Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mikev on August 11, 2014, 02:00:18 PM
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with the skill level in this game and me now entering my 4 month playing and starting to feel comfortable flying i run into this question . i have been told hos are bad and show no skill so i dont even if the odds are against me. as of late im getting tired of being mr nice guy. last night with 3 against me alone i tun into a fight knowing the odds and the first guy hoes me and i have no chance to work on my skills. so afterwards i send a pm hey dont you have any skill? with the learning curve as high as it is i think its time to stand up against these score hungry chest beaters. or should i forget what i have been told and just play cutthroat because it sure is getting frustrating.
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Hehe, the people who usually try to get others not to HO are the first ones that do it. Do what you want bud, no matter what someone will find a way to complain about it. I love it when I win them and shrug em off when I don't.
You will find that some folks playing this game excel at complaining.
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Only HO noob uber turns planes, KI-43, A6Ms, and brews, and 262s first pass. That is, unless you are in a mossie, then HO away! I try not to HO, but if someone HOs me, next pass I'm holding down the trigger. Just my thoughts .
:salute
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hmmm, how to answer this question.
I have had different feelings about the HO over my almost 2yrs on my 2nd AH career. I HATE them, they are lame and seriously a waste of both individuals time. Some seem to be just fine with wasting their time though.
It depends on the bird I'm in and the situation I've put myself in for me to make the decision to avoid, pretend to avoid, go guns blazing or give a feint with some pepper to fool.
Cannon birds are a bad choice to try to HO if you have 50's; vice versa. To make matters worse, there are some sticks good enough to give a HO attempt and still make a decent acm to your disadvantages.
Bottom line is you need to make the decision for yourself and all situations are different, in one instance may not apply to another.
Some are going to tell you they are completely avoidable and takes two to HO; nonsense. When you are engaged with multiples, it only takes one determined (paraphrased from Dolby) HO'r to ruin it.
If I see someone make the effort to point their nose right at me instead of set up a post merge move, then I begin to make different decisions.
Don't HO though, I think it only begets more.
:salute
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If you open the fight with a HO against me, then the fights over and I just fly away, heck, I figure you didn't want a fight anyway, you just wanted a kill at all costs. I've got no interest in playing chicken. If we are in a fight and you HO, the first one I chalk down as a mistake or just bad timing, the second one, fights over and I just fly away. I'm in no hurry to get a kill and don't care what my kill per hour is, so I understand this option is not for everyone.
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HO's are frowned upon because they're basically a coin toss as to who will win. I don't know what your definition of fun is, but flipping coins isn't it for me.
Some HO's you can't avoid, but most you can. Work to avoid them, but if you must, HO away. Just make sure you let the other guy fire first so you can put up a video on YouTube. That's what cool kids do.
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Some advice,
HOing is never a good idea. Against an opponent who knows that they are doing, they will always gain the advantage if they see you are about to go for the HO shot. So what you need to do is nose down to the left or right of the enemy as they are coming near you. When they are about to shoot for the HO pull up and do an emmal (half loop) and you can possibly gain their 6 . there is a lot to explain but I'm at work at the moment. Basically, you can avoid their HO and gain the advantage by performing this trick. It will give you a slight head start when engaging in the fight. Once you learn how to use ailerons better you can flop a bit to make it harder for them to hit you. And you won't have to worry about getting shot in the face.
Once you get good at this you will be able to dodge 98% of HOs while also getting a jump for the advantage.
If you get really pissed though, up a 190a8 with full gun loadout and go on a HO rampage and just HO every freaking plane you see. That's always fun!
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Avoid if at all possible, but it will happen on occasion. You are just as likely to be damaged or destroyed as the person making up the other side of the Head On pass. Never merge nose to nose. Offset your plane left/right/up/down from the plane you are merging with and most Head On situations are eliminated.
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3 great reasons not to HO:
#1 Often your opponents insistence on trying get a gun solution at the merge allows you to set yourself up an advantage after the merge.
#2 The amount of white knuckle, sweaty palm fights that never happen because they ended at the merge with a HO shot is a tragedy.
#3 Winning one is lame, losing one is lame.
There is a time and place for the HO shot. He already HOed you, you're way outnumbered and wounded, you're in a bomber or you had a bad day and need to HO the piss outta somethin' because it beats punching a hole in the drywall again.
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In general I avoid nose-on-nose shots because it its a stupid way to fight i.e. because its dumb to let your opponant have a chance to shoot back at you.
Unless, of course, you are dumb enough to point your nose at me and I'm in a 110. I consider taking these shots a community education service.
Other front quarter shots are valid but frowned upon by the community. It's best to avoid these. They tend to generate ch200 whinefests, "Yo mama so ugly..." jokes, cause liver damage, rapid ear / nose hair growth, and a host of other ailments.
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I generally agree with the comments that have been made above. In my experience, 98% of HO shots can be avoided, as stated above. But I do think there is some skill in a HO encounter and it's not just a 50-50 coin toss. You have to know how to minimize risk while maximizing payoff, avoid colliding, aim and lead the shot well, and set yourself up for the next maneuver after the merge.
