Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Vraciu on November 26, 2013, 12:44:34 PM
-
Kids nowadays think props are for boats. Why not Mig Alley? 86, 15, Pony, Yak, Sea Fury/Tempest, Sea Fire, Hawg, etc.... That could drive interest more than EW and MW.
-
Because it will look like the WWI arena that every one though would be good to have.
-
Haven't even been here a month and seeing your posts already make me :bhead
Try a search button. It's a great feature...
-
Haven't even been here a month and seeing your posts already make me :bhead
Try a search button. It's a great feature...
First of all, I was here in 2008. If you have only been here a month and don't like what I write then I must presume you are stupid or closed minded. I am articulate at worst and easy to read. I write well, punctuate, and know how to spell. If you can't handle that well... -----> There is a solution to my posting if you don't like it. <S>
Second, old ideas are not necessarily bad ones. This game is dying. I did this slog march with WBs. We are repeating that history here...
EW and MW are bad ideas. KW might be a better option. Bottom line is there are too many arenas for too few players. Time to dial it back and shake it up around here.
-
Aces High takes the art and science of vintage WW1 and WW2 air combat and sets it in a high intensity online multiplayer environment.
Korea and later Viet Nam don't fit into either category. They weren't even worldwide. How about a Cold War arena?
-
Korea and later Viet Nam don't fit into either category. They weren't even worldwide. How about a Cold War arena?
I am open to ideas. We have too many arenas for the player base. Collapse and diversify. See what happens.
-
No, Korea is a bad idea. It has highly imbalanced units, few famous units and to "Kids nowadays think props are for boats." the F-86 and MiG-15 are just as old news as the SPAD VII and DR.1. Going to things like the F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-37 would be very expensive due to avionic and missile modeling, but it might bring in some new players.
It would also cause many, perhaps most, of the existing customers to leave.
-
Well, it beats an empty EW MW.
-
Been here for 3 years and apparently has learned very little.
-
Because it will look like the WWI arena that every one though would be good to have.
Yes.
That's how it was in Air Warrior, which had a WWI arena and a Korean War arena. No one used them.
Korean War jet fights were glacial compared to WWII because it took so long for a jet to do a 360 compared to a WWII fighter and because most of the dogfight had the two planes 1000 yards or more apart. People did not fly prop planes in an arena with Mig 15's and F-86's -- they go in the other arena for that. So, it was an arena with, at best, a few people in it engaging in glacial jet fights.
WWI has the problem that the upper wing gets in the way of your forward-up view, which is hugely annoying in dogfight pursuit. WWII planes are just more fun to fight in. So again, that arena had no or only a few people in it.
WWI and Korean War sounds appealing to folks who didn't experience them in Air Warrior, but they aren't much fun compared to WWII.
WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.
-
Jetweek in the AVA the week of December 13. its as close as you're gonna get. both prop planes and jets. 262's sub for mig 15's and f86's. its quite an exciting week. jets are free, no perks.
yes this is a shameless advertisement for the AVA. :salute
-
Korea and later Viet Nam don't fit into either category. They weren't even worldwide. How about a Cold War arena?
Lordy, all the AtA Missiles... :uhoh
-
Yes.
That's how it was in Air Warrior, which had a WWI arena and a Korean War arena. No one used them.
Korean War jet fights were glacial compared to WWII because it took so long for a jet to do a 360 compared to a WWII fighter and because most of the dogfight had the two planes 1000 yards or more apart. People did not fly prop planes in an arena with Mig 15's and F-86's -- they go in the other arena for that. So, it was an arena with, at best, a few people in it engaging in glacial jet fights.
WWI has the problem that the upper wing gets in the way of your forward-up view, which is hugely annoying in dogfight pursuit. WWII planes are just more fun to fight in. So again, that arena had no or only a few people in it.
WWI and Korean War sounds appealing to folks who didn't experience them in Air Warrior, but they aren't much fun compared to WWII.
WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.
this
topic covered
-
No.
But you could start a NEW game called MIG Alley.
Just learn to write COAD, get about 500K$, work for about 2 years with a couple of gaming COADers that want to get paid AND get an equity position for their efforts.
Gahead...it'll be a winnah!!!!!!!!!!
