Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: doright on February 12, 2014, 09:51:33 AM
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Last night I was attacking a set of very high very fast bombers. It struck me after several passes that the pilot of the bombers may have been deliberately turning tight to sling his drones out of formation so they would repeatedly warp on their way back into formation with the lead. I also observed one convenient warp on the lead's part too, but I didn't film it and I have insufficient evidence to say anything other then a networking glitch (leaving open what caused the glitch) threw off my attack.
Needless to say drone warping is a serious problem for an attacker. Destroying an attack run but still being exposed to defensive gunner fire is bad. Drones warping into your plane and causing you to collide is intolerable. This includes the warp that occurs when the lead plane is destroyed and the pilot takes command of a drone.
If the pilot was intentionally using drone warping as a defense then that is just gaming the game and shouldn't be tolerated. I wish that HiTech would take a look at the drone code to make them always fly like airplanes rather then warp capable starships. In addition it would be good if instead of warping the drones when the lead is destroyed something similar to the disco code could be used so the drone is flown over to the pilot's location (or vice-versa) then the pilot re-takes command.
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I dont know what you mean by "warping" but violently maneuvering your Bomber and drones is a perfectly acceptable way to help defend yourself.
All the years Ive been here your the only one Ive ever seen whine about it. intolerable
? :lol
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I dont know what you mean by "warping"
He means exactly that ... drones are warping all through the sky, jumping repeatedly from spot to spot. It's induced by high speed maneuvers. The drone you are aiming at will just jump out of your gunsight, or may even randomly 'collide' with you.
The bomber pilot himself can not see this behaviour, it's all created on the other players FE.
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I dont know what you mean by "warping" but violently maneuvering your Bomber and drones is a perfectly acceptable way to help defend yourself.
All the years Ive been here your the only one Ive ever seen whine about it. ? :lol
If a bomber is separated a fair distance from the drones, sometimes on their way back to formation they warp. I generally see them warp a few plane lengths at a time when it happens. When you shoot down the lead, the plane the pilot gets switched to quite often warps as well. When you're in close this can be very annoying and cause collisions.
My solution for avoiding the second situation is to attack the right one, then the left one, then the remaining one if I'm concerned about it. This way, the pilot doesn't get switched to other planes, and also the drones don't shift positions in the formation resulting in warping.
Slight histrionics on the part of the OP, but if they could make the drones behave better in this regard, I'd be all for it.
Wiley.
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He means exactly that ... drones are warping all through the sky, jumping repeatedly from spot to spot. It's induced by high speed maneuvers. The drone you are aiming at will just jump out of your gunsight, or may even randomly 'collide' with you.
The bomber pilot himself can not see this behaviour, it's all created on the other players FE.
And it SUCKS! I generally don't attack bombers, because I am terrible at attacking bombers. It's not only in high speed maneuvers; it also occurs if you turn too sharply for your drones to keep up with you. I, too, have fallen victim to the warping drone syndrome. :bhead :cry
#S#
Josh
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And it SUCKS! I generally don't attack bombers, because I am terrible at attacking bombers. It's not only in high speed maneuvers; it also occurs if you turn too sharply for your drones to keep up with you. I, too, have fallen victim to the warping drone syndrome. :bhead :cry
#S#
Josh
I only attack bombers if Banshee has softened them up first. :D
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I only attack bombers if Banshee has softened them up first. :D
Or when they're already focused and engaged on me :bhead It's a fair trade-off. I make great bomber bait, you make great fighter bait :D
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All the years Ive been here your the only one Ive ever seen whine about it?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,287949.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,74549.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,341604.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357263.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,245957.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,294948.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284521.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,136648.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,282368.0.html
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I believe there is another way a bomber pilot can warp his AI wingmen. I do not fly bombers so I can't say for sure. But, I know bomber pilots can fly their planes from outside using F3 while in flight, which I think should be disabled, and using scripted commands can maneuver their AI wingmen through different formations at some distance. I personally came upon 2 bombers flying at 3k or so AGL and began to attack, they warped away, then I noticed the lead plane flying NOE and maneuvering his AI wingmen around as decoys. I don't know what the distance limit is for AI wingmen but I have seen them many K away from the leader.
