Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: Skyyr on June 29, 2014, 01:43:27 PM
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Accusations of "h2h," "HO," "skillless," and such ensued after shooting down the encountered aircraft, so I thought I'd consult the intelligible masses here. What would the majority of you consider this shot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCiFRJqJ8KU
Consider:
1. The target clearly had no guns solution
2. The target clearly had time to maneuver out of plane
3. The shot was made from 215-225* deflection (i.e. 35-45* from head-on), making it impossible to be an actual head-on, h2h, etc. type of shot by definition.
What say you?
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Flanking into Beaming aspect.
I also say you come into the BBS way too much with these types of films; once a month I would recommend. Try a compilation of semi controversial shots and do 10-20 at a time.
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What say you?
By the book definition of a head on it clearly was not a HO.
But a cheap and boring way to play. Nothing else in the sky. Perfect chance for a real fight. It would have made an interesting fight if you had taken the offered cold merge, although I expect you knew you would end up running home, tail between legs vs a decent ki84 stick because you perhaps don't practice ACMs, you perhaps just practice high speed deflection shooting.
This was a waste of time shot to take. That's how I see the game anyway. I'm sure for you it's only about getting kills credited to your score card, in which case, go right ahead and play that way. Everyone enjoys different ways of playing and some have much lower standards of respect than others.
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By the book definition of a head on it clearly was not a HO.
Thought so. Thank you for confirming it.
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Reminds me of a guy saying I HOed him when all of my rounds hit his belly and side :rofl
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What say you?
While I quite enjoy some of your films, I find your increasingly transparent underlying motivation a little disturbing. Not being able to just do your thing without turning every criticism or ideological difference into a long-term grudge or soap opera rather smacks of a very deep insecurity. It's becoming apparent your primary purpose here isn't to fly, it's just a means to another objective.
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HO no...but a cheap shot for sure. If the enemy plane can easily get to HO then might as well pass up on the shot and let the fight carry on.
I don't take these shots even when I'm being ganged because you ruin another players in game experience doing it.(They have to re up and fly back to flight when maybe they only have an hour or so to play)
Your good enough in that dora to make that a fun fight.
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By the book definition of a head on it clearly was not a HO.
But a cheap and boring way to play. Nothing else in the sky. Perfect chance for a real fight. It would have made an interesting fight if you had taken the offered cold merge, although I expect you knew you would end up running home, tail between legs vs a decent ki84 stick because you perhaps don't practice ACMs, you perhaps just practice high speed deflection shooting.
This was a waste of time shot to take. That's how I see the game anyway. I'm sure for you it's only about getting kills credited to your score card, in which case, go right ahead and play that way. Everyone enjoys different ways of playing and some have much lower standards of respect than others.
Personally I'd say it was a HO because you didn't maneuver for a fight, but I'll ease up and just say I agree with mechanic's statement.
HO no...but a cheap shot for sure. If the enemy plane can easily get to HO then might as well pass up on the shot and let the fight carry on.
I don't take these shots even when I'm being ganged because you ruin another players in game experience doing it.(They have to re up and fly back to flight when maybe they only have an hour or so to play)
Your good enough in that dora to make that a fun fight.
Maybe not, he does seem to post a lot of "HO" films.
.....oh and by the way, H2H usually means two players fighting head to head, a HO is not a fight.
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Reminds me of a guy saying I HOed him when all of my rounds hit his belly and side :rofl
HO no
I agree with mechanic's statement.
Perfect. Thank you!
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Entirely the Ki84 pilots' fault I'd say. If I got shot this way, I'd definitely call it my own fault. But then again I do that anytime I get shot in any manner whatsoever. :old: He didn't move at all on the merge, almost looks like he was AFK. With any kind of defensive jink, the Ki would have won angles. I also think it perfectly reasonable for a heavily armed but relatively un-maneuverable plane to take whatever shots it can get on an uber dogfighter like the Ki. I would have taken this shot. It is a multiple bandit arena, after all, and one often needs to put them down as quickly as possible. If the Ki had turned nose on or done anything effective really to make taking the shot a bad idea I would have done something else.
BTW, FWIW old friend I've been dueling Skyyr fairly often these last few months, and he wins at least half the time I'd say. You and I also did some dueling back in the day, and I have advanced some since that time. I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that.
Haven't seen in the game since I came back btw. I'd love to fly with or against you again sometime. :salute
By the book definition of a head on it clearly was not a HO.
But a cheap and boring way to play. Nothing else in the sky. Perfect chance for a real fight. It would have made an interesting fight if you had taken the offered cold merge, although I expect you knew you would end up running home, tail between legs vs a decent ki84 stick because you perhaps don't practice ACMs, you perhaps just practice high speed deflection shooting.
This was a waste of time shot to take. That's how I see the game anyway. I'm sure for you it's only about getting kills credited to your score card, in which case, go right ahead and play that way. Everyone enjoys different ways of playing and some have much lower standards of respect than others.
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I'm sure for you it's only about getting kills credited to your score card
I would consider that an axiom for 90% of the roster.
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BTW, FWIW old friend I've been dueling Skyyr fairly often these last few months, and he wins at least half the time I'd say. You and I also did some dueling back in the day, and I have advanced some since that time. I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that.
Haven't seen in the game since I came back btw. I'd love to fly with or against you again sometime. :salute
Perhaps you're right, I have not encountered Skyr in the game yet. I think my response was heavily influenced by the transparency Shida noted.
I've been up and about a bit lately, even logged some time in the MA this month. Lets go do some duels some time mate
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Accusations of "h2h," "HO," "skillless," and such ensued after shooting down the encountered aircraft, so I thought I'd consult the intelligible masses here. What would the majority of you consider this shot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCiFRJqJ8KU
Consider:
1. The target clearly had no guns solution
2. The target clearly had time to maneuver out of plane
3. The shot was made from 215-225* deflection (i.e. 35-45* from head-on), making it impossible to be an actual head-on, h2h, etc. type of shot by definition.
What say you?
"what say I?" The skyrr doth protest too much, methinks. .
And now, the rest of the story...... with your premature "cut" you conveniently replaced what I really said with "accusations ensued"
Being on the road at the moment I'll paraphrase myself..... but my reply was something to effect of "impressive h2h shooting skills displayed there" That..... degenerated into...... this. Not much more was said by me other than I was perfectly fine with what the film would show..... I still am. Granted there was a twinge of sarcasm in my initial reply but I stand by my characterization of what had just happened. Truth is, Junky almost had it right. While I wasnt exactly AFK.... I was guilty of the cardinal sin of texting and flying (she's worth even the humiliation of giving skyrr a free, easy, straight and level flying, h2h kill)
Skyrr had already witnessed several times earlier in the day that I, when at the controls had proven quite adept at avoiding countless attempts at "deflection front quarter shooting"...... not a single instance did I attempt to return the same "deflection" crap..... because I like batfink think its cheap. But by all means, protest away.... keep showing off your prowess at "front quarter deflection shots" on straight and level flying planes..... Im sure vraciu's adoration will soon escalate to worship.
Skyrock's "skilless" quote was his conclusion after you two's DA session. :)
I actually think that your "front quarter deflection shooting" is a skill..... just one that I learned and for the most part abandoned a long time ago.
Good day.
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Skyyr, why do you keep asking for approvals for front quarter shots? It is entirely up to you to decide if you want to take them or not and you do not need anyone's written approval for that. Most of the open HO "accusations" are a result of a hurt over-inflated ego, or someones disappointment that he was robbed of an easy kill on you because he got shot in the face before pulling a lead turn on you in a more maneuverable plane with more E. Grow a thicker skin and laugh about it.
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Skyyr, why do you keep asking for approvals for front quarter shots?
He's not. It's a very simple rule № 4 workaround.
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Nishi, you could have done a "skyyr" and claimed it was a training session trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes, but didn't. :aok
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Cheap shot not a HO.
With only one other plane around, it probably could have been avoided for fun.
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One more thing, had I been :joystick: at the controls I likely would have made the slight turn into him and made my break just before getting into gun range..... Just as I had done numerous times earlier in the day. Again, I complimented his h2h shooting abilities.... HO accusations were a figment of his own guilty conscience. I personally do see a distinction between what really happened and the way it was portrayed here.
:salute Nish
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I side with Nishi and Shida. While not a pure H2H shot, it's definitely front quarter and obviously someone taking the EASY way out. Shida labeled it correctly...someone just trying to add to their score card. While it looks impressive and most likely pads Skyrr's ego, to anyone who actually fights for his score, it's a CHEAP SHOT.
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While I don't agree with how Skyyr goes about things as far as coming here on the Forums with these videos with noticable ppl of worthy skill.
I will say that Skyyr's flying is nothing different from what I enjoy doing and what many others enjoy doing.
You can't go into the MA with a DA mindset and the same goes for the DA.
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Mechanic hit the nail pretty squarely with his post, and not the redacted version re-posted by Skyrr.
It was not a HO shot, but had Nishi continued toward you I would pretty much guarantee you would have pulled the trigger anyway, it certainly looked as though you were setting up for one. :old:
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Skyyrr, I think you air out your dirty laundry here on the board way too much.
Everything we do when we play, either makes the game better, or worse, including what we choose to post here on the boards.
In the future, refrain from these types of posts, please keep it to yourself or keep it within your squad, thank you <S>.
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all I know.....is I love the ignore feature :rock
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Really wish FA hadn't died; we wouldn't be dealing with this if that were the case.
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Really wish FA hadn't died; we wouldn't be dealing with this if that were the case.
HOing and cheap shots were ALWAYS an issue in FA...what's so different here? Same type of people, same cheep shots.
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HOing and cheap shots were ALWAYS an issue in FA...what's so different here? Same type of people, same cheep shots.
No, I mean Skyyrr would still be in FA, and not posting these mild trolls here.
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No, I mean Skyyrr would still be in FA, and not posting these mild trolls here.
Yeah....really. Amazing how one person can lower the bar so far.......
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Entirely the Ki84 pilots' fault I'd say. If I got shot this way, I'd definitely call it my own fault.
Truer words are rarely spoken. Amazes me to this day how some blame the other guy for pulling the trigger when they make a mistake. Its the MA, not the DA. If you feel like adhering to a code in the MA, fine. Just don't bank on the other guy having the same viewpoint or whine when it turns out they don't.
Take the shot if the other guy is dumb enough to give one to you. Guess he will be more careful next time. Or not.
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Truer words are rarely spoken. Amazes me to this day how some blame the other guy for pulling the trigger when they make a mistake. Its the MA, not the DA. If you feel like adhering to a code in the MA, fine. Just don't bank on the other guy having the same viewpoint or whine when it turns out they don't.
Take the shot if the other guy is dumb enough to give one to you. Guess he will be more careful next time. Or not.
Yeah, it's definitely easier than actually earning a kill....
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I would much rather see the RAW AH film file instead of these youtube videos
All I can gather from the video is a FW190 flying along and pulls a lead turn toward a ki-84 shooting him broadside from his front right quarter cowling back........
I do not see anything else in the youtube video that identifies itself to anything other than exactly that.......
I do not see any reference of a Head On shot, nor do I see any reference of anything else, outside of what appears to be the FW190 breaking toward the Ki84 and shooting it, with out the ki84 ever so much as not even flinching until after it has been hit.... what might at first look to be absolute poor SA, but none of us actually know what was going on here, the ki84 flyer could have been afk, could have been helping tie their daughter's shoe, etc...
nothing is on the text buffer or on the in-game vox to help lead to more insight to this particular fight
It is much better to post up the actual in-game raw films that includes and shows everything that is going on
long before the fight developes, while he fight developes, during the fight, and then after the fight is over with.....
could we please see the raw film footage from the game?
I really do not see where anyone can give an actual educated theory or answer without such film to review
hope this helps
TC
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Truer words are rarely spoken. Amazes me to this day how some blame the other guy for pulling the trigger when they make a mistake. Its the MA, not the DA. If you feel like adhering to a code in the MA, fine. Just don't bank on the other guy having the same viewpoint or whine when it turns out they don't.
Take the shot if the other guy is dumb enough to give one to you. Guess he will be more careful next time. Or not.
really Fulcrum? Have you read anything I wrote? Or are you just taking the sycophantic route? Plain and simple.... no blame was given, no whine was recorded... only perceived. Was it my fault? I've said nothing to the contrary. Rather I admitted to giving him an easy kill. Fact is, Skyrr shouldve added one more option to this threads title.... nonexistent SA...... because in this particular case, the film bears this fact out..... straight and level flying.... no one at the stick.... no attempt to evade.... none of my normal MO of H2H avoidance. I find this whole thing laughable.... that Skyrr felt the need to show off an incredibly easy unchallenged kill.... shows what a Stuart Smalley he is. He's good enough, he's smart enough.... and darn it Fulcrum and Vraciu like him!
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It seems like those like Skyyrr, manawar, etc usually have the most fragile egos, or at least ulterior motives to their timid flying. Rarely do you see them just take the shot, and when whining on 200 ensues, stay out of it.
A simple "sorry man, just flying to survive. I'll take any shot." would head much of it off. Instead, it's "lol, it's your fault. You *accepted my ho, didn't maneuver to avoid my pick while already engaged, had poor SA, insert meaningless and irrelevant stock phrase*." Or "quit whining, 6v1 is totally fair; it's your fault for not always brining 5 of your squadies with you, regardless of time of day, or not flying at 25k instead of my 20k, etc."
There's a few, like 2cmex, who seem to genuinely just be out to be as successful as possible by any means possible, but they seem to be the exceptions. The rest look to be either trying to build bulwarks against the reality of their own suckage, trolling to piss people off, or both.
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There's a few, like 2cmex, who seem to genuinely just be out to be as successful as possible by any means possible, but they seem to be the exceptions. The rest look to be either trying to build bulwarks against the reality of their own suckage, trolling to piss people off, or both.
You should give 2cmex a quick try in the DA sometimes :D
Players who actually suck don't piss anyone off or attract any attention. It is only when one kills other players that the :mad: begins to flow.
I have noticed a pattern: Every single really amazing shot in this game draws a lot of rage, whether it is Bruv, 2cmex, Skyyr, whatever. Probably because they aren't giving other players the "fight" they want, IOW they aren't missing shots and allowing the other guy to reverse. They are simply killing them without much maneuvering, and people more governed by emotions find this frustrating. Those of us governed by reason still feel frustration, but we realize that we can't very well criticize others for playing the game well.
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You should give 2cmex a quick try in the DA sometimes :D
Players who actually suck don't piss anyone off or attract any attention. It is only when one kills other players that the :mad: begins to flow.
I have noticed a pattern: Every single really amazing shot in this game draws a lot of rage, whether it is Bruv, 2cmex, Skyyr, whatever. Probably because they aren't giving other players the "fight" they want, IOW they aren't missing shots and allowing the other guy to reverse. They are simply killing them without much maneuvering, and people more governed by emotions find this frustrating. Those of us governed by reason still feel frustration, but we realize that we can't very well criticize others for playing the game well.
Skyyrr is obviously out to either build up his ego, or troll. That's the entire purpose of this thread. That he apparently is making a big deal over a rather innocuous comment only reinforces that.
Now I accept that they're playing the game "well" from their own perspective. From the "let's promote combat and dogfights" perspective, they are not.
I haven't even seen Skyyrr in the game, I have no personal problem with his flying. However, from what I've seen so far of his flying on film and his attitude here, a particular quote from President Obama comes to mind.
"He's a love muffin. He's talented, but he's still a love muffin"
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Was that really a good shot? Most two weekers could have made that shot. Most of them would have made it a kill not just a wounding too.
meh...
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Accusations of "h2h," "HO," "skillless," and such ensued after shooting down the encountered aircraft, so I thought I'd consult the intelligible masses here. What would the majority of you consider this shot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCiFRJqJ8KU
Consider:
1. The target clearly had no guns solution
2. The target clearly had time to maneuver out of plane
3. The shot was made from 215-225* deflection (i.e. 35-45* from head-on), making it impossible to be an actual head-on, h2h, etc. type of shot by definition.
What say you?
:lol
Skyyr the last time I was head-on with you, it was a "chicken" match. You had ALL intentions in HO'ing me, had I not turned my nose it would have been a HO or a ram whichever came first. Then the first thing you yell is "it was a deflection shot". haha I can't be bothered by even watching the film.
:rolleyes:
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:lol
Skyyr the last time I was head-on with you, it was a "chicken" match. You had ALL intentions in HO'ing me, had I not turned my nose it would have been a HO or a ram whichever came first. Then the first thing you yell is "it was a deflection shot". haha I can't be bothered by even watching the film.
:rolleyes:
The entire BBS will tell you how easy HOs are to avoid.
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really Fulcrum? Have you read anything I wrote? Or are you just taking the sycophantic route? Plain and simple.... no blame was given, no whine was recorded... only perceived. Was it my fault? I've said nothing to the contrary. Rather I admitted to giving him an easy kill. Fact is, Skyrr shouldve added one more option to this threads title.... nonexistent SA...... because in this particular case, the film bears this fact out..... straight and level flying.... no one at the stick.... no attempt to evade.... none of my normal MO of H2H avoidance. I find this whole thing laughable.... that Skyrr felt the need to show off an incredibly easy: unchallenged kill.... shows what a Stuart Smalley he is. He's good enough, he's smart enough.... and darn it Fulcrum and Vraciu like him!
Nishi:
None, and I mean N O N E, of my commentary was directed at you personally or meant to imply or critique your actions or in-actions. My comments reflect my attitude in towards the "I got HOed! You ended the fight too soon you dishonorable no talent dirtbag! You know I would totally stomp you a new mudhole if you gave me a chance" crowd.
If a pilot dies by HO in the MA its HIS or HER fault. Period. This has ALWAYS been my attitude and always will be. It is also the attitude of at least one member of your own squad.
Please stop construing my comments as being directed at you or a sycophantic defence of Skyyr. I realize you and Skyyr have a history going back to FA but that doesn't matter to me. If your roles were reversed and you had been the OP for this thread with Skyyr responding I would not have hesitated to make the same post.
