Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SirNuke on September 08, 2013, 04:26:40 AM
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Anyone knows why the spitfire mk1 does so much flat stalls in Aces High? Is the COG a bit off?
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Every spitfire has this habit, except the 16 with its shortened wings. At least after the 109/190, i felt something simmilar to the 152's stall.
This flat stall might be especially tipical for the Spit I because its relatively weaker engine combined with the faulthy carburator design, once you get into this situation, there is no engine power to "pull the plane forward" from the stall. Also, as you have mentioned, the CoG might be further back then no the other Spitfires.
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If you haven't already; try extending flaps and landing gear, throttle at idle, opposite rudder and push the nose down.
Edit: I'm assuming you mean a flat spin.
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I did this once in TT out of about 100 sorties.
Once you know how it happens it shouldn't be a problem. I was too low to get out of it but can easily recover providing I have sufficent height.
The trick is to not get into it in the first place. It can easily woop an e-mil without having to go all out.
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It can easily woop an e-mil without having to go all out.
Actually it can't. Not with a proper 109 driver in the Emil.
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errr nope, in a strict 1vs1 the e-mil will fail to get a good enough gun solution.
Whilst he can try to zoom climb, if the e-mil burns a fraction too much E turning, the Spit's greater climbing performance and turn rate will result in the e-mil with nowhere to go except runaway.
If you wish to be disproved the next time we are both online then we can go in a custom room and I will remove all doubt in your mind.
:salute
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I have won every Bf109E vs Spitfire Mk I fight I've ever had and I've always been in the Spit. I can't speak to the quality of my opponents, but I rather suck so....
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God help you if you roll that Spit over in the middle of the fight though. :lol
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God help you if you roll that Spit over in the middle of the fight though. :lol
:rofl
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God help you if you roll that Spit over in the middle of the fight though. :lol
Erm, not really. To dive you have to roll it over, unless you want the engine to cut out. You just need to maintain at least a slight positive G force.
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I will say that i prefer the hurri as oppose to the spit 1.
errr nope, in a strict 1vs1 the e-mil will fail to get a good enough gun solution.
Whilst he can try to zoom climb, if the e-mil burns a fraction too much E turning, the Spit's greater climbing performance and turn rate will result in the e-mil with nowhere to go except runaway.
If you wish to be disproved the next time we are both online then we can go in a custom room and I will remove all doubt in your mind.
:salute
I vill murder you :old:
Remeber what happened in Tank town? :bolt:
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what you spraying a bunch of 110G rounds with your throttle cut and a wingman for cover.
anytime in private! :ahand
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what you spraying a bunch of 110G rounds with your throttle cut and a wingman for cover.
anytime in private! :ahand
Anything to kill the bruv master.
ANd ive seen you do that in your spit5 with nuke before :neener:
and its called flying smart :D
I know what the out come will be but im sure as hell game. you going to fly tomorrow morning? ill be on(12-4am my time :P)
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errr nope, in a strict 1vs1 the e-mil will fail to get a good enough gun solution.
Whilst he can try to zoom climb, if the e-mil burns a fraction too much E turning, the Spit's greater climbing performance and turn rate will result in the e-mil with nowhere to go except runaway.
If you wish to be disproved the next time we are both online then we can go in a custom room and I will remove all doubt in your mind.
:salute
Cocky little diddlyer ain't you ;) With a proper 109 driver in the Emil (I don't know what an "e-mil" is) the Spit will have to work hard for the kill. The Spit can't "easily woop an e-mil without having to go all out".
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see now your playing on words woop and work hard are variable.
If you be aggressive with my spit you might last 2 / 3 full loops. If you be timid you might last 1 or 2 bnz passes.
However the end result = Spit owns EMIL!!!
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see now your playing on words woop and work hard are variable.
If you be aggressive with my spit you might last 2 / 3 full loops. If you be timid you might last 1 or 2 bnz passes.
However the end result = Spit owns EMIL!!!
You will be a fun fight. :salute
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see now your playing on words woop and work hard are variable.
Yet you insist on a very invariable conclusion to the fight. Only a blowhard would do that.
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IMO on the paper the spitfire has got all the cards
But in an event the 109 is much reliable in his flight behavior (no flat spin), gun package, and of course I'll mention the damn gravity fed carburator :cry
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IMO on the paper the spitfire has got all the cards
But in an event the 109 is much reliable in his flight behavior (no flat spin), gun package, and of course I'll mention the damn gravity fed carburator :cry
In a one on one it is easier to exploit the strengths of the Spitfire Mk I than of the Bf109E-4. The Bf109E-4's guns are better, but it has more trouble bringing them to bear on the Spitfire, which mostly eliminates that advantage. In a many on many the fact that Hans has trouble getting his 20mm cannons on Robert doesn't mean as much because while Robert is working on getting Hans, Gunter can get Robert and do so a lot faster than Robert can get Hans or John can clear Gunter off of Robert. One on one fights are not a particularly great indicator of battle effectiveness.
Now, the Spitfire Mk I and Bf109E-4 are so close in overall capability that even in a battle situation either side is capable of triumphing. For a more extreme example look to the A6M2 vs F4F-4. In a one on one the A6M2 utterly dominates the F4F-4, but in a many on many the A6M2s have almost no hope of winning, at least as modeled in AH.