Although I personally don't get as mad as others when someone tries to HO me (fighter pilots in WWII, after all, wouldn't cry foul when their enemies employed this historical tactic) I do avoid using it myself as a courtesy to other players. I will HO, though, under certain circumstances:
- When my wingman (or squadmate) is in imminent danger of being shot down
- After the merge when the fight has already been under way for a while, especially when...
- I am losing all other advantages in a fight (i.e. on the deck and am beset by multiple opponents)
What do you guys think of my "exceptions" to the no-HO rule?
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I was only afraid of those spits who did not ho.
It might ring a bell.
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One mans ho is another mans acute frontal attack!
First we need to define what a ho is,personally I hate the term and call it a John Wayne merge,where you both come in guns blazing. While it's not to difficult to avoid getting shot in the face at the merge,most just fly their gunsight at the other guy. After the merge I will take any shot that is presented!
It's been explained already how to avoid so I wont go into that but to the OP,if you have a shot take it,if the enemy goes down and send a pm to rant,kindly reply that you cant hear them because they are in the tower! :rofl :rofl :rofl
:salute
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when in doubt ho. when you are sure ho. when you arent sure then dont ho as he got the advantage on you.
semp
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One mans ho is another mans acute frontal attack!
First we need to define what a ho is,
I always have gone by "both opponents have gun solution on each other"
in which case, it is a stupid attack because basically a gamble.
some people whine to another degree and consider any shot from in front of their 3/9 line a ho.. I disagree.
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Planes that mimic my attempts to avoid a HO, I'm talking from 1.5 when I dive they dive and when I climb they climb as well. I assume they're lining up for a HO and I shoot first. When I'm outnumbered, or flying a 110/Mossi as well.
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I always have gone by "both opponents have gun solution on each other"
in which case, it is a stupid attack because basically a gamble.
some people whine to another degree and consider any shot from in front of their 3/9 line a ho.. I disagree.
Indeed! I agree also,setting up a crossing shot that happens to be from a frontal aspic is not a HO!
This is why I said first we have to define what exactly is a ho, which I refer to as the JW merge and as you said is a huge gamble I'm not willing to take. That said a whiley vet can use the ho to get an advantage but that's another topic and I dont care to discuss it for the sake of my sanity!
:salute
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Many consider the front qtr shot to not be a HO. What about the fact that the one that got HO'd could have HO'd and the front qtr shot was the result of the HO'd trying to maneuver out of the HO. That is almost always when it happens to me. I consider that a HO because I could have kept nose on and and gone HO but chose not to and manuevered.
I guess I see it different than many because I've been told so... :rolleyes:
A true cartoon pilot front qtr legitimate shot imo is if I could not have maneuvered enough to get guns on.
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Many consider the front qtr shot to not be a HO. What about the fact that the one that got HO'd could have HO'd and the front qtr shot was the result of the HO'd trying to maneuver out of the HO. That is almost always when it happens to me. I consider that a HO because I could have kept nose on and and gone HO but chose not to and manuevered.
I guess I see it different than many because I've been told so... :rolleyes:
A true cartoon pilot front qtr legitimate shot imo is if I could not have maneuvered enough to get guns on.
Or if you were moving away and gave it up.
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We are all responsible for staying out of the gunsights of our enemies. Failure to do so is our failure regardless of the direction our plane is facing.
Wiley.
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We are all responsible for staying out of the gunsights of our enemies. Failure to do so is our failure regardless of the direction our plane is facing.
Well said!
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the people who usually try to get others not to HO are the first ones that do it
Not true.
People who COMPLAIN about being HO'd are often the ones doing it themselves (and why they are getting HO'd back).
The people who ADVOCATE and TEACH other players to avoid HO's are ones that understand it requires MORE SKILL to fly and get kills WITHOUT going for the nose to nose shot at every opportunity.
The fact that this topic comes up every few months, year after year, indicates that these two points are true. There are (and always will be) players who will fly to take the (easier) HO shot and there are (and always will be) players who prefer to challenge themselves by flying to a shot from behind the 3/9 line.
You get to choose which you want to be.
<S>
Ryno
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I don't HO, unless of course you are in a high parked aircraft (Tempest, 262, B29) then I am doing whatever it takes. Why? Because people do it to me whenever I am in them. :old:
Now the people that really urke are the ones who yell "It was a front quarter blah blah shot" :rofl In other words, it was me avoiding the HO a little too late and you holding the trigger because you were going to HO whether I moved or not. Don't make an excuse for you HO'ing, if you were going to HO just say that don't try to come up with some lame Trigonometry/Geometry term to explain your suckage.
The HO shot is a 50/50 gamble, and I just so happened to have terrible luck.
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We are all responsible for staying out of the gunsights of our enemies. Failure to do so is our failure regardless of the direction our plane is facing.
Wiley.
Perfect logic, and very nicely worded indeed.
