Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: colmbo on January 24, 2014, 02:55:44 PM
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The wife was in town getting her hair done so I was getting some quality time playing Aces High when the dog lets out her "I'm concerned, I think I heard something" woof. I live at the end of a street, semi-rural area. I can look out from the computer room to see the front gate (yard is fenced) and one of the greenhouses on the property. When I take a peek I see the door on the greenhouse is open. Crap.
Slip the boots and jacket on, grab the M4 and the phone and the dog and I go check it out to find some amazinhunk sorting through the wife's bottle collection! He was so intent looking through things he never saw or heard me coming.
I ask him what he's doing, he replies matter of fact like "Just looking around".
I respond with you're on my property, in my greenhouse…wtf are you doing here? I said it um, firmly. I've got the carbine at low ready, I'm old, ugly, I have pneumonia at present, I haven't shaved in a week and was using my best "I'm gonna mess you up" scowl.
He replied "Chill dude! No need to get all excited ya know." and he stepped toward me.
Really? Sometimes I really wish I lived in Texas. :)
I stepped back from the door, clicked the safety off and told him to "get the f&% off my property, if you come back I will shoot you"…the dog added a deep "Woof!" as an exclamation point. I gave him room to exit, he did and the whole time was giving me crap about what an a hole I am.
Frankly, the guy looked a bit whacko. Didn't seem high or drunk…just bat poop crazy. If someone confronted me while holding a gun I'd be a bit diplomatic in my dealings with them, not chipping my teeth the whole time.
This is twice now in a couple years I've run people off that were prowling around the property, just ordered a motion detector system to cover the approaches.
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I hope you also called the cops after.
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Oh yeah, that's why I took the phone with me. Normally I would have kept him there until the PD arrived…but this guy was whacko, I would have had to fight him…not worth the risk. PD got there quick , didn't find him but the officer I talked to thinks he might know who it is.
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Rock salt, dude... He'll think twice next time! :aok
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Simple motion detector lights will add some deterrent and easy to install. I use large dogs too. Several of them.
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in my state the 'wacko' could sue you for brandishing.
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in my state the 'wacko' could sue you for brandishing.
Because you live in a wacko state.
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Because you live in a wacko state.
+1
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well you handled the situation safely and nothing was stolen, but dam I have such anger towards thieves too bad you couldn't beat some sense into the guy. Really he was swearing at you while trespassing and at gun point?...the nerve of some people. :rolleyes:
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You should have shot him :old:
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You should have shot him :old:
some states are so bellybutton backwards I've heard stories of people attempting to break in and falling through the roof, the would be burglar then sues the owners. Even in the event of shooting a burglar if he does not die he can then come back and sue the owner. Personally in a ideal situation I'd like to beat a burglar so brain dead he couldn't tell the difference between night and a can of sphaggetti o's. good luck suing me then. errr I've been robbed, but never been in the house while they did it. burglars make me :mad:
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some states are so bellybutton backwards I've heard stories of people attempting to break in and falling through the roof, the would be burglar then sues the owners. Even in the event of shooting a burglar if he does not die he can then come back and sue the owner. Personally in a ideal situation I'd like to beat a burglar so brain dead he couldn't tell the difference between night and a can of sphaggetti o's. good luck suing me then. errr I've been robbed, but never been in the house while they did it. burglars make me :mad:
I know a guy doing life in prison for killing a burglar at 3 am in his own house....
he confronted the burglar and a fight broke out he grabbed a steak knife and killed the guy....
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(https://imageshack.com/i/jt54426732j)
(http://[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img713/5797/54426732.jpg) http://imageshack.com/a/img713/5797/54426732.jpg[/img]
'nough said!!
boo
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Sounds like a crack or meth head. In the future, have 911 on the phone so all you have to do is push dial when you confirm a suspect is present.
My bet is that he'll be back.
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(https://imageshack.com/i/jt54426732j)
(http://[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img713/5797/54426732.jpg) http://imageshack.com/a/img713/5797/54426732.jpg[/img]
'nough said!!
boo
squeeeeeel like a pig...... :rofl
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It's the perfect picture but I'm not able to actually post it....dang! (snap)
boo
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man thats crazy, "chill dude" hahaha thats pretty ballzy. we had a house right up the road from where I live that got robbed at night, the couple is and elderly couple who were asleep upstairs, they stiole EVERYTHING from downstairs, tvs, furniture, completely emptied the entire down stairs :O :mad: we had someone try to get into my garage during daylight hours, then the neighbors dirtbike was stolen and the cops didnt seem to care about any of it. Had a 15 year old punk steal the guy 2 houses down from me kids bicycle at 7 am a few weeks ago, my direct neighbor said him and his wife sat there watching him thinking he was waiting for a ride, the appears on a bicycle. the kids father then takes off down the road and catches him. he was ALREADY on probation :headscratch: why would people do this? I wouldnt do well with someone breaking into my house, you did quite well :salute :lol :aok
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You did good. No overreaction, no rising to his bait. Probably not a terrible idea to let him leave.
Outbuildings are a tough call to me. As far as I'm concerned though, castle doctrine should be universal. If you're in someone's house uninvited, it should be reasonably presumed you're there to do them harm and they should be able to defend themselves.
Glad it worked out, Col.
Wiley.
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What I heard from a long time ago was to post a "no trespassing" sign. This is suppose to help if unwanted persons venture on your property and try to sue for any injuries.
I would recommend a wireless motion detector and alarm base unit. They are fairly easy to install for under $100.
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man thats crazy, "chill dude" hahaha thats pretty ballzy.
Ranks right up there with, "Don't taze me bro!!!"
My dad is a retired AF colonel, flew C-130's in Vietnam. One time they were ordered to transport a mutinous platoon of South Vietnamese troops from A to B.
Well they got the guys on the plane, but one guy started inciting the others, the leader if you will. So my dad walks up to the guy, pulls his .38 revolver, and tells the guy to sit down or else. (They are still on the ground).
So what does this leader do. He looks right at my dad and says 'go ahead and shoot'. The lesson my dad told me he learned, 'Don't pull out my pistol unless I was going to use it'.
He holstered it and walked away, the MP's got the prisoners under control. He says he flew up to altitude and depressurized the back for a bit, problem solved.
Not the same as a creeper in your own backyard, but the story reminded me of it so I thought I'd share.
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I'm not a gun owner or anything, but I do think if someone breaks into my house and tries to threaten me I should be within my rights to kill or maim them. Especially with Kids in the house...
I keep a buck knife and a baseball bat handy just in case, but you can still get assault charges for defending yourself where I live.
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squeeeeeel for DADDY...... :rofl
FIXED. :D
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FIXED. :D
:D
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Sounds like a crack or meth head. In the future, have 911 on the phone so all you have to do is push dial when you confirm a suspect is present.
My bet is that he'll be back.
I would guess this as well. I don't think he wants to harm anyone, he just wants to fund his habit. That said, the last thing I would do is confront him without armament. Best you can do for yourself and your conscience is call cops when he returns. Maybe post a "dear intruder" sign at the place he was looking that this time you're not going to ask him to leave, you're going to call the cops immediately instead.
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claymore in the outbuilding? just saying :D
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I know what I am about to say is gonna hurt some feelings......
instead of calling the cops...........if he don't leave when you ask.....how about you walk up to him and elbow smash him in the face....no need to shoot..kill..him...especially if he is just some crack head....
life is precious...yes even that idiot crack heads life..ALL life is precious..unless he is trying to kill you...there is no need for that much force to be used...
people need to stop thinking the cops are there to "save" them....we as a nation have become fat and weak....
we need to take care of our own and stop relying on others for our protection....
we need to stop thinking that killing them is gonna make it better.....
Humans are a disgrace....for being such an "intelligent" species... we are the dumbest idiotic...selfish.....self serving holier then thow....know it all....no respecting...no honor....no righteousness....
I am honestly ashamed to call myself human.
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people need to stop thinking the cops are there to "save" them....
There is actually Supreme Court case law that makes it clear that police are NOT required to save people. It was a liability issue and in defense of law enforcement the argument was accepted: Police cannot be held to the standard of preventing violent acts. Sad but true, and it is common sense. In fact, did you know that when our country was founded there was not a police department as we know it? We had County Sheriffs though they existed primarily as a function of securing property and taxes and were a carryover from Old English Law. Think Robinhood, Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham and what he primarily did: collect taxes for the crown. If someone broke into your home and stole something you had to solve the crime yourself. This is the basis of the old "justifiable homicide" statutes.
boo
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I know a guy doing life in prison for killing a burglar at 3 am in his own house....
he confronted the burglar and a fight broke out he grabbed a steak knife and killed the guy....
Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
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Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
yea pretty harsh for self defense, I know of a guy who killed a person at their place of residence and received 15 years. I'm not sure how they figure those sentences. :headscratch:
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Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
I live in DC. Here, if you get mugged and somehow manage to beat the watermelon outta the guy, you can be charged with assault and battery.
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Glad I live out west. It's pretty much unthinkable that you would be charged for defending yourself out here in AZ. Maybe it it were proven you shot someone in the back when they were halfway out the door, but maybe not even then.
I think a lot of the cases where people get charged is when there are other circumstances beyond a complete stranger in your house. Someone you knew who you invited in and then had a fight with, etc.
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Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
somehow i think the same way, we didnt get the full story. perhaps it turns out that the burglar had give up and the homeowner decided to execute him.
I know a guy who did 10 years for getting high falling asleep and getting charged with manslaughter in his own house. you dont know the full story, so somebody will question the story. but the truth is that guy should have been shot for getting high and falling asleep in his house. a kid died.
semp
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You should have shot him :old:
This is not DayZ. KOS is not allowed.
He was on his property, swearing at him. The past week I've played 35 hours of DayZ. If I was the OP, I would be scraping the burglar's brains off the wall behind him.
You only have to play DayZ for so long before in real life you are so paranoid you peek around corners before you enter a building.
My instincts now are to fire at anything that moves. That game is unforgiving.
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Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
that happened in Mass.... :aok
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This is not DayZ. KOS is not allowed.
He was on his property, swearing at him. The past week I've played 35 hours of DayZ. If I was the OP, I would be scraping the burglar's brains off the wall behind him.
You only have to play DayZ for so long before in real life you are so paranoid you peek around corners before you enter a building.
My instincts now are to fire at anything that moves. That game is unforgiving.
Maybe you should play it less, that is a disturbing post. A gun is only as safe or deadly as the hand and the mental state that welds it. Real life is unforgiving real death is unforgiving a game is a game. A guy in my yard doesn't warrant a bullet, a guy in my house does.
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Maybe you should play it less, that is a disturbing post. A gun is only as safe or deadly as the hand and the mental state that welds it. Real life is unforgiving real death is unforgiving a game is a game. A guy in my yard doesn't warrant a bullet, a guy in my house does.
I agree that post was a bit...out there.... :rofl
but I must say a good arse whoppin to the guy in your house would probably work just as well...and wont leave you with guilt the rest of your life.....unless of course he is holding a gun himself.... then he gets what he brings....
I believe just because we "can" do something, does not always mean we should.....
and when it comes to taking another persons life....
that should be the absolute last resort...
except when it comes to...child rapists....rapists in general...murderers who kill for the fun of it.........and someone who commits Murder while doing a felony....these kinds of people should all be put down.....without hesitation....and without remorse.....
I also believe every American citizen should have in their house and carry on their person some form of firearm.
burglaries/thiefs/rapes would be a hell of a lot less if they knew every house they think about entering will be armed and ready to use it.
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Maybe you should play it less, that is a disturbing post. A gun is only as safe or deadly as the hand and the mental state that welds it. Real life is unforgiving real death is unforgiving a game is a game. A guy in my yard doesn't warrant a bullet, a guy in my house does.
DayZ Shows human nature in true form. And yeah, I wouldn't kill somebody for standing in my yard. Inside my house, armed, I'd fire.
But in DayZ you get killed over baked beans. That's ridiculous.
I'm perfectly fine. I know what's real and what isn't. DayZ is just a cruel game, where players are even more cruel to eachother. Zombies are just an added difficulty.
But as for paranoia, yeah I can thank DayZ for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU1E4jwquzU
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Colmbo, sounds like you did the prudent thing :aok
Nobody's stuff is worth losing their own life over, I know too well.
I lived in AZ most of my life, CO for the other part, and the state laws regarding such incidences can be as different as the scenery from one to the next. Best to know the laws, sounds like you do, and some others posting here don't.
In AZ it takes certain criteria to be met that are in some ways subjective to enable lawful use of deadly force. The two most important:
Imminent fear that the perpetrator may use lethal force.
Ability of the perpetrator to use lethal force; easily established if they are wielding a weapon.
In AZ, unlike many may think, we can not shoot someone just because they break and enter, they must be a lethal threat.
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Your kidding right???
Dang what "State" do you live in? New York?
No I know you must live in Chicago or Washington D.C. :old:
People kill bad guys all the time in self defense here and dont go to prison. It all depends on the circumstances.
Its a dang shame when a citizen gets charged for defending his family when a burglar breaks into his house. On the other hand lighting some bum up with a carbine whose trying to dig some tin cans out of your garbage for a bottle of cheap wine is unnecessary. You did right showing restraint.
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I watch crimminals getting owned all the time on youtube :old:
If I lived in the USA I would have big gun and a big tea service.
The benchmark for a decent person is are they fit to sit in your front room and have a cup of tea with your family :old:
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I think the law system is a bit messed up when, someone is in your home or property unwanted and if you give them an arse whoopin they can sue you. There was a case here in Vermont a couple years back that happened in Rutland where an elderly lady like 65ish or something dont remember heard a noise and grabbed a shotgun went to the living room found a man inside of her house shot him, didnt kill him, but now she is in prison, and he is free to walk around. That is NOT justice. Like was posted before, someone breaks into your home and cuts their hand on the broken glass they can sue you for that?? :headscratch: I have talked to cops here and they all have said, "you HAVE TO be able to PROVE that they were a threat to your life" well I guess I would have to put one of my kitchen knives in his hand afterwards :devil hahaha still cant get over the fact that he was swearing at you, that just blows my mind away :lol
except when it comes to...child rapists....rapists in general.
these types should get WAY worse than just put down
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Agreed nothing there to take a human life over,unless he continued to approach you. Taking a life is not easy to live with. When aluminum got so high for scrap value , someone was taking my gramps irrigation pipe. Me and my cousin caught the dewd and gave him the choice . We call the police, or you take the punishment we decide on. We trussed him up to the brush plate on my cousins 4x4 and ran it through a bunch of viney maple and just a dash of blackberry briars.
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The wife was in town getting her hair done so I was getting some quality time playing Aces High when the dog lets out her "I'm concerned, I think I heard something" woof. I live at the end of a street, semi-rural area. I can look out from the computer room to see the front gate (yard is fenced) and one of the greenhouses on the property. When I take a peek I see the door on the greenhouse is open. Crap.
Slip the boots and jacket on, grab the M4 and the phone and the dog and I go check it out to find some amazinhunk sorting through the wife's bottle collection! He was so intent looking through things he never saw or heard me coming.
I ask him what he's doing, he replies matter of fact like "Just looking around".
I respond with you're on my property, in my greenhouse…wtf are you doing here? I said it um, firmly. I've got the carbine at low ready, I'm old, ugly, I have pneumonia at present, I haven't shaved in a week and was using my best "I'm gonna mess you up" scowl.
He replied "Chill dude! No need to get all excited ya know." and he stepped toward me.
Really? Sometimes I really wish I lived in Texas. :)
I stepped back from the door, clicked the safety off and told him to "get the f&% off my property, if you come back I will shoot you"…the dog added a deep "Woof!" as an exclamation point. I gave him room to exit, he did and the whole time was giving me crap about what an a hole I am.
Frankly, the guy looked a bit whacko. Didn't seem high or drunk…just bat poop crazy. If someone confronted me while holding a gun I'd be a bit diplomatic in my dealings with them, not chipping my teeth the whole time.
This is twice now in a couple years I've run people off that were prowling around the property, just ordered a motion detector system to cover the approaches.
dam. glad it turned out ok. you'll be seeing him again though. you should held him for the police.
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some states are so bellybutton backwards I've heard stories of people attempting to break in and falling through the roof, the would be burglar then sues the owners. Even in the event of shooting a burglar if he does not die he can then come back and sue the owner. Personally in a ideal situation I'd like to beat a burglar so brain dead he couldn't tell the difference between night and a can of sphaggetti o's. good luck suing me then. errr I've been robbed, but never been in the house while they did it. burglars make me :mad:
in nj, if the intruder's on your property....like in that greenhouse, yuo have a duty to retreat. you could not have done anything other than call the pd in that situation. in the home......no duty to retreat.
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This is not DayZ. KOS is not allowed.
He was on his property, swearing at him. The past week I've played 35 hours of DayZ. If I was the OP, I would be scraping the burglar's brains off the wall behind him.
