So how far out should I aim on for reversing my turn if I'm in a Typhoon? I generally don't have a problem slashing in and taking shots, but usually find somone trying to climb for me.Dont do immelmans in a Typh. If you want to reverse, use a high wingover. To the left is better because at the end you'll roll right to straighten out and the Typh rolls much better to the right. With a wingover, you come out of the maneuver with about the same speed as you started. Immelamn trades speed for alt, so you end up headed in the opposite direction, but higher and slower - I'd rather have my energy in the form of speed than alt, especially in a Typh.
I level out and then use my top speed to get away. When I try to immelman back in (at D 2.0) I end up with too little speed in a plane that can't turn worth crap (again, Typhoon).
Any tips?
What's a wingover? I've never even heard of that. Anyone help me out here? :P
:salute
JRjolly
You want to keep working your opponent's speed down when BnZing. If you're extending away then he levels off to chase you and builds speed back up. Your opponent will bleed a bit of speed making his defensive turn against your initial attack. If you miss then immediately go back into the vertical. They will be low on speed after avoiding your shot and will bleed even more speed if they attempt to climb with you, which they won't be able to do anyways since you will have such a big speed advantage.You make assumptions about what the opponent is going to do. What are you going to do when the opponent doesn't cooperate?
You make assumptions about what the opponent is going to do. What are you going to do when the opponent doesn't cooperate?
What if they split S? They avoid your shot and actually gain a little speed. Then what?
Thanks for asking JRJolly! I have this same problem too, but it really depends on judging energy states. I am interested to hear the answers!
What do you mean? What if he doesn't turn? Then he dies.
If he doesn't bleed his energy off?
If he doesn't extend out?
If he doesn't climb up to you?
If he doesn't do what you expect him to do?
If he is unpredictable?
You want to keep working your opponent's speed down when BnZing. If you're extending away then he levels off to chase you and builds speed back up. Your opponent will bleed a bit of speed making his defensive turn against your initial attack. If you miss then immediately go back into the vertical. They will be low on speed after avoiding your shot and will bleed even more speed if they attempt to climb with you, which they won't be able to do anyways since you will have such a big speed advantage.
When you make your initial attack run on your opponent is it better to go into a 90 degree zoom climb or keep it shallower.
If they don't do what you expect and are unpredictable then they are really new pilots. Good pilots are predictable. They will always pull the move that will best benfit them in the situation they find themselves in. The new pilots don't know what move is the best to pull in order to win the fight so they pull moves that make you think "What is he doing?" Once you know they're new then you should be able to easily beat them (and then give them some tips I hope :) )
Good pilots who know the fundamentals of BFM/ACM, energy management, and have basic tactical situational awareness are unpredictable by nature. Pilots who are predictable and depend on the same move all the time are going to get surprised at some point in the future.
That's just how I see all this BnZ stuff. I don't know if it's right or not, I'm not a real pilot. Hopefully I'm not giving wrong advise. :uhoh
When you make your initial attack run on your opponent is it better to go into a 90 degree zoom climb or keep it shallower.
Do any of you guys have much success with this method?
Let me in the defensive for a moment. If someone is diving in on me. My first move should be a 1.) Flat turn into his path or 2.) Up and into him.
If I do 1, I don't think it's aggressive enough to get him to overshoot. If I do 2.) I'm losing a LOT of speed. If that happens and the attacker is good, He'll do a nice high loop and he's back in on me when I'm doing 150-200mph. That's where I go wrong. I'm so aggresive on my initial merge, I lose too much speed. I'm too worried about him getting a shot on me on that first pass.
Am I doing the right thing? Which one makes one more right than the other? How can I conserve more E and get out of his flight path WITHOUT giving up my altitude.
I have noticed all the good BNZers stay almost on top of me whenever they come zoom up after a pass.
As of late I've been extending my opponents out to neutralize their altitude advantage, if their in a slower ride ill split S back into them once I have sufficient separation.
Do any of you guys have much success with this method?
Hi guys. It's really nice and useful discussion you have here.The simple answer is, maneuver out of plane using your lift vector. The hard part is practicing it over and over and learning how to manage your energy at the same time. :salute
I would like to ask how to deny attacker a shot in first phase? F.e. I'm sightly turning in gentle climb keeping an eye on the attacker. When he's close enough I start pulling more G to put and keep wingtip not on him but on his vertical line. Right?
When attacker is in immediate vicinity I start to pull in him and vertical in cork-screw/barrel roll thing. And this is the moment most of attackers make their snapshots on me. And most of them are successful and/or fatal. Damage ranges from loosing guns to loosing vital parts of the aircraft.
How do I deny attacker that snapshot opportunity while defending?
How do I deny attacker that snapshot opportunity while defending?
Are lift Vectors different for every plane? How do you mess around with it? lol I've never heard of lift vector until now.