-
First of all, I was here in 2008. If you have only been here a month and don't like what I write then I must presume you are stupid or closed minded. I am articulate at worst and easy to read. I write well, punctuate, and know how to spell. If you can't handle that well... -----> There is a solution to my posting if you don't like it. <S>
Second, old ideas are not necessarily bad ones. This game is dying. I did this slog march with WBs. We are repeating that history here...
EW and MW are bad ideas. KW might be a better option. Bottom line is there are too many arenas for too few players. Time to dial it back and shake it up around here.
You really need to read what he said....he has not been here for a month...not I have only been here a month....this is a WW2 game. This has been requested for many many years. If you want a KW game, make one. HT made as WW1 arena and look what it's doing..........zero.
Your turn Joach1m :D :salute
-
I'm just going to say......
+1 for the Ki-100, J2M3, D4Y and the Ki-44.
oh.....and I've been here for five years :joystick:
-
Well, it beats an empty EW MW.
How's that? By adding another empty arena? Don't say I don't know that because I've been there and done that. It'd be emptier than they are. A basically two plane arena. Oh yeah--big draw.
HTC have bigger fish to fry than adding another genre.
-
I posted this not long ago in a response to another idea in the wishlist forum (slightly edited):
I'd still like to see a Korean arena added at some point. A very few additions would be needed to get it in place (A-26, F-86, Mig 15) along with moving a few of the planes we have now over to fill it out (P-38, P-51, etc.). Planes like the A-26 could be used there and in the MA while several development opportunities would present themselves (F8F, later Spitfires, etc.) for some of those "just missed the war" additions people wish for.
Although I realize it would be a little populated arena it would provide a unique and fun diversion to the MA from time to time like WWI provides now. In fact, a bridge between WWI and WWII might allow a Spanish Civil War arena as well.
The problem I see with EW and MW as they stand is that there's nothing new there. Everything in those arenas is available in the MA. IMO the real expansion areas are in the fringes around WWII where there's still a ton of devlopment opportunity where each arena would bring something unique and different as a draw to both current and potential players.
There's a lot that could be done with what actually saw action at some point in time. There's also no need to dive in head first. Dipping a toe in these waters then adding to them slowly over time would be fine so as not to detract too much from MA development.
And yes, I still find enough people in WWI to play there once or twice a month and it's still a lot of fun when I do.
-
We'd get much more bang for the buck with that effort put into other things.
-
Kids nowadays think props are for boats. Why not Mig Alley? 86, 15, Pony, Yak, Sea Fury/Tempest, Sea Fire, Hawg, etc.... That could drive interest more than EW and MW.
having been here for almost 14 years, and having professionally reviewed combat simulators for a living in a past life, Korean War idea is nice, but not feasible because of the power balance issues for each side. I also remember a game called Mig Alley that didn't do well because it was done badly - it was actually done quite well. Just a very boring game really. (And I still own it) ;)
As an AvA admin, I have a hard time balancing mid to late war match ups due to the vastly superior Allied aircraft. Now throw in North Korea with WWII era vehicles and aircraft against the Allied might and 500-600 MPH fighter engagements, it's a big PITA. Sure the NK has the Mig, but that was it from a balance perspective.
We sometimes run Korean War scenarios in the AvA with Me-262's and Ardo bombers to simulate the belligerents but even when it's 262 vs 262 the fighting as very very different than prop fighting. By the time you've perhaps crossed path with an enemy fighter three or four passes, 10 minutes has passed. And if you want to disengage, you just keep flying straight after a merge. It gets boring quickly, especially if you've tried to dogfight a couple times and each time it lasted 3 seconds before you went down in flames.
We found in the AvA that most Korean War dogfights lasts seconds if you're good. One snapshot on a merge and then it's over - Jaeger and I have had battles in the AvA in our 262's that we're exciting from a jet perspective, but they either lasted 10 minutes or hard turns, merges, evasions, and extensive manoeuvring at 500mph. Sometimes we spent 10 minutes of maneuvering for 5 seconds of combat. Korean War is just not that interesting as jet to jet combat is a different animal than prop vs prop combat.
So no, I wouldn't recommend a Korean War. :(
-
Valid points. It was just a thought. <S>
-
having been here for almost 14 years, and having professionally reviewed combat simulators for a living in a past life, Korean War idea is nice, but not feasible because of the power balance issues for each side. I also remember a game called Mig Alley that didn't do well because it was done badly - it was actually done quite well. Just a very boring game really. (And I still own it) ;)
As an AvA admin, I have a hard time balancing mid to late war match ups due to the vastly superior Allied aircraft. Now throw in North Korea with WWII era vehicles and aircraft against the Allied might and 500-600 MPH fighter engagements, it's a big PITA. Sure the NK has the Mig, but that was it from a balance perspective.
