This post has been eating at me a long time.
My conscience will be clear as I at least pointed to the obvious fixes before it was too late.
lol, get rid of jets?
:rofl
I don't believe "getting rid of jets" can be done, but if limitations to their use were entered it might work.
I have been playing this game just over five years and I can tell a decline in the players.There use to be two or three late war arena's and they were usually full. Now, just one and a few players. What to do, what to do.....
The perk cost is the limitation to their use.
Make it into something many of us wouldn't want to play. Then it will be popular.
Wiley.
Instead of the 262 costing a flat rate (based on ENY), maybe make it a percentage of the player's total perks in the bank. Maybe 10%, 20%? That way a new account holder can fly one within a day or two and it will make the jet more valuable to the long timer that has 30,000 fighter perks.
Instead of the 262 costing a flat rate (based on ENY), maybe make it a percentage of the player's total perks in the bank. Maybe 10%, 20%? That way a new account holder can fly one within a day or two and it will make the jet more valuable to the long timer that has 30,000 fighter perks.
Furthermore, the people with 30K+ fighter perks are not only very rare (I was able to verify that by checking the corresponding achievements), but most importantly they only got so many perks because they are not that much interested in flying 262s in the first place.
I don't think "being popular" is the intent. AH will never be a WoT....thankfully. But I think things can be done to improve the game.
Furthermore, the people with 30K+ fighter perks are not only very rare
I live in Australia. I might see 40 people logged on, maybe even 50 as the night gets old.
Of those 50 maybe 15 or 20 are in flight. On a map made for hundreds it is not easy to find a fight. I do not care to fly buffs or drive GVs. Without a fighter combat option I pretty much do not bother to fly at all. I usually only bother on weekends during the US prime time.
What Rapier says is true. Although I would prefer it if he did not simply imitate Rocky in his 51 and actually tried to fight now and again :p
lol, get rid of jets?
:rofl
I think it is possible that those that take a quick peek to see if there are people on and then log maybe should think about logging in and playing. There seems to be so many of you that if you all did, then the numbers would be up. Just log in and play. Quit waiting for the conditions to be "perfect". They won't ever be "perfect", just come and play and make the conditions better. You aren't always going to have even fights, or the type of fight you always want, it will not be "perfect" all the time. Log in and play, make it better, not worse. And you former players / BBS lurkers, renew, get in the game and play.
If the only thing you can do to make the game better is to play, then get in a dang plane and fly already.
I think it is possible that those that take a quick peek to see if there are people on and then log maybe should think about logging in and playing. There seems to be so many of you that if you all did, then the numbers would be up. Just log in and play. Quit waiting for the conditions to be "perfect". They won't ever be "perfect", just come and play and make the conditions better. You aren't always going to have even fights, or the type of fight you always want, it will not be "perfect" all the time. Log in and play, make it better, not worse. And you former players / BBS lurkers, renew, get in the game and play.
If the only thing you can do to make the game better is to play, then get in a dang plane and fly already.
Who does this? Normally when I settle in here in Europe I just log in. Normally there are anywhere from 70-100; more on Sunday. If I have targets to shoot at, then I am "all in"
Don't have the time. Would rather watch paint dry than drone around an empty arena with no dar bars.... Most agree.
It will be interesting to see everyone over in Warbirds when the doors close here. Talk about irony.
2. GET RID OF ENY, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE ARENA HAS LESS THAN 100 PEOPLE IN IT: ENY as a balancing mechanism is dubious. It may function to get people to try different planes but is that really the goal? Here is what everyone figures out. In most cases, I and my countrymen are going to be flying inferior planes. I’ve seen nearly a whole country log out when ENY kicks in late at night.The sides in recent months are the most balanced that I ever remember in the game (Euro nights time). ENY works.
My past thread was locked...fine.
This is an excellent post. Five easy solutions, of which primarily the 262 has drawn a majority of comments. Easy, leave the 262 alone and let's work the rest.
