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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on May 19, 2014, 03:11:38 PM

Title: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 19, 2014, 03:11:38 PM
Many things can make an airplane or a GV a Beast! Speed, firepower, maneuverability, bomb load, or a mix of the above.

I say the 109K4 is a Beast! I'd say the Jagdpanther is a Beast! I'd say the P-47M is a Beast! I'd say the TU-2 is a Beast!

What is a "Beast" to you?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 19, 2014, 03:20:19 PM
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ki_newest18-1.jpg) (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/fieldsofink/media/ki_newest18-1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 19, 2014, 03:34:38 PM
Im not sure what plane that is but i would consider the KI-84 worthy of "Beast"! consideration.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on May 19, 2014, 04:24:54 PM
B-17G.

Range

Defensive capabilities

Bomb Load

54 thousand pounds of awesome

(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/DMR77/B17Midland07_zpsf2161b45.jpg)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 19, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
Im not sure what plane that is but i would consider the KI-84 worthy of "Beast"! consideration.

 that would be the Ki84 :D


The King of Beasts. ;)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ebfd11 on May 19, 2014, 04:43:33 PM
190 A8

The reason is the gun package and if used properly then it is an awesome bomber killer and I have actually scored vehicle kills with it too

Lawndart
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: GScholz on May 19, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Lala-7 ... Hairy beast. Like a bear!
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Lusche on May 19, 2014, 04:58:40 PM
Often the beast is inside the cockpit...  :old:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 19, 2014, 05:15:36 PM
To me, the term "beast" is applied to something that hits hard, damned hard, plus has a bit of an uncontrollable edge to it.

In AH, I typically apply the term "beast" to the Typhoon most often.  The pair of 1000 lb bombs and the quad 20mm, coupled with the impressive speed and a bit of a handling quirk qualifies it for the title of "beast".  If you lose control you dont get it back.   :aok
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Saxman on May 19, 2014, 05:24:19 PM
F4U-4.

1) Among the fastest propeller fighters in any given altitude band.
2) Strong rates of climb and acceleration.
3) Solid gun package.
4) Large ordinance load.
5) Excellent maneuverability at both high and low speeds.
6) Superb combat flexibility, able to easily shift gears between close-quarters maneuvering fight and a high-speed energy engagement.
7) Sturdy airframe able to take a good amount of damage.

Let's face it, it's a Corsair that eliminates almost all of the type's main vices and makes its strengths even STRONGER.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: cobia38 on May 19, 2014, 05:32:27 PM
Often the beast is inside the cockpit...  :old:


 this ^^^
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: BaldEagl on May 20, 2014, 12:28:40 AM
FW190A-8.  The one and only.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: danny76 on May 20, 2014, 01:04:55 AM
To me, the term "beast" is applied to something that hits hard, damned hard, plus has a bit of an uncontrollable edge to it.

In AH, I typically apply the term "beast" to the Typhoon most often.  The pair of 1000 lb bombs and the quad 20mm, coupled with the impressive speed and a bit of a handling quirk qualifies it for the title of "beast".  If you lose control you dont get it back.   :aok

^^^ :old:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: bozon on May 20, 2014, 01:42:03 AM
F4U-4.
Yes, that is a beast.

Mosquito is the beauty :D
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: save on May 20, 2014, 02:23:14 AM
Mk103, best air-to air gun in the game.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TylerMac on May 20, 2014, 03:20:14 AM
The P-39, the Cadillac of the skies  :banana:   A little bit of E and underestimation go a long ways  :aok
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Xavier on May 20, 2014, 04:29:08 AM
Hurri MKIID...because it turns like a hurri, bites like an Il-2 and dies like a C-47  :uhoh
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 20, 2014, 04:37:30 AM
The Tempest is a Beast! The F4U-4 is a Beast! The Tiger-ll is a Beast! I think I'd call the Panther a Beast! too.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: artik on May 20, 2014, 05:41:34 AM
Me-262 - anybody?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Reaper90 on May 20, 2014, 05:51:13 AM
(http://warthunder.thefreeflightsimulatorgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Yak-9T-2.jpg)

Ruskie Taterz!  :x
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: olds442 on May 20, 2014, 06:12:14 AM
F4U-4.

