Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Erkel on June 07, 2014, 03:29:16 PM

Title: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 07, 2014, 03:29:16 PM
Where has everyone gone?
Why are the numbers down so low?
Here it is, Saturday afternoon and 115 players "in flight" in the Main Arena...

Is there a party going on somewhere and I wasn't invited???
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 03:39:25 PM
Here it is, Saturday afternoon and 115 players "in flight" in the Main Arena...

Is there a party going on somewhere and I wasn't invited???

Yes.

More than 100 players in the SEA, flying in the current scenario (http://pacificwar.wordpress.com/)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 07, 2014, 05:49:33 PM
Well by George, there was a party.  Arena has 211 in it now.

But seriously, I KNOW more players than just myself have noticed a serious drop in player numbers because we've talked about it in game.  Especially low numbers for the "night crew". 
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 05:52:05 PM
That the overall numbers have taken a serious drop (which is of course more notable at times with traditionally lower population) is not disputed at all. Just was pointing out that there indeed was a party you haven't been invited to (but now you are  :D)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: GhostCDB on June 07, 2014, 05:57:00 PM
That the overall numbers have taken a serious drop (which is of course more notable at times with traditionally lower population) is not disputed at all. Just was pointing out that there indeed was a party you haven't been invited to (but now you are  :D)

 :lol
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: jeffn on June 07, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
Its summer time guy,,,,,tons of things to do. Get outside and enjoy the weather and views.

Numbers always low in the summer months.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 06:38:39 PM
Its summer time guy,,,,,tons of things to do. Get outside and enjoy the weather and views.

Numbers always low in the summer months.

It really would be great if it were so...
but it ain't.

;)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: FLOOB on June 07, 2014, 07:45:38 PM
Well since Aces High II hasn't been around in years I'd say yes.  :neener:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 07:47:56 PM
Well since Aces High II hasn't been around in years I'd say yes.  :neener:

 :huh  :headscratch:

...good point  :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: ghi on June 07, 2014, 08:49:58 PM
I logged in for few min, first time in a week,  same large boring maps over the weekend  200+bases and 100 players; The game goal is set like in first person shooter not for MMO, rewarding players not teams;   strategy was slowly eliminated from this game with huge maps, towns and bases more and more difficult/ impossible  to capture, there's nothing left to win as a team, even the achievements are computer generated ;
 What for to play? strategy was eliminated and can't find a furball on this endless maps, the only think left is this abused childish selfish score system posted on front page;
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: flatiron1 on June 07, 2014, 09:00:26 PM
midwar is there waiting with smaller maps, just need more players. Nice tank towns waiting also.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 09:06:36 PM
What for to play? strategy was eliminated

There never was much strategy in AH at all. Smaller towns and higher radar level just meant higher rate of captures per hour - but not more "strategy". It was and still is "grab as many random bases as possible", no higher strategy required or implied.
Actually, with the old war victory rules it was even less strategy, as you even did not have to fight against both enemy countries to win.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 09:09:49 PM
midwar is there waiting with smaller maps, just need more players. Nice tank towns waiting also.

I was in MW for a change today. Reminded me of the EW of old - 0 players on Rooks (I was the first rook to enter), 3 on Bish and 6 on Knight.
Now guess where Bish and Knights were "fighting"...  :devil


But more seriously, the fewer players AH has overall, the smaller the chance you get any players to the minor arenas at all.

I still remember 100 players in MW at peak times  :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Latrobe on June 07, 2014, 09:11:46 PM
There never was much strategy in AH at all. Smaller towns and higher radar level just meant higher rate of captures per hour - but not more "strategy". It was and still is "grab as many random bases as possible", no higher strategy required or implied.
Actually, with the old war victory rules it was even less strategy, as you even did not have to fight against both enemy countries to win.

I remember those days! Back when you needed to get 1 country down to 5 bases left and the one with the most bases won. Was kind of fun racing the other country to see who got those bases, but totally unbalanced way to win the war.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: ink on June 07, 2014, 11:22:56 PM
There never was much strategy in AH at all. Smaller towns and higher radar level just meant higher rate of captures per hour - but not more "strategy". It was and still is "grab as many random bases as possible", no higher strategy required or implied.
Actually, with the old war victory rules it was even less strategy, as you even did not have to fight against both enemy countries to win.

the strategy for me is in the fight....how can I best him....kill him as quick as possible with out giving him a chance to kill me....

and every fight is different...every player is different so there is NO end to mastering the "strategy" of the dog fight. :rock

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: shotgunneeley on June 07, 2014, 11:29:35 PM
Fairly certain I saw something like 230 players in the LW main and 250 in an SEA (FSO i guess) last night around 9pm CST. Was impressed to see those numbers again.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 07, 2014, 11:42:48 PM
the strategy for me is in the fight....how can I best him....kill him as quick as possible with out giving him a chance to kill me....

and every fight is different...every player is different so there is NO end to mastering the "strategy" of the dog fight. :rock



But that's not the strategy GHI is talking about.
I think what you describe are actually tactics...

And yes, I do wish there was more "true strategy" in AH... but seeing day in day out how many players fail even at basic darbar interpretation, I'm not sure if it would be a good idea  :noid
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bozon on June 08, 2014, 04:30:19 AM
midwar is there waiting with smaller maps, just need more players. Nice tank towns waiting also.
I love the midwar plane setup. The problem is that splitting the small population into multiple arenas will make the problem even worse. Some maps simply need to be taken out of the rotation, like all those with 255 bases (yes Compello, I am looking at you!).
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: pipz on June 08, 2014, 04:56:05 AM
We need bigger maps!  :old:  ;)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: flatiron1 on June 08, 2014, 05:35:31 AM
I was in MW for a change today. Reminded me of the EW of old - 0 players on Rooks (I was the first rook to enter), 3 on Bish and 6 on Knight.
Now guess where Bish and Knights were "fighting"...  :devil


But more seriously, the fewer players AH has overall, the smaller the chance you get any players to the minor arenas at all.

I still remember 100 players in MW at peak times  :old:


if all the large map  whiners would come to MW it would be good.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 08, 2014, 08:45:42 AM
I logged in for few min, first time in a week,  same large boring maps over the weekend  200+bases and 100 players; The game goal is set like in first person shooter not for MMO, rewarding players not teams;   strategy was slowly eliminated from this game with huge maps, towns and bases more and more difficult/ impossible  to capture, there's nothing left to win as a team, even the achievements are computer generated ;
 What for to play? strategy was eliminated and can't find a furball on this endless maps, the only think left is this abused childish selfish score system posted on front page;

The "strategy" is still there, it is up to the player to USE strategy.

You have 30 players looking to join your mission as everyone know GHI runs missions. As the leader you have a choice, heavy fighter for everyone and try to hit one base with your horde, OR use strategy to fake, mislead, prep and/or take multiple bases.

Send out 2, 3 man teams to the north to de-ack two different fields. At the same time launch 2-3 buffs to hit the chosen base in the north (one of the two that will be de-acked), at the same time launch a goon to mirror the Buffs trail but staying low. The other 20 player up heavy fighters to hit a 3rd base AWAY from the other 2 in the plan. As your wave loses planes have them wait in the tower until you have 10 and then launch 5 heavy fighter and 5 lite fighters to head to the chosen field in the north. They will arrive about the same time as the buffs hit the town and VH. heavy fighter clean up to WF, all fighters cap as goon makes his run.

The first choice is no strategy and is just another horde mission. The second uses more strategy drawing the enemy in 3 directions. It should also result in a base capture while providing a challenge to players on both sides. More challenge = more fun.

 
the strategy for me is in the fight....how can I best him....kill him as quick as possible with out giving him a chance to kill me....

and every fight is different...every player is different so there is NO end to mastering the "strategy" of the dog fight. :rock



if they tried capturing bases as outlined above, wouldn't that make more opportunities for players like you to fight?
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 08, 2014, 10:06:09 AM
But that's not the strategy GHI is talking about.
I think what you describe are actually tactics...

And yes, I do wish there was more "true strategy" in AH... but seeing day in day out how many players fail even at basic darbar interpretation, I'm not sure if it would be a good idea  :noid

there should also be strong consideration to the fact that many players play independently.  waiting ten to twenty minutes or bailing to join a defence or attack is almost non existant in game. then when strategy is used the greedy soloists complain of spoiling the fun.  Frustration ensues from a lack of cooperation, attempts at using strategy with out the required numbers and timing leads to failure,  and the comunity degrades from a lack of "fun".  This is especially true for newbs and poor skill players.

Simply put, a lack of missions to make the game more immersive.  but also, the shear size of the maps in our one and only late war arena.  With low numbers i still cant be everywhere, and can only do one fight at a time.  I would like to see more LW arenas to allow each room to develop a different culture, and give each team more freedom to implement their own strategy.  Remember, nobody likes getting shot down, and nobody likes loosing.  The selfish one who care less and just kills are simply bonus cash in the bank.  If we want to have a LARGE comunity there must be a good chance for everyone to have fun.  Lets not forget whats awesome, not just being the top ace, but playing a kick butt video game with lots of other dweebs.

 :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: 68ZooM on June 08, 2014, 11:02:00 AM
like another person said it's summertime man people are out hiking camping fishing, its 9 a.m. Where I'm at on a Sunday morning not a cloud in the sky and it's supposed to be the upper 80's I'm loading up the Mastercraft then heading up to the water for a day of wakeboarding and babes in bikini's tops and daisy dukes  :devil
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 08, 2014, 12:19:31 PM
like another person said it's summertime man people are out hiking camping fishing, its 9 a.m. Where I'm at on a Sunday morning not a cloud in the sky and it's supposed to be the upper 80's I'm loading up the Mastercraft then heading up to the water for a day of wakeboarding and babes in bikini's tops and daisy dukes  :devil

We didn't have summers before? ;)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: uptown on June 08, 2014, 12:56:55 PM
Speaking on the strategy thing....I did notice since my return to the game a couple days ago, that the map we currently have up in Late War, that the strat factories are spread out now and not clumped into one small area. Have they did the same with the rest of the maps or just this current one? I like the spread out factory layout and think it adds to the strategy of the game somewhat. Certainly more than having everything in one spot.




and Pipz you're a funny guy.....bigger maps  :furious                   :lol



Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 08, 2014, 04:44:31 PM

Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?


Yes.

It may lie in death throws for years to come. It may even grow again, but if the only "improvements" to the game are to be graphics and a couple new a/c a year, then it will be like the tictactoe or checkers of the mmo industry...  It was fun until you learned the strategy never changes and it never gets any better.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 08, 2014, 05:09:18 PM
Well since Aces High II hasn't been around in years I'd say yes.  :neener:

I don't understand what you're saying here.  I've been playing Aces High II for close to 7 years.  Know of others who've claimed to have played for 10 or more.  I don't know exactly when AHII appeared but it HAS been around for years...

There never was much strategy in AH at all.

I don't agree.  Strategy lies within the PLAYERS and the game's IMMENSE content ALLOWS for TRUE battle strategy.  Hording is one form of strategy to win a capture.  Utilizing strategy that comes with the wisdom of age, a SINGLE player, in a SINGLE sortie, can change the course of an all day battle into a quick conquest.  I KNOW this to be true.  I'm 62 years old and MANY times have flown a single sortie that has resulted in the quick capture of a base where a battle has raged for hours, even days.

Flying around your own base, shooting down enemy planes is an effective but, more often than not, short-lived defense.  REAL defense is to take the battle to the enemy through offensive action.

"Youth and strength are no match for old age and treachery"

There HAS been a disadvantage using an offensive action as a defensive strategy though.  Often times, even though the enemy has been seriously compromised to where a capture could be easy, MANY players will ignore the potential for capture and leave that fight because there aren't enough enemy planes flying around for them to shoot at...
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: FLOOB on June 08, 2014, 05:29:25 PM
Im not sure which year aces high stopped calling itself aces high II but its been a few.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 08, 2014, 06:26:51 PM
Im not sure which year aces high stopped calling itself aces high II but its been a few.

OK, you win, if quibbling over a detail like that is important. 
Aces High II - Aces High...same game...different name.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: FLOOB on June 08, 2014, 06:35:33 PM
You learned what I taught you. That makes us both winners.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 08, 2014, 08:03:05 PM

I don't agree.  Strategy lies within the PLAYERS and the game's IMMENSE content ALLOWS for TRUE battle strategy.  

That's insanity.



Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 08, 2014, 09:03:00 PM
That's insanity.





How so?

The players control how the game is played. At this time the majority of players like to horde. years ago is was multi-pronged attacks, and years before that it was furballing. Times change and so does game play. HTC COULD change things to force a play style but they won't.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 09, 2014, 12:31:31 AM
Did you read my comments through your ignore list with psychic abilities?


How so?

The players control how the game is played. At this time the majority of players like to horde. years ago is was multi-pronged attacks, and years before that it was furballing. Times change and so does game play. HTC COULD change things to force a play style but they won't.


Because, your misconceptions about the game are still as wrong as they've always been.

There have NEVER been any "mulit-pronged attacks." That's another fantasy you imagined to support your theories.

Multiple large scale battles that were seen before were the result of having an average of 600+ players in a full arena and people choosing to start their own base takes for a variety of reasons NOT including some massive cooperative effort. It happened because people have always chosen to do their own thing in the game.

Even if a group of people decided to conduct such a coordinated attack, there are no huge strategic advantages to most of the bases on most of the maps. Yes there are slight advantages here and there, but they all have the same value in the final tally so any one you cant take can be left for an easier target.


Contrary to the proclamations made in your 10 year crusade there is still furballing. It may not be as easy to find when half the players have run off, but they are still there.

And yes, htc could do something to improve the game but most likely none of what you believe.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 09, 2014, 02:29:52 AM
At this time the majority of players like to horde. years ago is was multi-pronged attacks, and years before that it was furballing.


Years ago we had even more 'hording'. The so called "multi prong attacks" were just a result of having much more players in the arena, and almost never a result of a complex battle plan.

Shortly after I joined the Rook LCA combined operations strated rolling in 2006, which simply was a giant horde shutting down all bases in a given sector... because they had the manpower to do so.
With less players on each team, but increased target defenses (both active & passive) you simply more important to concentrate on one base at a time -> one blob moving around. When you have like triple numbers, you can move around in several blobs (which is alse not the result of a single, masterful battle plan).
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: LLv34_Dictonius on June 09, 2014, 02:55:47 AM
Whats with the funerals here? I do not see this game having heart attack any time soon.

Speaking from the perspective of finnish community, I'd say the game follows more organic development instead of some clear mathematically precise curve. Finland have short and warm summers and we want to get most out of it. Thus means little less time on puter. On our long dark winter time there is nothing better to do but get together online and take down some enemy fields. But this goes well with the level of enthusiasm as well. People get tired of the game, yes. They have kids. They have technical issues or monetary problems. But they all come back sooner or later.

I can't really understand the defeatist attitude that seem to have this hidden message included to the HTC - that if not some rules or this or that happens, the game will surely die. I just saw Kanttori for a breaf moment and he promised to take karelia map in to consideration after the new graphics update. This is surely something happening!
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Shifty on June 09, 2014, 06:55:49 AM
Whats with the funerals here? I do not see this game having heart attack any time soon.
I can't really understand the defeatist attitude that seem to have this hidden message included to the HTC - that if not some rules or this or that happens, the game will surely die. I just saw Kanttori for a breaf moment and he promised to take karelia map in to consideration after the new graphics update. This is surely something happening!

+1
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 09, 2014, 09:40:32 AM
Did you read my comments through your ignore list with psychic abilities?



Because, your misconceptions about the game are still as wrong as they've always been.

There have NEVER been any "mulit-pronged attacks." That's another fantasy you imagined to support your theories.

Multiple large scale battles that were seen before were the result of having an average of 600+ players in a full arena and people choosing to start their own base takes for a variety of reasons NOT including some massive cooperative effort. It happened because people have always chosen to do their own thing in the game.

Even if a group of people decided to conduct such a coordinated attack, there are no huge strategic advantages to most of the bases on most of the maps. Yes there are slight advantages here and there, but they all have the same value in the final tally so any one you cant take can be left for an easier target.


Contrary to the proclamations made in your 10 year crusade there is still furballing. It may not be as easy to find when half the players have run off, but they are still there.