Removing ENY is not a solution but creating big problems.
Removing ENY is not a solution but creating big problems.
Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't really see outnumbered 3:1 against ponies as being materially different from being outnumbered 3:1 by P38s or Jugs.
Wiley.
Removing ENY is not a solution but creating big problems.
One player bleets they're leaving cause, darn it, it just got too hard and instead of someone else setting a better example and inspiring otherwise a flock forms for the door? I'm not thinking the game mechanics are the problem. :huh
This remark is totally off base. No where did the OP say he was leaving the game, he offered his opinion based on his observation that numbers are way down and offered 5 suggestions to help improve the game. I also saw no formation or flocking to the door. Right or wrong, I the offered suggestions were an honest effort to help. You can join the discussion and discuss the merits up or down on each suggestion, but please refrain from character assassination.
This remark is totally off base. No where did the OP say he was leaving the game, he offered his opinion based on his observation that numbers are way down and offered 5 suggestions to help improve the game. I also saw no formation or flocking to the door. Right or wrong, I the offered suggestions were an honest effort to help. You can join the discussion and discuss the merits up or down on each suggestion, but please refrain from character assassination.
You don't know what I'm talking about or what remark I'm responding to, do you?
And why wouldn't I be responding to the post immediately before mine?
Because as I said, you didn't put that remark in quotes, on most BBS's that I've been on it's the custom when commenting on a remark to place that remark in quotes. when a comment is placed without a quoted remark the assumption is that the comment is on the original post, at least that is how I've always seen it done.
It's not limited to things liek these, but also affects GV and bombers.
But I'm all with you and for making ENY kick in earlier and much harder as well :aok
Who are you posting to? :cool: (j/k)
My point was that frustration logging (singular or as a group) is more the problem than the excuses given. And it's not like ENY just came about recently. I'm of a mind that some people just don't want to have fun or that whining and complaining may be their form of it. And that was in relation to V's post.
I really don't see a difference with the buffs either, and as far as the GV's, who cares? :devil :bolt:
I don't know. ENY and restricted side switching coupled with the chesspiece underoo brigade seem to me to all be working at odds with pretty much everybody on all sides being inconvenienced for little to no benefit.
Wiley.
I was talking to a friend and one of the things he didn't like about Aces High (he subscribed for about three months back in 2001) was the difficulty in finding a fight. I was thinking about another MMO we play, World of Warcraft (sue me, but that is the one my RL friends play), and I thought that perhaps the daily quest idea could be transposed to Aces High. They would not be structured like a player generated mission, but rather free form, bring your own tools and meet the requirement to get the reward. The reward could be some score bonus, perk bonus or both, but nothing so high as to require participation by those disinclined.
The way I envision this would be system generated "quest" missions every one or two hours, whatever is balanced. There would be a equal number of missions for each nation. For example:
Bishops: Take A1 (Take field A1 from the Rooks within 1 hour)
Bishops: Defend A2 (Prevent the Rooks from taking field A2 for an hour)
Bishops: Take A3 (Take field A3 from the Knights within 1 hour)
Bishops: Defend A4 (Prevent the Knights from taking field A4 for an hour)
Bishops: Attack Rook City (Bomb Rook city to below 25% within one hour {could even stipulate that the bombs had to be dropped from above 15,000ft or so})
Bishops: Defend Bishop City (Prevent the Knights from reducing Bishop City below 25% for an hour)
Knights: Take A5 (Take field A5 from the Rooks within 1 hour)
Knights: Defend A6 (Prevent the Rooks from taking field A6 for an hour)
Knights: Take A4 (Take field A4 from the Bishops within 1 hour)
Knights: Defend A3 (Prevent the Bishops from taking field A3 for an hour)
Knights: Attack Bishop City (Bomb Bishop City to below 25% within one hour {could even stipulate that the bombs had to be dropped from above 15,000ft or so})
Knights: Defend Knight City (Prevent the Rooks from reducing Knight City below 25% for an hour)
Rooks: Take A2 (Take field A2 from the Bishops within 1 hour)
Rooks: Defend A1 (Prevent the Bishops from taking field A1 for an hour)
Rooks: Take A6 (Take field A6 from the Knights within 1 hour)
Rooks: Defend A5 (Prevent the Knights from taking field A5 for an hour)
Rooks: Attack Knight City (Bomb Knight city to below 25% within one hour {could even stipulate that the bombs had to be dropped from above 15,000ft or so})
Rooks: Defend Rook City (Prevent the Bishops from reducing Knight City below 25% for an hour)
As you can see, these mission quests are all pointed at another mission quest to encourage combat.
