Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Muzzy on August 11, 2014, 11:01:42 AM

Title: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Muzzy on August 11, 2014, 11:01:42 AM
Thanks to everyone who helped me iron out my Mustang problems. Thanks also to the guys at VF-17 for opening up their practice so I have the chance to learn the Hog.

That said, I'm interested in the 152 as it seems to be showing up more often in the MA. Any tips for flying this beast?
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Zoney on August 11, 2014, 11:17:35 AM
Yes I have a few.

Watch your speed.  Make sure you have easy access to trim so you can pull it out when it locks up.  It climbs well and has great WEP that recovers in half the time that it takes to use.  It takes 5 min. of cool down after you have used it for 10 min.  It doesn't roll nearly as well as other 190's with that huge wingspan.  Take it high and the only thing that can touch you is really the P47N or M, and they won't climb as fast and will run out of wep early.  Whenever possible keep your turns nice and smooth to retain E.  I think it's the best high altitude bomber killer in the game.  If you have the patience you can patrol the strats at 35K and just wait to pounce.  The guns are incredible and it holds 90 rounds of 30's.  Stuff blows up when you have guns on period.  Get ready to perfect your crossing shot and they won't survive long.  Try to have a neutral stick when you are firing.  Watch the landings, it's quite unstable.  Either land engine off or lock the tail gear by pulling back on the stick.  Be careful of collisions with those huge wings, give yourself some extra room.  Kill them all and land them!
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Stampf on August 11, 2014, 11:48:11 AM

Why do you want to fly the Ta152?  Because you see it more often?  Not a good reason.  There are no majik pills in this game.

Don't take that the wrong way...but I am just observing your jumping from airframe to airframe in such a small time period there is no way to becoming proficient in them.

Without a wall of text specific to the TA152...my best advise would be - learn the A-5 and D-9 first.

Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: FLS on August 11, 2014, 12:55:54 PM
The TA-152 has more adverse yaw than the other fighters. Add rudder to your roll.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: mbailey on August 11, 2014, 12:59:09 PM
Yes I have a few.

Watch your speed.  Make sure you have easy access to trim so you can pull it out when it locks up.  It climbs well and has great WEP that recovers in half the time that it takes to use.  It takes 5 min. of cool down after you have used it for 10 min.  It doesn't roll nearly as well as other 190's with that huge wingspan.  Take it high and the only thing that can touch you is really the P47N or M, and they won't climb as fast and will run out of wep early.  Whenever possible keep your turns nice and smooth to retain E.  I think it's the best high altitude bomber killer in the game.  If you have the patience you can patrol the strats at 35K and just wait to pounce.  The guns are incredible and it holds 90 rounds of 30's.  Stuff blows up when you have guns on period.  Get ready to perfect your crossing shot and they won't survive long.  Try to have a neutral stick when you are firing.  Watch the landings, it's quite unstable.  Either land engine off or lock the tail gear by pulling back on the stick.  Be careful of collisions with those huge wings, give yourself some extra room.  Kill them all and land them!

Intresting write up Zoney....glad i dont fly buffs...and if I did, im glad were both on the same team.... :D :aok
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: JunkyII on August 11, 2014, 01:02:08 PM
If you feel the slightest "slide" happening slam that stick forward :aok

Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Muzzy on August 11, 2014, 02:14:01 PM
Why do you want to fly the Ta152?  Because you see it more often?  Not a good reason.  There are no majik pills in this game.

Don't take that the wrong way...but I am just observing your jumping from airframe to airframe in such a small time period there is no way to becoming proficient in them.

Without a wall of text specific to the TA152...my best advise would be - learn the A-5 and D-9 first.



I'm already reasonably competent in the D9 and A5, but I have a specific standard that I like to fly to with regards to different airframes. I'm satisfied with being able to land multiple kills in the mustang and in not feeling like I'm going to get shot down every time I take the bird up. In the past month of flying it, I went from pretty much accepting the fact that I was going to die in a Mustang to the point where I feel I can fly it with a reasonable chance of success, and that's good enough for me. I *could* fly it for a year and learn it really well, but that's not what I'm interested in. What I am interested in is learning how each of these planes fly and getting comfortable in flying them. I find the challenge of flying these different airframes to be more interesting that simply sticking to one bird, and that's kind of how I want to spend my 15 bucks. :)
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Stampf on August 11, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
I'm already reasonably competent in the D9 and A5, but I have a specific standard that I like to fly to with regards to different airframes. I'm satisfied with being able to land multiple kills in the mustang and in not feeling like I'm going to get shot down every time I take the bird up. In the past month of flying it, I went from pretty much accepting the fact that I was going to die in a Mustang to the point where I feel I can fly it with a reasonable chance of success, and that's good enough for me. I *could* fly it for a year and learn it really well, but that's not what I'm interested in. What I am interested in is learning how each of these planes fly and getting comfortable in flying them. I find the challenge of flying these different airframes to be more interesting that simply sticking to one bird, and that's kind of how I want to spend my 15 bucks. :)

Cc. all.