And yes, htc could do something to improve the game but most likely none of what you believe.

I clear my ignore list ever month or two. I get everyone the chance to finally get some brains. Those tat post mostly pictures make back on first, soon to be followed by the idiots.

As for the multi pronged missions, I know we had then as I ran them. So did tzr and Mug of the Mafia. It may have been before your time, but just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The BOPs and the LCA were of the first groups to horde. And let's get this straight,  a horde is a group/mission with over 30 players that piles on a single base. True bases are no longer valued like back in the day when we had the zone bases, but it is still up to the players to make the game fun, or boring.

YES there are still furballs, but again nothing like we had in AH1.  They would last hours sometimes, some of the first larger maps made had a fighter town where many of these things happen.  Again it may have been before your time, but it did happen.

Some players try to bring more fun in by running themed missions but whats the point if your bringing 35 players? You can even assign target because there wont be enough to go around.

The players can make the changes in game play if the wanted to, but most just want to grab that next base.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gman on June 09, 2014, 01:36:27 PM
Quote
I can't really understand the defeatist attitude that seem to have this hidden message included to the HTC - that if not some rules or this or that happens, the game will surely die.

I'll agree that some people may have that attitude, but not all, not even all who disagree with this rule or that.  I've argued about bbs policy recently, yet I was always very positive about the future of the game itself while doing so.  HT agreed that when there is a long lull in the aciton, ie a long development cycle under way, it exacerbates the other issues, and sometimes when people don't like answers to questions they'll attack in other manners, like what you're talking about here, but IMO, this isn't as systemic as all that.  

Despite the things I don't like, there is an awful lot that I do, and most of all, I remember what a leap forward the first Aces High was over previous creations such as AW, WB, FA, and the like that I was used to.  I'm not just hopeful, I'm reasonably certain that HTC will bring a similar experience in the near future with the current work being done.  This is the single most important thing that keeps me for one around - hope, and I know many, many others, despite their own issues with whatever, feel the same way.  In fact, I would say most long term players, say over a couple years or so, are here at least in some part, due to hope for the future.  

The numbers are lower now than they have been in the past at some point - yes.  That will change shortly I would imagine, once that new beta hits the front page with news of a new "AH3" or whatever beta arena, I think there will be a big, big arrow up with regards to this.  If nothing else, we'll all have one less thing to complain about then, hah.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Mongoose on June 09, 2014, 08:21:04 PM
There have NEVER been any "mulit-pronged attacks."

  Yes there have been.  They are very rare, but I have been in on a few.  I remember one day in particular when a couple of squads were working together to coordinate their base captures.  So, you can't say it never happens.  Well, you can, and probably will.  But you will be dead wrong.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 09, 2014, 10:51:28 PM
Hoo-ray for those squads disciplined enough to organize a mulit-prong attack.  Yes it can and has been done but rarely with a "pickup mission".

"Pickup missions" are always a cluster f**k.  TOO FEW mission leaders bother to really think a mission through or even willing to throttle back to allow those in the mission to "form up" AS a group.  And even if they did throttle back, TOO MANY players feel they need to RACE LIKE HELL to be the first one there so they can grab the most attack perks they can off the choicest targets before the rest of the group gets there.

I still like flying "pickup missions" though.  I still enjoy flying with the players that understand what a GROUP effort means, who make the effort to fly in formation, who follow orders and willing to do their assigned jobs as a small part in a large effort.

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 09, 2014, 11:22:49 PM
It may have been before your time, but just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I've been playing since '97, I've seen it all, which explains how I know you're wrong.

And unless you call sending bombers or jabos to take out ords, troops, hangars or whatever a "multi-pronged attack" then you haven't run any such thing.

Fights scattered across the maps happen ALL the time. Does that mean they are "multi-pronged attacks?" No. Is there some coordinated efforts, yes but not the fantasy you eluded to.

but it is still up to the players to make the game fun, or boring.

Oh yes, Hasbro would be so much more successful if they sold board games with the single instruction, do what you want with the pieces and have fun.

The players can make the changes in game play if the wanted to

Really? Then go ahead and fix the game instead of talking about it.   :aok

 Yes there have been.  They are very rare, but I have been in on a few.

Oh I see it now...   "hey are you guys taking 43?"  

"yea"

"cool, we're taking a base too. Want to coordinate?"

"yea"

"cool, we'll attack this base and you attack that base..."


I'm sure Patton would have been in AWE.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: TequilaChaser on June 10, 2014, 08:31:36 AM
From my own personal recollection,  their were times back between late 2000 thru mid year of 2004 that certain squads did indeed work together in attacking multiple bases , targets and even running a few decoy flights... It was known about and it did happen on all sides/countrys...

Then came the megasquads and the enormous hordes shortly there after...

But in the early years below is a list of just some of the squads that worked together and hit multiple bases/targets, and sometimes. even took out fuel, ordinance, troops, supplies at all fronts of a country, to keep them back on their heels while the squads working together could push back or go after the other 3rd side/country

The 412th branco mustangs,  JG27th,  VMF101, jb42 jb11 jb73's JB squad, MAW, the AK's, the Damned... Ripsnort's awesome mission planning, gypsy baron's great tactical strategic abilities....

It was like having a continuous rolling FSO or scenario sort of....

It did not happen a lot, nor everyday, but it did happen and on all countries.... My apologies for not naming some certain squads... Snapshot's squad before he joined the blue knights, heck the blue knights, and a lot of others they played their part....

and it was good

<§>

TC
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 10, 2014, 09:11:45 AM
I've been playing since '97, I've seen it all, which explains how I know you're wrong.

And unless you call sending bombers or jabos to take out ords, troops, hangars or whatever a "multi-pronged attack" then you haven't run any such thing.

Fights scattered across the maps happen ALL the time. Does that mean they are "multi-pronged attacks?" No. Is there some coordinated efforts, yes but not the fantasy you eluded to.

Oh yes, Hasbro would be so much more successful if they sold board games with the single instruction, do what you want with the pieces and have fun.

Really? Then go ahead and fix the game instead of talking about it.   :aok

Oh I see it now...   "hey are you guys taking 43?"  

"yea"

"cool, we're taking a base too. Want to coordinate?"

"yea"

"cool, we'll attack this base and you attack that base..."


I'm sure Patton would have been in AWE.

Wow now i remember why you always end up on the ignore list. You think anything you type is gospel and everyone else hasn't a clue as to what they are saying. TC has verified what I said, but he doesn't know what he is talking about either I guess so we are both wrong.  :rolleyes:

You who haven't even played recently know everything.  Those of us that have been hear right along can see what is happening. The game isn't played the way it was years ago. All the tools are still there, but people don't bother to use them. It takes too long to get buffs to target at alt, it is too much trouble coordinating multiple wings for strike times. There are fasted and easier ways to play an so that is how it is now played. A boring repeating game play........ much like many other games players play today. Spawn, shoot, die, repeat over and over until bored and then move on to the next game.

This game will continue its slide until some thing puts the "substance" back into the game.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Yankee67 on June 10, 2014, 01:52:53 PM
As a newer player (about a year), I'd like to offer my two cents:

I enjoy this game, and I don't see what the whining is all about.  I find muzik's critique of ad-hoc mission development ("Patton would have been in AWE") to be quite humorous.  Muzik, let me know when you've talked HTC into requiring players to attend War College.  I'll quit the game immediately.

Side note: the entire subscription industry is in decline, moving toward microtransaction gaming (play for free, except when you want a perked ride).  On the whole, the curve for subscription gaming is going down, and the curve for microtrans gaming is on the rise.   
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: scott66 on June 10, 2014, 05:33:02 PM
AH is here to stay...period! If it ever goes public I'll buy every stock I can :airplane:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 10, 2014, 08:55:59 PM
You who haven't even played recently know everything.  Those of us that have been hear right along can see what is happening.

Yea, it's been a whopping 3 or 4 months since I've played, I'm so out of touch.


As a newer player (about a year), I'd like to offer my two cents:

I enjoy this game, and I don't see what the whining is all about. 

You're still a year away from nearing your learning curve's peak, it's not surprising you don't get it.

let me know when you've talked HTC into requiring players to attend War College.

I know right..... because who's dumb enough to think htc could reinvent it's 20 year old game model without a war college?    :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bozon on June 11, 2014, 02:09:49 AM
You're still a year away from nearing your learning curve's peak, it's not surprising you don't get it.
I've played this game over a span of 13 years. I do get it. Nothing will be fresh and new for that long and players (myself included) do take breaks from the game. I came back every time because there is nothing that compares to it out there. In all that time there was only one other game (Mount&Blade) that kept my interest for more than a month or two. All those AAA off-line game, MMO RPGs and FPS lost me after a short yet fun time - but I got tired of ALL of them. AH keeps me logging in, months and years. Do I have criticism? Sure! but it still the best gaming experience I ever had.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Ninthmessiah on June 11, 2014, 01:06:47 PM
Aces High is a necessary life function, like taking a shower or brushing your teeth daily.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 11, 2014, 03:44:28 PM

You're still a year away from nearing your learning curve's peak, it's not surprising you don't get it.


 :rofl

Its ok music, step away from the computer.  Put your knowledge and understanding on the shelf.  The way of the dweeb will return with time. first, we need to reset that perspective that has been chiseled through the years.  Remember, hoing another plane at 500 mph in a video game is relatively fun when compared to...well, anything else.   :old:

 :salute

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: caldera on June 11, 2014, 03:53:41 PM
I don't HO anymore.  I don't HO any less, either.  :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 11, 2014, 09:50:30 PM
I've played this game over a span of 13 years. I do get it. Nothing will be fresh and new for that long and players (myself included) do take breaks from the game. I came back every time because there is nothing that compares to it out there. In all that time there was only one other game (Mount&Blade) that kept my interest for more than a month or two. All those AAA off-line game, MMO RPGs and FPS lost me after a short yet fun time - but I got tired of ALL of them. AH keeps me logging in, months and years. Do I have criticism? Sure! but it still the best gaming experience I ever had.


Well good for you. And your response means what to me?

I never said anything about fresh or new.  I said it needs to be more. Yes that would entail some fresh and new, but changes aren't needed to make it fresh and new, they are needed to make it what it never was and always needed to be... more than just a boxing arena.



Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: VuduVee on June 11, 2014, 11:10:51 PM
since this thread is already going i'll post a thought here instead of starting a new thread.  ive always known AHII is the best combat flight sim model going.   to me AHII wins hands down.   but ive always thought it lacked a great game to go along with it.   i think the graphics arent great either.   my dream game is the AHII flight model with maybe WWII online all around land ( ground forces, soldiering, etc) sea and air aspects with War Thunders graphics.   for me, the flight model is the only thing that keeps me here. the game part of it is boring to me.   there really doesnt have to be a strategy when you can just horde up.   we have all the tools to use strategy, but you just dont have to.   so, what i was thinking was that to win a map HTC sets multiple goals for each team on every map.   maybe one goal is, team A has to capture A1.   imagine A1 is at the back of the map, but it has no spawns or maybe a few untakeable bases surounding it.   youll definitely have to use strategy to get it, it'd be like trying to capture Berlin or something like that.   basically each team has a set of goals and the other teams would have to use defensive strategies to combat team A.   this means that a fighter squad could do legit fighter sweeps that actualy mean something.   or a bomber squad could bomb hangars at adjacent bases and it mean something.   which also means that this bomber squad will need escorts, which means people will need to learn how to properly escort.  maybe a goal is taking a base with gvs. there will be guys bombing tanks, so youll need fighter cover.  as it is now,  the gvers wait for bombs and attack aircraft to do all the work, then they drive on base, when its taken and tower, respawn to the next camp circle jerk.   there are so many strategies that arent used in the game that we could use.   we have all the tools to do it, but we just dont have to, because we can blunt force every base.  this is just an idea, its maybe not even well thought out. the guys who want everything handed to them and as easy as possible will not like it.   for me though, id like real true strategy and strategic objectives.  the flight model will not keep me here all by itself, and the reason is that most people in game are not interested in ACM, theyre interested in the game or just any kill any way possible.  i believe strategic objectives to win maps has something for everyone.   id like to debate the strategic objective ideas to see if it holds water.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: mthrockmor on June 12, 2014, 12:13:58 AM
I first jumped into AH back in Sept of 2008. I remember doing the two week thing, I seem to recall doing it twice, though it is fuzzy. I was abit aghast at being shot down so many times because I knew I was more naturally gifted than almost everyone else here...reality check.

I remember one day upping a Spit 16, tooling around at 12k and hearing warnings over VOX about a raid. I started grabbing alt and then noticed specks. Soon the specs turning into icons. Some squad was doing a Navy Bird raid. Before I knew it I was bailing out of a busted Spit and while in my chute I remember counting well over 30+ Hellcats and Corsairs.

I remember just a couple years ago Swoops would do his Titanic Tuesday missions and regularly attract a couple dozen boxes of buffs and a dozen plus escorts. Attacking this mob at 20k+ would be a couple dozen, seems most German birds. And while many dozens of sticks squared off several hundred other sticks were doing other things.

I remember logging in and seeing numbers of 400+ regularly.

My first contact with AH was seeing this cartoon ads on the History or the Military Channel. I don't know HiTechs business model but it has clearly not kept up. The plan seems to be retool with eye candy. That will be awesome and I look forward to it. That alone will not save AH. They need to get in front of the airplane geek public.

Without it....I don't know how they can survive. I've seen businesses hit the tipping point before.  :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Scca on June 12, 2014, 08:30:35 AM
I also found out about AH from a history channel ad. 

Been around since 06 I think.  I just don't have the time to devote that I use to.  I "want" to play more, but life has dealt me a rough hand, and I have a wife and kids that need my attention.  Add racing to that in the summer, and I am luck to get time to play more than twice a week. 

I don't think I am alone in this.  Due to the economy, I know plenty of people over the last 5 years who now have more than one job and a family. Free time is getting harder and harder to come by.

Things to in cycles.  I suspect after the latest eye candy enhancements, HTC will get on the advertisements again, and we will have a fresh set of new folks to teach how to play the game. 

Just my thoughts.
   
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 12, 2014, 08:42:25 AM
I don't think I am alone in this.  Due to the economy, I know plenty of people over the last 5 years who now have more than one job and a family. Free time is getting harder and harder to come by.


The core of this is a natural cycle for about every player in every game. You get older, and either are tired by the game itself (quite nromal for any game), or the increasing real world requirements (career, family,...) start keeping you away more and more.
But that happend all the time, not just now. Even when AH was new many old (coming from AW and such) players were constantly leaving, with a stream of new players replacing them - and more.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Scca on June 12, 2014, 08:46:34 AM

The core of this is a natural cycle for about every player in every game. You get older, and either are tired by the game itself (quite nromal for any game), or the increasing real world requirements (career, family,...) start keeping you away more and more.
But that happend all the time, not just now. Even when AH was new many old (coming from AW and such) players were constantly leaving, with a stream of new players replacing them - and more.
a fair statement, but the economy has been in the crapper for a while now.

Add to that the instant gratification/power ups gamer, AH is a niche game. HTC needs to seek out that niche.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Slate on June 12, 2014, 09:31:01 AM
ive always known AHII is the best combat flight sim model going.   to me AHII wins hands down. But ive always thought it lacked a great game to go along with it. or me, the flight model is the only thing that keeps me here. the game part of it is boring to me.   there really doesnt have to be a strategy when you can just horde up.   we have all the tools to use strategy, but you just dont have to.   so, what i was thinking was that to win a map HTC sets multiple goals for each team on every map.   maybe one goal is, team A has to capture A1. there are so many strategies that arent used in the game that we could use. For me though, id like real true strategy and strategic objectives.  the flight model will not keep me here all by itself, and the reason is that most people in game are not interested in ACM, theyre interested in the game or just any kill any way possible.  i believe strategic objectives to win maps has something for everyone.   id like to debate the strategic objective ideas to see if it holds water.
  (edited for brevity)

     I am one who has not come from other flight sims though I love the flight part of the game. AH racing league is just pure flying and that's why it got my interest. I have always enjoyed strategy games from Monopoly to Risk and computer games with goals and objectives.
     I love the scenarios when I have the time to participate as each side has definite goals. I have never flown in FSO but hear good things about it. The MA does need an overhaul in the strategic sense and Vuduvee has good points. HTC has tried tweaking strats and such and they are not done. I am optimistic about the future of this game. Have you ever played through a console game only to be sad you went through all the levels and there is no more? What level are we on now?  :salute
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on June 12, 2014, 11:14:59 AM
There never was much strategy in AH at all. Smaller towns and higher radar level just meant higher rate of captures per hour - but not more "strategy". It was and still is "grab as many random bases as possible", no higher strategy required or implied.
Actually, with the old war victory rules it was even less strategy, as you even did not have to fight against both enemy countries to win.
Yep
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: R 105 on June 12, 2014, 01:20:23 PM
I was in MW for a change today. Reminded me of the EW of old - 0 players on Rooks (I was the first rook to enter), 3 on Bish and 6 on Knight.
Now guess where Bish and Knights were "fighting"...  :devil


But more seriously, the fewer players AH has overall, the smaller the chance you get any players to the minor arenas at all.