NT
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drones warp... drones disappear magically or get beamed from 1k behind of the lead plane directly to the formation position..... get used to it..
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But, I know bomber pilots can fly their planes from outside using F3 while in flight, which I think should be disabled, and using scripted commands can maneuver their AI wingmen through different formations at some distance.
:huh
I don't believe it works that way in any capacity. They react to your maneuvering, that's about it.
Wiley.
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drones warp... drones disappear magically or get beamed from 1k behind of the lead plane directly to the formation position..... get used to it..
Fighters warp... fighters magically get beamed from 2k at your 9 to 200 yds dead astern, cannons thumbing away, and your bomber explodes raining pixel debris all over your screen... still want to get used to it???
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Or when they're already focused and engaged on me :bhead It's a fair trade-off. I make great bomber bait, you make great fighter bait :D
DOH! Touche.... Them red guys love me alot or I just can't stay out of trouble. :lol
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... violently maneuvering your Bomber and drones is a perfectly acceptable way to help defend yourself.
I'm use to bombers turning to throw off an attack run or delay your pulling in front of them. What made me suspicious about the maneuvers the B29 formation did last night was the timing and direction was not consistent with achieving either of those goals. So it appeared to me the only advantage he gained by the maneuver was to deliberately sling out his drones, losing effective defensive fire from them, so they would have to warp back to him.
...Slight histrionics on the part of the OP...
Yep, I'm well known for being too emotional and dramatic.
The above should paint a clearer picture of why I decided to post after thinking about it for awhile. At the same time I guess it also illustrates that my OP was somewhat lacking.
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Ok, so you go in, get their attention and soften them up. I'll finish them off for you.
Hear it all the time on squad channel. :neener:
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I've adjusted my attacks to compensate for warpy drones. I generally will attack the drones first to avoid the dreaded drone warp collisions. Occasionally I will attack the lead plane first if I think he's just about to drop. Instead of killing the lead plane, I will take one of his wingtips off. This will usually throw off his aim and let me pass his formation before he can bail and another drone warps into the lead. Warpy drones is a PITA but can be worked around.
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I've adjusted my attacks to compensate for early drones. I generally will attack the drones first to avoid the dreaded drone warp collisions.
But they still warp out of your gunsight :old:
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:huh
I don't believe it works that way in any capacity. They react to your maneuvering, that's about it.
Wiley.
These are the AI wingman commands available in Warbirds, I wrongly assumed they would be in AH as well.
http://www.jg-51.com/misc/aicommands.html (http://www.jg-51.com/misc/aicommands.html)
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You really need more explanations ?
I mean its 110% obvious that warping your drones is a game glitch some use to defend themselves the lame way.
He means exactly that ... drones are warping all through the sky, jumping repeatedly from spot to spot. It's induced by high speed maneuvers. The drone you are aiming at will just jump out of your gunsight, or may even randomly 'collide' with you.
The bomber pilot himself can not see this behaviour, it's all created on the other players FE.
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But they still warp out of your gunsight :old:
They sometimes do but, as pro bomber killers like you and myself know, it just takes a minute to reset for the next pass. I haven't seen any guys who have been able to get drones to warp on command. Although it sucks when they do warp, I try to write it off the same way I do the collision model which kills me far more than the drone warp and can't be mitigated.
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i usally attack the rh bomber or the center one..but usally get shot down any way
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I only attack bombers if Banshee has softened them up first. :D
:)
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He means exactly that ... drones are warping all through the sky, jumping repeatedly from spot to spot. It's induced by high speed maneuvers. The drone you are aiming at will just jump out of your gunsight, or may even randomly 'collide' with you.
The bomber pilot himself can not see this behaviour, it's all created on the other players FE.
I still dont quite understand but if anyone thinks Im going to sit in the #1 Bomber, flying straight and level, to make an even easier target to shoot down? They are nuts. Ive attacked groups of bombers too and never seen the drones dissapear or do anything weird like that. Sounds like a connection issue. If anybody rams a bomber, for whatever reason, then its their fault. The fighter has every advantage in maneuverability and speed.
