Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ntrudr on August 24, 2013, 12:24:09 PM
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An ENY of 18?, get a grip. It should be 10 at the highest. The plane does everything very well.
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Its the only plane in here that do a can climb at 3.5k hanging in the prop at 95mph, +1
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and it never bleeds any E. ridiculous.
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All of the above.
10 in my book
Even on the balance of short ammo clips, the ammo is incredibly effective.
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I can slow the Yak 9U down after I run up on someone's tail to shoot them. The best maneuver I have with the Yak3 is it seems to want to stick it's nose up other plane's exhaust pipes no matter what I do to stop it. That is one slick tiny airframe.
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Deperk the Spit14 and perk yak3 :rofl
you are all freaks :rofl
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How about no?
Its usage is not nearly high enough to justify a 10, nor does its K/D ratio stand out as extreme in comparison with those units above it in usage:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio |
| P-51D | 11629 | 8991 | 1.29 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6612 | 5829 | 1.13 |
| La-7 | 6403 | 4881 | 1.31 |
| F6F-5 | 5088 | 5310 | 0.96 |
| N1K2 | 4840 | 4555 | 1.06 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 5798 | 3436 | 1.69 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4468 | 3309 | 1.35 |
| F4u-1A | 4181 | 2939 | 1.42 |
| P-47M | 4411 | 2565 | 1.72 |
| F4U-1D | 3760 | 4664 | 0.81 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4163 | 2670 | 1.56 |
| A-20G | 3520 | 2622 | 1.34 |
| Yak-3 | 3436 | 2434 | 1.41 |
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Using your own data it has a better K/D ratio than most of the planes you list, the few that have a better K/D ratio are known to be "expert" planes.
I would like to have seen one more column, the ENY value.
How about no?
Its usage is not nearly high enough to justify a 10, nor does its K/D ratio stand out as extreme in comparison with those units above it in usage:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio |
| P-51D | 11629 | 8991 | 1.29 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6612 | 5829 | 1.13 |
| La-7 | 6403 | 4881 | 1.31 |
| F6F-5 | 5088 | 5310 | 0.96 |
| N1K2 | 4840 | 4555 | 1.06 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 5798 | 3436 | 1.69 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4468 | 3309 | 1.35 |
| F4u-1A | 4181 | 2939 | 1.42 |
| P-47M | 4411 | 2565 | 1.72 |
| F4U-1D | 3760 | 4664 | 0.81 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4163 | 2670 | 1.56 |
| A-20G | 3520 | 2622 | 1.34 |
| Yak-3 | 3436 | 2434 | 1.41 |
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It's K/D is higher than the Spit16 and P51. . .
eny 10 or 8, IMO.
+1
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It's K/D is higher than the Spit16 and P51. . .
eny 10 or 8, IMO.
+1
And its use is a fraction of either.
ENY 25.
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Detailed stats breakdown (true air K/D!) in a few days with the start of the new tour... ;)
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I would like to have seen one more column, the ENY value.
I'll add that when I can, but I am at work and don't have access to ENY values. My memory is not to be trusted like that.
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at 18 its acceptable because with only 120 rounds for a 20mm, you have to have near perfect aim. Sure its a beast in the air, the ammo supply not so much, what 5-6 seconds at post on continue fire?
Consider this, if it had Two 20mms with 120 rounds each, i'd argue it would be 5 eny.
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at 18 its acceptable because with only 120 rounds for a 20mm, you have to have near perfect aim. Sure its a beast in the air, the ammo supply not so much, what 5-6 seconds at post on continue fire?
Probably more like 10 or so. Not sure what the rate of fire is, but I doubt it is twice, or more than twice, the Hispano's. 120 rounds for a Hispano MK II is 12 seconds.
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Probably more like 10 or so. Not sure what the rate of fire is, but I doubt it is twice, or more than twice, the Hispano's. 120 rounds for a Hispano MK II is 12 seconds.
I was only guessing my apologies, but I took up a Yak3 the other night and scored 4 proxies and two kills, while true my aim is a little off - I had a couple of good second bursts into planes, and next thing I know my ammo was dry.
If you consider the Spitfire 9 with twin hispanos or even the Mk 8, I think the Yak is just fine.
I don't see many "Aces" scoring 5 kills and landing, I actually have an easier time landing more kills in a 109K since it takes only one round to down an aircraft.
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The Spit VIII and IX are very much deadlier, firepowerwise. No question.
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The Spit VIII and IX are very much deadlier, firepowerwise. No question.
Of course, I still think the Spit 8/9 are better as they are pure dogfighters, Yak (especially russian planes) are pure energy fighters. I'm willing to bet once the shock of the Yak-3 wears off that K/D drops. I'd like to see a graph 5 months from now to get an accurate picture.
In my opinion the Yak3 is easier to fly then the La7, which is ironic because I never learned or could fly an La7 and its far superior in every way.
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Out to 250 yards the ShVAK 20mm shoots fast and very flat with little dispersion. If you are able to hit what you aim at with it.
Basically all rounds are 96g.
700-800 rpm
HEI 770 m\sec 2.8g HE + 3.3g incendiary, TNT as explosive.
HEI-T 770 m\sec 2.8g HE + 3.3g incendiary, tracer fill, TNT as explosive.
API 750 m\sec solid steel core + incendiary
API-T 750 m\sec solid steel core + incendiary, tracer element
MG151\20
Average round weight is 117g
700-720 m\sec
600-750 rpm
HE up to 5g nitropenta some rounds semi AP.
M-Gesch 18g HA41 (hexogen aluminium), MK108 has 85g HA41.
Tracer as a filled round specifically with tracer element.
HS.404
600-850 rpm dependant on version.
840-880 m\sec dependant on version and barrel length.