Regards
Badboy
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To me a "HO" is any shot taken on a head on merge. Personally I don't fire if I happen to get in a head on merge. I work to avoid getting into that situation as much as possible. Like posted above, if your not in their guns they cant shoot you. However, it happen, especially when the fight turns in to 3 on 1. I still prefer to NOT pull the trigger in a head on merge. I want to fight my way out and get my kills by working toward a good guns solution.
So its all up to you. After a few beers and every engagement starting with the other guy trying to HO you if my look like a better deal :devil
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I try not to initiate a HO but if you come in my gun-sights, the trigger will be pulled. If you feel a higher calling to not fire then thank you for the kill.
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The HO that you can see is simpler to deal with than the one you can't. You fly differently on the merge if it appears no HO is forth coming. Seems lately a cadre of players has taken to turning off tracers to take advantage of that tendency.
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I always have gone by "both opponents have gun solution on each other"
in which case, it is a stupid attack because basically a gamble.
some people whine to another degree and consider any shot from in front of their 3/9 line a ho.. I disagree.
This I agree with....no gun solution for one...no ho... :old:
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Sometimes it good to get them to shoot. This way you know for a fact you can get the jump advantage during the emmilmen.
Once you get under their nose to the left or right. Roll your ailerons a bit. They will almost always miss.
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I am fairly new to aces high, only played a month. This is my first flight sim were planes have icons(whether friendly or enemy) . Been flying Sims for 8 years just never came across aces high and/or never took it as a serious ww2 combat sim option. But the problem of ho'ing only exists in flight games were there r icons. In my month of flying I have had more ho opportunities/ people ho'ing me than it ears of flying Sims without icons. When there are no icons and distance indicators, ho'ing is a really rare occurance due to many factors such as the other r person not seeing u approach or the added factor of identifying the craft and then little time to shoot. I don't remember the last time I head on'ed someone in il2 bos/1946 or even Wt simulator battles
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We are all responsible for staying out of the gunsights of our enemies. Failure to do so is our failure regardless of the direction our plane is facing.
This is sig worthy.
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This is sig worthy.
my very thoughts.as soon as I figure out how
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I'll never HO you on the first pass unless your in a 262. However if you HO me on the first pass all bets are off :D
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To the OP ... the choice is yours....these days it is a ho or be ho'd arena... always did have the take any and all shot players however, there were a larger majority who preferred to make a go of it...unfortunately this player is now the minority and it is getting more and more gunho..... this is the game you are playing now..many others here had a different start to aces but they a falling away now..... so i guess I'm saying...Ho your little heart out and don't get slow...ensure you have a good head of steam so as to get away and reset... a bit cynical you say... too freakin right.... I am losing my game...
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Sorry wiley that's the best I can do for quote Sig..I don't know how you did it with the quote and link with your sigs
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I'm going to say "to ho", just to piss people off. :D
That being said, Would it be considered a ho if I were to fly in a manner that allows me to kick hard rudder (meaning I MUST use hard rudder in order to get a shot on him) at the last second and peg him? :headscratch:
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Building your own fly rod, hiking into a remote river and catching a native trout with a hand tied fly is rewarding and fun. Ordering a filet-o-fish sandwich at the drive through is just the first step in making a turd.
If you end fights with a HO you are stealing from yourself.
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Oops double post.
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Building your own fly rod, hiking into a remote river and catching a native trout with a hand tied fly is rewarding and fun. Ordering a filet-o-fish sandwich at the drive through is just the first step in making a turd.
If you end fights with a HO you are stealing from yourself.
WoW!!
The Piggy Laureate of Pigs on the Wing.........
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See Rule #4
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Building your own fly rod, hiking into a remote river and catching a native trout with a hand tied fly is rewarding and fun. Ordering a filet-o-fish sandwich at the drive through is just the first step in making a turd.
If you end fights with a HO you are stealing from yourself.
Exceptionally eloquent ending with a repulsive thought. That was nicely done, bravo :rofl
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I say HO away. Never mind that 99.9% of the people who cry about it can't tell the difference between an actual head-on (mutually-assured destruction) vs. a front-quarter shot (shooting someone from the front, but without risk of them being able to hit you due to their angle); rather, HO'ing brings out your opponent's true character and deepest emotions. It shows the difference between those that play to have fun and those that have some sort of deep-seated emotional investment tied to their losses.
For example, this past Saturday there was a rather poor P-47 pilot who came at me from below. Knowing his speed was too high, I pointed my nose inside of his projected flight path and waited. He pulled into me, allowing for a clean shot to the inboard side of his nose/wing root. Never mind that he didn't have a shot, or that he was being chased by numerous other aircraft, a Fugitive from justice as it were, and would have certainly died; no, he decided to spend the next 5 minutes raging on 200 about a "HO," as if that somehow validated his choices post-death.
I say HO to your heart's content and never look back!