How would it work in gameplay? While in the tower you would accept the mission you wanted to do, for example as a Bishop you could take "Take A1 (Take field A1 from the Rooks within 1 hour)". Once the Mission Quest timer began (there might be a clock counting down to the mission start and then counting up until the time ran out) you would launch as normal, selecting your airplane or vehicle, and heading off for A1 to participate in the Bishop attempt to take it. There would be no mass launching by the computer as in a player generated mission. To determine if you were eligible for completing the Mission Quest and getting the score/perk reward the program would need to do a few spot checks to make sure you were participating in A1's sector and inflicting damage on A1 or A1's defenders.
The goal of this idea is not to mandate new behavior for all players, but rather to encourage a meeting of opposing forces to fight it out for something. Players would be free to participate or not even without accepting the Mission Quest. They would be free to use whatever airplane, vehicle or boat they wanted in order to participate, though a tank might well fail to score a City defense mission due to not damaging the attackers. There should not be too many Mission Quests per iteration as it wouldn't be good to dilute the players interested in participating too much.
Concern:
A mechanism needs to be in place to discourage hordes. This could be done via the ENY system reducing the rewards based on side balance, enough of an imbalance and the rewards would be zeroed out.
forcing people to fight where and when they do not want to, would never work karnakExactly, I've adapted my play style to fighting hordes, starting a fun little Luftwaffe mission every now and then, showing up at a base to try and get an upper or 2, and hunting buffs on the large maps, since any darbar could be a fighter on the small maps. I still have fun as long as the map ain't dead, or if a bunch of people log in on the team I just joined and I am now stuck on for 12hrs (not a 12hr rule rant, just bad judgment).
forcing people to fight where and when they do not want to, would never work karnak
Exactly, I've adapted my play style to fighting hordes, starting a fun little Luftwaffe mission every now and then, showing up at a base to try and get an upper or 2, and hunting buffs on the large maps, since any darbar could be a fighter on the small maps. I still have fun as long as the map ain't dead, or if a bunch of people log in on the team I just joined and I am now stuck on for 12hrs (not a 12hr rule rant, just bad judgment).
Did you guys actually read what I proposed? Nowhere in there was there any mechanism to force people to fight or to participate if they chose not to, this was a very deliberate and considered thing. The idea is to nudge people towards fighting, not force them. They could still do whatever they were doing before and get the same rewards for it.I was responding to what Cobia said
Have never has an problem finding a fight, it just doesn't happen period, even when the radar is down, the base flashes, just go to the flashing base. fight.
Except I don't particularly want to bomb the GVs that are flashing the base.
Wish they'd implement a means of distinguishing that it's a GV versus an aircraft that's flashing a base.
Wiley.
Even if it is an nme GV, it's still a fight. I know that when an nme GV spawns in to an airfield, that little town symbol flashes long before the base flashed. Perhaps AH could split the flashing town vs base and only flash the town for GV's and only flash the Base for aircraft. But I doubt that will ever happen.
Even if it is an nme GV, it's still a fight.
I know that when an nme GV spawns in to an airfield, that little town symbol flashes long before the base flashed. Perhaps AH could split the flashing town vs base and only flash the town for GV's and only flash the Base for aircraft. But I doubt that will ever happen.
Think how much ground-based vulchers would exploit that. Base doesn't flash while they camp the runway.