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I still dont quite understand but if anyone thinks Im going to sit in the #1 Bomber, flying straight and level, to make an even easier target to shoot down? They are nuts. Ive attacked groups of bombers too and never seen the drones dissapear or do anything weird like that. Sounds like a connection issue. If anybody rams a bomber, for whatever reason, then its their fault. The fighter has every advantage in maneuverability and speed.
Bombers do have 1 thing no fighter has, guns that will reach out 1.5k.
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I still dont quite understand but if anyone thinks Im going to sit in the #1 Bomber, flying straight and level, to make an even easier target to shoot down? They are nuts. Ive attacked groups of bombers too and never seen the drones dissapear or do anything weird like that. Sounds like a connection issue. If anybody rams a bomber, for whatever reason, then its their fault. The fighter has every advantage in maneuverability and speed.
Sorry but your limited experience doesn't negate the observations of others.
As far a maneuvering, turn all you want. Much of the time you'll present a much better target to me, while making your defensive gunnery harder, make your drone's guns ineffective, and allow other pursers to close. I'm very happy to put a single round in both drones then get the kill when you lose them.
But this particular case was different because of the induced warping.
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I always target the plane with the icon first because of things mentioned here.
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I still dont quite understand but if anyone thinks Im going to sit in the #1 Bomber, flying straight and level, to make an even easier target to shoot down? They are nuts. Ive attacked groups of bombers too and never seen the drones dissapear or do anything weird like that. Sounds like a connection issue. If anybody rams a bomber, for whatever reason, then its their fault.
It's not depending on connection speed, and it's not that the fighter "rams" a bomber.
It's a drone behaviour that is triggered by a certain combination of high speed and a turn. On the fighter's screen, the drones first start to lag from the bomber more and more, and then they suddenly start jumping hundreds of feet back into position. This is often reapeating itself several times. If you were attacking the drones at that point, they jump out of your gunsight and you shoot empty space. If you were attacking the lead bomber, you are in great danger of getting hit by a warping drone.
And again, the bomber pilot himself doesn't see these drone warps, they are not showing on his own FE. So it's not necessarily willfully exploited by the bomber pilot, it's simply a flaw in the program.
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Sounds like a connection issue. If anybody rams a bomber, for whatever reason, then its their fault. The fighter has every advantage in maneuverability and speed.
Your post is clearly biased and not factual. At high altitudes, often the bombers have the advantage in maneuverability and speed. Warping is most often the result of a bad connection on the part of the warper, not the person seeing the warping. To blame a fighter pilot for a bomber suddenly warping into him is just ignorant.
I know of several players who take advantage of their poor connections to intentionally get their bombers to warp. I chatted with one of these just a few months ago, and he specifically told me he is on a satellite connection and knows he gets his bombers to warp because of all the complaints he gets about it. Even though he can't see the warping, he knows how to induce it and maneuvers accordingly.
I don't mind bombers using defensive maneuvering, instead of their defensive guns. However, you should IMMEDIATELY lose your drones when maneuvering at full throttle, when making high-G maneuvers or when exceeding certain speed. Currently these tolerances are set too high and allow for too much to be realistic.
Anyone who has flown group bomber missions (like in FSO) knows the lead bomber usually needs to fly at reduced throttle, especially in turns, in order to maintain a tight formation. In AH, you can stay at full throttle and the drones will stay with you fairly easily, sometimes while warping back into formation.
Drones are meant to represent a defensive box. In reality, if a bomber turned out or dove from a defensive box, the other bombers would not follow him. Unfortunately in AH we get drones following along through ridiculous maneuvers. I have tested this and even shown trainers in the TA (so they could verify the warping) that it is possible to LOOP a lead bomber and have the drones rejoin me after a short warp. That is just silly.
+1 for more easily lost drones
<S>
Ryno
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Your post is clearly biased and not factual. At high altitudes, often the bombers have the advantage in maneuverability and speed. Warping is most often the result of a bad connection on the part of the warper, not the person seeing the warping.
This particular kind of high speed maneuver warping is not caused by connection issues.
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This particular kind of high speed maneuver warping is not caused by connection issues.
Yes, there are different causes for bomber warping. I meant to imply that when a connection issue is involved, it is most often the connection of the person seen warping (in this case the bomber pilot, not the fighter).
You typed your post while I was typing mine, so some of our comments overlapped.
