena. A 'kiddie pool.' If I recall correctly.
Reach a certain amount of kills (or something like that) and you were given rubber bullets in the new guy
sandbox, encouraging you to play elsewhere.
-
RR had a score cap? forcing a player to FR? Really? I had moved to FR with AWIII so may be missed this.........
I do remember RR always having the greater population.......
This has something to do with better graphics?
The newbie arenas (one for RR and another for FR) were seperate from the main RR and FR arenas. RR's greater population was because it was easier to fly because the lack of blackouts and spins.
ack-ack
-
The newbie arenas (one for RR and another for FR) were seperate from the main RR and FR arenas. RR's greater population was because it was easier to fly because the lack of blackouts and spins.
It's twoo, it's twoo.
- oldman (observing Ack-Ack's segue into the age-old feud between FR and RR)
-
I like this kiddie pool idea. I've always hated the way how the game perks advanced players so that they get even easyer kills. Sure it's nice for the no lifer who spends 200 hours a month honing his skills - but it creates a huge barrier to the noobs who would actually need all the help they can. That's why I was even suggesting a reverse perk system, meaning that the most advanced players would actually get a limited planeset and would need to take more challenging planes when they reach the high ranks.
A skilled player can kill a noob in Tempest using a C202. At least for me that would be far more rewarding than using the tempest to kill a 1 week noob flopping around in a non-perkie.
It would be cool IMO that seeing an early war bird in MA would incite fear to people as it most likely was a pro flyer (or someone wanting to look like one).
-
I like this kiddie pool idea. I've always hated the way how the game perks advanced players so that they get even easyer kills. Sure it's nice for the no lifer who spends 200 hours a month honing his skills - but it creates a huge barrier to the noobs who would actually need all the help they can. That's why I was even suggesting a reverse perk system, meaning that the most advanced players would actually get a limited planeset and would need to take more challenging planes when they reach the high ranks.
A skilled player can kill a noob in Tempest using a C202. At least for me that would be far more rewarding than using the tempest to kill a 1 week noob flopping around in a non-perkie.
It would be cool IMO that seeing an early war bird in MA would incite fear to people as it most likely was a pro flyer (or someone wanting to look like one).
anybody can kill anybody in any plane.
semp
-
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I cant get my Goon or Storch kill! :huh :huh :mad: :mad: :headscratch: :headscratch: :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
-
anybody can kill anybody in any plane.
semp
:rofl
-
I've always hated the way how the game perks advanced players so that they get even easyer kills. Sure it's nice for the no lifer who spends 200 hours a month honing his skills - but it creates a huge barrier to the noobs who would actually need all the help they can. That's why I was even suggesting a reverse perk system, meaning that the most advanced players would actually get a limited planeset and would need to take more challenging planes when they reach the high ranks.
A skilled player can kill a noob in Tempest using a C202. At least for me that would be far more rewarding than using the tempest to kill a 1 week noob flopping around in a non-perkie.
How many tempests do you see in the MA?
The only perked fighter I meet on regular basis is the Chog, when there is a significant carrier action in the area. There is the occasional 262 that I hate, so every time I see one I up another 262 to kill it, often encouraging squadies to join me in their 262s to gang the guy - fight fire with fire. No 262s are allowed when the ~loose deuce~ are around.
Most vets in this game tend to fly mid war planes. Then, you have the few (not those "few") that stick to P51D and 109K because they are some historical squadron or just luftwinees :p. Then there are very rare few that still fly La7, spit16 even though they are not in a plane dedicated squadron.
It is true that noobs do not fly perked rides at all, but it is almost true for vets as well. The main effect of the perk tag is to drastically reduce the type population in the arena. Example: perk the La7. It will not be available to noobs and if you meet one, it is likely to be a vet - but it will also be a much rarer bird over all. I am sure it will make the life of the noobs in Spit16s and P51D alot easier. Not all noobs are in La7s.
-
How many tempests do you see in the MA?
The only perked fighter I meet on regular basis is the Chog, when there is a significant carrier action in the area. There is the occasional 262 that I hate, so every time I see one I up another 262 to kill it, often encouraging squadies to join me in their 262s to gang the guy - fight fire with fire. No 262s are allowed when the ~loose deuce~ are around.
