Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on April 01, 2014, 09:44:03 AM
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I dont know much about the German fighters in the game.
Overall which is best as an all around fighter? As in whats best to take up against both fighters and Bombers?
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109k4 gets my vote.
shamus
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Overall which is best as an all around fighter? As in whats best to take up against both fighters and Bombers?
If we define "all round" as broad as possible it would be, in my opinion the 109G-14. Because unlike the K-4 it also can carry gondolas and a bomb, which makes it a better bomber hunter at low to medium high altitudes and ands some reasonable air to ground capability, while still being one of the top notch dogfighters in game.
If we limit it to a rather pure fighter role (engaing planes only), it's the K-4 for that additional top speed boost over the G-14
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This is ultimately like most "what is best" threads: depends on situation.
The 109K-4 is NOT the best German fighter, it may be the best interceptor but it certainly isn't the best fighter. When thinking of "best" for a fighter you need multiple qualities, think "air superiority". Speed is only one attribute. FWIW, the 190D-9 and Ta152 are a close runner up for best German interceptor. In that case it is about picking your poison and for me the 109K-4 gets left behind most often as does the Ta152.
I vote the 109F-4/G-2 for being the best fighter, but close on their heels is the G-14. The G-14 is by far the most versatile of the German fighters. I put the 190A-5 at almost equal to the G-14 in terms of versatility, it just isn't as nimble in a close in knife fight.
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The Me-163. But of all non-perkers, realistically it is the Dora. It has many claims to being one of the best non-perked fighters in the game-speed at MA ALTS, Climb, accel, roll rate, gun package. The K4 is the better duellist, but the MA is most assuredly not the DA.
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In my hands, if I was expecting to engage both fighters and bombers in a sortie, I'd take a 190A-5 or possibly a 190D-9. The D9 does better bomber hunting due to its speed and climb attributes. I can't dogfight in it very well at all though. The A5 turns much better than it, but hasn't got as much speed.
For fighters though, I've got to agree with SmokinLoon. The G-2 is, IMO, one of the best balanced fighters in the game. Doesn't do anything spectacularly well, but does a lot of things well. The F-4 is a bit slower but much twistier. About the only downside to them is, I am really not fond of the 2xdeer rifle, 1x20mm gun package. If your gunnery is good enough to make those guns work for you though, they're excellent.
For myself personally, if I had to pick two, it would be the A5 for buffs/fighters, and the G2 for fighters only.
Wiley.
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For furballs, 190A-5. For 1v1, K-4 or G-14.
If you are wanting to learn 109's, start flying the G-2 to learn. Then move into G-14 with ultimately ending with the K-4. Just a 109 dweeb's 2 cents.
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"Fighter". Such an arbitary description and makes it difficult to answer. It also depends on if your intent is to survive the typical MA encounter versus mix it up and likely get chased down. I'll get a breakdown of the plane I choose based on the makeup of the fight. The end game is always to escape with scalps.
Fighter/Interceptor (Note Primary is listed first)
Bf109K4 - Can never go wrong but I will typically take the K4 if my team is at disadvantage, getting E is critical, and I also know that I am going to have to turn fight, and escape will come down to the wire.
Fw190A-5/Bf109G14 - Either of these planes will be taken if there is an even sided fight where escape is a little less dire. I classify the 190A-5 as a fighter because of its roll rate which can allow you to dominate a rolling scissor.
Interceptor/Fighter - I have to give the nod to the 190D9 over the Ta-152, however I prefer the Ta-152 because I find the plane more enjoyable and lethal when flown to its maximum potential which I strive for. I'll typically take a Ta152 when I am going to a location where I will be outnumbered and I will start with an altitude advanatge. In any engagement like this, killing bogeys fast and surely is key. Oil leaking them in a 190D9 will only keep them festering around ultimately reducing your options.
If I had to summarize "best", to all myriads of game play in context of lethality and survival in the main arena when flown to their maximum potential, top 5 would be:
1. Bf109K4
2. Ta152
3. Fw190D9
4. Bf109G14
5. Fw190A-5
If I had to summarize "best", to all myriads of game play in context of lethality and survival in the main arena when flown to their average potential, top 5 would be:
1. Fw190D9
2. Bf109K4
3. Bf109G14
4. Ta152
5. Fw190A-5
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My opinion is it's hard to define one of them as the "best" as you can be successful in any plane is you fly it enough. If we're talking about just the plane then I'd say it's pretty close between all the 109's, 190A5, 190D9, and Ta-152.
