Why not a Korean War Arena?

[Vraciu]

I always thought the Mig-15 was one of the sexiest looking aircraft ever built until one day last week when my desktop opened with a pic of a Mig-15 and a Mig-17.  Now I'm torn.  They're both pretty sexy.

The 17 has a 'burner, too. Louder jet noise and fire!  Woot!

[jimson]

If they want to do a Korean war arena that would be fine but there seems like there are priorities that should be higher on the list. Graphic updates like the terrain engine they are working on and expansion of the staged missions system should come first IMO.

[Yeager]

WW1 arena could have been a great success if only..........

[Crash Orange]

WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.

Agreed. The latter in particular kills WW1 for me. It's fun once in a blue moon as a lark, but for the most part the planes simply aren't capable enough to be as interesting to fight in as the WW2 birds.

Korea might be better if it weren't for the restrictions of the format. Limitations like hat switches, the limited resolution of monitors, the inherently clumsy modeling of g-forces on the pilot, and so forth hit jets harder than prop fighters IMO. Of course, another thing that killed the Korea arena in AW was that it was full realism - the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism. Thankfully AH doesn't have that; I think most people find it's more fun with the training wheels off once you get past the steep initial learning curve.

[Oldman731]

the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism.

Must have been a different AW.

- oldman

[STXAce8]

No, Korea is a bad idea.  It has highly imbalanced units, few famous units and to "Kids nowadays think props are for boats." the F-86 and MiG-15 are just as old news as the SPAD VII and DR.1.  Going to things like the F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-37 would be very expensive due to avionic and missile modeling, but it might bring in some new players.

It would also cause many, perhaps most, of the existing customers to leave.

If you want modern day, or more advanced jets DCS is currently the best option, and possibly the best combat sim around right now.

[artik]

WWII is the golden age of air combat, where the planes were slow enough to make close-in fights possible and 360's possible in short times, but were advanced enough to have good visibility and performance good enough for vertical maneuvering.

Agreed. The latter in particular kills WW1 for me. It's fun once in a blue moon as a lark, but for the most part the planes simply aren't capable enough to be as interesting to fight in as the WW2 birds.

Korea might be better if it weren't for the restrictions of the format. Limitations like hat switches, the limited resolution of monitors, the inherently clumsy modeling of g-forces on the pilot, and so forth hit jets harder than prop fighters IMO. Of course, another thing that killed the Korea arena in AW was that it was full realism - the full realism WW2 arenas were almost as dead, almost everybody wanted to play relaxed realism. Thankfully AH doesn't have that; I think most people find it's more fun with the training wheels off once you get past the steep initial learning curve.

I would actually say that the golden age probably ended with all aspect missiles like AIM-9L, Python-3 etc and SAMs like SA-3, SA-6.

In 50th till 70ths all air battles were flown by "stick and throttle" pilots.

From MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19 to MiG-21 all had most of their victories using guns the same for western aircraft (until phantom) like F-86, Mystere IV, Super Mystere B2, Mirage III, Mirage V/Nesher.

First rear aspect missiles were almost useless expect for the targets flying on a straight line. In 1967 there were almost no-A2A kills with missiles later in 70th the situation improved and still guns were most important weapons. Also at 70th missiles become better you still had to get on other's 6 and fire one and hope the opponent wouldn't maneuver too hard. There were many massive air to air fights in 60th early 70th.

Korea, Vietnam, Middle East - had plenty air combats.

During 60th and 70th at middle east the massive air-to-air engagement were very common. They just had higher speeds and energies, but finally they had the same basic rules as WW2 planes had.

[Sabre]

I'd definitely like to see a Korean arena at some point.  To me, it represents a very interesting transition period, where gun-kills were still the only option, and pilot skills were the primary difference between victory and defeat. +1

[Zoney]

I would love to see a Korean Arena.  AW had it and contrary what you might hear, there were plenty of people there and the combat was very much fun.  I know this for a fact, I flew there exclusively my last year at AW.  Mig15's and F86's was a really good match up and after learning each plane's strengths and weaknesses, we learned to stay within the best performance envelope for the aircraft flown.  There were also plenty of prop plane fighters that also came there for the challenge. 

Bring it.

[Saxman]

WW1 arena could have been a great success if only..........

