Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rich46yo on December 20, 2013, 10:51:21 AM
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http://blackfishmovie.com/
I went to Sea World once and that was last year. We were down in TX. and were looking for something to do while visiting my son in USAF so we went. I never even saw the orcas cause the exhibit was closed. I did see a bunch of dolphins in a bath tub exhibit and found the thing disgusting. After watching this film I cant believe these crap holes are allowed to exist because its so cruel to the animals. Let alone the trainers who might end up in the belly of one.
So for no other reason other then profit and the ego of the trainers these animals are kept in these terrible conditions. No wonder they go nuts.
Anyway its also on Netflix and worth a sit thru. I'll never give another dime to a place like Sea World.
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A very good watch. Several singers and celebrities have cancelled their appearances this coming year after seeing the documentary.
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I suggest you educate yourself before speaking up about Sea World. That film is terribly lopsided and misleading. The maker had an agenda and it was not the truth. The truth would allow the viewer to come to their on conclusion..... not have it spoon fed to them.
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I suggest you educate yourself before speaking up about Sea World. That film is terribly lopsided and misleading. The maker had an agenda and it was not the truth. The truth would allow the viewer to come to their on conclusion..... not have it spoon fed to them.
Well whatever you do dont mention whats "terribly lopsided and misleading" or what the "truth" is. Sea World didnt either, instead they refused to participate in the film.
Spend money to trap highly intelligent marine animals, keep them in a bath to to perform circus acts for $$$$, sell the jizz of one who has killed 3 already "again for big $$$", and then spin the story every time one of them kills or maims cause they have gone nuts. See? I came to my own conclusion easily. Of course I knew it was all a cruel circus act for $$ even before I saw the film.
If there is some other motive for this kind of cruelty and disregard for the safety of your own employees by all means tell us.
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Even before I watched this movie I had mind made up about Seaworld. The only reason they get away with how they treat the animals in that 19 century circus is they do not have legs. When I was a kid back in 1978 or 1979 I went to the one in Orlando. What I remember most is the dolphins were kept in 2 feet of water and they looked like they were waiting for the sushi chef to show up and put them out of their misery. The movie was what I expected, but I did not know that many trainers were killed or injured for your entertainment.
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Hey lets ride on an imprisoned animal that's known to eat great white sharks!
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I suggest you educate yourself before speaking up about Sea World. That film is terribly lopsided and misleading. The maker had an agenda and it was not the truth. The truth would allow the viewer to come to their on conclusion..... not have it spoon fed to them.
This issue is black and white ;) . Orcas should not be held in captivity. Just look at the dorsal fin of a captive killer whale. That's not how it's supposed to look.
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Still waiting shuffler for the "other side" of the argument.
Killer whales are not threatened, have never been hunted by man "except for display", there is no ecological reason to store them in animal parks. Like in zoos who have breeding programs for endangered animals as a hedge against extinction and to keep their genealogy strong. There is a stable population of over 50,000 orcas in the wild so why else would they capture them and keep them in bath tubs? Then break up what family they have to send them to other parks in order to sell even more Shamu stuffed animals? Did you even see that mother when they took her baby because the baby was causing problems with the circus act?
Hell, at least most zoos make an attempt to give their animals a habitat and stable life. At Sea World "The show must go on" so they throw these highly intelligent animals together, some of whom get injured and killed by other orcas because they dont have stable family units. So they are not only kept in bath tubs but also conditions that are brutal to them and totally foreign to their species.
Its really a disgusting story. Now this is a article I found that disputes in the film and its thesis http://melissaasmith.hubpages.com/hub/blackfish-film . In it, if you read it closely enough, the writer doesnt make one single point that makes any sense, or has any bearing. All he seems to say is "the producers are stupid animal lovers" and he continues to blather on with stuff like how we dont know if orcas will attack humans in the wild cause we havnt swam with them enough in the open ocean. WTF is he talking about?
Sure the film was made by the bambi crowd, who else is going to give a damn about these animals? At least enough to make the film. Heres the thing tho, Im a hunter/conversationalist, a guy who believes whales should be hunted as long as their populations are stable and strong, and I still agree with the Bambi crowd on this. I think it would be better to kill the orcas then keep them like this. And better still just let them live free and leave them alone. Cruelty to animals is mean spirited. Cruelty and greed is even worse. I piss on Sea World.
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Sea World stock prices. The little fish in the graph reflect the release dates of the film Black Fish.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/SEAworld_zps565fffeb.jpg)
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I wonder if aquatic mammals taste like fish; seals, whales, dolphins. Anyone ever tried one?