I think the 109F4, followed closely by the 109G2, is the most well balanced of all the 109's. It combines the 109's excellent climb rate, excellent rudder control, great flaps, and just overall fighting ability that all 109's have, but it balances it far better than any other 109. The later in the 109 series you go, the heavier they get, the less nimble they become, and they start to focus more on speed and climb rate. The 109F4 just balances everything about the 109 so well and it's so light and nimble you can really throw it around the skies at will. The 109G2 is a close second for most balanced 109. It's got a more powerful engine than the F4 but it is also a bit heavier and not as nimble as the F4. The K4 is a fantastic plane, but the gun is just troublesome. You have to be a REALLY good shot to get hits with that 30mm. You can out fly your opponent all you want, but if you can't hit your shots then you're never going to get a kill. That's the main reason why I think the K4 is the worst of the 109 series. If the gun wasn't so bad, or if we could put the MG151/20 in it instead, then the K4 would easily be one of the best IMO.
The 190A5 is kind of the 109F4 of the 190 series. It's light, nimble, and balances the 190's characteristics quite well. The 190D isn't as nimble as the A5 but it's fast! Speed is a good survivability trait to have and the Dora has it. It's also a pretty good turn fighter if you fight in the vertical and use it's great climb rate. The Ta-152 is just a beast. It's a rocket with a prop! Not only is it fast, but it can turn very well at most speeds! The 152 is plagued with being too much of a beast and can be difficult to handle, but if you master the plane then there is very little in the skies you'd have to worry about.
My list of top 5 German planes IMO:
1. 109F4 - I can fight my way out of any situation in this plane
2. 109G2 - Same as 109F
3. 190A5 - Amazing fighter that can BnZ and TnB, the latter of which surprises lots of people
4. 190D9 - Very smooth machine, it's speed and climb rate allows you to quickly work your opponent down until you kill him
5. Ta152 - FAST! You can rope people so easily in this plane, and if you're forced to turn fight it can do so!
I would put the 109K4 on this list if it wasn't for the gun. The plane is amazing! The gun is troublesome. :uhoh
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This is ultimately like most "what is best" threads: depends on situation.
No its not. I specifically specified what the capabilities the fighter should have. The best "all around Luftwaffe fighter" versus fighters and bombers should you come across either. I already see some complications concerning my specification regarding the use of gondolas and extra guns/ammo. Obviously this affects performance and turning ability.
I dont know German iron and need your recommendations so let me ask this. On a day when you upp German iron expecting to find both fighters and bombers exactly what fighter and loadout/guns would you upp? With so many sets the choice is easy, or easier. Its seems with the German set the choices start getting complicated.
There is no specified mission to load up and take off for. Only the 100% guarantee you will meet enemy fighters and/or bombers.
What fighter with what fuel/gun/ammo load out and why? :salute
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Oh gosh, that's a tough call. I really like both the 109K4 and the 109F4 for dogfighting, and the Ta-152 for bomber hunting and boom-and-zoom fighting. If I had to pick the one plane that I never feel out of place in, it's the 109K4. Big gun makes any plane go boom, and I've practiced sufficiently with it to make the aiming part a nonfactor.
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I'd go with either the Dora or the K4. The one consideration I've not seen is more of a real world concern, which is survivability.
Imagine having to lead into battle a large number of pilots, a majority of which are limited in skill. Which of these planes are both lethal enough to kill enough to win the battle and yet keep the rookies alive?
Earlier 109s and even my beloved A5 take more skill and knowledge to survive. Translation, rookies will die quicker. The K4 and Dora have speed, which is life. And no, that does not automatically mean you turn into a runstang. It also means you can reset and change the nature of a fight because the enemy isn't able to cover you up as easily.
In general the 190 is more durable on the whole over the 109. In essence, the 109 has to slow down and take time to cut the other guys throat. The 190 is designed to blaze through, guns blazing and reset. Kurt Tank knew what he was designing and why.
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No its not. I specifically specified what the capabilities the fighter should have. The best "all around Luftwaffe fighter" versus fighters and bombers should you come across either. I already see some complications concerning my specification regarding the use of gondolas and extra guns/ammo. Obviously this affects performance and turning ability.
I dont know German iron and need your recommendations so let me ask this. On a day when you upp German iron expecting to find both fighters and bombers exactly what fighter and loadout/guns would you upp? With so many sets the choice is easy, or easier. Its seems with the German set the choices start getting complicated.
There is no specified mission to load up and take off for. Only the 100% guarantee you will meet enemy fighters and/or bombers.
What fighter with what fuel/gun/ammo load out and why? :salute
My favorite is the 190A-5. Speed, climb, firepower, high speed handling, roll rate, etc. Its Achilles Heel is being slow-n-low. But again, much of it depends on how much you **need* to dance vs how much you need to run the gauntlet. If the skies are less crowded and you're more likely to get in to knife fight, take the 109F-4. If you're more likely to mix it up with pony, Spit16, and La7 fanbois then the 190A-5 will carry you further.