We sometimes run Korean War scenarios in the AvA with Me-262's and Ardo bombers to simulate the belligerents but even when it's 262 vs 262 the fighting as very very different than prop fighting. By the time you've perhaps crossed path with an enemy fighter three or four passes, 10 minutes has passed. And if you want to disengage, you just keep flying straight after a merge. It gets boring quickly, especially if you've tried to dogfight a couple times and each time it lasted 3 seconds before you went down in flames.
We found in the AvA that most Korean War dogfights lasts seconds if you're good. One snapshot on a merge and then it's over - Jaeger and I have had battles in the AvA in our 262's that we're exciting from a jet perspective, but they either lasted 10 minutes or hard turns, merges, evasions, and extensive manoeuvring at 500mph. Sometimes we spent 10 minutes of maneuvering for 5 seconds of combat. Korean War is just not that interesting as jet to jet combat is a different animal than prop vs prop combat.
So no, I wouldn't recommend a Korean War. :(
I flew once in Target Korea (unfortunately this game is dead today) it was very nice I had a blast (when there were players online) I can tall you few things. Jets are very different but most of the time the difference is that you need to think differently. When you can pull from 0 to 10k it is different. Different energies different responses. The gunnery without gyro site is very hard (if possible at all)
It is just different.
About balance. MiG-15 kicks the F-86s bellybutton (despite that most players from USA think the other way around). F-86 gun package is a practical joke. There were stories of MiG-15 landing with hundreds of scratches without any damage. However they both very capable planes.
To make stuff more fun you need to go not on Korean war but rather early generation jets:
Meteor, Vampire, MiG-15, F-86, F-84, Mystere IV, Ouragan - now you have good setup as for example Mystere is very good match for MiG-15 (way better than F-86) and now you can choose.
-
Migs!
my word awesome :old:
-
The Mig 15 had many advantages over the F-86, but the F-86 had better handling at high speed than the Mig 15. (I think of it as being like a FW 190 vs. planes that don't handle well at speed.) The F-86F deployed later on was closer in performance to the Mig 15.
One of the things that is especially interesting to me about the Mig 15 is that it didn't have an axial-flow turbine -- it had a Whittle-type centrifugal-flow design (the Mig 15's Nene engine being a reverse engineered version of the British engines sold to the Soviets).
-
I heard that the other day that the Labour government sold them to Soviets.
Stalin said they must be mad selling them us :rofl
-
I heard that the other day that the Labour government sold them to Soviets.
Stalin said they must be mad selling them us :rofl
The British government at that time was highly naive about the Soviets.
-
The British government at that time was highly naive about the Soviets.
I don't think that it was naivete, but something more purposeful and overt. There were many people (especially among intellectuals) in the West overall (US and UK included) who were pro communism, pro socialism, and thus pro Soviet and who willfully ignored and misrepresented many egregious things.
-
I don't think that it was naivete, but something more purposeful and overt. There were many people (especially among intellectuals) in the West overall (US and UK included) who were pro communism, pro socialism, and thus pro Soviet and who willfully ignored and misrepresented many egregious things.
That is, I think, overstating it. There were many who were sympathetic, such as the British Labor government, and who refused to see the evil in the Soviets, but not many were actual communists. The Democrats in the US had a purge in the late '40s to get rid of those who were sympathetic and break all ties to the radical left in the USA. It took a lot longer for Labor to do the same in the UK.
-
Sometimes I think HTC added those other arenas just to prove a point to those who kept asking for them.
-
I always thought the Mig-15 was one of the sexiest looking aircraft ever built until one day last week when my desktop opened with a pic of a Mig-15 and a Mig-17. Now I'm torn. They're both pretty sexy.
-
I always thought the Mig-15 was one of the sexiest looking aircraft ever built until one day last week when my desktop opened with a pic of a Mig-15 and a Mig-17. Now I'm torn. They're both pretty sexy.
The 17 has a 'burner, too. Louder jet noise and fire! Woot!
-
If they want to do a Korean war arena that would be fine but there seems like there are priorities that should be higher on the list. Graphic updates like the terrain engine they are working on and expansion of the staged missions system should come first IMO.