You only have to play DayZ for so long before in real life you are so paranoid you peek around corners before you enter a building.
My instincts now are to fire at anything that moves. That game is unforgiving.
you might wanna step away from the video game, and possibly even check yourself into a mental institution.
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I think the law system is a bit messed up when, someone is in your home or property unwanted and if you give them an arse whoopin they can sue you. There was a case here in Vermont a couple years back that happened in Rutland where an elderly lady like 65ish or something dont remember heard a noise and grabbed a shotgun went to the living room found a man inside of her house shot him, didnt kill him, but now she is in prison, and he is free to walk around. That is NOT justice. Like was posted before, someone breaks into your home and cuts their hand on the broken glass they can sue you for that?? :headscratch: I have talked to cops here and they all have said, "you HAVE TO be able to PROVE that they were a threat to your life" well I guess I would have to put one of my kitchen knives in his hand afterwards :devil hahaha still cant get over the fact that he was swearing at you, that just blows my mind away :lol these types should get WAY worse than just put down
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they will :aok
but that is not up to us...its up to us to make sure we send them to the one who will take care of the "punishment" except in today's society they are barely..... givin any time..... get out in short order...and while inside..if..... they go...... they are protected by the guards.....
there is something seriously wrong in a society that will send a man to prison for life for pot...but let a child rapist walk the streets.
and people wonder why I am so disgusted with this world and the people in it.
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Agreed nothing there to take a human life over,unless he continued to approach you. Taking a life is not easy to live with. When aluminum got so high for scrap value , someone was taking my gramps irrigation pipe. Me and my cousin caught the dewd and gave him the choice . We call the police, or you take the punishment we decide on. We trussed him up to the brush plate on my cousins 4x4 and ran it through a bunch of viney maple and just a dash of blackberry briars.
That was barbaric :old:
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Colmbo, sounds like you did the prudent thing :aok
Nobody's stuff is worth losing their own life over, I know too well.
I lived in AZ most of my life, CO for the other part, and the state laws regarding such incidences can be as different as the scenery from one to the next. Best to know the laws, sounds like you do, and some others posting here don't.
In AZ it takes certain criteria to be met that are in some ways subjective to enable lawful use of deadly force. The two most important:
Imminent fear that the perpetrator may use lethal force.
Ability of the perpetrator to use lethal force; easily established if they are wielding a weapon.
In AZ, unlike many may think, we can not shoot someone just because they break and enter, they must be a lethal threat.
In Arizona, the criteria is if the reasonable person would be in fear for his life or great bodily harm. You would not need to establish that an intruder had the means to kill you. Unless the intruder was an 8 year old boy, the fact that they broke into your house would generally be enough to escape charges.
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I agree that post was a bit...out there.... :rofl
but I must say a good arse whoppin to the guy in your house would probably work just as well...and wont leave you with guilt the rest of your life.....unless of course he is holding a gun himself.... then he gets what he brings....
I believe just because we "can" do something, does not always mean we should.....
and when it comes to taking another persons life....
that should be the absolute last resort...
except when it comes to...child rapists....rapists in general...murderers who kill for the fun of it.........and someone who commits Murder while doing a felony....these kinds of people should all be put down.....without hesitation....and without remorse.....
I also believe every American citizen should have in their house and carry on their person some form of firearm.
burglaries/thiefs/rapes would be a hell of a lot less if they knew every house they think about entering will be armed and ready to use it.
You don't really have the luxury to examine an intruder to decide whether you can physically over power him or not before taking action. I wouldn't necessarily consider it irresponsible to avoid the hesitation that might get you killed by a weapon you don't immediately see in the adreneline fuzzed dark.
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Glad it turned out ok Columbo. Bump in the night investigations can go horribly wrong sometimes.
As usual the Muppets have it right. A proper beat down or hlbly style run through the briar patch would be appropriate punishment for the transgression and tough guy attitude.
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Glad it turned out ok Columbo. Bump in the night investigations can go horribly wrong sometimes.
As usual the Muppets have it right. A proper beat down or hlbly style run through the briar patch would be appropriate punishment for the transgression and tough guy attitude.
Its shameful the law should deal out punishment, Hibly violated his human rights :old:
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you might wanna step away from the video game, and possibly even check yourself into a mental institution.
Let me clear this up a bit. No I would not have shot the guy. I stated that in the reply I had posted earlier.
Taking a human life is something I would never wish to do. I have encountered a problem like the OP's before. No I didn't shoot the guy. I told him to leave. If he didn't, I'd call the cops. He didn't.
I ended up calling the cops and they questioned him. The guy turned out to be completely wasted and was walking home. He got mixed up and somehow ended up in my yard. I went outside, and talked to him. I could tell he was hammered.
And when I said I have the instinct to fire at anything that moves, I was talking about playing DayZ. Not real life.
Don't suppose you mind if I ask, but have you ever played DayZ?
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You don't really have the luxury to examine an intruder to decide whether you can physically over power him or not before taking action. I wouldn't necessarily consider it irresponsible to avoid the hesitation that might get you killed by a weapon you don't immediately see in the adreneline fuzzed dark.
Not to mention once an intruder has entered your home he has made the commitment to the ultimate confrontation. He has now become an immediate threat not only to you but more importantly your family and the time for second guessing and mercy has passed.
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If possible, I would never approach a building from the perpetrator's only course of exit.
If there is a window, peek first and locate the perp and see if he is unarmed.
If he's unarmed, shine the light in a window opposite from the door......if there is a window.
When he runs out, break out the wrist rocket with some round salt pellets.........this will make him run faster when applied to the middle of the back.
Corporal punishment for the win.
Fire a few shots from a gun that go safely wide while yelling "I will slit your throat and drink your blood".
Start up vehicle and careen around as if hunting him down......he will surely hear it.
He will never return.
Remember, you are in alaska where gunshots are largely ignored.
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That was barbaric :old:
It was also a felony.
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well I cant really argue with that thinking....a mans home is his castle and we have the right to defend said castle...whether its against the "law" or not.
except........ most people who are "burglars" are just petty thief's.....they are not there to physically hurt you....most often crack heads looking for goods to sell....
that a b$tch slap....or 2...... will more then work on....
I have been in situations that required physical confrontations....many times......when I was younger I thought it was fine to do whatever....never second guessed my actions......I have never killed anyone..... yet my past actions haunt me to this day...I cant imagine what I would feel now if I knew I killed someone....who was not deserving of death.
not until I had kids did I realize that human life is precious....
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I have been in situations that required physical confrontations....many times......when I was younger I thought it was fine to do whatever....never second guessed my actions......I have never killed anyone..... yet my past actions haunt me to this day...I cant imagine what I would feel now if I knew I killed someone....who was not deserving of death.
Same here, in the confrontations where I came out ahead.. I always felt bad for the guy later. So I can't say I ever won a fight, I don't think anybody does. In the confrontations in which the other guy came out ahead.. I figured I had it coming to me. :D
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Same here, in the confrontations where I came out ahead.. I always felt bad for the guy later. So I can't say I ever won a fight, I don't think anybody does. In the confrontations in which the other guy came out ahead.. I figured I had it coming to me. :D
:salute
I agree no one wins a fight....but in this excellent book I read....it says "bruises will chase away demons" :D
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Great Title. :lol
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Not to mention once an intruder has entered your home he has made the commitment to the ultimate confrontation. He has now become an immediate threat not only to you but more importantly your family and the time for second guessing and mercy has passed.
Well said Shifty, I have never had to shoot anyone and God forbid I ever need to. However I believe IF it ever happened and I was forced into defending my Family, my Home, my property or my life, I would NOT loose one minute of sleep afterwards. I believe for any human, killing someone is easy, its the living with it that is hard.
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Well said Shifty, I have never had to shoot anyone and God forbid I ever need to. However I believe IF it ever happened and I was forced into defending my Family, my Home, my property or my life, I would NOT loose one minute of sleep afterwards. I believe for any human, killing someone is easy, its the living with it that is hard.
Yeah Jim, I hope none of us ever have to deal with this kind of thing. :aok
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The wife was in town getting her hair done so I was getting some quality time playing Aces High when the dog lets out her "I'm concerned, I think I heard something" woof. I live at the end of a street, semi-rural area. I can look out from the computer room to see the front gate (yard is fenced) and one of the greenhouses on the property. When I take a peek I see the door on the greenhouse is open. Crap.
Slip the boots and jacket on, grab the M4 and the phone and the dog and I go check it out to find some amazinhunk sorting through the wife's bottle collection! He was so intent looking through things he never saw or heard me coming.
I ask him what he's doing, he replies matter of fact like "Just looking around".