I keep saying the WWI arena's main issue is a combination of plane set and lack of mechanics to drive fights. Dr.I needs to be perked and a more balanced German machine (Albatros D.V would work well for the later-war setting) added, the Spad XIII and one of the Nieuports (probably the Nieuport 28 given the rest of the plane set) need to be added, bombers and a strat system (rather than factories, bombing stuff like troop staging areas, motorpools, aerodromes, etc) would be welcome, and some sort of capture/advancement mechanic needs to be developed.

WWI was quite active when it was first added, so I'd say the interest is there, it just has problems that need to be addresses.

[ReVo]

I keep saying the WWI arena's main issue is a combination of plane set and lack of mechanics to drive fights. Dr.I needs to be perked and a more balanced German machine (Albatros D.V would work well for the later-war setting) added, the Spad XIII and one of the Nieuports (probably the Nieuport 28 given the rest of the plane set) need to be added, bombers and a strat system (rather than factories, bombing stuff like troop staging areas, motorpools, aerodromes, etc) would be welcome, and some sort of capture/advancement mechanic needs to be developed.

WWI was quite active when it was first added, so I'd say the interest is there, it just has problems that need to be addresses.

I really don't understand all the fear of the Dr.I. Yes it's an excellent aircraft and very dangerous in the right hands but it's difficult to fly, easy to stall, and does not regain energy for vertical maneuvers well. If any aircraft in there could be called overpowered it would be the F.2B, which I find to be almost as capable in the turn as the DR.1 with the added advantage that it holds energy and climbs much better then any other aircraft currently available in the arena.

[Sabre]

At the risk of driving this threat further off topic, the main thing that keeps me out of the WWI arena is equally the lack of numbers and the lack of game-play, i.e. something to generate fights.  I believe the later drives the former.  I've got a feeling that the limited plane set and lack of any kind of dynamic front/strat won't be addressed unless there's more people in there, but there won't be more people unless there's more planes and a reason to fight.  I remember Dawn of Aces, and much enjoyed it.  I especially liked the zeppelins and being able to call in and spot artillery strikes on enemy bases, as well as the nicely rendered landscape with miles of trench lines.

[Brooke]

AW had it and contrary what you might hear, there were plenty of people there and the combat was very much fun.  I know this for a fact, I flew there exclusively my last year at AW.

My experience was that it seemed to have 1/10th (or less) the numbers of other areas of the game.  Same for WWI.

Perhaps we weren't seeing different things, though, but having different ideas of what "it wasn't used much" means.  For me, that means 1/10th or less of the attendance in other areas whereas you might mean that as long as it had X people in it, it was fine.

I'd rather see HTC spend their time on improving the part of the game where 90% or more of the people play rather than adding another arena that I think will be lightly used (or less, if it's like WWI).

[Ack-Ack]

Must have been a different AW.

- oldman

The FR arenas had on average a lower population than the RR arenas but that's not to say the FR arenas were empty, they weren't.  It's just that the majority of AW players played in the RR arenas. 

ack-ack

[StuB]

True, the RR arenas had the majority of players, but that was because that was where pretty much all of the baby seals went during their two week trials. The FR arenas were decently populated and most of the people in it were usually pretty serious about the game. Good times they were
It's been quite a while, but as I remember, the Korea arena was difficult because it was FR and with the high closing speeds and almost instantaneous high-G blackouts it was very hard to keep track of your opponents. Also, there wasn't really all that much to do in the Korea arena other than A2A.
Things are different now though. The graphics today are much better and have more detailed terrain features. There are alot of people flying with TrackIR and/or multiple monitors, giving them better situational awareness. People are flying wih with force feedback which can help deal with the high-g blackouts. The ground war component in AH is much more involved and has more participants than AW had and AH now has a high alt bomber that can be escorted by the jets.

With all of this, I think that a Korea arena might work better than it did in the past.

I have had the opportunity to hang out with members of the 13th Bomb Squadron Association. A great majority of them crewed B26 (A26) Invaders in Korea and their stories of missions down on the deck, flying through the mountains and valleys, dueling it out with flack sites, attacking targets like tanks, bridges, trains, convoys, etc... are incredible. It was a whole different air war down there and I think that AH could gould di it the justice that AW couldn't.