:salute sir. Good to see you back. Good hunting.
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The entire BBS will tell you how easy HOs are to avoid.
Doesn't make them any less cheap, especially 1v1.
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Was that really a good shot? Most two weekers could have made that shot. Most of them would have made it a kill not just a wounding too.
meh...
Not sure I could make that shot but I'm not a very good shot to begin with!
I wouldnt call it a HO,infact I wish players would refrain from using that term and call it a John Wayne merge,you know where you come in guns a blazing!
I use the term acute frontal attack since it's an attack from the front at less than 90 degrees. Of an AFA if you need an acronym......
YMMV!
:salute
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Doesn't make them any less cheap, especially 1v1.
"Cheap" is a meaningless pejorative being used in place of logic.
The entire BBS will tell you that HOs are 1. Easy to avoid and 2. Allow you to easily get a positional advantage over the HOer. Therefore, you should thank someone for HOing you and making things easy on you, and feel a bit silly if you get hit by one, since all dogma teaches us that HOs are easy to avoid.
Furthermore, HOing is absolutely fair. They have a chance to shoot, and so do you, right? Situations where one dives on another plane's six give much less chance to the opponent (especially if the attacker is in a much more maneuverable plane), yet no one bats an eye.
"But BnZs, what if they have an enormous firepower advantage?"
What of it? No one bats an eye when people fly fighters that have an enormous turn-rate advantage over most.
"But BnZs, what if he has a firepower advantage AND the skill to hit me on the HO nearly every time?"
Now one is effectively complaining because the opponent has skill in the gunnery aspect of the game. As well complain because the other guy can do a really neat scissors.
BTW, if we make all shots from in front of the 3/9 line verboten, it will effectively disable energy fighters from being able to kill much-better turning fighters, because such fighters (like a Zero) can nearly always point their nose somewhere near the E fighter whenever they want, if not directly on it.
The following film is a decent example of that. This fellow is pretty lethal in that F4U-4 against planes that cannot match its vertical capacity, but against a K4 he has nothing to offer, even though a Kurt wouldn't normally be considered a match for a 4-Hog. First there are the repeated dive-aways at high speed. When terra firma puts an end to the dive-away and the Kurt continues to maintain pressure without foolishly entering a slow speed contest with the Hog, the Hog attempts the uber-skilled move of pulling back on the stick really hard to try the face shot, which the Kurt, packing a 30mm, gladly accepts.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qq6cqyah49xthg4/Cuervo_0018.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qq6cqyah49xthg4/Cuervo_0018.ahf)
(Spitfires especially tend to "defend" by pulling back on the stick really hard to point the nose at you. Oh yeah, that's uber-skilled right there. When face with this, I frequently "embrace death" as a samurai would say, and Ho/ram them right back. I consider it a lesson taught.)
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The entire BBS will tell you that HOs are 1. Easy to avoid
Not I.
A determined HO is pretty tricky to avoid.
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Not I.
A determined HO is pretty tricky to avoid.
In those cases then I would have to consider HOing to be an intelligent tactic, if one has a massive firepower advantage and good aim, especially when the HOer's plane is at a severe maneuverability disadvantage versus the opposition.
With my usual planes and aim of course, HOing will never be an intelligent tactic for me, merely a vengeful one. :t
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The whole point of the thread was for the OP to justify the shot he took.
Watch the film, it starts with the enemy in the up.forward view for a few seconds, then it is in the front view all the way up until the shot. This means the OP is diving. Check his indicator and you can see he is diving the whole time. He went for the HO, he never had any other intention to do anything else. In the 10+ second he has diving on the enemy and going for his HO he could have easily passed down the side passing parallel to the enemies flight path stay a few hundred feet wide and using a high-yo with a roll to come up over the top and drop on the enemy's 6.
He didn't, and this is the reputation he is building for himself. As he is called out more and more on his "favorite" move he tries to justify himself to the community with posts like this one.
What ever dude. Those of us who know better, know better. ;)
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"Cheap" is a meaningless pejorative being used in place of logic.
The entire BBS will tell you that HOs are 1. Easy to avoid and 2. Allow you to easily get a positional advantage over the HOer. Therefore, you should thank someone for HOing you and making things easy on you, and feel a bit silly if you get hit by one, since all dogma teaches us that HOs are easy to avoid.
Furthermore, HOing is absolutely fair. They have a chance to shoot, and so do you, right? Situations where one dives on another plane's six give much less chance to the opponent (especially if the attacker is in a much more maneuverable plane), yet no one bats an eye.
"But BnZs, what if they have an enormous firepower advantage?"
What of it? No one bats an eye when people fly fighters that have an enormous turn-rate advantage over most.
"But BnZs, what if he has a firepower advantage AND the skill to hit me on the HO nearly every time?"
Now one is effectively complaining because the opponent has skill in the gunnery aspect of the game. As well complain because the other guy can do a really neat scissors.
BTW, if we make all shots from in front of the 3/9 line verboten, it will effectively disable energy fighters to kill much-better turning fighters, because such fighters (like a Zero) can nearly always point their nose somewhere near the E fighter if they want, if not directly on it.
The following film is a good example of that. This fellow is pretty lethal in that F4U-4 against planes that cannot match its vertical capacity, but against a K4 he has nothing to offer, even though a Kurt wouldn't normally be considered a match for a 4-Hog. First there are the repeated dive-aways at high speed. When terra firma puts an end to the dive-away and the Kurt continues to maintain pressure without foolishly entering a slow speed contest with the Hog, the Hog attempts the uber-skilled move of pulling back on the stick really hard to try the face shot, which the Kurt, packing a 30mm, gladly accepts.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qq6cqyah49xthg4/Cuervo_0018.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qq6cqyah49xthg4/Cuervo_0018.ahf)
(Spitfires especially tend to "defend" by pulling back on the stick really hard to point the nose at you. Oh yeah, that's uber-skilled right there. When face with this, I frequently "embrace death" as a samurai would say, and Ho/ram them right back. I consider it a lesson taught.)
First off, HO'ing had an element of randomness, given bullet randomization. Skyyrr could be literally the worst cartoon pilot ever, literally unable to outmaneuver the supply convoys, and still get a kill on me by hitting my pilot. I've had this type of thing happen before, in the same manner as I've killed things with half-aimed fire at D900. It doesn't make me good, it makes me lucky.
It requires no skill as a pilot, only skill as a marksman. Especially 1v1 and without any clearly and dominatingly superior aircraft, I take it only as an admission of inferiority. If you do not maneuver when is not suicide to do so, I thank you for the complement.
Second, a HO can be looked at as a kick in the balls. It's generally considered a really toejamty thing to do, even in a fight. It's cripplingly painful if it connects squarely, pisses you off if it misses, takes no particular skill to do, ab you can do it right back. That doesn't mean that you're not an utter and complete arse-wipe if you do it and have other options.
In that sense, it's definitely a cheap move. Little skill required, chance at knocking your opponent out of the fight before he can maul you with superior skill, dicey. It's almost the text book definition of cheap. You see it right next to abusing exploits on console games.
And really, it's only a HO from maybe the10:30-1:30 position. And that's being generous. It's not like we're saying a full half of the aircraft is off limits, as you are ham-fistedly attempting to imply.
Fact is Skyyrr could have engaged in a maneuvering fight, and wouldn't have been consigning himself to death. Especially if he is as good as he would have us believe. He actively chose to take the easy road. This means either he is lazy, which is a mark against his person, or the other road is too hard for him, in which case I would direct him to our marvelous trainers. They can give him a run-down of BFM and ACM, give him a few practice dogfights, maybe go easy on the kid.
In either case, it is through a fault in himself, not in his opponent.
Feel free to fly as you feel is best. Just don't come to the boards trying to justify something you already know is generally frowned upon in an effort to shield your ego from reality.
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It requires no skill as a pilot, only skill as a marksman...
Gunnery is a part of being skilled as a pilot, and probably the most important part for being effective, in truth. I don't have it myself. However, unlike many, I don't positively hate those who do. "Good flying never killed anyone"-Who said that again?
Second, a HO can be looked at as a kick in the balls. It's generally considered a really toejamty thing to do, even in a fight. It's cripplingly painful if it connects squarely, pisses you off if it misses, takes no particular skill to do, ab you can do it right back.
I once proposed a set of rules for the MA which could be agreed upon and enforced, similar to the way the rule against kicking men in the balls is enforced in fight sports. I included a rule against HOing. Not a single person thought it was a good idea. So let me get this straight: This community is going to scream a resounding "NO!" to setting up some rules in a manner in which one could reasonably expect them to be followed, with sanctions for disobeying them. Yet they are still going to get their panties in a bunch when someone violates these same "non-rules" that they refuse to make formal. Hmmm...sounds like members of this community don't want to get rid of certain actions in the MA, they just want socially-acceptable options to get their panties in a bunch when they lose fights in certain ways. :D
Little skill required,
It would be an interesting experiment to deliberately go head-on against a Bruv, a Mex, or a Skyyr in matched planes. I am betting most people talking here, including you and I, would find themselves blowing up without doing severe damage to their planes. Little skill?
And really, it's only a HO from maybe the10:30-1:30 position. And that's being generous. It's not like we're saying a full half of the aircraft is off limits, as you are ham-fistedly attempting to imply.
That's still a massive amount of angles to be off-limits, and many many turn and burn fighters can pretty much get that close to pointing their nose at you every time when one is trying to kill them with a much less maneuverable bird. So I say again, many people's definition of "HO" would effectively rule out most of the shots an E fighters is likely to get against a TnB fighter.
Fact is Skyyrr could have engaged in a maneuvering fight, and wouldn't have been consigning himself to death.
In either case, it is through a fault in himself, not in his opponent.
The principle difference between the DA and the MA is the matter of time. In a duel one can maneuver for the perfect position indefinitely for all practical purposes. The MA, however, is an extreme multiple bandit situation-infinite airplanes upping all the time. Under those circumstances, taking too long to kill the bandit can often be a fatal mistake, even if one "wins" the fight. This used to happen to me all the time and I would inwardly be very frustrated by those "horrible horrible pickers". But this did not do anything to improve my fun or performance. Much better was accepting that the MA is what it is, and adapting accordingly. Now that bad end does not happen as often, and I generally enjoy the game more.
Conversely, just as taking too long to kill the bandit can be as fatal as bad mistake in ACM, killing the bandit with the first available shot is nearly always the smart thing to do in an arena where additional bandits ARE coming, whether they acre currently in icon range or not.
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Doing as Fugi suggested and simply swinging around on his six would have been a much preferable option than the one chosen. A head-on is generally not a good investment for someone wanting to survive.
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Plain and simple.... no blame was given, no whine was recorded... only perceived. Was it my fault? I've said nothing to the contrary. Rather I admitted to giving him an easy kill. Fact is, Skyrr shouldve added one more option to this threads title.... nonexistent SA...... because in this particular case, the film bears this fact out..... straight and level flying.... no one at the stick.... no attempt to evade.... none of my normal MO of H2H avoidance. I find this whole thing laughable.... that Skyrr felt the need to show off an incredibly easy unchallenged kill.... shows what a Stuart Smalley he is. He's good enough, he's smart enough.... and darn it Fulcrum and Vraciu like him!
Actually, you complained it was a "h2h" shot. Which is ironic, because...
no one at the stick
...you weren't at the stick, yet you clearly saw enough of the fight to see the setup, the shot, and then the kill. Interesting... :rolleyes:
Click (http://i.imgur.com/Bchvi4l.png).
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h2h is" hot to hot aspect ", you were lucky you got into the flanking aspect or your whole thread would have fallen in on you.
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h2h is" hot to hot aspect ", you were lucky you got into the flanking aspect or your whole thread would have fallen in on you.
I was aware of that from the moment I posted the thread.
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Gunnery is a part of being skilled as a pilot, and probably the most important part for being effective, in truth. I don't have it myself. However, unlike many, I don't positively hate those who do. "Good flying never killed anyone"-Who said that again?
Not so. Take away Latrobe's ability to BnZ/HO-pick/slash-shoot/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it, he'll still own 8 skyyrrs simultaneously all day. Take away skyyrr's ability to do the same to Latrobe.... you know what, screw it. Let him do what he wants. I bet he still loses to 1 Latrobe.
I once proposed a set of rules for the MA which could be agreed upon and enforced, similar to the way the rule against kicking men in the balls is enforced in fight sports. I included a rule against HOing. Not a single person thought it was a good idea. So let me get this straight: This community is going to scream a resounding "NO!" to setting up some rules in a manner in which one could reasonably expect them to be followed, with sanctions for disobeying them. Yet they are still going to get their panties in a bunch when someone violates these same "non-rules" that they refuse to make formal. Hmmm...sounds like members of this community don't want to get rid of certain actions in the MA, they just want socially-acceptable options to get their panties in a bunch when they lose fights in certain ways. :D
I've made no requests for enforced guidelines. I've always been a big proponent of mob-justice; Skyyrr behaves like a sweetheart, we treat him like a sweetheart and ostracize him. He shapes up, or just doesn't care and continues to act like a sweetheart. In either case, we either bring to heel a recalcitrant brat, or show his persona truly does reflect his person, in which case we should ostracize him for actually being a sweetheart instead of just behaving like one.
I've always enjoyed the game for two reasons; the historical immersion in special events, and the fights. Many greatly enjoy the fights as well. If we accept that the MA is always going to be the "win at any cost, ho-horde, vulch land", we give up on a big part of what we enjoy in the game. Structured duels are nice, but nothing matches the spontaneity and excitement of a random encounter. You're thinking "who is he, hows he going to fly? Am I better? Are we evenly matched? Is he better?" Unknowingly going up against Latrobe is better than knowingly going up against him; knowing its him, I also know his skill level far exceeds my own, that nothing I can do will beat him, and that I'd have more fun fighting someone else, with whom the match would be extremely close.
It would be an interesting experiment to deliberately go head-on against a Bruv, a Mex, or a Skyyrr in matched planes. I am betting most people talking here, including you and I, would find themselves blowing up without doing severe damage to their planes. Little skill?
I can hit a non maneuvering target at D800. Hell, I can hit the offline drones lazily drifting to the left at D800. What I suck at is judging the continuously changing lead caused by maneuvering; this is also what most people suck at. But a HO creates a target that is for all practical purposes non maneuvering. Hell, you even need to adjust less for the vertical drop, since he's flying at your rounds. Unless they're able to aim and fire accurately beyond D800 consistently, a dead-on HO is the best way to get both guys in the tower as quick as possible.
That's still a massive amount of angles to be off-limits, and many many turn and burn fighters can pretty much get that close to pointing their nose at you every time when one is trying to kill them with a much less maneuverable bird. So I say again, many people's definition of "HO" would effectively rule out most of the shots an E fighters is likely to get against a TnB fighter.
It amounts to 1/6th of their target profile. Hardly "massive"
The principle difference between the DA and the MA is the matter of time. In a duel one can maneuver for the perfect position indefinitely for all practical purposes. The MA, however, is an extreme multiple bandit situation-infinite airplanes upping all the time. Under those circumstances, taking too long to kill the bandit can often be a fatal mistake, even if one "wins" the fight. This used to happen to me all the time and I would inwardly be very frustrated by those "horrible horrible pickers". But this did not do anything to improve my fun or performance. Much better was accepting that the MA is what it is, and adapting accordingly. Now that bad end does not happen as often, and I generally enjoy the game more.
Conversely, just as taking too long to kill the bandit can be as fatal as bad mistake in ACM, killing the bandit with the first available shot is nearly always the smart thing to do in an arena where additional bandits ARE coming, whether they acre currently in icon range or not.
So you've given up on what you once loved, dog-fighting, and now participate in what killed what you love in an effort to be "effective". Lol, all sorts of quotes are applicable to you and Skyyrr today. First the "Kanye's a ******" quote, now the Batman "you either die a hero" quote.
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How can some of you say this shot is ok and part of the game........then the next thread over your talking about hordes on undefended bases and toolshedders......
They are on a different scale but the end result is the same....loss of combat simulation.
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How can some of you say this shot is ok and part of the game........then the next thread over your talking about hordes on undefended bases and toolshedders......
They are on a different scale but the end result is the same....loss of combat simulation.
Because they don't care about whats good for the game, or numbers, or noob retention. They only care about whatever part of the game they enjoy doing, regardless of its effects on the other parts of the game. Ideally for them, every time they approach a field, there would be no cons, ack down, and everyone dumb enough to spawn up on one runway.
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The whole point of the thread was for the OP to justify the shot he took.
Watch the film, it starts with the enemy in the up.forward view for a few seconds, then it is in the front view all the way up until the shot. This means the OP is diving. Check his indicator and you can see he is diving the whole time. He went for the HO, he never had any other intention to do anything else. In the 10+ second he has diving on the enemy and going for his HO he could have easily passed down the side passing parallel to the enemies flight path stay a few hundred feet wide and using a high-yo with a roll to come up over the top and drop on the enemy's 6.
He didn't, and this is the reputation he is building for himself. As he is called out more and more on his "favorite" move he tries to justify himself to the community with posts like this one.
What ever dude. Those of us who know better, know better. ;)
BINGO! As I said earlier...taking the cheap way out. A leopard never changes his spots. Hasn't changed a bit in all these years....and still only respected by himself and his groupies.
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How can some of you say this shot is ok and part of the game........then the next thread over your talking about hordes on undefended bases and toolshedders......
They are on a different scale but the end result is the same....loss of combat simulation.
Two player-driven machines met, one shot the other. This is what is supposed to happen in a combat game.
Dropping hangars all the time inherently prevents this from happening, which is why I am against it.
I said nothing about hordes. A horde represents more targets after all. Of course, if one is fighting a horde, one is well advised to take every single shot that may put down a bandit.
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Not so. Take away Latrobe's ability to BnZ/HO-pick/slash-shoot/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it,
A critical reason that Latrobe can win at fighting crowds is that his gunnery is spot on. I can maneuver in a similar manner to Latrobe does in some of his videos and still find nothing but frustration because I cannot kill as quickly. As always in multi-bandit situations, it is a matter of time.