<S>
Ryno
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It seems to me a medium bomber barrel roll is all it takes to induce this behaviour, but I have seen it on Lancaster's doing sharp pull-up to either side and then roll-turn back to the other side.
The B17s enter a dive at ~500mph in formation with their rear guns still blazing, out-diving Mossie's and Spitfires easily, and at the same time give the 1.5k gunner a field day with 5+ seconds of shooting time until the faster diving fighter have range to shoot himself. This is an unacceptable behaviour by a game claiming its high fidelity flight models.
Its just gaming the game doing this. It has become common among some bomber pilots.
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I have never once done, seen, or had done to me, a fighter shoot down at 1.5K.
Im really sorry a few of you had your cartoon fighters shot down, or rammed some, bombers. Perhaps if you ask nicely on 200 that they fly nice and straight and allow you to gun them all down right on their "6" they will comply. Its worth a try right?
Otherwise...Waaaa, Waaaa, Waaaa.
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This is a legitimate problem albeit not a huge one. I've definitely seen the drone warp. It's some kind of glitch where the drones are trying to fix their position. Hopefully it can be fixed with some kind of flight path smoothing code because when I've seen it, the "mothership" was not warping at all.
Also, I'm not sure why drones should blow up if the maneuvering is too excessive for them to stay in position. I'd just rather just see them take a long time to catch up with the aircraft after it rolls out (and be nice juicy easily tracked targets).
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Bomber guys are really nice people.......Think about it we never shoot at anyone unless first shot at! We fly the friendly skys dropping bibles off at towns enjoying the clear blue skys with not a care in the world! <S>
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Bomber guys are really nice people.......Think about it we never shoot at anyone unless first shot at! We fly the friendly skys dropping bibles off at towns enjoying the clear blue skys with not a care in the world! <S>
[/b]
Reminds me of the "meet the Pyro" cinematic from Team Fortress 2. :)
(link for those who want to watch/don't know)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&list=PL4EE85236508FFA21
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Bomber guys are really nice people.......Think about it we never shoot at anyone unless first shot at! We fly the friendly skys dropping bibles off at towns enjoying the clear blue skys with not a care in the world! <S>
LoL , you pepper me to a metal scrapyards before I reach my 800 yards (only to collect my bible of course) , pray is all I can do not to lose more than half a wing, and a engine oiled :old:
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[/b]
Reminds me of the "meet the Pyro" cinematic from Team Fortress 2. :)
(link for those who want to watch/don't know)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&list=PL4EE85236508FFA21
You know I think I've heard strains of Loving Spoonful tunes coming from 999000s bombers.
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If you have never been shot up by a buff set at 1.5 k, then you have never attacked a buff set with a good gunner, or flown a buff set with a good gunner.
I have never once done, seen, or had done to me, a fighter shoot down at 1.5K.
Im really sorry a few of you had your cartoon fighters shot down, or rammed some, bombers. Perhaps if you ask nicely on 200 that they fly nice and straight and allow you to gun them all down right on their "6" they will comply. Its worth a try right?
Otherwise...Waaaa, Waaaa, Waaaa.
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If you have never been shot up by a buff set at 1.5 k, then you have never attacked a buff set with a good gunner, or flown a buff set with a good gunner.
Er... I've flown against plenty of good gunners. I've had that happen, freakishly, once. If it's happening to you often, I might suggest 'maneuvering' slightly when you're within 1.5k of bombers.
Wiley.
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If you have never been shot up by a buff set at 1.5 k, then you have never attacked a buff set with a good gunner, or flown a buff set with a good gunner.
In my mind getting shot by a bomber when you are 1.5k out is not indicative of a good gunner, but a poor fighter pilot.
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Er... I've flown against plenty of good gunners. I've had that happen, freakishly, once. If it's happening to you often, I might suggest 'maneuvering' slightly when you're within 1.5k of bombers.
Wiley.
Fly around havermyer, I think that's his handle, at 1.5k, and not on his 6 and see what happens.
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I have. At long range he's shooting, but he hasn't taken parts off me until I was well on my way in to attack. He's maybe killed me a bit more than I've killed him. Somewhat near equal though iirc.
Wiley.