20mm's aren't going to do much against a battle tank. Not much of a fight. As hard as it may be to believe, there are quite a few players who find GVs to be invisible and meaningless to their AH experience unless they're vulching a runway.
I could live with the radar system as is if I knew there were aircraft attacking the flashing bases, but it's a pain in the backside to up and only find armor in the area.
Or just have an A and a G beside the icon so it's clear what's flashing the base and town. Whatever system is telling us the place is under attack should be able to differentiate between armor and air.
Wiley.
How would you indicate both GV's and Aircraft are attacking.
Folks, please re-read the original thread. The thoughts of the OP are great and merit an articulate, well thought out response.
Both the A and the G would show beside the base and the town.
The ideas presented in the OP have been hashed and rehashed so many times on this board, there's really nothing more to be said about them that hasn't been said umpteen dozen times in the last couple months.
Wiley.
The thread does not need to go down the path of "I did this" or "I did that". I think it more useful and expressive if the dialogue is pointed to the betterment of the game in general
side switch time in LW should be same as in EW/MW
:bolt:
(especially at off peak times)
EW/MW are great except for numbers. One hour switch, small maps.
You'd think that would be an attraction, then. Alas, not so much?
The current thread is a perfect illustration of why the game is what it is today and why it stands on the brink of extinction. Why as a genre, WWII MMO air combat is very nearly gone. With very few exceptions, no one seems to be really thinking about the game itself but are much more narrowly focused on what they as individuals like to do. If HTC were to read through this as some indication of what the players want (and I’m very afraid they do), the conclusion would be, players want the game to do and be the same thing it has always been and maybe some more players would be nice. Problem is that doesn't tell you how to pull back from the brink.
Like lemmings on a mass migration to a terminal swim, no one is focused on the end, on the cold and the isolation and eventual expiration. Each lemming is only concerned about their own cheese (or whatever it is that lemmings eat). “As long as I have my cheese, I’m happy!!” And really that’s ok because you are players and NOT game designers, NOT owners of the company. Players risk little, players are here for the cheese and stay till there is no more cheese. Could players do something? Sure! There are plenty of examples of communities that have done great things. But that requires an attitudinal shift from "My Cheese!" It may be hiding here but its hiding pretty good.
If / when AH goes away, it will have been due to the cumulative actions of the developer and this community. Having been witness to many “beloved” games going to the game graveyard, you may wish to record where you came down on this. That way in 2025, you can remember what you did or didn’t do about that great WWII air combat game you used to play in 2014 (“What was it called? Gee I wish we had something like that now!”)
So let’s boil it down to what seems least scary or "requires me to change my thinking" for all.
Adhere to these three simple ideas.
a. THE GOAL IS TO KEEP MORE PLAYERS PLAYING OVER MORE TIME: Not just GVers, not just base takers, not just furballers, not just bombers, but more players. If the current player population, plays for longer periods, that effectively increases the numbers playing which will in turn encourage new players to play. People WILL leave because there is nothing to do.
b. BENEFIT THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PLAYERS ALL THE TIME: Aces High is too SMALL to cater to special interest fanboy groups (if you want to find them, read up the thread). Features benefiting a small segment to the detriment of the rest need to go.
c. MORE PLAYER INTERACTIONS IS BETTER THAN FEW: Whether people want to admit it or not, interactions over time is what drives MMOs. Whatever increases these interactions is a good thing.
Do these three things:
1. GET RID OF THE BIG MAPS – NOW! Particularly after 1 am EST. AH doesn’t draw the numbers anymore. It won’t get back to those numbers unless players can find each other and interact. When the game was small, you had smaller maps. Hold off on new features until you have a complete set of appropriate size maps. This may require you to build them yourselves.
2. GET RID OF ENY, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE ARENA HAS LESS THAN 100 PEOPLE IN IT: ENY as a balancing mechanism is dubious. It drives away more people than it retains. See (a) above.