1) Among the fastest propeller fighters in any given altitude band.
2) Strong rates of climb and acceleration.
3) Solid gun package.
4) Large ordinance load.
5) Excellent maneuverability at both high and low speeds.
6) Superb combat flexibility, able to easily shift gears between close-quarters maneuvering fight and a high-speed energy engagement.
7) Sturdy airframe able to take a good amount of damage.

Let's face it, it's a Corsair that eliminates almost all of the type's main vices and makes its strengths even STRONGER.

A spit 8 will out turn and out climb a U4
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Someguy63 on May 20, 2014, 08:12:47 AM
I think the K4 is a beast :banana:
At least with an uber pilot :old:

Normally they aren't piloted well, but whateva.

But, they can outclimb a F4U4, and could even catch one on the deck. Has better acceleration, and the 30mm in good hands, can be more deadly than 6 .50 cals.

 :salute
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Saxman on May 20, 2014, 08:22:28 AM
A spit 8 will out turn and out climb a U4

And?

The F4U-4 is much faster, has better top-end acceleration (18.6s 250-300 vs 22.3), a much bigger clip and hits harder once the Spit's 20mm are dry (which have only 9 seconds of firing time), hauls more ordinance, and takes more damage.

Nowhere did I say the -4 was the best climber or best turner.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Karnak on May 20, 2014, 09:21:15 AM
And?

The F4U-4 is much faster, has better top-end acceleration (18.6s 250-300 vs 22.3), a much bigger clip and hits harder once the Spit's 20mm are dry (which have only 9 seconds of firing time), hauls more ordinance, and takes more damage.

Nowhere did I say the -4 was the best climber or best turner.
12 seconds of fire for the Spit's cannons.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Saxman on May 20, 2014, 09:39:04 AM
You sure? This (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php) site gives 9 seconds for the Spit VIII unless something has changed.

Either way, three seconds of firing time doesn't change my point.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: GScholz on May 20, 2014, 10:10:42 AM
Dodging two hissos for 9 seconds is quite the challenge...
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Lusche on May 20, 2014, 10:31:20 AM
12 seconds of fire for the Spit's cannons.

You sure? This (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php) site gives 9 seconds for the Spit VIII unless something has changed.


I have yet another bid: 11 seconds  :)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 20, 2014, 10:42:27 AM
id take the Vlll over the -4 any day.

the speed advantage does one thing...allow it to run away....


but the KI-84 is the better dog fighter out of those...(at least IMO)

although the Spit-Vlll with a competent fighter at the helm is a very hard fight.

my list of "Beasts" (fighter mode only)

Ki-84(obviously my personal favorite)
pros.....extremely tough...very responsive...only thing it lacks is very high speed...but more then fast enough to keep up with the speed demons for a short time....
cons.....none
Spit-8-9-16...
pros....insane responsiveness....does everything good...
cons.....very weak
LA-7-
pros......very fast...climbs well...turn and responsiveness not so much....except in the hands of someone who A is a true fighter and B knows the plane well...
cons....crappy ammo ballistics...not much fuel.....not very tough
190D-
pros....very fast...incredible roll rate....lots of firepower
cons....very poor slow speed turning ability....weak
P51D-
pros....very fast....climbs great at high speed, maneuvers great at high speed...good guns
cons....slow speed responsiveness is very poor.....weak
Hurri2C-
pros...turns awesome..holds E well....dives well....some of the most powerful killing guns ingame.
cons....very slow....I mean snail slow....








Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 20, 2014, 11:35:28 AM
K4 is a beast
La-7 is a beast
Perk planes are beasts
The ki-43 is a beast
Trees are beasts
Tiger II's are beasts
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 20, 2014, 01:13:27 PM
Me-262 - anybody?