Again, there is no "best", just which is better for certain situation. Oh, and regardless of which 109 you take to the virtual skies unless you're hunting bombers or moving dirt leave the gondolas in the hanger.
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Me262
If it carried bombs like the majority of real ones. :old:
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The 152 of course.
You can control a furball with the plane. It has the fuel and ammo to stay around for a long time. The speed to get out of trouble and chase down most planes in the game. The plane can maintain energy like no other.
It is a monster. Though I think a lot of people are almost afraid to fly it because of the tail stall which is very easy to over come.
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The 152 is a horrible plane and should never be flown by anyone for any reason. You should also completely ignore them when you see any enemy flying them, they are absolutely no threat to anyone. The guns are complete crap. A hub mounted 30 and 2 wing mounted 20's? The 30 only has 90 rounds, it can't kill anything.
It really should have an ENY value around 45 to 50.
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The 152 is a horrible plane and should never be flown by anyone for any reason. You should also completely ignore them when you see any enemy flying them, they are absolutely no threat to anyone. The guns are complete crap. A hub mounted 30 and 2 wing mounted 20's? The 30 only has 90 rounds, it can't kill anything.
It really should have an ENY value around 45 to 50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTSA_sWGM44
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The A8 - "no more assists" :cool:
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No one ever says anything nice about the bf110G. :frown:
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Even though i like flying the D9 so much, the K4 is the ultimate fighter plane. Not only the best fighter of the Luftwaffe, but arguably the best and most fun-to-fly fighter in AH, excluding the jets.
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I like the 109F-4 and G-2. I think the F-4 is the best of the 109s as a pure dog fighter but the G-2 can carry a bomb and is about the next best total dog fighter of the German rides in my humble opinion. :salute
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I'm wondering why does it have to be a Luftwaffe fighter?
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Even though i like flying the D9 so much, the K4 is the ultimate fighter plane. Not only the best fighter of the Luftwaffe, but arguably the best and most fun-to-fly fighter in AH, excluding the jets.
If it had a 20mm package and not that potato chucker I would agree with you. However I do good to hit the ground with that gun much less another plane but that is a great plane to fly and I like it. :aok
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I'm wondering why does it have to be a Luftwaffe fighter?
Because I specifically asked about German iron since I have very little knowledge of them and flight time with them.
What one was the most popular with the actual LW pilots? Thanx.
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No one ever says anything nice about the bf110G. :frown:
Damn it....the 110G never gets any respect! Why, I ask you?! Why!?!?!?
It's got great guns!
It's fast as....ahhhhh.....errrr
Well....it can turn like a Spi....aaaaahhh....mmmm....
I mean, it can climb like a bat out of.....er.....um....no....
Look, it's got fantastic roll raaaaaahhhh....no....mmmm
Did I mention the guns?
It's got a cool rear gunner....with a useless popgun.....mmmm
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad030.gif)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad016.gif) I got nothin'....(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad025.gif)
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me262 da doy
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If it had a 20mm package and not that potato chucker I would agree with you. However I do good to hit the ground with that gun much less another plane but that is a great plane to fly and I like it. :aok
Hmm i could shoot that tater quite well, had much more problems with the G6's 20mm, trying to hold the cross on the target.
See, what is a huge advantage to one, might be a disadvantage to someone else. Just like the torque.
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What one was the most popular with the actual LW pilots? Thanx.
I'd say the Me 262 for those few that actually got to fly one.
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I'd say the Me 262 for those few that actually got to fly one.
The F series 109 and the D series 190's were very popular as well.
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The F series 109 and the D series 190's were very popular as well.
Yes, the F was popular in it's time and being considered the "finest" by many of those being able to fly all 109s... but late in the war (=AH's LW arena) I guess few would have preferred the noble F to a late war monster like 190D or a Me 262.
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Yes, the F was popular in it's time and being considered the "finest" by many of those being able to fly all 109s... but late in the war (=AH's LW arena) I guess few would have preferred the noble F to a late war monster like 190D or a Me 262.
Indeed. Only speed would see them through.
<S>
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The A8 - "no more assists" :cool:
True, but you forget the corollary to that- "No more kills". ;)
Damn it....the 110G never gets any respect! Why, I ask you?! Why!?!?!?
It's got great guns!
It's fast as....ahhhhh.....errrr
Well....it can turn like a Spi....aaaaahhh....mmmm....
I mean, it can climb like a bat out of.....er.....um....no....
Look, it's got fantastic roll raaaaaahhhh....no....mmmm
Did I mention the guns?
It's got a cool rear gunner....with a useless popgun.....mmmm
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad030.gif)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad016.gif) I got nothin'....(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad025.gif)
It's better than most give it credit for, but it's a masochist's ride. However I can remember some sorties with Zoney hanging out overhead in his N jug with me in the 110 that resulted in a lot of dead aircraft.