Or it might show that they are getting really freaking tired of climbing to alt ~8mins flying to target ~3-5 only to be downed by a HO, repeat that once or twice and boom, customer lost. Even some of the long time heroes are sick of it and the new AH attitude of kill/score is the most important thing.
Skill is to be admired; k/d and gamey maneuver don't mean caca.
I see you speak of it quite a bit yourself.
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I say HO away. Never mind that 99.9% of the people who cry about it can't tell the difference between an actual head-on (mutually-assured destruction) vs. a front-quarter shot (shooting someone from the front, but without risk of them being able to hit you due to their angle); rather, HO'ing brings out your opponent's true character and deepest emotions. It shows the difference between those that play to have fun and those that have some sort of deep-seated emotional investment tied to their losses.
For example, this past Saturday there was a rather poor P-47 pilot who came at me from below. Knowing his speed was too high, I pointed my nose inside of his projected flight path and waited. He pulled into me, allowing for a clean shot to the inboard side of his nose/wing root. Never mind that he didn't have a shot, or that he was being chased by numerous other aircraft, a Fugitive from justice as it were, and would have certainly died; no, he decided to spend the next 5 minutes raging on 200 about a "HO," as if that somehow validated his choices post-death.
I say HO to your heart's content and never look back!
Wow hahahaa..... just so much win
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if you want to ho, go ahead and ho. Some ties I ho back other times I don't. Brewsters always get ho'd.
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Never mind that 99.9% of the people who cry about it can't tell the difference between an actual head-on (mutually-assured destruction) vs. a front-quarter shot (shooting someone from the front, but without risk of them being able to hit you due to their angle);
:rofl
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Or it might show that they are getting really freaking tired of climbing to alt ~8mins flying to target ~3-5 only to be downed by a HO, repeat that once or twice and boom, customer lost. Even some of the long time heroes are sick of it and the new AH attitude of kill/score is the most important thing.
Skill is to be admired; k/d and gamey maneuver don't mean caca.
I see you speak of it quite a bit yourself.
I've always enjoyed the fights with this guy and Tongs. Always. Lotsa respect fellas.
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Some advice,
Basically, you can avoid their HO and gain the advantage by performing this trick.
Study this, Know this, Live this.
(https://kijubi.blob.core.windows.net/product-images/12562/5a786a6199a64ce6a1ebf354fb7499fc)
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Study this, Know this, Live this.
(https://kijubi.blob.core.windows.net/product-images/12562/5a786a6199a64ce6a1ebf354fb7499fc)
:headscratch:
Um... Playing with plastic airplanes? :confused:
:D
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or should i forget what i have been told and just play cutthroat because it sure is getting frustrating.
Do whatever pleases you. As this thread once again demonstrates, some people get the most enjoyment out of building their kill scores, while others live for the thrill of an extended fight, regardless of who wins. There is no "right way." If you find yourself defining a head-on so narrowly that you can justify virtually any front-quarter shot; if you start reciting examples of real WWII pilots taking head-on shots; if you wake up in the middle of the night screaming "It's MY $14.95;" then these may be signs you are in the first group. Nothing wrong with that at all, and you can enjoy a long AH career having fun that way. Simply ignore the raised eyebrows, contemptuous stares or other signs of scorn from the second group, and all will be well.
- oldman
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hmmm, how to answer this question.
It depends on the bird I'm in and the situation I've put myself in for me to make the decision to avoid, pretend to avoid, go guns blazing or give a feint with some pepper to fool.
Bottom line is you need to make the decision for yourself and all situations are different, in one instance may not apply to another.
Agreed. I fly a mossy in probably about 95% of sorties but won't HO unless either hoed upon first or out numbered with some dude all over my 6 while some other dweeb is repeatedly trying to set up HO shots. I much prefer to angle for a lead shot in a turn or just plain old bnz. But try HO me you bet I'll fill your face with cannon rounds.
:salute Beer :cheers:
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I say HO away. Never mind that 99.9% of the people who cry about it can't tell the difference between an actual head-on (mutually-assured destruction) vs. a front-quarter shot (shooting someone from the front, but without risk of them being able to hit you due to their angle); rather, HO'ing brings out your opponent's true character and deepest emotions. It shows the difference between those that play to have fun and those that have some sort of deep-seated emotional investment tied to their losses.
For example, this past Saturday there was a rather poor P-47 pilot who came at me from below. Knowing his speed was too high, I pointed my nose inside of his projected flight path and waited. He pulled into me, allowing for a clean shot to the inboard side of his nose/wing root. Never mind that he didn't have a shot, or that he was being chased by numerous other aircraft, a Fugitive from justice as it were, and would have certainly died; no, he decided to spend the next 5 minutes raging on 200 about a "HO," as if that somehow validated his choices post-death.
I say HO to your heart's content and never look back!