That thing is so Beastly! I dont think it even needed to be said. Just one Hun 30mm is Beastly! let alone 4. And then freakish, Beastly!, speed. Its more then a Beast! ; Its Godzwillla! Its capable of taking out 2 or 3 Heavies in one pass if it gets in on you.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Randy1 on May 20, 2014, 03:25:08 PM
Ki 84 easiest plane to get kills in the game and takes more hits and more damage than any other fighter. 

If you have never tried the ki, you will get kills right out of the box.  Probably should be a 2 weeker's choice to get kills quickly with little training.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 20, 2014, 05:20:19 PM
truly...... you dont need ACM or BFM...or anything...it flies itself and gets you the kills...all on its own. :rolleyes:





Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: GScholz on May 20, 2014, 05:30:39 PM
262 isn't a beast. It's a dark angel on PCP and speed.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Blinder on May 22, 2014, 08:56:09 PM
as far as in game and on the ground. This is the #1 beast.

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/019/a/7/king_tiger_by_woutart-d3reu6m.jpg)


The other day in the main someone upped one from a GV base to defend against us. There were at least 8 of us in 76 Sherms, T-34/85s, a T-34/76  and a few other types but nothing real heavy. I flanked him in an M18. I got close enough to see his suspension clear as day in my sights but I still had a nice safe berm to duck behind. He was busy  :ahand to my 7+ cohorts when I opened up.

I hit him no less than 8 times before he turned his attention on me. I wisely left my engine running and he missed with his first shot. I didn't stick around for his reload.

If I can get that kind of pucker factor in a simulation 70 years after the fact. I can only imagine how those Hellcat boys on the Western Front must have felt for real when they encountered this monster.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: GhostCDB on May 22, 2014, 09:16:49 PM
GhostCDB
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Slash27 on May 23, 2014, 12:53:50 AM
truly...... you dont need ACM or BFM...or anything...it flies itself and gets you the kills...all on its own. :rolleyes:


Must have been sparked pretty hard by a Hayate expert. I don't recognize him so I guess it must have been you.  :D
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 01:15:54 AM
Must have been sparked pretty hard by a Hayate expert. I don't recognize him so I guess it must have been you.  :D


 :uhoh

wasn't me......I dint do noffin....
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 23, 2014, 01:22:59 PM
Spent some time in the KI-84 last night. Its a wonderful airplane, and Beastly in some respects, yet I would not call it a Beast! Its is fully capable against any late war prop airplane, even a Beast! And thats whats so "Beastly" about it. The Hayate is capable of exploiting something against almost any adversary. Maybe if it was faster across a wide range of Alts, or had 4 20mms, it would be a Beast!

As it is its just Beastly good. A very well balanced airplane. Wasnt there a production version with more and/or bigger cannon?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 01:30:26 PM
Spent some time in the KI-84 last night. Its a wonderful airplane, and Beastly in some respects, yet I would not call it a Beast! Its is fully capable against any late war prop airplane, even a Beast! And thats whats so "Beastly" about it. The Hayate is capable of exploiting something against almost any adversary. Maybe if it was faster across a wide range of Alts, or had 4 20mms, it would be a Beast!

As it is its just Beastly good. A very well balanced airplane. Wasnt there a production version with more and/or bigger cannon?

4 20mm

and a 30 mm(although that is under question)

the thing that makes the Ki84 a beast is it is good to great in all aspects except in high speed, yet it is definitely NOT slow...

that and the ability to absorb rounds is what makes it truly "beastly"

Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 23, 2014, 01:39:04 PM
Well I wonder why we dont have the 4 20mm version then?

Yes its Beastly good. But still just a notch under being a true Beast! "Mind you I dont call the P51 a Beast! either".

The P-47M however...is.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
Well I wonder why we dont have the 4 20mm version then?

Yes its Beastly good. But still just a notch under being a true Beast! "Mind you I dont call the P51 a Beast! either".