I still remember 100 players in MW at peak times  :old:
I remember when even EW had 30 guys or more on it. I was in EW not long ago and was the only bishop on with 5 knights attacking a base. I tried to engage two planes deacking the town and they ran away from me. They then went to another base to attack that was Rook so I couldn't attack them and even complained  I was messing up their fun on 200. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Randy1 on June 12, 2014, 01:21:52 PM
Could be too an undercurrent of a problem is at hand.  As people leave the density of better, hardcore fliers increases making it harder for the average Joe to make a go of the game.  Kind of like the decline of the economic middle-class.

Some on this forum have the attitude, "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

Just saying.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gman on June 12, 2014, 01:46:06 PM
We can all talk about this round and round, but for the most part, it's just conjecture.  Nobody but HTC has the numbers, the cold hard facts regarding player numbers since the company began.  HT being the whizz he is at coding, math, equations, graphs, and the like, I'm certain has mapped out quite accurately what has gone on with his business since it began.  I think this is why the price dropped from 30 a month to 15 once upon a time, as the math predicted more business overall with that sort of pricing.

When the game was first being built, the people that were around then saw rapid and constant change in the game, which gives the impression of a company that is dedicated and caring.  I would argue just because that change/improvement slows, it doesn't necessarily mean that the care and dedication is gone.  Hence the new AH that's coming.  The numbers will take care of themselves once it's out, it's almost a certainty.  

This is NOT an easy game to play.  Boo's post is pretty telling in fact, and it reminded me of my own experience.  When he first started, he got killed a lot, even though he obviously had a lot of sim/flying/etc time already in other games or whatever.  It was the same for me.  I learned quickly thanks to Fester/Citabria teaching me in early days, however the first week, although I thought I was a sim expert pilot, I was demolished just like Boo.  It is no different for many others out there.  This may not be the "study" or lots of buttons to push/stuff to do type sim like a DCS one, but in terms of the actual GAME, the fighting, the combat, there is NO other place out there like this IMO, where skill and ability plays such an important factor, and that skill taking so long to actually achieve.  Getting good at a first person shooter for example, is much, much easier than being a top pilot here. I would know, I played Quake2/3 with the absolute best clan in the world when I was a kid, when it was the biggest online thing going, and that was a snap compared to getting good enough to even win half of the fights I would get into here.

This being the case, this game attracts a certain type of client, and I do agree that it's unfortunate that more don't come to try it, but the reality is even advertising and such will never bring the huge numbers that a game like War Thunder or World of Tanks or whatever will bring, as the competition is higher here, and the time and effort to get to be a good player is far, far harder here than anywhere else.  Despite this, I still believe that a lot of people will be coming out of the woodwork when that new beta arena download hits the frontpage.  I would wager my fortune on it, and I think for quite a while after that, the numbers issue will attend to itself, and we can all go back to complaining about other issues then at least.  I do think that more numbers will fix a number of other issues, one being the hot topic 12 hour thing, as switching to find a fight won't be needed often when an arena is packed with 4 or 500 players - there will be fights to be had everywhere then IMO.  I live in hope.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Brooke on June 12, 2014, 06:25:55 PM
You get older, and either are tired by the game itself (quite nromal for any game), or the increasing real world requirements (career, family,...) start keeping you away more and more.
But that happend all the time, not just now. Even when AH was new many old (coming from AW and such) players

They are all weaklings who, like the elves in Tolkien's works, can't muster the will to continue and shuffle feebly off to oblivion.  ;)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Randy1 on June 12, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
I think we are going to need bigger drop tanks with the flying time needed to find a fight.  Tonight bombing GVs was about as good as it got.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 12, 2014, 09:43:41 PM
but ive always thought it lacked a great game to go along with it.   i think the graphics arent great either.  

...For me, the flight model is the only thing that keeps me here. the game part of it is boring to me.

BULLSEYE.

That missing "great game," has been missing since Air Warrior, I knew it then and patiently waited for the game to grow. Now I kick myself for not going to programming school.

I have no problems with the way graphics are now. I know they are far behind other games, but that has never been what made the game great. Everyone who played knows it and knows that holding graphics to a level that was more accessible to the average PC owner was one of the best decisions HTC has made.



The core of this problem is a natural cycle for about every player in every game.

Not true. This is not a Hasbro board game. AH is not confined by a nostalgic expectation to be... "the same as it was when I played Monopoly with my family as a kid."

Computer and console gamers do not settle for out dated games. They see how games have improved and evolved over the years and spend billions to see the newest thing in gaming.

You get older, and either are tired by the game itself (quite nromal for any game)

Your absolutely right, but in this industry, video games don't just get put on the closet shelf until the kids get old enough. They die. Just like Monopoly, most players will eventually quit and rarely, if ever come back. It just wont be interesting anymore.

That's a lot of lost revenue for a game that could, with some resolve, throw new things into the mix on occasion to reinvent the game.





Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 12, 2014, 09:46:19 PM
You are misinterpreting my words.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BaldEagl on June 12, 2014, 10:28:57 PM
There have NEVER been any "mulit-pronged attacks." That's another fantasy you imagined to support your theories.

There were in AW.  I know because I'd spend all week planning them for our squad night.  It was easy to do in AW as the maps never changed and only three bases in RRE were capturable.

We'd depart from multiple bases with staged departure times, follow irregular courses so as not to draw attention to or at least add confusion to our radar signatures and hit multiple targets.  A typical mission included dropping all the strats of the BZ or CZ with B-17's (pilot and gunner on board plus an escort fighter) and hitting key resources at bases around our primary objective while the main force (fighters and bombers with gunners) rendezvoused to hit and flatten some uncapturable base in BZ/CZ land.

The squad disbanded after AW.  I'm not saying anything similar happened in AH as it would be logistically more difficult not knowing what map's going to be up but to say it's never happened isn't true either as it clearly did in AW.

BTW, It actually does happen in AH.  You should try flying in scenarios (P.S. there's one going on now).
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Meatwad on June 12, 2014, 10:33:26 PM
Yes there was. On sunday nights we had RJO (Rook joint ops) back in AH1
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 12, 2014, 11:44:37 PM
You are misinterpreting my words.

Your silence suggests othewise. I don't believe you'd let that that happen and not tell me how I was wrong.

There were in AW.  I know because I'd spend all week planning them for our squad night.


AW had base caps for some time, which was a great idea that was poorly executed.

but to say it's never happened isn't true either as it clearly did in AW.


Multi-pronged attacks have one specific purpose, to divide enemy strength or divert it in some manner. That is impossible in AH because AH doesn't have base restrictions on player sorties and players have unlimited lives. If one country attacks three different enemy bases, it has ZERO strategic value.

If that enemy, has 100 guys logged on, it makes no difference if you attack one base or 20. They will divide and allocate themselves how they choose to, not how your "multi-pronged attack" wants them.

And if your country has 100 or 500 guys logged on, it makes no difference because just as you may be dividing the enemy up to defend muliple bases but you are spreading your own infinite troop strength also.

It's a zero sum strategy and all that really goes on is a bunch of scattered fighting.

There is only one way to conduct anything remotely similar to a multi-pronged attack in AH that actually has a strategic effect and that is to take out ords, troops, specific hangars of some type, etc. In that case, people often send attackers to multiple bases with the intent on limiting a countries ability to fight back.

My comment was specifically aimed at fugi's attempt at aggrandizing AH strategic play and I don't believe he was referring to hitting ords or troops. I believe he mentioned attacking "bases" and was referring to player v player attacks, not players attacking some ords and other resources.



BTW, It actually does happen in AH.  You should try flying in scenarios (P.S. there's one going on now).

But then we weren't talking about scenarios. I would love to fly scenarios if they weren't restrictive and provided me with the "at will" access that I get in the MA.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Tinkles on June 12, 2014, 11:57:13 PM
Your silence suggests othewise. I don't believe you'd let that that happen and not tell me how I was wrong.




Who would bother replying to an 'all knowing' being such as yourself?

I've been playing since '97, I've seen it all, which explains how I know you're wrong.





As for my post on topic, I acknowledge that players have left due to various reasons. However, I don't think it's time to yell out "abandon ship", considering HTC hasn't said anything on the matter, and putting 95% of their time and effort into updating the graphics isn't telling me that they are hurting too bad.

I think, if nothing else, that the graphics will retain the players that it has, and invite or attract other people to play again, or fly here for the first time.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 12, 2014, 11:58:53 PM
Your silence suggests othewise. I don't believe you'd let that that happen and not tell me how I was wrong.


Because you were so much wrong that I, being tired at almost 5am, had/have almost now idea where to start. I still can't understand how my very limited comment in reply to Scca can create a reply like

"Not true. This is not a Hasbro board game. AH is not confined by a nostalgic expectation to be.."

because nowhere I was implying or even thinking about such thing. But that should be obvious if you read my post in reply to Scca's. I merely pointed out that the phenomenom of players leaving AH for personal (carrer, age family) reasons is, and has been, a universal one. I made no other point, nor did I try to.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 13, 2014, 07:35:37 AM
Your silence suggests othewise. I don't believe you'd let that that happen and not tell me how I was wrong.


AW had base caps for some time, which was a great idea that was poorly executed.

Multi-pronged attacks have one specific purpose, to divide enemy strength or divert it in some manner. That is impossible in AH because AH doesn't have base restrictions on player sorties and players have unlimited lives. If one country attacks three different enemy bases, it has ZERO strategic value.

If that enemy, has 100 guys logged on, it makes no difference if you attack one base or 20. They will divide and allocate themselves how they choose to, not how your "multi-pronged attack" wants them.

And if your country has 100 or 500 guys logged on, it makes no difference because just as you may be dividing the enemy up to defend muliple bases but you are spreading your own infinite troop strength also.

It's a zero sum strategy and all that really goes on is a bunch of scattered fighting.

There is only one way to conduct anything remotely similar to a multi-pronged attack in AH that actually has a strategic effect and that is to take out ords, troops, specific hangars of some type, etc. In that case, people often send attackers to multiple bases with the intent on limiting a countries ability to fight back.

My comment was specifically aimed at fugi's attempt at aggrandizing AH strategic play and I don't believe he was referring to hitting ords or troops. I believe he mentioned attacking "bases" and was referring to player v player attacks, not players attacking some ords and other resources.

But then we weren't talking about scenarios. I would love to fly scenarios if they weren't restrictive and provided me with the "at will" access that I get in the MA.


You can't even agree with your self! First you say that multi-pronged attacks are impossible, then you say that if you attack 1 base or 20 that the enemy WILL split up as they want to defend. I hate to break it to you but that is what a multi-pronged attack is supposed to do.

Had you read my mission layout you would have seen that I had two small wings to deack two bases while a third group attacked a third to give the buffs and goon time to climb out and hit one of the bases that had been deacked. In the mission laid out 2 base would have been damaged. ...ords' ack, radar and so on with a third having been deacked ready for a vulch. 30 guys shut down a 3 base front, capture at least 1 base, control a couple sectors of airspace, and create 3 separate fights. Strategy.

Again you won't see stuff like this because it isn't how the game is played these days. If you put together a squad of like minded players you could do it and it may turn some of those "instant gratification" types to a more strategic game play, but I just don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Masherbrum on June 13, 2014, 10:07:59 AM
I plan on returning in the fall.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 13, 2014, 03:17:34 PM
Who would bother replying to an 'all knowing' being such as yourself?

You bring up a valid point there.


I don't think it's time to yell out "abandon ship"

Great, I never said anything about abandoning ship either. I don't think anyone in this thread suggested that either. So...  yea.



I still can't understand how my very limited comment

because nowhere I was implying or even thinking about such thing. But that should be obvious if you read my post in reply to Scca's. I merely pointed out that the phenomenom of players leaving AH for personal (carrer, age family) reasons is, and has been, a universal one. I made no other point, nor did I try to.

First of all, it was not a personal attack, sorry if I hurt your f f feelings.

You replied to the same question we all replied to, the OP's question. And you assumed that the downturn in player populations is the result of a "natural cycle."

Being a numbers guy you should certainly know that the "natural cycle" you are talking about has a statistically predictable percentage and that AH has gone WAAAAAAAAAY past that.

You imply that this "cycle" is unavoidable. Again, this is not Monopoly. Online games, especially small ones, have to continue to grow and innovate or they will go out of business. AH is not exactly etched into the wall of notorious pop-culture traditions of western society. If AH was World of Warcraft, they wouldn't have to worry about a "natural cycle" or, in all likelihood, a huge portion of it's players being bored or fed up with their game.

And finally you used the example of AW players coming and going, when from what I recall, AW grew bigger from the time I joined until they shut down. Maybe not like wildfire but it was growing....   If you're not growing, you're falling behind.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 13, 2014, 03:20:47 PM
You replied to the same question we all replied to, the OP's question. And you assumed that the downturn in player populations is the result of a "natural cycle."


No. Simply no, I did not.
As explained, I strictly commented on a particular part of Scca's post, which I quoted.
And at no point in this post I "assumed that the downturn in player populations is the result of a "natural cycle." I never said or even implied such a thing. I merely stated there always had been such a cycle, even in the "good old days".


You read way too much into my post beyond that.

And finally you used the example of AW players coming and going, when from what I recall, AW grew bigger from the time I joined until they shut down

I never said anything lkie that. You totally made that up.

I merely defined "old players" in the early days of Ah beinng ones which already had been playing AW for years, thus being "old players" while Ah still being new. I didn't comment on AW and it's numbers & growth at all.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 13, 2014, 03:55:05 PM

No. Simply no, I did not.
As explained, I strictly commented on a particular part of Scca's post, which I quoted.
And at no point in this post I "assumed that the downturn in player populations is the result of a "natural cycle." I never said or even implied such a thing. I merely stated there always had been such a cycle, even in the "good old days".


You read way too much into my post beyond that.

I never said anything lkie that. You totally made that up.

I merely defined "old players" in the early days of Ah beinng ones which already had been playing AW for years, thus being "old players" while Ah still being new. I didn't comment on AW and it's numbers & growth at all.


I don't think he reads anything. I think he just posts what he want whether its true or makes sense or not.

As for AW, It grew much as AH did with more people coming than those that left. Today unfortunately we are not getting people joining as fast as we are losing them.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 13, 2014, 04:11:33 PM

No. Simply no, I did not.
As explained, I strictly commented on a particular part of Scca's post,

Oh for christs sake. Scca was discussing the OP... You responded and specifically referred to AH players coming and going. Therefore you were also responding to/discussing the OP and I responded to you.

If you're going to argue, at least make it more intelligent than a rock.

And at no point in this post I "assumed that the downturn in player populations is the result of a "natural cycle." I never said or even implied such a thing. I merely stated there always had been such a cycle, even in the "good old days".

Just saying it is an implication whether by accident or not.

I merely defined "old players" in the early days of Ah beinng ones which already had been playing AW for years, thus being "old players" while Ah still being new. I didn't comment on AW and it's numbers & growth at all.



I didn't say you did comment on numbers, that was MY point. Learn to tell the difference.  As for your other waste of space, AW/AH, it doesnt matter, BOTH continued to grow and the growth didn't stop through at least 2004. My statement stands.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 13, 2014, 04:14:47 PM
Have fun discussing stuff withyourself.
That way it doesn't matter if you make stuff up or not.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 13, 2014, 04:16:10 PM
As for AW, It grew much as AH did with more people coming than those that left. Today unfortunately we are not getting people joining as fast as we are losing them.