Spoken like a true mediocre cartoon pilot. A true giant.....in his own mind. Yes the future of this game is truely assured. :rolleyes:
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Spoken like a true mediocre cartoon pilot. A true giant.....in his own mind. Yes the future of this game is truely assured. :rolleyes:
Spoken like one killed by a mediocre cartoon pilot... on a regular basis. :lol
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My thoughts on HOing,
It's a viable shot, but highly risky as your opponent can shoot you just as easily as you can shoot him. If I'm in a Mossi and a zeke wants to HO me then I'll answer his call with 4 303s and 4 20mm hispanos. :devil My mossi can take more punishment, my mossi have more and better guns, the guns are all in the nose as well while his cannons are wing mounted. Everything is in my advantage. If he wants to play to my strengths then that's his mistake. Besides, the Ho shot is without a doubt the easiest shot to avoid in all of aerial combat. The closure rate is so high that any maneuver in any direction makes the shot almost impossible to make. That's all you have to do to avoid a HO shot, turn in any direction. If you died from a HO shot then it's really your own mistake. Either you didn't even try to avoid it, or you failed to keep your SA up and didn't see the other guy coming in.
Also, going for the Ho shot gives up the first turn advantage. If you see your opponent going for the HO shot then you can make your first turn much sooner than him and be on his tail in 1 turn.
I always found the HO complaints on 200 kind of hilarious because I knew that they probably flew right into their opponents guns and thought "He won't shoot me". This is aerial combat! The objective is to shoot the other guy down! ;)
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well now i have a few names to look out for .thanks .the people who do the hos better watch out if i hear your name called. guess i will have to head to the T A to get some tips to avoid some of you. next time it will be ho ho ho merry xmas and dont forget the eggnog. for you folks who use your skills and work for your kills i salute you. sure glad i started this topic now.
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Latrobe.
COME BACK we can duel in the DA! Mossy v mossy... Fight for fun, not cheap shot and running like many... Come on man help a brother out!
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Can we do it in the MA? And bring friends? And do it every single day? Forever? :D
:cheers:
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Can we do it in the MA? And bring friends? And do it every single day? Forever? :D
:cheers:
Mate would be more than happy to, you know me Latrobe always up for a fight!
<S> Beer
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Spoken like a true mediocre cartoon pilot. A true giant.....in his own mind. Yes the future of this game is truely assured. :rolleyes:
So you've dueled Skyyr multiple times and triumphed?
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HOing is just stupid, straight out, dumbest thing you can do.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Please HO me. I'll show you just how fast that will put you in a disadvantge. It's a desperate tactic for newbs and good players will easily capitalize on you
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Spoken like a true mediocre cartoon pilot. A true giant.....in his own mind. Yes the future of this game is truely assured. :rolleyes:
I forget who his butt buddy is but I am sure they both will learn in time that the whole chest thumping doesn't work around here until you can back it up. ;)
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I forget who his butt buddy is but I am sure they both will learn in time that the whole chest thumping doesn't work around here until you can back it up. ;)
Oh, I challenged said raging pilot to the DA and gave him a chance to redeem himself. He turned me down instantaneously. Not that it's surprising in any way, shape, or form. ;)
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Try doing that to someone who is of equal skill if not better?
Besides Fugitive could care less if you think you are better then him, you are trying to troll a long time vet of AH you think he would really respond let alone give you the time?
You keep trying to tell us that you don't care what we think then why does every post from you sound like it?
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I forget who his butt buddy is but I am sure they both will learn in time that the whole chest thumping doesn't work around here until you can back it up. ;)
Who the hell are they?
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Who the hell are they?
better yet who cares, like bone said they're just thumping there chests lol
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To HO or not to HO?
That is the question.
Whether t'is nobler in the mind to suffer the rubbish on 200 or inane PM's from dolts,
After you face spray them to oblivion,
Or act mightier than the rest with the "I never HO" rant.
Just HO. They have all the time in the world to complain when they're returning to the fight.
The same crew have been complaining about front end shots for at least the six years I've been pretending to fly. God knows how long before they've been pleading their virtue.
Fly what you want to fly, fight how you want to fight and shoot where you want to shoot. If you enjoy it more than the other guy, you've already won.
Dig it.
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I wish we could discuss tactics and ACM rather than hijack everyone's thread about who thinks they are good and all the roadkill banter going back a forth in the OPs post about a simple question. This crap is getting really really old. No one can even read about the damn topic because we seem think who's ever nuts hang lower is what matters in every GD topic.
Don't HO OP. Learn ACM 1v1 in the DA.
Take my advice or you will continue to get shot down when you could have gained the advantage and received a more satisfying and safe kill. All of these people who recommend HOing haven't played the game long enough and do not understand how stupid of a tactic it is.
I was new one time too and tried to learn how to "HO" successfully. Trust me, it is a joke. I laugh when people attempt to HO because I know they will lose.
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Who the hell are they?
This summers crop of wannabes is all.
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with the skill level in this game and me now entering my 4 month playing and starting to feel comfortable flying i run into this question . i have been told hos are bad and show no skill so i dont even if the odds are against me. as of late im getting tired of being mr nice guy. last night with 3 against me alone i tun into a fight knowing the odds and the first guy hoes me and i have no chance to work on my skills. so afterwards i send a pm hey dont you have any skill? with the learning curve as high as it is i think its time to stand up against these score hungry chest beaters. or should i forget what i have been told and just play cutthroat because it sure is getting frustrating.
