Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Slade on January 25, 2014, 08:31:55 AM
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According to how our ranking system works. The skill required to get kills in this:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/La-7.jpg)
Is not different than the skills required to get kills in THIS:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/p-40.jpg)
If rank significantly factored in what plane you use it would have meaning...but it doesn't. I wish it did.
Slade :salute
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You and me both, bro.
The fact that some banana in a La7, Tempest, P51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, F4U, or other such easy mode plane gets the same score as someone who gets kills in a P40x, P47x, 109G, 190, or other such plane with a much smaller tool belt is very misleading. I don't know how HTC would do it, but linking the plane to the ranking system would shake things up in a major way. We'd see a huge shift in which planes seen in the virtual skies of AH, the score hoars would have to up in a 20+ and 30+ ENY aircraft from time to time in order to keep their rank.
Ultimately, I think the ranking system should be thrown out anyways. If anything, figure out how to tie perks earned to rank. Then that fellow flying the P40, zeke, etc, would get their due. As will the fellow flying the Boston III, He111, G4M, B25, etc. As it is, the Lgay, P51D, other such easy mode plane circle jerk will continue. Sad it is.
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According to how our ranking system works. The skill required to get kills in this:
who ever said the rank system in fighters was supposed to represent skill? I always assumed it was effectiveness at getting kills.
anyway, to get the effect you want, you could replace kills/sortie with perks earned/sortie..
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The simplest way to implement would be to add ENY/Kill to fighter score. Every kill in a numerically higher ENY plane would help boost your score.
For example: A player with 99 kills in a P-40C and 1 kill in a Tempest would have a ENY/Kill of almost 40. Another player with 99 kills in a P-51D and 1 kill in a C.202 would have an ENY/Kill of barely over 5.0. The first player would have a higher fighter rank, all else being equal.
Another worthy score parameter to include would be Assists/Death, meaning the average number of players required to kill you. If you normally are easily bested by any pilot in a fair fight, your Assists/Death would be close to 0. Now if you are flying into clouds of red or are simply very good, it will take more pilots to bring you down. The higher the number, the better your score.
Kills/ENY and Assists/Death, added to the other fighter score parameters, would more realistically represent skill in the MA.
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Have fun with the arguments about what the actual ranking of each airplane should be. It will be fun for endless debate/arguing/shouting/whining.
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According to how our ranking system works. The skill required to get kills in this:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/La-7.jpg)
Is not different than the skills required to get kills in THIS:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/p-40.jpg)
If rank significantly factored in what plane you use it would have meaning...but it doesn't. I wish it did.
Slade :salute
Indeed. Rank = completely meaningless because of this.
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Sorry but it's just not that simple.
A guy flying Spit XVI's in one on ones all day isn't likely as skilled as another flying the same plane into a sea of red and landing an occasional kill and I don't see any way that can be measured through stats.
If we follow that line of reasoning a guy who fly's a P-40 with altitude looking only for lower, unaware pilots is not as skilled as the fight at all costs Spit XVI pilot in the example above.
I'm afraid that any attempt at ranking by percieved plane difficulty will result in more players in higher ENY planes flying more timidly than they do now in their lower ENY planes.
How about instead of worrying about what others fly we worry about how we get more of them to fight?
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Have fun with the arguments about what the actual ranking of each airplane should be. It will be fun for endless debate/arguing/shouting/whining.
No doubt, but it would still be better than the current score setup. At least this would encourage more people to get out of their crutch rides from time to time.
Sorry but it's just not that simple.
A guy flying Spit XVI's in one on ones all day isn't likely as skilled as another flying the same plane into a sea of red and landing an occasional kill and I don't see any way that can be measured through stats.
If we follow that line of reasoning a guy who fly's a P-40 with altitude looking only for lower, unaware pilots is not as skilled as the fight at all costs Spit XVI pilot in the example above.
I'm afraid that any attempt at ranking by percieved plane difficulty will result in more players in higher ENY planes flying more timidly than they do now in their lower ENY planes.
How about instead of worrying about what others fly we worry about how we get more of them to fight?