-
WW1 arena could have been a great success if only..........
-
WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.
Agreed. The latter in particular kills WW1 for me. It's fun once in a blue moon as a lark, but for the most part the planes simply aren't capable enough to be as interesting to fight in as the WW2 birds.
Korea might be better if it weren't for the restrictions of the format. Limitations like hat switches, the limited resolution of monitors, the inherently clumsy modeling of g-forces on the pilot, and so forth hit jets harder than prop fighters IMO. Of course, another thing that killed the Korea arena in AW was that it was full realism - the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism. Thankfully AH doesn't have that; I think most people find it's more fun with the training wheels off once you get past the steep initial learning curve.
-
the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism.
Must have been a different AW.
- oldman
-
No, Korea is a bad idea. It has highly imbalanced units, few famous units and to "Kids nowadays think props are for boats." the F-86 and MiG-15 are just as old news as the SPAD VII and DR.1. Going to things like the F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-37 would be very expensive due to avionic and missile modeling, but it might bring in some new players.
It would also cause many, perhaps most, of the existing customers to leave.
If you want modern day, or more advanced jets DCS is currently the best option, and possibly the best combat sim around right now.
-
WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.
Agreed. The latter in particular kills WW1 for me. It's fun once in a blue moon as a lark, but for the most part the planes simply aren't capable enough to be as interesting to fight in as the WW2 birds.
Korea might be better if it weren't for the restrictions of the format. Limitations like hat switches, the limited resolution of monitors, the inherently clumsy modeling of g-forces on the pilot, and so forth hit jets harder than prop fighters IMO. Of course, another thing that killed the Korea arena in AW was that it was full realism - the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism. Thankfully AH doesn't have that; I think most people find it's more fun with the training wheels off once you get past the steep initial learning curve.
I would actually say that the golden age probably ended with all aspect missiles like AIM-9L, Python-3 etc and SAMs like SA-3, SA-6.
In 50th till 70ths all air battles were flown by "stick and throttle" pilots.
From MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19 to MiG-21 all had most of their victories using guns the same for western aircraft (until phantom) like F-86, Mystere IV, Super Mystere B2, Mirage III, Mirage V/Nesher.
First rear aspect missiles were almost useless expect for the targets flying on a straight line. In 1967 there were almost no-A2A kills with missiles later in 70th the situation improved and still guns were most important weapons. Also at 70th missiles become better you still had to get on other's 6 and fire one and hope the opponent wouldn't maneuver too hard. There were many massive air to air fights in 60th early 70th.
Korea, Vietnam, Middle East - had plenty air combats.
During 60th and 70th at middle east the massive air-to-air engagement were very common. They just had higher speeds and energies, but finally they had the same basic rules as WW2 planes had.
-
I'd definitely like to see a Korean arena at some point. To me, it represents a very interesting transition period, where gun-kills were still the only option, and pilot skills were the primary difference between victory and defeat. +1
-
I would love to see a Korean Arena. AW had it and contrary what you might hear, there were plenty of people there and the combat was very much fun. I know this for a fact, I flew there exclusively my last year at AW. Mig15's and F86's was a really good match up and after learning each plane's strengths and weaknesses, we learned to stay within the best performance envelope for the aircraft flown. There were also plenty of prop plane fighters that also came there for the challenge.
Bring it.
-
WW1 arena could have been a great success if only..........
I keep saying the WWI arena's main issue is a combination of plane set and lack of mechanics to drive fights. Dr.I needs to be perked and a more balanced German machine (Albatros D.V would work well for the later-war setting) added, the Spad XIII and one of the Nieuports (probably the Nieuport 28 given the rest of the plane set) need to be added, bombers and a strat system (rather than factories, bombing stuff like troop staging areas, motorpools, aerodromes, etc) would be welcome, and some sort of capture/advancement mechanic needs to be developed.
WWI was quite active when it was first added, so I'd say the interest is there, it just has problems that need to be addresses.
-
I keep saying the WWI arena's main issue is a combination of plane set and lack of mechanics to drive fights. Dr.I needs to be perked and a more balanced German machine (Albatros D.V would work well for the later-war setting) added, the Spad XIII and one of the Nieuports (probably the Nieuport 28 given the rest of the plane set) need to be added, bombers and a strat system (rather than factories, bombing stuff like troop staging areas, motorpools, aerodromes, etc) would be welcome, and some sort of capture/advancement mechanic needs to be developed.
