Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wpeters on November 21, 2014, 11:38:29 AM
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The other day I was talking with one of you guys and a thought was brought up that I thought maybe was worth sharing with you. I know much of this has been discussed in the past.
We were talking about how unique this game is compared to many sims. I also know how many times we knock the way HTC has set his business model. OK, we have a flight simulator game that has extremely stable flight characteristics. We also offer a mass system of ground warfare as far as vehicles go. This also includes the aspect that we have a game that is a MMO with server capacity of 600 players. With equalizing of the game through a 3rd Country... We have new graphic's update on the way which looks amazing in many aspects...
I guess the point I am going to bring up is HTC has set themselves up in very unique way with a option to become extremely unique. It is this. I believe that we could become one of the only games that could accurately simulate WWll in more ways. Right now WWll online is the only simulator that is built around WWll in all aspects. Land (gv and FPS), naval and air. Except that this game came out in 2006 with worse graphics than our game.
I would like to see HTC start modeling some parts to this game that could be similar WWll online. Antitank, Snipers, Infantry and Engineers(attach explosives to objects) right now.With the option for rifle men, grenadiers, machine gunners and sub-machine gunners. I can only think of the battles that would happen around TT with them involved. Spawn points for the infantry would have to be moved closer to a objective but. Maybe something like a FOB some foxholes and bunkers or tents.
It is why I bring this up is their is no one in the market right now that can really cater to that niche in the market.
Last of all is when you would choose to spawn a person you could choose what nationality you wanted and therefore the corresponding weapon. Also when Barrack are down at a base there is know way of spawning at that base as a person.
To add this into the game would also require 10 Ai troops to capture a base or 3 players or a combination of both.
Just thought it would make this a one of kind WWll sim and bring many more players. :salute
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You describe the holy grail of simulators.
I don't mean to be negative, but there is a reason such a comprehensive simulator doesn't exist. In one word: Scale.
First, the scale in numbers of people in each branch of the service. The air forces were small in comparison to the land forces. There would need to be thousands of first person shooter people for the several hundred pilots.
Second, the scale of time and distance. A battle on the ground might cover a few miles. A aircraft can cross that distance in one minute.
I see the appeal of such a monster of a simulator. It will be a while, if ever, that such a thing is marketable.
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Won't happen with the current # of players
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Well if we get more players that come for infantry action, then a lot of the air combat probably won't change since these new players will be on the ground. :mad:
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A lot of people come here seeming to think it's just as simple as 'flipping the FPS switch'. Take a good look at any FPS that's been made in the last 4-5 years. There is a metric ton of artwork and animation that goes into making the characters and guns move correctly, none of which currently exists in this game.
Also consider the graphics and terrain update screenshots we've seen. Ok for a vehicle game? Yes. Good enough to create a decent FPS experience? I don't think so. Put the new town from the tank video HTC showed a while back beside COD. There is a subtle difference.
It would be a far more extensive and time consuming change than the graphic update.
Also the scale stuff Rufus mentioned. Doing such a thing would require hundreds of people in a small area all logged in and working at the same time. Not afk in a foxhole burping their baby, not outside having a smoke, not popping in and out of game every ten minutes but all active and somewhat coordinated. Otherwise it would be simple chaos.
Wiley.
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A lot of people come here seeming to think it's just as simple as 'flipping the FPS switch'. Take a good look at any FPS that's been made in the last 4-5 years. There is a metric ton of artwork and animation that goes into making the characters and guns move correctly, none of which currently exists in this game.
Also consider the graphics and terrain update screenshots we've seen. Ok for a vehicle game? Yes. Good enough to create a decent FPS experience? I don't think so. Put the new town from the tank video HTC showed a while back beside COD. There is a subtle difference.
It would be a far more extensive and time consuming change than the graphic update.
Also the scale stuff Rufus mentioned. Doing such a thing would require hundreds of people in a small area all logged in and working at the same time. Not afk in a foxhole burping their baby, not outside having a smoke, not popping in and out of game every ten minutes but all active and somewhat coordinated. Otherwise it would be simple chaos.
Wiley.
That is true but also have you looked at the graphics of WWll online. Look at what they have. I'd just like I am saying people will come for the experience not the graphics so much. Think of the battles TT on the crater map. To add those first 4 I said. Would make the game hit a whole new simulation level. Also I know it would be nice to have houses to in.. But I would love to spawn in with 4-5 satchel charges and run like hell to get behind Cover before she blows. Or be a sniper picking off other anti tank players
I am talking about adding to the experience. Graphics don't mean a lot in the sense that they have to be CoD style. If the experience is addictive the players will come back no matter. Look at us if we wanted graphics we would be with War Thunder.