Wiley.
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G-14 for me.
The why: something just clicked for me one day. Probably because I was focusing on learning it, but the "it" just happened. This hasn't happened to me in any other plane yet, but I'm sure it does the same thing for everybody. All of a sudden some things(not everything of course) just made more sense.
For me it happened in a fight with Ammo.
:salute Ammo
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True, but you forget the corollary to that- "No more kills". ;)
It's better than most give it credit for, but it's a masochist's ride. However I can remember some sorties with Zoney hanging out overhead in his N jug with me in the 110 that resulted in a lot of dead aircraft.
Wiley.
:rofl
Yes it is a masochist's ride....but I think flying a ride with so many limitations helps develop skills. That and you tend to not get PMs saying "You only beat me because you fly a uber plane, dillwad!"
Next up...the P40 series.... that's gonna be a whole new level of masochism. :aok
:O :bolt:
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Of all the L/W books I've read that are written accounts by pilots who flew various planes, a large portion of them all of the fondest memories of the 109F series. I can think of 3 books right off the top of my head where the L/W pilots said that the early 109F model was by far their favorite. The 190 drivers who came from the 109 also have high praise for the 190's, saying that it was far, far easier to fly and fight what with all the advanced controls and systems for the age. "A Higher Call", and Osprey's "Fw 190 Aces of the Eastern Front" are two great examples of both of these planes and what I'm referring to.
In the game, each of the L/W aircraft are dangerous and capable in their own way, even the 110/410. I agree with Latrobe for my part, I feel like I can scrap my way out of almost any trouble in the F4, while in the K4 I feel like I don't have to. In the 190D I feel like a Pony pilot, just better looking. All through the 109 series you give away little things while getting other things in return, from the E model to the K4. The F4 and G2 IMO can be fought the most similarly, the G6 is sort of in it's own little world, the G14 being the utility batter of the higher end, and the K4 being the supercar, with all the quirks/vices and advantages that come with that.
If it was a bet for $, and I was going into a furball, it would come down to the F4 or the K4 for me, depending on the details - 5/6 and pick em.
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109K-4 but the 190A-8 and the 110G-2 get more of my attention and the A-8 is far and away my most successful ride in AH over time; even eclipsing my beloved Spits by a wide margin.
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I'd rate the Ta 152H as the best overall Luftwaffe fighter. It has the best combination of attributes. Typical low level combat is not where it shines best, though.
For general use, I prefer the 109G-2. For me, it's the best balanced of the 109s. The 109F-4 is a better pure dogfighter, but the G-2 accelerates and climbs markedly better. It's also faster at all altitudes. The G-2 can carry a 250 kilo bomb, giving it some limited attack capability. It lacks the fire power of the later versions, but the gondola option and the superior handling and better view over the nose offsets that for me. Of all the 109s, the G-2 is best able to compete with the Yak-3 and La-7 in a knife fight. Very much their equal if you know how to avoid the 109's minor weaknesses and exploit those of the Yak and Lavochkin.
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:rofl
Yes it is a masochist's ride....but I think flying a ride with so many limitations helps develop skills. That and you tend to not get PMs saying "You only beat me because you fly a uber plane, dillwad!"
Next up...the P40 series.... that's gonna be a whole new level of masochism. :aok
:O :bolt:
Enjoy spending all night chasing Spit16's and Runstangs. :lol
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If my memory serves me, one of JG26 group commanders, was assigned a group of 109s,
After first flight in the 109, he asked his parachute be packed into a "proper bird" (FW190a5), and the whole group switched to the FW190.
Of all the L/W books I've read that are written accounts by pilots who flew various planes, a large portion of them all of the fondest memories of the 109F series. I can think of 3 books right off the top of my head where the L/W pilots said that the early 109F model was by far their favorite. The 190 drivers who came from the 109 also have high praise for the 190's, saying that it was far, far easier to fly and fight what with all the advanced controls and systems for the age. "A Higher Call", and Osprey's "Fw 190 Aces of the Eastern Front" are two great examples of both of these planes and what I'm referring to.
In the game, each of the L/W aircraft are dangerous and capable in their own way, even the 110/410. I agree with Latrobe for my part, I feel like I can scrap my way out of almost any trouble in the F4, while in the K4 I feel like I don't have to. In the 190D I feel like a Pony pilot, just better looking. All through the 109 series you give away little things while getting other things in return, from the E model to the K4. The F4 and G2 IMO can be fought the most similarly, the G6 is sort of in it's own little world, the G14 being the utility batter of the higher end, and the K4 being the supercar, with all the quirks/vices and advantages that come with that.
If it was a bet for $, and I was going into a furball, it would come down to the F4 or the K4 for me, depending on the details - 5/6 and pick em.