Well, read on. You'll notice we finally agree on something.

I'll get back to your earlier misconceptions and gibberish later.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: ink on June 13, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
I don't think he reads anything. ...

.....

seems there are more then a few with that.......... condition. :uhoh


 :rofl
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gman on June 13, 2014, 05:31:49 PM
Cartoon him Fugitive!  Cartoon retaliation!  Attack!!!
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Patches1 on June 13, 2014, 06:37:02 PM
Quote
If you're going to argue, at least make it more intelligent than a rock.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.  :bhead
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BaldEagl on June 13, 2014, 06:38:47 PM
AW grew to the point that it did because if you were an AOL or Compuserve subscriber you got to play for free.  Obviously free worked for a lot of players.  I'm guessing it wouldn't work so well for HT.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: mthrockmor on June 13, 2014, 07:03:02 PM
I do a lot of marketing in the advocacy/political world. In another thread there was a request to post comments on a political news blog to counter World of Warplanes. I would be interested to know if AH received a small spike in 2-weekers?
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Slade on June 13, 2014, 07:03:33 PM
I think it shows a lot of class on the part of AH to allow such critically titled threads.  On the other hand sometimes I wonder if the marketing team at War Thunder (if that is what it is called) post this kinda stuff.

Gentlemen lets raise the bar and stop posting threads like this.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: muzik on June 14, 2014, 12:51:51 AM
Perhaps you should follow your own advice.  :bhead

I smell shade.  Now why don't you show me how its done?


You can't even agree with your self! First you say that multi-pronged attacks are impossible,

If they have NO strategic value, then all you are doing is "pretending" for the sake of re-enacting a battle.

Pretending or re-enacting for the sake of the experience is fine, but it has far less appeal than an actual imperative built into the game.


then you say that if you attack 1 base or 20 that the enemy WILL split up as they want to defend. I hate to break it to you but that is what a multi-pronged attack is supposed to do.

Your troops are split ALSO!!!!!!!!!!!!!   The point is to split theirs, not yours.

And when the enemy can move from battle to battle instantaneously and have unlimited lives, then 3 prongs or 20, they aren't really split are they?



Had you read my mission layout you would have seen that I had two small wings to deack two bases while a third group attacked a third to give the buffs and goon time to climb out and hit one of the bases that had been deacked.

In all fairness, you're right fugi. My experience reading your posts affected my decision and I didnt read that. I apologize....


...But it's still wrong.


If you put together a squad of like minded players you could do it and it may turn some of those "instant gratification" types to a more strategic game play, but I just don't see it happening.

Those things do happen. I see and hear guys fly off to kill ords or troops to support a base take. It happens frequently. Maybe it doesn't happen as often as it used to because there aren't guaranteed 500+ players on at prime time anymore.

Mood swings and boredom with the same old thing may cause people to gravitate to different preferred activities at times but the game is the same as it has always been yet you still think the answer is to change people instead of the game.

For gods sake, the biggest cliche on the planet is "people don't change." Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

This is a game. Games, movies, and stories become successful or fail based on how well they make consumers believe there is an imperative. If a movie character doesn't have an imperative to succeed, the movie fails because of a faulty story or movie making.

In your case, you say you don't get enough quality fights. That's because there is no imperative for players to give you one.

Until the game is designed in such a way to create those imperatives or a flood of new blood brings temporary relief, you wont see your ideal game again because the only real change you have experienced is that you grew out of the euphoria of your early days in the game.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: mthrockmor on June 14, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
Raise the bar and not post threads like this? I get your point. On the other hand...

If loyal customers of McDonalds, a football team, automobile, etc notice major concerns, is it not expected that the customers weigh in? Think of when Coke dumped Classic Coke and went to the new formula. Tons of people switched to Pepsi, the loyal crowd went nuts and Coke made the necessary changes. The more traditional way in which customers weigh in is by walking away, which is happening in droves! The market is talking, the customers are voting and the answer is...?

There is a major market flaw with AH right now. If that statement were not true numbers would be down so low, and for such a prolonged time? The normal answer is the economy, which has some truth but while we shrink plenty of other games are growing with new games entering the market. There is PLENTY of room for AH to grow and have 600+ sticks on a nightly basis. If something is not done, what will reverse the trends? And if the trends don't reverse then what?

Clearly AH is working hard on the new graphics, which will be great. Step 1. What is the followup? Without getting the word out about the new graphics...if a tree falls in the forrest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The loyal customers are talking. The less loyal are also talking, with their feet.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 25, 2014, 02:23:08 PM
Wednesday, June 25, high noon on a hot summer's day...
61 players in flight....
sigh...
was a whole 29 players in flight last night
sigh....
though, for the hour I got to play yesterday, late afternoon
there WERE 129 in flight...
sigh.....
(http://maxvision.webs.com/Images/zzz.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: mthrockmor on June 25, 2014, 02:32:38 PM
I worry AH is abandoning us....

Eye candy versus marketing. A great sales pitch will see Eskimos buying ice cream. On the other hand, the most brilliant products in the world sit collecting dust on a shelf without a marketing plan. I guess we ride the only accurate online simulator into the virtual dust. I'm glad I fly German Iron primarily. I'll get a sense of what its like to end up with nothing. Tipping point, when everyone realizes that no matter how they love the game almost no one else exists...and they stop logging in.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 25, 2014, 03:01:17 PM
From my own personal recollection,  their were times back between late 2000 thru mid year of 2004 that certain squads did indeed work together in attacking multiple bases , targets and even running a few decoy flights... It was known about and it did happen on all sides/countrys...

Then came the megasquads and the enormous hordes shortly there after...

But in the early years below is a list of just some of the squads that worked together and hit multiple bases/targets, and sometimes. even took out fuel, ordinance, troops, supplies at all fronts of a country, to keep them back on their heels while the squads working together could push back or go after the other 3rd side/country

The 412th branco mustangs,  JG27th,  VMF101, jb42 jb11 jb73's JB squad, MAW, the AK's, the Damned... Ripsnort's awesome mission planning, gypsy baron's great tactical strategic abilities....

It was like having a continuous rolling FSO or scenario sort of....

It did not happen a lot, nor everyday, but it did happen and on all countries.... My apologies for not naming some certain squads... Snapshot's squad before he joined the blue knights, heck the blue knights, and a lot of others they played their part....

and it was good

<§>

TC

There were certain things that I thought about and determined that if HTC delivered, I would buy a year's subscription.  Those things were delivered and I have played past that year. 

Now, there are things that I "wish" to be delivered, including a more rewarding mission planning environment and goal oriented team approach, but I will continue to enjoy the golden niblets as I find them (playing mostly during off hours - Euro time).

I suppose that some time in the future though, a reasonable motion towards multiple meaningful engagements per map, versus the current 1 or 2 large dar bar horde stomps / furballs, will occur.  I mean, 50 plus planes in a screenshot does look promising as a marketing tool for potential customers, until..... they actually use their trial and see it is mostly baby seal bashing.

The mission planner is a very useful tool to surround newer players with veteran players and dispersing valuable years of experience while "on the job".  Encouraging and rewarding use of this, coupled with the wonderful community and training tools that HTC has provided, should grow the population (especially with a new graphics update).

P.S.  One of the most notable omission from TC's list is the LTars.  If there was a ground war near their turf, they were in the thick of it and damn good at providing the challenge.  Word went out on channel, "LTars are there" and it was like bears to honey, especially honey guarded by thick swarm of bees.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Erkel on June 25, 2014, 03:06:13 PM
Imagine you're looking for a good WWII fighter plane game and have no idea what's out there.
Do a google search for WWII fighter plane games, any combination of words, WITHOUT using the words "Aces High".
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Randy1 on June 25, 2014, 03:07:46 PM
I think if HTC developed a focus on their niche in the market, they would press the simulation aspect of the game.

I can't say for sure but I bet the percentage of players in AH that are pilots or flown planes in some manor are much higher than other online games.  That is a big deal in market information.

I look forward to the new graphics but HTC should have a game plan to start adding new targets like planes at airfields to strafe, convoys, and trains to enhance the simulation side of the game and be proud of their future prowess in air and ground combat simulation.

A little ad Like Graphics are nice but more real pilots choose AH.

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Latrobe on June 25, 2014, 03:24:19 PM
Imagine you're looking for a good WWII fighter plane game and have no idea what's out there.
Do a google search for WWII fighter plane games, any combination of words, WITHOUT using the words "Aces High".

That was quite interesting to search. Aces high 2 never came up no matter what I typed in, even when I tried to be very specific or try to nudge the search towards Aces High 2. Found a few BBS's where people asked about WW2 fighter sim games and everyone in them were recommending Il2 and War Thunder. Heck! Even World of Warplanes and Blazing Angels were talked about! Aces High just doesn't come up in WW2 fighter sims talk. That, along with the major lack of advertising of this game, is really taking it's toll on this game. The only way people find out about AH2 is if someone who plays it tells them about it. I really hope that once HTC gets the new terrain engine out and start working on updating the last of the AH1 modeled planes that they do some HUGE advertising. One thing that AH2 has that no other game can match is it's massive multiplayer enviorment! Literally HUNDREDS of players on ONE server! That's something that really gets people interested in a game and AH2 is the only WW2 sim that I have heard of that has this. Every other WW2 flight game I've tried has had a 16 or 32 player cap and that gets boring after a while with the low numbers. Even better is AH2 also has land and sea combat as well. They're by now means perfect at all but it adds so much more to the game than just air combat.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Wiley on June 25, 2014, 03:30:09 PM
Imagine you're looking for a good WWII fighter plane game and have no idea what's out there.
Do a google search for WWII fighter plane games, any combination of words, WITHOUT using the words "Aces High".

First result for 'wwii fighter games' yields this (http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AWorld_War_II_flight_simulation_video_games&ei=AS-rU46XBYSHogTaqIKQDw&usg=AFQjCNHUDcq1bg7UOqr_J493mTzJ4WyzFg&sig2=tL6HhNKGrlymzMq2nFg8Sg&bvm=bv.69837884,d.cGU&cad=rja), which has AH listed, but I get what you're saying.  WBs was easier to find with other searches, and there's something fundamentally wrong with that statement.

The problem is, we're a specific niche within a niche market.  The vast majority of us don't want the full on DCS style simulation, but we also don't want pants-on-head arcade dweebery either.  We exist in this weird twilight of wanting (ok, projecting some of my personal desires, but I believe many if not most are in the same vicinity) a high detail flight model and high detail damage model without the finicky bits like engine management and manual trim only.  Sure, some want this game to be more arcadey, some want it to be more simulation, but most who like it the way it is just want what's there improved, if anything.

The only other game that is remotely similar to this one I'm aware of is WB.  Everything else is either too far on one side or the other of the sweet spot that gets me paying my $15 a month.

Free vs $15 a month is also a tough thing to sell over.  It's just the way it is, this game will never be broadly popular because it has a learning curve, a cost, and requires a fair bit of commitment to be anything other than a target drone for most.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Babalonian on June 25, 2014, 03:51:55 PM
Then again it could just be summer.  Anyone here for more than a year knows AH is unique for having a slight decline of players in the heart of summer.

Stay calm, grab a steak, light the BBQ, and see you in September.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Brooke on June 25, 2014, 03:56:57 PM
Stay calm, grab a steak, light the BBQ, and see you in September.

Come light some BBQ's with us in "the Pacfic War" scenario right now!

(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201406_PacificWar/pics/frame3/006d-hit-SNAG-0005.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Randy1 on June 25, 2014, 04:05:13 PM


Free vs $15 a month is also a tough thing to sell over.  It's just the way it is, this game will never be broadly popular because it has a learning curve, a cost, and requires a fair bit of commitment to be anything other than a target drone for most.

Wiley.

A good marketing person would take what you said Wiley and turn it into a positive spin. 

AH can't compete with war thunder on graphics and shouldn't really bet the farm on the new graphics.  Its a simulation game where war thunder is just a game that looks like a simulation.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 04:06:15 PM
That was quite interesting to search. Aces high 2 never came up no matter what I typed in, even when I tried to be very specific or try to nudge the search towards Aces High 2.

And that's surprising? This website has non-existent SEO, as well as very, very poor UI/UX. Most don't realize that you actually need a content and SEO/SEM strategy to get to rank.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Wiley on June 25, 2014, 04:12:26 PM
A good marketing person would take what you said Wiley and turn it into a positive spin. 

People want easy, no thought required gaming.  They want fairness.  These are things that are counter to how this game is designed, period.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 04:19:26 PM

Free vs $15 a month is also a tough thing to sell over.  It's just the way it is, this game will never be broadly popular because it has a learning curve, a cost, and requires a fair bit of commitment to be anything other than a target drone for most.


The learning curve isn't an issue. There are players that are attracted to competitive games, as there are ones who avoid them. Neither is the cost, except to young kids and those who might not have $15 a month, but those people typically don't have gaming computers anyway.

The biggest reasons that this game is failing, from the perspective of someone who is both a programmer/developer, as well as a digital interactive team manager, are:

1. Accessibility - the game is incredibly difficult to set up for an average user. Want hi-res graphics? Download that separately. Want better sounds? Find them yourself and then install them - don't mess up or you'll have to reinstall the whole game. Even the download button is relatively low-key. As a rule of thumb, if you can't point an organically-referred user to the direct download link within 3 seconds, you'll lose them.

2. Lack of high-end demoable gameplay - There's nothing on the site that actually shows users what gameplay looks like. Sure, there's fan-films, and there's screenshots, but nothing that shows the user what the game looks and feels like. This does two things - causes many users to be disinterested, and it causes the users who do follow-through to have false or non-existent expectations.

3. Graphics - Simply put, they suck. War Thunder uses a graphics engine from 2008, so stating that graphics are tied to ultra-new tech doesn't cut it. Enough said.

4. Accessibility in-game - Finally, if a user manages to deal with all of the above, then what? Now they have to set up complex views, buy software/hardware, etc. Simply put, while many of you hardcore and long-time users don't think much of it, you are a minority. A dying minority. The majority of users need to be able to control the game with minimal additional accessories. Most players who come to this game, at most, own only a joystick (if that). Dependencies on hardware and complex setups only deter new users.


Each of the above points acts as a filter, removing more and more players through each successive hurdle, until there are very, very few left. Those that make it then face a steeper learning curve, a hard-to-use UI, etc.

Streamlining the website for accessibility (easy to do), putting together some amazing footage/gameplay - not the usual crap, but something visually amazing that sucks the player in (example: Str8 Rippin Halo 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5Dnk4Rd3k&feature=kp))  (also relatively easy), updating the graphics (already underway), and fixing the ingame UI and removing the in-cockpit views only (moderately difficult) would go a LONG way for the game's longevity.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: zack1234 on June 25, 2014, 05:03:58 PM
The game is not hard to set up :old:

I can set it up :old:

Hardware is the major issues for new players ie joysticks
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bustr on June 25, 2014, 05:17:34 PM
And then this would be "Skyyr High" and no longer "Aces High".

Seems like you should take this up with Hitech in person Skyyr if your credentials are as impressive as your focus is to change AH into your image. Removing in cockpit only views. Now that would be a whole can of unintended consequences along with making it easier for some players to not have to learn SA or ACM and just focus on grief with their running. It got the IL2 changed from a bomber to an attacker. But, then you are free to move over to WT since much of what you are taking umbrage with AH is the heart of WT.

So why not simply open a wish stating you want Hitech to copy WT and stuff his physics engine into it?
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 05:32:26 PM
And then this would be "Skyyr High" and no longer "Aces High".

Seems like you should take this up with Hitech in person Skyyr if your credentials are as impressive as your focus is to change AH into your image. Removing in cockpit only views. Now that would be a whole can of unintended consequences along with making it easier for some players to not have to learn SA or ACM and just focus on grief with their running. It got the IL2 changed from a bomber to an attacker. But, then you are free to move over to WT since much of what you are taking umbrage with AH is the heart of WT.

So why not simply open a wish stating you want Hitech to copy WT and stuff his physics engine into it?

You seem to throw a lot of personal comments in there.

I never claimed my credentials were "impressive," I'm simply stating what is known to be industry standard. HiTech could easily run an A/B test and see if what I stated is correct (which it would be). None of it is ground-breaking or super-secret - it's simply how the web is analyzed today. Any legitimate web or interactive consultant would probably suggest the same as I have.