I've made no requests for enforced guidelines.
And that is what makes the whole thing silly. People vote overwhelmingly to keep the MA a big free-for-all that is inherently random and unfair, and then object when people don't fight according to whatever guidelines they are embracing at this moment in order to have a pretext for complaint.
I've always been a big proponent of mob-justice;
Mob justice, oh THAT is known for being fair and objective. Actually, the "justice" is oftentimes dispensed very unevenly. Take Bozon for instance. If you fly more or less directly towards him, he will more or less brutally shred you in his Mossie. I've seen him do it. Not a hated man here on the BBS.
I can hit a non maneuvering target at D800. Hell, I can hit the offline drones lazily drifting to the left at D800. What I suck at is judging the continuously changing lead caused by maneuvering; this is also what most people suck at. But a HO creates a target that is for all practical purposes non maneuvering. Hell, you even need to adjust less for the vertical drop, since he's flying at your rounds. Unless they're able to aim and fire accurately beyond D800 consistently, a dead-on HO is the best way to get both guys in the tower as quick as possible.
So dogma holds that it is both easy to avoid the HO and easy to inflict MAD upon the HOer. Why complain about HOs instead of selecting either of the above options?
It amounts to 1/6th of their target profile. Hardly "massive"
The BEST timing on a rope actually consists of falling on them when they've run out of maneuvering speed, but BEFORE they've actually gone nose down. Then they have no chance to avoid. Your angulation guidelines would preclude many such shots. Also it would preclude certain shot opportunities on the scissors. I once had someone criticize me for a shot I took in a flat scissors, on the basis that he woulda/coulda/shoulda have pulled nose-on and shot as well. ??? How am I supposed to know the difference between a situation where the opponent doesn't have the turn rate available to point his nose at me, and a situation where he does but chooses to not do so? They look the same on the screen. If I see that someones nose is going to come around on me, I profile and jink. At best, not taking every shot you can get costs time, which as I've already pointed out, is often a fatal mistake in the MA.
So you've given up on what you once loved, dog-fighting, and now participate in what killed what you love in an effort to be "effective".
No, I still participate in ACM in the MA. Knowing it is a part of being effective, after all, and effectiveness (killing more than you die. Or at least as often) is more fun than the opposite, I find. It is just that I'm realistic about expectations. I'm don't expect to be able to fight it as a series of formal duels without interference, so I adjust accordingly. I acknowledge that if I allow myself to be anywhere in front of the nose of any plane, especially gajillion cannon birds, it is my fault if I get shot down, ESPECIALLY if I'm in something uber-maneuverable that can easily avoid. As a corollary, I don't rule out using any technique that may be effective or simply fun. Like the example I used earlier, if that spitfire wants to whip around and point his nose at me instead of evading, I will fire and laugh maniacally all the way back to the tower.
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Not sure I could make that shot but I'm not a very good shot to begin with!
I wouldnt call it a HO,infact I wish players would refrain from using that term and call it a John Wayne merge,you know where you come in guns a blazing!
I use the term acute frontal attack since it's an attack from the front at less than 90 degrees. Of an AFA if you need an acronym......
YMMV!
:salute
You are right mate, no one was calling it a HO, not even Nishi who was the guy who got shot.
This whole thread seems to be an attempt to drag Nishi into seeming to be whining about a HO, which, in fact, he was not.
Fulcrum foolishly brought up 'history between Nishi and Skyr in FA' which makes it obvious that somewhere private this situation is being discussed without Nishi's knowledge. As Shida said, this is all just a transparent Rule 4 work around.
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Fulcrum foolishly brought up 'history between Nishi and Skyr in FA' which makes it obvious that somewhere private this situation is being discussed without Nishi's knowledge. As Shida said, this is all just a transparent Rule 4 work around.
I'm aware that Skyyr has history with Nishi, as well as several other ex-FA pilots (e.g. Bruv), simply from information obtained from conversations I've had with him and Kruel over the past few months. Further, I'm not aware of any plot or conspiracy to call out Nishi...nor would I knowingly participate in one. Not only is it something that is not in my nature, but I also happen to like and respect Nishi.
I wonder why you would draw a conclusion like this given the limited amount of data available. Personal experience, or from drawing parallels with how your own squad operates?
Things that name you go "Hmmmmmm..." :headscratch:
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A critical reason that Latrobe can win at fighting crowds is that his gunnery is spot on. I can maneuver in a similar manner to Latrobe does in some of his videos and still find nothing but frustration because I cannot kill as quickly. As always in multi-bandit situations, it is a matter of time.
And that is what makes the whole thing silly. People vote overwhelmingly to keep the MA a big free-for-all that is inherently random and unfair, and then object when people don't fight according to whatever guidelines they are embracing at this moment in order to have a pretext for complaint.
Not to be rude, but Latrobe is virtually famous for his skill, especially in 109's. He's easily top 10 AH pilots overall. Again, not to be rude, but who the hell are you?
I'm sure you've had those moments where everything you do is golden. I've had them before; everyone who's been around a little bit probably has. My occasional bouts of savant-like skill doesn't make me anything more than average.
Mob justice, oh THAT is known for being fair and objective. Actually, the "justice" is oftentimes dispensed very unevenly. Take Bozon for instance. If you fly more or less directly towards him, he will more or less brutally shred you in his Mossie. I've seen him do it. Not a hated man here on the BBS.
He's also not posting these "neener neener, look at me, I'm not "quite" HO'ing, I'm beyond your criticism despite asking for your opinion!" threads. So 1) he's not being antagonistic. 2) he doesn't seem to have an inflated self-image. 3) he's also a damn fine stick in a difficult aircraft to be good in.
Were he to go around acting like Skyyrr in an La-7, I'm sure he'd be pretty widely disliked.
And besides, unequal justice is better than an utter lack of justice. May not be perfect, but it's also a lot more practical than punishable rules, and the best part, there's actually a chance of it happening.
If Skyyrr gets "unfairly" targeted... I'm kind of okay with it.
So dogma holds that it is both easy to avoid the HO and easy to inflict MAD upon the HOer. Why complain about HOs instead of selecting either of the above options?
#1 is a rather simplistic and narrow view, and ignores circumstance, which is not negligible.
#2 is not a good option because it almost always results in death and a wasted sortie (and even worse, my limited, irretrievable time).
The BEST timing on a rope actually consists of falling on them when they've run out of maneuvering speed, but BEFORE they've actually gone nose down. Then they have no chance to avoid. Your angulation guidelines would preclude many such shots.
I would disagree. Ideally you come down such that they are showing you their top/bottom at around D-600. This prevents people like you and Skyyrr and Bozon from wildly spraying fire as I pump lead into your hopefully out-fought carcass.
Also it would preclude certain shot opportunities on the scissors. I once had someone criticize me for a shot I took in a flat scissors, on the basis that he woulda/coulda/shoulda have pulled nose-on and shot as well. ??? How am I supposed to know the difference between a situation where the opponent doesn't have the turn rate available to point his nose at me, and a situation where he does but chooses to not do so? They look the same on the screen. If I see that someones nose is going to come around on me, I profile and jink. At best, not taking every shot you can get costs time, which as I've already pointed out, is often a fatal mistake in the MA.
I'd say you're scissors aren't working real great if they only got you a head-on.
Speaking of which, how is he reasonably supposed to avoid you? If it's like I'm picturing your two flight paths, it would come up rather abruptly, where there's not much room to maneuver.
Also your dilemma is why I try not to ho. Rather than assume everyone is going to Ho, I've decided it's irrelevant; I'm good enough I don't have to.
No, I still participate in ACM in the MA. Knowing it is a part of being effective, after all, and effectiveness (killing more than you die. Or at least as often) is more fun than the opposite, I find. It is just that I'm realistic about expectations. I'm don't expect to be able to fight it as a series of formal duels without interference, so I adjust accordingly. I acknowledge that if I allow myself to be anywhere in front of the nose of any plane, especially gajillion cannon birds, it is my fault if I get shot down, ESPECIALLY if I'm in something uber-maneuverable that can easily avoid. As a corollary, I don't rule out using any technique that may be effective or simply fun. Like the example I used earlier, if that spitfire wants to whip around and point his nose at me instead of evading, I will fire and laugh maniacally all the way back to the tower.
So you've moved from flying for fights to flying to have a good K/D :headscratch:? Sorry, I just can't get behind that. Anyone can have a good K/D if they always have multiple squadies with them, or fly with the horde, or just always run when they don't have a clear advantage. They don't necessarily have to kill a lot, or even be a particularly good pilot; they're simply relying on crutches to make up for a deficit in their own skill, rather than getting better.
There's a reason they don't use batting tees in MLB.
Besides that, my time is at a premium. Flying around not taking fights for fear of not having a good K/D is just illogical for me, too say nothing of suicide-inducingly boring.
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...nor would I knowingly participate in one.
but you are participating in this one, are you not?
I wonder why you would draw a conclusion like this given the limited amount of data available. Personal experience, or from drawing parallels with how your own squad operates?
We are far too disorganised to 'operate' in any shape or form. I thought that was why you quit.
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Actually, you complained it was a "h2h" shot. Which is ironic, because...
That doesn't even closely resemble the truth. Refer to your own screenshot and you will see a compliment, not a complaint. My assessment of your AoA only reinforces your quote of me below. The admitted sarcasm was motivated by the fact that you managed to kill a plane flying straight and level.... as anyone who views the film can see...... irrespective of the AoA.
...you weren't at the stick, yet you clearly saw enough of the fight to see the setup, the shot, and then the kill. Interesting... :rolleyes:
Click (http://i.imgur.com/Bchvi4l.png).
Apparently you struggled comprehending it the first time I wrote it so I will try to be a little clearer. My assessment of your AoA attributed to you in my sarcastic compliment..... came from a perspective of someone "not AFK, but obviously at that moment, NOT focused on flying his pixelated plane, but rather distracted while texting" In other words I was there, but I had my cell phone in my hand.... Not my joystick.
Once more.... that immediate AoA assessment only serves to underscore how distracted I was.
Now can we all just give westbound skyrr his due kudos for shooting down a straight and level eastbound plane in one pass? Bravo skyrr :rolleyes:
:salute Nishizawa
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The admitted sarcasm was motivated by the fact that you managed to kill a plane flying straight and level.... as anyone who views the film can see...... irrespective of the AoA. Apparently you struggled comprehending it the first time I wrote it so I will try to be a little clearer. My assessment of your AoA attributed to you in my sarcastic compliment..... came from a perspective of someone "not AFK, but obviously at that moment, NOT focused on flying his pixelated plane, but rather distracted while texting" Once more.... that immediate AoA assessment only serves to underscore how distracted I was.
So you made a sarcastic comment regarding the cause of your death when you weren't even focused on flying. Interesting, using sarcasm to cover up your choice to ignore an incoming threat and continue to text. However, when I replied it was a "deflection shot" (without sarcasm or ill-intent), you replied:
film with show otherwise
On one hand, you're saying that you weren't even flying and would have died regardless and that it was indeed a shot to your broadside, as you flew afk. Yet, reading the chat log, you clearly said the film would show it was something other than a deflection shot (which we've openly determined it was indeed a flanking deflection shot) and then claimed it was a h2h (which, also, has been determined not to be the case).
So which one is it?
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Not to be rude, but Latrobe is virtually famous for his skill, especially in 109's. He's easily top 10 AH pilots overall. Again, not to be rude, but who the hell are you?
He is famous for his skill, part of which includes gunnery. I've seen his films. With his gunnery skills his moves mean something. Without it, all would be for naught. As it often has been for me when many bandits were in the air.
If Skyyrr gets "unfairly" targeted... I'm kind of okay with it.
And this is a rather abominable outlook on justice. If there are set rules (rule of law) that are agreed upon, then one can objectively evaluate whether a person is innocent or guilty of violating them. If it is the nebulous horsedung that some people label the "rules" of the MA, then a hated person (or group) will always be held guilty of violating them, while the offenses of more favored individuals will be glossed over. This is more or less what is happening here, as far as I can tell.
I would disagree. Ideally you come down such that they are showing you their top/bottom at around D-600. This prevents people like you and Skyyrr and Bozon from wildly spraying fire as I pump lead into your hopefully out-fought carcass.
We will have to agree to disagree here. Waiting till you can see them go nose down may present them the opportunity to regain some maneuver potential and do some wild evasive. Snap it into a spin if nothing else. And there is not one chance in 50 of a guy who is hanging there out of airspeed hitting you when he fires anyway, so it's a worthy risk for a near certain target.
EDIT: Hitech himself has listed the kind of shots you get when roping as a reason that head-ons cannot be turned off, ala Air Warrior.
I'd say you're scissors aren't working real great if they only got you a head-on.
It wasn't a head-on, I was essentially shooting at his planform, from in front of the 3/9 line at close range. He did not point guns at me. His argument was that he COULD have pointed guns at me, if he had pulled harder. In flight, there is no way for me to know what he COULD potentially do, only that from what happened on my screen it appeared I had cut inside his turn. Good guy generally, we didn't have an issue, but I think his logic was a bit murky on that and many players use such similar murky logic.
Speaking of which, how is he reasonably supposed to avoid you? If it's like I'm picturing your two flight paths, it would come up rather abruptly, where there's not much room to maneuver.
When it looks like a guy is going to be able to get guns on me in a situation like this, I show them my wingtip to make a narrow target and do a jink. If they miss and don't react quickly, this may give me shot position on the next turn of the scissors. If they hit, I don't make the argument "I could have put my nose on you too!!!", even if in reality I could have.
Also your dilemma is why I try not to ho. Rather than assume everyone is going to Ho, I've decided it's irrelevant; I'm good enough I don't have to.
I assume everyone may HO. Therefore I rarely get hit by HOs, and never complain about them when my ACM skill fails to let me avoid the HO.
So you've moved from flying for fights to flying to have a good K/D :headscratch:?
No, I do not fly for k/d, or score at all, as is made obvious by looking at my score. :) Fulfilling the parameters of max k/d would be un-fun, albeit I would argue it still take skill to beat the k/d ratios of those who specialize in it. I fly for the satisfaction of devising the best possible tactic to achieve the best outcome I can attain in whatever situation I find myself in. I simply see no greater value in me out-turning a guy because I brought an Fm2 than him out-Hoing my Fm2 because he brought a 190A8, if he can make me fall for it. There are escapes I have made from very bad situations that I find more satisfying than some kills. I do NOT handicap myself by having unrealistic expectations of how "fair" a fight I will get, nor do I waste my emotional energy being angry at what are, after all, my fellow fighter pilots for fighting "unfairly" in an arena which plainly has no rules.
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but you are participating in this one, are you not?
I do not see it as an attempt to discredit or embarrass Nishi. If I did, I wouldn't participate. If you note, all I did was express my opinion concerning HOs in the MA.
Note that I did not do any of the following:
- call anyone a name (e.g. "tard", "idiot", et al).
- attempt to describe another pilot's flying as lacking <courage / heart / honor / style>
- accuse a individual of using a serious illness of themselves or a family member as an excuse for some perceived offense
- attempt to imply someone is a pervert driving in a "candy van" because I don't agree with their opinion and/or dislike them personally
- accuse someone of participating in a conspiracy to discredit another individual
We are far too disorganised to 'operate' in any shape or form. I thought that was why you quit.
Actually I left for a number of reasons.....but that wasn't one of them. I agree AoM, from a purely operational perspective, is a bit loose. But so are many other squads.
That said, I would not characterize AoM as disorganized when it comes to PR. The AoM PR modus operandi are established and well known.
Enjoy your day. :salute
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I remember :old: back in the day that dueling league had a rule of 'cold merge.' After that, fights on. In a furball that would be a HA. On the merge, HO.
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You are right mate, no one was calling it a HO, not even Nishi who was the guy who got shot.
This whole thread seems to be an attempt to drag Nishi into seeming to be whining about a HO, which, in fact, he was not.
Fulcrum foolishly brought up 'history between Nishi and Skyr in FA' which makes it obvious that somewhere private this situation is being discussed without Nishi's knowledge. As Shida said, this is all just a transparent Rule 4 work around.
Batty, the only reason I posted was to say that I dislike the term HO! If HTC didnt want to allow frontal shots they could do as was done in AW and thats to reduce the effectiveness of shots from a frontal aspect.
In AW it was a waste to fire face to face as most of the ammo didnt count as hits.
I watched the film,I saw a KI84 that was on auto pilot being attacked from the front,big deal,the motives for posting such a film I cant comment on as I have no imformation on the reason.
I've read a couple posts by people who seem to bypass the PNG and make wild claims and I'm more offended by those than any silly grudge match.
It appears to me that players need to get over themselves and shelve the ego and just have fun playing this great game Dale and group has developed for us! We have seemed to lost the fact that AH is supposed to be fun,a place to make friend and just get away from all those real problems in the real world! I'm likely going to get this thread locked because of some rule or another but frankly I dont care,and I dont like that aboput myself ATM,I've always cared and thats the reason I try to do my best to help players get better. As a player gets better they have more fun,atleast IMHO and maybe they will stick around and make it fun for all the others. However day in and day out I see nothing but whining and complaining,the sky is fall chicken little stuff and I've grown tired of it.
Sure I could just stop reading the forums but not really,part of the duties of a trainer is to respond to players request for help and or training so I cant just stop read the BBS entirely.
I could say I can outfly 90% of the player base,etc.etc. but I never do because my shooting always will let me down,therefore I take any and every shot I get I could care less what aspect it's from or score or KD or any other nonsense,to me so long as it's fun I win!
I better stop before I say some things I will regret!!! :devil
:salute
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What's going on in here? :bolt:
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Whew! :bhead you really are struggling grasping this aren't you?
Interesting, using sarcasm to cover up your choice to ignore an incoming threat and continue to text.
Wrong..... Again. The first I was aware of you was when I heard the shots coming from my front and then saw and heard you zoom past. Sadly, I didn't have time to utilize my protractor, so my AoA assessment and the subsequent attributing compliment was a snap judgement at best.
