Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Arlo on March 18, 2014, 01:51:55 AM
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Disclaimer: I've been flying B-17s a lot lately to gain AH bomber perspective. I've enjoyed it. I think gunning for yourself is fun and challenging. This is just something that harkens back to my time doing tabletop war games (something I have neither the time nor patience for with both family obligations and the advent of PC games and the internet). I remember keeping track of my bomber crews and it added an element of sophistication that I appreciated (something I appreciate in Silent Hunter IV with my sub crews).
So here goes - AI bomber gunners - just a discussion is all.
What if ... our bombers did indeed come with AI gunners? Every position filled - single bomber or formation, the game mimicked you having a crew. What if their skill level varied per gunner? Let's say, initially, if you never spent any perks on them they represented rookies that could hardly hit anything at all and wasted a lot of ammo? We'll call that skill level 20. You could fly around with them and they would at least spray tracers in fear and desperation (that's sometimes enough to daunt the less skilled would-be aggressor). Players could still man a gun as well. Specifically a gun. No control of other gun positions on their plane (or on the other planes in a formation). Let's say you'd like to increase your gunner's skill (individually or as a whole). You could spend perks to do so. Perhaps a perk point bumps up one gunner by 10 points of skill. Spend six and you max him out at 80 (representing a gunner that's pretty much a crack shot and wastes less ammo). Spend 30 points and you can make a single B-17 quite a bit more dangerous. Spend 90 and you cover a full flight 'Dead-eye Richards.'
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/AIperkedgunners_zps6e69ecd5.png)
Now, as the illustration states, lose any of those gunners and their replacements are rookies again. Lose the whole plane (or a whole flight) and training (or, well, buying) begins anew. It would also be fun to give them individual names and such (imo).
This isn't a necessity by a far margin and I still Like the game, as is (not to mention, though I am, that I don't really know the code versus fun versus sacrifice of other potential fun things. Just a thought I'm sharing. :D
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That is what wart thunder game is for.
No RPG elements in AH please.
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That is what wart thunder game is for.
No RPG elements in AH please.
The only RPG element in my suggestion is naming the AI gunners. ;)
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Yay buff pilots having hissy fits about how their AI gunners suck and get them shot down.
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I'm sorry Arlo but this strikes me as a terrible idea. I think the last thing Aces High needs is more AI controlled guns.
:salute
Though perhaps we can work out some kind of trade if you'll back my 109T.. :uhoh
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Yea, no more AI plz !
I'm sorry Arlo but this strikes me as a terrible idea. I think the last thing Aces High needs is more AI controlled guns.
:salute
Though perhaps we can work out some kind of trade if you'll back my 109T.. :uhoh
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The only RPG element in my suggestion is naming the AI gunners. ;)
I was referring to increasing gunners skill by spending perk points.
Sorry Arlo, base acks and puffy acks are bad enough. I do not want flying acks as well. The gameplay result of AI gunners will be B17s doing loops while blasting away with deadly accuracy at planes 1k out, in all directions.
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6uqb0g4eJ1qiimjh.png)
Yea verily... :lol
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Bailing costs all perkie gunners on that plane (a bone for those frustrated by bomber bailers). :D
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I was referring to increasing gunners skill by spending perk points.
Sorry Arlo, base acks and puffy acks are bad enough. I do not want flying acks as well. The gameplay result of AI gunners will be B17s doing loops while blasting away with deadly accuracy at planes 1k out, in all directions.
Loops. Huh. Didn't think of that. Yes, code it where formations won't fall apart in loopty loops. :lol (J/K)
Think of an 80% level gunner as an AI that can shoot like 999000. Think of a 20% level gunner as a new player that sprays and prays and only hits the fighters that help from their end. Think of a 50% level gunner as bout average. They could be coded to focus on the closest threat (one plane only) or coded to focus on the closest threat in their arc of fire (thanks for that). Granted, when their fire is split so is the overall lethality per opponent (firepower-wise). :)
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I don't care about any of that I just want to meet Stiffler's Mom.