HE and HEI: 130 g, filler 6 to 11 g
AP-T: 168 g
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Table with ENY added:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio | ENY |
| P-51D | 11629 | 8991 | 1.29 | 5 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6612 | 5829 | 1.13 | 5 |
| La-7 | 6403 | 4881 | 1.31 | 5 |
| F6F-5 | 5088 | 5310 | 0.96 | 12 |
| N1K2 | 4840 | 4555 | 1.06 | 8 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 5798 | 3436 | 1.69 | 12 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4468 | 3309 | 1.35 | 15 |
| F4u-1A | 4181 | 2939 | 1.42 | 12 |
| P-47M | 4411 | 2565 | 1.72 | 8 |
| F4U-1D | 3760 | 4664 | 0.81 | 9 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4163 | 2670 | 1.56 | 20 |
| A-20G | 3520 | 2622 | 1.34 | 15 |
| Yak-3 | 3436 | 2434 | 1.41 | 18 |
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Steaming pile of horse poop.
I haven't run across one yet that I couldn't equal or beat with the La5FN. Short clip and single cannon, does a lot of things well but not much of anything significantly better than a lot of other planes with similar eny. Ki84 is a perfect example.
If the Yak 3 eny needs to be reduced...... La7 would have to be perked like a Tempest, and Dora would maybe be perked too.
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Hmmm.... yeah, the Yak 3 is a easy mode plane to fly (does it all very well and is very forgiving),but really folks, it carries no ord, has rather short legs, has weak guns, has a very low ammo load. So unless the you're in a 1v1 dog fight the Yak-3 really is a 1 trick pony.
The Yak-3 is the Micheal Flatley of Aces High. It can dance very well but it can't bomb, hunt bombers, attack ground targets, go very far, or even hit other fighters very hard, but it can dance up a storm then change costume and put on different music and look pretty good doing the same exact dance moves again. Point being, it is the same dance each and every time out: it is a fighter killer and that is about it.
Cue the music!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGQPkFUE0A
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I fear this is just another BnZers whine thread.
The yak-3 is easily defeated in a turn fight by most planes it is just the P51, 190D crowd where it is most annoying being nearly as quick and way more versatile. Get a grip or just run faster at the first sight of a yak pilot that knows what he is doing.
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Yak3 is fast enough to catch many early-mid 1944 planes, together with its generous E-keeping and cobra-like climb its a hard catch if you are an aware Yak cartoon pilot.
You can get typically 2 kills and then need a tour-de-replenish.
Usage for the A-series has dropped, A8 is lowered to 20, its overused time is now over since the D9 with its upgraded radiator protection now in the game, making its older brothers antique against fighters compared.
PlaneName Kills Deaths Kill/Death Ratio
Fw 190A-5 1781 1274 1.40
Fw 190A-8 3497 3438 1.02
Fw 190D-9 6074 3579 1.70
Fw 190F-8 825 918 0.90
I guess each of us should get a grip, and don't fly early 1944 birds, or hope the other guy is a inexperienced pilot (which is often the case when meeting a low-eny plane)
I do not know about you guys, but I think the Late War Arena should be a place for 1944-1945 planes, not only the best of the best, lowering ENY for the better ones is one way, and the YAK is among them.
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Luftwaffe pilots were ordered to RTB at the mere sight of the yak-3 and whilst I agree late war is for the hot rods if you choose to fly high eny rides you can't sit here and say its' over modelled or perk it!
go to mid war and fly your 190 A8. Maybe that will suit you better.
ENY is also judged on the impact that plane has on gameplay. With minimal ammo how damaging is one fighter with 120 cannon rounds?
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Luftwaffe pilots were ordered to RTB at the mere sight of the yak-3 and whilst I agree late war is for the hot rods if you choose to fly high eny rides you can't sit here and say its' over modelled or perk it!
Go to mid war and fly your 190 A8. Maybe that will suit you better.
ENY is also judged on the impact that plane has on gameplay. With minimal ammo how damaging is one fighter with 120 cannon rounds?
1 : AFAK The A8 is not available in mid-war,so no, I won't !!!
The A8 was a late-war plane that entered service with JG's just a month or two before Normandy landings.
2 : I do not currently fly the A8 so you are shooting blanks again.
You can and probably do as I do, fly more challenging plane if you want to.
3 : I have never claimed that the yak3 is over-modelled, nor should it be perked, only that it should have a lower ENY to reflect its performance (plane performance, not its pilot).
Get the facts right.
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Its usage doesn't support that, save.
It is natural, given the nature of the MA, to see the most capable version of an airframe dominate the usage of that airframe. It is true of A6Ms, Bf109s, Bf110s, Hurricanes, P-47s, P-51s and Spitfires. The Fw190A-8 was an anomaly produced by its high ENY rating and when that changed the anomaly receded. The F4U-1A is the best free version for air-to-air and the F4U-1D is the best free version for air-to-mud and that prevents a single F4U from dominating F4U airframe use. The P-38J seems to be the chosen mount for many of the most fanatical P-38 fans for reasons not associated with ENY or, I suspect, the game and that distorts those numbers.
Keep in mind that my ride is also pretty much just screwed against a non-incompetent in a Yak-3 as well, and I don't have a newer version to switch to. I'll grant you I rarely play nowadays so it doesn't actually affect me that much.
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Usage does not determine ENY, aircraft effectiveness does.
Yak3
High speed
Turns Well at speed
Retains E incredibly well
Dives Well
Accelerates quickly
Climbs well
Guns have very good ballistics
Guns are of high power
Low compression effect
High MA survivability
Exceptional visability
Dolby Yak3 Tour 162 - 105 for 20
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Usage does not determine ENY, aircraft effectiveness does.
Yak3
High speed
Turns Well at speed
Retains E incredibly well
Dives Well
Accelerates quickly
Climbs well
Guns have very good ballistics
Guns are of high power
Low compression effect
High MA survivability
Exceptional visability
Dolby Yak3 Tour 162 - 105 for 20
No Dolby, both do, but usage seems to play a larger part in it.
You list some positives and ignore any of the negatives such as short range, no multi-role capability and extremely limited ammo. You also list a positive that is actually a negative, the guns are not high powered. Assuming that six M2 .50s are the base average the Yak-3 is below average in firepower.
The lack of multi-role capability is a major negative in this game.
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Better make the 262 18ENY Karnak.
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Better make the 262 18ENY Karnak.
Don't be daft. Perk planes operate outside of those rules and you well know it. Playing stupid does nothing good for a discussion.
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Playing stupid is just using your current argument.