I respond with you're on my property, in my greenhouse…wtf are you doing here? I said it um, firmly. I've got the carbine at low ready, I'm old, ugly, I have pneumonia at present, I haven't shaved in a week and was using my best "I'm gonna mess you up" scowl.
He replied "Chill dude! No need to get all excited ya know." and he stepped toward me.
Really? Sometimes I really wish I lived in Texas. :)
I stepped back from the door, clicked the safety off and told him to "get the f&% off my property, if you come back I will shoot you"…the dog added a deep "Woof!" as an exclamation point. I gave him room to exit, he did and the whole time was giving me crap about what an a hole I am.
Frankly, the guy looked a bit whacko. Didn't seem high or drunk…just bat poop crazy. If someone confronted me while holding a gun I'd be a bit diplomatic in my dealings with them, not chipping my teeth the whole time.
This is twice now in a couple years I've run people off that were prowling around the property, just ordered a motion detector system to cover the approaches.
Just be careful. We had a psycho like that who went around slicing peoples car tyres on their yards. So the neighborhood got sick of him and a bunch of guys collected together and gave him a good beating.
The guy made a list of names (as we later found out), then waited untill his army recruitment started and when he was on his first guard duty he stole an assault rifle and a few clips of ammo. He started a murdering rampage where he systematically started killing everyone who had punished him. First two he killed with a crossbow and he got caught after he shot the first victim with the assault rifle. He was playing cat and mouse with the police, he even trained his german shepherd to attack the police. The police had to blockade all my neighborhood with armored vehicles and search him with helicopters. It took about 24 hours before they found him and caught him alive, about the longest 24 hours of my life.
You see our house was inside the blockade - so I had to walk home to take care of our 5 and 6 year old foster children only knowing there is an armed psycho hiding somewhere in the woods in the area lol.
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Just be careful. We had a psycho like that who went around slicing peoples car tyres on their yards. So the neighborhood got sick of him and a bunch of guys collected together and gave him a good beating.
The guy made a list of names (as we later found out), then waited untill his army recruitment started and when he was on his first guard duty he stole an assault rifle and a few clips of ammo. He started a murdering rampage where he systematically started killing everyone who had punished him. First two he killed with a crossbow and he got caught after he shot the first victim with the assault rifle. He was playing cat and mouse with the police, he even trained his german shepherd to attack the police. The police had to blockade all my neighborhood with armored vehicles and search him with helicopters. It took about 24 hours before they found him and caught him alive, about the longest 24 hours of my life.
You see our house was inside the blockade - so I had to walk home to take care of our 5 and 6 year old foster children only knowing there is an armed psycho hiding somewhere in the woods in the area lol.
That sounds like a Longmire episode.
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I think the law system is a bit messed up when, someone is in your home or property unwanted and if you give them an arse whoopin they can sue you. There was a case here in Vermont a couple years back that happened in Rutland where an elderly lady like 65ish or something dont remember heard a noise and grabbed a shotgun went to the living room found a man inside of her house shot him, didnt kill him, but now she is in prison, and he is free to walk around. That is NOT justice. Like was posted before, someone breaks into your home and cuts their hand on the broken glass they can sue you for that?? :headscratch: I have talked to cops here and they all have said, "you HAVE TO be able to PROVE that they were a threat to your life" well I guess I would have to put one of my kitchen knives in his hand afterwards :devil hahaha still cant get over the fact that he was swearing at you, that just blows my mind away :lol these types should get WAY worse than just put down
would you mind posting the story about the sweet old lady that went to jail for defending herself. as it seems way to far out there. I can tell you the story about an innocent guy who went to jail for 30 something years even though he was innocent.
here's the true about that story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IrCgt-Bt1I
semp
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Let me clear this up a bit. No I would not have shot the guy. I stated that in the reply I had posted earlier.
Taking a human life is something I would never wish to do. I have encountered a problem like the OP's before. No I didn't shoot the guy. I told him to leave. If he didn't, I'd call the cops. He didn't.
I ended up calling the cops and they questioned him. The guy turned out to be completely wasted and was walking home. He got mixed up and somehow ended up in my yard. I went outside, and talked to him. I could tell he was hammered.
And when I said I have the instinct to fire at anything that moves, I was talking about playing DayZ. Not real life.
Don't suppose you mind if I ask, but have you ever played DayZ?
the last thing i ever played before ah, was air warrior, and duke nukem. i'm dating myself a bit there. i'm not much of a video gamer.
if you feel that it's THAT violent though, that it may eventually effect your real life, yuo really should walk away from it. go outside, and do something. buy an old camaro or mustang, and spend the time working on that.
i carry at work about 50% of the time. i carry about the same at home. always concealed. at home, if it's not on my person, it's always within arms reach. i train as often as i can with them. i do this all in hopes that i will NEVER point any of my firearms at anything other than paper or steel. but i will NOT be a victim.
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If possible, I would never approach a building from the perpetrator's only course of exit.
If there is a window, peek first and locate the perp and see if he is unarmed.
If he's unarmed, shine the light in a window opposite from the door......if there is a window.
When he runs out, break out the wrist rocket with some round salt pellets.........this will make him run faster when applied to the middle of the back.
Corporal punishment for the win.
Fire a few shots from a gun that go safely wide while yelling "I will slit your throat and drink your blood".
Start up vehicle and careen around as if hunting him down......he will surely hear it.
He will never return.
Remember, you are in alaska where gunshots are largely ignored.
discharging a firearm like that will get one into serious trouble, even in free states.
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Same here, in the confrontations where I came out ahead.. I always felt bad for the guy later. So I can't say I ever won a fight, I don't think anybody does. In the confrontations in which the other guy came out ahead.. I figured I had it coming to me. :D
the few physical confrontations i've ever had that i came out ahead....i never felt bad for the guy. he started the crap. he did it to himself. he made the choice to lose those teeth, or to wake up in a different place than he was starting his crap. annnd he picked on me. the skinny quiet guy. because he thought the skinny quiet guy couldn't fight back. never feel bad for someone that starts that crap.
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would you mind posting the story about the sweet old lady that went to jail for defending herself. as it seems way to far out there. I can tell you the story about an innocent guy who went to jail for 30 something years even though he was innocent.
I have looked all over the net and cant find it, but I do remember it being in the paper, all of us at work thought it was pretty messed up.
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I stepped back from the door, clicked the safety off and told him to "get the f&% off my property, if you come back I will shoot you"…the dog added a deep "Woof!" as an exclamation point. I gave him room to exit, he did and the whole time was giving me crap about what an a hole I am.
Most excellent control under serious stress, Colmbo. Congrats. Hope it never happens to me, but that if it does I can maintain control like that.
- oldman
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the few physical confrontations i've ever had that i came out ahead....i never felt bad for the guy. he started the crap. he did it to himself. he made the choice to lose those teeth, or to wake up in a different place than he was starting his crap. annnd he picked on me. the skinny quiet guy. because he thought the skinny quiet guy couldn't fight back. never feel bad for someone that starts that crap.
You haven't had enough physical confrontations then. Nobody should go through life undefeated. ;)
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the last thing i ever played before ah, was air warrior, and duke nukem. i'm dating myself a bit there. i'm not much of a video gamer.
if you feel that it's THAT violent though, that it may eventually effect your real life, yuo really should walk away from it. go outside, and do something. buy an old camaro or mustang, and spend the time working on that.
i carry at work about 50% of the time. i carry about the same at home. always concealed. at home, if it's not on my person, it's always within arms reach. i train as often as i can with them. i do this all in hopes that i will NEVER point any of my firearms at anything other than paper or steel. but i will NOT be a victim.
I will probably give up on the game in a few days. I am quite tired of being shotten on sight by some guy with a Mosin.
I just like it for the survival aspect.
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Most excellent control under serious stress, Colmbo. Congrats. Hope it never happens to me, but that if it does I can maintain control like that.
- oldman
Eh, I was a cop for 20 years…not the first time I've confronted someone…and wouldn't have been the first time I shot at someone if it had gone that far.
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You haven't had enough physical confrontations then. Nobody should go through life undefeated. ;)
you misread what i typed sir. the "few" that i came out ahead. i got my arse handed to me more than my share of times. that is part of why i never felt sorry for those i bested.
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I will probably give up on the game in a few days. I am quite tired of being shotten on sight by some guy with a Mosin.
I just like it for the survival aspect.
then ditch the game, get a kit together, and go outside camping. :aok
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then ditch the game, get a kit together, and go outside camping. :aok
With a bit less of, you know? Starving to death? :D
Sounds like fun. I may just do that if I can find time.