My suggestion is try those 4 types. If everyone likes it expand. You could even offer free infantry. In the end if it fills the arena it is a plus. U sooner play with 500 people than the 250 that we see today.
Remember it is how the game makes u fill that keeps you,not the graphics.
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If you wouldn't mind humoring me...
I had no idea that WWII Online was even still around. At the time of the first Aces High Convention, Cornered Rat Software had the game in pre-Alpha, and HT and Pyro introduced two of the principal coders during the Con. Nice guys - also from North Dallas - if I remember correctly.
The humoring part. Do you have a sense of how many players are left in WWII online? I skimmed their forums and didn't see many clues about population.
You have an interesting idea, WP. There is the notion of scale (as mentioned). CRS says on their website that everything is on one server. Based on what I know about WWII Online (from their beta a million years ago) was that the battle maps were basically small which meant that the airwar component was 'cramped'. That's why I didn't make it past the beta. Take off, climb safely for not long enough, furball at medium alt down to the deck, run out of ammo, and then run home (if you were lucky). I wonder how big the server farm would have to be to have our airwar scale with FPS added in?
No harm in talking about it.
:salute
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All good points for and against.
I brought this very idea up in a tread in GD about 6 months ago, the "if you were in charge what would you do" one.
IMO blending some free to play with our current game COULD work in terms of getting more subs and players. This is how:
By creating a simple yet fun infantry and artillery experience, one where you could steer little groups of simple soldiers about like we drive tanks, and use the jeeps and GV transports to move them as well as letting them move more slowly on foot. Incorporate some arty and mortars and such, and MGs etc for squads to employ. It would also give the MGs on tanks something to do other than shoot at the very rare troop landings. Anyhow, allow say 200 or so players in the arena to play these things for FREE. They would mostly be targets for aircraft and other GVs, but it WOULD get people involved in the game that otherwise wouldn't be, and attract a certain percentage to getting the full subscription, so they too could fly planes and use the GVs other than say the Jeep and M16 and a towed arty piece.
It would do a few things IMO - give guys who like attacking ground stuff a lot of fun targets (infantry strafing, what more could you want, haha), it would create new kinds of fights regarding taking bases, it would give GVs more to do (attacking infantry formations), and it would most importantly bring new blood into the game. Yes, the 200 slots for infantry/jeep/arty would be FREE in my idea, without access to any of the other stuff in the game, but many of these guys would sub up I believe. Even when they wouldn't, it would give subscribers more targets and stuff to do like I said, which creates a circular fun environment which increases overall subscribers all round IMO.
The graphics wouldn't have to be any better than the troops we have now IMO, it wouldn't be a "fps" per say, just controlling small groups of troops at squad and platoon level say, and moving them about in GVs or with the wsad tank controls while on foot. There could be rifles, MGs, mortars, Bazookas/Panzerfaust, Solothurns (20mm rifle pew pew pew), as well as being able to use crew served weapons like stationary guns and perhaps a mobile arty piece like I said.
Anyhow, I like the OP idea, as mine above was one I thought could help at little cost to HTC (I'm sure HT could make something like this work in days). I fully believe that. Remember the "Claw" and Mothership HT whipped up for that Con one year? I swear, if they gave the Claw a Battlestar Galactica skin, they could have marketed that game and made a lot of $, having battlestars and fighters in space combat. Making something like that - I have full confidence HT could make little infantry group units with say a 1/2 dozen weapon systems, and some towed arty pieces. I think it would be a lot of fun.
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F2P plane set? Very basic planes. D3A. B25. P47. 109. Spit. And that's it. they can play as long as they with those planes. All the other planes come with the (more reasonable) $9.99/Month.
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I've thought about that too Jolly, I'm sure HTC has as well.
I remember going through the big price drop, this game was 29.95 the first while it was out, which in Canadian $ was 55$ at the time. Dropping the price had many effects, I"m sure Skuzzy/HT could list a lot of pros and cons, hopefully mostly pros.
I don't know if a price drop of 5$ would benefit them. In order for it to be financially sound, they would need an increase of 33% in subs, n'est pas? I don't think a price drop of that kind would increase the interest that much. If you can afford 10, you can surely afford 15, so I don't see price as being a huge factor right now. Just my opinion.
Your FPT idea is similar to mine, just with a few certain a/c. I could get on board with adding a few planes like you said to my idea, really neutered planes though, in order for the model of generating interest in the more complex and effective planes to have a chance to work
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I've thought about that too Jolly, I'm sure HTC has as well.
