Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: tunnelrat on April 23, 2014, 01:55:52 PM
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So, I'm pretty familiar with how the different planes in Aces High fly - at least from an "On Paper" standpoint.... the FM2 is/was an exception to this rule.
As you can see, I blew it out my bellybutton here from the get-go... I am still getting both reaquainted with Aces High and with TrackIR in general.
Aside from the poor merge, I've been told I should have tried to utilize the speed/climb in the Ki-84 to get up on top and fight a more BnZ fight.
Any other advice/criticism/ridicule is invited.
http://www.twitch.tv/x80hd/c/4118401
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Other than in a dive, the Ki-84 should out class the FM-2 in all areas. In your case, a spiral climb would have been sufficient enough to get on top of the FM-2 and dictate the fight from the position of advantage.
ack-ack
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'Failed to load video'.
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'Failed to load video'.
Yeah, Twitch is balls sometimes. Takes a reload or two now and then.
Other than in a dive, the Ki-84 should out class the FM-2 in all areas. In your case, a spiral climb would have been sufficient enough to get on top of the FM-2 and dictate the fight from the position of advantage.
ack-ack
Yeah, that's what I thought... I tried keeping my nose up, thinking he'd eventually lose the energy fight that way, but I guess I am doing something wrong.
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ahf file?
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Yep... you lost it on the merge. The only thing the FM2 can do better than you is turn a tighter circle. Taking the fight vertical from the start would have likely seen him die or just head for the deck.
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Pick a fight with INK and tell him too put his money where his mouth is... challenge him to a DA session and record the beating he gives you.... watch film until your eyes bleed. Then find INK's sissy arse again and rinse repeat. :aok
All kidding aside find guys like INK who fly that bird exclusively and ask them too let you ride with them while they are in the MA or hit the TA / DA
:salute
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:rofl
:salute Dead....I am workin on my system now trying to get it to connect...once Its running,
ill be up for some Ki84 action... :joystick:
unless the Fm2 already has massive E he will not be able to follow you up...a spiral climb as AKAK says is great and what the KI excels at....you can hang on that prop unlike most others...except for the nasty fall backward stall...which is easy to get out of, just kill the engine :aok...I have seen my speeds drop below 60 MPH and still in full control :t
now if the FM2 has that massive e advantage...just de throttle and work an angle as he passes you by...the fast firing 20 mils of the KI make quick work of any fighter especially hitting at convergence...
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:rofl
:salute Dead....I am workin on my system now trying to get it to connect...once Its running,
ill be up for some Ki84 action... :joystick:
unless the Fm2 already has massive E he will not be able to follow you up...a spiral climb as AKAK says is great and what the KI excels at....you can hang on that prop unlike most others...except for the nasty fall backward stall...which is easy to get out of, just kill the engine :aok...I have seen my speeds drop below 60 MPH and still in full control :t
now if the FM2 has that massive e advantage...just de throttle and work an angle as he passes you by...the fast firing 20 mils of the KI make quick work of any fighter especially hitting at convergence...
Can't WAIT for you to get back, man!
I've been getting better at the angles, still a ways to go though. Thank you (all) for the insights!
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:salute
you wont have too long of a wait.....
I am psyched....I am connected and will be in DA shaking off some rust in a few moments. :rock
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:salute
you wont have too long of a wait.....
I am psyched....I am connected and will be in DA shaking off some rust in a few moments. :rock
:x
Kick ass! I won't be on until 7PM your time so don't burn out!
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Take the FM2 to the DA to see what it can do. I think I will do just that myself.
I got bounced by a FM2 the other day from below in a furball which I caught just in time. I went up in the Ki thinking this was going to be a piece of cake. I miss judged his E. A sprial as Ack suggested would have worked. I have used that in the 38 with some success in the past.
Fm2s are hard to hit for sloppy shooters like me.