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except........ most people who are "burglars" are just petty thief's.....they are not there to physically hurt you....most often crack heads looking for goods to sell....
that a b$tch slap....or 2...... will more then work on....
It's an individual thing, but not everyone is physically imposing enough to know that they can prevail in a fist fight with any intruder and there are some cases that if you assume someone is merely a crack head who means you no harm, your assumption will lead to your lifeless body being the only thing standing between an intruder and your family.
In a choice between possible harm to my family and the life of an intruder, my family is precious.
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If possible, I would never approach a building from the perpetrator's only course of exit.
If there is a window, peek first and locate the perp and see if he is unarmed.
If he's unarmed, shine the light in a window opposite from the door......if there is a window.
When he runs out, break out the wrist rocket with some round salt pellets.........this will make him run faster when applied to the middle of the back.
Corporal punishment for the win.
Fire a few shots from a gun that go safely wide while yelling "I will slit your throat and drink your blood".
Start up vehicle and careen around as if hunting him down......he will surely hear it.
He will never return.
Remember, you are in alaska where gunshots are largely ignored.
This is all rather silly and utterly unrealistic.
You shoot when you have to. You can't hesitate, or you very well may die. You don't bluff or bluster. No warning shots. You don't shoot to wound. You don't play games. Defending one's life is as serious as it gets. When seconds count, the cops are at least minutes away. Oh, and Colmbo, if you ever have to use a firearm to challenge a criminal again, safety off before your encounter them. Fine motor skills go to hell when the adrenalin is flowing. The only functions you want to have remaining to do is develop your sight picture and pull the trigger. And when you shoot, you continue to shoot until the bad guy is down and not moving.
I've had a few encounters where a firearm was needed to end trouble. Only once, when I was 12 (1965), did I have to discharge a weapon in the process of self defense. Now, nearly 50 years later, I still feel bad that circumstances forced me to do what I did. In that case, I was dealing with three older teenagers (the ring leader was 17) wanting to take my Crosman Model 99 .22 cal pellet rifle from me, on our own property. I refused to hand it over. My 8 year-old brother was with me, and he was very frightened. The oldest one threatened to take it and kick my butt. I figured I was going to get a beating if I didn't hand it over, and a sure fire whoopin' by dad if I did.. Choices... I aimed it at him and told him to leave. He laughed and asked, "Whadda ya goin' to do, shoot me?"
I made my choice.... I shot him in the thigh. Low power (450 fps). It hurt, a lot. He fell onto his backside and stared at his leg, the pellet no doubt having broken the skin. He looked at me. I cycled the lever and pulled the hammer back to max power (700 fps). I aimed at his face. "You better leave now", I told him. His friends pulled him to his feet, and they left. Out of sight, they yelled some insults. I fully expected a visit from the police. Didn't get one, though. I told my father what happened. He didn't get angry... "I guess you did what you had to do", he said. He told me not to venture away from the vicinity of the house with the Crosman. I didn't. Thereafter, I did my shooting behind the garage and not in our woods.
Not long after, walking home from school, I ran into Warren again, this time with just one friend. He ran his mouth. "You ain't got no gun now, do you?" "No", I replied, "but you know I'll go home and get it. Leave me alone, Warren." I turned and walked away. He ran his mouth some more as I left, but I ignored him and continued on my way.
The next year, my dad bought me a Marlin model 10, single shot bolt action .22 rifle. That, we shot in the garage or old barn on the corner of the property. Earned some money using it to shoot crows for the local farmer's bounty. I would sling it across my back, shove a box of 50 cartridges in my pocket and ride up the road to the farms, right past the school. No one looked at me twice. These days, there would be a SWAT team dispatched and helicopters circling.... How times have changed. Today, society is completely paranoid.
About a year and a half after this incident, Warren was drafted. He ended up in Vietnam. He returned with an severe alcohol habit, and literally drank himself into oblivion. In the late 1980s, at a backyard party, drunk to a near stupor, he dived into the shallow end of an in-ground pool and broke his neck. Paralyzed from the neck down, he died a couple of years later. A tragic figure, Warren was an example of how to do just about everything wrong.
In short, shooting someone is traumatic, for the shooter and the other guy. It's something you want to avoid if at all possible. You may be fully justified, but that will not change the fact of what happened. You hurt or killed someone, and that will follow you in your dreams forever. You learn to live with it, but you'll never be comfortable with it.
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In Arizona, the criteria is if the reasonable person would be in fear for his life or great bodily harm. You would not need to establish that an intruder had the means to kill you. Unless the intruder was an 8 year old boy, the fact that they broke into your house would generally be enough to escape charges.
That is true and not exactly true. A reasonable person needs to establish whether or not the perp intends to inflict great bodily harm, rape, etc. or use lethal force. It's subjective and a judgement call too. If said perp is has behaved in a way that would lead a reasonable person to fear for their life, etc., then it must be established why the person feared for their life. Usually that is, as I said, easily met if the perp has a weapon. If the perp did not possess the means, i.e. great size/strength advantage, the victim is elderly, injured, etc., making the claim you feared for your life is going to be met with, why/what made you fear for your life.
The reason I say in such indefinite terms is because this will (possibly) not be explained/discussed between the victim and an officer, and/or DA/CA. These explanations/terms are ones that are explained to a jury. The County attorney is not going to be asking you if you met all the criteria to fear for your life, they will determine that on their own. Nobody wants to be in the position where their defense attorney is arguing these points in court.
Attorneys live in the gray, law is not supposed to be gray, but inevitably it is as it depends on other people to interpret.
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It's an individual thing, but not everyone is physically imposing enough to know that they can prevail in a fist fight with any intruder and there are some cases that if you assume someone is merely a crack head who means you no harm, your assumption will lead to your lifeless body being the only thing standing between an intruder and your family.
In a choice between possible harm to my family and the life of an intruder, my family is precious.
I absolutely agree :salute
I would kill without hesitation to protect my family.This is all rather silly and utterly unrealistic.
You shoot when you have to. You can't hesitate, or you very well may die. You don't bluff or bluster. No warning shots. You don't shoot to wound. You don't play games. Defending one's life is as serious as it gets. When seconds count, the cops are at least minutes away. Oh, and Colmbo, if you ever have to use a firearm to challenge a criminal again, safety off before your encounter them. Fine motor skills go to hell when the adrenalin is flowing. The only functions you want to have remaining to do is develop your sight picture and pull the trigger. And when you shoot, you continue to shoot until the bad guy is down and not moving.
I've had a few encounters where a firearm was needed to end trouble. Only once, when I was 12 (1965), did I have to discharge a weapon in the process of self defense. Now, nearly 50 years later, I still feel bad that circumstances forced me to do what I did. In that case, I was dealing with three older teenagers (the ring leader was 17) wanting to take my Crosman Model 99 .22 cal pellet rifle from me, on our own property. I refused to hand it over. My 8 year-old brother was with me, and he was very frightened. The oldest one threatened to take it and kick my butt. I figured I was going to get a beating if I didn't hand it over, and a sure fire whoopin' by dad if I did.. Choices... I aimed it at him and told him to leave. He laughed and asked, "Whadda ya goin' to do, shoot me?"
I made my choice.... I shot him in the thigh. Low power (450 fps). It hurt, a lot. He fell onto his backside and stared at his leg, the pellet no doubt having broken the skin. He looked at me. I cycled the lever and pulled the hammer back to max power (700 fps). I aimed at his face. "You better leave now", I told him. His friends pulled him to his feet, and they left. Out of sight, they yelled some insults. I fully expected a visit from the police. Didn't get one, though. I told my father what happened. He didn't get angry... "I guess you did what you had to do", he said. He told me not to venture away from the vicinity of the house with the Crosman. I didn't. Thereafter, I did my shooting behind the garage and not in our woods.
Not long after, walking home from school, I ran into Warren again, this time with just one friend. He ran his mouth. "You ain't got no gun now, do you?" "No", I replied, "but you know I'll go home and get it. Leave me alone, Warren." I turned and walked away. He ran his mouth some more as I left, but I ignored him and continued on my way.
The next year, my dad bought me a Marlin model 10, single shot bolt action .22 rifle. That, we shot in the garage or old barn on the corner of the property. Earned some money using it to shoot crows for the local farmer's bounty. I would sling it across my back, shove a box of 50 cartridges in my pocket and ride up the road to the farms, right past the school. No one looked at me twice. These days, there would be a SWAT team dispatched and helicopters circling.... How times have changed. Today, society is completely paranoid.