Very good.  Well all of the above is good advise.  Stick forward in a slip and neutral elevator upon landing and taxi.  Lock the tail wheel down.

Turns better than a D-9 but not as fast, and lacking the roll rate.  A very fun bird to fly.  Guns are devastating.

G' luck with her.

 
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: glzsqd on August 12, 2014, 12:02:27 AM

Remember to always Burn your aft tank before getting into a fight. Planes that you need to watch out for are F4U's and P-47s. Both of these planes can Dive and zoom climb with the 152 as well as out run it at typical MA altitudes. The F4U is especially dangerous because of its comparable Rudder and effective flaps.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: BaldEagl on August 12, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Take it high and the only thing that can touch you is really the P47N or M

Or a Spit XIV or a Spit IX, both of which are designed for high alt (over 23K and 21K respectively).  You could probably run away from the Spit IX but would be less likely to do so with the XIV.  Turning with the IX over 20K will lead to a quick death.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Warmongo on August 12, 2014, 10:56:10 AM
Cc. all.

Very good.  Well all of the above is good advise.  Stick forward in a slip and neutral elevator upon landing and taxi.  Lock the tail wheel down.

Turns better than a D-9 but not as fast, and lacking the roll rate.  A very fun bird to fly.  Guns are devastating.

G' luck with her.

 

I found the Ta-152 the hardest to fly of the German fighters. Dangerous in a steep dive and at landing. Was landing several kills and I found myself stalling backwards right before touchdown.  Please explain how you lock the tail wheel down.  I didn't think you could do that in Aces High. :headscratch:

I still enjoy flying it and blowing up stuff, literally. :devil
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: FLS on August 12, 2014, 11:29:06 AM
When you are on the ground holding the stick back locks the tail wheel.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Warmongo on August 12, 2014, 11:33:02 AM
When you are on the ground holding the stick back locks the tail wheel.

Thank you! Does that work with other planes too?  :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
Thank you! Does that work with other planes too?  :salute

Yes.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Wiley on August 12, 2014, 12:59:00 PM
All of the above applies, one thing I'd re-emphasize is on landing be really careful to be gentle on the rudder.  Slow for landing it's really easy to get it to depart flight with heavy rudder.  It can ruin a successful sortie in the most frustrating of ways.

Wiley.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Cremator on August 15, 2014, 09:39:55 AM
I am by no means an expert but as of recent ive been playing with the 152 and I love it. I will not consider engaging a plane, unless I'm forced or board, in it until I have the alt, preferably over 20k. Although it will get up in the clouds and go ive found that it has a liking for the ground, meaning it tends to fly that way. Keep it fast, keep it high. I rarely ever go inverted in it because, in my opinion, it seems to "fall out" and become slower.

I saw up above here where you posted you enjoy learning the different airframes and how they perform. I too enjoy doing the same and its one of the key aspects that make this game so enjoyable.

Good luck with them all!
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 10:30:44 AM
When you are on the ground holding the stick back locks the tail wheel.
Does the game modeling physically lock the tail wheel with the stick back so it doesn't swivel on the ground?
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Warmongo on August 15, 2014, 10:44:32 AM
Does the game modeling physically lock the tail wheel with the stick back so it doesn't swivel on the ground?

That's been my question all along. Like in DCS? :headscratch:
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: deadstikmac on August 15, 2014, 10:56:46 AM
Be advised sir.

The tail will "slide" out from underneath you during turn fighting if you are not careful. To recover from it I have found it is the same as in the Ki84... I turn my engine off and nose down once in a recovery position I turn my engine back on quickly.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: deadstikmac on August 15, 2014, 10:58:46 AM
I think it when turning hard in a flat turn and then suddenly pitch up... The wings "blanket" the tail.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
The problem of "stalling backwards" before landing and locking the tail wheel with the stick back are a bit contradictory and confusing.  Maybe there is some improper terminology in use.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 11:02:44 AM
I think it when turning hard in a flat turn and then suddenly pitch up... The wings "blanket" the tail.
It's more likely that there is a stall with out of coordinated controls resulting in a spin entry.