Most vets in this game tend to fly mid war planes. Then, you have the few (not those "few") that stick to P51D and 109K because they are some historical squadron or just luftwinees :p. Then there are very rare few that still fly La7, spit16 even though they are not in a plane dedicated squadron.
It is true that noobs do not fly perked rides at all, but it is almost true for vets as well. The main effect of the perk tag is to drastically reduce the type population in the arena. Example: perk the La7. It will not be available to noobs and if you meet one, it is likely to be a vet - but it will also be a much rarer bird over all. I am sure it will make the life of the noobs in Spit16s and P51D alot easier. Not all noobs are in La7s.
Yeah but isn't it backwards to you that the noobs who actually would need the help of a perk plane do not get to fly them and vets who have 10 000 perk points are too ashamed to use them?
-
It's twoo, it's twoo.
- oldman (observing Ack-Ack's segue into the age-old feud between FR and RR)
Alas Korea had only one arena and it was RR. I campaigned for a second Korean arena that was FR.
Unfortunately, Korea RR was changed to FR and all the dedicated Korea arena players got miffed.
-
The vast majority of the people in the game look for the path of least resistance. Whether one thinks it's a good idea or a bad idea, I'd feel pretty confident in saying implementing an RR arena would pull the majority of the players into it leaving the FR arena emptier.
Yeah but isn't it backwards to you that the noobs who actually would need the help of a perk plane do not get to fly them and vets who have 10 000 perk points are too ashamed to use them?
While I agree that newbs having less chance to use perk rides is an unfortunate side effect, I don't think the intent of the perks for rides is to give vets an advantage exactly, it's to limit the use of the perk items period, regardless of skill level. It seems to work reasonably well IMO. It also gives the newbs a definable thing to work toward, which some seem to need.
Wiley.
-
The problem is that some old hands take a 2 weeks free flying tour and get perked birds and can kill anyone, how can you separate those players out ?
Yeah but isn't it backwards to you that the noobs who actually would need the help of a perk plane do not get to fly them and vets who have 10 000 perk points are too ashamed to use them?
-
How many tempests do you see in the MA?
The only perked fighter I meet on regular basis is the Chog, when there is a significant carrier action in the area. There is the occasional 262 that I hate, so every time I see one I up another 262 to kill it, often encouraging squadies to join me in their 262s to gang the guy - fight fire with fire. No 262s are allowed when the ~loose deuce~are around, except when Muppets are in 262's and send us flaming to the earth.
Most vets in this game tend to fly mid war planes. Then, you have the few (not those "few") that stick to P51D and 109K because they are some historical squadron or just luftwinees :p. Then there are very rare few that still fly La7, spit16 even though they are not in a plane dedicated squadron.
It is true that noobs do not fly perked rides at all, but it is almost true for vets as well. The main effect of the perk tag is to drastically reduce the type population in the arena. Example: perk the La7. It will not be available to noobs and if you meet one, it is likely to be a vet - but it will also be a much rarer bird over all. I am sure it will make the life of the noobs in Spit16s and P51D alot easier. Not all noobs are in La7s.
:D
-
Alas Korea had only one arena and it was RR. I campaigned for a second Korean arena that was FR.
Unfortunately, Korea RR was changed to FR and all the dedicated Korea arena players got miffed.
Actually while there wasn't a full time FR KW arena we did run a FR scenario in AW called Korea51. I was GL of an F-86 group. It was fun managing your turn rate vs your blackouts. I think that arena might have been switched to FR during the lead up to that event but I don't recall it staying that way. I could be wrong having not flown any RR anyway. It WAS a long time ago now and I'm increasingly ancient. :D
-
The problem is that some old hands take a 2 weeks free flying tour and get perked birds and can kill anyone, how can you separate those players out ?
If the old hands want to create a new account every 2 weeks then it's their problem. I don't think people are THAT stupid.
-
anybody can kill anybody in any plane.
semp
:rolleyes: This is true, but the odds of a noob player doing so one-on-one vs a moderately skilled multi-year vet of this game is next to nil. I am positive that is a source of frustration for new players, and very few have the patience to spend the years it takes to rise above horrid to mediocre.
Example: My son has been playing AH off an on for about three weeks now. He has been able to kill other fighters in bomber turrets or werbs but has had little success fighter on fighter. I have kept encouraging him and even flew cover for him on occasion.