I do know that you shot at and hit a straight and level eastbound plane while headed westbound.... So my sarcastic compliment was appropriate.
On one hand, you're saying that you weren't even flying and would have died regardless and that it was indeed a shot to your broadside, as you flew afk. Yet, reading the chat log, you clearly said the film would show it was something other than a deflection shot (which we've openly determined it was indeed a flanking deflection shot) and then claimed it was a h2h (which, also, has been determined not to be the case).
So which one is it?
I'll not be endorsing your premise there, no more than I have this entire thread's "HO whine" characterization. It was sarcastically complimenting you on "really impressive h2h skillz" for shooting down basically an unpiloted plane based on a snap judgement from one who only caught the tail end of what happened. If the masses determine my snap AoA assessment was a bad call.... I can live with that.
Just as you will have to live with the carefully cultivated reputation of someone who 9 times out of 10 proudly demonstrates his h2h skillz but yet will jump at the opportunity to start a thread with the covert intent of a rule#4 work around, while masquerading as a self-righteous "HO or not a HO?" Straw man argument.
Utterly laughable in its transparency
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"HO or not a HO?" Straw man argument.
You said "h2h" - no one else implied anything else until that point - and then made the claim that "film will show otherwise." You were wrong. Period. No amount of failed sarcasm or projection will change that.
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You said "h2h" - no one else implied anything else until that point - and then made the claim that "film will show otherwise." You were wrong. Period. No amount of failed sarcasm or projection will change that.
Your failed projection of a "HO whine" characterization is where you were wrong. As I said, I can live with my snap assessment being deemed a bad call given the circumstances.
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Your failed projection of a "HO whine" characterization is where you were wrong. As I said, I can live my snap assessment being deemed a bad call given the circumstances.
You claimed the film would show differently - it, in fact, did not.
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You claimed the film would show differently - it, in fact, did not.
yeah, I read it when you said it in your previous post. And responded to it. Again.
Good day
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I do not see it as an attempt to discredit or embarrass Nishi. If I did, I wouldn't participate. If you note, all I did was express my opinion concerning HOs in the MA.
Note that I did not do any of the following:
- call anyone a name (e.g. "tard", "idiot", et al).
- attempt to describe another pilot's flying as lacking <courage / heart / honor / style>
- accuse a individual of using a serious illness of themselves or a family member as an excuse for some perceived offense
- attempt to imply someone is a pervert driving in a "candy van" because I don't agree with their opinion and/or dislike them personally
- accuse someone of participating in a conspiracy to discredit another individual
So tell me then, in your own words, what is the purpose of this thread?
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Skyrr, if you hadn't typed today that you were proud of HOing, I would have let you have it in this thread... I don't care to debate the definition of HO with you or anyone else... to me, the ki84 shot was a HO... even though he didnt "nose to shoot" with you, right after that film, you attempted to HO me, I rolled out of it and caught a MG in the wing from you... just an hour or so ago I rolled out of a HO from you but lost a flap in the process... I don't care if you HO or not, but I do not like people who fly straight at someone and fire, and end up hitting them at the "high deflection" point and claim they weren't HOing... its lame and dishonest... if you take head on shots, then embrace it... but to constantly try and act like others don't know what a frickin HO is only makes you look foolish... :aok
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So tell me then, in your own words, what is the purpose of this thread?
In my own words, the purpose of this thread is here made by others, to foolishly take up Skuzzy & HTC's time moderating this fiasco, when they could have been using their limited time more wisely on more important projects and parts of the game that truly needs their undivided attention!
Heya Skyrock,
I watched that video that skyyr posted........ I could plainly see a ki84plane ( player ) who was either busy in the real world or afk, and was flying straight ( perhaps on autopilot ? )
in which skyyr made a slight lead turn and took a right front quarter shot at the ki84 cowling................ as skyyr looked back , you see the ki84 eventually make an irratic maneuver as if they had just sit back down at their computer ( or rapidly grabbed their controller and yanked it to evade )
That is what I observed from the film...... Hell, I have been on both ends of that same type of engagement either being the one attacking a plane that is AFK( pilotless ) or being the one with the plane on autopilot and watching my plane being tore up by bullets as I am trying to sit back down at the PC.......... ROFL...
As for whatever grudge any of you in this thread might have had with someone else in some other game that doesn't exist anymore...... all of you should forget about the past! and if it doesn't involve you directly, you should not be dragging other players names into it, for it is no ones place except the certain individuals involved......
GTFU and go shoot some red icon planes in the Aces High skies!
<S>
TC
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Resectfully to those engaged I think the discussion of whether the shot was a HO or not is a convenient diversion. That's the static within which the intended message is being conveyed. I should imagine the OP must be revelling in his own conceit and self-confirming arrogance to see you all go at that irreconcilable topic while he does his actual thing completely free from persecution of the forum rules. Thinks he's smarter than y'all, that boy.
Nishizwa I would suggest to you sir that you don't have to defend yourself in this thread. Explaining you were texting was more than enough to clarify your side of the story. I had already assumed something like that. You have nothing to gain in responding only things to lose.
To those discussing the morality of certain activities in Aces High please be aware that although to you AH might be a game of skill, an activity of self-development, an entertaining diversion or a competitive activity with other people what-have-you, to some it is a completely different entity altogether. So different you will probably struggle to imagine it, if you are remotely well-balanced. Appeals to reason, sportsmanship, community or anything else is absolutely a waste of your time. Look at the selective responsiveness from the OP if you want a tiny insight into that. A friend of mine said it best recently: "Some bleeding fruitloops in this game".
Do your thing, enjoy yourselves, fly what you want and how you want. Don't equate getting shot down with any personal implication and don't allow others to assert that either. AH like the real world is chaotic and full of random chance. Move forward not back. Discuss things lightly and don't expect to convert people with dissimilar ideologies. Life's short and there are better ways to spend your time. In my humble opinion.
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I'm just curious to hear fulcrum's explanation of the purpose of this thread. But of course he won't give one because the only available excuse is 'to gauge if it was a ho or not' and it is patently obvious that the OP already knew the answer before posting. We need a thread like this every now and then to stop things getting boring. Most of us are capable of conducting a discussion like this without causing any trouble for HTC. All fun and games.
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I'm just curious to hear fulcrum's explanation of the purpose of this thread. But of course he won't give one because the only available excuse is 'to gauge if it was a ho or not' and it is patently obvious that the OP already knew the answer before posting. We need a thread like this every now and then to stop things getting boring. Most of us are capable of conducting a discussion like this without causing any trouble for HTC. All fun and games.
Actually, bat, I do think it was posted to gage if the shot was a Ho. new guys to AH sometimes have trouble distinguishing what a Ho is exactly... Since the definition changes. I've been playing 10 years now and I still admit I get confused. Is it a dead on nose shot? Anything before the 3/9 line. What about the belly... Is it OK to shoot if the other guy pulls up and away?
So many rules and taboo codes. I prefer to boil it down to something simple: if you point your nose at me, I will pull the trigger unless you are in a :ahand temp/mossie/110/hurricane/tyhoon. If you fly across my nose... I will pull the trigger if I have the shot. Life is simple that way. :aok :lol
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Actually, bat, I do think it was posted to gage if the shot was a Ho. new guys to AH sometimes have trouble distinguishing what a Ho is exactly... Since the definition changes. I've been playing 10 years now and I still admit I get confused. Is it a dead on nose shot? Anything before the 3/9 line. What about the belly... Is it OK to shoot if the other guy pulls up and away?
So many rules and taboo codes. I prefer to boil it down to something simple: if you point your nose at me, I will pull the trigger unless you are in a :ahand temp/mossie/110/hurricane/tyhoon. If you fly across my nose... I will pull the trigger if I have the shot. Life is simple that way. :aok :lol
Shida got it right. There was absolutely no question as to whethere it was a ho. THIS WHOLE THREAD is a TROLL, and the OP knows it. What and undeserved ego.
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Well I'd really prefer to be wrong. In fact if someone can demonstrate I am then I can go back to my self-delusional state of imagining people can co-exist peacefully despite their differences. Zack will show up in a minute and call me a hippy no doubt.
Incidentally BnZ I don't really know the full detail of what you eluded to earlier about an proposed set of guidelines because I've been rather busy lately. I think you were perhaps simply trying to make a point, but perhaps this discussion from a few months back will interest you. Certainly pertinent to this thread:-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361074.0.html
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don't expect to convert people with dissimilar ideologies.
Well written, the problem is that people complain about different ideologies, be it the HO, the 'pick', the vulch. Not only that, but people complain about it when they lose, but enjoy it when they win. We may not be 'sportsman' like, but we Damned sure aren't hypocrites.
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Well written, the problem is that people complain about different ideologies, be it the HO, the 'pick', the vulch. Not only that, but people complain about it when they lose, but enjoy it when they win. We may not be 'sportsman' like, but we Damned sure aren't hypocrites.
That isn't the ideology I was referring to Kruel. I don't think there was any suggestion of hypocrisy, unless you were implying it in others? I don't know, some of the Damned seem to have brought grudges with them to AH. Not necessary really. Hence my concern that this might in fact be the primary activity. If that's the 'game' then fine, fued away, but at least don't be deceiptful about it nor expect everyone to agree to accepting that.
:salute
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That isn't the ideology I was referring to Kruel. I don't think there was any suggestion of hypocrisy, unless you were implying it in others? I don't know, some of the Damned seem to have brought grudges with them to AH. Not necessary really. Hence my concern that this might in fact be the primary activity. If that's the 'game' then fine, fued away, but at least don't be deceiptful about it nor expect everyone to agree to accepting that.
:salute
But therein lies the problem. You see, we have absolutely zero interest or concern of converting people to our views or idealogy. Truly, if the community as a whole disowns front-quarter shots, then that simply allows us to continue with them completely safe and unopposed on the merge - that's win/win for us right there. We actually prefer others to keep their ideology - it's one of the weaknesses we exploit in the MA and in competitions.
Ironically, what you perceive as a statement of us trying to impose our views on others is actually nothing more than us highlighting others' attempts to force their views on us (not that this thread is about that). We truly don't care how much people hate our tactics, but we (or at least I) get a decent amount of entertainment watching people go into seizures as they vehemently try to explain away and decry our choice in tactics. In this thread alone, 20+ paragraphs were written, arguing about how shooting someone in the face is bad (even when it's clearly obvious they can't or won't return the same). Even the sarcastic comment of "nice h2h skills" belies disdain for our tactics - it's yet another attempt to communicate an "ours vs theirs" difference in ideology.
We've also brought no grudges with us. On the contrary, if you re-read the posts, most all of the "grudges" that have come up are actually AH players who we've run back into, decrying about how dishonorable we are in AH and bandwagoning about how our tactics were just as "bad" in FA as in here. Heck, just read Copprhed's - a perfect example poster child - last several posts in this thread alone (or go back and read his replies in other threads) - they continually reference how we're no different than we were in FA. And yet again, therein lies the irony. You'd think that they would have figured out that our tactics work, with a nearly 250 KOTS wins and better than a 10:1 competition win/loss ratio in FA. I guess people don't really get over losses in video games, even when they were nearly half a decade ago. ;)
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Ironically, what you perceive as a statement of us trying to impose our views on others is actually nothing more than us highlighting others' attempts to force their views on us (not that this thread is about that). We truly don't care how much people hate our tactics, but we (or at least I) get a decent amount of entertainment watching people go into seizures as they vehemently try to explain away and decry our choice in tactics. In this thread alone, 20+ paragraphs were written, arguing about how shooting someone in the face is bad (even when it's clearly obvious they can't or won't return the same). Even the sarcastic comment of "nice h2h skills" belies disdain for our tactics - it's yet another attempt to communicate an "ours vs theirs" difference in ideology.
I don't perceive you trying to convert anybody. As I mentioned to Kruel that's not the ideology I'm talking about. It isn't really closely coupled with your tactics, flying style or the type of shots you choose to take (an influence undoubtedly). You already know my opinion on HOes for instance from the other thread on which you commented.
We've also brought no grudges with us. On the contrary, if you re-read the posts, most all of the "grudges" that have come up are actually AH players who we've run back into, decrying about how dishonorable we are in AH and bandwagoning about how our tactics were just as "bad" in FA as in here. Heck, just read Copprhed's last several posts in this thread alone - all of them reference how we're no different than we were in FA. And yet again, therein lies the irony. You'd think that they would have figured out that our tactics work, with a nearly 250 KOTS wins and roughly a ~13:1 competition win/loss ratio in FA. I guess people don't really get over losses in video games, even when they were nearly half a decade ago. ;)
Again, tactics are irrelevant. You've been here half a year is it? And you're already have more controversy surrounding you than some of the trouble makers who've been here over a decade. I have to ask if you are cultivating this deliberately? These grudges that you say you didn't start, you sure are keeping them going by posting selected clips on YouTube running just long enough to show the player's names.
Not everyone is concerned with wins or losses. Your activities seem to suggest you find them very very meaningful. It is possible you aren't aware of how your activities are perceived externally. <Shrug>
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
me and skyyr had the longest AH main arena fight in the history of AH....yesterday
only reason it lasted is my aim sux.....
I take back my comment about being a great HOer he is actually quite bad at it......he was very easy to avoid...if he were fighting anyone with a hit % over 5 he would have died within the first 2 merges....I would say "turns" but he went so far away they were merges ..over and over and over and over......
I watched the fight but even I got bored and shut it off after 10 minutes of him Hoing with NO ACM at all.....well except the very first of the engagement he did turn into me really really fast.....then it was running until I turned No matter How long it was or how much more ALT he had gained....
him Hoing and completely missing.....me hitting him multitudes of time but never being able to quite get the kill....
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I do have the film for anyone who "doubts" me....or anyone who wants a course in how to avoid the HO...
or anyone really interested in the most boring fight in the History of AH :rofl
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Resectfully to those engaged I think the discussion of whether the shot was a HO or not is a convenient diversion. That's the static within which the intended message is being conveyed. I should imagine the OP must be revelling in his own conceit and self-confirming arrogance to see you all go at that irreconcilable topic while he does his actual thing completely free from persecution of the forum rules. Thinks he's smarter than y'all, that boy.
Nishizwa I would suggest to you sir that you don't have to defend yourself in this thread. Explaining you were texting was more than enough to clarify your side of the story. I had already assumed something like that. You have nothing to gain in responding only things to lose.
QFT
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I tried to engage Skyyr with kappa (LA-7), Pepprr (a Spit 9), Harvey (K4), and Zapper (C2) right behind him at 1k out right next to our base- I left that part out (tee hee). Since he was running from 5 of us, he gave me his six, so I'll claim he was running from me and me alone! He climbed and extended to where we could fight alone, which took about 6 minutes. When we did fight, I barely managed to nick him, though he roped me repeatedly. I conveniently left out that Harvey circled the fight, coming into visual range, in his 109K4, forcing Skyyr to extend again to get away from him as I tried to get him to commit to a turnfight. I'll just claim Skyyr was "running" from me and only me.
Oh yeah, when we did fight, I ran out of ammo and then ran home after Skyyr hit me on the last rope and briefly attempted to chase me down.
:lol
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:lol
Q.E.D.
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We've also brought no grudges with us. On the contrary, if you re-read the posts, most all of the "grudges" that have come up are actually AH players who we've run back into, decrying about how dishonorable we are in AH and bandwagoning about how our tactics were just as "bad" in FA as in here. Heck, just read Copprhed's - a perfect example poster child - last several posts in this thread alone (or go back and read his replies in other threads) - they continually reference how we're no different than we were in FA. And yet again, therein lies the irony. You'd think that they would have figured out that our tactics work, with a nearly 250 KOTS wins and better than a 10:1 competition win/loss ratio in FA. I guess people don't really get over losses in video games, even when they were nearly half a decade ago. ;)
Your tactics "work", if score queening is your only goal. many of the players here aren't about score, per se, but about the FIGHT. You can check my score and ranking and see that they're average at best. The thing about it is, while I'm out there being average, I'm talking with people, finding great fights, whether in planes, bombers or gv's and having fun. If you find fun in taking advantage of people being chivalrous in game, it speaks volumes to what you're about in RL. What you do anonymously in a game is what lurks underneath the persona that you want people to see. I don't particularly want to get rule 4ed, but as I've said before, when ARS or USMC were in the fights you didn't win KOTS. Simon and crew did or nishi's squad did. I was a part of some of them. The Damned has a checkered past in FA, having participated is some dubious practices. You self aggrandizement is rather narcissistic, IMHO. Sorry Skuzzy, but he mentioned me by name..........
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzz...wha? Is it over yet, ma? Can we go home now? :D
Great video you shared this morning, Skyyr. The whine from one of your victims puts the truth to the following:
Well written, the problem is that people complain about different ideologies, be it the HO, the 'pick', the vulch. Not only that, but people complain about it when they lose, but enjoy it when they win.
<snip>
Makes me want to up a fighter tonight and have some fun! :aok
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Your tactics "work", if score queening is your only goal. many of the players here aren't about score, per se, but about the FIGHT. You can check my score and ranking and see that they're average at best. The thing about it is, while I'm out there being average, I'm talking with people, finding great fights, whether in planes, bombers or gv's and having fun. If you find fun in taking advantage of people being chivalrous in game, it speaks volumes to what you're about in RL. What you do anonymously in a game is what lurks underneath the persona that you want people to see. I don't particularly want to get rule 4ed, but as I've said before, when ARS or USMC were in the fights you didn't win KOTS. Simon and crew did or nishi's squad did. I was a part of some of them. The Damned has a checkered past in FA, having participated is some dubious practices. You self aggrandizement is rather narcissistic, IMHO. Sorry Skuzzy, but he mentioned me by name..........
No worries - and my intent wasn't to call you out, but rather emphasize a point. No harm taken from your post, either.