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I don't care about any of that I just want to meet Stiffler's Mom.
(http://cdn.thegloss.com/files/2011/02/stiflers-mom.jpg)
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I don't find the AI gunners in WT an issue, unless you do the box standard 6 o'clock approach. So I don't see how it will be much of an issue here. That being said, 1 plane and you can have AI. Formation and you have to gun for yourself or find someone to gun for you, maybe.
The thing is, it shouldn't cost you anything to take AI buddies in 1 plane. Now if you want a formation to have AI gunners, THEN I can see it costing you perks to have them "AI'ed UP".
I would have to say no to the "skill up" bit however. If I want to play WT, I'll go there. :)
As for the AI gunners themselves, it would need to be coded that they are affected by maneuvers made by the pilots. In other words, a Lancaster can't be a Lancastuka without his gunner suffering from the maneuvers. If I were to dogfight in my Ju-88, my gunners wouldn't be firing on anyone due to the extreme maneuvers I would be putting her through. Ask LedMagnet. :) Though I have a question in regards to the Lancaster when it came to doing it's corkscrew. During the maneuver, I see points where a gunner could take a shot, but was it something they would do, or were they busy holding on and giving the pilot information? :headscratch:
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As for the AI gunners themselves, it would need to be coded that they are affected by maneuvers made by the pilots. In other words, a Lancaster can't be a Lancastuka without his gunner suffering from the maneuvers. If I were to dogfight in my Ju-88, my gunners wouldn't be firing on anyone due to the extreme maneuvers I would be putting her through. Ask LedMagnet. :) Though I have a question in regards to the Lancaster when it came to doing it's corkscrew. During the maneuver, I see points where a gunner could take a shot, but was it something they would do, or were they busy holding on and giving the pilot information? :headscratch:
I could see code tied to rudder, elevator and aileron input. Sure ... yank and bank and your gunners shut off (even the player that's gunning for ya). :D
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I could see code tied to rudder, elevator and aileron input. Sure ... yank and bank and your gunners shut off (even the player that's gunning for ya). :D
Don't have to worry bout us when we gun. The screen jumps so bad I have to check to see if it's not me running at 1 FPS. :lol
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Don't have to worry bout us when we gun. The screen jumps so bad I have to check to see if it's not me running at 1 FPS. :lol
Then that much easier on the code dude. :)
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More people whining about being dumb and going into the bomsight with a fighter 1.5k out on their six.
They'll never learn, will they? :rolleyes:
And I don't care if you're rich enough to afford them. How about I put a button in your cockpit that kills the nearest enemy for 100 perk points?
Would you be happy then?
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More people whining about being dumb and going into the bomsight with a fighter 1.5k out on their six.
They'll never learn, will they? :rolleyes:
And I don't care if you're rich enough to afford them. How about I put a button in your cockpit that kills the nearest enemy for 100 perk points?
Would you be happy then?
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wut.gif)
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Thor is right. Less AI. More death by people.
Wiley.
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Thor is right. Less AI. More death by people.
Wiley.
My idea doesn't get in the way of death by people. :)
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wut.gif)
(http://memedepot.com/uploads/500/590_you_heard_me.jpg)
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(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/50495_55689613612_6738_n.jpg#I%20HEAR%20ya%20200x150)
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(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/50495_55689613612_6738_n.jpg#I%20HEAR%20ya%20200x150)
(http://b.vimeocdn.com/ps/149/657/1496573_300.jpg)
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(http://cliparts101.com/files/395/30F5B4DADF9F482F3F4F126BCC4408B6/Great.png)
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(http://cliparts101.com/files/395/30F5B4DADF9F482F3F4F126BCC4408B6/Great.png)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUTOxmL1grJEY1lfQesQvZzWfxTmvXWILFotWZOA3DnTofP3wXAg)
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(http://www.cofchrist.org/spec/SPECTACULAR-logo-small.png)
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So what we've got so far is AI gunners assigned to all gunner positions in your bomber or in your bomber formation. The player (players if plane or flight are joined by another) can take over any single position but have no control over the AI gunners. AI gunners have low skill level unless each one is bumped up through spending perks. Any beefed up gunner can die/be captured, etc if shot or if they bail and if that happens they are replaced with low skill recruit. If the pilot makes extreme maneuvers then the AI gunners wont fire until the bomber is once again straight and level. AI gunners will target the closest enemy in their gun arc.