Last night he got his first kill in a fighter (K4) vs. another fighter. The rejoicing was great. :banana: WOOWHO!!!
Five seconds later, he was clubbed down from behind.
By a Muppet.
This is not an indictment against said Muppet, who had no idea how long the kid's been playing and likely wouldn't have cared even if he did! Nor would I in a similar situation.....red guys are red guys (and they all must die!).
My son's virtual end brutally reinforced why one needs to keep an eye on their six, why SA is important, why target fixation ends up with a quick trip to the tower, yada yada yada. Besides, he was so happy to have his first tater hit/kill on another fighter he didn't even care! ;)
But I know his experience isn't particularly unique, and I feel it is a statement on why this game will likely never have a huge player base. Don't get me wrong....I think a "new player arena" is a good idea, and I highly support it's implementation....but let's not kid ourselves. Even if a new player spent six months in said arena, he/she would still be raw meat for very hungry wolves. At best, a new player arena will slightly reduce the learning curve....but only slightly.
-
:rolleyes: This is true, but the odds of a noob player doing so one-on-one vs a moderately skilled multi-year vet of this game is next to nil. I am positive that is a source of frustration for new players, and very few have the patience to spend the years it takes to rise above horrid to mediocre.
Example: My son has been playing AH off an on for about three weeks now. He has been able to kill other fighters in bomber turrets or werbs but has had little success fighter on fighter. I have kept encouraging him and even flew cover for him on occasion.
Last night he got his first kill in a fighter (K4) vs. another fighter. The rejoicing was great. :banana: WOOWHO!!!
Five seconds later, he was clubbed down from behind.
By a Muppet.
This is not an indictment against said Muppet, who had no idea how long the kid's been playing and likely wouldn't have cared even if he did! Nor would I in a similar situation.....red guys are red guys (and they all must die!).
My son's virtual end brutally reinforced why one needs to keep an eye on their six, why SA is important, why target fixation ends up with a quick trip to the tower, yada yada yada. Besides, he was so happy to have his first tater hit/kill on another fighter he didn't even care! ;)
But I know his experience isn't particularly unique, and I feel it is a statement on why this game will likely never have a huge player base. Don't get me wrong....I think a "new player arena" is a good idea, and I highly support it's implementation....but let's not kid ourselves. Even if a new player spent six months in said arena, he/she would still be raw meat for very hungry wolves. At best, a new player arena will slightly reduce the learning curve....but only slightly.
When I started flight sims I first practiced offline untill I could kill the WB bots at the hardest level. Then I moved to the free arena which to my surprise also contained relaxed realism (and felt lame after being used to the full realism offline). After I found out I can hold my own against real human players I subscribed to the main arena. Pretty soon I heard of this great new beta game by hitech and the rest is history as they say.
I just remember the shock of trying AH for the first time. The planes felt like lead pieces compared to WB, just waiting for a turn to bleed your E and send you to the ground :D
-
By a Muppet.
"How to pick a noob" is a sticky in their forums. Don't tell them I told you though!
:bolt:
-
"How to pick a noob" is a sticky in their forums. Don't tell them I told you though!
:bolt:
I assume you studied it well, Tri.
The (until now nameless) Heartless Slaughterer O' Noobs* was (according to my son) you.
:D
* "Heartless Slaughterer O' Noobs" is Copyright 2013 by Triton28, an AoM production. All rights reserved.
-
I assume you studied it well, Tri.
The (until now nameless) Heartless Slaughterer O' Noobs* was (according to my son) you.
:D
* "Heartless Slaughterer O' Noobs" is Copyright 2013 by Triton28, an AoM production. All rights reserved.
:uhoh
Umm... well... film or it didn't happen! :old:
Don't you dare post that film!
-
Actually while there wasn't a full time FR KW arena we did run a FR scenario in AW called Korea51. I was GL of an F-86 group. It was fun managing your turn rate vs your blackouts. I think that arena might have been switched to FR during the lead up to that event but I don't recall it staying that way. I could be wrong having not flown any RR anyway. It WAS a long time ago now and I'm increasingly ancient. :D
I promoted and helped design the Korean scenario. I skinned the B-17 as a B-29
and the 47 as a Lavochian if I recall. Shortly after that Korea RR went full-time FR.