Nothing that I stated is game-changing, with the exception of cockpit-only views. For you to state that any of those changes, including other in-game views, would change this into WT, or "Skyyr's High," it makes you look not only unnecessarily aggressive, but uneducated as well.

War Thunder is what it is because of it's F2P model, it's flight model, it's mouse-control model, and it's leveling system. NONE of my changes suggest that, nor are they implied in any way, shape or form. So please, drop the accusations unless you can underline where I suggested anything of the sort.

I have no interest in War Thunder, though their graphics are second to none. My comment concerning War Thunder was to highlight that a lot of technophobes here think that great graphics require million-dollar (lol) gaming servers and setups - that is simply not the case. WT's graphic engine is the better part of a decade old.

Graphics in AH suck because, well, they suck. Defend them all you want, they are still a huge drawback to your average gamer, especially those who aren't experienced enough to know the difference in flight models. Your average new pilot, who doesn't have prior sim experience, is more apt to go to the F2P game because it has better graphics. I'm interested in AH for the flight model, so graphics are actually a tertiary concern for me.

The other-than-cockpit views have nothing to do with griefing, running, or anything else. I run TrackIR - I don't even think about views any more. However, the current view system is archaic in function. In a real plane, it's easy to look around - just reference TrackIR. In AH, it's abnormally difficult without it.

The problem is that your average player has neither the time, the money, or the patience to purchase and set up TrackIR or similar software. This leaves the user with having to map multiple keys to 45* views, which even then has relative blindspots. This leaves new players, and players without time or money, frustrated and more apt to quit.

And in the end, what for? In-cockpit views are primarily for immersion purposes - they offer little practical advantage outside of limiting some shot opportunities.

I'm not advocating anything other than what is known to be conducive to user-experience.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bustr on June 25, 2014, 05:41:52 PM
Skyyr you blew a big horn about yourself before you told Hitech his undies are dirty in his house on the PA system.

You threw the rock at Hitech's windows, seems you should have the professional nads to take this up with him in person.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Fish42 on June 25, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
And then this would be "Skyyr High" and no longer "Aces High".

Seems like you should take this up with Hitech in person Skyyr if your credentials are as impressive as your focus is to change AH into your image. Removing in cockpit only views. Now that would be a whole can of unintended consequences along with making it easier for some players to not have to learn SA or ACM and just focus on grief with their running. It got the IL2 changed from a bomber to an attacker. But, then you are free to move over to WT since much of what you are taking umbrage with AH is the heart of WT.

So why not simply open a wish stating you want Hitech to copy WT and stuff his physics engine into it?

I agree with most of what Skyyr said. There are many steps that can be taken without damaging the game play that would attract new players and help keep them.

Removing Cockpit views I do not agree with. When you fly with the more "simulator" mode in WT you are locked into your cockpit just like in AH. True its not the most popular mode, but it still has strong numbers.

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 05:59:47 PM
Skyyr you blew a big horn about yourself before you told Hitech his undies are dirty in his house on the PA system.

You threw the rock at Hitech's windows, seems you should have the professional nads to take this up with him in person.

I didn't blow a "big horn," I simply stated my experience. That's like saying "As a professional pilot, here's my opinion on flight models." I distinguished that I was speaking from a professional stance on the matter - nothing more. Is there anything horn-blowing about that? None whatsoever.

I also never insulted Hitech or implied it. My observation (and opinion) is simply that the game's support mechanisms have been neglected from a UI/UX and SEO perspective. The fact that the game isn't on the first page for "WWII Combat Sim" supports my stance.

I could go to Hitech, but why? Unless there is some outstanding request for me to do so from him or a large majority of the playerbase, I'd simply be soliciting him. Unless he expresses open interest and I know he wants to pursue the above, I don't really care to go out of the way and create a competitive analysis, do a UI/UX evaluation, SEO evaluation, etc. This game is a hobby, not a job at this point.

Regardless, you completely dodged the question and failed to answer accountable to your claim that I want to turn the game into War Thunder. I clearly outlined that wasn't the case, yet you have yet to even respond. The burden of proof lies with you to prove the accusation.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bustr on June 25, 2014, 06:03:24 PM
Skyyr I understand walls of text and am guilty of many. On the other hand, yours are looking like someone from the IRS being grilled by congress.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 06:04:13 PM
Skyyr I understand walls of text and am guilty of many. On the other hand, yours are looking like someone from the IRS being grilled by congress.

So you've dodged the question now for the third time whilst throwing in a red herring attempt. Got it.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bustr on June 25, 2014, 06:07:39 PM
No skyyr, I'm not playing your game. Teflon becomes you in the light of day.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 25, 2014, 06:08:20 PM
No skyyr, I'm not playing your game. Teflon becomes you in the light of day.

You just can't type a single reply without trying for personal attacks, can you? Pity.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Copprhed on June 25, 2014, 06:08:40 PM
Having read your "recommendations", as one of a "dying minority", who has a modicum of intelligence and technical ability, I say keep the game the way it is. We don't need more of a group of people who know nothing about computers, planes or WW2 coming in expecting an arcade game. That the game requires some effort to learn the intricacies of is a good thing. Quit trying to make the game into pablum for the masses, we don't want or NEED that.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 25, 2014, 06:17:30 PM
Quit trying to make the game into pablum for the masses, we don't want or NEED that.


I think most fellows posting their proposals in here are not hoping to bring in the "masses" but simply are hoping to essentially 'save' it.

If those proposals would really work is a totally different stroy, though ;)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 25, 2014, 06:27:51 PM
If a game is fun people will play it. If it's not fun they won't. In most cases fun means fair. Kinda simple.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kruel on June 25, 2014, 06:30:42 PM
And then this would be "Skyyr High" and no longer "Aces High".

Seems like you should take this up with Hitech in person Skyyr if your credentials are as impressive as your focus is to change AH into your image. Removing in cockpit only views. Now that would be a whole can of unintended consequences along with making it easier for some players to not have to learn SA or ACM and just focus on grief with their running. It got the IL2 changed from a bomber to an attacker. But, then you are free to move over to WT since much of what you are taking umbrage with AH is the heart of WT.

So why not simply open a wish stating you want Hitech to copy WT and stuff his physics engine into it?

This is exactly what's wrong with the community. Do people not remember how long it took them to set up the game to get it "just right"? .(dot) commands, separate video settings in 2 different areas (in-game / out of game). All these hidden and hard to understand options like damping and deadzone and how it actually affects your control. Combat Trim..how does it work , what does it do , what difference does it make? I have been playing for 6 months and I still don't think there is a consensus among people on how exactly its used. These are easy to fix..implement Tool Tips.

Lets not talk about the graphics, I believe gameplay trumps graphics. but the UI design seems like its from the late 90's.

This game is part of a GENRE of games..it competes with OTHER games, if it wants to compete it must offer what the OTHER games offer and MORE.

A quick example I have used in the Past:

Everquest was the biggest MMO at the time, a little company named Blizzard was making a game called World of Warcraft, you know what they did? They asked the most reputable players from Everquest what they liked about EQ and what they didn't like. They implemented the things they liked and fixed the things they didnt like. WoW is the most successful MMORPG of all time with nearly 16 million players in its prime. Whats funny about it its that its CONSTANTLY changing, it keeps the game fresh. Why couldn't HTC do the same with more commercially succesful games like WT/WOP/IL2COD, AH offers one thing that none of them offer, a massive arena where everyone is in at the same time.

Now, I am not stating that HTC has the resources Blizzard did, but the changes they COULD make are relatively INEXPENSIVE and EASY to implement. Instead of fixing the graphics they should have focused on fixing the GAMEPLAY/Quality of Life and THEN polished up the game. See Minecraft as an example (retro graphics, rabid fan base).

You are predicting people will forget ACM and Run and grief yet you haven't even TRIED to see it. Have you seen some WT videos out there that discuss the very ACM topics that you are stating will disappear?

People here suffer from such kainotophobia, that in the end it is going to be 3 people in the MA and 2 of them will be in a GV.


There are such relatively easy things to implement that would vastly improve the game:

1. Smaller Arenas - Nothing sucks more than taking off and climbing for 10 minutes only to have a 30 second fight, or worse, get shot down by ack 15 miles away, get a pilot wound. If you are spending an unproportional amount time (as a new player) taking off and climbing out than you are spending time actually fighting, something is wrong. Smaller arenas would fix this somewhat as fights would be more intense and easier to find.

2. Padlock views - most other games offer an inate Padlock view, this way people don't have to spend 150$ on TrackIR and new players wont feel like they are at a competitive disadvantage if they don't get it. No need to fiddle with hatswitch views and seat positioning.

3. Updated UI/Tool Tips - Enough said the intro music feels dated/the UI looks dated and there are so many options and ways to configure the game that Tool Tips would at least help navigate this maze.


People need to be able to at least TRY these things and see how they work out. I don't know if we are beating a dead horse here. It seems HTC is more of a Hobby than it is a company that is trying to compete in the WWII online sim space.  Maybe they are wishing the glory days are coming back when there were 10,000 subs. What's worse is that everyone is here arguing about it and showing more passion for the game and we usually get nothing but silence or petty forum moderation from the devs. That's not community management, that's baby sitting.

Couldn't we have some of these issues addressed? Maybe bi-weekly update or replies to the forum posts with the most hits...SOMETHING.

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kruel on June 25, 2014, 06:32:40 PM
Having read your "recommendations", as one of a "dying minority", who has a modicum of intelligence and technical ability, I say keep the game the way it is. We don't need more of a group of people who know nothing about computers, planes or WW2 coming in expecting an arcade game. That the game requires some effort to learn the intricacies of is a good thing. Quit trying to make the game into pablum for the masses, we don't want or NEED that.

YOU don't want or need that. What you are saying is that you would rather run the game into the ground until there is nothing left rather than change and possibly flourish.

I LIKE this game the primary reason for those types of suggestions is that I WANT the game to be around. But more importantly I want more PEOPLE to play it. Why do you suspect that computer illiterate or people who don't know WWII sims or planes don't belong here. When I played Air Warrior I knew NOTHING of these things..yet here I am.

Kainotophobia at its finest..its my new favorite word..and it should be written all over these forums for people who have any recommendations that they should STEER CLEAR. The game is FINE! Although our numbers have declined heavily and new players a joining in 1 and 2s.

Stop speaking for everyone dude.

A choice remains, change and more players (if its not already too late). Or no Change and ultimate death of the game (unless its privately financed by HTC and its a hobby, then until HTCs death (I hope he's young!) )  But then again if a game comes out that Offers massive arenas and are willing to listen and respond to their player base, there will be nothing here to see anyways).
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 25, 2014, 07:02:12 PM
The learning curve isn't an issue. There are players that are attracted to competitive games, as there are ones who avoid them. Neither is the cost, except to young kids and those who might not have $15 a month, but those people typically don't have gaming computers anyway.

The biggest reasons that this game is failing, from the perspective of someone who is both a programmer/developer, as well as a digital interactive team manager, are:

1. Accessibility - the game is incredibly difficult to set up for an average user. Want hi-res graphics? Download that separately. Want better sounds? Find them yourself and then install them - don't mess up or you'll have to reinstall the whole game. Even the download button is relatively low-key. As a rule of thumb, if you can't point an organically-referred user to the direct download link within 3 seconds, you'll lose them.

I don't think the game is all that tough to set up for a normal person. Today more and more players seem to like things hand fed to them as they believe it is the right  :rolleyes: I do think the hi res graphics should automatically be part of the game in the main download and if you want them all you do is check a box and they are on. HTC has always been very careful of file size. They started in the dial-up day and worked hard to keep the code clean and so the file sizes as small as possible. Keeping things as tight as they have also goes to working with as many people as possible. Many of us have hi-speed internet and 600 meg is nothing to download, but there are still people out there who use dial-up as it is the only service available. So they have to weight that..... how many people need the smaller file sizes against how many more can they attract having all the goodies part of the main download.

Quote
2. Lack of high-end demoable gameplay - There's nothing on the site that actually shows users what gameplay looks like. Sure, there's fan-films, and there's screenshots, but nothing that shows the user what the game looks and feels like. This does two things - causes many users to be disinterested, and it causes the users who do follow-through to have false or non-existent expectations.

Agreed, the sites... both the main and the trainers site are old. Built but "old school" guys, aimed at old school guys. When we were working on ideas for the trainers site I always advocated brite, bold, in your face graphics with the use of youtube/vimeo. You need to grab their attention and hold it long enough to get them to find the Download button.

Quote
3. Graphics - Simply put, they suck. War Thunder uses a graphics engine from 2008, so stating that graphics are tied to ultra-new tech doesn't cut it. Enough said.

Not enough said. While the graphics could use an update.....and they are working on it..... comparing them to WarThunder is foolish. How big are the arenas in WT? can the hold 1000 players at once? AH are very big, and can hold 1000 players.....tho they never have at one time (arena, not server). That is where you run into the computing power. If WT tried to run maps as large as AH with 600 people on they would crash before it fully loaded.

Quote
4. Accessibility in-game - Finally, if a user manages to deal with all of the above, then what? Now they have to set up complex views, buy software/hardware, etc. Simply put, while many of you hardcore and long-time users don't think much of it, you are a minority. A dying minority. The majority of users need to be able to control the game with minimal additional accessories. Most players who come to this game, at most, own only a joystick (if that). Dependencies on hardware and complex setups only deter new users.]/quote]

Again this goes back to "hand feeding" these people. What ever happened to working for something you want??? oh.... right, never mind  :rolleyes:


Quote
Each of the above points acts as a filter, removing more and more players through each successive hurdle, until there are very, very few left. Those that make it then face a steeper learning curve, a hard-to-use UI, etc.

Streamlining the website for accessibility (easy to do), putting together some amazing footage/gameplay - not the usual crap, but something visually amazing that sucks the player in (example: Str8 Rippin Halo 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5Dnk4Rd3k&feature=kp))  (also relatively easy), updating the graphics (already underway), and fixing the ingame UI and removing the in-cockpit views only (moderately difficult) would go a LONG way for the game's longevity.

Sure some things need to be done.... we won't even bother discussing the "removing the in-cockpit views only" thats just stupid. While I do have TrackIR I rarely use it as it hurts my already horrible aim. I have used a Hat switch for over a dozen years and I have very rarely lost sight of a plane, or even 4-5. It just takes a bit of practice.....oh wait, were getting into that "working for it" thing again.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: LCADolby on June 25, 2014, 07:11:18 PM
If a game is fun people will play it. If it's not fun they won't. In most cases fun means fair. Kinda simple.

People need to know about it.

Wanted: Quality Advertising.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: TequilaChaser on June 25, 2014, 07:23:07 PM
Skyyr,

I don't know what you mean about the UI being difficult to use or why you would say the graphics aren't appealing... I would search and read up on the ability AH has of rendering every object/vehicle, plane and at the distances from a player's position the game is actually calculating all other surrounding opponents up to something like 17 miles ( drawing from memory, I may be a little off here )
AH has alot more engine under the hood, this being I think IIRC the 3rd graphics engine and 2nd or 3rdcomputing? <--- might be wrong here...am on my phone so haven't bothered to go and refresh my memory

BTW, AH II was changed back to just "AcesHigh" like it was originally... about 3 or so years ago

Chilli, yep I knew I left a good number off... The 367th, Freebirds, WOT, hmm that squad the seahawks? they had ch at end of some of their gameids... The 327th and several more, heck the muskies...

I'm with Fish42's post regarding not removing in cockpit views and AH has padlock view ability, I believe it is F8 or F9

 :cheers:

TC
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gman on June 25, 2014, 07:31:01 PM
That's very true regarding WT, graphics, and comparing them to AH.  It's apples and oranges due to the arena/player number size.  HT made a very accurate post I'll go find regarding the ins and outs of terrain graphics, model graphics, and how it all affects performance based on the size of the environment.  The horsepower needed to run WT graphics in an AH arena would price almost everyone out of the game, and those who could play it would be complaining up a storm over performance, or lack thereof.