Perk plane haves the same rules, effectiveness = ENY and perk price.
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Several notes about Yak-3
It has good but not superior acceleration:
| Aircraft | 150-200mph | 200-250mph | 250-300mph |
| La 7 | 7.9 | 11.3 | 16.6 |
| 109K | 7.9 | 11.1 | 17.1 |
| Spit XIV | 7.7 | 11.2 | 18.5 |
| 190D | 8.6 | 12.3 | 19.0 |
| Yak-3 | 8.6 | 12.2 | 20.8 |
| Typhoon | 10.2 | 14.0 | 20.9 |
| P-51D | 10.0 | 14.1 | 22.6 |
| P-38L | 9.7 | 13.9 | 25.9 |
| | | |
It has fair speed (on the deck) but far from being in the top:
La-7 ~ 380 mph
190D ~ 375
P-51D, Typhoon, 109K ~ ~370 mph
Spit-14 ~ 360 mph
Yak - 350 mph
It has very good but not outstanding climb rate:
Spit-14 ~ 4700
109K ~ 4600
La-7 ~ 4500
190D, Yak-3 ~ 4100
It has fairly good turn ratio but it would not out-turn most fighters AFAIK even Spit-14 would out-turn it.
It dives well but still Dora, and Mustang have better high speed handling.
It has poor weapon and poor range.
It is does not have very strong airframe like of Jug or F6F.
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However:
(a) it is very forgiving aircraft - it handles very well - much better than Pony, Dora of 109K, you can prevent spins easily before they begin..
(b) it is very good all round view
(c) it feels like it does not bleed energy too much even in high g turns
(d) Also it has poor ammo - it has no coverage issues allowing you to do sniper shots up to 600 yards (if the target is trying just to run)
So the combination of its fair speed, acceleration, climb and handling makes it quite amazing aircraft that feels very well.
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Playing stupid is just using your current argument.
Perk plane haves the same rules, effectiveness = ENY and perk price.
Ok, you need it spelled out.
Perk planes have their ENY set where it is likely to be if they were not perked. It is obvious that the usage of the Me262, Tempest, F4U-4 and F4U-1C would be vastly higher if they were not constrained by their perk prices.
It is obvious, looking at ENY values, that impact on the MA is the guiding principal and usage is one such measure of impact. Claims that usage is not part of ENY is a constant refrain of the P-51D fans futilely trying to get the P-51D's ENY raised by pointing out how much better than the P-51D all sorts of other fighters are.
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Playing stupid is just using your current argument.
Perk plane haves the same rules, effectiveness = ENY and perk price.
And the 262 is one of the fastest planes in the game, with a good climb rate, excellent dive speed, excellent guns that can shred any fighter with 1 hit and few hits on a bomber.
Take up a Yak3 and see if you can even manage to bring down 3 B17s with a decent gunner, its barely likely you can, mean while I've seen 262s bring down almost 20 in one sortie.
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It is obvious, looking at ENY values, that impact on the MA is the guiding principal
Effectiveness is impact.
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And the 262 is one of the fastest planes in the game, with a good climb rate, excellent dive speed, excellent guns that can shred any fighter with 1 hit and few hits on a bomber.
Take up a Yak3 and see if you can even manage to bring down 3 B17s with a decent gunner, its barely likely you can, mean while I've seen 262s bring down almost 20 in one sortie.
"Reductio ad absurdum"
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As to capability, look at some of the higher ENY aircraft. Do you really think the Mosquito Mk VI, with quad centerline Hispanos (175rpg), 2000lbs of bombs and 357mph on the deck is a 30 ENY based on capability? My post which prompted the recent ENY value changes to a number of aircraft included a suggestion to reduce the Mosquito's ENY value. HTC made changes to all the other aircraft I mentioned to look out of place, but not the Mosquito.
Table with top 13 planes + Mosquito Mk VI:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio | ENY |
| P-51D | 12104 | 9401 | 1.29 | 5 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6868 | 6066 | 1.13 | 5 |
| La-7 | 6720 | 5089 | 1.32 | 5 |
| F6F-5 | 5256 | 5490 | 0.96 | 12 |
| N1K2 | 5043 | 4739 | 1.06 | 8 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 6088 | 3590 | 1.70 | 12 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4750 | 3487 | 1.36 | 15 |
| F4u-1A | 4321 | 3033 | 1.42 | 12 |
| P-47M | 4620 | 2689 | 1.72 | 8 |
| F4U-1D | 3878 | 4826 | 0.80 | 9 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4366 | 2791 | 1.56 | 20 |
| A-20G | 3669 | 2747 | 1.34 | 15 |
| Yak-3 | 3607 | 2587 | 1.39 | 18 |
| Mosquito Mk VI | 2096 | 1602 | 1.31 | 30 |
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Looking at your table and Artik's post I think the Yak3 should be an eny 10 plane. It performs to well to be an 18.
As to capability, look at some of the higher ENY aircraft. Do you really think the Mosquito Mk VI, with quad centerline Hispanos (175rpg), 2000lbs of bombs and 357mph on the deck is a 30 ENY based on capability? My post which prompted the recent ENY value changes to a number of aircraft included a suggestion to reduce the Mosquito's ENY value. HTC made changes to all the other aircraft I mentioned to look out of place, but not the Mosquito.
Table with top 13 planes + Mosquito Mk VI:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio | ENY |
| P-51D | 12104 | 9401 | 1.29 | 5 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6868 | 6066 | 1.13 | 5 |
| La-7 | 6720 | 5089 | 1.32 | 5 |
| F6F-5 | 5256 | 5490 | 0.96 | 12 |
| N1K2 | 5043 | 4739 | 1.06 | 8 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 6088 | 3590 | 1.70 | 12 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4750 | 3487 | 1.36 | 15 |
| F4u-1A | 4321 | 3033 | 1.42 | 12 |
| P-47M | 4620 | 2689 | 1.72 | 8 |
| F4U-1D | 3878 | 4826 | 0.80 | 9 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4366 | 2791 | 1.56 | 20 |
| A-20G | 3669 | 2747 | 1.34 | 15 |
| Yak-3 | 3607 | 2587 | 1.39 | 18 |
| Mosquito Mk VI | 2096 | 1602 | 1.31 | 30 |
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Looking at your table and Artik's post I think the Yak3 should be an eny 10 plane. It performs to well to be an 18.