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Clearly Me 262 - it is the "next generation" fighter with no 2nd to it all over.
For the prop fighter I think 190D or Ta-152 depending or medium or high altitude fighting.
They have: great climb, speed, ammo, roll ratio, near perfect visibility, excellent dive characteristics - i.e. they have all it needs except for turn ability at low speed.
If I compare it to 109K/109G10 they have poor roll ratio, bad visibility, they tend to compress earlier, less ammo/or hard to hit ammo (30mm/20mm).
So for me Dora is one of the perfect fighters. 109F is nearly ignoble fighter in comparison to it - it can turn well but that's it.
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Moot in a TA152 :aok
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Moot in a TA152 :aok
That was always a sight to behold!
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Hmm i could shoot that tater quite well, had much more problems with the G6's 20mm, trying to hold the cross on the target.
See, what is a huge advantage to one, might be a disadvantage to someone else. Just like the torque.
I love that torque of the 109K-4 and nothing else I fly can turn around like the K model if you learn to use the torque. I worked with Agent360 in the DA in the K and he can really fly it. I also learned how to go fast without compressing as easy in all the 109s. Now if I can learn to shoot that tater gun I would be set. :cheers:
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Enjoy spending all night chasing Spit16's and Runstangs. :lol
I rarely have to, to be honest.. Most see the 110G as a easy kill i.e. they come to me.
I've always enjoyed popping preconceived notions. Some of them manage to get me...but I rarely make it easy for them....and I usually give far more than get. :aok
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I love that torque of the 109K-4 and nothing else I fly can turn around like the K model if you learn to use the torque. I worked with Agent360 in the DA in the K and he can really fly it. I also learned how to go fast without compressing as easy in all the 109s. Now if I can learn to shoot that tater gun I would be set. :cheers:
Hey thats good to hear!
What i can say: get close, look for crossing snapshots and lead a lot. Once you begin to really feel it, you will be a damned killer machine :aok
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The A8 flown correctly with better than average SA, is a killer, not only against buffs, I get equal or better K/D in the A8 as I get in any other 190.
Without good SA you are dead meat, but that includes not only 190s.
True, but you forget the corollary to that- "No more kills". ;)
Wiley.
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The A8 flown correctly with better than average SA, is a killer, not only against buffs, I get equal or better K/D in the A8 as I get in any other 190.
Without good SA you are dead meat, but that includes not only 190s.
Was mostly just joshing, and I don't mean it in a chest-thumping way, but I can't think of the last time I felt threatened in my D11 1v1 by an A8 when it wasn't doing really conservative BnZ and I was low E. It just seems to me the toughest of the 190s to do well in. Anything twistier would only make it worse on the 190 IMO.
Multiple vs multiple is where it comes into its own, but that's a completely different kind of fight and I still feel against fighters the others are better choices.
Wiley.
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Got to be the G-14... You've got most of the K-4 performance down low with a little lower weight/better turn and 20 mil ballistics for when you're dealing with escorts. To go buff hunting, you can carry gondies or raketen. You've always got an option in the G-14 - not so in most of the 190 variants, save the A-5. They are dead, dead, dead, at low E. Generally, when I see a 190 and I'm in any 109, as long as he's not above me, I'm not concerned. I can't say that about Mr. Spitty. Of course, a 109 with gondies is pretty worthless in a dogfight, too, but at least you can dress for the occasion.
Now, if we had the G-10...(http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaround/611943/611943_3.jpg)
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Assuming we are limiting it to prop planes, in a scenario setting, the best are 190D's and 109K's. Which one depends on pilot preference. I've flown them both a fair amount in scenarios and prefer the 190D because of its excellent handling at high speeds, excellent roll rate, and lots of ammo. They are fabulous planes for a scenario environment (many on many fights, high alts often involved, high speed often involved, etc.). The speed, handling, lethality, and ammo load give you the ability to get in, flick quickly to position for shot, give a good burst, flick to a new position, shoot more, etc.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/9950/200711_zz/pics/frame4/015-killTempest-SNAG-0023.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201003_finalBattle/pics/frame1/013-sturdy51-Image-0036.jpg)
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109F4 is the best dog fighter for German aircraft.
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Even though i like flying the D9 so much, the K4 is the ultimate fighter plane. Not only the best fighter of the Luftwaffe, but arguably the best and most fun-to-fly fighter in AH, excluding the jets.
thanks for finally agreeing with me k4 = easymode, :P
I like the 190 Dora for MA stuff all round attributes.
for actually fighting your opponent instead of usual luftwaffe tactics the 109 F4 is the bees knees. I'd rather go one round with wakeem than 100 hours flying immelmanns.