I remember going through the big price drop, this game was 29.95 the first while it was out, which in Canadian $ was 55$ at the time. Dropping the price had many effects, I"m sure Skuzzy/HT could list a lot of pros and cons, hopefully mostly pros.
I don't know if a price drop of 5$ would benefit them. In order for it to be financially sound, they would need an increase of 33% in subs, n'est pas? I don't think a price drop of that kind would increase the interest that much. If you can afford 10, you can surely afford 15, so I don't see price as being a huge factor right now. Just my opinion.
Your FPT idea is similar to mine, just with a few certain a/c. I could get on board with adding a few planes like you said to my idea, really neutered planes though, in order for the model of generating interest in the more complex and effective planes to have a chance to work
Well I look at it like this. Most people playing computer games these days are kids >20. Most games per month, are sub $10. To kids, $15 is a lot more than $10. I honestly think it would make a huge difference once the graphics come out.
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If you wouldn't mind humoring me...
I had no idea that WWII Online was even still around. At the time of the first Aces High Convention, Cornered Rat Software had the game in pre-Alpha, and HT and Pyro introduced two of the principal coders during the Con. Nice guys - also from North Dallas - if I remember correctly.
The humoring part. Do you have a sense of how many players are left in WWII online? I skimmed their forums and didn't see many clues about population.
You have an interesting idea, WP. There is the notion of scale (as mentioned). CRS says on their website that everything is on one server. Based on what I know about WWII Online (from their beta a million years ago) was that the battle maps were basically small which meant that the airwar component was 'cramped'. That's why I didn't make it past the beta. Take off, climb safely for not long enough, furball at medium alt down to the deck, run out of ammo, and then run home (if you were lucky). I wonder how big the server farm would have to be to have our airwar scale with FPS added in?
No harm in talking about it.
:salute
Yes that makes sense. But remember I said that if HTC took it they would be the one up on everyone else. They would have the monopoly. How much fun would it be to sneak up behind Dr7 and drop a grenade in the open top of m18.
Those of you out there that have experience in graphic design speak up. But tell me how hard would it be to make or model 4 set of Infantry from 2 nations. It shouldn't be that hard. Programing the GPS controls might take a little time.
But my inexperience tells me you could have 3-4 types of troops in a month. Just tossing that out their.
To me it just would make more fun to do that type of stuff. Tight now I take a little time every week to play some sort of Fps and I love that type of game play
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Remember it is how the game makes u fill that keeps you,not the graphics.
Up to a point, but when you're considering Quake 1 levels of detail versus what else is available, I'm sorry but the number of people that would be willing to put up with it is infinitesimal.
Wiley.
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Most people playing computer games these days are kids >20.
pretty sure you mean under 20, and I'm pretty sure it's wrong..
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp
average age 31, 71% over the age of 18, 39% 36 or older, etc. etc.
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pretty sure you mean under 20, and I'm pretty sure it's wrong..
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp
average age 31, 71% over the age of 18, 39% 36 or older, etc. etc.
Really? lol wow. Any other game I play I'm bombarded with squeekers... Maybe I'm playing kiddie games? :cry
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Really? lol wow. Any other game I play I'm bombarded with squeekers... Maybe I'm playing kiddie games? :cry
"My lil pony online" might indeed have a somewhat lower average age :old:
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Really? lol wow. Any other game I play I'm bombarded with squeekers... Maybe I'm playing kiddie games? :cry
Most action games I've seen appear to be populated by squeakers who communicate via homophobic racism.
"My lil pony online" might indeed have a somewhat lower average age :old:
One word- Bronies. I bet the average age would be a LOT higher than you'd expect for that. ;)
Wiley.
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Most action games I've seen appear to be populated by squeakers who communicate via homophobic racism.
One word- Bronies. I bet the average age would be a LOT higher than you'd expect for that. ;)
Wiley.
It's absolutely shocking: I believe you are right :uhoh
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This kind of talk makes me think of some kind of convergence of hardware and software that results in a non proprietary persistent world of global scale that can host all kinds of interaction. I know that the reality of these games is not this powerful and is probably more akin to the fixed paths of early fps like doom where by today's light the zippers on the costumes are showing. Sort of like the oceans in ah, they aren't modeled they are photoshopped.
I personally don't really enjoy the fps type games, my mind can't suspend disbelief in the games, I know I'm not running or aiming or jumping. I could never play a flight sim with a mouse, it is integral to my experience that there be some analog to the real world controls of airplanes, stick and rudder. This is why I really appreciate this game. I also really appreciate the view system, it is the only flight sim I have tried where I don't feel like simply looking around is onerous.