About a year and a half after this incident, Warren was drafted. He ended up in Vietnam. He returned with an severe alcohol habit, and literally drank himself into oblivion. In the late 1980s, at a backyard party, drunk to a near stupor, he dived into the shallow end of an in-ground pool and broke his neck. Paralyzed from the neck down, he died a couple of years later. A tragic figure, Warren was an example of how to do just about everything wrong.
In short, shooting someone is traumatic, for the shooter and the other guy. It's something you want to avoid if at all possible. You may be fully justified, but that will not change the fact of what happened. You hurt or killed someone, and that will follow you in your dreams forever. You learn to live with it, but you'll never be comfortable with it.
:salute
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In my nation we aren't allowed firearms and are prosecuted for hurting anyone even in self defence.
However.
A police officer once told a guy who owned a shop before the universal firearms ban took place after the Port Arthur Shooting. (Australian Gun Control History)
"Shoot the *****er in the face, and then put a hole in the roof. You fired a warning shot... no one can tell which shot was which"
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In my nation we aren't allowed firearms and are prosecuted for hurting anyone even in self defence.
However.
A police officer once told a guy who owned a shop before the universal firearms ban took place after the Port Arthur Shooting. (Australian Gun Control History)
"Shoot the *****er in the face, and then put a hole in the roof. You fired a warning shot... no one can tell which shot was which"
I thought you were in Wisconsin, as I responded to in your thread :headscratch: Well that changes everything, TELL ON THEM, :old: Jus kddn. I guess I'm getting senile :rofl
Or maybe just crotchety in my mid years.
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I have a set of tea spoons and a old sock for defense :old:
You use maximum force and hope its enough :old:
If its scum your dealing with and he is despatched job well done :old:
And if a rich liberal starts complaining punch them in the balls :old:
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I live in Alaska as well Columbo, it's seems like there is an ever increasing amount of Scumbags running around. I have had people come in my house twice while I wasn't there. Cant wait till the day I am there and it happens, it will be a good old fashion Old West party then.
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The way I see it, the second someone makes a choice to threat you or invade your property he just lost all his human rights and became just a hostile force to be dealt with.
Zero compassion from me. The only thing that limits is your own liability.
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Fire a few shots from a gun that go safely wide while yelling "I will slit your throat and drink your blood".
Hahaha, that's funny. Don't forget the insane laugh as if you're really enjoying it. :devil
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Hahaha, that's funny. Don't forget the insane laugh as if you're really enjoying it. :devil
It would be even more fun if the gun jammed while doing that and the attacker would wield a knife at close range in response. :banana:
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I have a set of tea spoons and a old sock for defense :old:
You use maximum force and hope its enough :old:
If its scum your dealing with and he is despatched job well done :old:
And if a rich liberal starts complaining punch them in the balls :old:
that last one is great :rofl
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I live in Alaska as well Columbo, it's seems like there is an ever increasing amount of Scumbags running around. I have had people come in my house twice while I wasn't there. Cant wait till the day I am there and it happens, it will be a good old fashion Old West party then.
Had a burglar come in the house while I was home a few years ago. My basic plan worked then also, confront them, let them decide what comes next. He left a lot faster than he entered.
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Oh, and Colmbo, if you ever have to use a firearm to challenge a criminal again, safety off before your encounter them. Fine motor skills go to hell when the adrenalin is flowing. The only functions you want to have remaining to do is develop your sight picture and pull the trigger.
I'll leave the safety on until the rifle comes to my shoulder. It is the way I was taught and is the way I train/practice. While fine motor skills do deteriorate under stress training and practice, the development of muscle memory, can overcome that. You will do under stress what you have developed as muscle memory (which is why it is very important to train like you fight, fight like you train)
The safety on an M4/AR15 is much easier to operate than the retention devices on the l holster I carried on duty, I never had any issues drawing the weapon and did it under much greater stress than this encounter the other evening….I practice with the M4 nearly every day so I'm not concerned about being able to put it in action if needed.
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With a bit less of, you know? Starving to death? :D
Sounds like fun. I may just do that if I can find time.
you ain't gonna starve while your camping. if you can find time to play that video game, you can find time to go camping. or if you don't wanna camp, then just spend the day hiking somewhere.
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about 20 years ago I lived in Casa Grand Arizona....I had just gotten there 4 days pryer ....staying with my older sister and her husband...it was me the wife before she was the wife and our 1 year old daughter....I am 24 years old about 240 at the time and can do a full straddle easy...been out of prison a couple years and trying to do right..but the hatred and anger that was in my heart... was tangible...most will luckily never understand what that is like....
anyways day I get there, my sisters husband has an "individual" hanging out...I notice right away he is smoking all Dave's butts...his bud...and drinking all the beers he can...eating all their food....
you get the picture...he does this every day for 4 days...not once did he bring anything with him to contribute....
I have been holding back..... on the first day, hell with in a couple hours of meeting him I want to drive my fist through his face but because it is my sisters house I am trying to be nice....
but this guy just wont stop....everything that is talked about he has done the best...he is some kung fu expert....knows all kinds of martial arts...kicked 5 or more guys arse at the same time....
he doesnt realize what has been going on...how deeply I am getting in the anger....from his crap talking....
well a conversation comes up that he is some awesome Conga player...it just so happens my brother in law is a conga player has a sweet set...I say right to him...."am gonna put this mouth piece to the test...pull out your congas..."
so Dave pulls them out...I get up to them and start to beat on them fast and hard...but no beat of any sort I cant play for crap, but I have very fast hands so make it look good........well this guy gets up and is a complete moron and cant hit them at all....I am not kidding...he is literally licking his palms and tapping them...saying..."im out of practice"
I am done....I grab him by the face and shove him in a chair...say to him.."time for you to go" I am pacing now...I do that when angry.....he looks to Dave...Dave says "hey he is my brother in law" at this point I am out side in front of the house....here he comes....he actuall has the balls to walk up to me within a few feet...gets in some made up "karate" stance....his legs spread real wide squatting down arms raised above his head swinging them around...he says "kick me and ill break your leg...." he has no clue how close he is to death at this point....I say simply "ya MFer.... here it comes..." and step forward and straight snap kick him square in his chest....as hard and as fast as I can....(at 15 I was breaking 2by4s with a small side snap kick)....he immediately is thrown into the air flying backwards....while he is flying backwards I chase him down....as soon as he hits the ground I am on him...punching him in his face....one after another...at least 15 times.......a few head buts and elbow smashes....I forgot to mention...he has these nasty long dirty finger nails...well he reaches up and grabs my lower lip...I immediately sink my left thumb into his right eye...to the hilt...instantly he lets go...I put him into an anaconda choke and started to choke him out....I hear my sister and wife freaking out Dave is trying to stop me...I realize the guy is just about dead....I relax my grip and whisper in his ear..."if I see him again I wont stop next time"
I get up off him and walk away....
a couple days go by, I am driving down town in my Challenger...I look over and see this person....his entire face is black....and dark purple... one eye is completely closed and massively puffed up his other eye is barely open...he seriously looked like a hammer was smashed into his face repeatedly....
thats I think.... the first time I actually felt guilt for hurting someone... to be honest it wasn't much back then....
but yet I can still remember his name...Billy keys
trust me when I say you don't want the guilt that comes with those types of actions....which I carry way to many of.
edit
I was thinking...obviously this is different then an intruder in your house....
but I have learned Violence in any form other then righteous anger leaves a sour taste...and even then when you have to use it for a good cause it just feels wrong.
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Guilt is a strange thing... You can rationalize your choices and actions all you want, but it still there, waiting to pounce when you relax.
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Guilt is a strange thing... You can rationalize your choices and actions all you want, but it still there, waiting to pounce when you relax.
its like a hammer drill in my heart and mind every waking moment.
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I'd have shot him. Then put his head on a pike and planted it in the driveway near the road to let others know not to come this way.
Oh wait...I guess this is not an online game.
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I'll leave the safety on until the rifle comes to my shoulder. It is the way I was taught and is the way I train/practice. While fine motor skills do deteriorate under stress training and practice, the development of muscle memory, can overcome that. You will do under stress what you have developed as muscle memory (which is why it is very important to train like you fight, fight like you train)
The safety on an M4/AR15 is much easier to operate than the retention devices on the l holster I carried on duty, I never had any issues drawing the weapon and did it under much greater stress than this encounter the other evening….I practice with the M4 nearly every day so I'm not concerned about being able to put it in action if needed.
