HO, front-quarter, or simply poor SA?

[Skyyr]

Your tactics "work", if score queening is your only goal. many of the players here aren't about score, per se, but about the FIGHT. You can check my score and ranking and see that they're average at best. The thing about it is, while I'm out there being average, I'm talking with people, finding great fights, whether in planes, bombers or gv's and having fun. If you find fun in taking advantage of people being chivalrous in game, it speaks volumes to what you're about in RL. What you do anonymously in a game is what lurks underneath the persona that you want people to see. I don't particularly want to get rule 4ed, but as I've said before, when ARS or USMC were in the fights you didn't win KOTS. Simon and crew did or nishi's squad did. I was a part of some of them. The Damned has a checkered past in FA, having participated is some dubious practices. You self aggrandizement is rather narcissistic, IMHO. Sorry Skuzzy, but he mentioned me by name..........

No worries - and my intent wasn't to call you out, but rather emphasize a point. No harm taken from your post, either.

Your post is a perfect example - you think this is a "persona" or something of sorts; that we somehow don't have fun, etc. What you fail to realize is that, both here and in FA, we played for one reason: teamwork and winning. This is an air combat game. Having friends, "having a blast," "talking with people," "being chivalrous," etc. - those are not the primary function of the game; those are your preferences (and, obviously, the preferences of a good number of people). That said, they are personal preferences and nothing more. We enjoy those things as well, but they are not our primary reason for playing and therefore we do not make our decisions based on those preferences. We, quite literally, have always made our decisions based on flying as an effective team.

Trying to tie some sort of moral superiority to yourself because we don't play by your rules isn't a flaw with me or with us, rather it's a serious fundamental error on your part, assuming that everyone should adapt and play by your rules. If you think we're here to gain respect or that we care about your priorities and preferences, you're gravely mistaken. That was our philosophy in FA and it's the same here. And it works. Heck, you should know - we destroyed AU repeatedly in KOTS (but you knew that already).

Also - we had less than 20 losses over 13 years. Again: less than 20. You seem to keep harping on a single point in time when two squads beat us, while conveniently ignoring that we actually beat them tens of times both previously and after. Just sayin'...

[Kruel]

Your tactics "work", if score queening is your only goal. many of the players here aren't about score, per se, but about the FIGHT. You can check my score and ranking and see that they're average at best. The thing about it is, while I'm out there being average, I'm talking with people, finding great fights, whether in planes, bombers or gv's and having fun. If you find fun in taking advantage of people being chivalrous in game, it speaks volumes to what you're about in RL. What you do anonymously in a game is what lurks underneath the persona that you want people to see. I don't particularly want to get rule 4ed, but as I've said before, when ARS or USMC were in the fights you didn't win KOTS. Simon and crew did or nishi's squad did. I was a part of some of them. The Damned has a checkered past in FA, having participated is some dubious practices. You self aggrandizement is rather narcissistic, IMHO. Sorry Skuzzy, but he mentioned me by name..........

Sorry, USMC nor ARS beat the Damned more than 5-6 Times, out of 200+ matches. Doesn't matter how you say it, nobody won more KOTS matches than the Damned, nobody. Did they lose sometimes? Yes, my hider squadron won KOTS (NxN), once, doesn't mean we were better than the Damned rofl.

[TonyJoey]

No worries - and my intent wasn't to call you out, but rather emphasize a point. No harm taken from your post, either.

This is an air combat game. Having friends, "having a blast," "talking with people," "being chivalrous," etc.

[Skyyr]

(Image removed from quote.)

Touche, sir. Touche...

[Copprhed]

Skyrr, you obviously missed my "point". How you play the game is how you live your life. You, as evidenced by your play, don't see any relevance in honor, or working to get a kill.. The majority in AH2 do. The majority in the world do. You have put yourself out for the world to examine, with your troll post. I'll leave the rest of the statement for your imagination.

[Skyyr]

Skyrr, you obviously missed my "point". How you play the game is how you live your life. You, as evidenced by your play, don't see any relevance in honor, or working to get a kill.. The majority in AH2 do. The majority in the world do. You have put yourself out for the world to examine, with your troll post. I'll leave the rest of the statement for your imagination.

Actually, I dare say that the majority of the world would mock someone for trying to explain the concept of honor in a video game based on numbers and winning, especially when the entire point of the game is determined based on score. Logically, that leaves you in the minority. But, then again, that's just logic.

[SkyRock]

Heya Skyrock,
I watched that video that skyyr posted........ I could plainly see a ki84plane ( player ) who was either busy in the real world or afk, and was flying straight ( perhaps on autopilot ? )

in which skyyr made a slight lead turn and took a right front quarter shot at the ki84 cowling................ as skyyr looked back , you see the ki84 eventually make an irratic maneuver as if they had just sit back down at their computer ( or rapidly grabbed their controller and yanked it to evade )

That is what I observed from the film...... Hell, I have been on both ends of that same type of engagement either being the one attacking a plane that is AFK( pilotless ) or being the one with the plane on autopilot and watching my plane being tore up by bullets as I am trying to sit back down at the PC.......... ROFL...