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But back on subject one has to wonder if the real Spitfire Mark I was so prone to the nasty non-recoverable stall. It doesn't seem to have that reputation in real life at all. Does the literature say anything Karnak or Guppy?
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I met Bruvs Spit1 with my Emil, I was pounced by 3 or 4 people milliseconds before I could claim a well earned kill at TT not so long ago.
:banana:
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I met Bruvs Spit1 with my Emil, I was pounced by 3 or 4 people milliseconds before I could claim a well earned kill at TT not so long ago.
:banana:
i put 5 taters into his spit 8 and he went poof :devil
granted i had a wingman keep him busy and i DID chop my 110's throttle to turn with him :cheers:
*exits building swiftly before bruvs return*
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errr nope, in a strict 1vs1 the e-mil will fail to get a good enough gun solution.
Whilst he can try to zoom climb, if the e-mil burns a fraction too much E turning, the Spit's greater climbing performance and turn rate will result in the e-mil with nowhere to go except runaway.
If you wish to be disproved the next time we are both online then we can go in a custom room and I will remove all doubt in your mind.
:salute
:)
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But back on subject one has to wonder if the real Spitfire Mark I was so prone to the nasty non-recoverable stall. It doesn't seem to have that reputation in real life at all. Does the literature say anything Karnak or Guppy?
Id like to know too
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To my knowledge there are no aircraft that are immune to entering a flat spin, only varying difficulty of recovery, with some aircraft being impossible to recover.
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The question is how readily it enters. In this case an aircraft noted for its docility and ease to fly. Need Karnak and / or Guppy to consult the literature.
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I've never read anything about the Spit of any kind being prone to flat spins. I have not read all that much Spitfire Mk I specific stuff though. When I have read about 1940 it has more been in the context of about the pilots or about the BoB or BoF and those things don't delve into technical details all that deep. No comments from pilots that I can recall mentioning it.
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I met Bruvs Spit1 with my Emil, I was pounced by 3 or 4 people milliseconds before I could claim a well earned kill at TT not so long ago.
:banana:
that was my first flight in 3 weeks and I had near full fuel, I'm free every morning this week for robust training sessions, 9-11:30AM
herr Jarrboels was pencilled in this AM and he is fitter, leaner and meaner than ever before!! :O
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that was my first flight in 3 weeks and I had near full fuel, I'm free every morning this week for robust training sessions, 9-11:30AM
herr Jarrboels was pencilled in this AM and he is fitter, leaner and meaner than ever before!! :O
so if i want to fight i have to be awake at 2am? Great deal! If you see me pm me :t
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To my knowledge there are no aircraft that are immune to entering a flat spin, only varying difficulty of recovery, with some aircraft being impossible to recover.
I have never flat spinned in a B25 or a ar234 or an a20 all 3 are tricycle landing gear and are nose heavy
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For a more extreme example look to the A6M2 vs F4F-4. In a one on one the A6M2 utterly dominates the F4F-4, but in a many on many the A6M2s have almost no hope of winning, at least as modeled in AH.
What you fail to understand here is Pilots in aces high know the strengths and weaknesses of the A6m2 and F4F. During Midway I can show you dozens of After Action Reports showing Midway fighter pilots had no clue how to come the A6m. Some report would say it was doing well over 450mph in level flight, others say it climbed to no end, and turned endless circles around F4Fs.
In Aces high we also tend to have an Alt CAP, at 22k you really don't give the A6m much breathing room for one, few years back I did a scenario where there was no alt cap and the Zeros tore up the F4Fs (primarily because of the biggest factor being more skilled pilots were on the Japanese side for once and not flying F4Fs).
If you put 12 Fresh faced 2 weekers up against 12 veteran pilots flying A6m2 the end results is going to be the same period.
During the Battle of Britain English pilots did have some combat under their belt, far different the F4F pilots did at Midway. Also you have to remember the 109E and Spitfire were almost about the same in capabilities, far different then the Zero which out turned, out climbed, and was faster.
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You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. Dramatically so.
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I still don't get why a barrel roll makes the spit1 stall, certain combinations of roll and elevation will instantly make it flat stall. Weird for a beginner friendly plane.
mapage.noos.fr/rsm/spit1flat.ahf (http://mapage.noos.fr/rsm/spit1flat.ahf) 527kb
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I still don't get why a barrel roll makes the spit1 stall, certain combinations of roll and elevation will instantly make it flat stall. Weird for a beginner friendly plane.
mapage.noos.fr/rsm/spit1flat.ahf (http://mapage.noos.fr/rsm/spit1flat.ahf) 527kb
saved my arse in BoB
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IRL 109s could alway select to bunt nose-down in a dive and leave battle at will, IRL is was never to stay until the bitter end.
In AH Spit do owns in a 1vs1 equalyl good pilots, many vs many in a high-speed furball is another thing.
see now your playing on words woop and work hard are variable.
If you be aggressive with my spit you might last 2 / 3 full loops. If you be timid you might last 1 or 2 bnz passes.
However the end result = Spit owns EMIL!!!
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reminder the thread is about the weird spit1 stall departure characteristics, not the 109e4 matchup - please watch my film and comment