I understand this type of training. A good friend of mine was a small arms instructor for the Vermont State Police. Retired, he now works for a private firm, doing the same type of training. The police have certain liabilities that civilians don't. More than the military as well. Thus, they train a bit differently than the military, with greater emphasis on caution. I was trained that when I expect a confrontation, safety off, finger alongside the trigger. One need only to bend the finger. Why safety off? Because, a potential adversary just 6 feet distant can cover that distance in the time it takes to operate the safety and shoot. Less than a second. Muscle memory is great, but time is the most uncontrolled factor. You go through a door and the bad guy is four feet away... Time becomes THE major factor.
Nonetheless, you're better off doing what you've been trained for. Besides, circumstances will always vary and no one can tell you what to do if not actually in your situation.
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You go through a door and the bad guy is four feet away... Time becomes THE major factor.
Nonetheless, you're better off doing what you've been trained for. B
Oh heck yeah. Going to a known threat such as an entry the safety would be off. Same on high risk traffic stop, etc.
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You go through a door and the bad guy is four feet away... Time becomes THE major factor.
did you ever think that the best option is not going thru the door?
semp
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did you ever think that the best option is not going thru the door?
semp
evil thrives when good man do nothing.
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evil thrives when good man do nothing.
sometimes waiting for the guy to come thru the door is better than you going thru the door not knowing that the bad guy is waiting for you.
ink you are a hard azzz thinking that you have to go thru the door to kick azzz. but that isnt the smart thing to do in every situation is it?
semp
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The wife was in town getting her hair done so I was getting some quality time playing Aces High when the dog lets out her "I'm concerned, I think I heard something" woof. I live at the end of a street, semi-rural area. I can look out from the computer room to see the front gate (yard is fenced) and one of the greenhouses on the property. When I take a peek I see the door on the greenhouse is open. Crap.
Slip the boots and jacket on, grab the M4 and the phone and the dog and I go check it out to find some amazinhunk sorting through the wife's bottle collection! He was so intent looking through things he never saw or heard me coming.
I ask him what he's doing, he replies matter of fact like "Just looking around".
I respond with you're on my property, in my greenhouse…wtf are you doing here? I said it um, firmly. I've got the carbine at low ready, I'm old, ugly, I have pneumonia at present, I haven't shaved in a week and was using my best "I'm gonna mess you up" scowl.
He replied "Chill dude! No need to get all excited ya know." and he stepped toward me.
Really? Sometimes I really wish I lived in Texas. :)
I stepped back from the door, clicked the safety off and told him to "get the f&% off my property, if you come back I will shoot you"…the dog added a deep "Woof!" as an exclamation point. I gave him room to exit, he did and the whole time was giving me crap about what an a hole I am.
Frankly, the guy looked a bit whacko. Didn't seem high or drunk…just bat poop crazy. If someone confronted me while holding a gun I'd be a bit diplomatic in my dealings with them, not chipping my teeth the whole time.
This is twice now in a couple years I've run people off that were prowling around the property, just ordered a motion detector system to cover the approaches.
Too bad the dog didn't get a piece before he left. :D
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evil thrives when good man do nothing.
Good men can keep guard outside the door and call police. Old chinese proverb.
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Good men can keep guard outside the door and call police. Old chinese proverb.
:rofl
dogs are for keeping "guard"
Man are for action..... ;)
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If there is something happening that is illegal or just morally wrong.... and you have the power to either prevent it or stop it... and don't. I would feel ashamed.
Simply an opinion.
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If there is something happening that is illegal or just morally wrong.... and you have the power to either prevent it or stop it... and don't. I would feel ashamed.
Simply an opinion.
nicely said :aok
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If there is something happening that is illegal or just morally wrong.... and you have the power to either prevent it or stop it... and don't. I would feel ashamed.
Simply an opinion.
In many countries and possibly in some US states your options to legally try to stop it are extremely slim. It has often happened that the person attempting to prevent a crime or stop the perp has got much worse punishment than the criminal. So now people pretty much just look the other way and possibly call the cops.
In my f***ed up country if a gun owner for example uses his weapon to threat a criminal and the criminal does not wield a similar weapon himself, it's considered as excessive force and may lead to loss of the carrying permit.
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nicely said :aok
I would beat you in a good looks competition :old:
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I would beat you in a good looks competition :old:
I don't know...been told by many a woman...im a looker :D
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Outstanding! :old:
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I don't know...been told by many a woman...im a looker :D
I think you misunderstood.. I think they said Hooker
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In many countries and possibly in some US states your options to legally try to stop it are extremely slim. It has often happened that the person attempting to prevent a crime or stop the perp has got much worse punishment than the criminal. So now people pretty much just look the other way and possibly call the cops.
In my f***ed up country if a gun owner for example uses his weapon to threat a criminal and the criminal does not wield a similar weapon himself, it's considered as excessive force and may lead to loss of the carrying permit.
new jersey is one such state. if you read some of the laws here, you'd think you left America.......
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If there is something happening that is illegal or just morally wrong.... and you have the power to either prevent it or stop it... and don't. I would feel ashamed.
Simply an opinion.
Boy some of the little anecdotes and chivalrous statements in this thread want to make me leave my cornflakes on my keyboard. I can tell most of you have never been involved in anything or had your fingers burned even once.
Do you guys think the system will really treat you fairly, or hang a medal on your chest, if you cap someone in a shooting you could have easily avoided?
Look at the legal Hell ole Billy Bob went thru in TX. when he got pissed off and back shot the two illegals who trashed his neighbors unoccupied house? Or ole Georgie who whacked the black kid in FL. ? Is that really something you want to go thru?
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:rofl
dogs are for keeping "guard"
Man are for action..... ;)
I've known a few dogs that might take exception to this comment Ink!!! :rofl
Or did you forget that dogs were often buried with full honours alongside thier handlers?
My neighbours Mastif while a good guard dog is not to be messed with because if he takes action there would be little a human could do to stop him,short of a 44 to the head!
:salute
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Boy some of the little anecdotes and chivalrous statements in this thread want to make me leave my cornflakes on my keyboard. I can tell most of you have never been involved in anything or had your fingers burned even once.
Do you guys think the system will really treat you fairly, or hang a medal on your chest, if you cap someone in a shooting you could have easily avoided?
Look at the legal Hell ole Billy Bob went thru in TX. when he got pissed off and back shot the two illegals who trashed his neighbors unoccupied house? Or ole Georgie who whacked the black kid in FL. ? Is that really something you want to go thru?
right now, i live alone. mom's moving back up here permanent as of march. our laws here in pfrnj are VERY restrictive. i know full well that i will be arrested, and go through the court system for discharging my firearm at another human being. if someone came through my front door, and it was shoot em, or mom gets hurt......they'll be getting a few ballistic tipped .45acp rounds. i'll take my chances. she is the only family member that's still alive that has always stood by me, whether i was right or wrong, even when she probably shouldn't have. i will defend her with whatever means necessary, and take my chances in the court system.
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right now, i live alone. mom's moving back up here permanent as of march. our laws here in pfrnj are VERY restrictive. i know full well that i will be arrested, and go through the court system for discharging my firearm at another human being. if someone came through my front door, and it was shoot em, or mom gets hurt......they'll be getting a few ballistic tipped .45acp rounds. i'll take my chances. she is the only family member that's still alive that has always stood by me, whether i was right or wrong, even when she probably shouldn't have. i will defend her with whatever means necessary, and take my chances in the court system.
Relax Cap. I never said you couldnt blow away anyone threatening Mommie.
I would however avoid taking the head off the 14yo kid stealing the neighbors bike with your Deer rifle.
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I've known a few dogs that might take exception to this comment Ink!!! :rofl
Or did you forget that dogs were often buried with full honours alongside thier handlers?
My neighbours Mastif while a good guard dog is not to be messed with because if he takes action there would be little a human could do to stop him,short of a 44 to the head!
:salute
:rofl
that is true Stubby was a Dog of action for sure :salute (my point was you cant rely on a dog for action and we as men need to take action)
on another note....I recently got a AmStaff puppy, my daughter gave her to us...what a smart little girl she is....
