Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: tuton25 on September 07, 2014, 02:29:35 PM

Title: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: tuton25 on September 07, 2014, 02:29:35 PM
Until we can get a proper collision model, I think it should be set that both aircraft are instantly destroyed....
This would end the "I hit you but you took no damage" plague that has cursed this game....
No one should get the kill for a collision either....
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Lusche on September 07, 2014, 02:33:59 PM
Until we can get a proper collision model, I think it should be set that both aircraft are instantly destroyed....


So you avoid an enemy plane, see him passing by at 100 feet and still get killed by a 'collision'

Is that what you want?
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Arlo on September 07, 2014, 03:00:36 PM

So you avoid an enemy plane, see him passing by at 100 feet and still get killed by a 'collision'

Is that what you want?

Apparently. Though I'm of the mind that it's the player that can't seem to avoid a collision on his (or her) front end that seems to have issues with the perfect compromise (you avoided it on your end - you don't suffer the consequence). Sounds a might selfish to demand the other player (who DID avoid it) also suffer your consequence.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: FLS on September 07, 2014, 03:50:29 PM
Until we can get a proper collision model, I think it should be set that both aircraft are instantly destroyed....
This would end the "I hit you but you took no damage" plague that has cursed this game....
No one should get the kill for a collision either....

We have the best possible collision model. When we get a proper internet there will be less confusion about the model.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: ImADot on September 07, 2014, 03:52:37 PM
I'm of the opinion that every request like this is from guys that are either used to server-side online games or just don't understand how to fly BFM so as to not get close enough to collide in the first place.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: tuton25 on September 07, 2014, 04:00:34 PM
I have a video (among others) of me scissoring a Yak in my Typhie. We scissored into each other and the damage model worked perfectly for on me, taking my wing, but for him (from what I can see in the video) is he took no damage. I sent a PM to him and he said he took no damage....
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Lusche on September 07, 2014, 04:05:22 PM

So you avoid an enemy plane, see him passing by at 100 feet and still get killed by a 'collision'

Is that what you want?


Interestingly this question is virtually never being answered by those asking for the "both get damage" model.


(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/ramp47fe_zps40fa9a20.jpg)
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Arlo on September 07, 2014, 04:06:14 PM
I have a video (among others) of me scissoring a Yak in my Typhie. We scissored into each other and the damage model worked perfectly for on me, taking my wing, but for him (from what I can see in the video) is he took no damage. I sent a PM to him and he said he took no damage....

It's not what's on your end that determines his damage. It's what's on his end. Until there's a 100% lag free internet that's as fair as it gets.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: FLS on September 07, 2014, 04:08:55 PM
I have a video (among others) of me scissoring a Yak in my Typhie. We scissored into each other and the damage model worked perfectly for on me, taking my wing, but for him (from what I can see in the video) is he took no damage. I sent a PM to him and he said he took no damage....

He took no damage because there was no collision on his PC. We explain this about once a month with pictures and video.  :D

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362414.0.html
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: FLOOB on September 07, 2014, 04:57:37 PM
Until we can get a proper collision model, I think it should be set that both aircraft are instantly destroyed....
This would end the "I hit you but you took no damage" plague that has cursed this game....
No one should get the kill for a collision either....
Who told you we don't have a proper collision model?
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: morfiend on September 07, 2014, 05:12:40 PM
I'm not sure if this is what you want or not but it was the best I could do to help!



   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc8TYsYb5i0


   Not really sure what "needs" to be fixed but maybe the link I provided will help!




     :salute
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: guncrasher on September 07, 2014, 05:21:47 PM
it's even funnier when you get behind a fighter and you get nailed by his tail gunner  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl.



semp
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Arlo on September 07, 2014, 05:27:46 PM
it's even funnier when you get behind a fighter and you get nailed by his tail gunner  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl.

semp

And .... Semp changes the subject (though he probably doesn't realize it).

Here's to a pristine connection at all times for everyone forever. And to Santy Claus.  :D
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Chalenge on September 07, 2014, 05:31:16 PM
I love it every time someone flies into another airplane and then complains there was a collision. Pure irony at its best.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Arlo on September 07, 2014, 05:36:43 PM
I love it every time someone flies into another airplane and then complains there was a collision. Pure irony at its best.

They're complaining the the other guy didn't suffer a collision, actually, and claiming that means the game's broke.  :huh
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: guncrasher on September 07, 2014, 08:57:00 PM
And .... Semp changes the subject (though he probably doesn't realize it).

Here's to a pristine connection at all times for everyone forever. And to Santy Claus.  :D

I am not changing the subject, it's the same model.  what you see on your front end isnt necessarily what the other guy sees.  that's why you can get nailed by a guy you are chasing or a guy dives on your six and you go down and he flies away without a scratch.  your fe saw a collision while he thought he was gonna crash and tried to avoid it.


semp
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: MK-84 on September 07, 2014, 09:09:18 PM
Sigh :rolleyes:

Who has the Aces High collision model diagram ready?
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Tinkles on September 08, 2014, 06:47:16 AM
Sigh :rolleyes:

Who has the Aces High collision model diagram ready?

 (http://i57.tinypic.com/15551jn.png)





 :D
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Skuzzy on September 08, 2014, 10:08:40 AM
The design of the collision model is a conscious one.  If you avoid the collision, your plane does not take damage, ever.  If you do not avoid the collision, your plane takes damage, always.

Being a client based game, the latencies over the Internet brought about this decision.  It is the most fair way to handle collisions.

Any other approach removes control of collisions from the one pilot.  As Lusche asked, do you really want to take damage when you clearly avoided a collision?  That is what you are asking for in the "if one collides, they all collide" scenario.