The P-47M however...is.

only way you can call the P47M a beast(and have me agree is if you and me go to DA and you are able to Kill me ......at any ALT up to 25K....without resorting to the HO shot(I am NOT saying YOU are a HOer)

the Ki84 will easily beat any fighting P47. :salute


I will warn ya...I had someone who already said the 47 could "hold its own" against the Ki84

we went to the DA he died every time...I think like 14 times I killed him in a row.....all the way up to I believe 23K..(which admittedly it was harder for me up that high) not because I was that much better then him...because the P47 is just NOT the dogfighter the Ki84 is...period.


now if we are talking about "Beastly" in the ground attack role......

P47 wins hands down.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Latrobe on May 23, 2014, 02:55:59 PM
The 109F4 is the beastiest of all beast. There is nothing in the skies that can match it 1 on 1.  :devil
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Aspen on May 23, 2014, 03:03:09 PM
KI84 vs 109F is one of my favorite fights.

Just notice your sig Latrobe. Can't stop chuckling.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 03:13:48 PM
The 109F4 is the beastiest of all beast. There is nothing in the skies that can match it 1 on 1.  :devil

I would almost agree with you....

JOACH1M I fought against and couldn't really kill him...yet I got guns first a few times, but could not capitalize on it...and I didn't play the E-game....which is how you would defeat the 109F

besides the fact he is a very skilled dueler.... one of the very best.

once you get past a certain point in skill level, the plane almost becomes a non-factor...

thats why a fighting vet in a P40 can kill a noob in a spit16.

Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Randy1 on May 23, 2014, 03:26:28 PM
Well I wonder why we dont have the 4 20mm version then?

Yes its Beastly good. But still just a notch under being a true Beast! "Mind you I dont call the P51 a Beast! either".

The P-47M however...is.

The M is a beast when fighting down and or dominate E.  Kis beat the 47 by going up much the same as a K model do to suck the life out of the 47.  Its tempting if you have the E but it is one pass deal then either get the kill or pull away early to reset the fight.  As you know you can make a fight out of it but that weight of the 47 will be its downfall when the Ki keeps pulling the fight up.  The 47 is one of my two favorite planes so I understand your passion but I also know it has limitations that I all too often forget.  
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
Ki84 beats the 47 going Down or up....there is nothing the 47 can do against the Ki except HO it...and then if the stick in the KI is worth his salt...he will easily avoid it...

the only thing the 47 can do to avoid being killed by the Ki is run away.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Aspen on May 23, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
For how many approach flying in the MA, the 47M is a beast.  Fast, lots of guns, lots of ammo, dives away great and capable against the planes that can can catch it.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 23, 2014, 06:11:02 PM
the only thing the 47 can do to avoid being killed by the Ki is run away.

Or do some of that pilot s#!t. I've seen tail slides that would make a 109 turn green with envy.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 07:03:46 PM
Or do some of that pilot s#!t. I've seen tail slides that would make a 109 turn green with envy.



 :rofl

people have tried those "tricks" with me......

and died right after....I faced the best there is in the 47....and he died...even with his silly little tail slides. ;)

it actually makes it easier to kill them.... :rofl
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Debrody on May 23, 2014, 07:24:00 PM
190 D-9
turns well
has fine guns, also a load of ammo
can fly far with reduced throttle
has nice flaps and rudder
handles like a boss in the post-stall
lalas cannot run away that easily

and looks nice...

Hands down  :old:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Debrody on May 23, 2014, 07:27:03 PM

 :rofl

people have tried those "tricks" with me......

and died right after....I faced the best there is in the 47....and he died...even with his silly little tail slides. ;)

it actually makes it easier to kill them.... :rofl
ok ki84 vs p47 in a close turnfight is not really fair.
i have tried those tricks too, 109 vs ki, i guess we were pretty close. Yea both the 109s and the ki84 handle beautifully.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 23, 2014, 07:31:51 PM
ok ki84 vs p47 in a close turnfight is not really fair.
i have tried those tricks too, 109 vs ki, i guess we were pretty close. Yea both the 109s and the ki84 handle beautifully.

absolutely right....47 vs Ki84 is not a fair fight.... :aok

Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: HighTone on May 23, 2014, 09:25:30 PM
A6M3 is a beast. All other planes are a ton of suckage against it.