Lift vector and flight path are 2 lines that define your plane of motion. Think of lift vector as the direction of the lift force. When you look straight up from the cockpit you are looking at the direction of the lift force. When you pull lead your shot's trajectory is in your plane of motion. Your target may evade by rolling and changing his lift vector to change his plane of motion. You respond by adjusting your lift vector and flight path to match his plane of motion again. Note that you can get a snap shot without matching POM but you need it to be similar for a tracking shot.
I see. Makes sense. So my "lift vector" you basically mean learning your planes limitations and stall points correct?
I see. Makes sense. So my "lift vector" you basically mean learning your planes limitations and stall points correct?Think of the lift vector as a vertical line through the top of your head there mains vertical in relation to your aircraft. When you are maneuvering it points in the direction you are pulling to or pushing away from, or rolling toward or we away from.
The simple answer is, maneuver out of plane using your lift vector. The hard part is practicing it over and over and learning how to manage your energy at the same time. :salute
You have to get inside his turn before he gets the shot. It can be hard to judge because his turn radius may be decreasing while yours is increasing.
As a general rule the climbing aircraft will reduce it's turn rate and radius and the descending aircraft will increase it. You should get an idea of the relative energy states after the first turn.
But bogey is able to adjust his plane of maneuver by rolling hist craft at any time. Isn't he?Yes, just like you are. That's where knowledge of BFM fundamentals, energy management, and a whole lot of practice come in to play. More often than not, two equally matched aircraft and pilots will duke it out and stay neutral until one makes a mistake. Most often, he loses.
Is there any way to guesstimate attacker turn radius more or less reliably?This is another time where BFM fundamentals can save your bacon. Watching the opponent's relative turn rate and opening/closing closure rate can provide a lot of situational awareness (SA) and give you an idea of what your next move should be. Air combat is just too fluid to use the same move against the other guy all the time. Just when it's time to use that favorite move, he'll whip out something entirely unexpected and turn the tables. :salute
You seem to have some level of success against your opponents. But, the discussion of lift vector and BFM/ACM fundamentals seems to be missing in your discussion. For example, pointing your wing at the opponent isn't a valid fundamental term. There are a number of scenarios that come to mind that would simply confuse someone new to the game and air combat by "pointing their wing" at the opponent. Its important to know, apply, and teach the fundamentals when introducing it to new players, otherwise, confusion will exist.....followed by frustration. :salutePUMa44,
PUMa44,
This is the second post of yours I have seen today where you mention a lack of explanation of lift vector and other terms. Could you please EXPLAIN those items instead of just noting their absence? Please!!!! It is leading to great frustration :bhead I read your post thinking " okay, here comes the correct way to do this" only to find a dead end. I have a basic understanding but need to understand the details.
sorry PUMA44,Here's a diagram found by googling "lift vector" .
I should have followed the discussion to the end, as you did explain it a bit. MY bad! A bit less frustrated now. Thank you.
PUMa44,
This is the second post of yours I have seen today where you mention a lack of explanation of lift vector and other terms. Could you please EXPLAIN those items instead of just noting their absence? Please!!!! It is leading to great frustration :bhead I read your post thinking " okay, here comes the correct way to do this" only to find a dead end. I have a basic understanding but need to understand the details.
You seem to have some level of success against your opponents. But, the discussion of lift vector and BFM/ACM fundamentals seems to be missing in your discussion. For example, pointing your wing at the opponent isn't a valid fundamental term. There are a number of scenarios that come to mind that would simply confuse someone new to the game and air combat by "pointing their wing" at the opponent. Its important to know, apply, and teach the fundamentals when introducing it to new players, otherwise, confusion will exist.....followed by frustration. :saluteI am glad you further explained yourself as this above was even less helpful that "point your wing at him" which I actually understood, and was a very good layman's way of answering the question. Appreciate that some try to dumb down the jargon for the newer folks, know their heart's in the right place and cut them some slack :salute
I am glad you further explained yourself as this above was even less helpful that "point your wing at him" which I actually understood, and was a very good layman's way of answering the question. Appreciate that some try to dumb down the jargon for the newer folks, know their heart's in the right place and cut them some slack :salute
As other mentioned, it's a good idea to do some studying on BFM (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/maneuvers/maneuvers.htm)(basic flight maneuvers), and ACM (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/acm-merge.htm) (air combat maneuvers) so when knowledgeable folks like Puma44 answer your question, you will know what he's saying. There is a great deal of information here, and sometimes it can be overwhelming.
Great point about doing self study. :aok. Yes, it can be overwhelming, especially when someone uses made up terminology that those new to air combat won't find in publications written by subject matter experts. :salute
As other mentioned, it's a good idea to do some studying on BFM (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/maneuvers/maneuvers.htm)(basic flight maneuvers), and ACM (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/acm-merge.htm) (air combat maneuvers) so when knowledgeable folks like Puma44 answer your question, you will know what he's saying. There is a great deal of information here, and sometimes it can be overwhelming.
Good point Morf, everything you learn on your own will help. :aok
But if anyone needs help with basics, explanations, or learning BFM we do that too. :D