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This film is offensive as it reinforces negative stereotypes about white people. It may be called black fish but the two words that kept coming to mind as those poor naive trainers were talking to the camera were "white people". :lol
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I wonder if aquatic mammals taste like fish; seals, whales, dolphins. Anyone ever tried one?
Apparently whale is quite tasty.
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BlackFish did a good job of making Seaworld look bad, and I asked myself "is this the typical CNN chop piece, and is the truth someplace in the middle?" while watching it a couple months ago when it first aired. Now, rewatching it on Netflix, I still can't answer that, as like Rich pointed out, SeaWorld STILL hasn't responded to the allegations made in the documentary.
Where do we as humans draw the line? A: Animals are either here for us to use, or they aren't. B: Some animals have more "sentience" than others, or more "intelligence", and should be in a separate category, and treated accordinly C: Animals are all our equals, and we should just leave ALL of them alone.
If the case can be made that keeping Orca's in captivity is wrong, shouldn't the same be said for all the millions of horses kept in captivity? They are subject to the same breeding techniques as the whales, the same captivity in corrals, the same veterinarian procedures, the are separated from their young for breeding purposes, they are sometimes eaten, or sold to the glue factory, they are used in entertainment shows like rodeos, horses races, and hundreds of other things......
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I think it is about domestication. The Navy has tried it with mixed results. These sea mammals do not want to obey because they are smart. Horses can be smart but the ornery disobedient ones become dog food. The horse has been domesticated about as long as the cat. How trainable are cats?
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Apparently whale is quite tasty.
as is dog..shame on you IF you don't get my "drift" :old:
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Apparently this is their response, "notice how it is only on their web page and they avoid informed debate". http://seaworld.com/en/ourcare/Letter?from=portal
I will attempt to answer each one with what i know, what has been alleged about them, or what I think. Mind you Im a bit cynical when it comes to money making corporations. Which is what Sea World is. It is NOT a animal welfare organization.
Here are some important facts about SeaWorld and our work:
SeaWorld does not capture killer whales in the wild. Due to the groundbreaking success of our research in marine mammal reproduction, we haven’t collected a killer whale from the wild in 35 years. In fact, only two of the whales in our care were collected by SeaWorld and they continue to be in our care today. In addition, our research has led to a much greater understanding of whales in the wild, giving researchers important scientific insights surrounding marine mammal reproduction.
They dont capture them anymore because they are not allowed to. Also the ones they captured are almost all dead, most of them prematurely, and they have two males in their collection that supply enough sperm to keep their collection stable or growing. Simply put, choking a male orca's chicken is far cheaper, and far more PC, then capturing babies and killing some in the pod in the process.
We do not separate killer whale moms and calves. SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf. On the rare occasion that a mother killer whale cannot care for the calf herself, we have successfully hand raised and reintroduced the calf. Whales are only moved to maintain a healthy social structure.
"WE do not" does not mean "we never have". http://www.orcahome.de/orcastat.htm And how in hell do you maintain a "healthy social structure" when the orcas in the pool are all strangers to begin with?
SeaWorld invests millions of dollars in the care of our killer whales. In the last three years alone, we have invested $70 million in our killer whale habitats and millions of dollars annually in support of these facilities.
If they invest 70 m they must be making 140 m. Our habitats are among the largest in the world today.
Gee thats saying a lot. Im sure the Russian ones are a real Luxury estate. The world wide parks are total crap holes.[/b]They are state-of-the-art, multimillion-gallon environments of cooled and filtered water that allow for the highest and safest standards of care. We give our animals restaurant-quality fish, exercise, veterinary care, mental stimulation, and the company of other members of their species.
"Cooled and filtered water" thats priceless. They feed these animals frozen and dead for days fish and keep them "mentally stimulated" in a filtered bath tub. "Restaurant quality"? :rofl
SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild. While studies continue to define the average life span of killer whales in the wild, the most recent science suggests that our killer whales’ life spans are comparable — indeed, five of our animals are older than 30, and one of our whales is close to 50.
Lie! The life span of free roaming Orcas has been known for many years. And notice how they never mention all the ones that have croaked under their care?
The killer whales in our care benefit those in the wild.
How? They arent squealing endangered! We work with universities, governmental agencies and NGOs to increase the body of knowledge about and the understanding of killer whales
Joseph Mengele did something of the same.— from their anatomy and reproductive biology to their auditory abilities.