Many don't like being HO'd because it doesn't give them a chance to fight without either sustaining serious damage or simply dying. I only HO if the setting is right.
#1 Outnumbered by at least 4 to 1 without any advantage or edge on my part, with all 4 actively attacking me, not just in the area . :P
#2 If I have sustained damage that will not allow me to turn with the plane(s) I am fighting with, and this will (probably) be the only shot I get on them before I die.
Most of the time it's a split second decision. I don't mind getting HO'd and killed every now and then. I think what agitates players to throwing their joysticks at the wall, is when players decide to HO everytime they get within range of someone else.
:cheers:
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Try doing that to someone who is of equal skill if not better?
Ah, so we can agree they are not of equal skill or better. I rest my case... ;)
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If you open the fight with a HO against me, then the fights over and I just fly away, heck, I figure you didn't want a fight anyway, you just wanted a kill at all costs. I've got no interest in playing chicken. If we are in a fight and you HO, the first one I chalk down as a mistake or just bad timing, the second one, fights over and I just fly away. I'm in no hurry to get a kill and don't care what my kill per hour is, so I understand this option is not for everyone.
Says the guy who enters the fight at 30K and only shoots AFK players in the back... :cheers:
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Says the guy who enters the fight at 30K and only shoots AFK players in the back... :cheers:
It's how he plays the game. I have film of him diving on my pony twice and getting no where but closer to in trouble. He bugged out. Was I bummed he ran? Yup, but its how he likes to fight. At least he didn't try to ho me. I can respect that any way.
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Ah, so we can agree they are not of equal skill or better. I rest my case... ;)
Try doing that to someone who is of equal skill.
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Any shot is fine, including head on's.
Keep in mind that people who complain about head on's are all fine with head on's that they take against bombers or Storches. Do bombers or Storches have better ability than fighters to defend themselves from the front or to evade head-on shots? No.
People who complain about head on's include people who aren't thinking of history (where head on's were completely acceptable, common shots); people who want to fly around with impunity at 50-100 mph in turny planes (for which you will only ever see the nose); and people who think that landing a head-on shot takes no skill or is high probability (which is incorrect, unless the target foolishly doesn't maneuver to get out of the way).
Don't fall for flying the way someone else wants you to fly. Fly the way that you want to fly. Take the shots you want to take.
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Its really simple, if you fly towards me i will pull the trigger,you can either break or pull the trigger too.
The choice is up to you.
.
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Any shot is fine, including head on's.
Keep in mind that people who complain about head on's are all fine with head on's that they take against bombers or Storches. Do bombers or Storches have better ability than fighters to defend themselves from the front or to evade head-on shots? No.
People who complain about head on's include people who aren't thinking of history (where head on's were completely acceptable, common shots); people who want to fly around with impunity at 50-100 mph in turny planes (for which you will only ever see the nose); and people who think that landing a head-on shot takes no skill or is high probability (which is incorrect, unless the target foolishly doesn't maneuver to get out of the way).
Don't fall for flying the way someone else wants you to fly. Fly the way that you want to fly. Take the shots you want to take.
if you try to HO my storch I will fly you into the ground :D
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I might HO if:
- You tried to HO me
- You are in a 262
- You are ganging me
- We end up slow, facing each other on the deck and experience tells me that 99% of players will HO if I "gentlemanly" pass by.
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I might HO if:
- You are in a 262
- We end up slow, facing each other on the deck and experience tells me that 99% of players will HO if I "gentlemanly" pass by.
-262s are the exception.
- You can still avoid HOs low and slow in a turn fight on the deck. Push that nose down and wiggle the ailerons, try to get to the left or right and get under their nose. Then when they are about to shoot, pull up and attempt doing a loop. You will win the fight if you can loop and cut an angle.
God I wish I knew how to post videos so I could show yall some examples.
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-262s are the exception.
- You can still avoid HOs low and slow in a turn fight on the deck. Push that nose down and wiggle the ailerons, try to get to the left or right and get under their nose. Then when they are about to shoot, pull up and attempt doing a loop. You will win the fight if you can loop and cut an angle.
God I wish I knew how to post videos so I could show yall some examples.
Low and slow, meaning slow enough that he can point his nose at you and you can't evade. Hard to push the nose down when you are already in between the trees.
Here is a link to a film that demonstrates:
http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/95850306/file.html
The setup for the shot occurs @ the 6:30 mark. The actual fight starts at 2:30 if interested. With the way he was pulling hard, there was no reason for me not to fire a pre-emptive HO shot. Notice he didn't so easily avoid it by doing what you suggest. This pretty much explains what I'm referring to.
Airspeed for both planes is 130-135:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ho.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ho.jpg.html)
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Low and slow, meaning slow enough that he can point his nose at you and you can't evade. Hard to push the nose down when you are already in between the trees.