Be advised sir.

 To recover from it I have found it is the same as in the Ki84... I turn my engine off and nose down once in a recovery position I turn my engine back on quickly.

Have you tried just pulling power to idle and using proper flight control input to recover?  Shutting the engine down isn't an acceptable recovery option (real world) because there's a very real possibility of it not restarting.  Of course, we don't have that issue in game.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: deadstikmac on August 15, 2014, 11:04:34 AM
Naw Puma... I was not talking about the "locking of tail wheel on or during landing"

I was referring to "during combat"





On landing the reason for the back pressure is to apply more force to the tail wheels. Which is what you guys are currently asking about.

As far as I know I have never heard of a "wheel lock" in the controls of aces high.


 :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: The Fugitive on August 15, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Does the game modeling physically lock the tail wheel with the stick back so it doesn't swivel on the ground?

From what I feel, yes the wheel is locked so it doesn't swivel freely as long as you hold back pressure on the stick. I drive each the hog around with ease like that.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Cremator on August 15, 2014, 11:38:32 AM
Ive noticed that the 152 is pretty squirrely on the ground, more so than others, regardless of any control surface inputs. When I'm landing it I have to slip it in and hit one wheel first. Its a booger to land right now for me.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: deadstikmac on August 15, 2014, 12:06:59 PM
Have you tried just pulling power to idle and using proper flight control input to recover?

Yes sir when alt allows  :pray

I for some reason never went over 15k when I did fly the 152 and also like to stall fight on the deck no matter what I am in. :bhead

So at 5k and in a nasty backwards falling stall, is when I find this happening.

 :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: FLS on August 15, 2014, 12:40:20 PM
Does the game modeling physically lock the tail wheel with the stick back so it doesn't swivel on the ground?

Not sure what you mean by "physically" but when your stick is fully back your tail wheel is locked not swiveling. The tail wheel is also modeled with more friction perpendicular with direction than it has in real life to make takes offs and landings easier. You can see this as increased braking when you land and wiggle the tail wheel on the ground.

Be advised sir.

The tail will "slide" out from underneath you during turn fighting if you are not careful. To recover from it I have found it is the same as in the Ki84... I turn my engine off and nose down once in a recovery position I turn my engine back on quickly.

The tail seems to slide because the rising wing in a roll has more drag and this is more noticeable with the longer wings. This is called adverse yaw. You need to coordinate with rudder as Puma mentioned to correct it.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Warmongo on August 15, 2014, 02:25:23 PM
The problem of "stalling backwards" before landing and locking the tail wheel with the stick back are a bit contradictory and confusing.  Maybe there is some improper terminology in use.

Yes, improper terminology, my bad. What I "see" (meaning is all subjective) is when flying too slow for landing and still with wings level, the tails drops and stall happens. It "feels" like flying backwards. Does that make sense? Too low to recover, then crash.

I just come in faster now.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: BnZs on August 15, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
Not sure what you mean by "physically" but when your stick is fully back your tail wheel is locked not swiveling. The tail wheel is also modeled with more friction perpendicular with direction than it has in real life to make takes offs and landings easier. You can see this as increased braking when you land and wiggle the tail wheel on the ground.


Heh...I remember one night in the WWI arena, Hitech turned on low-altitude crosswinds. I know what to expect from those flying weather-vanes, so I wasn't unduly shocked myself.  :D
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Gman on August 15, 2014, 03:35:25 PM
The 152 is great for working on improving your aim IMO.  It doesn't have so much nose bounce, but nose "float".  You have to really focus at certain airspeeds, trim settings, and attitudes to keep the dot on target.  When you do connect it's usually a kill, or at least major damage vs fighters.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Babalonian on August 15, 2014, 04:22:00 PM
All of the above applies, one thing I'd re-emphasize is on landing be really careful to be gentle on the rudder.  Slow for landing it's really easy to get it to depart flight with heavy rudder.  It can ruin a successful sortie in the most frustrating of ways.

Wiley.