Except all other Japanese planes of course.

 :airplane:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 23, 2014, 09:28:03 PM
A6M3 is a beast. All other planes are a ton of suckage against it.

Except all other Japanese planes of course.

 :airplane:

Was going to say, doesn't the Ki-43 pretty much beat the crap out of the A6M's?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: MK-84 on May 23, 2014, 11:07:47 PM
Ahem...

(http://www.planet-9.com/attachments/general-off-topic/25622d1345392595-mr-smith-goes-washington-achtung-baby.jpg)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 24, 2014, 01:52:57 AM
Ahem...

(http://www.planet-9.com/attachments/general-off-topic/25622d1345392595-mr-smith-goes-washington-achtung-baby.jpg)

incredibly easy to avoid 1vs1....

but yes in the right hands...there is nothing as beastly.... :joystick:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Zacherof on May 24, 2014, 01:58:58 AM
id take the Vlll over the -4 any day.

the speed advantage does one thing...allow it to run away....


but the KI-84 is the better dog fighter out of those...(at least IMO)

although the Spit-Vlll with a competent fighter at the helm is a very hard fight.

my list of "Beasts" (fighter mode only)

Ki-84(obviously my personal favorite)
pros.....extremely tough...very responsive...only thing it lacks is very high speed...but more then fast enough to keep up with the speed demons for a short time....
cons.....none
Spit-8-9-16...
pros....insane responsiveness....does everything good...
cons.....very weak
LA-7-
pros......very fast...climbs well...turn and responsiveness not so much....except in the hands of someone who A is a true fighter and B knows the plane well...
cons....crappy ammo ballistics...not much fuel.....not very tough
190D-
pros....very fast...incredible roll rate....lots of firepower
cons....very poor slow speed turning ability....weak
P51D-
pros....very fast....climbs great at high speed, maneuvers great at high speed...good guns
cons....slow speed responsiveness is very poor.....weak
Hurri2C-
pros...turns awesome..holds E well....dives well....some of the most powerful killing guns ingame.
cons....very slow....I mean snail slow....









You forgot the jug :cry
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Randy1 on May 24, 2014, 06:25:42 AM

. . .the only thing the 47 can do to avoid being killed by the Ki is run away.

Not sure why you consider pulling away from a fight to take advantage of a planes attributes is bad.  People whine about the 51 in the same way.  I tried to engage you twice a couple of weeks ago and both times you went up.  Was that bad?  Of course not.  You played to your planes best side.  When you went up, I pulled away to reset.  Why is bad if I avoid a turn fight with a Ki and the Ki is going up?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 24, 2014, 02:52:33 PM
Not sure why you consider pulling away from a fight to take advantage of a planes attributes is bad.  People whine about the 51 in the same way.  I tried to engage you twice a couple of weeks ago and both times you went up.  Was that bad?  Of course not.  You played to your planes best side.  When you went up, I pulled away to reset.  Why is bad if I avoid a turn fight with a Ki and the Ki is going up?

never said it was "bad"... ;)

well it would be bad...if you had...
which you have learned.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: MK-84 on May 24, 2014, 06:42:23 PM
incredibly easy to avoid 1vs1....

but yes in the right hands...there is nothing as beastly.... :joystick:

Oh I totally agree.  But when you're up against one and the pilot of the 262 is making his passes at you at an almost vertical degree and zooming back up and quickly reversing again you feel a special kind of helplessness.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 25, 2014, 07:07:57 PM
I need to add to the list...and maybe put it right on top.....

last night I was fighting the gang and as typical they mostly just HO even 5 or more on just me....

so I get sick of it and remembering a plane I recently flew......

ok you suckers wanna HO...fine...lets play the Hoing game....

after I get to the fight...within a few minutes 5 HOers are now wondering why they flew face first and HOed a ME 410....

I mean c'mon gents...6 20mm and 1500 rounds of ammo....

yes please point your nose at me in your little 51.