Your post is a perfect example - you think this is a "persona" or something of sorts; that we somehow don't have fun, etc. What you fail to realize is that, both here and in FA, we played for one reason: teamwork and winning. This is an air combat game. Having friends, "having a blast," "talking with people," "being chivalrous," etc. - those are not the primary function of the game; those are your preferences (and, obviously, the preferences of a good number of people). That said, they are personal preferences and nothing more. We enjoy those things as well, but they are not our primary reason for playing and therefore we do not make our decisions based on those preferences. We, quite literally, have always made our decisions based on flying as an effective team.
Trying to tie some sort of moral superiority to yourself because we don't play by your rules isn't a flaw with me or with us, rather it's a serious fundamental error on your part, assuming that everyone should adapt and play by your rules. If you think we're here to gain respect or that we care about your priorities and preferences, you're gravely mistaken. That was our philosophy in FA and it's the same here. And it works. Heck, you should know - we destroyed AU repeatedly in KOTS (but you knew that already).
Also - we had less than 20 losses over 13 years. Again: less than 20. You seem to keep harping on a single point in time when two squads beat us, while conveniently ignoring that we actually beat them tens of times both previously and after. Just sayin'... ;)
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Your tactics "work", if score queening is your only goal. many of the players here aren't about score, per se, but about the FIGHT. You can check my score and ranking and see that they're average at best. The thing about it is, while I'm out there being average, I'm talking with people, finding great fights, whether in planes, bombers or gv's and having fun. If you find fun in taking advantage of people being chivalrous in game, it speaks volumes to what you're about in RL. What you do anonymously in a game is what lurks underneath the persona that you want people to see. I don't particularly want to get rule 4ed, but as I've said before, when ARS or USMC were in the fights you didn't win KOTS. Simon and crew did or nishi's squad did. I was a part of some of them. The Damned has a checkered past in FA, having participated is some dubious practices. You self aggrandizement is rather narcissistic, IMHO. Sorry Skuzzy, but he mentioned me by name..........
Sorry, USMC nor ARS beat the Damned more than 5-6 Times, out of 200+ matches. Doesn't matter how you say it, nobody won more KOTS matches than the Damned, nobody. Did they lose sometimes? Yes, my hider squadron won KOTS (NxN), once, doesn't mean we were better than the Damned rofl.
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No worries - and my intent wasn't to call you out, but rather emphasize a point. No harm taken from your post, either.
This is an air combat game. Having friends, "having a blast," "talking with people," "being chivalrous," etc.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/f54b/wwpzpis6pqg491c6g.jpg)
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(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/f54b/wwpzpis6pqg491c6g.jpg)
Touche, sir. Touche... :P
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Skyrr, you obviously missed my "point". How you play the game is how you live your life. You, as evidenced by your play, don't see any relevance in honor, or working to get a kill.. The majority in AH2 do. The majority in the world do. You have put yourself out for the world to examine, with your troll post. I'll leave the rest of the statement for your imagination.
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Skyrr, you obviously missed my "point". How you play the game is how you live your life. You, as evidenced by your play, don't see any relevance in honor, or working to get a kill.. The majority in AH2 do. The majority in the world do. You have put yourself out for the world to examine, with your troll post. I'll leave the rest of the statement for your imagination.
Actually, I dare say that the majority of the world would mock someone for trying to explain the concept of honor in a video game based on numbers and winning, especially when the entire point of the game is determined based on score. Logically, that leaves you in the minority. But, then again, that's just logic.
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Heya Skyrock,
I watched that video that skyyr posted........ I could plainly see a ki84plane ( player ) who was either busy in the real world or afk, and was flying straight ( perhaps on autopilot ? )
in which skyyr made a slight lead turn and took a right front quarter shot at the ki84 cowling................ as skyyr looked back , you see the ki84 eventually make an irratic maneuver as if they had just sit back down at their computer ( or rapidly grabbed their controller and yanked it to evade )
That is what I observed from the film...... Hell, I have been on both ends of that same type of engagement either being the one attacking a plane that is AFK( pilotless ) or being the one with the plane on autopilot and watching my plane being tore up by bullets as I am trying to sit back down at the PC.......... ROFL...
<S>
TC
I was just making the point of Skyrr constantly claiming "it's" not a HO, when he HO's at me about everytime I run in to him... of course while I am rolling out of his guns he sometimes gets a hit or two... and I'm sure if he shot me down that way he would claim "high deflection".. which would be completely dishonest.. that was my point... I don't care if he HO's every body in AH everytime.. just leave the dishonest sanctimonious crap at the door.. :aok
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I was just making the point of Skyrr constantly claiming "it's" not a HO, when he HO's at me about everytime I run in to him... of course while I am rolling out of his guns he sometimes gets a hit or two... and I'm sure if he shot me down that way he would claim "high deflection".. which would be completely dishonest.. that was my point... I don't care if he HO's every body in AH everytime.. just leave the dishonest sanctimonious crap at the door.. :aok
You seem to imply that all forward shots are hot passes/head-ons/h2h/whatever - they, in fact, are not; and there is a reason there is different terminology.
You may dislike front-quarter shots - that's fine, simply don't call it a HO if you didn't have a guns solution when I pulled the trigger and I think we'll all get along just fine.
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...a video game based on numbers and winning, especially when the entire point of the game is determined based on score.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
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(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
:rofl
there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance.
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Incidentally BnZ I don't really know the full detail of what you eluded to earlier about an proposed set of guidelines because I've been rather busy lately. I think you were perhaps simply trying to make a point, but perhaps this discussion from a few months back will interest you. Certainly pertinent to this thread:-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361074.0.html
I refer to this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html), in which I propose a rule code to make the MA more the way many players SAY they want it to be, with enough enforcement teeth for these rules to actually MEAN something. Not a single player voted aye on it. So I'm a little vexed that anyone complains about HOs in the MA when *not a single player* AFAIK is willing to embrace an actual enforced rule against HOing in the MA.
It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.
Probably everyone opining on "cheap" tactics on this thread in fact, has done some of these things, and will do them again in the future
If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being? :rofl To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.
So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film. OR, if you find these rules and their logical implications unacceptable, if you continue to endorse the MA being as it is through inaction if nothing else, then please do shut off the flow of mostly hypocritical horsedung about supposed fairness and honor or lack thereof, of both tactics and individuals. In particular, no individual can be considered dishonored for violating a rule they have not agreed to follow and which in reality is only an opinion/preference of some other vocal individual.
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:rofl
there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance.
Indeed, I discovered this when I tried to inform you that two aircraft at the same speed and G load have exactly the same rate and radius of turn, and you "laughed" at me without so much as bothering to look it up. I continue to learn it every time you respond to a thought with a feeling. There is no formal Latin term for the fallacy of "argument via intuition", but I think you may be single-handedly creating the need for one.
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It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.
That's not the ideology to which I was,... ah nevermind :lol
If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being? :rofl To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.
That's just rhetoric so people can satisfy immediate and pressing needs. Indeed you hear 'don't run' a lot but seldom 'stop turning!'. I think overall we can agree that BnZ is safer then TnB? That is reflected even in the progression of aircraft design & tactics I think. Hence it maybe being an obvious choice for those to whom score and winning is important. Cough.
So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film.
Well that's a bit silly I think. I actually like the anarchic jungle-like state of the MA / DA (well the furball lake). I myself choose to try and be sportsmanlike, not to interrupt a 1 on 1, not to fire into the front quarter and to try to fight even better turners to the bitter end but I don't expect to convince others to share my values.
You are a very good stick by the way. I know you and respect your flying :salute
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(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
I'll concede otherwise when you show me an MA map that was won based on "most honorable flying by X team," or a KOTH winner that was selected because they demonstrated the "best example of stylish flying yet!"
Like it or not, every mechanic of this game is either based on or measured by score and objectives. The pretense of honor and "a good all around time" taking precedence over these items is nothing more than a fantasy. Those who would argue otherwise are either delusional or simply do not care about playing the game as it was intended to be played. That is the truth of the matter, regardless of the general consensus. Arguing otherwise is akin to claiming the point of investing is not to end up with the most money, but rather to enjoy the thrill and excitement of making investments in and of themselves.
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:rofl
there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance... . as I continue to illustrate with every post.
Fixed! :aok
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(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Otp3p_7159.jpg)
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(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Otp3p_7159.jpg)
No no.. I think this thread has made a new topic... like.. How can a person that has played this game for 10years be so bad?
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On page 6 there was something I picked up on. Skyyr mentioned that he wasn't bringing any grudges with him. Considering the omission that he has a long term plan to remove bruv from his high horse I call BS. As always with Skyyr the truth differs from the tripe falling out of his mouth.
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You seem to imply that all forward shots are hot passes/head-ons/h2h/whatever - they, in fact, are not; and there is a reason there is different terminology.
You may dislike front-quarter shots - that's fine, simply don't call it a HO if you didn't have a guns solution when I pulled the trigger and I think we'll all get along just fine.
Wow... and you proved my point with not only your foot in your mouth, but your whole damn leg... there has not been one time you went for your "front-quarter shot" that I couldn't have shot you right in the face had I chose to do so.. and that is where you come off foolish... treating everyone else like they don't know what HO's are... and for the record, I don't necessarily dislike front quarter shots/HOs... I just find them boring... and in your case, a sign that your air combat gaming skills are lacking... you know, your last resort "I've run out of enough E to run or attempt another rope" HO's.... :aok
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Wow... and you proved my point with not only your foot in your mouth, but your whole damn leg... there has not been one time you went for your "front-quarter shot" that I couldn't have shot you right in the face had I chose to do so
Of course you'll claim that; it'd negate your whole argument if you didn't. However, you (and yours) all make the undeniably obvious lead-turn/angles maneuver when you approach a head-on. It's so blatantly obvious where you're going and what you're going to do that it simply presents a missed shot opportunity if not taken. So claim that you "could" have shot me if you wanted to, the fact is that you haven't and therefore, without proof that you actually maintained a guns-solution without pulling the trigger, it's nothing more than your opinion vs mine.
Also, it's fairly contradictory to claim that someone's skills are lacking while in the same breath criticizing them for killing/shooting someone on the first pass. I mean, if your "air combat skills" are so superior, why then does it matter what I do? Oh, wait - it shows a lack of skill, even though you're the who's damaged and/or dead. Ah, I see - another one of the "it's not about the win" arguments...
You do realize that front-quarter passes are now part of current USAF fighter doctrine, right? There's a reason why merges are taught to have near-zero deflection and not the lead-turn merge that you seem so fond of. ;)
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(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Otp3p_7159.jpg)
:rofl
Sorry...... :lol..couldn't help myself!
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No no.. I think this thread has made a new topic... like.. How can a person that has played this game for 10years be so bad?
Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?
Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad. :rofl
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My take on this so far is that everyone arguing with Skyyrr and Fulcrum are the real losers.
Skyyrr obviously is out to troll, and Fulcrum would clearly back I him up if he were involved with Watergate.
I'm out. Fly how you like, say what you want, argue as you please; clearly nobody is changing anyone else's mind.
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I refer to this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html), in which I propose a rule code to make the MA more the way many players SAY they want it to be, with enough enforcement teeth for these rules to actually MEAN something. Not a single player voted aye on it. So I'm a little vexed that anyone complains about HOs in the MA when *not a single player* AFAIK is willing to embrace an actual enforced rule against HOing in the MA.
It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.
Probably everyone opining on "cheap" tactics on this thread in fact, has done some of these things, and will do them again in the future
If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being? :rofl To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.
So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film. OR, if you find these rules and their logical implications unacceptable, if you continue to endorse the MA being as it is through inaction if nothing else, then please do shut off the flow of mostly hypocritical horsedung about supposed fairness and honor or lack thereof, of both tactics and individuals. In particular, no individual can be considered dishonored for violating a rule they have not agreed to follow and which in reality is only an opinion/preference of some other vocal individual.
Why do you even bring up that thread? It was one of the poorest attempts at a troll ever.
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Skyyrr obviously is out to troll, and Fulcrum would clearly back I him up if he were involved with Watergate.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4Q7anKqYuNM/UAnpAX1o2fI/AAAAAAAAAck/N5psVN8XFqg/s280/nixon.JPG)
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Of course you'll claim that; it'd negate your whole argument if you didn't. However, you (and yours) all make the undeniably obvious lead-turn/angles maneuver when you approach a head-on. It's so blatantly obvious where you're going and what you're going to do that it simply presents a missed shot opportunity if not taken. So claim that you "could" have shot me if you wanted to, the fact is that you haven't and therefore, without proof that you actually maintained a guns-solution without pulling the trigger, it's nothing more than your opinion vs mine.
:rofl well, again, you are re-acting just as I said you would... foolishly...
you see, I don't have to resort to posting videos of me picking people, or come on here and blather on about how I know more acm than others to somehow try to convince people I know how to fight... people know I can "fight" in game, because I do... people know me because of my acm, not because I talk about it... :aok
Also, it's fairly contradictory to claim that someone's skills are lacking while in the same breath criticizing them for killing/shooting someone on the first pass. I mean, if your "air combat skills" are so superior, why then does it matter what I do? Oh, wait - it shows a lack of skill, even though you're the who's damaged and/or dead. Ah, I see - another one of the "it's not about the win" arguments...
and apparently the only way you can muster any damage on me is to blow by at 550 guns blazing praying to allah that something hits and then running like hell back to ack? :aok
You do realize that front-quarter passes are now part of current USAF fighter doctrine, right? There's a reason why merges are taught to have near-zero deflection and not the lead-turn merge that you seem so fond of. ;)
again, acting as if no one but you knows anything about air combat tactics... next time I talk with Robert... yes Robert Shaw, I'll tell him to look you up, maybe you can enlighten him with some of your ACM prowess.. :aok
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Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?
Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad. :rofl
I'll give you a little advice bud... folks in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... :aok
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:rofl well, again, you are re-acting just as I said you would... foolishly...
Ah, go for the ad-hominem attack instead of addressing the actual core issue. Typical.
and apparently the only way you can muster any damage on me is to blow by at 550 guns blazing praying to allah that something hits and then running like hell back to ack? :aok
Really? I'm pretty sure I lit you up numerous times yesterday morning, one time while Kruel roped you like a champ. Of course, your next response will just claim sarcasm on your part, failure to comprehend your own sense of sarcasm on my part, or something involving cheap wingman tactics (even though it we both had them at the time). :lol
again, acting as if no one but you knows anything about air combat tactics... next time I talk with Robert... yes Robert Shaw, I'll tell him to look you up, maybe you can enlighten him with some of your ACM prowess.. :aok
Ah, yet another completely illogical response, bordering on the ad-hominem. Nowhere did I claim you knew nothing about ACM - on the contrary, you were the one that claimed I showed a lack of "air combat skills" and by extension, showed a lack of ACM. Interesting - you're guilty of the very thing you've accused me of. We call that hypocrisy in most circles. You then follow it up with a halfway-relevant reference to Robert Shaw, who is not an active combat pilot (I in no way mean any disrespect towards him - on the contrary, it's simply that tactics have drastically changed with modern jets and weapons and we are speaking directly about modern jets and tactics, in this case).
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I'll give you a little advice bud... folks in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... :aok
Glass houses? :lol I respond in kind to whatever is thrown out...feel free to check.
I gave up on taking the high road a while ago.
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:rofl
Sorry...... :lol..couldn't help myself!
Although I may have a different view of the game I find it funny so many people arguing over this. It's your 15$ do what you want with it. :salute
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It's your 15$ do what you want with it. :salute
Well said! :salute
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That's just rhetoric so people can satisfy immediate and pressing needs. Indeed you hear 'don't run' a lot but seldom 'stop turning!'. I think overall we can agree that BnZ is safer then TnB? That is reflected even in the progression of aircraft design & tactics I think. Hence it maybe being an obvious choice for those to whom score and winning is important. Cough.
In the real world where never dying is pretty darn important to a pilot, speed is paramount. In the arena, this is not necessarily so. Because there is a kills/time component, you can "safety" yourself right out of a good score. Note that the most flown unperked ride, the P-51D, while falling firmly into the boom and zoom category, is slower than several other contenders at typical ma alt, and may hold the number 1 slot due as much to culture and ordnance load as to effectiveness as a fighter. The second most popular fighter, the SpitXVI, is nowhere near the premiere speed demon of the LWMA, yet does everything else well.
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In the real world where never dying is pretty darn important to a pilot, speed is paramount. In the arena, this is not necessarily so. Because there is a kills/time component, you can "safety" yourself right out of a good score. Note that the most flown unperked ride, the P-51D, while falling firmly into the boom and zoom category, is slower than several other contenders at typical ma alt, and may hold the number 1 slot due as much to culture and ordnance load as to effectiveness as a fighter. The second most popular fighter, the SpitXVI, is nowhere near the premiere speed demon of the LWMA, yet does everything else well.
I don't think speed is necessarily the reason why most people choose an aircraft. BnZ when performed to a high standard is also a little more complex than pulling back on the stick when in doubt which makes things like the Spit16 more accessible I should say.
It's just my opinion but I think TnB is more risky because it is energy expensive which pushes you continually lower (assuming the thrust our aircraft has available), your SA degrades as you pull hard and have less ability to orient and you have to take a bottom-up approach, often concentrating on one guy very deeply at the expense of others. BnZ allows you to maintain e and alt, affords a top-down SA, maintains a better orientation like where your escape vector is and aircraft with good BnZ attributes often retain the ability to escape at will usually by out-diving more manoeuvrable and better sustained climbing aircraft. Adding wingmen I think makes BnZ exponentially more effective while with TnB it's only a linear increase.
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I'll concede otherwise when you show me an MA map that was won based on "most honorable flying by X team," or a KOTH winner that was selected because they demonstrated the "best example of stylish flying yet!"
You are extraordinarily rigid in your thinking Skyyr, even when the evidence is all around you that many people do not share your view (or indeed do not have to). I don't know where the word stylish came from, I did not use it.
Like it or not, every mechanic of this game is either based on or measured by score and objectives. The pretense of honor and "a good all around time" taking precedence over these items is nothing more than a fantasy. Those who would argue otherwise are either delusional or simply do not care about playing the game as it was intended to be played. That is the truth of the matter, regardless of the general consensus. Arguing otherwise is akin to claiming the point of investing is not to end up with the most money, but rather to enjoy the thrill and excitement of making investments in and of themselves.