To clarify - long and straight landing approaches, not too fast BUT also not too slow.  You will need to brake to stop, but go easy on the brakes and rudder until your at taxiing speed or you'll easily ground loop.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 04:24:28 PM
Yes, improper terminology, my bad. What I "see" (meaning is all subjective) is when flying too slow for landing and still with wings level, the tails drops and stall happens. It "feels" like flying backwards. Does that make sense? Too low to recover, then crash.

I just come in faster now.

From your description, it's sounds like too slow of an approach speed resulting in a stall or high descent rate and you have fixed that now with a higher approach speed.  What approach speed do you use now?  Flying too fast of an approach speed can cause problems with bounces or more commonly referred to as "crow hopping".
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Babalonian on August 15, 2014, 04:29:21 PM
That's been my question all along. Like in DCS? :headscratch:

I honestly don't know but I'm up to experiment a little, something like:
Take the pony, taxi it up to ~20mph.  Stick back, throttle off, hard right brake and rudder, observe.  Do the same again, but this time stick forward.  

Yes, improper terminology, my bad. What I "see" (meaning is all subjective) is when flying too slow for landing and still with wings level, the tails drops and stall happens. It "feels" like flying backwards. Does that make sense? Too low to recover, then crash.

I just come in faster now.

Landing mustangs slow is bad.  One shared characteristic in the game with 190s, if you go for forcing a 3point, you're going to bounce on the runway
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 04:30:43 PM
Yes sir when alt allows  :pray

I for some reason never went over 15k when I did fly the 152 and also like to stall fight on the deck no matter what I am in. :bhead

So at 5k and in a nasty backwards falling stall, is when I find this happening.

 :salute
Next time you find yourself in that predicament, try pulling power (don't shut the engine off), using a boot full of rudder, and keep the ailerons neutral.  This tends to work well for me and with practice allows for a quick nose reversal and roll to bring the nose to bear on my opponent.  :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 04:33:23 PM
Not sure what you mean by "physically" but when your stick is fully back your tail wheel is locked not swiveling.
I better word would have been "intentionally". 
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 05:05:05 PM
Landing mustangs slow is bad.  One shared characteristic in the game with 190s, if you go for forcing a 3point, you're going to bounce on the runway
What he said.  Out in the real world this can be the end result:

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/00bf6f4d7d245d1d193e69f6faed9b4c_zps8796b669.jpg)

Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Zoney on August 15, 2014, 05:14:12 PM
FYI, I land this bird with engine off, 2 notches of flaps, wait for it to almost stop before releasing the brakes and then if i am going to re-arm I fire up the engine again while it is slowly coasting.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: FLS on August 15, 2014, 05:21:10 PM
A better word would have been "intentionally". 

Yes, it's intended to engage the tail wheel lock.   :aok
I haven't noticed if you need to roll forward to straighten the wheel before you lock it. I'll have to check that next time.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: BaldEagl on August 15, 2014, 07:42:33 PM
Does the game modeling physically lock the tail wheel with the stick back so it doesn't swivel on the ground?

Yes, in all planes with tail wheels.  Using rudder while it's locked will allow for slight heading adjustments but after (or before) taxiing you'll want to release the lock to turn to the rearm pad, hanger, another runway, etc.

The best landing is to just pull the stick back the rest of the way as soon as possible to lock the tail wheel after touchdown.

I haven't flown the 152 in a long time but I remember it and the F4U's had a tendency to want to loop on landing.  I do fly the F6F a lot and trying this landing in the F6F lifts the tailwheel off the ground as you apply brakes causing the plane to loop, but only typically 30 degrees or less.  I suspect the same thing is happening with the other two in varying degrees.  Regardless I haven't had any trouble landing in any of them in years but it's always something I'm cognizant of.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 15, 2014, 07:45:34 PM
I tried the 152 out in the offline.  The tail wheel does lock with the stick aft.  With the stick forward, the tail wheel swivels and the aircraft turns nicely.

Also, landing both with full fuel and 25% and full flaps, it lands well with a final approach speed of 90 - 100, the power at idle, and a flare to a three point landing.  With the stick full aft on the three point, it stays on the runway and no bounce, stall, etc.   It builds speed quickly even configured for landing.   Careful airspeed control will result in a smooth, controllable landing.   :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Warmongo on August 18, 2014, 02:11:49 PM
I usually flare at 100 knots with 2-3 notches of flap. That stall only happened once on landing and once flying low and slow over the water. I'm just pointing it out because you get very little warning.  :frown:
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: The Fugitive on August 18, 2014, 05:27:50 PM
What is this "holy grail" called LANDING that tho dost speak of? 
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: mthrockmor on August 18, 2014, 05:41:42 PM
When you get into a tail slide drop your gear. It is about the only way to get out, and can be done in 2-3k or so. The better sticks get out of that tail slide in shorter alt, or so they say.