3. GET RID OF THE “FEATURE” THAT A SINGLE BOMBER OR SMALL GROUP OF BOMBERS CAN KNOCK OUT THE RADAR FOR A COUNTRY. What is the best outcome of this feature? You make one bomber pilot happy, perhaps some proportion of his countrymen happy and you make 1/3 of the people on line (one country) leave or want to leave.
In the final analysis, this is the logic:
1. What got us here is: Doing what has always been done. Nearly out of players, nearly out of give a hoot, nearly out of time.
2. Einstein said it was the definition of insanity to do the same thing over and over again and expect it to come out different.
3. HTC can keep doing the same thing, in which case we can expect more of the same. This has been proven to create less. Less players, less revenue. Bit by bit and day by day.
4. HTC can change, take action. Game may still go away but at least there was an attempt to alter course and speed. The above changes are pretty safe, as safe as anything you could do. In other words, they aren’t likely to drive people out. Less costly and quicker than a graphics upgrade.
I normally try to spare people’s feelings but this is like when the doctor tells you to knock off smoking and drinking because it’s going to kill you. The ultimate kindness in that case is to be brutally honest.
So Dale, I’m going to lay this one at your feet. Don’t expect answers from this forum. These folks don’t have the same skin in the game. You own the company, and no one can make this decision for you.
Do something, do nothing. It’s up to you.
I expect nothing to be done.
I do, however, expect Arlo to pop in any moment and declare ALL IS WELL.
The current thread is a perfect illustration of why the game is what it is today and why it stands on the brink of extinction.
My $4.17 (adjusted for inflation):
2. You should never punish players because there are too many on. The ENY-limit thing is just bad business. The FIRST thing I heard last night when I logged in was someone say "Welp, can't fly my plane because of ENY, you all have a good evening." It's like time stands still. Instead of punishing the side with the numbers, reward the side with less... if one side has enough people that they would normally only be able to fly ENY 10 and up, instead of blocking them from enjoying the game, just set the other sides perk costs to 0 for non-jets. Free C-Hogs, Dash-4s, Tempests, even B-29s... not LESS perks to fly them, but 0 perks. That'd clear the problem right up.
2. You should never punish players because there are too many on. The ENY-limit thing is just bad business. The FIRST thing I heard last night when I logged in was someone say "Welp, can't fly my plane because of ENY, you all have a good evening." It's like time stands still. Instead of punishing the side with the numbers, reward the side with less... if one side has enough people that they would normally only be able to fly ENY 10 and up, instead of blocking them from enjoying the game, just set the other sides perk costs to 0 for non-jets. Free C-Hogs, Dash-4s, Tempests, even B-29s... not LESS perks to fly them, but 0 perks. That'd clear the problem right up.I dont know how long you played AH, but in the past, side balancing threads and complaints were very common. Have you seen any such threads lately? in the past year? While the 12H rules does not allow side hopping to avoid ENY locks, it did make players choose a side that does not get ENYed on regular basis during their playing hours and thus achieved side balancing on a large scale. Fluctuations still happen, especially when numbers are low so ENY kicks in occasionally, but never for long periods. It is the 12H rule that need to be addressed in order to allow a few players to hop sides when temporary population fluctuation makes ENY kicks in - it only takes a small number of them to hop in order to remove the ENY lock.
I dont know how long you played AH, but in the past, side balancing threads and complaints were very common. Have you seen any such threads lately? in the past year? While the 12H rules does not allow side hopping to avoid ENY locks, it did make players choose a side that does not get ENYed on regular basis during their playing hours and thus achieved side balancing on a large scale. Fluctuations still happen, especially when numbers are low so ENY kicks in occasionally, but never for long periods. It is the 12H rule that need to be addressed in order to allow a few players to hop sides when temporary population fluctuation makes ENY kicks in - it only takes a small number of them to hop in order to remove the ENY lock.