There was wearing of sack-cloth and ashes by the regulars.
We're both increasingly ancient. ;)
-
I promoted and helped design the Korean scenario.
That was my last Air Warrior scenario.
-
:uhoh
Don't you dare post that film!
No worries and relax, m8t! All incriminating films are disposed of promptly once the required payme.....ahhhh......I mean....after the "voluntary" contributions have been received. :aok
(http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp-content/uploads/blackmail.jpg)
Check yer mail! ;)
-
No worries and relax, m8t! All incriminating films are disposed of promptly once the required payme.....ahhhh......I mean....after the "voluntary" contributions have been received. :aok
(http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp-content/uploads/blackmail.jpg)
Check yer mail! ;)
Well played.
The defense submits exhibit A:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349796.msg4625330.html#msg4625330 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349796.msg4625330.html#msg4625330)
Your honor, I was clearly looking out for the boy's cartoon well being when I helped convince his father to let him play. How would I, a humble noob myself, wish to prey upon a toon life I helped foster?
I am not a monster! :old:
-
Well played.
The defense submits exhibit A:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349796.msg4625330.html#msg4625330 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349796.msg4625330.html#msg4625330)
Your honor, I was clearly looking out for the boy's cartoon well being when I helped convince his father to let him play. How would I, a humble noob myself, wish to prey upon a toon life I helped foster?
I am not a monster! :old:
Ah yes....this is true. :aok
All files and recordings purged. :D
-
Playing in the MA should serve well as an object lesson for your kid that things aren't always fair. :)
It's a lesson I wish more of the grownups in this game had learned earlier.
Wiley.
-
That was my last Air Warrior scenario.
I remember and was honored to be a part of it. I remember referring to it on BigWeek as 'Sabres Over The Yalu' or some such.
I'd kinda like to see a screenshot of the 29 skin I designed for the 17. Alas, that was three pcs back and I never thought there
was need to keep old AW screenshots. You have a large number of screenshots on your scenario memories page but I was
heartbroken to not see any shots of the Korean scenario. Happen to have any tucked away in a file for me? :)
-
I remember and was honored to be a part of it. I remember referring to it on BigWeek as 'Sabres Over The Yalu' or some such.
I'd kinda like to see a screenshot of the 29 skin I designed for the 17. Alas, that was three pcs back and I never thought there
was need to keep old AW screenshots. You have a large number of screenshots on your scenario memories page but I was
heartbroken to not see any shots of the Korean scenario. Happen to have any tucked away in a file for me? :)
Unfortunately, no. I was assigned to tanks and didn't see any airplanes.
-
Unfortunately, no. I was assigned to tanks and didn't see any airplanes.
Well, no big deal. It was fun and for someone that sees so many things as 'just like it was yesterday' this seems so long ago to me now.
Must be the way time moves on the internet. :)
Brooke, :salute :cheers:
-
Arlo I still have all my AW films from K51--on floppy discs LOL! No shizzle!
-
Arlo I still have all my AW films from K51--on floppy discs LOL! No shizzle!
As a scenario K51 broke new ground in so many ways..........
Only problem I had with it was Nomads on my 6!
-
Playing in the MA should serve well as an object lesson for your kid that things aren't always fair. :)
It's a lesson I wish more of the grownups in this game had learned earlier.
Wiley.
Oh absolutely....that is one of the reasons why I let him play!
-
This is not an indictment against said Muppet, who had no idea how long the kid's been playing and likely wouldn't have cared even if he did! Nor would I in a similar situation.....red guys are red guys (and they all must die!).
Years ago I was hanging out between fields at about 13k when an La-5FN came by at about 10k. I dropped in on him and splattered him with my quad Hispanos, then climbed back to 13k. A bit later another La-5FN came in, same player, same result. And again. This wasn't a fight and my firepower was ending it so fast there was no learning going on. I have no idea why a brand new player had picked the La-5FN, but I figured it wasn't very nice for him to fly all that way only to die within 10 seconds of being engaged so I landed and went elsewhere.
In retrospect I probably should have stuck around and just limited myself to my .303s to give him some time to try things.
My point, however, is sometimes it is good to pay attention to who you're killing and if you find yourself repeatedly clubbing a baby seal, perhaps a change on your part is warranted.