I was reading some more and found a real good site with a good history....hell I have read so much already...but I was under the impression that the "Bull Terrier" hasn't been used for fighting in a long time....well that is not true at all :O
another name for the Bull terrier(for those of you who don't know which one that is, its the short egg shaped head terrier) is the "Badger terrier"....and back in the 20's this was the premiere dog to use against Badgers which as we all know lb for lb is the most viscous animal there is....
the Badger Terrier was used in Lots of early breeding in creating the APBT....didn't know that ether...
the site wasn't just talking smack it had lots of pics of the "Badger Terriers" showed the pedigree of early APBT and AMStaff..and the breeding of the Badger Terriers into the APBT lines..which all early American Staffordshire Terriers were actually APBTs.....and were full fledged fighting dogs.....
now a days the AmStaffs are no longer those same dogs due to the breeding for the show ring for the last 70 plus years...and these are what are called "Pitbulls" in reality are so far removed from the pitbull line to be completely different digs.
another cool bit...
the name "Pittbull" actually comes from when they first started coming to this country they were called "Pit Bulldog" eventually they became Pitdog...or "PitBull" and finally "American Pit bull Terrier"
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Relax Cap. I never said you couldnt blow away anyone threatening Mommie.
I would however avoid taking the head off the 14yo kid stealing the neighbors bike with your Deer rifle.
you misunderstand. all i ever wanna shoot is paper n steel. nothing else. i have no desire to ever point my firearms at another human, much less fire it. but i will shoot to stop the threat. as far as neighbors? if i leave my property with my firearms not packed as per federal transport laws, i become an instant felon, thus i would never consider what you posted above.
and it's not mommie....it's mom. the only family member that i could count on that's still alive. she has no one else to depend on. my brother's turned into pretty much a dirtbag, with his attitudes. she needs someone to count on, and apparently that is me.
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I think you misunderstood.. I think they said Hooker
:rofl :rofl :neener:
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It is said Rich, that men and women don't try to be heroes, sometimes it just turns out that way.
If someone needs help or an injustice is happening, you help. Its not a question of should or could or would.
And no, its not some overzealous chivalry that I am touting. It is what I was brought up with. You help those who can't help themselves, you listen to those who need to talk, and you take action when words aren't enough.
And for your information I used to work the night shift at a "pro"M"inent" fast food chain" in a dodgy part of town. I've had to deal with a lot more than burnt fingers. Even saved a life one night. As well as had to wade into a fist fight between my manager and a drunk violent customer. Anyone who has worked an overnight at a service job knows what I mean.
I just think if everyone showed a little bit more understanding, and showed the same kind of spirit, America, Australia, and many other countries are built on. Then maybe it would be better.
Then again I am a naive "liberal" idealist. So I shall brace myself for the onslaught.
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It is said Rich, that men and women don't try to be heroes, sometimes it just turns out that way.
If someone needs help or an injustice is happening, you help. Its not a question of should or could or would.
And no, its not some overzealous chivalry that I am touting. It is what I was brought up with. You help those who can't help themselves, you listen to those who need to talk, and you take action when words aren't enough.
And for your information I used to work the night shift at a "pro"M"inent" fast food chain" in a dodgy part of town. I've had to deal with a lot more than burnt fingers. Even saved a life one night. As well as had to wade into a fist fight between my manager and a drunk violent customer. Anyone who has worked an overnight at a service job knows what I mean.
I just think if everyone showed a little bit more understanding, and showed the same kind of spirit, America, Australia, and many other countries are built on. Then maybe it would be better.
Then again I am a naive "liberal" idealist. So I shall brace myself for the onslaught.
Lol, I have been in four separate shooting incidents. And God knows how many fights, and car chases, and all kindacrap. There is a reason I dont tell stories, or make silly idealistic proclamations, or proclaim to the world what I'd do if my Mum was threatened. Such things are nothing but hot air, not worth the bytes on the screen.
You do what you have to do. And you either do it or you dont, and you might not even have a chance should you have to. One thing you shouldnt do is blabber about it in nonsensical internet stories. Cause you just plain dont control everything.
See this guy http://www.odmp.org/officer/19442-police-officer-richard-m-francis He was my partner. He mowed down all kinda commies on a 'nam river boat and he ended up dieing when a woman got his gun and blew his face off.
You think your in total control but your not. And you sure as hell dont impress anyone with any sense or experience. You'd be much more cynical if you did and you sure as hell wouldnt talk about it.
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Lol, I have been in four separate shooting incidents. And God knows how many fights, and car chases, and all kindacrap. There is a reason I dont tell stories, or make silly idealistic proclamations, or proclaim to the world what I'd do if my Mum was threatened. Such things are nothing but hot air, not worth the bytes on the screen.
You do what you have to do. And you either do it or you dont, and you might not even have a chance should you have to. One thing you shouldnt do is blabber about it in nonsensical internet stories. Cause you just plain dont control everything.
See this guy http://www.odmp.org/officer/19442-police-officer-richard-m-francis He was my partner. He mowed down all kinda commies on a 'nam river boat and he ended up dieing when a woman got his gun and blew his face off.
You think your in total control but your not. And you sure as hell dont impress anyone with any sense or experience. You'd be much more cynical if you did and you sure as hell wouldnt talk about it.
where did you spend your time as a LEO?
Aces High is great...... brings people together from all walks of life....
I have gathered from what you say on the boards(and for the most part I take people at there words) that you would have been a decent cop,and did it for the right reasons.....
if I thought different I would definitely tell ya so :salute
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And if a rich liberal starts complaining punch them in the balls :old:
:rofl :aok
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You did the exact same thing I would do.. you introduce yourself with the M4 and tell him to get off your property.. that is strike one and two for the attitude my curious neighbor.. He already knows the deal, and I don't think he will be coming back to your greenhouse..
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And if a rich liberal starts complaining punch them in the balls :old:
Rich liberals have no balls.
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See this guy http://www.odmp.org/officer/19442-police-officer-richard-m-francis He was my partner. He mowed down all kinda commies on a 'nam river boat and he ended up dieing when a woman got his gun and blew his face off.
You think your in total control but your not. And you sure as hell dont impress anyone with any sense or experience. You'd be much more cynical if you did and you sure as hell wouldnt talk about it.
Finally, something from Rich I completely agree with. Life is strange, and although you can manage risk to the absolute best of your ability - in hindsight - you can never factor out random occurrences or just "bad days". My best friend was a scout sniper with the USMC right at the pointy end of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and had already spent time in Afghanistan prior to that. He had dozens and dozens of engagements, been in hundreds of gunfights, and was one of the best guys I've ever operated with, and went through my instructor rating courses at SigSauer Academy with him. A very, very tough operator. I also worked in the same private military company with him.
He was very switched on, not the type of guy you would expect to make a mistake and put himself in a vulnerable position, but he did one day, after surviving a half dozen trips into the mid east in the most dangerous places on earth, he stepped into a bad spot and got clipped by a drunk driver while on a stop in California with the CHP, where he took work after retiring from our business. He just went to a place he was trained not to, and that day the risk management ran out on him, and there was a moving car coming at him. The driver was drunk, but still in his lane when he struck Brent. Even though it was the drunk drivers fault, it was a preventable incident, and shouldn't have happened the way it did. That's the hardest part to swallow. The toughest and most experienced among us can and do still make mistakes, and sometimes pay for them.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/18422-officer-brent-william-clearman
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my dad has always told me to think really hard before I kill anything, once its dead there is no bringing it back. He said the hardest thing he has ever had to do was to kill another human being, and then the first one always returns in your dreams to haunt you. that being said, he was in Vietnam and it was kill or be killed, and still he said the first one always haunts you the most. I am not sure what I would do if confronted with a situation, I mean if my family was indanger yeah, but otherwise itd be tough
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Well Homer thats why training is so important. Even if your not "in the Bizz" there are first rate training academys available for armed citizens. And many citizens, far more then a lot of my co-workers, keep up their skills after receiving this training. The entire reason for training is so's you dont have to over-think anything. You just react the way you have been trained. Why do you think so many POs never move when they are in a gunfight? Because the only shooting training they have ever had has been standing flat in shooting stalls for qualification.
Should you get in a shoot situation you may find out it isnt so much morality that wont let you loose as it is the fact you have problems EVER getting out of condition A again. That is what causes PTSD. Not having to go into action, which when it happens is actually a relief, its the fact that it happening again may only a minute away, or a radio call away, and the fact that you always have to be ready for it. As is the fact that you know deep down there may be nothing you can do to survive and that sometimes its just the luck of the draw. Compound that by months and years and before you know it you may start showing symptoms.
Thats why front combat soldiers are only combat effective for so long and why the Officers try to rotate them off the line if for even a short time.
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Should you get in a shoot situation you may find out it isnt so much morality that wont let you loose as it is the fact you have problems EVER getting out of condition A again. That is what causes PTSD. Not having to go into action, which when it happens is actually a relief, its the fact that it happening again may only a minute away, or a radio call away, and the fact that you always have to be ready for it.
Do you have reference material for this statement? Specifically, that this is what causes PTSD?
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a single incident will cause ptsd.
semp