<S>
TC

I was just making the point of Skyrr constantly claiming "it's" not a HO, when he HO's at me about everytime I run in to him... of course while I am rolling out of his guns he sometimes gets a hit or two... and I'm sure if he shot me down that way he would claim "high deflection".. which would be completely dishonest.. that was my point...  I don't care if he HO's every body in AH everytime.. just leave the dishonest sanctimonious crap at the door..  

[Skyyr]

I was just making the point of Skyrr constantly claiming "it's" not a HO, when he HO's at me about everytime I run in to him... of course while I am rolling out of his guns he sometimes gets a hit or two... and I'm sure if he shot me down that way he would claim "high deflection".. which would be completely dishonest.. that was my point...  I don't care if he HO's every body in AH everytime.. just leave the dishonest sanctimonious crap at the door..  

You seem to imply that all forward shots are hot passes/head-ons/h2h/whatever - they, in fact, are not; and there is a reason there is different terminology.

You may dislike front-quarter shots - that's fine, simply don't call it a HO if you didn't have a guns solution when I pulled the trigger and I think we'll all get along just fine.

[nrshida]

...a video game based on numbers and winning, especially when the entire point of the game is determined based on score.

[ink]

(Image removed from quote.)

 


there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance.

[BnZs]

Incidentally BnZ I don't really know the full detail of what you eluded to earlier about an proposed set of guidelines because I've been rather busy lately. I think you were perhaps simply trying to make a point, but perhaps this discussion from a few months back will interest you. Certainly pertinent to this thread:-

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361074.0.html

I refer to this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362889.0.html, in which I propose a rule code to make the MA more the way many players SAY they want it to be, with enough enforcement teeth for these rules to actually MEAN something. Not a single player voted aye on it. So I'm a little vexed that anyone complains about HOs in the MA when *not a single player* AFAIK is willing to embrace an actual enforced rule against HOing in the MA.

It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.

Probably everyone opining on "cheap" tactics on this thread in fact, has done some of these things, and will do them again in the future

If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being?   To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.

So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film. OR, if you find these rules and their logical implications unacceptable, if you continue to endorse the MA being as it is through inaction if nothing else, then please do shut off the flow of mostly hypocritical horsedung about supposed fairness and honor or lack thereof, of both tactics and individuals. In particular, no individual can be considered dishonored for violating a rule they have not agreed to follow and which in reality is only an opinion/preference of some other vocal individual.

[BnZs]

there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance.

Indeed, I discovered this when I tried to inform you that two aircraft at the same speed and G load have exactly the same rate and radius of turn, and you "laughed" at me without so much as bothering to look it up. I continue to learn it every time you respond to a thought with a feeling. There is no formal Latin term for the fallacy of "argument via intuition", but I think you may be single-handedly creating the need for one.

[nrshida]

It's not ideology-The MA IS what it IS, random in how fair a chance you get, and virtually everyone in there will do everything in their power to make sure that you get an UNFAIR chance. I have been picked, double-teamed and flat ganged, and HO'd since day one, and continue to be whenever I allow it to happen. I have often had far maneuverable aircraft dive on my six, also a situation which doesn't really count as fair, yet no one bats an eye.

That's not the ideology to which I was,... ah nevermind 

If I out-turn a 190-A8 in an Fm2 because my machine turns better, no one has a problem with it. If he runs away, turns around and shoots me in the face coming back because he is faster has much greater firepower, then he is just an awful human being?   To me that sort of double-standard makes no sense in an arena where by design aircraft with all manner of different strengths and weaknesses clash constantly.

That's just rhetoric so people can satisfy immediate and pressing needs. Indeed you hear 'don't run' a lot but seldom 'stop turning!'. I think overall we can agree that BnZ is safer then TnB? That is reflected even in the progression of aircraft design & tactics I think. Hence it maybe being an obvious choice for those to whom score and winning is important. Cough.

So I make this challenge to the board: Accept my proposal for rules in the MA. Cold merges, 1v1s, no running, fights to the finish gentlemen, with these rules enforceable by temporary and permanent bans for violators caught on film.

Well that's a bit silly I think. I actually like the anarchic jungle-like state of the MA / DA (well the furball lake). I myself choose to try and be sportsmanlike, not to interrupt a 1 on 1, not to fire into the front quarter and to try to fight even better turners to the bitter end but I don't expect to convince others to share my values.

You are a very good stick by the way. I know you and respect your flying 

[Skyyr]

(Image removed from quote.)

I'll concede otherwise when you show me an MA map that was won based on "most honorable flying by X team," or a KOTH winner that was selected because they demonstrated the "best example of stylish flying yet!"

Like it or not, every mechanic of this game is either based on or measured by score and objectives. The pretense of honor and "a good all around time" taking precedence over these items is nothing more than a fantasy. Those who would argue otherwise are either delusional or simply do not care about playing the game as it was intended to be played. That is the truth of the matter, regardless of the general consensus. Arguing otherwise is akin to claiming the point of investing is not to end up with the most money, but rather to enjoy the thrill and excitement of making investments in and of themselves.

[Zerstorer]

there is no way to break down walls of self inducing ignorance... . as I continue to illustrate with every post.

Fixed!