That justifys torture of animals and the death/injuries of your employees? Some populations of wild killer whales have been classified as endangered or threatened, demonstrating the potential critical nature of these research opportunities.
Again..How? What exactly are they learning about these things that justifys tormenting them for profit and putting your trainers at risk? This type of controlled research and study is simply not possible in the wild, and has significant real-world benefits to the killer whales that live there.
Like what? In between the circus acts exactly WTF are they learning about these animals? Other then they make them a lot of money?
SeaWorld is a world leader in animal rescue. The millions of people who visit our parks each year make possible SeaWorld’s world-renowned work in rescue, rehabilitation and release. We are constantly innovating when it comes to this care: Our veterinarians have created nursing bottles to hand-feed orphaned whales, prosthetics to save sea turtles, and a wetsuit to help injured manatees stay afloat during rehabilitation. Whether it’s the result of natural or man-made disasters, SeaWorld is always on call and often the first to be contacted. We have rescued more than 23,000 animals with the goal of treating and returning them to the wild.
Man I dont even know how to answer that one. Hahahahaha. 23,000 animals? Even if true, and I really doubt it, WTF does that have to do with tormenting orcas and whacking out your own trainers?
Most of you are familiar with corporation spin and double talk. Does this or doesnt it sound like a bunch of BS to you?
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If the case can be made that keeping Orca's in captivity is wrong, shouldn't the same be said for all the millions of horses kept in captivity? They are subject to the same breeding techniques as the whales, the same captivity in corrals, the same veterinarian procedures, the are separated from their young for breeding purposes, they are sometimes eaten, or sold to the glue factory, they are used in entertainment shows like rodeos, horses races, and hundreds of other things......
I dont like double posting but horses are domesticated animals. Not wild ones. Yes there are wild horses but they arent what were talking about here. I'd also add that yes orcas and dolphins are far more intelligent and sentient then horses but cruelty to either should be unacceptable. Most of all for money making ventures that also put humans at great risk.
You wouldnt put horses in a stable for the rest of their lives would you? Thats the same equivalent of putting an orca, a mammal used to roaming 100 miles a day in open ocean, into. And then when the horse starts getting soft in the head from it throw in the trainer for the circus act.
I remember looking into a chimps eyes the last time I was at the zoo. It wasnt like a dog or horse looking at you, honestly it was more like a person looking back at you. He gave me a look like, "who is this schmuck eyeballing me?". From all accounts a dolphin or orca is just as smart, or near enough, and self aware. I think that fact just makes all of this that much worse. Or maybe we are all hippocrates but does that justify keeping these animals in such conditions ?
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:cry sad movie. dont think ill be giving them any money. If my kids want to see some whales I tell them to get a job and we will go to washington and see them in the ocean. Fair enough.
(http://seaworldparks.com/~/media/seaworld_orlando_com_bak/Attractions/Exclusive%20Park%20Experiences/Penguins%20Up%20Close/TourPenguin_460x345.ashx)
Think this penguin might want to "play" with this kids eye ball?
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This reminds me.. new Game of Thrones trailer is out :aok
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This just in, mom impressed by penguin <other word for beak that the forum replaces with the word donut>.
Seriously though, orcas have been observed killing for fun. I'm surprised at the amount of sympathy for these god spited pariahs.
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I live literally 20 minutes from seaworld in orlando, pretty much every day the PETA group and whoever else is always protesting against Sea World. I also know 2 of the trainers for seaworld, both women are extremely bright and love their animals. Problem is, Seaworld is a business - whatever brings them money is good, however the actual care of the animals is appalling, the trainers know that but they lie to themselves and believe the animals are "better off".
This being said, honestly the problem is if the animal is born at Sea world, it doesn't know how to survive, if released back into the wild it would be killed because it wasn't born in the environment, instead its born in a holding tank. Honestly I have no opinion on sea world, from the trainers I know they generally care for the animals, the company however needs to stop putting profits first which will never happen.
They don't mistreat the animals that I know if, however if you are willing to get in a tank with a killer whale, good luck to ya and I hope you get paid enough to do that kinda crap.
/I wouldn't visit sea world because frankly I don't care, but the tree huggers can stop whining and go bother someone else, their relentless whining over stupid crap is really annoying. Imagine Jehovan witness coming to your door 4 times a week, "HI WE WANT TO SELL YOU RELIGION!" this is all PETA and the other protesters are trying to do, they have no solid evidence sea world "damages the animals" if they did sea world would of been closed a long time ago.