-
Years ago I was hanging out between fields at about 13k when an La-5FN came by at about 10k. I dropped in on him and splattered him with my quad Hispanos, then climbed back to 13k. A bit later another La-5FN came in, same player, same result. And again. This wasn't a fight and my firepower was ending it so fast there was no learning going on. I have no idea why a brand new player had picked the La-5FN, but I figured it wasn't very nice for him to fly all that way only to die within 10 seconds of being engaged so I landed and went elsewhere.
In retrospect I probably should have stuck around and just limited myself to my .303s to give him some time to try things.
My point, however, is sometimes it is good to pay attention to who you're killing and if you find yourself repeatedly clubbing a baby seal, perhaps a change on your part is warranted.
Sometimes when I find these 'newbies' I get on their 6 and just stay with them. Some have surprised me, but most just auger into the ground forgetting that they are low :lol
But I agree, if you are the one getting kill after kill and the one you are killing is the same guy, a good chance that they are new or inexperienced in that plane or in general. In my opinion, that is where it falls to the more experienced player, to make the next move. Of giving them a chance, or smacking them down again.
Tinkles
<<S>>
-
Years ago some of you guys would have invited that newbie to the DA to help him instead of repeatedly smacking him down or enjoying watching him repeatedly auger.
-
Years ago some of you guys would have invited that newbie to the DA to help him instead of repeatedly smacking him down or enjoying watching him repeatedly auger.
:aok
Did this the other day in the DA (so no invite was required). I was flying low over furball lake in an A6m3 trolling to be gang-tarded (it's really a fun way to work on SA and reversals...try it some time...its even more fun in a P39!) when I spy a lone Spit 16 coming in hot and bothered at about 3K. He saw me and made a diving attack...Which I deftly dodged (yeah yeah, i know...no surprise in being i was in a zeke). I readied myself to see him go up and try pass number 2.
It didn't happen. Guy flat turns hard, blows all his e and comes around for a low speed turn fight. I was able to easily get on his six of course and proceeded to kill him in short order. :joystick:
Next thing I know here he comes again and lo and behold he does the same thing. So after killing him quickly I pm'ed him and yup...noobus Maximus. Seems someone back at the base told him the Spitteen is so "über" it can out turn and out fight anything low and slow....especially zekes. Jeez... :rolleyes:
I proceeded to work with him for about 30 minutes. Good kid. Told him to get some additional time with a trainer and to be careful of the advice of some...
-
Back onto the main topic of the OP, perhaps the reason for the dated graphics is simply because HTC lacks the development resources to rewrite the graphics engine? Just food for thought.
-
Back onto the main topic of the OP, perhaps the reason for the dated graphics is simply because HTC lacks the development resources to rewrite the graphics engine? Just food for thought.
This thread was about the graphics engine? :headscratch: Who knew!?! :D
Heh...sorry. On that topic...I suppose it's possible but I'm somehow doubting it.
-
Arlo I still have all my AW films from K51--on floppy discs LOL! No shizzle!
Wait ... that's right - there were indeed media formats prior to CD! ;)
(This is exactly what technology in the computer age does to our sense
of the passage of time.)
IF HT ever caves and models just the Mig and Sabre for a
Korean arena (which may prove more popular than the WWI arena) I
would like to see you revamp it for AHII.
Deal? :D
-
Wait ... that's right - there were indeed media formats prior to CD! ;)
(This is exactly what technology in the computer age does to our sense
of the passage of time.)
IF HT ever caves and models just the Mig and Sabre for a
Korean arena (which may prove more popular than the WWI arena) I
would like to see you revamp it for AHII.
Deal? :D
popular as in it will have 2 players instead of the horde of one?
semp
-
popular as in it will have 2 players instead of the horde of one?
semp
Popular as in both the Sabre and the Mig are sexy arse jets and a half dozen or so planes already modeled would work in a KW plane set.
It may not reach the steady 100 mark but I'd anticipate there would be a fair following.
Probably stands a better chance than the Spanisg Civil War (unless there's been more of an interest there since I used to promote it regular-like).
P.S. Put cats on the Essex like in that wishlist thread and model Panthers, while we're at it. :aok :D
-
Back onto the main topic of the OP, perhaps the reason for the dated graphics is simply because HTC lacks the development resources to rewrite the graphics engine? Just food for thought.
This is what I've been saying all along.