I found my new rage plane.... :rofl
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Karnak on May 25, 2014, 07:16:31 PM
It is surprising the planes that will HO a Mossie.  Every single Me262 kill I have was scored in a Mossie that an Me262 did an HO with.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 26, 2014, 02:46:40 AM
It is surprising the planes that will HO a Mossie.  Every single Me262 kill I have was scored in a Mossie that an Me262 did an HO with.


 :huh Who is dumb enough to ho a mossie, or anything for that matter, in 262?

Were there any extenuating circumstances, or did they just fly right into your guns?
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Charge on May 26, 2014, 05:17:21 AM
"Who is dumb enough to ho a mossie"

A 410 jock with MK103s?  :cool:

-C+
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: GScholz on May 26, 2014, 05:41:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xYfNhUNwkY  :aok
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: -ammo- on May 26, 2014, 10:15:23 AM
absolutely right....47 vs Ki84 is not a fair fight.... :aok



Pure propaganda :old:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Coalcat1 on May 26, 2014, 10:49:09 AM
KI61 is a beast, 2 very good nose mounted 20mms and 2 HE 50 cals. Turns very easly with every spit, climbs with most spits, can keep up with most spits and can carry 2 550lb bombs.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Someguy63 on May 26, 2014, 10:52:02 AM
KI61 is a beast, 2 very good nose mounted 20mms and 2 HE 50 cals. Turns very easly with every spit, climbs with most spits, can keep up with most spits and can carry 2 550lb bombs.

This man has gone mad, I'd rather fly a Ki84. :old:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: save on May 26, 2014, 10:53:49 AM
INK, try the 410 with mk103, they reach out and touch beyond pesky Hispano's range, and one bullet is enough for a wooden cross, even against 2-engined big fighters like Mossie.
against a Zeke, can you say "confetti" ?  :banana:
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Coalcat1 on May 26, 2014, 10:54:52 AM
This man has gone mad, I'd rather fly a Ki84. :old:
   The KI61 has a more deadly gun package, while the KI84 is a slightly better AC
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Someguy63 on May 26, 2014, 11:08:10 AM
   The KI61 has a more deadly gun package, while the KI84 is a slightly better AC

Is prefer better aircraft over gun package…most of the time. :)
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 26, 2014, 12:34:51 PM
INK, try the 410 with mk103, they reach out and touch beyond pesky Hispano's range, and one bullet is enough for a wooden cross, even against 2-engined big fighters like Mossie.
against a Zeke, can you say "confetti" ?  :banana:


Problem with the 410 is they are made out of confetti and dead meat against ANY fighter. But yeah if you catch some Bombers you can toss basketballs at them from a safe range. The 410 was a let down, "then again it kinda was in real life too". But I did expect it to be a little tougher, more like an improved 110.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: bozon on May 26, 2014, 01:29:23 PM

 :huh Who is dumb enough to ho a mossie, or anything for that matter, in 262?

Were there any extenuating circumstances, or did they just fly right into your guns?
You'd be surprised who will gamble a HO with a mossie. On top of the numerous 262s and F4U-4s that died to a HO, I had Brewsters and KI-43s that tried to HO me. No extenuating circumstances either, come right at you even when the mossie is low, slow and BnZed by two other planes. Nothing you can do except laugh hard and pull the trigger...

I'm sure Save can tell you many stories about little nimble mg-armed planes that thought taking a 190A8 HO was a good idea.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Karnak on May 26, 2014, 01:38:07 PM

 :huh Who is dumb enough to ho a mossie, or anything for that matter, in 262?

Were there any extenuating circumstances, or did they just fly right into your guns?
Flew right into my guns.

They almost always get me too (once we were even both awarded a kill on the other), but given how much I dislike the effect an Me262 has on a fight I think sacrificing my 30 ENY Mosquito to kill a 200 perk point Me262 is worth it.