//I have horses in a ranch in montana, I guess because they are fenced in I am just like Sea world? LOL
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I'm guessing that you didn't watch the movie.
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I'm guessing that you didn't watch the movie.
Still waiting to see if its authentic or not before I rush to watch a propaganda film.
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Seriously though, orcas have been observed killing for fun. I'm surprised at the amount of sympathy for these god spited pariahs.
Humans do far worse. Nor has there ever been a recorded incident in the wild where an orca "kills for fun". The trainers killed? Who knows what caused it, but one has to consider being locked in, what amounts to, a closet for years on years would make a sentient creature go a little nuts. They are so big and powerful they very well didnt even know their actions would cause a death and there has never been a human killed by an orca in the wild.
This being said, honestly the problem is if the animal is born at Sea world, it doesn't know how to survive, if released back into the wild it would be killed because it wasn't born in the environment, instead its born in a holding tank. Honestly I have no opinion on sea world, from the trainers I know they generally care for the animals, the company however needs to stop putting profits first which will never happen.
They can put the captive orcas in actual sea envirements, surrounded by barriers, and either let them learn to survive or just plain release them and let them take their chances. Either is more humane then what they are doing. And it could happen, as quickly as a Judge pounding a gavel can make it happen.
They don't mistreat the animals that I know if, however if you are willing to get in a tank with a killer whale, good luck to ya and I hope you get paid enough to do that kinda crap.
You dont call that mistreatment? BTW An employer does have liability over what conditions it puts its employees in. Most of all when it covers up and doesnt tell its employees about them, like with this orca that killed those people. When they originally got him Sea World didnt tell any of its trainers the animal was a killer.
they have no solid evidence sea world "damages the animals" if they did sea world would of been closed a long time ago.
No other then 3 dead people and many injuries, as well as the opinions of many experts, they have "no solid evidence".
//I have horses in a ranch in montana, I guess because they are fenced in I am just like Sea world? LOL
Do your horses roam 100 miles a day, talk to each other, and live in very close family groups? I think the equivalent would be putting your horses in a stall for its entire life. Which would be cruel even for an animal thats not self aware like a horse.
Still waiting to see if its authentic or not before I rush to watch a propaganda film.
If your waiting for Sea Worlds reply your going to have a long wait.
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Humans do far worse. Nor has there ever been a recorded incident in the wild where an orca "kills for fun". The trainers killed? Who knows what caused it, but one has to consider being locked in, what amounts to, a closet for years on years would make a sentient creature go a little nuts. They are so big and powerful they very well didnt even know their actions would cause a death and there has never been a human killed by an orca in the wild.
This is speculation, "never been a recorded incident in the wild" - you mean there has to be a reported incident for it to be true/false? Does a tree fall in the woods make a sound? what if it wasn't recorded by two witnesses I guess it means trees don't make a sound when they fall, what about the Bermuda triangle? there are tons of things in life we haven't explained yet, just because an orca hasn't capsized a boat and killed the crew doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I agree locking someone up in a closet for years would make a human go nuts, but how do we know the creature went nuts? Problem is there is no scientific fact to say otherwise. We can't even understand the creature let alone decide whether its in a safe environment or not.
Yes my horses roam 12 acres of land, I put them in a barn only when bad weather approaches - generally they find their way home, kind of like my german shephard who roams as he pleases and comes home at night.
I'm not worried about Sea World, again its a business, however there is only one side to the story - whether an ORCA is a killer or not, this reminds me of a few years back when a neighbor down the road bought some horses, one kicked him in the stomach and it killed him - does this mean all wild horses are dangerous and they should not be owned? I've had mine 3 years now, and not one has been fussy at all, same for my German Shep - perhaps the way they get treated makes a difference, its tough to say I am not a doctor who specializes or a scientist in animal behavior, but I can say for fact my animals are tame as possible,
and I have no experience owning horses or dogs.
Sea World has its own explaining to do, whether they reply to the movie its a question they have to answer for themselves.
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This is speculation, "never been a recorded incident in the wild" - you mean there has to be a reported incident for it to be true/false? Does a tree fall in the woods make a sound? what if it wasn't recorded by two witnesses I guess it means trees don't make a sound when they fall, what about the Bermuda triangle? there are tons of things in life we haven't explained yet, just because an orca hasn't capsized a boat and killed the crew doesn't mean it didn't happen.