With the gear going down, you are dead.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: xPoisonx on August 27, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
I'd like to add in although many say it is only good for high altitude, it is an exceptional vertical fighter at low speeds. In low speed loops it gains a lot of speed on the downhill and keeps it going up, the rudder control at stall speed lets you flip it around to get shots even if you aren't flying in that direction. Fools a lot of spits and Las.
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: bustr on August 27, 2014, 05:31:55 PM
This is the politest description for using the rudder to snap back into a HO I've ever read.....
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: morfiend on August 27, 2014, 06:02:09 PM
Just for clairification the tail wheel will lock with about 25% back pressure.  You can test this yourself quite easy,just pull back on stick and apply rudder then throttle up alittle,you will notice a slight turn but not much,now release the stick and watch the nose start to swing.

  If you try this you will notice that you dont need "full" back pressure on the stick to look the tail wheel but you do need some. IIRC this is done to make it easier to land.


  For anyone having difficulties landing,try landing with autolevel on,you will need to control throttle to control rate of desent,it's not easy but if you line up correctly and use throttle properly you will be able to land in that configuration in no time!


    :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 27, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
Morf, "full" back pressure is used out in reality to pin the tail wheel to the ground with down force, resulting in positive control during ground ops, takeoff, and landing.   Of course, there are exceptions due to the human nature of pilots.  An in between position of the stick in a taildragger on the ground is an invitation for a bad day.

Landing with the auto pilot?  Since this is a "pilot" based game, anyone with landing issues would be well served to get with one of our great trainers and work out the basics of flight and using them to land.  Depending on the auto pilot defeats the purpose of flying and will surely hamper one's abilities when moving on to more advanced maneuvers.   :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: morfiend on August 28, 2014, 01:32:23 PM
Morf, "full" back pressure is used out in reality to pin the tail wheel to the ground with down force, resulting in positive control during ground ops, takeoff, and landing.   Of course, there are exceptions due to the human nature of pilots.  An in between position of the stick in a taildragger on the ground is an invitation for a bad day.

Landing with the auto pilot?  Since this is a "pilot" based game, anyone with landing issues would be well served to get with one of our great trainers and work out the basics of flight and using them to land.  Depending on the auto pilot defeats the purpose of flying and will surely hamper one's abilities when moving on to more advanced maneuvers.   :salute


  Puma,


  It's just an exercise,it will teacher a player to use throttle to control rate of decent.

  If you enable auto level the only way a plane will drop is to control the throttle. I often get players to try this to learn to control throttle and not use the joystick as most do. Once they understand this it's easy to hold some back pressure to lock the tail wheel.


  BTW I landed a ww1 crate last night while PW and blacked out,I did have some help and came too in time to pull up and avoid the trees but blacked out just before touch down.  I was even missing a wheel but was able to get it down slow enough to not explode,I had to wait till the blackout ended before I knew what exactly happened.


   Gamey,you bet but it's a game so why not!    If I didnt practice auto level landings I would have never pulled that off!



    :salute
Title: Re: so I want to fly the TA 152
Post by: Puma44 on August 28, 2014, 02:20:58 PM

  Puma,


  It's just an exercise,it will teacher a player to use throttle to control rate of decent.

  If you enable auto level the only way a plane will drop is to control the throttle. I often get players to try this to learn to control throttle and not use the joystick as most do. Once they understand this it's easy to hold some back pressure to lock the tail wheel.


  BTW I landed a ww1 crate last night while PW and blacked out,I did have some help and came too in time to pull up and avoid the trees but blacked out just before touch down.  I was even missing a wheel but was able to get it down slow enough to not explode,I had to wait till the blackout ended before I knew what exactly happened.


   Gamey,you bet but it's a game so why not!    If I didnt practice auto level landings I would have never pulled that off!



    :salute

Good on ya with the kite!

In GA flying there's an interesting exercise that a lot of instructors introduce.  It is simulating a jammed elevator.  This requires the pilot to use trim and power to control pitch while flying a simulated landing pattern at altitude.  It's a good workout and similar to what you describe, also a good workout.   :salute