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:rofl
:salute Dead....I am workin on my system now trying to get it to connect...once Its running,
ill be up for some Ki84 action... :joystick:
unless the Fm2 already has massive E he will not be able to follow you up...a spiral climb as AKAK says is great and what the KI excels at....you can hang on that prop unlike most others...except for the nasty fall backward stall...which is easy to get out of, just kill the engine :aok...I have seen my speeds drop below 60 MPH and still in full control :t
now if the FM2 has that massive e advantage...just de throttle and work an angle as he passes you by...the fast firing 20 mils of the KI make quick work of any fighter especially hitting at convergence...
Ill take inks spot if you want to meet in the DA sometime. I'll show you some advantages that the ki84 has over a "better" turning plane like the FM2 if you would like.
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Who was flying the FM2? I cant see the film for some reason.
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So, I'm pretty familiar with how the different planes in Aces High fly - at least from an "On Paper" standpoint.... the FM2 is/was an exception to this rule.
As you can see, I blew it out my bellybutton here from the get-go... I am still getting both reaquainted with Aces High and with TrackIR in general.
Aside from the poor merge, I've been told I should have tried to utilize the speed/climb in the Ki-84 to get up on top and fight a more BnZ fight.
Any other advice/criticism/ridicule is invited.
http://www.twitch.tv/x80hd/c/4118401
Man your frame rate was scary bad
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The gunnery skills of the FM2 pilot made me think it was me, but I haven't flown one of them in ages. If only the pilots that wind up on my 6 would shoot so poorly...
I agree with the rest. Going immediately for a turn fight with the FM2 was probably to worst thing you could do.
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I was surprised by how well the FM2 handled after a run in the DA. Reminds me of the D11 in someways.
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don't underestimate the FM2...............2 things you should always expect...the Spanish Inquisition and the FM2 to outperform your expectations.
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don't underestimate the FM2...............2 things you should always expect...the Spanish Inquisition and the FM2 to outperform your expectations.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition :old:
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Man your frame rate was scary bad
It's a $6,000 laptop with a Core i7 990x proc, 12 gigs of RAM, and SLi'd Geforce 580M's packing 4GB of video memory between them. I am sitting on a 30 up/30 down fiber optic pipe.
Dunno what I can do... I think I have object detail at minimum too hahahaha
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It's a $6,000 laptop with a Core i7 990x proc, 12 gigs of RAM, and SLi'd Geforce 580M's packing 4GB of video memory between them. I am sitting on a 30 up/30 down fiber optic pipe.
Dunno what I can do... I think I have object detail at minimum too hahahaha
you probably have a "economy" power mode activated somewhere, neutering the videocard
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you probably have a "economy" power mode activated somewhere, neutering the videocard
I will look into that... I don't think it's the case, but hey I did just reinstall from scratch a couple months ago, so who knows.
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Other than in a dive, the Ki-84 should out class the FM-2 in all areas. In your case, a spiral climb would have been sufficient enough to get on top of the FM-2 and dictate the fight from the position of advantage.
ack-ack
:aok
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Pick a fight with INK and tell him too put his money where his mouth is... challenge him to a DA session and record the beating he gives you.... watch film until your eyes bleed. Then find INK's sissy arse again and rinse repeat. :aok
I'll take that challenge and I'll fly the FM2. Never underestimate the Grumman Ironworks.
A spiral climb's a nice solution if the Grumman doesn't have E and is stupid enough to fall for it. What if he doesn't? What if he instead grabs E while the Ki losses his in the spiral climb?
Hell, I'll take that challenge in an F4F and I bet I'll give him a fight.
The Ki holds the cards but only if they're played right.
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I'll take that challenge and I'll fly the FM2. Never underestimate the Grumman Ironworks.
A spiral climb's a nice solution if the Grumman doesn't have E and is stupid enough to fall for it. What if he doesn't? What if he instead grabs E while the Ki losses his in the spiral climb?
Hell, I'll take that challenge in an F4F and I bet I'll give him a fight.