The wine is talking.
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By creating a simple yet fun infantry and artillery experience, . . .
If the players have a hand in designing the game it would be a bit like too many cooks in the kitchen. HTC may have deeper pockets then the OP assumes. We don't know. The point I would make is that before any such thing was taken up as a project it would have to be very carefully considered and designed so as not to waste a single hour of development time. Inevitably there will always be some waste, but the point is not to waste the time of a modeler, or animator who will end up costing the company the most money. Fleshing out the game the way it has been suggested would be time consuming and costly and I would have to consider that they have already taken several different approaches into consideration.
I can also tell you that there is a big difference between AI infantry (even well rigged infantry) and FPS infantry. Just one aspect that changes is viewing distance. Infantry does not have the privilege of viewing quite the same distance that a pilot at high altitude might, and so the models might also have much higher polygon counts. While a low poly model can be fully built, textured, rigged, weighted, animated, audited, LOD'd, and QSC'd in a month a high poly model will take that much time just in building.
Then there is the collection of motion data for animation. While motion and animation can be pose-to-pose driven this will lower the level of QSC you can expect, but also help keep costs down. And that's the larger point; that each added element drives the costs of development higher and all of that affects how much you may see change in the end. The way I see it this is a much bigger request than the OP realizes.
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Won't happen with the current # of players
Dude You have been here for a very small amount of time. the numbers aren't bad. Seen worse
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Dude You have been here for a very small amount of time. the numbers aren't bad. Seen worse
When?
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Remember new products attract more customers
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Remember new products attract more customers
So do one with ads, decent graphics, and good gameplay. AH is starting to show its age, attracting fewer players and driving away even more players currently playing. Most players have 2 or more stars when I play.
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So do one with ads, decent graphics, and good gameplay. AH is starting to show its age, attracting fewer players and driving away even more players currently playing. Most players have 2 or more stars when I play.
...and most of the ones who don't have two stars could if they put their mind to it or hadn't changed their name / quit and came back.
In other words...I agree with your points. I'd just add that some players not so much driven away as much as quitting out of boredom. :salute
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Any of you considered what the end game of this is going to be. Once you drive yourselves down to the bottom of this rabbit hole of doom, gloom, and HiTech is an old poopy head. Will any of you not be damaged goods no matter what he rolls out in the future?
All of you have made your point loudly and in gory Technicolor for about 2 loud years now. Which constitutes negative customer reviews, and we know, in the real world reviews matter and effect new customer purchasing decisions. Or is that your long game because you are unhappy and so far are getting away with this negativity?
So are you guys attempting to finish off AH for the competitors, or just addicted to getting away with trashing HiTech? While contributing to driving away new, current, and old customers as an unintended consequence of feeding off each others negativity and sour grapes?
You guys are a couple of galaxies past healthy constructive criticism.
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I just went and googled the thing just to get a clue as to what you guys were talking about.
This caught my eye: Platforms: Microsoft Windows, Macintosh, OS X
I have meaning to post something about platforms for a while. Might as well do it now.
In our house we two PCs that run Windows. Dad's gaming PC and Dad's laptop for work.
Wife and kids, all moved to something else. MacBook, chrome books, tablets (all sorts), smartphones and even an Ubuntu box (for multimedia). I'm just trying to think of any friends that the kids have that might run windows and I can not think of any. Kids are: 1 out of college, 1 in college, 1 on their way to college (so we hope :confused:). (Almost forgot we have an xbox 360 and older but still working PS2).
The Kids are NOT interested in Windows. (And at the office we only stay on it for the office products b/c we need to stay in sync with clients).
Do any of these game development engines generate thin client (browser) games that have good graphics and good performance?
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All of you have made your point loudly and in gory Technicolor for about 2 loud years now. Which constitutes negative customer reviews, and we know, in the real world reviews matter and effect new customer purchasing decisions.
I do agree with you in the sense that I think comments should be positive or framed in a non-negative way.
However;
I'm all for only allowing paying customers access to the BBS. (Maybe keep one forum public so people can check out game).
Can be viewed as one of the features that you gain access to when you sub. I know tech companies that only allow paying customers onto the forums.
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Any of you considered what the end game of this is going to be. Once you drive yourselves down to the bottom of this rabbit hole of doom, gloom, and HiTech is an old poopy head. Will any of you not be damaged goods no matter what he rolls out in the future?
All of you have made your point loudly and in gory Technicolor for about 2 loud years now. Which constitutes negative customer reviews, and we know, in the real world reviews matter and effect new customer purchasing decisions. Or is that your long game because you are unhappy and so far are getting away with this negativity?