Firstly you are making assumptions about me when I have not used the word honour at all, nor having "a good all around time". Your financial analogy is irrelevant in a recreational activity (even though I do know people who dabble for fun).
No, playing to measure yourself through score is one possible activity within this virtual environment. Score is there if you want to pay attention to it but it is not required, taking bases is possible not required, winning the war or a fight by all and every means possible is not required. Even if you can't imagine beyond the confines of your own interpretation and cultural values you must surely be aware that others think differently, even if you don't agree with them?
So with your result-centric philosophy in mind then we are really getting now to the core of the matter. When you post your small films which are essentially about you defeating another player (such as Nishizawa at the start of this thread) you are essentially asserting that you are superior to him. Regardless of what he says, how he challenges your philosophy or criticizes you, no matter what grudge you guys share, you are undeniably right and he is wrong because the result - you shooting him down - is incontrovertible? The result is he died and you killed him, therefore nothing he says or does has any merit to challenge your approach and philosophy?
Is it completely beyond your reach that I, for example, do not agree with that?
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Your financial analogy is irrelevant in a recreational activity (even though I do know people who dabble for fun).
No, playing to measure yourself through score is one possible activity within this virtual environment. Score is there if you want to pay attention to it but it is not required, taking bases is possible not required, winning the war or a fight by all and every means possible is not required. Even if you can't imagine beyond the confines of your own interpretation and cultural values you must surely be aware that others think differently, even if you don't agree with them?
The Main Arena is not a sandbox game. It has a set of rules, guidelines, and scoring mechanisms. Sure, you can play the game any way you like, but there is only one way that the game is won and scored. Now, if you or anyone else chooses to play it differently, that's fine, but you're no longer playing the game the way it was intended to be played- I've no qualms with that. But anyone who chooses not to do that is no longer playing the game the way it was intended to be played, and so they cannot complain when someone else plays the game by its rules, nor can expect anyone else to abide by their own guidelines unless openly agreed upon.
Your response is like saying, "Well, you can score touchdowns in football, but you don't have to if you don't want to." Sure - you could do that, but when the other team marches unopposed, scores, and then wins the game, you cannot argue that "well, you didn't win according to our rules" (sounds strangely familiar to the "Oh, but you HO'd!" excuses). There are only one set of rules and scoring guidelines and those are the ones that matter. Any other rules or opinions are deviant - they are irrelevant except to those who agree to abide by them to begin with.
If you want a room where you can determine rules, guess what? They've already set one up - the DA.
So with your result-centric philosophy in mind then we are really getting now to the core of the matter. When you post your small films which are essentially about you defeating another player (such as Nishizawa at the start of this thread) you are essentially asserting that you are superior to him. Regardless of what he says, how he challenges your philosophy or criticizes you, no matter what grudge you guys share, you are undeniably right and he is wrong because the result - you shooting him down - is incontrovertible? The result is he died and you killed him, therefore nothing he says or does has any merit to challenge your approach and philosophy?
Not in the least. My goal of posting was simply to confirm that Nishizawa's claim of "h2h" was incorrect, which it was.
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Although I may have a different view of the game I find it funny so many people arguing over this. It's your 15$ do what you want with it. :salute
Exactly. :aok
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I have never ever, in my 8 years of playing this game, heard of ANY of these so called "rules" or "guidelines" that you are claiming to be in the MA. Don't even get me started on the scoring mechanics of this game. The scoring mechanics of this game is flawed and has no purpose at all other than determining who gets to take command of CV's.
Though maybe I've just been living under a rock for the last 8 years and have just not read the Aces High manual. Could you perhaps share with us what these "rules" and "guidelines" of the MA are?
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The Main Arena is not a sandbox game. It has a set of rules, guidelines, and scoring mechanisms.
What are these rules or guidelines for the MA?
ack-ack
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The Main Arena is not a sandbox game. It has a set of rules, guidelines, and scoring mechanisms. Sure, you can play the game any way you like, but there is only one way that the game is won and scored. Now, if you or anyone else chooses to play it differently, that's fine, but you're no longer playing the game the way it was intended to be played
The virtual environments of Aces High are BY DEFINITION an Open world / Sandbox (as I understand the terms are interchangeable). "An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives" [1].
It is YOUR interpretation which you are trying to assert on others and to assert your score or kill of others to insist you are better at the game. Yours then is the least tolerant ideology of all.
Allow me to point out a huge gulf in your logic: you claim this is the only correct or least deviant way to play the game. However your very success and your modus operandi DEPENDS on others not operating to your criteria. Your tactic, approach and philosophy can only be effected by preying on those who do turn fight, who do fly slower non BnZ aircraft, on those who do fly alone or in lesser numbers that you do. This is the reason for your mechanistic "don't give a damn" default clause. This least deviant belief of yours could not exist if everyone thought like you. All Aces High would be then would be a contest of jockying for advantage, halfway between bases at the co-alt point, everyone flying in groups of BnZ aircraft with considerable diving away and running to ack as the temporal ebb and flow went back and forth and the only kills being of those who were least robotic in their execution.
[1] Sefton, J. (11 - 07 - 07). "The roots of open-world games". GamesRadar.
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This least deviant belief of yours could not exist if everyone thought like you. All Aces High would be then would be a contest of jockying for advantage, halfway between bases at the co-alt point, everyone flying in groups of BnZ aircraft with considerable diving away and running to ack as the temporal ebb and flow went back and forth and the only kills being of those who were least robotic in their execution.
[1] Sefton, J. (11 - 07 - 07). "The roots of open-world games". GamesRadar.
Omg That is a nauseating hypothetical!
Although, on the other hand I'm sure it would be quite a humbling experience for the proponents of this mentality, as I'm equally sure these rigid thinkers have the delusional belief that they alone demonstate a mastery of E retention, Boom and zoom, Rope a dope, Hang and bang, Working the angles, etc, etc tactics and concepts. In their hubris, they believe they are the only ones who possess the intellect to employ these concepts exclusively in game. I submit, an ego deflation the likes of which have never been seen before in AH would take place were the above hypothetical to become a reality.
:salute Nishizawa
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For the record, the above commentary was not directed at any one squad as a whole nor was it directed at those who prefer that fighting style..... Rather, only at the most vocal proponents of this "dogma".
:salute Nishizawa
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What are these rules or guidelines for the MA?
ack-ack
No picking people from 30k in a p38.
:bolt:
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What's ironic is that the same arguments were directed at him in FA, along with the rest of his ilk. Yes, ilk is a pejorative. He THINKS his stats are impressive, but they're just a show of his narcissism. He's a legend in his own mind. What's pathetic is that he'll NEVER get it, in game or in life. It's kind of like comparing Donald Trump to mother Teresa as to their worth to humanity.
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Probably everyone opining on "cheap" tactics on this thread in fact, has done some of these things, and will do them again in the future
Undoubtedly true, however most of us choose to document and share on the forums the other parts of our flying, rather than the pointless aspects that we forget and move on rapidly.
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The virtual environments of Aces High are BY DEFINITION an Open world / Sandbox (as I understand the terms are interchangeable). "An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives" [1].
Open World refers to games that allow the user to travel anywhere within the mappable game region.
Sandbox can be used to describe the same when speaking strictly about the accessible environment; however, it is more often used to describe games (usually MMORPG's) where users do not have class-restrictions, fixed rules of engagement, etc. set out before them (i.e. they can build their characters and setups any way they'd like, as you could in a sandbox). Star Wars Galaxies was such a game, where there was no restrictions on class, no stats, no in-game games, etc. Compare that to WOW, where you are restricted to classes, have set competitions, battles, etc. That is typically what is meant by "sandbox" environment.
In a sandbox game, most all aspects of gameplay are player-driven/determined (players set the economy, the prices, the rules, the alliances, etc.). FPS and combat games, by nature, are almost never sandbox games. In that regard, the Main Arena is not a sandbox game - the DA, by comparison, could somewhat fit the description.
I'm a developer/programmer.
Allow me to point out a huge gulf in your logic: you claim this is the only correct or least deviant way to play the game. However your very success and your modus operandi DEPENDS on others not operating to your criteria. Your tactic, approach and philosophy can only be effected by preying on those who do turn fight, who do fly slower non BnZ aircraft, on those who do fly alone or in lesser numbers that you do. This is the reason for your mechanistic "don't give a damn" default clause. This least deviant belief of yours could not exist if everyone thought like you.
Not true whatsoever. In fact, your very statement suggests you've never played a combat sim where e-fighting and snapshots are quite the norm (hint: we have). You imply that BnZ does not work on even grounds, or rather that a pilot that exercises it is helpless against another pilot who does the same. There is so much fundamentally wrong with your assertion that it shows a complete lack of understanding for the other half of the ACM spectrum.
All Aces High would be then would be a contest of jockying for advantage, halfway between bases at the co-alt point, everyone flying in groups of BnZ aircraft with considerable diving away and running to ack as the temporal ebb and flow went back and forth and the only kills being of those who were least robotic in their execution.
I will grant you that it is very robotic in nature, but that does not make it unplayable. Quite the opposite, and, in fact, it's that "roboticness" (i.e. discipline) that determines the winner, and honestly, I find those fights quite enjoyable. Of course, that's irrelevant, my only point is that you seem to think that we've never encountered environment, when in fact we flew it daily for years.
Who else did this? Oh, Eric Hartmann did.
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You all are poop
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The amount of time and energy put into these internet fights is very frightening.
I blame all the uncureable diseases on those who are participating in this.....
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Now let me tell you where your logic goes astray on this Shida: You are forgetting that kills per time is a scoring criterion, which is itself a reflection of the fact that humans playing a game have limited patience. Then there is the base-take aspect, involving objects on the ground. All of these things prevent infinite jockeying for advantage with no engagement occurring, among pilot-hunters striving to bag the most kills. I myself consider myself a "hunter" in the MA most of the time, yet I hardly ever go over 12K...
Furthermore, let's say jets were the only plane available in the arena. The speed and turn aspects all being identical, in combination with the above factors it would result in-guess what-furballs. Very fast furballs with huge turning radii, but still furballs.
Now let us introduce Tempests into this experiment. Some people would fly Tempests, not because they are so damn "honorable", but the better to make easy kills of jets that had gotten low and slow fighting other jets. Tempest pilots would complain about "dang running and picking 262 jocks", 262 jocks would mock Tempest pilots for their "easy-mode" choice with it's great turns and Hispanos. The energy vs. angle fighter dynamic would be back in play.
BTW, I will flat tell you that all factors being equal, it is generally requires more skill and gunnery ability to ply an energy fight against against a much more maneuverable fighter than to work more straightforward angles tactics against a far less maneuverable energy fighter. That is in fact why the general stereotype is "I reversed that 190 and he ran!!!", because on average it is easier to reverse that 190 than it is for him to kill you. Using 190 versus a Spitfire for an example, the 190 does NOT have an easier time overcoming the opponent in engaged maneuvering, quite the opposite. The advantage the 190 has is that it can engage and disengage at will, which isn't nearly as ultra-desirable in a game where no one really dies as it is in real life.
If one disagrees with me on this, then they are disagreeing with Robert Shaw, the guy who literally wrote the book on fighter combat. That is the primary reason anyone chooses to fly something slow that turns well versus one of the faster bricks, shooting down the opposition is much, much easier when one can turn as well or better.
The virtual environments of Aces High are BY DEFINITION an Open world / Sandbox (as I understand the terms are interchangeable). "An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives" [1].
It is YOUR interpretation which you are trying to assert on others and to assert your score or kill of others to insist you are better at the game. Yours then is the least tolerant ideology of all.
Allow me to point out a huge gulf in your logic: you claim this is the only correct or least deviant way to play the game. However your very success and your modus operandi DEPENDS on others not operating to your criteria. Your tactic, approach and philosophy can only be effected by preying on those who do turn fight, who do fly slower non BnZ aircraft, on those who do fly alone or in lesser numbers that you do. This is the reason for your mechanistic "don't give a damn" default clause. This least deviant belief of yours could not exist if everyone thought like you. All Aces High would be then would be a contest of jockying for advantage, halfway between bases at the co-alt point, everyone flying in groups of BnZ aircraft with considerable diving away and running to ack as the temporal ebb and flow went back and forth and the only kills being of those who were least robotic in their execution.
[1] Sefton, J. (11 - 07 - 07). "The roots of open-world games". GamesRadar.
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Hi my name is Ghost I am a poop
:cheers:
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I wish I was Ghost, he is my FPH
Awwww :cool:
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You all are poop
*sniffs underarm*
:confused:
:bolt:
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I am a noob. I get rekt by everyone while flying my la7. My favorite engagements are ones where I can run to ack and watch it destroy my enemy.
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Hey now! Not another PvP slapfest....find your own thread...I'm losing track of who hates who! :lol
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I wish I was as cool as Ghost and Poison they are awesome people and one day I will be just like them.
:noid
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Ah, go for the ad-hominem attack instead of addressing the actual core issue. Typical.
Really? I'm pretty sure I lit you up numerous times yesterday morning, one time while Kruel roped you like a champ. Of course, your next response will just claim sarcasm on your part, failure to comprehend your own sense of sarcasm on my part, or something involving cheap wingman tactics (even though it we both had them at the time). :lol
Ah, yet another completely illogical response, bordering on the ad-hominem. Nowhere did I claim you knew nothing about ACM - on the contrary, you were the one that claimed I showed a lack of "air combat skills" and by extension, showed a lack of ACM. Interesting - you're guilty of the very thing you've accused me of. We call that hypocrisy in most circles. You then follow it up with a halfway-relevant reference to Robert Shaw, who is not an active combat pilot (I in no way mean any disrespect towards him - on the contrary, it's simply that tactics have drastically changed with modern jets and weapons and we are speaking directly about modern jets and tactics, in this case).
so this is what you really wanted with your OP.... we though so... :aok
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Glass houses? :lol I respond in kind to whatever is thrown out...
like you did here?
Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?
Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad. :rofl
like I said, folks in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... you don't want to change your name again do you?
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I love everyone and enjoy this amazing game HTC has created for us. I hope we can all be friends. :angel:
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:lol
like you did here?
Like I did what? The thread was created by Skyyr...all I did was post my thoughts on HOs in the MA...which was responded to as if Id called someone's mama a name..
Thanks for your input. Say hi to Grizz for me! Havent seen him in a while....in game of course. Did he change his name? :lol
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In a sandbox game, most all aspects of gameplay are player-driven/determined (players set the economy, the prices, the rules, the alliances, etc.).
But not determined by a minority of players who assert that everyone must see it their way otherwise they are deviant players. At least concede that people don't agree with your philosophy and see things another way. Trying to force your views on others is disrespectful, elitist and a little disturbing.
If you have evidence to substantiate your claim that score-based play is the way the game is intended to be played / least deviant way then please post it. Otherwise it is as I say YOUR subjective interpretation.
I'm a developer/programmer.
Nice. I have a Master's degree in Three Dimensional Computer Graphics and Virtual Environments.
Not true whatsoever. In fact, your very statement suggests you've never played a combat sim where e-fighting and snapshots are quite the norm (hint: we have). You imply that BnZ does not work on even grounds, or rather that a pilot that exercises it is helpless against another pilot who does the same. There is so much fundamentally wrong with your assertion that it shows a complete lack of understanding for the other half of the ACM spectrum.
Then you're saying that you don't exploit those who fly lower, slower, TnB or fly in lesser co-ordinated numbers?
Who else did this? Oh, Eric Hartmann did.
That picking barstard.
Now let me tell you where your logic goes astray on this Shida: You are forgetting that kills per time is a scoring criterion,...
I'm not really that sure you're understanding my objection BnZ. Could be that you've been arguing this corner for a long time and are overly defensive. I have nothing against the BnZ style of fighting, or HOing. It's what a minority of those people use it for that I find objectionable. I've quite enjoyed some of Skyyr's longer videos. His shorter 'I pwn <insert famous name here>' ones however put him just a little over the griefing line for me to take his more rational posts seriously.
Regarding scoring I'm afraid you completely take me out of my province there. I've played this game on and off for over four years now and it may shock you to know I have no idea how the AH scoring system works beyond the obvious k/d ratio and hits percentage. I have no idea why there is a separate attack / fighter score and in fact I don't want to know. I have a far simpler / more sophisticated was to track my progress. And I use the word progress more as a placeholder in the absence of a better one.
BTW, I will flat tell you that all factors being equal, it is generally requires more skill and gunnery ability to ply an energy fight against against a much more maneuverable fighter than to work more straightforward angles tactics against a far less maneuverable energy fighter.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlpo3ef8m3p96bw/Brewster_fight.ahf
When I'm not at the furbal lake I'm often trawling around the MA low down inviting an attack from those with superior energy and /or numbers. As an off-peak hours player and one who flies alone I have found this is about the only way I can get any action at all. I should say 80-90% of my merges in the MA start with the opponent on my high six.
Do you think I'd still be able to play this game if the score was important to me?
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But not determined by a minority of players who assert that everyone must see it their way otherwise they are deviant players. At least concede that people don't agree with your philosophy and see things another way. Trying to force your views on others is disrespectful, elitist and a little disturbing.
Again, you completely misunderstand my point, almost to the exact opposite.
I have no wish to subject my views on anyone else, and I readily admit that others have different philosophies - I've never debated this. However, when someone comes in and claims that "Well, the 'proper' way is to do it this way" (I'm paraphrasing the argument that the MA is about fights and honor), then I will always point out that they are, in fact, arbitrary and deviant. That was my only point.
Yet again, the irony lies in the fact of others claiming we're asserting our philosophy, when in reality it's really them arguing how theirs is correct ("you could've given him a good fight, but you didn't!") when it, objectively, is not. It might be their preference, and I recognize that, but the validity ends there (see below).
If you have evidence to substantiate your claim that score-based play is the way the game is intended to be played / least deviant way then please post it. Otherwise it is as I say YOUR subjective interpretation.