The Ki holds the cards but only if they're played right.
In some long ago test fights I did with another player, the A6M5b held the cards over the FM2 as well.
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In some long ago test fights I did with another player, the A6M5b held the cards over the FM2 as well.
Many planes do. The FM2 is a nice-handling plane, very deceptive because you don't expect it to be good, but it's not in the same class as most of the Japanese planes (Tony being an exception). At least this has been my general experience in AvA setups over the years.
- oldman
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I'll take an FM2 against any Japanese plane in the set except the Zeke. The FM 2 will out turn a N1k1, and it holds a speed advantage over the Ki 43. The Ki-84 is faster and can out-climb it, but I'm not going to go chasing after it like that, and here's the thing: too many people underestimate what the FM-2 is capable of. That's probably the biggest advantage.
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I'll take that challenge and I'll fly the FM2. Never underestimate the Grumman Ironworks.
A spiral climb's a nice solution if the Grumman doesn't have E and is stupid enough to fall for it. What if he doesn't? What if he instead grabs E while the Ki losses his in the spiral climb?
Hell, I'll take that challenge in an F4F and I bet I'll give him a fight.
The Ki holds the cards but only if they're played right.
equal pilots FM2 loses 99% of the time.
I'll take an FM2 against any Japanese plane in the set except the Zeke. The FM 2 will out turn a N1k1, and it holds a speed advantage over the Ki 43. The Ki-84 is faster and can out-climb it, but I'm not going to go chasing after it like that, and here's the thing: too many people underestimate what the FM-2 is capable of. That's probably the biggest advantage.
:lol
zeke is the easiest to kill....
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equal pilots FM2 loses 99% of the time.
:lol
zeke is the easiest to kill....
The late model Zeke does every single thing better than the Fm2 except dive, IIRC. It really is the worst case scenario for the Fm2.
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The late model Zeke does every single thing better than the Fm2 except dive, IIRC. It really is the worst case scenario for the Fm2.
except that the zekes are paper thin and burst into flames when you sneeze on them.....
I have found the ability to take a few rounds is far more important then "turning" a few feet faster.
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except that the zekes are paper thin and burst into flames when you sneeze on them.....
I have found the ability to take a few rounds is far more important then "turning" a few feet faster.
In a furball, agreed, and the durability is a nice cushion to have. I'll take an ounce of maneuverability over a pound of armor though. If he can get guns onto you, IMO you've kind of lost. I don't believe at all in giving them a poor shot that will connect. I'm a huge believer in giving them a poor shot that just misses.
The way I fly, the only time I want or generally even notice durability of my plane is attacking buffs.
Wiley.
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In a furball, agreed, and the durability is a nice cushion to have. I'll take an ounce of maneuverability over a pound of armor though. If he can get guns onto you, IMO you've kind of lost. I don't believe at all in giving them a poor shot that will connect. I'm a huge believer in giving them a poor shot that just misses.
The way I fly, the only time I want or generally even notice durability of my plane is attacking buffs.
Wiley.
I am glad you said "the way I fly"
same as I said "I have found"
your play style is opposite of mine...
durability is far more important to me.
durability of the Ki has saved me many times when fighting multi cons....
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It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it. Unless you manage your energy very carefully, you will end up slow and below. The other planes in the set that out-turn the FM don't have it's engine power, so you can stay above them and pound them into submission.
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It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it. Unless you manage your energy very carefully, you will end up slow and below. The other planes in the set that out-turn the FM don't have it's engine power, so you can stay above them and pound them into submission.
I can go on and on about how an FM2 will easily take on a zeke....(the high speed handling IE nose down fighting.....of the FM2 is just one way)
climb better then the FM2...fine...... but you certainly can not climb faster then the 50s in its wings. ;)
the zeros (everyone of them) are weak planes that take a very little punishment....they burst into flames..way to easy to make them "formidable".
a good Fm2 driver will use that to his advantage...
hell any good stick will use that against the zero...