WWI was quite active when it was first added, so I'd say the interest is there, it just has problems that need to be addresses.
I really don't understand all the fear of the Dr.I. Yes it's an excellent aircraft and very dangerous in the right hands but it's difficult to fly, easy to stall, and does not regain energy for vertical maneuvers well. If any aircraft in there could be called overpowered it would be the F.2B, which I find to be almost as capable in the turn as the DR.1 with the added advantage that it holds energy and climbs much better then any other aircraft currently available in the arena.
-
At the risk of driving this threat further off topic, the main thing that keeps me out of the WWI arena is equally the lack of numbers and the lack of game-play, i.e. something to generate fights. I believe the later drives the former. I've got a feeling that the limited plane set and lack of any kind of dynamic front/strat won't be addressed unless there's more people in there, but there won't be more people unless there's more planes and a reason to fight. I remember Dawn of Aces, and much enjoyed it. I especially liked the zeppelins and being able to call in and spot artillery strikes on enemy bases, as well as the nicely rendered landscape with miles of trench lines.
-
AW had it and contrary what you might hear, there were plenty of people there and the combat was very much fun. I know this for a fact, I flew there exclusively my last year at AW.
My experience was that it seemed to have 1/10th (or less) the numbers of other areas of the game. Same for WWI.
Perhaps we weren't seeing different things, though, but having different ideas of what "it wasn't used much" means. For me, that means 1/10th or less of the attendance in other areas whereas you might mean that as long as it had X people in it, it was fine.
I'd rather see HTC spend their time on improving the part of the game where 90% or more of the people play rather than adding another arena that I think will be lightly used (or less, if it's like WWI).
-
Must have been a different AW.
- oldman
The FR arenas had on average a lower population than the RR arenas but that's not to say the FR arenas were empty, they weren't. It's just that the majority of AW players played in the RR arenas.
ack-ack
-
True, the RR arenas had the majority of players, but that was because that was where pretty much all of the baby seals went during their two week trials. The FR arenas were decently populated and most of the people in it were usually pretty serious about the game. Good times they were :)
It's been quite a while, but as I remember, the Korea arena was difficult because it was FR and with the high closing speeds and almost instantaneous high-G blackouts it was very hard to keep track of your opponents. Also, there wasn't really all that much to do in the Korea arena other than A2A.
Things are different now though. The graphics today are much better and have more detailed terrain features. There are alot of people flying with TrackIR and/or multiple monitors, giving them better situational awareness. People are flying wih with force feedback which can help deal with the high-g blackouts. The ground war component in AH is much more involved and has more participants than AW had and AH now has a high alt bomber that can be escorted by the jets.
With all of this, I think that a Korea arena might work better than it did in the past.
I have had the opportunity to hang out with members of the 13th Bomb Squadron Association. A great majority of them crewed B26 (A26) Invaders in Korea and their stories of missions down on the deck, flying through the mountains and valleys, dueling it out with flack sites, attacking targets like tanks, bridges, trains, convoys, etc... are incredible. It was a whole different air war down there and I think that AH could gould di it the justice that AW couldn't.
-
Kids nowadays think props are for boats. Why not Mig Alley? 86, 15, Pony, Yak, Sea Fury/Tempest, Sea Fire, Hawg, etc.... That could drive interest more than EW and MW.
Because its just a bad idea in general...
Wish people would dispense with the "bigger, faster, better" mentality. Jets are empirically less fun to fly than the 109E.
So cheer up kiddies; you may not get your postwar crap at any point ever in Aces High, but you already have some of the most fun aircraft built. I highly recommend planes like the Spitfire Mk 1, P-40's (C model if you've got the bollox for it), Ki-61, Ki-43, and of course the 109E, which is scientifically proven to be the most fun aircraft ever built :aok.
-
At the risk of driving this threat further off topic, the main thing that keeps me out of the WWI arena is equally the lack of numbers and the lack of game-play, i.e. something to generate fights.
I was in there for awhile during a map reset recently..
the sides were like 10-2-1, with 6 guys ganging 2, and the other 4 ganging the other one.
WTF is that?
there's nothing to do in there except have a fight, there's no time limit on switching sides, yet people still apparently want nothing more than to see green icons near them. :uhoh