Here is a link to a film that demonstrates:
http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/95850306/file.html
The setup for the shot occurs @ the 6:30 mark. The actual fight starts at 2:30 if interested. With the way he was pulling hard, there was no reason for me not to fire a pre-emptive HO shot. Notice he didn't so easily avoid it by doing what you suggest. This pretty much explains what I'm referring to.
I'll be home from work in about 30-45 min. I'll check it out.
I'm also going to attempt to upload a film, but I can't make any promises.
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Any shot is fine, including head on's.
Keep in mind that people who complain about head on's are all fine with head on's that they take against bombers or Storches. Do bombers or Storches have better ability than fighters to defend themselves from the front or to evade head-on shots? No.
People who complain about head on's include people who aren't thinking of history (where head on's were completely acceptable, common shots); people who want to fly around with impunity at 50-100 mph in turny planes (for which you will only ever see the nose); and people who think that landing a head-on shot takes no skill or is high probability (which is incorrect, unless the target foolishly doesn't maneuver to get out of the way).
Don't fall for flying the way someone else wants you to fly. Fly the way that you want to fly. Take the shots you want to take.
Thats a pretty heavy blanket your throwing around there! I won't ho a buff or a storch. They are much easier to setup a guns pass than fighters because Im pretty sure they are NOT going to be pulling for the ho, the same goes for goons.
The point here is those who like the FIGHT pretty much don't ho. To big a chance of the fight ending prematurely. Those just wanting to rack up kills and points/perks don't care about a fight and just ho everything they can. Morph, Wiley and a few other pointed out they WILL take the ho shot, but I'll bet $1000 they don't actively seek ho shots. If it's there they will take it, but they don't go out of their way to set up for it.
Fly like you will. Hoers don't get a lot of respect. Others call them out all the time..... "watch it they xxx does nothing but ho". You see that more often than you get "check 6's" :D It's your call.
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Any shot is fine, including head on's.
Keep in mind that people who complain about head on's are all fine with head on's that they take against bombers or Storches. Do bombers or Storches have better ability than fighters to defend themselves from the front or to evade head-on shots? No.
People who complain about head on's include people who aren't thinking of history (where head on's were completely acceptable, common shots); people who want to fly around with impunity at 50-100 mph in turny planes (for which you will only ever see the nose); and people who think that landing a head-on shot takes no skill or is high probability (which is incorrect, unless the target foolishly doesn't maneuver to get out of the way).
Don't fall for flying the way someone else wants you to fly. Fly the way that you want to fly. Take the shots you want to take.
Well said, sir. A beacon of reason in a sea of hypocrisy! -=S=-
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I always have gone by "both opponents have gun solution on each other"
I count it is an HO if both planes were capably of having a guns solution even if one of the participants was trying to avoid the HO and thus didn't actually have a guns solution. A front quarter shot would be one where one plane could get a guns solution and the other could not turn tight enough to get a firing solution.
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Low and slow, meaning slow enough that he can point his nose at you and you can't evade. Hard to push the nose down when you are already in between the trees.
Here is a link to a film that demonstrates:
http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/95850306/file.html
The setup for the shot occurs @ the 6:30 mark. The actual fight starts at 2:30 if interested. With the way he was pulling hard, there was no reason for me not to fire a pre-emptive HO shot. Notice he didn't so easily avoid it by doing what you suggest. This pretty much explains what I'm referring to.
Airspeed for both planes is 130-135:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ho.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ho.jpg.html)
Okay, so yes you could have avoided that and pushed down and went to the right and then pull a loop over him. But I can see why you went ahead for the shot even though it could have been risky if he pulled in too. Gotta say though you need to go verticle more in your flying. Also dont be afraid to roll to the right. I noticed you only basically rolled left. You could have had a lot more opportunity to make a shot on right snap roll over.
I'm looking at some films and will try to get one posted
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Thats a pretty heavy blanket your throwing around there! I won't ho a buff or a storch.
True, it's a blanket statement, as you say -- and there are exceptions to anything in life -- but it's not a heavy blanket. For example, I can't remember even once seeing a complaint about a fighter hoing a bomber, whereas I see it several times nearly every time I fly with regard to a fighter hoing a fighter. (And really you wouldn't HO a bomber before he's by you and bombing your base or carrier? And you wouldn't attack a bomber from 12 o'clock in shallow dive, aiming for the cockpit -- one of the classic Luftwaffe attacks?)
The point here is those who like the FIGHT pretty much don't ho.
That's *your* blanket statement. ;) I like fights as much as anyone else (or maybe moreso, given that I continue to love online air combat even after 26 years of it).
To me, a shot is a shot. Some are good and some are bad depending on the situation, and there is no sacred direction.
To big a chance of the fight ending prematurely.
That's not the case for most of the head-on shots I take. I take them if they are good shots presenting little risk to me and not spoiling my next move, and work to avoid them otherwise (unless I have no options or its a vulch-swarm of a base). It would be more technically correct for me to describe the shots I take as "forward-quarter shots," since they typically are not when the enemy and I are flying straight at each other. Still, someone shot down by one of my forward-quarter shots, if he were to complain about it, would likely call it a HO.