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talking about tactics, what about the "pick it just after the takeoff then call it a good fair fight" one?
how i cant stand you
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K4 without a doubt. What it can't outturn it can outrun, what it can't outrun it can outturn. Acceleration and speed allow it to dictate any fight. It has the lethality to tangle low, escape when needed, and decimate people with one hit on the overshoot.
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talking about tactics, what about the "pick it just after the takeoff then call it a good fair fight" one?
how i cant stand you
Sounds like bad blood... I'd love to hear the back story but am sensitive to the always-dangling lock sword. I will say, nobody likes getting vulched, but then, it's tough at 10k when somebody in a Temp comes screaming down from 15k as well. I don't think there's much by way of the "fair fight" in the MA. It seems like that's all about acquiring an a priori advantage and exploiting it.
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Its funny that this thread is still going when the answer is so obvious. The question wasnt "whats your favorite nazi fighter?".
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Hey thats good to hear!
What i can say: get close, look for crossing snapshots and lead a lot. Once you begin to really feel it, you will be a damned killer machine :aok
:aok
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109F4 is the best dog fighter for German aircraft.
True, but let me ask you for some advice... I was getting some 1v1 with a Spit 16. I started with the F-4 but found myself consistently overmatched, it seemed. If I tried to out turn him, I'd invariably end up with him taking lead shots on me (perhaps I wasn't in the sweet spot of the f4s speed versus turn rate curve? - and where is that? for the g-4, its somewhere in the 250-325 range). The vertical was just as bad. It seemed liked I'd run out of energy well before him and my loops would collapse or worse... Invariably, after losing 3 of 4, I'd up the g-14. At least with that it was fairly easy to retain advantage: dive while using roll to track target, pull up and roll to put my canopy on the spit, dive again. If my lead shots were better, this would be more or less foolproof.
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Sounds like bad blood... I'd love to hear the back story but am sensitive to the always-dangling lock sword. I will say, nobody likes getting vulched, but then, it's tough at 10k when somebody in a Temp comes screaming down from 15k as well. I don't think there's much by way of the "fair fight" in the MA. It seems like that's all about acquiring an a priori advantage and exploiting it.
Its not about his usual MA score-'horing in his tempon but doing the same in the koth toc. Yea i definiately have a bad taste about him, especially since he have done something dirty yet hes posing as Mr Sportsmanship.
You might know that i wasnt a runner, not even in a 190, yet his comment about running as the luft tactic is just bad-willing and disgusting.
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True, but let me ask you for some advice... I was getting some 1v1 with a Spit 16. I started with the F-4 but found myself consistently overmatched, it seemed.
I had just the opposite experience several years ago vs TonyJoey. He was in the F4 and I tried the Spit XVI then the Spit V. After five matches I went somewhere else. There was nothing I could do to beat him.
I consider TonyJoey one of the better sticks in the game but at the same time I don't consider myself to be that bad. The F4 is very capable against any of the Spits.
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109F4 is the best dog fighter for German aircraft.
She truly is!
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Then I'm not flying in its sweet spot...
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:huh....I see no LOVE at all for the 109 E.....o yea 1st version.....early war...not the greatest in turns, climb, and speed rate....... :headscratch: but then again...something tells me its the pilot ...not the plane....pretty sure an ACE from this game...can TAKE any plane...and work it to his advantage, how you get to that level? Play the Game :D..
...Zoney....i dont wanna hear about your Ta-152 sarcasm :P .
Luftwaffe birds are dangerous in themselves...you just have to know how to handle them...and what are their strong suits....and their weak suits.....
O and my list goes as follows...
1. FW-190 A-8
2. FW-190 D
3. BF-109 F-4 and All G Series
4. TA- 152
5. ME 262
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True, but let me ask you for some advice... I was getting some 1v1 with a Spit 16. I started with the F-4 but found myself consistently overmatched, it seemed. If I tried to out turn him, I'd invariably end up with him taking lead shots on me (perhaps I wasn't in the sweet spot of the f4s speed versus turn rate curve? - and where is that? for the g-4, its somewhere in the 250-325 range). The vertical was just as bad. It seemed liked I'd run out of energy well before him and my loops would collapse or worse... Invariably, after losing 3 of 4, I'd up the g-14. At least with that it was fairly easy to retain advantage: dive while using roll to track target, pull up and roll to put my canopy on the spit, dive again. If my lead shots were better, this would be more or less foolproof.
I'm not the person to ask this question. I'm just an average fighter pilot who has no extraordinary skills in fighters. None the less, The 109F does quite well slow with flaps out and at that point you can turn with most planes. The climb rate is also wonderful, so use this against other aircraft. The 109F is a devil on the deck, an does some of her best work there in my experience. That's pretty much all I have to say. Ask me a question on bombers and I'll write you an essay. :aok
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Its not about his usual MA score-'horing in his tempon but doing the same in the koth toc. Yea i definiately have a bad taste about him, especially since he have done something dirty yet hes posing as Mr Sportsmanship.