And the Mossie? ENY 30 based on capability?
Turns better than a P-51D, only 10mph slower, climbs as well at low altitude, much better firepower.
You get six perk points for killing a P-51D with a Mossie and 0.1667 perk points for killing a Mossie with a P-51D. I love fighting P-51s with the Mossie.
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And the Mossie? ENY 30 based on capability?
Turns better than a P-51D, only 10mph slower, climbs as well at low altitude, much better firepower.
You get six perk points for killing a P-51D with a Mossie and 0.1667 perk points for killing a Mossie with a P-51D. I love fighting P-51s with the Mossie.
You have a good point with the Mossie, I have only upped it once and got 3 quick kills. But the Yak3 is soooo much harder to kill.
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The mossie isn't exactly effective. It's a huge target. Comparisons to the P38 which is 25 ENY compared to the Mossies 30... Reduction in the Mossie would mean a reduction in the P38.
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The mossie isn't exactly effective. It's a huge target. Comparisons to the P38 which is 25 ENY compared to the Mossies 30... Reduction in the Mossie would mean a reduction in the P38.
Which P-38 is 25? Not the L.
Mossie spanks the G.
Certainly I am not arguing that the Mossie is ENY 5 or 10, but it is a damn sight better than the P-40N.
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P40s are terrible aircraft, ENY doesn't go high enough for them. :lol
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P40s are terrible aircraft, ENY doesn't go high enough for them. :lol
Yes, but the P-40N and Mosquito Mk VI are both ENY 30 last I saw.
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Silly question but how does a planes ENY effect you? You will still be facing the same plane and same pilots no? How does a number change anything for you when you against a yak3?
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Silly question but how does a planes ENY effect you? You will still be facing the same plane and same pilots no? How does a number change anything for you when you against a yak3?
It doesn't. But some people and squads compare scores and points, and it does affect that. There was a time that if the sides got out of balance you could only fly plane of a certain eny or higher if you where on the prevailing side. Then it would matter. But it seems that feature has been disabled since the split arenas were abandoned for one large arena.
If it doesn't concern you, then it doesn't concern you.
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It doesn't. But some people and squads compare scores and points, and it does affect that. There was a time that if the sides got out of balance you could only fly plane of a certain eny or higher if you where on the prevailing side. Then it would matter. But it seems that feature has been disabled since the split arenas were abandoned for one large arena.
If it doesn't concern you, then it doesn't concern you.
ENY limits based on population imbalance is still active. Populations just rarely get imbalanced enough for it to trigger.
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As to capability, look at some of the higher ENY aircraft. Do you really think the Mosquito Mk VI, with quad centerline Hispanos (175rpg), 2000lbs of bombs and 357mph on the deck is a 30 ENY based on capability? My post which prompted the recent ENY value changes to a number of aircraft included a suggestion to reduce the Mosquito's ENY value. HTC made changes to all the other aircraft I mentioned to look out of place, but not the Mosquito.
Table with top 13 planes + Mosquito Mk VI:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio | ENY |
| P-51D | 12104 | 9401 | 1.29 | 5 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6868 | 6066 | 1.13 | 5 |
| La-7 | 6720 | 5089 | 1.32 | 5 |
| F6F-5 | 5256 | 5490 | 0.96 | 12 |
| N1K2 | 5043 | 4739 | 1.06 | 8 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 6088 | 3590 | 1.70 | 12 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4750 | 3487 | 1.36 | 15 |
| F4u-1A | 4321 | 3033 | 1.42 | 12 |
| P-47M | 4620 | 2689 | 1.72 | 8 |
| F4U-1D | 3878 | 4826 | 0.80 | 9 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4366 | 2791 | 1.56 | 20 |
| A-20G | 3669 | 2747 | 1.34 | 15 |
| Yak-3 | 3607 | 2587 | 1.39 | 18 |
| Mosquito Mk VI | 2096 | 1602 | 1.31 | 30 |
seems to me that the Ki84 would stand some ENY adjustment before the Yak 3
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Why did this turn into a futile ENY argument? Values above 10 do not matter anyway.
Why worries me about the yak is that it seems to have almost no induced drag. I can hold it at 80 mpg with lots of rudder input, stall buzzer yelling and it still climbs at 3500 fpm. Most planes can barely hold level so far back on the power curve.
One last thing - stop saying that the yak has a short range. True, it is no p51 in that respect, but how long would most planes fly on WEP 100% of the time? Throttle back or reduce throttle and suddenly it flies as long as a typical non-escort fighter.
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seems to me that the Ki84 would stand some ENY adjustment before the Yak 3
Ki-84 is a better balanced plane than the Yak-3. It has good range and is a usable attack platform with its two 250kg bombs. It also packs more punch.
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Brewster?
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It doesn't. But some people and squads compare scores and points, and it does affect that. There was a time that if the sides got out of balance you could only fly plane of a certain eny or higher if you where on the prevailing side. Then it would matter. But it seems that feature has been disabled since the split arenas were abandoned for one large arena.
If it doesn't concern you, then it doesn't concern you.
well, I did not know that
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Brewster?
Is needlessly whined about:
Table with top 13 planes + Mosquito Mk VI + Brewster:
| Plane | Kills | Deaths | K/D Ratio | ENY |
| P-51D | 12104 | 9401 | 1.29 | 5 |
| Spitfire Mk XVI | 6868 | 6066 | 1.13 | 5 |
| La-7 | 6720 | 5089 | 1.32 | 5 |
| F6F-5 | 5256 | 5490 | 0.96 | 12 |
| N1K2 | 5043 | 4739 | 1.06 | 8 |
| Fw 190D-9 | 6088 | 3590 | 1.70 | 12 |
| Bf 109K-4 | 4750 | 3487 | 1.36 | 15 |
| F4u-1A | 4321 | 3033 | 1.42 | 12 |
| P-47M | 4620 | 2689 | 1.72 | 8 |
| F4U-1D | 3878 | 4826 | 0.80 | 9 |
| Ki-84-Ia | 4366 | 2791 | 1.56 | 20 |
| A-20G | 3669 | 2747 | 1.34 | 15 |
| Yak-3 | 3607 | 2587 | 1.39 | 18 |
| Mosquito Mk VI | 2096 | 1602 | 1.31 | 30 |
| Brewster B-239 | 1148 | 1541 | 0.74 | ?? |
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If you think it is over modeled in several ways, and it probably is, then you should start a thread about it. I started this thread about ENY because that is what was irking me at the time.