Fly like you will. Hoers don't get a lot of respect. Others call them out all the time..... "watch it they xxx does nothing but ho". You see that more often than you get "check 6's" :D It's your call.
I don't feel that I lack respect, or get "called out", or do nothing but HO, or lack getting check sixes.
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Morph, Wiley and a few other pointed out they WILL take the ho shot, but I'll bet $1000 they don't actively seek ho shots. If it's there they will take it, but they don't go out of their way to set up for it.
Just to make it clear from my point of view,I will not go for a John Wayne merge,it simply puts me in a bad position and leaves few options! When I said I would take a ho shot I mean what most call a ho and it's just a frontal aspect shot and usually the other player doesnt even have a shot.
I call it the AAFA or acute angle frontal attack....... :devil That said I'd rather be a man and shoot you in the back! :noid
:salute
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Okay, so yes you could have avoided that and pushed down and went to the right and then pull a loop over him. But I can see why you went ahead for the shot even though it could have been risky if he pulled in too. Gotta say though you need to go verticle more in your flying. Also dont be afraid to roll to the right. I noticed you only basically rolled left. You could have had a lot more opportunity to make a shot on right snap roll over.
I'm looking at some films and will try to get one posted
At the time, I felt that the closure rate was slow enough that he could have wheeled around and chopped off my tail if I tried a right break. The point where he went into circles on the deck, I probably should have dove for airspeed to gain a bit more alt but otherwise not sure how much more vertical I could have gotten. Perhaps you could clarify that for me.
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At the time, I felt that the closure rate was slow enough that he could have wheeled around and chopped off my tail if I tried a right break. The point where he went into circles on the deck, I probably should have dove for airspeed to gain a bit more alt but otherwise not sure how much more vertical I could have gotten. Perhaps you could clarify that for me.
I didn't get a chance to make a write up like I wanted to last night. So, after work, tonight I will explain to the fullest extent what I mean.
Edit: What I can tell you now though is that vert moves represent doing a half loop first and then creating an angle at the the top of the loop. What I saw you doing a lot was simply trying to roll around, but you were not climbing high enough before you rolled back over. When you do a higher loop first, you simultaneously get further behind them due to drag. Then you flip over and it creates a harder position for them to be able to pull up and roll over you because you started further back. So next time when you are about to roll over someone, stick your nose up another second longer, and I mean straight up then pull back, and then flip over.
I'll explain and hopefully get a video posted later of the right snap stall maneuver that cripples unsuspecting planes.
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Please HO me. I'll show you just how fast that will put you in a disadvantge.
Anyone who HO's and simply blows through won't be put at any disadvantage whatsoever other than during the HO pass. Want to go try it in the DA? I'll show you just how fast I get away.
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Anyone who HO's and simply blows through won't be put at any disadvantage whatsoever other than during the HO pass. Want to go try it in the DA? I'll show you just how fast I get away.
Disadvantage as in, even though you are going fast, I now have a nice view of your arse and you will now be in a defensive state even if you do have more E than me. I mean, you could pull up and try to do a rope or pull a nose down turn and pull for a loaded roll, or fly straight until I turn away. The key is, I will gain your 6 by anticipation while you are trying to make a HO shot, so now you have to defensively compensate or run away.
Also added: If you try to do a tight turn or pull a loop, I will have the advantage of pulling the loop inside of you.
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or run away
Thats the key part. A HOer who stays in the fight can usually be put at a disadvantage. The HOer in a fast plane that just keeps on trucking may give up his 6, but he's going 375 and the guy that maneuvered to avoid the HO and get pointed the other way isn't.
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Thats the key part. A HOer who stays in the fight can usually be put at a disadvantage. The HOer in a fast plane that just keeps on trucking may give up his 6, but he's going 375 and the guy that maneuvered to avoid the HO and get pointed the other way isn't.
True. So would you rather HO and have an 80% chance of dieing? Or avoid the HO and have an 80% chance the guy is gonna attempt to turn and you get a nice kill? Or he will keep on going and thats that then.
After watching a ton of films last night I was having a hard time finding videos of people HOing me. I realized it is because I have developed a technique. Rather than turning into them for a HO shot, I'll turn only 45 degrees where my plane is perpendicular to theirs and pretty much just let them try to get a shot, it takes a lot of timing, but they will almost always miss every time. They think they can make the side angle shot and this puts them in a bad position by banking and hurts there E state. Then as they are shooting, I pull up and do a loop angle turn on them as they are coming around. Amazing how much this works.
I'm going to attempt to post a video and I'll point this out.
I'll also discuss calderas video on how using more verticle loops rather than rolling would have been more effective.
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if you want to ho, go ahead and ho. Some ties I ho back other times I don't. Brewsters always get ho'd.
Yes, even by 262.s... I won :lol