Tour winners are determined based on stats. In fact, the homepage says, quote, "Latest Tour Winners." The winners are determined based on kills, rate of kills over time, accuracy, etc. Turnfighting vs BnZ, honor vs quick and easy kills - none of those are considered. Similarly, the MA is won/reset after X bases are captured. It doesn't matter who flew the most efficiently or had the most effective bombing runs - the team with the most captured bases wins.
The game is meant to be played based on completing objectives. How one goes about completing those objectives is up to them and them alone. However, for one player to complain or otherwise chastise another player for completing those objectives simply because the player in question is disregarding arbitrary ideas of honor, fun, and so on, is quite illogical. Put another way, it's the complaining players' attempt to try to force another player to abide by their arbitrary rules.
Attacking or otherwise pursuing a player who quickly kills another, without giving the other a fair chance, goes against the very basis of objectivity. The goal of the game, and the scoring mechanisms, are based around killing the other guy. How one player might kill another is irrelevant, but for a player to complain that a kill was not "honorable," "fair," etc., that is indeed deviant.
Then you're saying that you don't exploit those who fly lower, slower, TnB or fly in lesser co-ordinated numbers?
I think you're implying that there is some sort of unfair (or otherwise unchallenging) "exploitation" going on of BnZ vs TnB, when in reality it is nothing more than a logic problem. You can offensively fight BnZ with BnZ (correct called energy tactics), but you can't offensively fight BnZ with TnB, you can only go defensive and hope to turn the tables. We don't exploit it, we simply know the weaknesses of TnB and therefore we avoid it as a primary tactic. It's not our fault if others choose the TnB spectrum of fighting - they have the option of the same aircraft and tactics that we do.
That said, following Robert Shaw's dictum, a true energy fight should devolve into a rolling scissors. Provided there is no clear winner of the rolling scissors, the fight will then devolve into a TnB situation. You seem to imply that once a BnZ fighter encounters another, it's game over. The truth is far from that, and many times the best turnfights evolve from energy fights where neither aircraft can gain an energy advantage. We're not opposed to TnB at all, it simply has a very specific use.
Regarding engaging lesser numbers of aircraft - I'm not sure where you drew that conclusion from. In most cases, we're either evenly matched or actually outnumbered. Sure, there's situations where we outnumber the other guys, but we don't look for lesser numbers anymore than we look for any other kind of fight. We simply look for the biggest dar bar and head for it.
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all I did was post my thoughts on HOs in the MA...which was responded to as if Id called someone's mama a name..
which was responded to by who? the entire muppet squad? you sound like a giddy lil girl who just found a new man crush... and you're showing your true colors a bit.. don't you think? :rolleyes:
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Regarding scoring I'm afraid you completely take me out of my province there. I've played this game on and off for over four years now and it may shock you to know I have no idea how the AH scoring system works beyond the obvious k/d ratio and hits percentage. I have no idea why there is a separate attack / fighter score and in fact I don't want to know. I have a far simpler / more sophisticated was to track my progress. And I use the word progress more as a placeholder in the absence of a better one.
What I'm saying is that the high scorers in the game don't simply hang out and wait for the odd lone goon or lanc formation to fly under them. If they did that it would make them very non-competitive on the kills-per-hour ranking. Here is what goes into fighter score: kill-death ratio, kills per sortie, hit percentage, kill time, and kill points. So to rank high, you have to significantly more than you die, kill a lot per sortie(okay, you have to rearm alot, bluntly. I think this is a flawed metric), hit what you aim at, kill often, and kill a lot in a tour. So while "gaming the game" does go into a high score, you still have to be a master of your airplane and it's guns if you want to see your name on the front page. Not everyone could do it, quite the opposite.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlpo3ef8m3p96bw/Brewster_fight.ahf
Hmmm...you are an excellent pilot in what is not a bad turner itself, he mismanaged this throttle and closure rate pretty badly. You are clearly the superior pilot. Yet he manages to cut inside you on a couple of turns and even briefly take your dead six and ping you, via having a better angles fighter, right before committing the worse of overshoots. After that, he takes the vertical giving you a shot. Your cannons and aim means that's all you need. Probably even just by keeping in his right hand turn he could have held you off and eventually come around in the nose-to-tail chase if you had followed, not too sure about turn rate for the Brew vs. Ki. With better throttle management and/or better gunnery, the better angles fighter would have won this one without doing too much besides pulling on the pole. So nothing in this film really conflicts with what I said-In general it takes more experience and better gunnery for the "energy" fighter to close the deal than it does for the "angles" fighter.
[/quote]
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which was responded to by who? the entire muppet squad? you sound like a giddy lil girl who just found a new man crush... and you're showing your true colors a bit.. don't you think? :rolleyes:
And you sound like a person trying desperately to find something to make another person upset. Try harder.
:rofl
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Ah yes...here they come. When one cant actually argue the point logically...the insults come out. Standard procedure right out of that trolling post Jugger made on the private forum, eh? What was it..."Never, ever let the lowly noobs win. Never admit you are wrong!" Or something similar?
Next up should be the mass posts from the rest of the squad. :rofl
ahhhh.. did you ascertain I was talking about you?
There is no point to argue here zerstorer.. Why does everything have to be a fight?
Pretty simple actually.. Skyyr says in so many words.. 'I see what you guys are doing lead turning instead of shooting me in the face at merge' 'When you do that you're just missing an opportunity to shoot at me so I take the shot' 'You're not avoiding the ho shot, you're trying to get an angle on me and I'm going to shoot at you for doing that'... pretty simple..
Skyyr did have about 20secs of brilliance last night.. He got 2 of us pretty quick.. I had to elevate him beyond 'general noob' after it.. Was nice flying.. Hes done it in just over 6-7months I guess.. But 10years? Just dayum... Really, 10years?
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ahhhh.. did you ascertain I was talking about you?
There is no point to argue here zerstorer.. Why does everything have to be a fight?
Pretty simple actually.. Skyyr says in so many words.. 'I see what you guys are doing lead turning instead of shooting me in the face at merge' 'When you do that you're just missing an opportunity to shoot at me so I take the shot' 'You're not avoiding the ho shot, you're trying to get an angle on me and I'm going to shoot at you for doing that'... pretty simple..
Skyyr did have about 20secs of brilliance last night.. He got 2 of us pretty quick.. I had to elevate him beyond 'general noob' after it.. Was nice flying.. Hes done it in just over 6-7months I guess.. But 10years? Just dayum... Really, 10years?
ROFL...................
heya kappa!
here I thought this whole fiasco of a thread was just between skyyr & ARSNishi.....
and it seems so many others ( not you or many others specifically, that has actually posted to this particular thread ) seem to be jerking this thread and hijacking it for their own amusement or personal flame throwing or flame baiting cause.....
it is down right pathetic if you ask me....
anyhows...was some fun fights last night kappa, dedalos, lazer, peppr, MotCH and others who were there.....
bout time Skuzzy locked this thread for a majority of reasons if you want my thoughts about it....
Cheers kappa , until we have some more fun AH dogfights
<S>
TC
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Pretty simple actually.. Skyyr says in so many words.. 'I see what you guys are doing lead turning instead of shooting me in the face at merge' 'When you do that you're just missing an opportunity to shoot at me so I take the shot' 'You're not avoiding the ho shot, you're trying to get an angle on me and I'm going to shoot at you for doing that'... pretty simple..
Pretty much. Good fights, by the way - enjoyed them. -=S=-
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(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/nedry_zps0eceffe9.png)
This is all I see whenever I read these threads.....
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^^^^ :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I have no wish to subject my views on anyone else, and I readily admit that others have different philosophies - I've never debated this. However, when someone comes in and claims that "Well, the 'proper' way is to do it this way" (I'm paraphrasing the argument that the MA is about fights and honor), then I will always point out that they are, in fact, arbitrary and deviant. That was my only point.
Yet again, the irony lies in the fact of others claiming we're asserting our philosophy, when in reality it's really them arguing how theirs is correct ("you could've given him a good fight, but you didn't!") when it, objectively, is not. It might be their preference, and I recognize that, but the validity ends there (see below).
There's no irony. I'm not saying you are trying to convert others to adopt your flying style, I'm saying when you use post your small films featuring <a famous AH pilot> being defeated by you, regardless of the method, nature of shot or situation, you are trying to force your philosophy on others. You are trying to assert it doesn't matter what they say about you you shot them down and have a film. Even one victory out of five seems to suffice. In this regard you're a bit like a more sophisticated Midway, which is an icky thought in itself (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3310/pukel.gif)
Take that film you posted of fighting and defeating Bruv109 in that K-4 - K-4 fight. That was the most skillful piece of ACM I've seen you use so far. As a film in itself you could have just left it at that and there'd be none of this friction or suspicion that you're basically a griefer. However, you used the film in PMs to various people illustrating your point how you think Bruv is a knob-jockey and how you are better than him. There was some talk of a long term plan to teach him a lesson but let's not go into that :eek:
Tour winners are determined based on stats. In fact, the homepage says, quote, "Latest Tour Winners."...
Yeah but that's still just nothing more than your personal interpretation of the intention (obviously you associate with others who agree). I see the score as optional, not really proving much of anything and the arenas a virtual environment offering an activity more like crazy golf than American football or a practice dojo. I don't focus on results at all even in my own individual fights like the one I posted. I don't imply anything about my opponents except that they are human and I like to interact with them through the medium of ACM.
'Winners'. It's a bit of an abstract and primitive view don't you think? You mention objectives, I have those too but perhaps they are much more internal. I'm quite sure that by your measures I am deviating the game, but I (and evidently others) just disagree with you.
Let me ask you something Skyyr, and I feel I have to qualify this by saying there is absolutely no smack talk or egotistical motivation involved in this question at all. Since you place such a high value in score indicating that player x is superior to player x, isn't it then the case by YOUR VALUE SYSTEM that Bruv119 is a much better pilot than you? I mean he is on the 'winner' board month in and month out isn't he?
*Edited for dyslexia :(
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What I'm saying is that the high scorers in the game don't simply hang out and wait for the odd lone goon or lanc formation to fly under them. If they did that it would make them very non-competitive on the kills-per-hour ranking. Here is what goes into fighter score: kill-death ratio, kills per sortie, hit percentage, kill time, and kill points. So to rank high, you have to significantly more than you die, kill a lot per sortie(okay, you have to rearm alot, bluntly. I think this is a flawed metric), hit what you aim at, kill often, and kill a lot in a tour. So while "gaming the game" does go into a high score, you still have to be a master of your airplane and it's guns if you want to see your name on the front page. Not everyone could do it, quite the opposite.
BnZ I'm not really qualified to discuss the scoring system in any detail. I think I know what you mean about pilots who do well with score and what that says about their flying. I don't believe I suggested timidness was part of the equation. I simply compared the two styles of BnZ and TnB and tried to make the case that the former is an overall 'safer' approach.
Hmmm...you are an excellent pilot in what is not a bad turner itself, he mismanaged this throttle and closure rate pretty badly. You are clearly the superior pilot. Yet he manages to cut inside you on a couple of turns and even briefly take your dead six and ping you, via having a better angles fighter, right before committing the worse of overshoots. After that, he takes the vertical giving you a shot. Your cannons and aim means that's all you need. Probably even just by keeping in his right hand turn he could have held you off and eventually come around in the nose-to-tail chase if you had followed, not too sure about turn rate for the Brew vs. Ki. With better throttle management and/or better gunnery, the better angles fighter would have won this one without doing too much besides pulling on the pole. So nothing in this film really conflicts with what I said-In general it takes more experience and better gunnery for the "energy" fighter to close the deal than it does for the "angles" fighter.
Thanks for watching the film and your feedback. I didn't post it because I disagree with your point. I just wanted to evidence that I am not as inexperienced with this mismatch, even if I do it at the more extreme end of the spectrum.
:salute
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There's no irony. I'm not saying you are trying to convert others to adopt your flying style, I'm saying when you use post your small films featuring <a famous AH pilot> being defeated by you, regardless of the method, nature of shot or situation, you are trying to force your philosophy on others. You are trying to assert it doesn't matter what they say about you you shot them down and have a film. Even one victory out of five seems to suffice.
I rarely post films of anything but actual dogfights. The only three occasions that I've posted films showing kills without context were 1) a film of INK HO'ing, because he claimed HO'ing was dishonorable (and I posted proof showing he actually initiated one), 2) the film in this thread, where I was accused of taking a non-existent h2h shot, and 3) a film of Lilmak initiating a HO (after accusing us of doing so). All other films that I have posted show the entire context of the fight.
I'm also not sure where you get the one in five statistic from. I've not killed nor died to Nish until this last tour, and the score is at 4-2 my lead (I just looked up the stats, as I didn't know what they were).
Take that film you posted of fighting and defeating Bruv109 in that K-4 - K-4 fight. That was the most skillful piece of ACM I've seen you use so far. As a film in itself you could have just left it at that and there'd be none of this friction or suspicion that you're basically a griefer. However, you used the film in PMs to various people illustrating your point how you think Bruv is a knob-jockey and how you are better than him. There was some talk of a long term plan to teach him a lesson but let's not go into that :eek:
PM will be shortly sent - you might change your mind on who's the griefer ;)
'Winners'. It's a bit of an abstract and primitive view don't you think? You mention objectives, I have those too but perhaps they are much more internal. I'm quite sure that by your measures I am deviating the game, but I (and evidently others) just disagree with you.
We can agree to disagree - no harm in that.
Let me ask you something Skyyr, and I feel I have to qualify this by saying there is absolutely no smack talk or egotistical motivation involved in this question at all. Since you place such a high value in score indicating that player x is superior to player x, isn't it then the case by YOUR VALUE SYSTEM that Bruv119 is a much better pilot than you? I mean he is on the 'winner' board month in and month out isn't he?
I never said that score was an indicator of skill (please feel free to re-read this post as well as all of my previous ones), and it's a bit disingenuous to even attempt to spin my statement in that direction. Score is simply an indicator of success, "winning" if you will in a game. By your assertion, every Knight that wins the war must be better than every losing Bishop, and so forth. Nowhere did I imply winning and skill to be the same, I simply said that people cannot arbitrarily expect other players to play by their ideologies of "skill" when they completely differ from (and many times conflict with) the end-game objectives.
What score does denote is success. Is he more successful? Yes, but then again, one would hope that someone with nearly a decade of experience at a game would be slightly more successful than someone who hasn't even played a single full year, especially given the non-weighted ranking system of the game.
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I'm also not sure where you get the one in five statistic from. I've not killed nor died to Nish until this last tour, and the score is at 4-2 my lead (I just looked up the stats, as I didn't know what they were).
The K-4 film. There was some background I was informed.
PM will be shortly sent - you might change your mind on who's the griefer ;)
Well I try to avoid getting involved in feuding. Griefing is a mortal cartoon sin of course. You have to spend all of cartoon eternity in the hell of the upside-down leaky toilet.
We can agree to disagree - no harm in that.
Agreed. Very civilized :salute
I never said that score was an indicator of skill (please feel free to re-read this post as well as all of my previous ones), and it's a bit disingenuous to even attempt to spin my statement in that direction. Score is simply an indicator of success, "winning" if you will in a game. By your assertion, every Knight that wins the war must be better than every losing Bishop, and so forth. Nowhere did I imply winning and skill to be the same, I simply said that people cannot arbitrarily expect other players to play by their ideologies of "skill" when they completely differ from (and many times conflict with) the end-game objectives.
What score does denote is success. Is he more successful? Yes, but then again, one would hope that someone with nearly a decade of experience at a game would be slightly more successful than someone who hasn't even played a single full year, especially given the non-weighted ranking system of the game.
Yeah I wasn't really trying to spin anything, just wanted to see how you reacted to the question. I know you haven't been here too long but you have a decade in the Fighter Ace thing wasn't it?
Well, an interesting conversation. I understand you a lot more now. Enjoy Aces High and try to stay out of trouble ;)
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I just noticed something - just an observation. You called the pilot by name on the vox announcing your kill, just wondering why really.
Most pilots I've come across call aircraft type down, i.e. "Spit down". This way everyone knows that it's the spit that's out of the action. GVer's tend to call by player, i,e, "F77 down". Probably because there's a greater awareness of personal threat. Having said that you sometime hear "Spit down" pause "oh wow it was so and so"
If you're recording all your films, why don't you give making a movie a go, like Dolby. A little practice and it's good fun.
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Not in the least. My goal of posting was simply to confirm that Nishizawa's claim of "h2h" was incorrect, which it was.
Your initial goal was to portray me as a HO whiner. Once the facts did not bear that out, and you saw what a hard sell that was going to be, You decided to walk it back and refine it to the above stated goal.
The absurd irony to this whole thread is that someone was so eager to be judged "not guilty"....(in this one instance where no "HO whine" was recorded) ...of a practice he so proudly embraces in virtually every other instance.
Equally ironic, the fact that I wasn't at the controls is the only reason this court of public opinion concluded "h2h" didn't fit in my compliment.... Had I been at the controls.. This whole fiasco would have been rendered moot.... We would have been protractor verified, nose on nose.... I would have broke at the last minute and avoided your incoming fire, inevitable regardless of my orientation.... The most likely outcome as evidenced by our many prior encounters earlier that day..... No easy kill.... No film.... No need for sarcastically complimenting an easy kill of an unpiloted plane from me... No need for a "look at me, I killed Nishizawa" thread.
The absurd irony was amusing and entertaining, but the ever increasing absurdity has become tiresome.
Good day
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I just noticed something - just an observation. You called the pilot by name on the vox announcing your kill, just wondering why really.
If you're recording all your films, why don't you give making a movie a go, like Dolby. A little practice and it's good fun.
Typically, pilots stay in their aircraft of choice for some time. If there are, for example, two KI-84's (which there were, the other was JUDAS), it lets my wingman know who got sent back to the tower. That way, we know not to expect X player for 3-5 minutes per grid of travel time and that any other similar aircraft encountered during that time are a different player. It aids in target prioritization and ID'ing flight styles, of sorts.