If you still no not understand why, please ask for further clarification.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2014, 10:33:51 AM
I love it every time someone flies into another airplane and then complains there was a collision. Pure irony at its best.

My favorite is when they get run into from behind and get a 'You have collided with x' message, and get all huffy, as though it's their car insurance company claiming they're at fault.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: bustr on September 08, 2014, 04:10:40 PM
One thing I have learned from our collision modeling. Never get really close on an A20's kester as you are diving in making a guns pass. All the pilot has to do is pull up, and you earn a collision and him a proxy kill.

I have often wondered if F3 in the A20 hasn't contributed to my over caution in diving attacks from repeated practical experience.

Still as Skuzzy eloquently stated. Just avoid the collision. We fly way to close to each other often due to the heat of the moment.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Squire on September 08, 2014, 05:18:08 PM
I think way too much is made about the collision model. I would prefer a model of some kind (even ours and no it's not perfect) over flying through planes. Bottom line don't collide. If you do oh well it's another hazard of air combat.  I can go into LWA for hours, days? and dogfight all the time and not collide. It's just not that common.

As for being instantly destroyed? no...there would be those who would use it for mischief. Let it be.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Chalenge on September 09, 2014, 01:33:42 AM
They're complaining the the other guy didn't suffer a collision, actually, and claiming that means the game's broke.  :huh

Semantics.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Scca on September 09, 2014, 07:02:58 AM
From the bazillion collision model threads I have read, the biggest real complaint is those situations where you had no ability to avoid the collision, you take damage and the dastardly red guy fly's away unhurt.  Example you are in a bomber in the scope, and the Pee-51 dives in for the kill, collides with you, you splode he fly's away free and clear.  While I agree it sucks, it's almost impossible to actually do this on purpose because you can't know where your opponent sees you on his end of the encounter, so it can't be used as a tactic.  Other than that one instance, I feel the AH damage model is the best compromise we can get given the current speed of light. 
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: pembquist on September 09, 2014, 10:33:21 AM
Got on purposed a while ago by.....crap I can"t remember who. It was totally legit though. I was landing a sneaky goon at a port, (not so sneaky I guess,) and what's his name in a desperate act of selfless bravery and sociopathic cruelty managed to biff me out of the air with a storch. Model being what it is he flew off unhurt to no doubt cheers from his countrymen while I had to endure the shame of failure........HEY, THIS COLLISION MODEL IS BOGUS, I WANT MY MONY BACK. WAH WAH WAH....stupid game
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Aspen on September 09, 2014, 10:51:51 AM
On any given night, I hear a dozen or so "I was rammed", "That guy collided with me" on range.   Weird how I rarely hear "I ran into that guy".  You would think it would be about 50%:50%?  Apparently I am always surrounded by victims of collisions and hardly ever around perpetrators of collisions?  Weird...
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Scca on September 09, 2014, 12:00:25 PM
On any given night, I hear a dozen or so "I was rammed", "That guy collided with me" on range.   Weird how I rarely hear "I ran into that guy".  You would think it would be about 50%:50%?  Apparently I am always surrounded by victims of collisions and hardly ever around perpetrators of collisions?  Weird...

Personal responsibility is no more....  I would say why, but I would get the ban hammer...

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a3/a3fd72f52de96bb2b0abb1e3981e1bbe458beb60294cbf6ffb40ef5393334c1f.jpg)
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: LilMak on September 12, 2014, 11:58:51 AM
I've spawned in on the runway and been collided with before my plane started its takeoff roll and watched as he flew away unscathed. As much as the collision model gives me fits, it's as good as it can get. It's a heck of a lot better than no danger of collisions at all.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: icepac on September 14, 2014, 07:52:56 AM
Film of B25 colliding with LVT and flying on.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,204187.msg4870685.html#msg4870685
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: Randy1 on September 14, 2014, 11:30:30 AM
Statistically speaking, given enough time, you should escape damage equally as much as you get damage. 

Long Ping times however could effect the outcome if the latency smoothing model and your computer speed, monitor-TV speed affect what you see om your screen versus what your computer calculates the position of the red guy.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: FLS on September 14, 2014, 11:42:26 AM
Statistically speaking, given enough time, you should escape damage equally as much as you get damage. 

Long Ping times however could effect the outcome if the latency smoothing model and your computer speed, monitor-TV speed affect what you see om your screen versus what your computer calculates the position of the red guy.

Your PC does not calculate the position of the other aircraft. The position information is sent from the other aircraft's PC to the server to your PC. On your PC the other aircraft is exactly where it appears. You avoid it and you don't collide. You will never have a collision if you see it coming and avoid it.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: MK-84 on September 16, 2014, 12:01:22 AM
Your PC does not calculate the position of the other aircraft. The position information is sent from the other aircraft's PC to the server to your PC. On your PC the other aircraft is exactly where it appears. You avoid it and you don't collide. You will never have a collision if you see it coming and avoid it.
and hopefuly a round of +1's

+1
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: kvuo75 on September 16, 2014, 08:18:36 AM
there is smoothing though, so your own pc does calculate his position to some degree.

Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: ImADot on September 16, 2014, 08:50:43 AM
there is smoothing though, so your own pc does calculate his position to some degree.

But still, as far as taking collision damage or giving ords damage, 100% of it is based on what your computer's client is "seeing". If you collide with something, you take damage. If your bullets/bombs/rockets/etc. hit something, it recieves damage.
Title: Re: Band-Aid on the collision model
Post by: FLS on September 16, 2014, 11:25:41 AM
there is smoothing though, so your own pc does calculate his position to some degree.

The smoothing code does not subject you to unavoidable collisions.