10 years I have been fighting in AH and never have I felt the zeros a threat...
they were my first planes I flew because they can turn so good.....that don't matter when most can nose down and run away....and 1 ping puts you aflame.
the only time the zekes are "dangerous" is when they have friends.
EDIT
ill say IMO so anybody who may get their panties bunched up for me talking smack about their plane.... :uhoh
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Well, I'm no slouch in the FM 2 either, but co-alt, co-e, equal skill, a Zeke has distinct advantages. If I have alt over a zeke, it's dead. One on one, against a stick as good as me, it's a real challenge.
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Well, I'm no slouch in the FM 2 either, but co-alt, co-e, equal skill, a Zeke has distinct advantages. If I have alt over a zeke, it's dead. One on one, against a stick as good as me, it's a real challenge.
for sure....it does.....
I dont disagree with that....
but the FM2 has its own advantages and the good sticks know how to make use of those...
and the advantages of the zeke are not enough to compensate for the disadvantages.
its very rare you will find "equal pilots" "equal E" states in the MA (extremely rare actually)
I have a rare insight to cartoon dogfighting that most don't....yes even long term vets...(I am not saying I am the best by any means...but I know it takes the best to kill me....in a 1vs1)
my first 2 weeks playing AH with very little time in FA before...I was called a cheater...literally within my first 2 weeks....I have hundreds of cheater accusations since then....to me that is an indication of what I have accomplished in this silly game:-)
one of the rare guys that just took to it...
all I have done in AH since tour 52 is fly fighters....and fight against the numbers
I have maybe 30 sorties in things other then fighters....no joke..I have over 24,000 kills and 24,000+ of them are in fighters...
zero's are the least of my worries.....
as a matter of fact NO plane worries me....it is the stick that I am fighting NOT the plane....and then there is no "worry" for to me its all about the fight...and getting to be the best I can be.....and "I" can only get better by fighting those better then me.
when you are a noob the plane is far more important to your "winning" a fight then anything else....when the advantages and disadvantages are distinctly responsible for your winning or losing....
as you gain skills the plane becomes less important.... your ability to to judge the enemy E state.... your knowledge of ACM...the timing of ACM...is distinctly responsible for your winning or losing the fight.
holy crap wall O text..... :uhoh
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I have found the ability to take a few rounds is far more important then "turning" a few feet faster.
I fly the Fm2 a lot, and this encounter happens a lot. It's not "a few feet faster", it's a very significant superiority in turn rate combined with superiority in power/weight ratio. There is really nothing the Fm2 can do unless the Zeke makes a gross mistake. And it has to be a *very* gross mistake, and they have to be dead before they use their combo of turn rate and climb to get out of it. Even HO'ing is iffy-those 20mm on the Zeke are no picnic.
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It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it.
It IS that a Zeke can out turn an FM2. Per Mosq, the A6M5 has a sustained turn rate of 26.4dps compared to 22dps for the Fm2, along with a smaller radius. That's a huge rate of turn advantage.
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I would also say that in my experience, there are very *few* zero pilots who are actually dangerous enough to worry about. Thoughts like that keep this wildcat pilot warm at night. :D
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I concur with the other posts in the general theme of 'the vertical.'
What I've noticed with the 'turny birds' is that there is a tendency to take everything into the turn almost immediately. Stall fighting/vertical remains a big part of the match, since you are trading "e" for alt, which simply puts most of the "e" into the bank.
Also, in your defensive turn it strikes me that you didn't pull hard enough. You attempted rolling scissors, which is a great step for something like the 190, though the Ki-84 should be able to turn hard enough to force an overshoot of most birds, then roll.
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I'd like to see some duels between some guys that are good like Ink is at 1v1, in both FM2 and Zero, and then have them switch planes and rinse wash repeat. Shouldn't take longer than an hour, I know Ink and Latrobe live for this sort of stuff, and it would make a fantastic video for the help section for pilots of all skills and time.