"Who is dumb enough to ho a mossie"

A 410 jock with MK103s?  :cool:

-C+

Yeah, I won't HO an Me410.  I don't like HOing and if I can kill something as easy as I can an Me410 without HOing it, why do so?  The fact that the Me410 is the only thing with a better air-to-air gun package than the Mossie just emphasizes that I shouldn't HO it.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 26, 2014, 02:37:13 PM
INK, try the 410 with mk103, they reach out and touch beyond pesky Hispano's range, and one bullet is enough for a wooden cross, even against 2-engined big fighters like Mossie.
against a Zeke, can you say "confetti" ?  :banana:


nice..I will  :t
Problem with the 410 is they are made out of confetti and dead meat against ANY fighter. But yeah if you catch some Bombers you can toss basketballs at them from a safe range. The 410 was a let down, "then again it kinda was in real life too". But I did expect it to be a little tougher, more like an improved 110.

in a turn fight yup...but when most in the MA want to play the HO game.....

I am done....tired of it actually....so screw it...

let the HO games begin. :t
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Wiley on May 26, 2014, 02:40:21 PM
nice..I will  :t
in a turn fight yup...but when most in the MA want to play the HO game.....

I am done....tired of it actually....so screw it...

let the HO games begin. :t

If you haven't tried it, the 110 serves excellently in that role, and handles quite a bit better. ;)

Wiley.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: LCADolby on May 26, 2014, 02:42:36 PM
I consider any plane piloted by a beast, a beast.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: ink on May 26, 2014, 02:43:46 PM
If you haven't tried it, the 110 serves excellently in that role, and handles quite a bit better. ;)

Wiley.

ya I have flown the 110 but then I tried out turning everything... :rofl


its the whole 6..20mm....devastating gun package...

hell I flew the Hurri2 with the 4 20's for years and always considered that the best gun package or close to the best....

6 20.....oh baby I just got wood :devil
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Charge on May 27, 2014, 04:32:25 AM
The 410 was a let down, "then again it kinda was in real life too".

Oh? And where did you get that kind of idea? The problem with 410 was that bomber pilots did not want it. It was fast all right but it made no sense to fly a long way and drop such a small load.
As a fighter it was effective unless hampered by rockets or Bk5. Once the MK103 was tested operationally Galland recommeded ordering all the fighters with MK103 rather than Bk5. The single seater with GM-1 was not popular as the stock version had better than anticipated performance up high and the tail gunner was more valuable than extended operating time.

"Yeah, I won't HO an Me410.  I don't like HOing and if I can kill something as easy as I can an Me410 without HOing it, why do so?"

Indeed, it turned out much different what I anticipated, didn't it. Can't turn a crap due to weight and falls to pieces like a lightweight balsa plane. Interesting combination. I'd say its a bug but what do I know.

-C+



Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Rich46yo on May 27, 2014, 08:01:08 AM
Quote
Oh? And where did you get that kind of idea? The problem with 410 was that bomber pilots did not want it. It was fast all right but it made no sense to fly a long way and drop such a small load.
As a fighter it was effective unless hampered by rockets or Bk5. Once the MK103 was tested operationally Galland recommeded ordering all the fighters with MK103 rather than Bk5. The single seater with GM-1 was not popular as the stock version had better than anticipated performance up high and the tail gunner was more valuable than extended operating time.

I dont think anyone wanted it. It was effective as a fighter unless other "fighters" were around. Which tended to happen quite a bit by the time it was operational. Which is probably why they ceased production of the 410 after a little over 1,000 air frames were produced. It ended up as a recce plane. Sounds like a let down to me.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Charge on May 27, 2014, 08:44:52 AM
"I dont think anyone wanted it. It was effective as a fighter unless other "fighters" were around. Which tended to happen quite a bit by the time it was operational."

Agreed, its survivability was not as good as that of, say, FW190A8 "Sturmbock" and while it was a jack of all trades it was not the best choice for anything considering the strategic situation.

"Which is probably why they ceased production of the 410 after a little over 1,000 air frames were produced.  It ended up as a recce plane. Sounds like a let down to me."