You might know that i wasnt a runner, not even in a 190, yet his comment about running as the luft tactic is just bad-willing and disgusting.
tried admirably to correct deb over this falling out in the 190 forum but he walked away from a rational discussion over what transpired with films and objective input from others and clearly still cannot accept it was well within the rules and chooses to blame me rather than himself, his connection or the host for letting him up. wabbits in KOTH get hunted plain and simple.
really is a shame he can't get over it as he is one of a select few that can give me a good fight in my time zone.
but don't want to de-rail this thread so will be last post on this matter.
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It was you poking the sweet spot that the usual luft tactic is running. After that, what on earth do you expect from me?
You have no right to talk about rational discussions, nor about good fights, nor about rules, sportsmanship or anything.
Just stay quiet and fricken leave me alone, hypocrite.
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90% of luftwaffe fighters will try and use their excellent speed / climb and acceleration to get an advantage over planes that will flat out turn them. Do I think they are all wuss pilots? no way, they are flying to their planes strengths.
If I see someone TnB in a k4 and 190, I smile because they are having fun and getting stuck in as everyone should.
As long as they don't spit their dummy out when they hit the deck in a smoking wreck.
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So having fun is something laughable.
Got it, score and results uber alles.
Yet still talking abuot good fights, eh?
Whadda score chasing e-peen growing hypocrite you are.
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tried admirably to correct deb...
In your first post you told him he should kneel down before the three times ToC winner.
he walked away from a rational discussion over what transpired with films and objective input from others
As I recall, the general consensus of opinion was not that you were in the right but that you needed to have your head surgically removed from your own arse. I conjectured at the time that this procedure would be impossible.
but don't want to de-rail this thread so will be last post on this matter.
You already derailed it by taking yet another opportunity to poke at him by asserting the K-4 is once again easy mode. And some how you internalize this as only Debrody having a problem :rolleyes:
Debrody, stand tall. :salute
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I've started putting smilies at the end of sentences to indicate my poor attempts of humour but even with that help it gets overlooked. :(
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I've started putting smilies at the end of sentences to indicate my poor attempts of humour but even with that help it gets overlooked. :(
There was no smiley face in your comment to Debrody, you meant it. You are a long way from normal, well-balanced and reasonable so don't even try it.
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sure there was :P
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sure there was :P
Your earlier posts I can't say this about because I know you're deluded, but this ^ is a plain lie.
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(http://meinrap.de/community/images/smilies/connie_eatingpopcorn.gif)
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I can start a new thread if this is annoying to others. Just let me know.
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Well, the spit8 pilot is crying that the k4 is easy mode and the vulching tempon score padder is complaining about the runners? :rofl :rofl :aok
Go elsewhere, little buddy of middy, youre not welcome here
:banana:
oh and nice pms too, might care to post them on the public? :lol
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Oh boy, I'm thinking these might see light...
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uhm, exuse me, did not meant to unleash the fury
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uhm, exuse me, did not meant to unleash the fury
I'm a little puzzled by all this. However, I chuckled at your sarcasm regarding k4 as "easy mode" - the point, of course, being that Spit 8 is a platform that can make even me look good.
I was upping XIVs last week, just for laughs. You don't get many perks for kills in such. However, I was impressed at how much harder I feel I have to work in the g-14. The Spit enables a certain lack of planning - and that's probably why it was so successful. Even the XIV, with its high wingloading, gives you so much room for error in the vertical that it makes mediocre pilots good, good ones better. In the end, I go back to the G-14.
BTW, I think I'm in your time zone these next couple but, alas, the business of FoMoCo will be keeping me out of the arena. I probably wouldn't be a great match - but I'd probably learn a lot.
BTW, there is a notorious pair of perk-birders that tend to show up together in a Temp and an F4U-4, and always with alt...
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I'm a little puzzled by all this. However, I chuckled at your sarcasm regarding k4 as "easy mode" - the point, of course, being that Spit 8 is a platform that can make even me look good.
Ive recently had an ephiany concerning this kinda stuff. Its odd how many will make these accusations to shame others into flying planes with less capability, all the while flying late-war monster rides which have been deemed "acceptable" by these same individuals
The hypocrisy can be thick at times....so fly what you want, how you want and pay no attention to the peanut gallery. It's your 15 bucks....
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The K4 is easy mode, i was serious with this - however, the spit8/16 is almost like cheating. Turning in a 190 (any kind of 190), now thats pretty damn hard for me.
Might log on for some on wednesday or thursday though. Still super rusty as couldnt find a fight yet... trying to re-learn how to control the aircraft. Whats your in-game name, please?