At this point of the game I think its pretty much safe to say its highly unlikely a orca will kill a human in the wild.
I agree locking someone up in a closet for years would make a human go nuts, but how do we know the creature went nuts? Problem is there is no scientific fact to say otherwise. We can't even understand the creature let alone decide whether its in a safe environment or not.
There never will be either, unless someone learns to speak orca. . But does that stop us from using common sense? That it is not a safe environment has been established as there has been dozens of incidents, attacks, and even deaths reported.
Yes my horses roam 12 acres of land, I put them in a barn only when bad weather approaches - generally they find their way home, kind of like my german shephard who roams as he pleases and comes home at night.
Sounds like your someone who should be showing empathy for the oracas kept in the bath tub then.
I'm not worried about Sea World, again its a business, however there is only one side to the story - whether an ORCA is a killer or not, this reminds me of a few years back when a neighbor down the road bought some horses, one kicked him in the stomach and it killed him - does this mean all wild horses are dangerous and they should not be owned? I've had mine 3 years now, and not one has been fussy at all, same for my German Shep - perhaps the way they get treated makes a difference, its tough to say I am not a doctor who specializes or a scientist in animal behavior, but I can say for fact my animals are tame as possible,
and I have no experience owning horses or dogs.
I guess Im just missing the analogy.
Sea World has its own explaining to do, whether they reply to the movie its a question they have to answer for themselves.
Which they arent! doing. Corporate spin isnt "explaining", in fact, they are refusing to even get involved in the discussion.
Merry X-mas to you and all.
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Just watched it.
These are wild animals designed to kill. Is it a shock? Then throw in these animals being in stressful situations, essentially solitary confinement, etc. I'm the exact opposite of a tree hugger, I'm not taking a PETA approach.
Good info and clearly this show engages from the bias of Sea World is at fault.
On another subject, do we still see lion tamers sticking their heads in the mouths of lions? Or, after enough attacks in cages have they stopped that? Just wondering.
Boo
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So!.......how do you feel about Bullfighting? or Rodeo? Circus?
Stab it a few times, make your self safer....... then go joust with it.
One could argue that rodeo bulls are trained just like fighting dogs....
How about traveling around the country in a cage on a train jumping out every 150 miles or so to do a show.
:cheers:
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Half of my family are hunters, trappers, etc. They have been around individuals killed by wolves (just a few times), killed and eaten by brown and polar bears, and when it comes to killer whales I've heard of them attacking and sinking small boats. I didn't read of the people being killed but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Clearly, those that lost the boat but weren't killed, lived to tell the tale. Those who were killed by the whales....didn't. I know, I've create an impossible situation though I would not be surprised at all to learn that it has happened.
boo
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So!.......how do you feel about Bullfighting? or Rodeo? Circus?
Stab it a few times, make your self safer....... then go joust with it.
One could argue that rodeo bulls are trained just like fighting dogs....
How about traveling around the country in a cage on a train jumping out every 150 miles or so to do a show.
:cheers:
A lot of cattle live in a confinement setting.
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Just watched it.
These are wild animals evolved to kill. Is it a shock? Then throw in these animals being in stressful situations, essentially solitary confinement, etc. I'm the exact opposite of a tree hugger, I'm not taking a PETA approach.
Good info and clearly this show engages from the bias of Sea World is at fault.
On another subject, do we still see lion tamers sticking their heads in the mouths of lions? Or, after enough attacks in cages have they stopped that? Just wondering.
Boo
Fixed that for you :aok
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Half of my family are hunters, trappers, etc. They have been around individuals killed by wolves (just a few times), killed and eaten by brown and polar bears, and when it comes to killer whales I've heard of them attacking and sinking small boats. I didn't read of the people being killed but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Clearly, those that lost the boat but weren't killed, lived to tell the tale. Those who were killed by the whales....didn't. I know, I've create an impossible situation though I would not be surprised at all to learn that it has happened.
boo
Well I heard people could be killed by Martians. Obviously those killed by Martians arent alive to verify it but it IS possible.
One boat I know of was rammed by an Orca. One! I think "most people" would say after thousands of boat/orca encounters the fact that only one was rammed would point to one confused orca. They do get screwed up by sonar in the water. As a general rule they dont mess with humans tho only a moron would jump in the water with one.
Tho none of this, wolves, boats, Martians, have anything to do with keeping Orcas in a bath tub for amusement and profit. The animals are simply to big for anyone to provide a stimulating environment for them to live in so they should all be let loose to take their chances in the wild.