Perk-less C hog will not make players change sides. I and many others have in excess of 10,000 perks and are completely blind to perk costs. The side with the low numbers will continue to get ganged even if they all choose do get ganged in C-hogs - but they wont. They will get ganged in their usual P-51Ds, Spit16s and La7s, for the same reason that players on the ENY locked side will only play in their P-51D and totally refuse to take a P-51B.
If HTC is so afraid of lowering the 12H limit globally, how about this:
Lower make the side switching limit 1-2H only for players that switched from a more populated country to the LEAST populated one.
Or if this is a little to permissive, make it so only when the sides are enough out of balance so ENY limits are in effect. Leave it 12H if you move to a more populated country than you current one. This will prevent from players to move to the more populated country in order to "win the war", but will still allow a small number of players to hop sides for an hour or two of action.
Add this temporary 1H side switch limit info to the ENY limit message!
Remember that players that hop side remove the ENY locks for everyone
Consider all the old players who will come back to peek at AH3 when it's released. This game has a proven infection that the most reticent denier of lingering attraction can over come. AH3 may be a perfect storm on arrival to inspire old vets to indulge, and new players to see past the graphics that used to turn them off looking in the storefront window.
Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the players in the MA get on the forum here?
The current thread is a perfect illustration of why the game is what it is today and why it stands on the brink of extinction.
2. You should never punish players because there are too many on. The ENY-limit thing is just bad business. The FIRST thing I heard last night when I logged in was someone say "Welp, can't fly my plane because of ENY, you all have a good evening." It's like time stands still. Instead of punishing the side with the numbers, reward the side with less... if one side has enough people that they would normally only be able to fly ENY 10 and up, instead of blocking them from enjoying the game, just set the other sides perk costs to 0 for non-jets. Free C-Hogs, Dash-4s, Tempests, even B-29s... not LESS perks to fly them, but 0 perks. That'd clear the problem right up.It is possible that would be better for the game, but for some players such as myself it would also be the deathknell.
Rapier, no and yes.
It is a 'chicken versus the egg' statement. You are saying that the numbers are low because of negative chat. I would say it is the exact opposite. When the numbers were high, I said nothing. There wasn't anything to talk about, other than I want an F8F and a P-61B. As the numbers dropped sticks began to ask why. As the numbers got lower, the questions turned bitter. Finally, here we are.
I fully expect that negative chatter does have an impact on the game, without a doubt. Though it is NOT the cause of our numbers cut more than half.
boo
Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the players in the MA get on the forum here?
I would suspect that the complainers do not represent the majority of the players.
That having been said, any product needs to change (evolve) as the needs of the consumer change
I believe HTC is doing that.
Getting tired of all the whining, armchair quarterbacking, and "business experts" spouting their unsolicited 2 cents. No disrespect intended to the OP or anyone else
...Nero likes to play the fiddle I've heard.
Never tried Eve - is it worth a look? I can only devote 12 hours a week to the game
The Warbirds death spiral had nothing to do with the boards.
The decline here doesn't either.
^^^^^^ Let me guess. "What do camels and Arlo have in common? Legs and humps...."
Am I close?
This is like bidding blind nillo in Spades, except easier because the deals are always the same.
The market changed, AH did not.
Numbers are way down, they are working on eye candy. I HIGHLY doubt we have lost numbers because of eye candy. Likely the biggest hit was the economy, which means AH needed to analyze and adjust their entry cost with the market, they did not. As the numbers slipped due to the economy, they further slipped as the culture changed due to lower numbers. It has 'vicious cycled' itself to our current state of affairs.
AH is Vegas style all in with the eye candy. I highly doubt it changes the numbers. Marketing and cost structure will.
In any case...
The previous incarnation of 'the sky is falling' gang wanted eye candy.
Your arguments are as excellent as per usual.
Your arguments are as excellent as per usual.
On the subject of side switching, I would make it progressive.
First switch is one hour, the second would be two hours, the third, and any subsequent switches, would be three.
Just a thought :old:
Any comments ?
LtngRydr