Yes and no. It was cancelled because the bomber (and NF) roles were much better covered by Ju88 and its later models and the problem with survivability against single engine fighters at that stage of war (which eventually became a problem for single engine fighters as well). Add to that that German HC had to cut down the production of different variants due to growing difficulties in production and lack of materials. The remaining 410s were used for recce and maritime operations where the attrition was not as great as in front line units and due to 410's survivability and speed. Another excellent fighter that was also facing the termination was He219 despite its qualities.

As a heavy fighter the 410 was much better than Bf110 in terms of speed, survivability and armament, both offensive and defensive. The replacement for 410 was considered to be Do335 which performance was considered better. To me it tells quite a bit of the qualities of 410.

-C+

Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Karnak on May 27, 2014, 10:39:53 AM
Indeed, it turned out much different what I anticipated, didn't it. Can't turn a crap due to weight and falls to pieces like a lightweight balsa plane. Interesting combination. I'd say its a bug but what do I know.

-C+
Heh.  It handles almost exactly like I expected it to, though it is a bit more fragile than I thought it would be.  The Me410's wing loading is very high so I never had any doubts that it would be an easy kill.  The Mosquito is simply a superior aircraft compared to the Me410.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: save on May 27, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
I take a 410 any day against unescorted 4-engined bombers,compared with the Mossie, also the 410 can out-dive quite a few of its enemies, the Mossie should probably be one of them.

The Mossie seems unprotected against defensive 13mms from front, giving the pilot a PW very easy. whereas you normally get oiled or lose guns in the 410.


Its the only plane I know of in the plane-set that a Fw190A8/F8 can out-turn.
The TU2, for example, seems like its jet-powered compared with the 410,in its manoeuvres, how the difference can be this big I do not know.

(http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Tu-2/Tu2_4.jpg)



Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 27, 2014, 11:55:00 AM
Heh.  It handles almost exactly like I expected it to, though it is a bit more fragile than I thought it would be.  The Me410's wing loading is very high so I never had any doubts that it would be an easy kill.  The Mosquito is simply a superior aircraft compared to the Me410.

I don't see how the mosquito being better or worse factors into the 410 being a beast. The F4U-4 is the best prop fighter in the game, but I don't see you comparing every other fighter to it.
Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: save on May 27, 2014, 11:59:42 AM
to be a beast, you can have different assets that make it best in its category.
Try to attack 10 b-17s flying in a group, the F4u4 and compare it with a ME410 doing the same and the results would be reversed.

Title: Re: What do you consider a Beast! ?
Post by: Karnak on May 27, 2014, 01:28:56 PM
I don't see how the mosquito being better or worse factors into the 410 being a beast. The F4U-4 is the best prop fighter in the game, but I don't see you comparing every other fighter to it.
I was responding to Save's observations about the Me410, not the thread title.

I take a 410 any day against unescorted 4-engined bombers,compared with the Mossie, also the 410 can out-dive quite a few of its enemies, the Mossie should probably be one of them.
I'd be comfortable in either, but those MK103s are so very nice.  I've done well in the Mossie as such, but they both suck at high altitude.  Mossie 30 would be nice for that.

Quote
The Mossie seems unprotected against defensive 13mms from front, giving the pilot a PW very easy. whereas you normally get oiled or lose guns in the 410.
It is armored, but it sometimes doesn't feel like it. It is better than the original released Mossie, but still seems to take excessive pilot wounds.  I've noticed the same effect in the P-38s and Bf110s.  I haven't spend enough time in the A-20s or Me410, but it seems like something perhaps caused by not having an engine in front of you in the damage model.

Quote
Its the only plane I know of in the plane-set that a Fw190A8/F8 can out-turn.
The TU2, for example, seems like its jet-powered compared with the 410,in its manoeuvres, how the difference can be this big I do not know.
Both of these come back to wing loading.  So far as I know the only plane in AH that has higher wingloading than the Me410 is the B-29A.  The often requested A-26 will also have similarly high wing loading so that will be interesting to see the outcome of.