So are you guys attempting to finish off AH for the competitors, or just addicted to getting away with trashing HiTech? While contributing to driving away new, current, and old customers as an unintended consequence of feeding off each others negativity and sour grapes?
You guys are a couple of galaxies past healthy constructive criticism.
I do not believe anyone is trying to do so. I know I'm not.
What do you mean by "healthy constructive criticism"? Ignoring that users are leaving? Not disclosing why they are doing so for fear of driving away prospective new customers? I know AH pilots who have left and have done so because, quite frankly, they were bored with the gameplay. I find myself playing the game less and less because again, quite frankly, I am bored with the gameplay. Should we not say this? How by doing so am I trashing HiTech or AH?
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Why don't you and your cohorts simply start a web sight to tell the world you are bored with the game play? Otherwise, why are you and your cohorts repeating it at HiTech as many times as you can get away with it? Eventually it goes beyond registering a complaint when it becomes a community HiTech trashing party for not listening to you and your cohorts.
Why are you continuing to complain in an open forum you know potential new customers can read? Continuing to complain is driving down a rabbit hole that will leave you and those driving with you damaged goods, and habituated to complaining, and predisposed to never being satisfied with HiTech. Eventually the complaining becomes the emotional reward at HiTech's expense anytime you need a pickup, or you have a bad time in the MA or these forums.
There is now nothing to gain, other than what appears to be an addiction to the complaining. The only other reward, is getting away with being able to trash HiTech. And in his own house, because you are unhappy with him not answering you and your like minded cohorts. Or changing his creation to suit your needs because you have registered a complaint.
"I am bored with the gameplay!"
So because you and probably your cohorts are bored, you are going to help drive away customers. Until you get what you want from HiTech by complaining long after it had some meaning. Wow!!
If this were on television, I would think WT was paying you guys for this.
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Why don't you and your cohorts simply start a web sight to tell the world you are bored with the game play? Otherwise, why are you and your cohorts repeating it at HiTech as many times as you can get away with it? Eventually it goes beyond registering a complaint when it becomes a community HiTech trashing party for not listening to you and your cohorts.
Why are you continuing to complain in an open forum you know potential new customers can read? Continuing to complain is driving down a rabbit hole that will leave you and those driving with you damaged goods, and habituated to complaining, and predisposed to never being satisfied with HiTech. Eventually the complaining becomes the emotional reward at HiTech's expense anytime you need a pickup, or you have a bad time in the MA or these forums.
There is now nothing to gain, other than what appears to be an addiction to the complaining. The only other reward, is getting away with being able to trash HiTech. And in his own house, because you are unhappy with him not answering you and your like minded cohorts. Or changing his creation to suit your needs because you have registered a complaint.
"I am bored with the gameplay!"
So because you and probably your cohorts are bored, you are going to help drive away customers. Until you get what you want from HiTech by complaining long after it had some meaning. Wow!!
If this were on television, I would think WT was paying you guys for this.
I don't think Hitech and crew play the game like they use to. This game, while basically the same game that it has always been with great and continuing updates is PLAYED vastly different than it use to be. I say that because when we had the issues were 8-10 missions/attacks were NOE people complained for a while and nothing happened. Then one Monday morning radar was changed and slammed to the ground. You couldn't go wheels up with out showing a dar bar. My guess is that the Sunday night before that morning Hitech jumped in the game for a few fights... maybe his wife was at the baby shower and he had some down time :D He logged in and couldn't catch up to the fights as the horde was playing "wack a mole" hiding under the dar.
We make these post to help inform HTC of issues we see, that they may not. I know if I was coading a game for 12 hours a day 6 days a week the last thing I'd be doing is playing it when I got home.
Personally I try to point out that I still love the game.....it's the only one I play. I have been here over 11 YEARS playing this game. I'm not trying to "trash" the game, I'm trying to help keep it going and make it better. It's too bad HTC can't/won't take the time to to try to keep the player base informed. Little tid-bits like that change they may be doing to the kneeboard to let you know if it is safe to land your GV or not, could go a long way in keeping players holding on. Someone posts and idea and someone from HTC posts back "we will look into it", or "it won't work because....".
Most of these threads start out with good intentions. If they got a comment from HTC soon enough less of them would turn sour.
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Well if we get more players that come for infantry action, then a lot of the air combat probably won't change since these new players will be on the ground. :mad:
That would not be necessarily a bad thing. Grounders do what they like, pilots do what they like.
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There would be some maps were there would be little infantry action. But you get those maps especially TT you would be shocked I think at how many would join the Fps role