And the Spit XVI pilot chimes in. :lol
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at what point in your fantasy world did you come up with this....lets look at the real world. in real military,rank and promotions are NOT entirely based on performance. in sports rank or value is NOT based solely on performance.....if it did, no great player would ever be traded unless he was injured. in the work place position(rank) and pay are NOT based soley on performance....just ask any multi-million dollar exec at a large company, and the guy on the line who is doing the work and who comes up with a million dollar idea.. about the pay scale. face it,life is not fair. and in this GAME there is already a system in place that addresses your question....its the perk point system.....kill a me262 in a ki-43 get more perks than kill a ki-43 in an me262. you get perk points. perk points dont have a bearing on rank. no one is making your fly the planes or gv's...its YOUR choice. why should you be rewarded with a higher rank when you can choose what plane or gv you are using?
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I expect those that routinely fly La7s, Spit16s and the like to find every possible reason to not adjust the rank system based on the wish. Take everything out of context to find a context to support their erroneous point of view.
Hey, you can still fly uber planes. Rank would just be better aligned with ACM skill. Nothing more.
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And the Spit XVI pilot chimes in. :lol
Spit IX. Get it right.
And BTW this system would benefit me greatly. What's the IX? 15 ENY?
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easy to game...up a P40 fly in the gang and vulch...you are the bestest...... :rock :rock :rock :rock :rock
it does not matter what someone flies....it matters HOW someone flies.
people fly the P40....P39...and stay in the green gang....how does that make them better?
one suggestion so far was a very good one.....
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Another worthy score parameter to include would be Assists/Death, meaning the average number of players required to kill you. If you normally are easily bested by any pilot in a fair fight, your Assists/Death would be close to 0. Now if you are flying into clouds of red or are simply very good, it will take more pilots to bring you down. The higher the number, the better your score.
Kills/ENY and Assists/Death, added to the other fighter score parameters, would more realistically represent skill in the MA.
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According to how our ranking system works. The skill required to get kills in this:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/La-7.jpg)
Is not different than the skills required to get kills in THIS:
(http://www.michael-elliott.com/images/p-40.jpg)
If rank significantly factored in what plane you use it would have meaning...but it doesn't. I wish it did.
Slade :salute
the skill needed to pick and vulch in an la7 is not really that different that picking in a p40.
semp
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there could be a population modifier.. front end just counts the number of enemy vs friendly in range and adjusts either perks or score points.. if theres 20 friendly and 2 enemy, you'd get less than the opposite.
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the skill needed to pick and vulch in an la7 is not really that different that picking in a p40.
semp
Whatever you've been smoking please share. You're fooling yourself if you think any of the P40's can match the ability of the La7 to "pick and vulch". I'm not sure if the P40 can match the La7 in anything. But in terms of what is needed to pick-n-vulch: Dive? Firepower? Roll? Stability? Climb? Recovery and reset? Granted, the first attack pass may be similar in aircraft performance, but from there the La7 leaves the P40 in the dust.
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Whatever you've been smoking please share. You're fooling yourself if you think any of the P40's can match the ability of the La7 to "pick and vulch". I'm not sure if the P40 can match the La7 in anything. But in terms of what is needed to pick-n-vulch: Dive? Firepower? Roll? Stability? Climb? Recovery and reset? Granted, the first attack pass may be similar in aircraft performance, but from there the La7 leaves the P40 in the dust.
nope, the ability of the pilot to select the right moment is equal in every plane. unless of course you are using something that only has 2 bb mg's then it's different.
semp
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definitions:
all you need to pick is a friendly to keep the enemy occupied. that's what picking is. killing a guy who was occupied with someone else.
bnz'ing/bouncing/jumping is not picking.
vulching is not picking.
so, 4 p40's against 1 la7, the la7 is going to get picked more than likely.
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the skill needed to pick and vulch in an la7 is not really that different that picking in a p40.
semp
I absolutely disagree.....
to a point you may be correct in the sense that ACM is the same in all planes....if you were eluding to that...the timing and actual ACM used will be different depending on the plane and situation...but a spit S is a split s no matter what you are flying...
but no way in hell is someone in a P40 going to be able to vulch an enemy field...with uppers at the same success rate someone in a LA 7 is going to have......or fight the gang in a 1vs many....as easily as a spit or LA or KI84.
absolutely not.
again I say it does not matter what one flies but HOW one flies....
you can be a tard just as easy in a P40 then you can a LA7
definitions:
all you need to pick is a friendly to keep the enemy occupied. that's what picking is. killing a guy who was occupied with someone else.
bnz'ing/bouncing/jumping is not picking.
vulching is not picking.
so, 4 p40's against 1 la7, the la7 is going to get picked more than likely.
would you like to place a wager on that :t
1 LA7 is more than a match for 4 P40s.
of course depending on situation...is the LA7 stall fighting one already lo and slow on the deck and three come in....or does the LA7 see 4 cons ahead of him and have time to execute a plan?
there is a huge difference in those 2 particular planes...the LA7 is so far beyond the P40s capabilities
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Have fun with the arguments about what the actual ranking of each airplane should be. It will be fun for endless debate/arguing/shouting/whining.