So far as file size, I don't think it's an issue any longer, ask HTC how many clients are on dial up.  Most games now treat this as a completely irrelevant issue, Star Citizen with the millions of players just in alpha released with a 10 gig download, Arma3, Rome 2, every MMO out there - all of them have massive files in relation to AH, and it sure hasn't affected their numbers.  I agree that in the beginning many HTC customers were on dialup, I remember having an @home email addy in 1999 when I first started playing, and everyone would instantly say "you have a cable modem", like it was a pot of gold or something.  Now it's the reverse, if you're on dialup, and in almost every case it's due to the unavailability of anything else due to location (farm, acreages, etc).   But now, say even in the last 5 years, high speed is available even in area where it was impossible before. I realize there are a few clients still using dial up, and I'll bet it's single digits % wise, likely under 5% if I was to wager $.   My summer place is at a lake in the middle of knowhere Canada, 87 miles from the nearest city over 500 people, and I have wireless high speed 7mbit there even now, and get 100 ping to HTC.  


Regarding fairness and game action speed - it's impossible to regulate fairness in this type of game IMO, the aircraft are inherently different in performance - unfair.  Second accounts impossible to stop - unfair (to those that care, which isn't me).  Large groups end up fighting small groups - unfair.  It isn't an easy environment to try and maintain some sort of "fair" combat, like say a 4 v 4 in Quake, where everyone has the same weapons, and only skill, and ping time make any difference in the outcome.

Game speed - well, groups of vocal people have tried unsuccessfully to lobby for change in this area with a large number of issues, from the base locations, map sizes, 12 hour rule, and on and on.  It typically starts with a "not going to happen" response, then progresses to angry posts, which then ends up with punishments being handed out.  Outside of posting something in the wishlist forum, players don't seem to be generally encouraged to pipe up with their ideas, and lobby for them to be integrated, even on a trial basis.  Game changes seem to be very methodically considered, and metered out in a "long view" sort of way, IMO at least.  It is what it is, and like everything else, likely won't be changing anytime soon unless HTC decides so.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BuckShot on June 25, 2014, 07:47:17 PM
No padlock views, too gamey: I'll never use track ir. I don't want to move my head around to play. I've never had a problem with the hat for views or blind spots. I don't use pedals for similar reasons; I sit sideways, kneel if my back hurts, etc.

No FA/ turd thunder style gun cam view: it would remove some of the realism that makes AH what it is. It would allow straight down views. Want to look straight down? Point the nose that way or bank and look sideways.

I was in FA for about three years before it shut down. Had I seen AH when I discovered FA, I would have never downloaded that crap. (advertising! I agree)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: craz07 on June 25, 2014, 07:50:31 PM
All about the non-arcadiness... Reduce field of views, adjust sounds/sound levels.. add new terrain and refined cockpit art and you have a worthwhile online game all day..
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: TequilaChaser on June 25, 2014, 07:59:36 PM
I wouldn't call FA crap, it was different... I played with it up til 1.0, and revisited it several times over as each new version came out ie: 2.0, 3.0 etc... They had an excellent community just like AW and WB and most of us from all 3 have ended up here..

TC
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: craz07 on June 25, 2014, 08:02:59 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BuckShot on June 25, 2014, 08:08:30 PM
I wouldn't call FA crap, it was different... I played with it up til 1.0, and revisited it several times over as each new version came out ie: 2.0, 3.0 etc... They had an excellent community just like AW and WB and most of us from all 3 have ended up here..

TC

Maybe I was a bit harsh on FA, I did have lots of fun there.

Having been fully immersed in AH for a while now, I would say that FA was more comparable to WT rather than AH.

It is my hindsight of comparing AH to FA that has me calling FA and WT crap. I lost my squad to turd thunder. They compare it to FA.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BuckShot on June 25, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
I applaud Hitech for not doing similiar.. Can i get a hell yea??  orrr.. nott..

Hell yea!!
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BnZs on June 25, 2014, 09:05:21 PM
First, if Aces High isn't easy to find via a web search, that is a terrible problem. I don't know the technical details of that sort of thing but obviously it needs to be fixed.

Second, I see advertisements for War Thunder and Word of Warplanes when I open magazines like "Air Classic" or whenever I look at aviation-related videos on Youtube. I do not see advertisements for Aces High. Again, this is a problem, for obvious reasons.

Third, regarding views, here is a less radical suggestion: At least have the snap views for each plane adjusted to somewhat decent by default with the download. Everyone adjusts their views a little differently, but the default positioning is just bad. I think I flew for a week when I started before I knew you could adjust the rear view to see something besides headrest. This is not merely a matter of me being dense, every other sim I had flown had fixed non-adjustable views for each plane.

Fourth, I would highly suggest a good instruction manual explaining to new players how to use all of the game's features be included in PDF form with the download.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Oldman731 on June 25, 2014, 09:29:57 PM
I don't think the game is all that tough to set up for a normal person.


...er...well...I suppose no one has ever accused me of being a normal person, but setting up my joystick and throttle took me forever.  That may be necessary, given all the available options and the need to work with all manner of joysticks.  FSX and X-Plane aren't a whole lot easier. 

B&Z's observation that a pdf manual would be helpful would be a great help in dealing with this.

- oldman
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gray on June 25, 2014, 10:12:47 PM
Today I did my part.  The Comcast guy left my house after making repairs to my stuff and then flying and landing a D3.   He drove away with a big grin.  He says "what if I get addicted?".    I said "so?".    Spread the word to one and plant a seed.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: scott66 on June 25, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
Today I did my part.  The Comcast guy left my house after making repairs to my stuff and then flying and landing a D3.   He drove away with a big grin.  He says "what if I get addicted?".    I said "so?".    Spread the word to one and plant a seed.
LOL very nicely done sir
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BaldEagl on June 25, 2014, 11:19:23 PM
Fourth, I would highly suggest a good instruction manual explaining to new players how to use all of the game's features be included in PDF form with the download.

This. 

I'd have never stayed in AW or here if I hadn't downloaded and printed the instruction manuals first.  I have a really hard time understanding how HT thinks people are going to figure out how to even get off the ground.  Most aren't going to go searching for the trainer's site, the help forum or the Wiki, most of which are also out of date.  It's almost as though he wants to make it as hard as possible on prospective new players.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: zack1234 on June 26, 2014, 02:06:57 AM
Download a set up manual would be a good idea

I have a 2K gaming system,G35 headset,Trackir and full CH setup and AH graphics are very nice.

The newer updates to Yak for example are very nice, the Tempest is poo because it is old.

The Hurricane graphics are very nice, the 110 has no joystick  because it is old

I must be playing a different game because WT,IL and ROF are not that impressive.

ROF multiplayer game plane is poor, offline mode is better which is says it all

I had a beta invite to WT and it was not very good,

If AH was not very good I would not pay $9 a month for it,

I have tried to contact AH in regards offering my business ideas to improve the game but so far I have had no replys, it must be my spam filter :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Karnak on June 26, 2014, 02:22:20 AM
3. Graphics - Simply put, they suck. War Thunder uses a graphics engine from 2008, so stating that graphics are tied to ultra-new tech doesn't cut it. Enough said.
I agree that graphics are an issue, but this is nonsense.  When the initial version of an engine is released has no bearing on what that engine needs or can do down the road.  Titanfall was made with the Source engine, the engine introduced with Half-Life 2 released in 2005.  Do you think a 2005 computer would be able to play Titanfall acceptably?  Elite Dangerous is using the Cobra engine, the same engine used on 2003's Roller Coaster Tycoon. World of Warcraft (2004) is using the engine created for Warcraft III (2002).  In all cases these engines have been continuously upgraded and the texture sizes and polygon counts increased.

Is War Thunder using a 2008 engine that has not been updated with new capabilities since 2008 and limiting itself to the texture sizes and polygon counts that are the 2008 limits?  I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BnZs on June 26, 2014, 02:55:20 AM
Perhaps some of you feel that prospective players who would judge a sim mostly upon graphics are somewhat shallow witted, and perhaps you are right. Nonetheless, their money would still serve to keep the doors open. :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 26, 2014, 03:37:26 AM
First, if Aces High isn't easy to find via a web search, that is a terrible problem. I don't know the technical details of that sort of thing but obviously it needs to be fixed.

Second, I see advertisements for War Thunder and Word of Warplanes when I open magazines like "Air Classic" or whenever I look at aviation-related videos on Youtube. I do not see advertisements for Aces High. Again, this is a problem, for obvious reasons.

Third, regarding views, here is a less radical suggestion: At least have the snap views for each plane adjusted to somewhat decent by default with the download. Everyone adjusts their views a little differently, but the default positioning is just bad. I think I flew for a week when I started before I knew you could adjust the rear view to see something besides headrest. This is not merely a matter of me being dense, every other sim I had flown had fixed non-adjustable views for each plane.

Fourth, I would highly suggest a good instruction manual explaining to new players how to use all of the game's features be included in PDF form with the download.

 :aok
 :aok
 :aok
 :aok
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 26, 2014, 03:52:02 AM
I've been around AH since about their launch.

Changes that I have seen, and probably will soon see, have been what the community has asked for.

There have been many, many excellent ideas and points of view discussed in this and numerous other threads.

HTC is a relatively small workforce (family) and where they have placed their focus, they rein at the head of the class.

Let me be one of the first to step forward and offer my service to compile a list of training "balloons" that hopefully could be automated in the map controller menu.
(I thought that was a wonderful idea from Kruel to bring newer players up to speed while online)

The single largest improvement in gameplay would be anything that would shorten the time from spawn to the time in action.
(Of course unless that is achieved by launching from capped fields to numerous vulch attempts).  :noid  :joystick:  :airplane:   :furious
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Copprhed on June 26, 2014, 03:57:59 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 26, 2014, 04:34:38 AM
Actually Copprhed,

Maybe the game is not that tough, but it is extremely customizable.  To the point that default settings such as stall limiter, combat trim, and rear (hat view positions in various aircraft) can severely handicap an inexperienced cartoon pilot in areas that have nothing to do with skill.

So much so, that before I do anything with my computer OS, or update to any newer version of the game, I always make a backup of my settings.  Add to that 4 different modes available to customize joystick settings and you can bet that anytime in the past that I lost those settings it took me weeks to dial them back to where I felt they were optimized.

Beyond that, getting to know the number of different aircraft types, their capabilities, strengths and weaknesses, etc. ..... well, I for one. hope to encourage as many new players as possible........... at least then I would be somewhere in the middle of the curve, and hopefully have a few good sortees before getting pwnd.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Copprhed on June 26, 2014, 05:04:40 AM
See Rules #4, #7
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Karnak on June 26, 2014, 05:53:55 AM
Actually Copprhed,

Maybe the game is not that tough, but it is extremely customizable.  To the point that default settings such as stall limiter, combat trim, and rear (hat view positions in various aircraft) can severely handicap an inexperienced cartoon pilot in areas that have nothing to do with skill.
Stall limiter is on by default.  I have long thought that the views for each aircraft should be set to near optimum positions by default.  Even if HTC just reaches out to the player base for those HPS positionings it would be an improvement.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: McShark on June 26, 2014, 07:23:51 AM
Stall limiter is on by default.  I have long thought that the views for each aircraft should be set to near optimum positions by default.  Even if HTC just reaches out to the player base for those HPS positionings it would be an improvement.

They are available from Murdr on trainer page. Download, put them in folder works as a basic.

Yet, this is one of the biggest issues whenever you start AH.

Who really knows everything about the game except extreme vets and our bookkeeper Lusche?
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 26, 2014, 07:28:51 AM
Who really knows everything about the game except extreme vets and our bookkeeper Lusche?


Yesterday I was asked how far troops do run. I could not answer this question  :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: TequilaChaser on June 26, 2014, 07:29:22 AM
Sounds like AH is too tough for the Damned....they have our permission to move on to WT. PLEASE.

Good Morning Copprhed,
Seeing how The Damned have been in AcesHigh since beta, and have never claimed or posted anything close to what your misguided assumptions appear to be, we forgive you for having the misfortune to not having the common ability of reading the posts of me or my squad members who might be a little extreme at times, at least are trying to participate and offer some good debatable suggestions to help retain or intice new customers...


Hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Zerstorer on June 26, 2014, 07:33:41 AM
With all due respect to everyone, I don't believe any of Skyyr's suggestions are unreasonable or off the mark. I think everyone here would like to see some improvements and an increase in the number of players. I don't want this game to become War Thunder in tone or number of players...but a tripling of the current player base would be a good thing...and that isn't going to happen without changes.

If a game is fun people will play it. If it's not fun they won't. In most cases fun means fair. Kinda simple.

I agree completely with the idea that people will play a game if they feel its fun...but what do you mean by "fair"?  Do you feel the game is unfair now? Are you claiming some play the game unfairly?
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kruel on June 26, 2014, 07:57:00 AM
Sounds like AH is too tough for the Damned....they have our permission to move on to WT. PLEASE.
Sounds like AH is too tough for the Damned....they have our permission to move on to WT. PLEASE.

We mainly post in these topics because we want to see the game improved, as new players its easy for us to make comparisons, and to look at the game a bit more objectively.

AH model is actually more forgiving of mistakes in maneuvering in the horizontal, it's actually was easier than other games, in that aspect at least.

It saddens me that your dislike for our squadron blinds you to the point that you would rather have less people in the game.

Fortunately, we don't need your permission to stick around and keep killing you. Just like in FA or any other sim we meet in. We don't let emotions blind us into making bad/subjective decisions.

Even if we don't like you we could agree with you even if you had a good idea or an idea we could discuss in a constructive manner.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: lunatic1 on June 26, 2014, 08:01:47 AM

Yesterday I was asked how far troops do run. I could not answer this question  :old:
600 yards
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Fish42 on June 26, 2014, 08:31:04 AM
I have always found AH to be like EVE a few years ago when comparing learning curves.

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/RandomestDude/EveLearningCurve.jpg)

EVE:
1. You install the game.
2. Start Game
3. Pick your race/class
4. Get dumped into space with no help.
5-10. Get stomped into space junk by a Battleship who's container you opened because you did not know why the icon was that colour.

They have changed this alot in the last few years, now there are tutorials that take you through the basics of your ship control/mission & object interaction.


Now lets look at AH:

1. You install game. (Do you want to have the best graphics, well you better download that Highrez pack... where? on the front page of AH. Its under the download menu)
2. Start Game
3. Right. So now you want to fly. Do you have a joystick? No, well best go to the key bindings and see what controls what. You have never flown a flight game before where you had to control Yaw,roll and pitch? Do you know what Yaw is? See if you can find the help area on the website and the article that covers basic flight controls.  :bolt:

WW2 flight enthusiasts are a small group, the ones who also want to play a MMO WW2 Flight/combat sim is even smaller. You need to get people in and hook them early. I know that the rise of World of Tanks has really driven new interest into Mid 20th century armored combat. WT and World of planes have started to pique more interest in WW2 Air combat too. AH needs to be visible and accessible to snag some of those potential players. Cleaning up the process of installing and getting into the game will improve many new players initial impressions of the game. The next step is to ease them into the game if they have never played a flight sim before (or know the basic controls).

Most players never read manuals anymore. 99% of the time a game has inbuilt tutorials to bring the players up on the basics. Quick missions that can be loaded up smoothly in the Offline mode that talk you through the very basics of flight. These missions cannot rely on new players knowing how to navigate the clipboard. Even then you will have people who avoid even these basic help tools and dive right into the main game. (Me, I took 3 attempts to take off the first time in game as I was still working out the controls).

Hell Extra Credits does this better then I can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPcn-Q5nKE&feature=kp

Getting new players into the game and having fun, quickly and smoothly helps keeping new players engaged and stops them just leaving after the free trial period. I am not saying dumb down the flight models or game play.


Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kruel on June 26, 2014, 08:38:09 AM
Well said, Fish.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Delirium on June 26, 2014, 09:50:35 AM
deleted
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: hcrana on June 26, 2014, 10:30:54 AM
See Rules #2, #5
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Zerstorer on June 26, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
I must be playing a different game because WT,IL and ROF are not that impressive.

ROF multiplayer game plane is poor, offline mode is better which is says it all



It's all a matter of perspective.

IL2 (whatever incarnation you choose) and ROF are not "massive multiplayer", so the comparison isn't entirely fair.  One could make the arguement WT isn't "massive multiplayer" either, but they do like to position themselves as such...it certainly isn't in the way AH is.  But then again, AH isn't "massive multiplayer" in the way EVE Online or World of Warcraft are either. 