GO ninja go ninja GO! (Vanilla Ice Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rap for positive waves).
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I'd like to see some duels between some guys that are good like Ink is at 1v1, in both FM2 and Zero, and then have them switch planes and rinse wash repeat. Shouldn't take longer than an hour, I know Ink and Latrobe live for this sort of stuff, and it would make a fantastic video for the help section for pilots of all skills and time.
GO ninja go ninja GO! (Vanilla Ice Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rap for positive waves).
:aok
would be quite fun :rock
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As already mentioned by others, the Zeke pretty much holds all the cards versus a FM2 (and F4F-3) in a 1 on 1 engagement. Historically, against the Zeke, the FM2 strengths were the use of team tactics and using those tactics could hold its own against and triumph over a Zeke.
ack-ack
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As already mentioned by others, the Zeke pretty much holds all the cards versus a FM2 (and F4F-3) in a 1 on 1 engagement. Historically, against the Zeke, the FM2 strengths were the use of team tactics and using those tactics could hold its own against and triumph over a Zeke.
ack-ack
....I am not a "history buff" but from what I recall they were ordered to HO and stay fast....using the frailness of the zeros against them.....
"team tactics" is a given on ANY battle we were in.
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Ink,
The problem is that if the A6M5 gets the FM2 alone there aren't anymore team tactics to use and the FM2's advantages against the A6M5 are considerably weaker than the A6M5's advantages over the FM2 in a one on one. Being tougher doesn't help if you can't avoid being shot and the enemy has more than enough firepower to destroy you. Great guns don't help, and his frailty doesn't hurt him, if you can't get those guns on him.
I've spent a lot of time in A6Ms in AH and while it is certainly no Ki-84, it is still quite capable when flown well.
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Ink,
The problem is that if the A6M5 gets the FM2 alone there aren't anymore team tactics to use and the FM2's advantages against the A6M5 are considerably weaker than the A6M5's advantages over the FM2 in a one on one. Being tougher doesn't help if you can't avoid being shot and the enemy has more than enough firepower to destroy you. Great guns don't help, and his frailty doesn't hurt him, if you can't get those guns on him.
I've spent a lot of time in A6Ms in AH and while it is certainly no Ki-84, it is still quite capable when flown well.
to quote you..."capable when flown well"
any plane (for the most part) is capable when flown well.
IMO the ability to take a good beating...is more important.
obviously if the differences in the planes performance is so far great then we are talking a huge difference...here I think the difference in performance don't out weigh the extreme differences in each planes ability to take damage.
which is extreme....each end of the scale.
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to quote you..."capable when flown well"
any plane (for the most part) is capable when flown well.
IMO the ability to take a good beating...is more important.
obviously if the differences in the planes performance is so far great then we are talking a huge difference...here I think the difference in performance don't out weigh the extreme differences in each planes ability to take damage.
which is extreme....each end of the scale.
You're reading too much into the "well flown" bit. A6Ms are reasonably effective when competently flown. More effective than many other fighters. I don't mean my the top 5% of players, I mean by the top 50% of players.
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IMO the ability to take a good beating...is more important.
In a duel, I don't think it's nearly as critical. I generally find he either has no shot, or you're dead. Minor damage doesn't factor in all that often IMO.
Wiley.
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I concur with the other posts in the general theme of 'the vertical.'
What I've noticed with the 'turny birds' is that there is a tendency to take everything into the turn almost immediately. Stall fighting/vertical remains a big part of the match, since you are trading "e" for alt, which simply puts most of the "e" into the bank.
Also, in your defensive turn it strikes me that you didn't pull hard enough. You attempted rolling scissors, which is a great step for something like the 190, though the Ki-84 should be able to turn hard enough to force an overshoot of most birds, then roll.