They're already roughly ranked via ENY, and we already argue about that.
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Oh, we certainly can argue much more about it, once ENY becomes important and we dweebs gravitate to the 'sweet spot' ENY 15-20 fighter ;)
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Oh, we certainly can argue much more about it, once ENY becomes important and we dweebs gravitate to the 'sweet spot' ENY 15-20 fighter ;)
Yeah, it could lead to all the highest-scoring pilots being 109-K dweebs.
Wait... :D
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We already have a perk system where you get more perks if you fly a high ENY aircraft, then you can take a nice perked plane and get your rank up flying that.
Now...if you choose to fly an older/less capable aircraft it will be harder for you to get as many kills as everyone else and therefore harder to get a good rank (if that's what you care about). The fact is that you were the one who chose to fly a less capable aircraft, it's your problem, the ranking system doesn't need to be redesigned just because you like to call people in La-7s "gay."
Can you imagine an advertisement in the USAAF in 1945, "if you successfully escort the B-17s to Berlin in a P-40 rather than a P-51 we will make you a general tomorrow." Right.....
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I absolutely disagree.....
to a point you may be correct in the sense that ACM is the same in all planes....if you were eluding to that...the timing and actual ACM used will be different depending on the plane and situation...but a spit S is a split s no matter what you are flying...
but no way in hell is someone in a P40 going to be able to vulch an enemy field...with uppers at the same success rate someone in a LA 7 is going to have......or fight the gang in a 1vs many....as easily as a spit or LA or KI84.
absolutely not.
again I say it does not matter what one flies but HOW one flies....
you can be a tard just as easy in a P40 then you can a LA7
would you like to place a wager on that :t
1 LA7 is more than a match for 4 P40s.
of course depending on situation...is the LA7 stall fighting one already lo and slow on the deck and three come in....or does the LA7 see 4 cons ahead of him and have time to execute a plan?
there is a huge difference in those 2 particular planes...the LA7 is so far beyond the P40s capabilities
exactly but that's my point . using the word "pick" is not derogatory, IMO. some people think "vulch" is not derogatory.
some people take both as derogatory. some people redefine them.
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Really isn't complicated. ANY rank/score system that doesn't factor in the plane you fly as the baseline = a pretty fubar'd system.
AH ranking, therefore = fubar'd and meaningless
Nothing more to argue about, move along.
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True anyone can get a kill in any plane but...
<<<<<sssSSSLLLAAAPPP!!!!>>>>> Sorry, I had to wake you up. jk
It is not easier to get a kill in a P-40e than an LA7\Spit16. Maybe even more significant, you have a far greater chance of surviving more diverse negative situations in an LA7\Spit16 than a P-40e. THAT is why the rank infatuated use LA7s\Spit16s and the like.
In the words of many a great wise man...DUH!
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Whatever you've been smoking please share. You're fooling yourself if you think any of the P40's can match the ability of the La7 to "pick and vulch". I'm not sure if the P40 can match the La7 in anything. But in terms of what is needed to pick-n-vulch: Dive? Firepower? Roll? Stability? Climb? Recovery and reset? Granted, the first attack pass may be similar in aircraft performance, but from there the La7 leaves the P40 in the dust.
semp is correct, the skill level needed to "pick and vulch" in a P-40 is the same as that of an La7, which is the same as any other plane.
ack-ack
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In the words of many a great wise man...[/b]!
Me?
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Really isn't complicated. ANY rank/score system that doesn't factor in the plane you fly as the baseline = a pretty fubar'd system.
AH ranking, therefore = fubar'd and meaningless
Nothing more to argue about, move along.
Seems Hitech is placing the proof of burden on the pilot to prove how good he is in the MA. Not try to create a metric to some how magically determine your base ACM ability as a parallel path to achieving the No1 fighter rank.