FYI - ROF would be more fun if more played it online...the servers are just never very full.  That said, I enjoy taking out my Spad 7 every now and then.  :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gman on June 26, 2014, 01:54:35 PM
Fish - I laughed at the EVE flow chart, that was my experience precisely both times I tried it.  So much win in that paragraph/list.  In game tutorials helped me the third time with Eve in a big way, and I agree, that sort of tutorial thing, even a dedicated tutorial arena for new players, with that tutorial missions built in would be a super idea.

This game takes a certain type of player for certain, it'll never have that mass appeal of a FTP MMO like WT or WoT, but it certainly can get back to the days of having 2x as many people around, and more.

Baldegle, Fish, et al have the best suggestion of the thread IMO, better docs and manual, and an easy to find download button for them.  Having played for so long, and played WB before AH, I didn't ever read any of the docs or help files, and took them for granted.  I got thinking, after trying out Star Citizen without reading the docs, after about 5 minutes I found myself searching for the manual, in order to figure out wth was going on exactly.  I'm sure it's the same for new players here.  This is an extremely important point, critical really, and I hope action is taken to improve things in this regard - make it extremely central and simple for new players, have it all in one easy to find location on webpage/bbs, and stagger things in terms of some sort of learning curve.  Excellent and idea and points, those couple of members here that brought this issue up.  

I think HTC has a plan - I'd be shocked if they don't, and I don't blame them for sharing it right now either.  Once the "new" version is ready for prime time/beta/etc, I'll bet that they'll strike with whatever they've got up their sleeve in terms of advertising, promotion, and the other things being discussed here.  I'm very positive about the future, once the new version hits the download page, I'm still of the opinion that many guys will be coming out of the woodwork, as well as hopefully some new blood right off the bat.  Again, if only a tenth of a percent of those who are playing WT came here, the numbers issue would be history.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Bruv119 on June 26, 2014, 01:59:00 PM

Yesterday I was asked how far troops do run. I could not answer this question  :old:

 :eek:  the sky is falling!!!     :bolt:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BnZs on June 26, 2014, 02:03:58 PM

Baldegle, Fish, et al have the best suggestion of the thread IMO, better docs and manual, and an easy to find download button for them.  

*Ahem* :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: zack1234 on June 26, 2014, 02:22:31 PM
If I can learn AH anyone can, i am crap at reading instructions :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 26, 2014, 02:52:44 PM
600 yards


It's far greater than that, at least one mile.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 26, 2014, 02:53:19 PM
If I can learn AH anyone can


So why don't you do it then?  :old:
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 26, 2014, 03:26:49 PM
When we talk about learning curves for Aces High, it is mostly Aircraft Management followed by tricks of the trade. 

As difficult as we are making it seem, it really can be simplified by using common sense, and patience.  Experience will always be the best teacher, but the student must be able to move past their own preconceptions and accept what real life experiences have taught.

For example most enter the game with certain ideas about what a superb weapon the Mustang / 109 / Spitfire was in their time frame.  But it doesn't take long to figure out that E state, acceleration, climb rate, turn rate, and the master of them all, stall speed, will re write everything you thought you knew about flying either of the fore mentioned birds against an experienced pilot.

HTC already has a ton of training documents accessible through the website and online help, but this only gets you through the initial setup phase and onto the where do I point my weapon phase (viable targets / how much damage / what damage does).  However, it does very little to show HOW TO inflict damage.

HOW TO phase is the learning curve described in Fish's hilarious chart.  Here you have to get in the cockpit and quickly learn to develop SA situation awareness (where am I / where are my friends / where are the bad guys).  Just as important also is who are the bad guys / what are they doing and what is my plan.

My only suggestions for grasping the HOW TO, is to join a squad, especially one that has live round practice, or FSO (or other scenario promising air combat and target seeking opportunities).  Get a hold of one the online trainers and spend some time and record the lessons they provide, then practice what you have learned until polished...............  THEN U R A DWEEB... errrr WEAPON!   :D


It's far greater than that, at least one mile.

Don't ever doubt Snailman.  Remember the map with the 10k field with steep slope? I remember folks letting troops go at the bottom of the slope and them riding the escalator to the top on their way to the maproom.  :lol

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 26, 2014, 04:09:20 PM

I agree completely with the idea that people will play a game if they feel its fun...but what do you mean by "fair"?  Do you feel the game is unfair now? Are you claiming some play the game unfairly?
Is 20 v 5 fair? FFA matchmaking makes this situation possible. Just a fact.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BnZs on June 26, 2014, 04:15:04 PM
I think the learning curve would acceptable for the masses if we had some sensible matchmaking.

Such as advertisements in warbird magazines, on certain historical TV programming, and on Youtube when someone is watching gun camera footage? Yep.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 26, 2014, 04:19:04 PM
I think the learning curve would acceptable for the masses if we had some sensible matchmaking.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on June 26, 2014, 04:25:46 PM
Is 20 v 5 fair? FFA matchmaking makes this situation possible. Just a fact.

So does the current MA.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 26, 2014, 04:37:27 PM
I think the learning curve would acceptable for the masses if we had some sensible matchmaking.

I agree, this is why I place much emphasis on making the mission planner something that players from all countries use.

This places newer inexperienced players along side of experienced players where they may dispel myths and show (on the job) how to accomplish tasks. 

This goes from attacking strategic ground targets to learning how to maneuver with wingmen. 

I use the term wingmen, loosely but the concept is the same.  Clear your friendly pilot's 6 and learn to setup friendlies to allow them to clear your 6.

Such as advertisements in warbird magazines, on certain historical TV programming, and on Youtube when someone is watching gun camera footage? Yep.

I'm not sure but I think Bonez is implying that instead of trying to draw the WoW crowd into our ranks, we target a more specific demographic that already have some sense of difficulties ahead of them while learning a new online game.  I agree and disagree, I personally came from 2 other gaming formats Chain of Command, and beta WW2OL and rarely flew.  My very first fighter sim (and maybe only other before AH) was Red Baron (5 in floppy disks).   

I started out gameID TigerZ, failed miserably at shooting anyone down and then one day I stumbled on to a squad practicing taking down hangars and deacking with ponies (I believe it was Rolling Thunder).  They took me under their wing for the day and within minutes I was taking down hangars in one pass with a Mustang and deacking fields with rockets.  That began a Loooooo........ oooong run addiction with this game and many fun times with some really cool squadees.  :cheers:

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 26, 2014, 04:46:15 PM
Sunsfan,

I may have missed something on a re read on the thread.  There are those that love 20 to 5 odds, either way  :x  If I can get some of those 20 hovering over a friendly base that they "failed" to deack, my 20 to 5 odds are looking a bit brighter.   ;)

I can be lighter (carry less fuel).  I can respawn back to the fight quicker (win through attrition).  Or I can zip in above the crowd from another base and feast (or at least until a bad guy tops my altitude to do the same).  :)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: zack1234 on June 26, 2014, 04:51:40 PM

So why don't you do it then?  :old:

I am better looking than you and I look like woody allen :rofl
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 26, 2014, 04:56:47 PM


Is War Thunder using a 2008 engine that has not been updated with new capabilities since 2008 and limiting itself to the texture sizes and polygon counts that are the 2008 limits?  I highly doubt it.

Gaijin has updated their Dragor engine over the years since first releasing it in 2005.  I believe it's on its 3rd generation, version 3.0 or 3.5.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 26, 2014, 08:26:50 PM

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/RandomestDude/EveLearningCurve.jpg)

The bulldozer  :rofl ...  :rofl ...  :aok
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Brooke on June 26, 2014, 08:38:19 PM
It is funny, but it seems like everyone gets the graph completely wrong.

A "steep learning curve" shouldn't result in greater skill in less time.  So, the axes really should be swapped.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 27, 2014, 03:47:07 AM
i see a treacherous cliff littered with death, that once scaled, leaves one in a mass grave, only to plateau and be scraped up by the ever present bulldozer.

sounds about right.

 :lol
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Babalonian on June 27, 2014, 10:17:53 AM
i see a treacherous cliff littered with death, that once scaled, leaves one in a mass grave, only to plateau and be scraped up by the ever present bulldozer.

sounds about right.

 :lol

Spot on
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: bj229r on June 27, 2014, 02:48:43 PM
Decline in numbers started in '08, as best I can recall (recession....I can understand how folks have to make choices....since then, many alternatives to paid subscription games have popped up) That being said, any number of long-timers I know who have moved on, mostly bemoan the "same ole-same ole"....NOT of the graphics, but of gameplay. I'm not sure how you can coad out dweeby behavior
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Lusche on June 27, 2014, 03:03:53 PM
That being said, any number of long-timers I know who have moved on, mostly bemoan the "same ole-same ole"....NOT of the graphics, but of gameplay. I'm not sure how you can coad out dweeby behavior


"Same ole, same ole" happens to almost any player in any game, totally regardless of "dweeby behaviour". At some point you have seen it all, and often with less enthusiasm and less excitement you are much more prone to notice the "bad things" as well. In fact, the personal concept of "dweebery" might change a lot as a player progresses. He may perceive and speak out against things he had done himself with great pleasure years before... I have noticed that quite a lot of times.

When I joined AH, I was totally excited by the fact I was able to fly WW2 planes against other fighters alone. I had such a great time and so much more exciting fights... I still have some of that early films of mine, and actually those exciting and palm sweating dogfights were often pretty sucky ones... Bad control, full of HO's, 6k extending and so on.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Vudak on June 27, 2014, 08:52:47 PM
Decline in numbers started in '08, as best I can recall (recession....I can understand how folks have to make choices....since then, many alternatives to paid subscription games have popped up) That being said, any number of long-timers I know who have moved on, mostly bemoan the "same ole-same ole"....NOT of the graphics, but of gameplay. I'm not sure how you can coad out dweeby behavior

I know I don't really count as a "long timer" having only started this game in 2004 or so and only having gotten into Air Warrior for AWIII...  But the "same ole-same ole", for me at least, was self-inflicted.  The second that I started trying to give everyone a good fight and stop being part of what I at the time perceived to be a problem (head-ons, ganging, vulching, etc.) was the second I backed myself into a corner where there was really only one element of the game left to me, and it very quickly got stale. 
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on June 27, 2014, 09:08:30 PM
I know I don't really count as a "long timer" having only started this game in 2004 or so and only having gotten into Air Warrior for AWIII...  But the "same ole-same ole", for me at least, was self-inflicted.  The second that I started trying to give everyone a good fight and stop being part of what I at the time perceived to be a problem (head-ons, ganging, vulching, etc.) was the second I backed myself into a corner where there was really only one element of the game left to me, and it very quickly got stale. 

Hey Vudak! Long time brother!  <S>

I agree that the 'same old..." is a self inflicted state. Personally I still fly buff runs to see how high a milk run point total I can get. I still jump ina GV now and then to see if I can get a shot off on a tank before I get killed  :P

The game is what you make of it. I think too many get stuck in  that "same old..." thing and that is the biggest cause of people leaving.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chilli on June 28, 2014, 03:07:36 AM
Umm...... I ....err think..... (that's where this post of mine goes wrong)... Folks leave sometimes because they miss the "old" days.......   :old:

I am not leaving, but I sure miss the time when 50 caliber rounds killed field guns and town buildings, without using up half of my ammo.

I miss when there were @500 players on and over half of them weren't hovering over my head trying to capture one field for 45 minutes.

I miss taking 4 nik2s, and a goon and capturing a field in about 10 minutes.

So, is Aces High a memory of good times past?  I would say yes.  fixed
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: NatCigg on June 28, 2014, 03:36:33 AM

"Same ole, same ole" happens to almost any player in any game, totally regardless of "dweeby behaviour". At some point you have seen it all, and often with less enthusiasm and less excitement you are much more prone to notice the "bad things" as well. In fact, the personal concept of "dweebery" might change a lot as a player progresses. He may perceive and speak out against things he had done himself with great pleasure years before... I have noticed that quite a lot of times.

When I joined AH, I was totally excited by the fact I was able to fly WW2 planes against other fighters alone. I had such a great time and so much more exciting fights... I still have some of that early films of mine, and actually those exciting and palm sweating dogfights were often pretty sucky ones... Bad control, full of HO's, 6k extending and so on.


this is true.

forever young  :salute
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: LLv34_Dictonius on June 28, 2014, 08:41:55 AM
So, is Aces High a memory of good times past?  I would say yes.  fixed

yes good ole AH,  AH II having to share the same fate when the AH III comes out some day...

Those memories... diving to a formation of buffs and killing them in one stroke of trigger and doing the same again and again, killing the entire town in 110, landing and bringing in the troops - base captured. Those were the happy happy days :)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Zerstorer on June 28, 2014, 08:11:08 PM
Is 20 v 5 fair? FFA matchmaking makes this situation possible. Just a fact.
Say
Nope...but neither is life in general. I fine it a lot of fun to fight outnumbered.


But if you are really concerned about it perhaps you should have an internal conversation with other members of your own squad who seem to...ahh...run with dah horde, set a on cap bases with no intention of capturing, and then proceed to vulch like its going out of style.  Or baring that...if they would drop the self-rightious posing and simply admit they do it just like everyone else it would be a great start.

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 29, 2014, 03:19:21 AM
Say
Nope...but neither is life in general. I fine it a lot of fun to fight outnumbered.


But if you are really concerned about it perhaps you should have an internal conversation with other members of your own squad who seem to...ahh...run with dah horde, set a on cap bases with no intention of capturing, and then proceed to vulch like its going out of style.  Or baring that...if they would drop the self-rightious posing and simply admit they do it just like everyone else it would be a great start.


Games in general are fun... What other reason is there... A fun game is fair. A fair game is fun. Simple.

What makes it possible for the Muppets to do what you describe in the first place? It's not fair man.... we both agree.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 29, 2014, 03:23:09 AM
Boo! :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 29, 2014, 03:26:12 AM
Haven't flown in years!!  Sunbat has my CH gear and reduced to a laptop.  If I get a decent set up, I'll come back for sure.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 29, 2014, 03:35:19 AM
Decline in numbers started in '08, as best I can recall (recession....I can understand how folks have to make choices....since then, many alternatives to paid subscription games have popped up) That being said, any number of long-timers I know who have moved on, mostly bemoan the "same ole-same ole"....NOT of the graphics, but of gameplay. I'm not sure how you can coad out dweeby behavior


Yeah, I was laid off in '10 and out of work for close to 2yrs.  Been a CNC Machinist for 2yrs this July.  Working Nights.  Missed you peoples.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on June 29, 2014, 03:46:35 AM
I think that's a good point, same ol' same ol'.


Doesn't matter what it is or how great, when you have had too much of even a great thing, your full.




Im retired from aces high, not because i don't like it, i love the taste, im just full. And i don't feel like paying for another plate.
Sadly i feel nothing can be done to get me back. -pukes up 1999 aircraft models- yup! still too full.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 29, 2014, 04:12:13 AM
When did the WWI planes come out?  Think I left shortly after.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: zack1234 on June 29, 2014, 04:21:36 AM
Game is very good and there is nothing up with it :old:

Except the Brewster which is the devil incarnate :old:

I miss you all :cry

When AHIII  is out I give it 6 months and the ego boys will be talking about Air Warrior again.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: ghi on June 29, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
imo the map auto reset time should change to 24-36 hours; this large maps are dead, no fights, almost impossible to reset with this low # and the increased base capture difficulty;  ;I'm not surprised people are abandoning the game; is boring simply boring ; look at this map running in MA today, was on for 6 days and 15 hours  ;!!!!! :bhead
 This game was more fun on H2H years ago, small map 2-4 bases and 8 players, I would trade the eye candies for a system reset to 2003, was better for tactic/strategic  gaming, more dynamic ;
 I used to work at sea  on cruise ships, we did same time 7 days at sea in trans Atlantic cruises from New York  to Lisbon; people would have jumped overboard without some entertainment, shows and various food menu every day;

(http://i.imgur.com/O9CynAel.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Zerstorer on June 29, 2014, 10:07:50 AM
Games in general are fun... What other reason is there... A fun game is fair. A fair game is fun. Simple.

What makes it possible for the Muppets to do what you describe in the first place? It's not fair man.... we both agree.