Why did this turn into a futile ENY argument? Values above 10 do not matter anyway.
Why worries me about the yak is that it seems to have almost no induced drag. I can hold it at 80 mpg with lots of rudder input, stall buzzer yelling and it still climbs at 3500 fpm. Most planes can barely hold level so far back on the power curve.
One last thing - stop saying that the yak has a short range. True, it is no p51 in that respect, but how long would most planes fly on WEP 100% of the time? Throttle back or reduce throttle and suddenly it flies as long as a typical non-escort fighter.
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seems to me that the Ki84 would stand some ENY adjustment before the Yak 3
This.
If the Yak3 is 10 eny there are about half a dozen more planes to perk and the Ki84 is 5 eny at most.
:rolleyes:
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Time to increase the spit 14's ENY..... :devil
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I'm sure that if HTC felt the Yak's would need any sort of change in ENY it'd be done already.
They are the ones that modeled and tested it, right?
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I fear this is just another BnZers whine thread.
Get a grip or just run faster
:rofl :aok
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And the 262 is one of the fastest planes in the game, with a good climb rate, excellent dive speed, excellent guns that can shred any fighter with 1 hit and few hits on a bomber.
Take up a Yak3 and see if you can even manage to bring down 3 B17s with a decent gunner, its barely likely you can, mean while I've seen 262s bring down almost 20 in one sortie.
Taking down bombers in a yak is har enough for a yak with an incapable gunner :D
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I don't believe the ki is 5 eny. It can't dive past 450 above 300 it turns like a pig. Is decent in the 150-250 range does not have highspeed flaps and is only mildly more effective then some platforms at the vertical due to decent power. Now that being said it is decent in many aspects of a stall fight but does not excelled at any one area and you have to manage your position and energy well. The gun package on the ki is again decent and comparable to many fighters but not a knock out artist. I don't see an eny of 5 but could see it at 15-18 and feel 20 is fair. Its not an easy plan to be great it and a really easy plane to be spanked in.
that being said it is my honest option and furthermore i feel based on what has been said the yak is right where it needs to be and maybe see it at 15 no lower.
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I don't believe the ki is 5 eny. It can't dive past 450 above 300 it turns like a pig. Is decent in the 150-250 range does not have highspeed flaps and is only mildly more effective then some platforms at the vertical due to decent power. Now that being said it is decent in many aspects of a stall fight but does not excelled at any one area and you have to manage your position and energy well. The gun package on the ki is again decent and comparable to many fighters but not a knock out artist. I don't see an eny of 5 but could see it at 15-18 and feel 20 is fair. Its not an easy plan to be great it and a really easy plane to be spanked in.
that being said it is my honest option and furthermore i feel based on what has been said the yak is right where it needs to be and maybe see it at 15 no lower.
wrong
extremely wrong
your opinion is wrong.
:huh....you dont say......ya I do actually :neener:
the only thing the KI does not excel at is high speed dives....now when I say High speed dives I am talking over 500...once you hit 500+ pieces will fall off.....every thing else it does great....much better then "decent"
it takes 450 easy right up to 500 it is still controllable.....albeit it needs gentile handling towards the 500 mark....but it certainly can dive up towards 480 with out an issue.
also it turns great at 300 :aok
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Usage does not determine ENY, aircraft effectiveness does.
Yak3
Dolby Yak3 Tour 162 - 105 for 20
I did 89 for 3 but I had to be very sparing with my ammo load to get more than 5 kills per sortie. Haven't seen many people flying the Yak-3 maybe it is different at prime time.
Most American 50 cal planes would be double figures easy. Thats why I fly a Spitfire because 7-8 per run is fairer for the opposition!
So from this discussion we have learn't that the yak3 ENY is perfectly acceptable and with no perk.
The KI 84 and 190D could stand to be reduced some more. :lol
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The KI 84 and 190D could stand to be reduced some more. :lol
Along with all spits be perked at 1,000,000 :neener:
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Along with all spits be perked at 1,000,000 :neener:
lets have a clipped Spit V LFB 240 rounds,
Spit mk XII griffon,
and a Gloster Meteor Mk III perked at 100 a piece, I can afford losing about 320 of them ;)
see what you started here Zach...
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Its usage doesn't support that, save.
It is natural, given the nature of the MA, to see the most capable version of an airframe dominate the usage of that airframe. It is true of A6Ms, Bf109s, Bf110s, Hurricanes, P-47s, P-51s and Spitfires. The Fw190A-8 was an anomaly produced by its high ENY rating and when that changed the anomaly receded. The F4U-1A is the best free version for air-to-air and the F4U-1D is the best free version for air-to-mud and that prevents a single F4U from dominating F4U airframe use. The P-38J seems to be the chosen mount for many of the most fanatical P-38 fans for reasons not associated with ENY or, I suspect, the game and that distorts those numbers.
Keep in mind that my ride is also pretty much just screwed against a non-incompetent in a Yak-3 as well, and I don't have a newer version to switch to. I'll grant you I rarely play nowadays so it doesn't actually affect me that much.
Is seems after analyzing the data that ENY has nothing to do with usage, or K/D ratio. So using those as arguments for ENY score is not valid.
ENY seems to be based on the planes ability. Total Ammo load, bomb load, and performance factors like Speed and Turn. K/D and Usage are player choices that may or may not be an accurate reflection of the plane's capability. I would say based on the data, player choices are not at all in line with the planes capability with a few exceptions.
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Is seems after analyzing the data that ENY has nothing to do with usage, or K/D ratio. So using those as arguments for ENY score is not valid.