Over the last decade all of these almost exactly the same requests have been for Hitech to come up with a way to rank the No1 fighter in the MA by a DA metric. Including not having to land your kills but, the understanding that somehow Hitech knows you are good enough to do that if you wanted to because the metric would show it.
I thought you guys had the DA and KOTH and the Dueling Ladder to prove to each other how big yours is.
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I thought you guys had the DA and KOTH and the Dueling Ladder to prove to each other how big yours is.
Just stating the obvious. What comes of it from there *shrug*, makes no differnce to me. Doesn't matter how bad, or good, HTC wants to make a ranking system, I won't be participating in it. Last time I did that was in the very early 90's in AW when I decided I wanted to win a camp....hehe, and it cost about $500 of GEnie time to do it. Once was enough, scores haven't interested me in the last 2+ decades since.
But that doesn't negate the OP's original point. He's spot on.
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semp is correct, the skill level needed to "pick and vulch" in a P-40 is the same as that of an La7, which is the same as any other plane.
ack-ack
the actual "skill" to do it...I can see that.......but I think you need less skill to do those acts in the LA7 then the P40....
you have to admit someone in the LA7 will do better IE have better results....live longer and escape if he wants to... then the same guy in a P40.
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I thought you guys had the DA and KOTH and the Dueling Ladder to prove to each other how big yours is.
yep and when the results of those proved Un-satisfactory on to the next bright idea.
I just look forward to a day when the preachers stop preaching and we all get along and have fun without the name calling and whining. :D
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Until we perk the pilot, we will see mainly late 44-1945 birds in LWA.
Doing so will have the unfortunately effect of killing the revenue for HTC.
Any veteran pilot can do well in a LA-7, not so many can do likewise in a Hurricane-1 many VS many typical dogfight in LWA.
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FWIW the ranking system is clearly about results not method.
The logic from the OP would also require that scores were biased by ride type an possibly pay load choice when considering attack, bomber and vehicle scores.
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FWIW the ranking system is clearly about results not method.
The logic from the OP would also require that scores were biased by ride type an possibly pay load choice when considering attack, bomber and vehicle scores.
Why would that be a bad thing? Score directly relates to rank. Why shouldn't #1 actually be the "best"?
The more categories used to determine score, the more difficult it is to game.
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Did I say anything was good or bad?
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I think it would be easy. Just using current evy. So the difference in eny ='s a score. In these example winner is first eny given: 5eny vs 5eny= 1 30eny vs 5 eny =25. 5eny vs 30eny = .166
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Perhaps rank is overrated and it is the pursuit of rank that is the issue here.
If I can kill something in my Hurri 1 I'm happy! :cool:
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Why not hide the scores from the players until the tour is over?
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The simplest way to implement would be to add ENY/Kill to fighter score. Every kill in a numerically higher ENY plane would help boost your score.
For example: A player with 99 kills in a P-40C and 1 kill in a Tempest would have a ENY/Kill of almost 40. Another player with 99 kills in a P-51D and 1 kill in a C.202 would have an ENY/Kill of barely over 5.0. The first player would have a higher fighter rank, all else being equal.
Another worthy score parameter to include would be Assists/Death, meaning the average number of players required to kill you. If you normally are easily bested by any pilot in a fair fight, your Assists/Death would be close to 0. Now if you are flying into clouds of red or are simply very good, it will take more pilots to bring you down. The higher the number, the better your score.
Kills/ENY and Assists/Death, added to the other fighter score parameters, would more realistically represent skill in the MA.
only half the story. ENY you kill and ENY you fly both count. Perks does that calculation already. Just ADD PERKS earned to the Rank score. :salute
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at what point in your fantasy world did you come up with this....lets look at the real world. in real military,rank and promotions are NOT entirely based on performance. in sports rank or value is NOT based solely on performance.....if it did, no great player would ever be traded unless he was injured. in the work place position(rank) and pay are NOT based soley on performance....just ask any multi-million dollar exec at a large company, and the guy on the line who is doing the work and who comes up with a million dollar idea.. about the pay scale. face it,life is not fair. and in this GAME there is already a system in place that addresses your question....its the perk point system.....kill a me262 in a ki-43 get more perks than kill a ki-43 in an me262. you get perk points. perk points dont have a bearing on rank. no one is making your fly the planes or gv's...its YOUR choice. why should you be rewarded with a higher rank when you can choose what plane or gv you are using?
Because Perks are not a reward if you don't fly perk planes. :salute