So far so good. :D
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So what we've got so far is AI gunners assigned to all gunner positions in your bomber or in your bomber formation. The player (players if plane or flight are joined by another) can take over any single position but have no control over the AI gunners. AI gunners have low skill level unless each one is bumped up through spending perks. Any beefed up gunner can die/be captured, etc if shot or if they bail and if that happens they are replaced with low skill recruit. If the pilot makes extreme maneuvers then the AI gunners wont fire until the bomber is once again straight and level. AI gunners will target the closest enemy in their gun arc.
So far so good. :D
Now that I look at a re-cap it's not that bad of an idea. Meh, but bot bad.
Progress is being made.
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I've watched some of the warthunder gameplay on the AI gunners. Deadly accurate 800 yards out. Hmm.
I see how it works in warbirds because the arenas are smaller, so less time for the players to get into combat. So things that would be far more irritating or unacceptable here are more tolerable there, because of the shorter flight time/ time to find a fight.
How exactly would it work though, Arlo? Would the player get perks for kills the gunners get? Would it say "system shot you down" or 'you have been killed".
Personally, I am iffy on the auto gunners deal. It's a decent idea, but I don't think it would be appropriate for aces high. I don't like dying by the system, by aimbots. I would rather die by a skilled player gunner (999000) than by a random auto puffy ack (CV) or auto gun (ack). If I wanted to fight aimbot/system 'coads' I would play offline :)
I think that aces high has something that WT doesn't though, the ability for another player to gun for you. Which is what I would recommend you having if you are going into an area that is heavily occupied by enemies; and you know you won't be able to bomb and defend at the same time. While I understand it can be frustrating at times dying when you are bombing (been there). I would rather fight and die by a player than the system.
Plus it opens up a new salvo of BS and whines that HTC would have to hear.
My AI gunner isn't accurate enough and wastes all my ammo.
Enemy AI gunners are TOO accurate and I can't get close enough to take a shot.
Would probably the top 2 things HTC would hear.
I can't think of any plane that would benefit from having an AI gunner.. like a medium-type bomber. Many bombers don't have thousands of rounds to expend, and honestly, I think I would be more accurate than the AI :D
I ultimately vote neutral on this. While I do like the concept, I don't think that HTC currently has a place for AI gunners in Aces High.
:salute
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Would the player get perks for kills the gunners get?
Nope. That would be like earning frequent flier miles for a flight you flew on frequent flier miles.
I would rather die by a skilled player gunner (999000) than by a random auto puffy ack (CV AI) or auto gun (ack AI). If I wanted to fight aimbot/system 'coads' I would play offline :)
There's some online things coming down the pike that may either surprise you or disappoint you. AvA gave us a preview.
But .... my disclaimer holds. I'm enjoying running from seat to seat (and plane to plane) in my bomber (formation). But this would change the scope of things (and I happen to think it might even attract more players). :salute :cheers:
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While I do like the concept, I don't think that HTC currently has a place for AI gunners in Aces High.
AH already has AI gunners in AI planes implemented as loadable AI missions. It's been used (may still be used) sometimes in the AvA. AH AI buff gunners are super deadly if you approach from six o'clock. Other approaches were somewhat less deadly, but I quickly tired of attacking AI buffs as I routinely just got instantly shredded. (AH has AI fighter pilots as well, and they are deadly as well, annoyingly so in fact, although they occasionally do stupid things like get serious target fixation.)
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No RPG elements in AH please.
I actually had kinda high hopes for some RPG elements in the once upcoming Tour of Duty / Combat Tour...