We did make a movie - it was our first attempt at a compilation. Kruel has an even better one in the works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XscUWDeU-qg
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Your initial goal was to portray me as a HO whiner. Once the facts did not bear that out, and you saw what a hard sell that was going to be, You decided to walk it back and refine it to the above stated goal.
The facts? The fact is you accused me a "h2h" shot, which was all but unanimously proven not be the case. The fact you called it anything at all says otherwise, as does your own admission that it was a sarcastic comment. Had you not accused it of being something it wasn't, I wouldn't said a word or posted a single character in regards to it.
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The facts? The fact is you accused me a "h2h" shot, which was all but unanimously proven not be the case. The fact you called it anything at all says otherwise, as does your own admission that it was a sarcastic comment. Had you not accused it of being something it wasn't, I wouldn't said a word or posted a single character in regards to it.
I didn't ACCUSE you of anything. The FACT is, I complimented you.... For the umpteenth time. We've already discussed my motivations for the sarcasm ad nauseum. The sarcasm had nothing to do with whether or not it was an h2h.... Rather it had everything to do with your shooting at a straight line target. Do you deny trying to portray me as a HO whiner?.... Get off that kick and we will put this dead horse 6 feet under.... Unless of course you want to be so bold as to call me a liar and presume to know my motivations.
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Griefers, but not very good ones; even when they have a squadmate over on the other giving the position and alt away of their intended victims, they still fail.
TC had that high 190 buddy of his vectored in on my position every time until he logged. Mr 190 didn't get anything during that bout of attempted greifing. You see TCs mechanics are old outdated and well known.
I think it's time they gave up trying to assert themselves and just got on enjoying the game, perhaps learning some more ACM along the way.
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(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/xYMTd9L_zps791782b0.gif)
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(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/xYMTd9L_zps791782b0.gif)
:rofl
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Unless of course you want to be so bold as to call me a liar and presume to know my motivations.
By definition, a liar is someone who says something that is untrue. You claimed it was a h2h, and then claimed that film would should otherwise (it, in fact, did not). It then follows...
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I think it's time they gave up trying to assert themselves and just got on enjoying the game, perhaps learning some more ACM along the way.
This.
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By definition, a liar is someone who says something that is untrue. You claimed it was a h2h, and then claimed that film would should otherwise (it, in fact, did not). It then follows...
..... Do try to keep up, that hasn't been disputed for several pages now. So you don't deny your attempted portrayal then?
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Griefers, but not very good ones; even when they have a squadmate over on the other giving the position and alt away of their intended victims, they still fail.
TC had that high 190 buddy of his vectored in on my position every time until he logged. Mr 190 didn't get anything during that bout of attempted greifing. You see TCs mechanics are old outdated and well known.
I think it's time they gave up trying to assert themselves and just got on enjoying the game, perhaps learning some more ACM along the way.
Ah Dolby... Always taking "the high road". How about I make you a suggestion: stop with the pronouncements and just play the game. If you are truly interested in changing the tone start with yourself. I plan to do likewise... Attempting to have a discussion of any sort on the forum ends up as a b1tchiing match and I am tired of being a participant. At this point I've lost track of the original reason for this thread and I suspect everyone else has as well.
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/xYMTd9L_zps791782b0.gif)
Glzsqd: please stop trying to defuse these tense threads with humorous postings. It's hard for me remain focused on my trolling grumpiness while laughing. :lol :aok
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this point I've lost track of the original reason for this thread and I suspect everyone else has as well
No we haven't. You would like us to, but we haven't.
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No we haven't. You would like us to, but we haven't.
this
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HOing first pass on anything other than a zeke, brew, or KI43 is for noobs and little Englishmen (looks at Dolby, wondering why he doesn't use his privilege)! :old:
I hath spokeneth :old:
now how the hell do I get outta this cursed place :headscratch:
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HOing first pass on anything other than a zeke, brew, or KI43 is for noobs and little Englishmen (looks at Dolby, wondering why he doesn't use his privilege)! :old:
I hath spokeneth :old:
now how the hell do I get outta this cursed place :headscratch:
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/butthead_zpsd0d5f6a4.png)
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(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r561/folanjohnp1/butthead_zpsd0d5f6a4.png)
Glzz has too much time on his hands... :old:
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Are you kidding me? With phones today I can mock people over a video game while going 90 down residential streets!
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Are you kidding me? With phones today I can mock people over a video game while going 90 down residential streets!
:rofl but so true...
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Griefers, but not very good ones; even when they have a squadmate over on the other giving the position and alt away of their intended victims, they still fail.
TC had that high 190 buddy of his vectored in on my position every time until he logged. Mr 190 didn't get anything during that bout of attempted greifing. You see TCs mechanics are old outdated and well known.
I think it's time they gave up trying to assert themselves and just got on enjoying the game, perhaps learning some more ACM along the way.
You really do have a serious mental problem....
You need to stop making accusations about me that are bogus and inflammatory
TC
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Griefers, but not very good ones; even when they have a squadmate over on the other giving the position and alt away of their intended victims, they still fail.
TC had that high 190 buddy of his vectored in on my position every time until he logged. Mr 190 didn't get anything during that bout of attempted greifing. You see TCs mechanics are old outdated and well known.
I think it's time they gave up trying to assert themselves and just got on enjoying the game, perhaps learning some more ACM along the way.
Actually you have been at these false accusations and accusing me for some time now, so much that your parolee status should be revoked and you should be PNG'ed again, but permanently this time..
Bugger off now
TC
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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I find it ironic that EVERY thread that involves Skyyr almost ALWAYS end up with an argument between the following or including the following : Vraciu, Kruel, Dolby, TC, Fulcrum, one or two of the muppets & you can't forget the host himself Skyyr :rolleyes:
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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(http://www.cleanwateraction.org/files/images/ca/Front%20image_drinking-water.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanwateraction.org/files/images/ca/Front%20image_drinking-water.jpg)
:noid
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There is too much drama here for a video game. :furious
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If you are truly interested in changing the tone start with yourself. I plan to do likewise...
Have you been playing this for almost 10years? Err, I'm sorry.. Planning? :headscratch:
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Have you been playing this for almost 10years? Err, I'm sorry.. Planning? :headscratch:
(http://thismomsgotsomethingtosay.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/shush2.jpg)
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hehe
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We feel it is necessary to initiate a group hug.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/11/article-0-11AA3F21000005DC-685_964x674.jpg)
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Dolby, if you are so sure about all of what you think you know, then have HTC pull all my records, chat logs, posts in every public and private forum here on the boards
As for accusing me of trolling or grieving players while flying under V1PER or Viper, while I was in TopGun for that brief period, I'll let Joachim, DrBone and TnDep answer any questions or claims you keep on insisting of in that regard... You are the one accusing me, show me your proof...
As for those you made assumptions or accusations that I might be Badboy or Badz, Hell that stuff happened nearly 8 through 18 years ago... I never clamed to be him nor denied it, I simply thought it was too funny, seeing other players getting so worked up and making inaccurate claims...
As for some of the old handles I may have used... Heck I've probably forgot most of them...
I can tell you that several of my other gameids were used in helping some CM's and HTC in some findings of some individuals in some events, but will not go any further with that...
Please be sure to be kind enough and man enough to apologize, once you finally figure out the actual truth..
Hopefully we might even become friends and buy each other a few scotch drinks at an AH con, one day!
Have a good morning, Dolby, Sir!
TC
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It does not follow that because you haven't been banned you are not guilty.
Badboy can still be found on any given weekend flying his Tempest at the furball lake with a second account in God mode and the sole purpose of locating & griefing those players which he identifies as considering themselves proponents of skillful ACM. Despite several films of his activities being submitted to HTC, he still operates with impunity and has continuously been the source of people ending their playing session early and has been a contributing factor to some quitting the game.
rGood friend of yours isn't he?
nrshida,
I have been friends wit badboy since around 95/96 back in AW4W... but in regards to the accusations made against him, I truly have no knowledge about it and therefore it would be wrong of me to comment on it... even though he is a good friend of mine and I feel obligated to stick up for him in his defense, it would be wrong of me to do so, since as I posted already, I have no knowledge of the claims, accusations or truth about any of it..
TC
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TC, Shida raises a good point. ;)
However, I have a fantastic memory for the most part, I recall akak mentioning something a while ago,; http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,350150.60.html Read reply 61 and pay attention to 70.
I wouldnt drink a Scotch with the likes of you if I was dying of dehydration.
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nrshida,
I have been friends wit badboy since around 95/96 back in AW4W... but in regards to the accusations made against him, I truly have no knowledge about it and therefore it would be wrong of me to comment on it... even though he is a good friend of mine and I feel obligated to stick up for him in his defense, it would be wrong of me to do so, since as I posted already, I have no knowledge of the claims, accusations or truth about any of it..
TC
The accusations I made about him were proven beyond reasonable doubt. Fair enough if you don't want to comment, that's your prerogative. I was just curious what your position was on abusing God Mode / dot wingman and giving away positions and alts or indeed gathering or using that information yourself.
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Wouldn't scotch just further dehydrate you?
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Wouldn't scotch just further dehydrate you?
It would.
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This is true.
However, TC is American as can be.
It does not follow that because you haven't been banned you are not guilty.
Badboy can still be found on any given weekend flying his Tempest at the furball lake with a second account in God mode and the sole purpose of locating & griefing those players which he identifies as considering themselves proponents of skillful ACM. Despite several films of his activities being submitted to HTC, he still operates with impunity and has continuously been the source of people ending their playing session early and has been a contributing factor to some quitting the game.
Good friend of yours isn't he?
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Wouldn't scotch just further dehydrate you?
It would make that and all other problems seem a lot less pressing though.
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However, TC is American as can be.
:headscratch:
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:headscratch:
I think there is a suggestion of a limited gene pool?
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I think there is a suggestion of a limited gene pool?
Only across the pond, so to speak. It's one reason we left an isolated island in favor of a much larger continent, increasing and diversifying our genetic makeup just a bit. ;)
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I think there is a suggestion of a limited gene pool?
I am suggesting that I can confirm at least some of the accusations against Badboy. But I understand him to be English, and I've heard TC on range, that accent never came out of a British mouth. :aok
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I am suggesting that I can confirm at least some of the accusations against Badboy. But I understand him to be English, and I've heard TC on range, that accent never came out of a British mouth. :aok
For the record, I know TC =/= Badboy.
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Only across the pond, so to speak. It's one reason we left an isolated island in favor of a much larger continent, increasing and diversifying our genetic makeup just a bit. ;)
I had to chuckle at that; there's that tripe falling out of your mouth again.
I doubt you know the true reason, one that doesn't come from idealised propaganda that spills out once a year.
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I had to chuckle at that; there's that tripe falling out of your mouth again.
I doubt you know the true reason, one that doesn't come from idealised propaganda that spills out once a year.
Let's not turn this into a US vs Euro purse fight...we win that on account we've never lost a Super Bowl :D
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Let's not turn this into a US vs Euro purse fight...we win that on account we've never lost a Super Bowl :D
And the "world" series
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Let's not turn this into a US vs Euro purse fight...we win that on account we've never lost a Super Bowl :D
I don't think any of our wars with England were purse fights. By definition, they were flat-out victories. lol
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And the "world" series
Hahaha I love those meme
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I don't think any of our wars with England were purse fights. By definition, they were flat-out victories. lol
On the coat tails of your forefathers, who were victorious all the way to letting the White House get over ran and burnt to a crisp.
These days you yourself only know defeat at the hands of an Englishman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHQsXhS_7k
"lol", as you put it.
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On the coat tails of your forefathers, who were victorious all the way to letting the White House get over ran and burnt to a crisp.
These days you yourself only know defeat at the hands of an Englishman.
Ah, the rebuttals from a citizen of a country that won a battle but lost a war. The greatest military of the era, beaten by pissed off farmers with pitchforks. :D
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Enough of this!
I HATE ENGLISHMEN
but I love English-women
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HAHA Skyyr, aww that tickled me... I best not bring up tiny Vietnam and their pissed off farmers.
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I'm not in on this US / UK ordeal y'all are having...
My cousin Earl nor his nephews William or Harry would most likely not approve...
nor my family members on the Montgomery side...
Heh...
TC ( of the Spencer clan )
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I'm not in on this US / UK ordeal y'all are having...
My cousin Earl nor his nephews William or Harry would most likely not approve...
nor my family members on the Montgomery side...
Heh...
TC ( of the Spencer clan )
I'm Welsh / Irish.... So I concur. :lol
On a side note... The English would have had their Saxo-Norman tulips kicked by the Scots, French and Irish many times over if not for the Welsh longbowman. Crecy? Poitiers? Agincourt? Welsh arrows, baby! :aok
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longbows are a welsh invention - myth
do some history homework!
And I actually am of half Irish/Welsh stock, my grandfather was born in Ireland and my mother/grandmother were born in Wales.
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I'm an Anglo-Scott-German, We've been extensive tracing our heritage, to a point of 13,820 people and are yet to find any Welsh.
Morrell, Douglas Clan (Mitchell), Kantenwein.
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longbows are a welsh invention - myth
do some history homework!
And I actually am of half Irish/Welsh stock, my grandfather was born in Ireland and my mother/grandmother were born in Wales.
Hey bat, are you still making them longbows, like you use to, years back? Just curious, haven't seen you post anything about it in a good while...
TC
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longbows are a welsh invention - myth
do some history homework!
And I actually am of half Irish/Welsh stock, my grandfather was born in Ireland and my mother/grandmother were born in Wales.
Never stated they were invented by the Welsh. I said they, in the hands of our ancestors, helped the English defeat numerous enemies.
I could recommend several works for you to reference. The following is an excellent layman's narrative...written by a Scott and a Brit!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Warbow-From-Hastings/dp/085733090X (http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Warbow-From-Hastings/dp/085733090X)
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Hey bat, are you still making them longbows, like you use to, years back? Just curious, haven't seen you post anything about it in a good while...
TC
Now that fact I was not aware of...and I find super cool! :aok
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Hey bat, are you still making them longbows, like you use to, years back? Just curious, haven't seen you post anything about it in a good while...
TC
Yeah sure am TC, I think I've used up my allowance of look-at-me posts on longbows already :D
Actually very nearly ready to split a yew trunk that I've been seasoning for 2 years, hopefully the patience will pay off.
Longbowmen employed during that period were made up of peasants from all over Britain, the majority being English. It was only, ironically, the defeat of the Welsh by the English that inevitably resulted in Welshmen fighting in France with longbows.
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Yeah sure am TC, I think I've used up my allowance of look-at-me posts on longbows already :D
Actually very nearly ready to split a yew trunk that I've been seasoning for 2 years, hopefully the patience will pay off.
Longbowmen employed during that period were made up of peasants from all over Britain, the majority being English. It was only, ironically, the defeat of the Welsh by the English that inevitably resulted in Welshmen fighting in France with longbows.
Those were the ones who couldn't shoot. :neener:
In all seriousness...very cool. I've always wanted to see a true longbow in action...sadly one mostly sees modern bows here in the states. I did have the pleasure of watching a archer here in the states use a replica Mongolian bow a few years back....very nasty weapon.
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(http://cdn.niketalk.com/3/3b/3bec90f9_image.png)
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(http://cdn.niketalk.com/3/3b/3bec90f9_image.png)
:lol
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(http://cdn.niketalk.com/3/3b/3bec90f9_image.png)
:lol where have you been? That happened weeks ago!
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:lol where have you been? That happened weeks ago!
:noid
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:noid
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:noid
:lol I meant the derailment of this thread. ;)
FINAL IN BEFORE THE LOCK! :old:
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IB4TL :old:
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I am INterested in how this thread got so off topic...
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I am INterested in how this thread got so off topic...
(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/PeekABoo_3ef209_640992.jpg)
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So you don't deny your attempted portrayal then?
Portrayal of? I simply showed film and screenshots - nothing else. The only portrayal here is what you apparently feel is insinuated.
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Portrayal of? I simply showed film and screenshots - nothing else. The only portrayal here is what you apparently feel is insinuated.
I've already repeatedly stated it ad nauseum.... the answer to your question is already there for the reading. I thought that I asked a simple question that really only required a simple answer. It's amazing to me that someone who is so wedded to the idea of staying as fast as you can in game, struggles so, keeping up on these boards.
From the moment this incident happened you sought to advance this depiction of me.... When all I did was compliment your h2h shooting skills..... When the masses deemed that I, with my snap assessment, misattributed the AoA... I said I can live with that. You, with your choice of words chosen for the OP.... Clearly tried to foist this characterization upon me. This besmirching started immediately after the incident.... Prompting me to ask a question "What did I say? I simply complimented you" Your characterization will not stick in spite of your determined efforts to make it.
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I've already repeatedly stated it ad nauseum.... the answer to your question is already there for the reading. I thought that I asked a simple question that really only required a simple answer. It's amazing to me that someone who is so wedded to the idea of staying as fast as you can in game, struggles so, keeping up on these boards.
From the moment this incident happened you sought to advance this depiction of me.... When all I did was compliment your h2h shooting skills..... When the masses deemed that I, with my snap assessment, misattributed the AoA... I said I can live with that. You, with your choice of words chosen for the OP.... Clearly tried to foist this characterization upon me. This besmirching started immediately after the incident.... Prompting me to ask a question "What did I say? I simply complimented you" Your characterization will not stick in spite of your determined efforts to make it.
I never attempted to stick a characterization to you. I simply set out to confirm that a false claim was indeed false.
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Accusations of "h2h," "HO," "skillless," and such ensued
No "accusations" were leveled by me. Never brought up the word "HO" Nor did I call you "skillless". "And such ensued" Is most certainly a wide open invitation for the readers to infer that I had resorted to a typical "HO whine" rant. "H2H" Is the only one that is attributable to me.... And it was chosen precisely because I personally, view it as a broader, less polarizing, less stigmatizing, non- derogatory descriptive term...... A descriptive term that, when all is said and done....was part of a compliment. Sarcastic yes, but the sarcasm had nothing to do with the AoA.
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This is just absurd. How many people do we need to ban to keep this kind of destructive nonsense off our board?