I remember being down in Mexico when my wife was pregnant with my son. She wanted to swim with the dolphins but I wouldnt let her. I told her if she wanted to take her chances with a 600 lb fish with teeth then to do so AFTER my kid is out of her belly. As it turns out I was right. Years later it started leaking out how these dolphins at these tourist traps often attacked the stupid tourists who jumped in with them holding fish in their hand. I noticed how none of the Mexicans were jumping in and seemed to find it amusing the pale skins were.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/338398
http://dominicanwatchdog.org/page-Woman_attacked_by_dolphin_at_Manati_Park_in_Bavaro,_Dominican_Republic
http://luna.pos.to/whale/gen_art_killer.html
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did you see the size of that orca brain they put on the table? I would guess some intelligence would come of that. They talked how the social aspect of the brain was enlarged compared to humans.
I guess the guy was long term depressed and was a little volatile, especially after he learned how he could control his authority.
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A lot of cattle live in a confinement setting.
Cattle are a food source ........you have seen how they raise chickens...
The elephant in the room!
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Rich, really odd, meandering answer. And your point is....you've only heard of one attack by an Orca (which is apparently dispositive) while you've heard of plenty of dolphin attacks (which is also dispositive.)
It is impossible to prove a negative, in this case an unknown or unreported. I believe I was pretty clear in stating "I would not be surprised at all to learn..."
boo
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Never say never.
On September 9, 1972, a Californian surfer named Hans Kretschmer reported being bitten by a killer whale at Point Sur; most maintain that this remains the only fairly well-documented instance of a wild orca biting a human. His wounds required 100 stitches.
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Rich, really odd, meandering answer. And your point is....you've only heard of one attack by an Orca (which is apparently dispositive) while you've heard of plenty of dolphin attacks (which is also dispositive.)
It is impossible to prove a negative, in this case an unknown or unreported. I believe I was pretty clear in stating "I would not be surprised at all to learn..."
boo
Point is there have been none for Orcas in the wild. Deaths I mean. They are far less likely to kill a Human then, say, a jelly fish. For predators of that size that would point to a very high intelligence. My point was Orcas, like dolphins, like the great apes, are different kind of animals then others. They are far more intelligent, the kind of intelligence that should question the ethics of keeping them in small enclosures just for money.
But they are still wild animals. Predators! Sea Worlds assertion its safe to swim with them is just insane. There have been far more attacks by orcas in captivity then one. Do we really need experts to tell us caging them like that, tearing up their family groups like that?, is driving them nuts? Of course it is.
The thing about "experts" is all it takes is money to buy one. The anti's have their experts, Sea World has its experts, and that just leaves us with our common sense. Mine tells me the movie is right.
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The thing about "experts" is all it takes is money to buy one. The anti's have their experts, Sea World has its experts, and that just leaves us with our common sense. Mine tells me the movie is right.
Expert.. n. A person with more data than judgment. :old: :bolt:
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Still waiting shuffler for the "other side" of the argument.
Killer whales are not threatened, have never been hunted by man "except for display", there is no ecological reason to store them in animal parks. Like in zoos who have breeding programs for endangered animals as a hedge against extinction and to keep their genealogy strong. There is a stable population of over 50,000 orcas in the wild so why else would they capture them and keep them in bath tubs? Then break up what family they have to send them to other parks in order to sell even more Shamu stuffed animals? Did you even see that mother when they took her baby because the baby was causing problems with the circus act?
Hell, at least most zoos make an attempt to give their animals a habitat and stable life. At Sea World "The show must go on" so they throw these highly intelligent animals together, some of whom get injured and killed by other orcas because they dont have stable family units. So they are not only kept in bath tubs but also conditions that are brutal to them and totally foreign to their species.
Its really a disgusting story. Now this is a article I found that disputes in the film and its thesis http://melissaasmith.hubpages.com/hub/blackfish-film . In it, if you read it closely enough, the writer doesnt make one single point that makes any sense, or has any bearing. All he seems to say is "the producers are stupid animal lovers" and he continues to blather on with stuff like how we dont know if orcas will attack humans in the wild cause we havnt swam with them enough in the open ocean. WTF is he talking about?
Sure the film was made by the bambi crowd, who else is going to give a damn about these animals? At least enough to make the film. Heres the thing tho, Im a hunter/conversationalist, a guy who believes whales should be hunted as long as their populations are stable and strong, and I still agree with the Bambi crowd on this. I think it would be better to kill the orcas then keep them like this. And better still just let them live free and leave them alone. Cruelty to animals is mean spirited. Cruelty and greed is even worse. I piss on Sea World.