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I actually had kinda high hopes for some RPG elements in the once upcoming Tour of Duty / Combat Tour...
Same here, but I also like the MA model. Having arenas with both would be ideal.
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Nope. That would be like earning frequent flier miles for a flight you flew on frequent flier miles.
There's some online things coming down the pike that may either surprise you or disappoint you. AvA gave us a preview.
But .... my disclaimer holds. I'm enjoying running from seat to seat (and plane to plane) in my bomber (formation). But this would change the scope of things (and I happen to think it might even attract more players). :salute :cheers:
i don't have a problem with the AI. But in a multiplayer setting, Ai can be dangerous. Either making the game "too hard" or "too easy".
As for AvA to make the #'s even, I wouldn't mind that. Because it is hard to get AvA populated at times. Perhaps in the arena roster it could show how many in that population are AI, that would be cool.
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I actually had kinda high hopes for some RPG elements in the once upcoming Tour of Duty / Combat Tour...
That was supposed to be some kind of career mode. I don't think HTC intended that your pilot become "better" as it advanced through his career. Ranks / scores / plane & mission assignments / etc do not affect your performance, or your plane's performance in the cyberair. A P-51D is a P-51D and all pilots black out at 6G, etc.
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My idea doesn't get in the way of death by people. :)
Nope, but it adds more death by AI. Not a good thing IMO.
Wiley.
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That was supposed to be some kind of career mode. I don't think HTC intended that your pilot become "better" as it advanced through his career.
They did, see paragraph# 4:
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/aceshighcombattour_zpsdb00d682.jpg)
Being an old RPG nut, I really was looking forward to that part specifically. But we all know how it turned out ;)
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They did, see paragraph# 4:
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/aceshighcombattour_zpsdb00d682.jpg)
Being an old RPG nut, I really was looking forward to that part specifically. But we all know how it turned out ;)
Ugh. To be honest, if those benefits would've been significant gameplay-wise, I am kind of glad it fizzled and died. Anytime there's something like that in a PvP game, there's the best couple builds, and everything else is gimped.
Wiley.
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Don't imagine for a second that he gave up entirely on that. :D
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Ugh. To be honest, if those benefits would've been significant gameplay-wise, I am kind of glad it fizzled and died.
For the record, it was never intended to replace the MA at all. This system would had been used for the Combat Tour exclusively.
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oh mannn, another wish to change game to fit someones else's perference--when will it end???? sounds like your getting killed more than you think you should...quit hitting bombers from their six..you'll live longer. :bhead
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oh mannn, another wish to change game to fit someones else's perference--when will it end???? sounds like your getting killed more than you think you should...quit hitting bombers from their six..you'll live longer. :bhead
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/captcha.gif)
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/captcha.gif)
lol, that's a good gif :)
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lol, that's a good gif :)
Did ya know Don Adams was a DI in the Corps?
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And another thing .... it would probably reduce the bomb and bail percentage (did I say that already?). :D
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Having code where every gun has an AI gunner and bomber guns shoot at the closest enemy to that gunner, within that gunners arc of fire, would make for divvying up the formation fire around it (more realistic, actually). :D
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I am old enough to tell you that in Air Warrior you could fill all gunner positions with real players. Now, that was fun! I don't remember having any formations, just one plane.
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Aye, we could. And 'Blood Dragons' were born.
But ... it would take a lot of players to man formation guns in an event. Not to mention pilots if the formations didn't exist anymore. What AI gunners would add (or subtract, depending on your view) would be no more 3 plane formations of all gunners on all three planes fixated on one fighter (though the ones out of arc won't fire). Or ... rather ... each individual gunner aiming at the biggest threat in it's arc. You would see formations shooting in multiple directions if attacked by multiple threats around them. It's a pro and con thing whit defensive arcs more active against multiple attackers but reduced overall guns on a single fighter (unless just a single fighter attacks). Allow a player to still be a (single) gunner for a buff pilot and the dynamic lends to more realism. :)