ENY seems to be based on the planes ability. Total Ammo load, bomb load, and performance factors like Speed and Turn. K/D and Usage are player choices that may or may not be an accurate reflection of the plane's capability. I would say based on the data, player choices are not at all in line with the planes capability with a few exceptions.
Explain the Mossie and P-40N then...
Or do you think the P-40N is remotely as capable as the Mosquito Mk VI?
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wrong
extremely wrong
your opinion is wrong.
:huh....you dont say......ya I do actually :neener:
the only thing the KI does not excel at is high speed dives....now when I say High speed dives I am talking over 500...once you hit 500+ pieces will fall off.....every thing else it does great....much better then "decent"
it takes 450 easy right up to 500 it is still controllable.....albeit it needs gentile handling towards the 500 mark....but it certainly can dive up towards 480 with out an issue.
also it turns great at 300 :aok
*ruh row Raggie* :O Someone went and insulted the Hayate in front of INK. Get out...get out while you can! :bolt:
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Along with all spits be perked at 1,000,000 :neener:
If this were done, Pepprr would leave the game. :frown:
On the plus side...so would Midway! :D :aok :banana:
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*ruh row Raggie* :O Someone went and insulted the Hayate in front of INK. Get out...get out while you can! :bolt:
no not at all, just correcting an erroneous opinion....and miss information. :P
there is a lot of that going around....been thinking about putting together a KI film....showing the things that it supposedly cant do...although finding a film of it doing 500 is gonna be hard....I don't chase anyone..
I do believe the ENY is to high on it. I would think it should be a 10....but I don't know how HTC determines ENY (I don't think any of us really understand) wouldn't matter to me at all if they changed it....well it would suk being stuck on the hi number side and not being able to fly my ride....or being able to switch.
really hate the 12 hr rule...last couple times I flew I switched because of the huge green hourde on my side....then literally within 15 minutes.....the new side I was on became the hourde :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Explain the Mossie and P-40N then...
Or do you think the P-40N is remotely as capable as the Mosquito Mk VI?
I don't have the data for those two planes on hand, nor their ENY.
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no not at all, just correcting an erroneous opinion....and miss information. :P
there is a lot of that going around....been thinking about putting together a KI film....showing the things that it supposedly cant do...although finding a film of it doing 500 is gonna be hard....I don't chase anyone..
I do believe the ENY is to high on it. I would think it should be a 10....but I don't know how HTC determines ENY (I don't think any of us really understand) wouldn't matter to me at all if they changed it....well it would suk being stuck on the hi number side and not being able to fly my ride....or being able to switch.
really hate the 12 hr rule...last couple times I flew I switched because of the huge green hourde on my side....then literally within 15 minutes.....the new side I was on became the hourde :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
I think I got one to go pretty fast last night in a dive but it is useless. If you touch the controls at speed it will fall apart.
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I think I got one to go pretty fast last night in a dive but it is useless. If you touch the controls at speed it will fall apart.
i've definitely got it to go over 500 without ripping anything off...i've also had pieces come of at 505...but I pulled back a bit to hard... :o
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I don't have the data for those two planes on hand, nor their ENY.
Mossie is ENY 30 and, as I recall, the P-40N is also ENY 30.
Mossie is much faster, better climbing, better armed, longer ranged and carries more ordnance.
P-40N rolls faster and, probably, turns better.
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lets have a clipped Spit V LFB 240 rounds,
Spit mk XII griffon,
and a Gloster Meteor Mk III perked at 100 a piece, I can afford losing about 320 of them ;)
see what you started here Zach...
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :aok :banana: :banana:
actually i would love a clipped winged spit V :bolt:
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Mossie is ENY 30 and, as I recall, the P-40N is also ENY 30.
Mossie is much faster, better climbing, better armed, longer ranged and carries more ordnance.
P-40N rolls faster and, probably, turns better.
Mossie
Top Speed = 380mph
Armament =
Package 1 4x .303 MG, 500 rounds/gun
4x 20mm cannons, 150 rounds/gun
Package 2 4x .303 MG, 780 rounds/gun
4x 20mm cannons, 175 rounds/gun
Options 2x 500lb bombs
2x 250lb bombs
8x rockets
2x 50 gallon drop tanks
2x 100 gallon drop tanks
P40N
Top Speed = 350 mph
Armament = Not on the website. but IIRC....
6x.50cal 1800 rounds confirm?
2x1000 lb bombs confirm?
On paper that might end up a draw at ENY 30.
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Mossie
Top Speed = 384mph at 13,000ft, 357mph on the deck
Armament =
Package 1 4x .303 MG, 500 rounds/gun
4x 20mm cannons, 150 rounds/gun
Package 2 4x .303 MG, 780 rounds/gun
4x 20mm cannons, 175 rounds/gun Total firepower equal to about 13 Browning M2 .50 cals and all of it mounted centerline.
Options 4x 500lb bombs or 2x 500lb bombs and 8x60lb rockets Either of which it carries with far more aplomb than the P-490N with any bomb
2x 250lb bombs
8x rockets
2x 50 gallon drop tanks
2x 100 gallon drop tanks: On internal fuel it has probably three times the range
P40N
Top Speed = 350 mph
Armament = Not on the website. but IIRC....
6x.50cal 1800 rounds confirm?
3x500 lb bombs confirm?
On paper that might end up a draw at ENY 30.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=57&p2=120&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
It sure doesn't look like a draw to me.
Imagine two sides in AH, one only with Mossie VIs and C-47s and the other only with P-40Ns and C-47s. Which side wins?
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An opinion is not necissarly fact. In this instance my opinion was based on how i like to fly the ki. My far plane. With how quickly you can go from 450 to 500 in a ki don't feel its a great place to be or fight in. That being said it is my opinn the ki is useless above 450. And 300+ in the ki i find her heavy on the controls hence the term pig. I also feel the need to state that some belittle and bash too quickly on the game. Newer players are afraid to post our opinions or insites yes im new only been playing on and off a few months. Some Afraid to get jumped on instead of corrected and set right. Also this will probably be my only retort those that fly with me know me to be respectful 98% of he time.
Sorry for the rant and slight derailment.
That is all i expect no one to change and continue to be bashe'd but spoke because i finally felt the need.