E (energy) is the combination of speed (kinetic energy) and altutude (potential energy). You can't trade E for altitude but you can trade the speed component of E for altitude. It's hard to decipher from your post if that's what you meant or if you meant that some planes can use excess HP to gain an altitude (E) advantage. I suspect the latter since you were talking about stall fighting.
As to the Zeke vs Grumman fight the Zeke is generally the better performer in the context that most consider (speed, climb rate, turn rate). Less evident the Zeke's probably still better in acceleration (excess HP), I'm unsure of low speed stability (both flaps in and flaps out) while the Grumman hold the cards in high speed roll rate and dive rate along with durability as Ink's already mentioned. Gun packages are approximately equal with hitting power going to the Zeke and rate of fire going to the Grumman.
If you can't exploit the few advantages the Grumman has the fight isn't lost. You have to instead exploit the pilot. Winning a defensive barrel roll, rolling scissor or brakes on overshoot are a few tricks in the bag that immediately come to mind and if the Zeke's on your six and you can't shake him simply keeping your wings out of plane with his might buy you the time to consider other options or for him to make a mistake.
The point being if you aren't considering every aspect of performance and ACM you're never going to beat a plane that's statistically better than the one your in and never going to progress as a virtual pilot.
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In my experience, your opponent's lack of durability cannot be exploited if you can't get the shot. A zero pilot who knows you're coming can easily avoid you, and if he climbs out, he can secure an energy advantage before you can get guns on him. I've dueled a few good zeke pilots and I can tell you, underestimating that plane, especially when you're flying an FM2, is a mistake, just as underestimating an FM2 is a mistake if you fly almost any other plane. :)
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Durability can most certainly decide the fight. The FM2 has to play the patience game. If he does and the Zero makes a mistake he'll light it on fire if his guns are aimed right.
That said, I'd probably want to be in the Zero in a 1v1. :)
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Only 1v1 fight I have ever lost in the Fm2 vrs a KI84 was against Ink. He didn't leave the fight unmarked or with a easy victory. He knows what hes talking about in other words:) Fm2 vrs a Zeke totally depends on alt of each aircraft and the guy behind the stick of each ac. Ive shot down the best Zeke pilots in the ma and have been owned by them the very next fight.
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Yeah, winning against the zeke is kind of dependent on e-states, but as I pointed out, co-alt and co-e with equal pilots, the zeke has an advantage.
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Yeah, winning against the zeke is kind of dependent on e-states, but as I pointed out, co-alt and co-e with equal pilots, the zeke has an advantage.
And just how often do you meet opponents co-alt and co-E with equal pilots?
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Only 1v1 fight I have ever lost in the Fm2 vrs a KI84 was against Ink. He didn't leave the fight unmarked or with a easy victory. He knows what hes talking about in other words:) Fm2 vrs a Zeke totally depends on alt of each aircraft and the guy behind the stick of each ac. Ive shot down the best Zeke pilots in the ma and have been owned by them the very next fight.
you sure as hell made me work for it....most other Fm2 drivers...pfft...easy peasy....they immediately start turning right away :t
you deployed that stuff...you know...that stuff that most dont want to learn...ACM..... :rock
:salute
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And just how often do you meet opponents co-alt and co-E with equal pilots?
Tuesday's and alternate Thursdays if the moon is full.
My point is simply that the zeke does have a performance edge over the FM 2. Pilot skill and e state can either negate or aggravate that advantage.
I don't really understand why this has to be such a debate. Every aircraft has a specific set of measurable qualities. Some are better,some are worse. Pilot skill and e- state can take those qualities out of the equation. Put a experienced pilot in an I-16 with altitude above a 262 taking off from a de-acked field flown by a noob with the situational awareness of Stevie Wonder and see what happens.
Is the zeke better than the FM2? Look at the performance numbers and judge for yourself. It has very specific advantages in climb rate, speed at most altitudes, and turning, and a big disadvantage in armor. So the zeke has an overall performance edge but an exploitable weakness. But that performance edge can be defeated if the FM2 pilot has better skills or an energy advantage.