I said educate yourself. Try it..........
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I said educate yourself. Try it..........
Boy thats pathetic.
Were it I I'd just admit I made a mistake and the position of Sea World is immoral.
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Expert.. n. A person with more data than judgment. :old: :bolt:
Now I'm off in the weeds. What is an expert? Right now there are very solid theories of travel at speeds greater than light; alternative universes, to include a plausable theory that what we see and call space is in fact a hologram. If so, who is the man behind the curtain operating that machine?! Heck, I've even read of new theories, formulas and technology that challenges gravity, which should be the most solid truth in science.
I've heard that from the time a doctor graduates from university to the time they retire 40% of what they have been trained on and practice will prove to be inaccurate.
Experts are those that possess a great deal of knowledge that is likely mostly up to date. With Killer Whales, we know what we know until new information comes along. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they have in fact sunk small boats, killed people, etc. I have no evidence of it, just speculating.
All of this aside, I liked the movie. I know it is biased and there is always the other side of the story. Good information to process and debate to have.
boo
PS Off my soap box now...
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BlackFish did a good job of making Seaworld look bad, and I asked myself "is this the typical CNN chop piece, and is the truth someplace in the middle?" while watching it a couple months ago when it first aired. Now, rewatching it on Netflix, I still can't answer that, as like Rich pointed out, SeaWorld STILL hasn't responded to the allegations made in the documentary.
Where do we as humans draw the line? A: Animals are either here for us to use, or they aren't. B: Some animals have more "sentience" than others, or more "intelligence", and should be in a separate category, and treated accordinly C: Animals are all our equals, and we should just leave ALL of them alone.
If the case can be made that keeping Orca's in captivity is wrong, shouldn't the same be said for all the millions of horses kept in captivity? They are subject to the same breeding techniques as the whales, the same captivity in corrals, the same veterinarian procedures, the are separated from their young for breeding purposes, they are sometimes eaten, or sold to the glue factory, they are used in entertainment shows like rodeos, horses races, and hundreds of other things......
Don't get stupid, you need the horses or your dogs wouldn't have anything to eat.
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Boy thats pathetic.
Were it I I'd just admit I made a mistake and the position of Sea World is immoral.
I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.
Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.
Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?
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I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.
Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.
Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?
What is there to educate about SeaWorld. It's a corporation, it needs to make a profit to support it's Board and Stockholders. Stupid humans go look at wild animals held captive , because we are higher on the food chain and we have thumbs. Doesn't make it right. SeaWorld adds what to the world? Besides a lot of entry level jobs for high school kids, and lets not forget the animal trainers , I mean where would they get jobs without SeaWorld.
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I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.
You still havnt said wtf you educated yourself about you babbling nincompoop.
Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.
I went once and they didnt provide ANY information about them. They just took animals NOT endangered in the wild and put on a circus act with them for money. With the added excitement you might see one of their trainers dragged down and drowned. I guess thats part of the act.
One can eat whale, or seal, or dolphin, and still not want to see the critter kept in a bath tub until it goes nuts, "all for profit BTW". Not that anyone eats those critters except for eskimos but I'd bet they dont want them kept in bath tubs either.
Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?
No were all stupid so please tell us. A cow is a animal raised for food and not a very bright one either, unlike animals like Orcas which are self aware and have high intelligence and even talk to each other. In contrast a cow is pretty stupid. But nobody here is even talking about animals used for food right? Or should we "educate" ourselves over that too?
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You still havnt said wtf you educated yourself about you babbling nincompoop.
I went once and they didnt provide ANY information about them. They just took animals NOT endangered in the wild and put on a circus act with them for money. With the added excitement you might see one of their trainers dragged down and drowned. I guess thats part of the act.
One can eat whale, or seal, or dolphin, and still not want to see the critter kept in a bath tub until it goes nuts, "all for profit BTW". Not that anyone eats those critters except for eskimos but I'd bet they dont want them kept in bath tubs either.
No were all stupid so please tell us. A cow is a animal raised for food and not a very bright one either, unlike animals like Orcas which are self aware and have high intelligence and even talk to each other. In contrast a cow is pretty stupid. But nobody here is even talking about animals used for food right? Or should we "educate" ourselves over that too?
Dude go eat a granola bar and hug a tree.
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Dude go eat a granola bar and hug a tree.