If you are referring to the Rule That Shall Not Be Named...then yes we do.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Baine on July 01, 2014, 09:42:52 PM
I left because I no longer had the time to fly 20-30 hours per week. Only logging on a couple of hours per week, I had no interest in spending 5-10 minutes flying to a fight that I no longer had the skills to win and would lose very quickly. I commute in real life, I don't want to do it for "fun."
Also, it appeared to me that HTC was hellbent on eliminating the enjoyment from the game. Remember tank town?  Hundreds of people would spend hours jumping into a fight. Get killed, jump right back in. It was like eating popcorn and a helluva lot of fun. Then it went away. Now if I want to fight in a vehicle, I have to drive for 5 minutes to get killed by someone I can't see. Why bother?
Finally, HTC kept tweaking the rules, by the time I left I had no idea what it took for my country to win the war, and if we were winning, it was made so unpleasant that I'd log off rather than fly an old school bus armed with a .22 rifle that only fired on Tuesdays because my side had an advantage in numbers.
I miss my squadmates, but if I want to fly, I jump on IL-2, do a quick mission to get my fix and don't have to deal with folks who know better than me what I should be enjoying.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: TonyJoey on July 01, 2014, 10:11:51 PM
imo the map auto reset time should change to 24-36 hours; this large maps are dead, no fights, almost impossible to reset with this low # and the increased base capture difficulty;  ;I'm not surprised people are abandoning the game; is boring simply boring ; look at this map running in MA today, was on for 6 days and 15 hours  ;!!!!! :bhead
 This game was more fun on H2H years ago, small map 2-4 bases and 8 players, I would trade the eye candies for a system reset to 2003, was better for tactic/strategic  gaming, more dynamic ;
 I used to work at sea  on cruise ships, we did same time 7 days at sea in trans Atlantic cruises from New York  to Lisbon; people would have jumped overboard without some entertainment, shows and various food menu every day;

(http://i.imgur.com/O9CynAel.jpg)

^^^ THIS ^^^
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: SunBat on July 01, 2014, 10:22:02 PM
Haven't flown in years!!  Sunbat has my CH gear and reduced to a laptop.  If I get a decent set up, I'll come back for sure.

RATTFINK!?!?!? I have your gear, it is waiting for you.  I still love this silly game. Don't get as much of a chance to play as in the good ole days but I'm around.  You must have lost my number; check your PM's.  Call me, we need to catch up.

<S> Old Friend
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kodiak on July 02, 2014, 07:13:56 AM
I left because I no longer had the time to fly 20-30 hours per week. Only logging on a couple of hours per week, I had no interest in spending 5-10 minutes flying to a fight that I no longer had the skills to win and would lose very quickly. I commute in real life, I don't want to do it for "fun."

^^^Truth^^^

An epiphany for many new players also.  "Do I focus all of my gaming hours entirely on this game just to rise above commuter skill level?"  Based on the falling numbers in the MA which would indicate falling new player retention levels the answer for many new players is probably "no."

Even a two tier system that separates noobs from the rest of the pack might have a dramatic impact on the "fun" factor for noobs.  Maybe two arenas: the K/D 1.00+ arena and the less than 1.00 K/D arena.  Hitech could figure something out if they put their mind to it.

Other games have tiered systems of experience...why not Aces High.  Most noobs don't want to hear about the "right of passage" and all that nonsense, they just want to have fun and would move up naturally to the higher tiered arena as they gained experience.  They don't need to be shot down in two turns by some guy with a 5.0 K/D to learn.  This "feed me baby seals, they will learn" rhetoric is baloney when a player is only able or willing to play Aces High 10 to 15 hours a month.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: guncrasher on July 02, 2014, 08:21:23 AM
really zodiac. _put. a little more thought into those two arenas and imagine what would happen.



semp
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: The Fugitive on July 02, 2014, 09:55:12 AM
I think the two arena system would work as long as there was a limit installed. Newbs fighting newbs would be great for them to get the hang of things. The limit would have to be a certain number of kills, or a certain number of hours or something. This way you don't have sharks clubbing seals and they have to either move on the main arena or leave when they hit the limit.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kodiak on July 02, 2014, 10:55:53 AM
I think the two arena system would work as long as there was a limit installed. Newbs fighting newbs would be great for them to get the hang of things. The limit would have to be a certain number of kills, or a certain number of hours or something. This way you don't have sharks clubbing seals and they have to either move on the main arena or leave when they hit the limit.

That's why I thought the K/D would work to keep the sharks out.  You can only change your in-game name once every 30 days (or something like that), so it would be hard to keep coming back as a supposed "noob" if you had to change your name or create a new account every time your K/D rose above 0.99 as determined when the score stats update each night.  There would be threshold players who would hover around 1.00 and bounce back and forth, but that might be a good thing as they start to venture into the veteran arena.  I'm not saying close the veteran arena to noobs, they can fly in it if they want.  But close the noob arena to anyone with a Fighter or Attack K/D of 1.00 or higher (or whatever Hitech determines the right number is).  This would reset each month, and sure a shark could fly in the noob arena the first time he plays each month when his stats are zero, but the next time he plays his score would lock him out.  It wouldn't be perfect, but it would create a fairly good balance between skilled and unskilled players.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Slate on July 02, 2014, 11:15:12 AM
  Many now will seek out free to play games. Perhaps a free to play arena with a limited plane set would get some to transition to a subscription after they got thirsty for more.  :x  Why not open the WW1 arena to clean out the cob webs?

  This is a challenging game and not everyone is patient enough. Sadly many want quick gratification these days. Remember board games and how long they took to get going? Played Monopoly with my grandson for 3+ hours recently and that kid took all my money.  :eek:
 


  
  
  
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Baine on July 02, 2014, 09:00:43 PM
I don't think a two-tier system is the answer. I think giving people a chance to up, fight, die and then up, quickly fight and die again is the key. This game was fun with smaller maps and quicker fights. I didn't mind enduring the learning curve if I was having fun while I was doing it. I mean, when I would up into a furball I could always catch someone -even someone with lots of experience - who wasn't paying attention and get a kill or two. That was enough to keep me going and learning. As I got better, I learned to take off from a base a bit further away to up my chances of survival. But it was my choice to make that longer flight.
When I last played I no longer had that choice. Someone decided they were going to make it for me and the choice was to fly - a lot.
What got to me is that, if I got killed, I was facing a long flight back where the fight was a lot less hectic and enjoyable.
Two flights like that a night and I was ready to bag it. Finally I asked myself why am I paying for this?
I remember back in old Tank Town, I would spend hours in what seemed like minutes diving back into the raging fight and laughing out loud because I was having so much fun.
Same thing with a really close-fought base defense or capture.
There are still those fights out there, but they are few, far between and hard to find. I just didn't have the time or incentive to keep taking the time flying around looking for them. I also noticed I was no longer laughing.


 
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Iamtheknight on July 02, 2014, 09:13:39 PM
I don't think a two-tier system is the answer. I think giving people a chance to up, fight, die and then up, quickly fight and die again is the key. This game was fun with smaller maps and quicker fights. I didn't mind enduring the learning curve if I was having fun while I was doing it.
I agree entirely.

Listen, I just met you, and this is crazy, but we probably HAVE to DA sometime.  :aok :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Schen on July 02, 2014, 09:35:12 PM
If you did this tier split, hit percent on kinda a bell kurve as well as kills per hour combined with kd

-You can hide ur kd, but that means purposely dieing
- kills per hour, you want baby seals can you sit below a 3 kills an hour average
- if you give up deaths lower your kd ( feeding kills to noobs hmmm) are you as well going to forcefully shoot bad, giving them a chance or will you take those shots ( the ones yesrs of playing have given, the sight picture built into your mind, find the right combination of those three and kick with notice to move up a tier


We could do 3 tiers ( oh hey 3 arenas , 2 used to farm perks cough cough ( have earned each and every one of my perks late war ma)

Botom 1/3 arena open to confirmed (not a reapeat ip) 2 weekers up to the-
2/3 areana even the ranked 1/3 can fly there, then
 The all welcoming arena

You can even label then beginner intermediate and expert.  There is a clan ranking in cod ghoasts you know if u suck if ur in bronze  ( played cod semi competivly for 8 years before i found this game )the differance being any one can play expert but only those with the right skill can play the bottom 2 yada yada.


Food for thought
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: guncrasher on July 02, 2014, 10:34:10 PM
^^^Truth^^^

An epiphany for many new players also.  "Do I focus all of my gaming hours entirely on this game just to rise above commuter skill level?"  Based on the falling numbers in the MA which would indicate falling new player retention levels the answer for many new players is probably "no."

Even a two tier system that separates noobs from the rest of the pack might have a dramatic impact on the "fun" factor for noobs.  Maybe two arenas: the K/D 1.00+ arena and the less than 1.00 K/D arena.  Hitech could figure something out if they put their mind to it.

Other games have tiered systems of experience...why not Aces High.  Most noobs don't want to hear about the "right of passage" and all that nonsense, they just want to have fun and would move up naturally to the higher tiered arena as they gained experience.  They don't need to be shot down in two turns by some guy with a 5.0 K/D to learn.  This "feed me baby seals, they will learn" rhetoric is baloney when a player is only able or willing to play Aces High 10 to 15 hours a month.

zodiak that is a laughable suggestion.  it reminds me so much of all the threads on wot that want all accounts with less than a 50% win rate banned, i guess they never really think that eventually there would only be one account left.

what makes you think that most of those who move up to the 1 K/D will stay there? wont 1/2 of them have less than 1 K/D in less than 1 month regardless of skill?

and of course those who stay in the less than 1 K/D will eventually move up regardless of skill and we would end up with one arena like now except for the last guy who lost the last match of the less than 1 K/D arena and now is stuck flying alone, until somebody subscribes and is able to move up.


semp
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Gray on July 02, 2014, 11:11:57 PM
Can we turn off kill shooter for just a few minutes?  :D
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Kodiak on July 03, 2014, 12:26:19 AM
zodiak that is a laughable suggestion.  it reminds me so much of all the threads on wot that want all accounts with less than a 50% win rate banned, i guess they never really think that eventually there would only be one account left.

what makes you think that most of those who move up to the 1 K/D will stay there? wont 1/2 of them have less than 1 K/D in less than 1 month regardless of skill?

and of course those who stay in the less than 1 K/D will eventually move up regardless of skill and we would end up with one arena like now except for the last guy who lost the last match of the less than 1 K/D arena and now is stuck flying alone, until somebody subscribes and is able to move up.


semp

...then, however they determine tiered systems in other games would work.  Hitech could figure it out, I'm sure.  And we wouldn't need a whole bunch of levels, just 2 or 3 should do it.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: 999000 on July 03, 2014, 09:58:18 AM
Nothing is wrong with the game....only thing really affecting the number of players is the Free online games that have pooped up in  the last two years...and you get what you pay for. <S>
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Wiley on July 03, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
Nothing is wrong with the game....only thing really affecting the number of players is the Free online games that have pooped up in  the last two years...and you get what you pay for. <S>

I was kind of wondering where the influx of squeakers was this year, then I remembered the F2P options...

Wiley.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Zerstorer on July 03, 2014, 11:56:35 AM
Nothing is wrong with the game....only thing really affecting the number of players is the Free online games that have pooped up in  the last two years...and you get what you pay for. <S>

"Pooped up?˝

"Forget it. He's rolling.˝*
 
 :D





* with apologies to Animal House.  ;) :aok
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Skyyr on July 03, 2014, 12:11:23 PM
If you did this tier split, hit percent on kinda a bell kurve as well as kills per hour combined with kd

-You can hide ur kd, but that means purposely dieing
- kills per hour, you want baby seals can you sit below a 3 kills an hour average
- if you give up deaths lower your kd ( feeding kills to noobs hmmm) are you as well going to forcefully shoot bad, giving them a chance or will you take those shots ( the ones yesrs of playing have given, the sight picture built into your mind, find the right combination of those three and kick with notice to move up a tier


We could do 3 tiers ( oh hey 3 arenas , 2 used to farm perks cough cough ( have earned each and every one of my perks late war ma)

Botom 1/3 arena open to confirmed (not a reapeat ip) 2 weekers up to the-
2/3 areana even the ranked 1/3 can fly there, then
 The all welcoming arena

You can even label then beginner intermediate and expert.  There is a clan ranking in cod ghoasts you know if u suck if ur in bronze  ( played cod semi competivly for 8 years before i found this game )the differance being any one can play expert but only those with the right skill can play the bottom 2 yada yada.


Food for thought

They tried similar options in FA and those didn't work. In the end, they ended up creating a Baby Seals Arena and then not allowing players in over a certain rank. The primary difference here is that FA had lifetime stats, while AH does not. Perhaps included a lifetime score, as well as tour scores, could help in this area.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Chugamug on July 03, 2014, 07:03:01 PM
As far as low numbers goes, I would think Tablets have replaced many a PC in the last 2 years. :noid
Sales of Tablets vs PCs are prolly heading opposite directions, losing AH some potential customers.
If that's so, I wonder if making AH for the MAC would be an option worth the effort?  What would be the increase in the size of the customer base by doing this? 
That could be why there isn't that many squeakers this summer.  :old:

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Vraciu on July 03, 2014, 07:17:01 PM
They tried similar options in FA and those didn't work. In the end, they ended up creating a Baby Seals Arena and then not allowing players in over a certain rank. The primary difference here is that FA had lifetime stats, while AH does not. Perhaps included a lifetime score, as well as tour scores, could help in this area.

LT scores and smaller maps.

Warbirds was far more dynamic.  The fronts moved and the ebb and flow was fun.    These maps are painful....

Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Threeup on July 03, 2014, 09:14:31 PM
I have found numbers going down steadily – no surprise there.

I would think that a rotation of smaller maps until that number starts increasing to something approaching previous levels is the only solution short term that makes sense.

This game is particularly addictive and despite the constant complaining, most of the usual crew stay on. I only hope that HTC has got a very good plan to “spread the word” and retain those new addicts that come for the improved graphics.

And you can’t discount the effect that War Thunder has had recently accompanied by World of Tanks.

A fight, when it’s all said and done, really only has to consist of two participants after all, but it would be nice to go outside the “usual suspects” once  in a while.
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: Butcher on July 03, 2014, 09:50:15 PM
I resubscribed a few days ago, however given my hours to actually fly, I managed a few sorties which I couldn't even spot a red target. I did try to switch countries (but by the time I did, the fight died off).
Unfortunately I don't want to be a BBS warrior and post when I don't even play, I tried to - I simply just can't even get a fight going.

Its been a pleasure, ser in the skies.


Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: hcrana on July 04, 2014, 01:04:00 PM
Can we turn off kill shooter for just a few minutes?  :D

+1
Title: Re: Is Aces High II soon to become just a memory of good times past?
Post by: alskahawk on July 04, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
imo the map auto reset time should change to 24-36 hours; this large maps are dead, no fights, almost impossible to reset with this low # and the increased base capture difficulty;  ;I'm not surprised people are abandoning the game; is boring simply boring ; look at this map running in MA today, was on for 6 days and 15 hours  ;!!!!! :bhead
 This game was more fun on H2H years ago, small map 2-4 bases and 8 players, I would trade the eye candies for a system reset to 2003, was better for tactic/strategic  gaming, more dynamic ;
 I used to work at sea  on cruise ships, we did same time 7 days at sea in trans Atlantic cruises from New York  to Lisbon; people would have jumped overboard without some entertainment, shows and various food menu every day;

(http://i.imgur.com/O9CynAel.jpg)

 Agree one hundred percent. There are certain maps, as soon as they come up in the rotation you know they are going to be there for 7 days. And why play 7 days on a map you hate? That map you showed actually has a good balance of tank battles/air battles but it is old and everyone knows it. There are some of the maps that are heavy carrier/air biased so it means that the tank guys take a few days off. Another problem is the three country setup. It works if all three fight each other but usually one country ends up fighting a two front war. It's just a reality. Am I going to go and fight against a unfavorable situation or am I going to join the dog pile? Change maps in the rotation. Put in a winter map. Put in a European map. A pacific only map. Do some night. Not just the dusk. But real night. It doesn't have to be for 8 hours. Just throw it in there for some variation. Bring in some weather. clouds. Restrict the arena to 200 people on the smaller maps. Create some movement to the other arena's.