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An opinion is not necissarly fact. In this instance my opinion was based on how i like to fly the ki. My far plane. With how quickly you can go from 450 to 500 in a ki don't feel its a great place to be or fight in. That being said it is my opinn the ki is useless above 450. And 300+ in the ki i find her heavy on the controls hence the term pig. I also feel the need to state that some belittle and bash too quickly on the game. Newer players are afraid to post our opinions or insites yes im new only been playing on and off a few months. Some Afraid to get jumped on instead of corrected and set right. Also this will probably be my only retort those that fly with me know me to be respectful 98% of he time.
Sorry for the rant and slight derailment.
That is all i expect no one to change and continue to be bashe'd but spoke because i finally felt the need.
no bashing at all....Like I said in response to your PM....don't expect sugar coating from me....I didn't insult you in any way....
the KI is far from being a "pig" that is the 47(you should ask the guy who thought the 47 could fight the KI on even terms :rofl).....the Ki is an elegant dancer that can dance with the best of them...and most often come out on top fighting the others fight.....IE stall fighting with Brewster's....fast knife fights with 190's......ECT ECT
the only thing it can not do is run away......but it is more then fast enough to catch a 190 or 51 that tries to run if you are close when they start to run....if you cant catch them and kill em quick they will get away...but as soon as I see someone try to run if I am not close I just don't follow.... I know it does not handle as good as the speed demons at high speed.
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Turn off combat trim and it doesn't get heavy until well after 400mph.
That said, it is still better balanced than the Yak-3 as the Ki-84 is capable of participating in all aspects of the game, being in many respects a Japanese P-51D. Long range, good performance, good speed, bombs and decent guns. As an all round package the Yak-3 just can't compete, though it is a very nice duelist's fighter.
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Turn off combat trim and it doesn't get heavy until well after 400mph.
That said, it is still better balanced than the Yak-3 as the Ki-84 is capable of participating in all aspects of the game, being in many respects a Japanese P-51D. Long range, good performance, good speed, bombs and decent guns. As an all round package the Yak-3 just can't compete, though it is a very nice duelist's fighter.
the second part I wholeheartedly agree...
I have combat trim on....I tried it with it off and didn't really notice a difference....I may not have given it enough time to truly test it though. now a days it seems pointless due to most not actually fighting and pushing the limits of the planes.
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Turn off combat trim and it doesn't get heavy until well after 400mph.
That said, it is still better balanced than the Yak-3 as the Ki-84 is capable of participating in all aspects of the game, being in many respects a Japanese P-51D. Long range, good performance, good speed, bombs and decent guns. As an all round package the Yak-3 just can't compete, though it is a very nice duelist's fighter.
Karnak, one thing thats interesting is I can fly the hell out of a P38J, not Lightning in a bottle good, but I can hold my own thanks to guys like Baloo. I couldn't fly a Mossy for anything, one thing is its great for perk building, however I just can't survive in it.
I don't believe a Mossy should be 30 eny, maybe 20 or lower because of those damn lasers on the front (but thats just me).
Reason I say it, with the cockpit view I can fly like a tie fighter and in a reverse merge I can saw a wing off no problem, simply its easy to get kills in a mossy, its just hard to live in one.
Compared to the P40N? I'd be a mossy driver or at least attempt to fly one.
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I've had one Mossie vs P-40N encounter that I can recall. I don't recall the guy's name (wasn't one of the famous in the community guys) and no idea how good he might be. I was low and slowish in a melee when a P-40N screamed in on me, I cut inside his turn, put my nose up and blew him apart. The thing that surprised me was that even with all his smash and me starting slowish, and after a mere 180 degree turn, he was already slower than my Mossie and unable to escape in a turning climb like he tried. I don't know if he chopped throttle or not though.
This may have colored my opinion on the relative balance of the two more that it ought to have, but to me the Mossie and P-40N are in entirely different leagues in terms of capability.
I do agree the Mossie is harder to survive in than most fighters.
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I've had one Mossie vs P-40N encounter that I can recall. I don't recall the guy's name (wasn't one of the famous in the community guys) and no idea how good he might be. I was low and slowish in a melee when a P-40N screamed in on me, I cut inside his turn, put my nose up and blew him apart. The thing that surprised me was that even with all his smash and me starting slowish, and after a mere 180 degree turn, he was already slower than my Mossie and unable to escape in a turning climb like he tried. I don't know if he chopped throttle or not though.
This may have colored my opinion on the relative balance of the two more that it ought to have, but to me the Mossie and P-40N are in entirely different leagues in terms of capability.
I do agree the Mossie is harder to survive in than most fighters.
You haven't run into someone who's really good in a P-40 yet, then. I've come across a few that made me say to myself "WTF?!?! how did he do that?"
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You haven't run into someone who's really good in a P-40 yet, then. I've come across a few that made me say to myself "WTF?!?! how did he do that?"
some one good can set up a trap and if you fall in it he will kill you. It does not make the p40 a good plane :old:
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I do agree the Mossie is harder to survive in than most fighters.
:aok this.
Mossies is super fun....but agree its extremely hard to land kills in. Not "A6M hard"*.......but hard.
*This past month I'd :banana: when I managed to land kills after a huge furball....and I can tell you I did less dancing than the pug-ugly wall-huggers on Prom Night. :lol
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:aok this.
Mossies is super fun....but agree its extremely hard to land kills in. Not "A6M hard"*.......but hard.
*This past month I'd :banana: when I managed to land kills after a huge furball....and I can tell you I did less dancing than the pug-ugly wall-huggers on Prom Night. :lol
Its not taht hard. I've landed a good number of Mossie sorties.
On the other hand, I don't think I have landed a single one of my rare P-40 sorties. That thing is a death trap because it can't egress and it is out fought by dozens of other aircraft in a melee.
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Thanks again the constructive criticism is better. :salute
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Its not taht hard. I've landed a good number of Mossie sorties.
Yes. You did. :D
Think "average" player or, in my case, "below average to just plain awful".