Did you completely miss his point?
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Did you completely miss his point?
Apparently.
Nor do I think he knows me. Or knows the tree huggers and I usually dont see eye to eye.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/outdoors/kudu-1_zps88445707.jpg)
:rofl
That doesnt mean, however, we never would in the event of outright cruelty ; The cruel jailing of an intelligent species for the purpose of making $$ for some money grubbing BS corporation. The animals I take cleanly dont suffer and live wild and free. The Law, based on sound wild life management, dictates and controls my actions. Were it not for hunters and fisher persons there would be NOTHING left for the animals.
Piss on Sea World. And piss on their corporate BS.
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Overall I've really enjoyed this thread. Good points, for the most part.
On the one hand it would be great to not see the animals get abused, etc. On the other hand our world is about learning, experience, etc. And when it comes to most of these animals there would be no other way for millions of people to get to know and experience these animals. There is an irony I suppose. The more we get to know these animals the more sympathetic we are to their situation and likely the more useful we are in preserving them.
This is no different than the single greatest supporters of ducks are the duck hunters; of deer, the deer hunters; of elk, the elk hunters.
My final conclusion is that Killer Whales as a species are ultimately much better off with a hundred or so lingering in captivity. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect ethical behavior. And for anyone who sticks their head in the mouth of a lion...or goes swimming with a killer whale...not me!
boo
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My final conclusion is that Killer Whales as a species are ultimately much better off with a hundred or so lingering in captivity. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect ethical behavior. And for anyone who sticks their head in the mouth of a lion...or goes swimming with a killer whale...not me!
What nobody has told me is exactly how they are better off with 100 or so in captivity.
They are not endangered. Unlike endangered species kept in zoo's the captivity of them serves no purpose other then entertainment and monetary profit. If one wants to go see them swim around go on a whale watching trip and get to enjoy the animals wild and free.
The only concrete thing Sea World has said thats been achieved has been the design of a feeding device for babies. The price for that discovery has been rather high hasnt it? The cruel captivity of hundreds of orcas thru the years along with the reduced life spans from being captive, not to mention all the injuries to humans and death.
So "why" are they better off? And "what" exactly have we learned from them in captivity?
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You'd never catch a brother swimming around in a pool with killer whales, that's all I'm saying.
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What nobody has told me is exactly how they are better off with 100 or so in captivity.
They are not endangered. Unlike endangered species kept in zoo's the captivity of them serves no purpose other then entertainment and monetary profit. If one wants to go see them swim around go on a whale watching trip and get to enjoy the animals wild and free.
The only concrete thing Sea World has said thats been achieved has been the design of a feeding device for babies. The price for that discovery has been rather high hasnt it? The cruel captivity of hundreds of orcas thru the years along with the reduced life spans from being captive, not to mention all the injuries to humans and death.
So "why" are they better off? And "what" exactly have we learned from them in captivity?
The biggest impact of see world has been to spread a positive view of killer whales along with the movie "Free Willy"
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_9xyr2LpPEnHQGRzMEtkxIdSdOI1ZotAwC_7lHD4EnfzRA0v1-A)
:bolt:
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You'd never catch a brother swimming around in a pool with killer whales, that's all I'm saying.
Lol, you'll never catch one swimming. My best friend died 10 years ago of a heart attack. Before that I tried to teach him to swim for years and years. He fell out of the boat once in lake MI. while we were salmon fishing. Even with a life preserver on he went down and I almost lost him. I used to tell him it was futile and nature built him to sink not to swim but he kept trying. Died in his sleep at 56yo, 3 mos before retirement. Damn!
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/outdoors/contest_zpscea13110.jpg)
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The biggest impact of see world has been to spread a positive view of killer whales along with the movie "Free Willy"
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_9xyr2LpPEnHQGRzMEtkxIdSdOI1ZotAwC_7lHD4EnfzRA0v1-A)
:bolt:
"see World" keeping wide ranging orcas in bath tubs until they go bat crap and start eating their trainers??
Maybe Im missing the positivity. They created a BS image, based on Lies and innuendo, all for the noble cause of making a profit for their share holders.
Its a circus act. Who is to say they changed anyones view and what does it matter anyways? The animals are NOT endangered.
I think many, if not most, people just plain like the circus act. I guess their entertainment is more important to them then the welfare of the animals, tho they cant quite bring themselves to admit it. Instead they mouth Sea Worlds corporate spin in an attempt to justify their own amusement.