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If you see me, I'll DA you Deb to knock that rust off faster than you can knock back palinka. :cheers:
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Thanks Dolby, would really appreciate that. Not drinking any more though, not a single beer since new years eve :)
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The K4 is easy mode, i was serious with this - however, the spit8/16 is almost like cheating. Turning in a 190 (any kind of 190), now thats pretty damn hard for me.
Might log on for some on wednesday or thursday though. Still super rusty as couldnt find a fight yet... trying to re-learn how to control the aircraft. Whats your in-game name, please?
FYI Deb: I wasn't referring to you with my last post. Anyone who turnfights as well as you do with a Dora earns respect. I know I can't do it well... :salute
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FYI Deb: I wasn't referring to you with my last post. Anyone who turnfights as well as you do with a Dora earns respect. I know I can't do it well... :salute
Oh man you havent even seen my turning Lady D ;)
couldnt fight my way out from a wet paper bag right now, btw.
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I think the biggest problem we mortals face when flying 51s, Doras, 47s, and the like is we get in the groove of flying them like other planes. Ive seen some incredible things done in these B@Z fighters and they were done by guys who fly them to the planes strengths not to their own personal habits. In other words they let the planes strengths dictate their strategy and not habits developed from flying other fighters.
Anyway a pretty good thread for anyone developing an interest in German iron. Unfortunately what little experience I have, besides 110s, have been with 109Ks where Ive had to get up to Bomber Alt fast and be able to hit them hard. I feel like Ive missed something not upping LW fighters more.
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The K4 is easy mode, i was serious with this - however, the spit8/16 is almost like cheating. Turning in a 190 (any kind of 190), now thats pretty damn hard for me.
Might log on for some on wednesday or thursday though. Still super rusty as couldnt find a fight yet... trying to re-learn how to control the aircraft. Whats your in-game name, please?
I'll PM you once I'm back in my home country (US). I'm thinking you can add to my repertoire in the 109.
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Oh man you havent even seen my turning Lady D ;)
couldnt fight my way out from a wet paper bag right now, btw.
Get back in the saddle man. :salute
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Kampfzerstorer!!: Literally "Battle Destroyer" or Heavy Fighter, but basically a multi-purpose aircraft combining the roles or heavy fighter, reconnaissance and ground attack.
Ju87 of course flown by the "Greatest Combat Pilot of all Time"<by far>.
Shot down some 32 times? ..................Lived!
"He flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and 9 aircraft which he shot down.
According to official Luftwaffe figures, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record). He was never shot down by another pilot, only by anti-aircraft artillery. He was shot down or forced to land 32 times, several times behind enemy lines, and was wounded a total of 5 times"
No Contest, :lol
:cheers:
The neutered 109F was the best and most fun.
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According to official Luftwaffe figures, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record). He was never shot down by another pilot, only by anti-aircraft artillery. He was shot down or forced to land 32 times, several times behind enemy lines, and was wounded a total of 5 times"
One of his legs did fall off though and he had to take almost a week off work. :old:
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One of his legs did fall off though and he had to take almost a week off work. :old:
He sat out the Battle of Britannia! :old:
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No Contest
If you believe him.
- oldman
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Sometimes I wonder if the maps in this game had bases that were at 10, 15, 20, 25K, and how it would affect game play. And how it would make certain airplanes shine more then they do.
I can honestly say the best fights Ive ever been in have used the entire air column, while in airplanes designed to do so. Just having one map like that in the mix would be fun. We'd see much more what the skies of Europe in WW2 were like. Imagine throwing night in there as well, or "close to night".
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Sometimes I wonder if the maps in this game had bases that were at 10, 15, 20, 25K, and how it would affect game play. And how it would make certain airplanes shine more then they do.
I can honestly say the best fights Ive ever been in have used the entire air column, while in airplanes designed to do so. Just having one map like that in the mix would be fun. We'd see much more what the skies of Europe in WW2 were like. Imagine throwing night in there as well, or "close to night".
I've brought up this night arena business before. Based on what I understand of the role of the nightfighters in WWII, it'd be a somewhat more abstract pursuit than our typical daylight loot and shoots. I also think its more of a team sport. Otoh, once the GIB manages to get the pilot in vicinity of the blip, things might turn more interesting - and what about spy versus spy? Consider the Black Widow versus the Uhu at night. Meanwhile, there is that Dogfights! episode about the use of sans radar P-40s at night...
But, don't be surprised if the office-chair brigade takes one hellacious dump on the idea - and they might even be right.
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Turning in a 190 (any kind of 190), now thats pretty damn hard for me.
Turning in the A8 requires you to land at an airfield, turn the plane by lifting its tail to desired direction and take off :banana:
Seriously, you can turn, but it feels like you throw out an anchor speed-wise doing it.
My 20 years of IRL flying experience is that its damned hard slow down even a radial yak for landing.