Ahhh...the profound truth of and sadness I feel after that last statement.... :cry
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no bashing at all....Like I said in response to your PM....don't expect sugar coating from me....I didn't insult you in any way....
the KI is far from being a "pig" that is the 47(you should ask the guy who thought the 47 could fight the KI on even terms :rofl).....the Ki is an elegant dancer that can dance with the best of them...and most often come out on top fighting the others fight.....IE stall fighting with Brewster's....fast knife fights with 190's......ECT ECT
the only thing it can not do is run away......but it is more then fast enough to catch a 190 or 51 that tries to run if you are close when they start to run....if you cant catch them and kill em quick they will get away...but as soon as I see someone try to run if I am not close I just don't follow.... I know it does not handle as good as the speed demons at high speed.
47 is in a totally different class than the ki. Ink i need to through my 47N at your ki one day :P
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Ok, I got online and checked ENYs. The P-40N is actually an ENY 35.
P-40C = ENY 40
P-40E = ENY 40
P-40F = ENY 40
P-40N = ENY 35
Per HTC, P-40s aren't very capable. :p Perhaps we need ENY to go to 50 just for the P-40s as there is a distinct difference in capability between the C and E/F. P-40C = ENY 50, P-40E = ENY 45, P-40F = ENY 40, P-40N = ENY 35.
The ENY 30 list is:
Bf109F-4
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Brewster B-239
La-5FN
Mosquito Mk VI
The Me410 and Sea Hurricane Mk I are both ENY 25. Not sure they are more capable than most of those ENY 30 fighters.
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Sea hurri has the ability to hjave 4 20mm guns and is CV enabled as well as being a great turner. Complete opposite of the 410 tho :rofl
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47 is in a totally different class than the ki. Ink i need to through my 47N at your ki one day :P
its just not a fair fight...we would be better off doing 47s..... :aok
I know some think I can only fly the Ki :rolleyes: there is not a fighter in the hanger I cant fly.....I just happen to love the Ki........ it is a beefed up Hurri. hell even after all my time in the KI...... I still have 2000+ more kills in the Hurricane :O
one day we will have the 4 20 mm Ki84 :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray and that will be the baddest fighter there is...nothing will compare to it for actually fighting. and I wont fly anything else. :t
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Sea hurri has the ability to hjave 4 20mm guns and is CV enabled as well as being a great turner. Complete opposite of the 410 tho :rofl
It is also so horribly underpowered that it handles like a dump truck, including poor turn rate, when lugging those 20mms, is probably the slowest fighter in the game and suffers fuel starvation in negative G maneuvers. Being CV capable doesn't make up for that, the 40 ENY A6M2 would crush it.
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Again the big difference in Ords.
You keep talking about fighter match ups, and dog fighting capability. Those are good opinions but they are not the majority of what makes up the ENY metric. !09s are good dog fighters, but carry little ords, and they don;t have a lot of firepower, hence they have lower ENY scores. Ponies, are average dog fighters, but carry the 5 ENY score because of Range and Ords capacity. Many a pony driver has complained about ENY 5 since the NEVER use the ords capacity.
HiTech said since the last few releases that ENY may need a refresh. Stay tuned.
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Again the big difference in Ords.
You keep talking about fighter match ups, and dog fighting capability. Those are good opinions but they are not the majority of what makes up the ENY metric. !09s are good dog fighters, but carry little ords, and they don;t have a lot of firepower, hence they have lower ENY scores. Ponies, are average dog fighters, but carry the 5 ENY score because of Range and Ords capacity. Many a pony driver has complained about ENY 5 since the NEVER use the ords capacity.
No idea what you are referring to as I am talking about the whole package, hence my calling the Ki-84 a much better balanced fighter compared to the Yak-3.
HiTech said since the last few releases that ENY may need a refresh. Stay tuned.
Yes, that was in the thread I started on the subject and ENY values have since been adjusted. We are talking about current ENY values that are the result of that adjustment.
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its just not a fair fight...we would be better off doing 47s..... :aok
I know some think I can only fly the Ki :rolleyes: there is not a fighter in the hanger I cant fly.....I just happen to love the Ki........ it is a beefed up Hurri. hell even after all my time in the KI...... I still have 2000+ more kills in the Hurricane :O
one day we will have the 4 20 mm Ki84 :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray and that will be the baddest fighter there is...nothing will compare to it for actually fighting. and I wont fly anything else. :t
OK I'll vote to add it IF it's requires a perk value for.....you
Perk Ink.
:salute
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You make a cute couple.
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It is also so horribly underpowered that it handles like a dump truck, including poor turn rate, when lugging those 20mms, is probably the slowest fighter in the game and suffers fuel starvation in negative G maneuvers. Being CV capable doesn't make up for that, the 40 ENY A6M2 would crush it.
I wonder why it has such a decent ENY value then.its just not a fair fight...we would be better off doing 47s..... :aok
I know some think I can only fly the Ki :rolleyes: there is not a fighter in the hanger I cant fly.....I just happen to love the Ki........ it is a beefed up Hurri. hell even after all my time in the KI...... I still have 2000+ more kills in the Hurricane :O
one day we will have the 4 20 mm Ki84 :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray and that will be the baddest fighter there is...nothing will compare to it for actually fighting. and I wont fly anything else. :t
Dont be such a tease! :cry
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You make a cute couple.
\
how about a menage a trois :joystick: :joystick: :joystick:
:D
:salute Vink
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Of course, I still think the Spit 8/9 are better as they are pure dogfighters, Yak (especially russian planes) are pure energy fighters. I'm willing to bet once the shock of the Yak-3 wears off that K/D drops. I'd like to see a graph 5 months from now to get an accurate picture.
In my opinion the Yak3 is easier to fly then the La7, which is ironic because I never learned or could fly an La7 and its far superior in every way.
I would not classify the Yak 3 as a pure energy fighter, it wasn't designed to be one. According to French ace Marcel Albert (23 kills) the Yak-3 was an excellent dogfighter and superior than the Spitfire in maneuvering. It was a tactical fighter, meant to dogfight at low altitudes over the battle field.
The Yak-3 should be easier to fly than the La-7, probably just as easy to fly as a Spitfire. In real life it was an easy to handle aircraft and forgiving to rookie pilots, seems like that trait is in our Yak-3 as well.
ack-ack