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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RotBaron on December 29, 2014, 01:37:00 AM

Title: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on December 29, 2014, 01:37:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf7nyTdwsHU

D-13 starting up 5:00

For Latrobe: yellow nosed G-6 in beginning.

I'm going to have to have a little discussion with my friend, grrr how could I have not been invited this day! An outrage! His grandfather and Galland worked on helping Champlain get on its feet and some of the birds get there.

Sadly Champlain is gone to Seattle, we now have a CAF museum in its place which does a great job too.

C'mon I could have helped get that baby started. I guess as HS freshmen we were more interested in other pretty thangs.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Brooke on December 29, 2014, 04:06:12 AM
Sadly Champlain is gone to Seattle

Not sad for me (being near both The Museum of Flight and the Flying Heritage Collection).
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 29, 2014, 04:40:36 AM
The engines probably started a little better back in the day when they were daily drivers.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on December 29, 2014, 08:41:05 AM
Neuter?! That implies as if it is overpowered in some way...everything I have heard people around here say it's that it doesn't work and actually makes you lose E
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: hitech on December 29, 2014, 09:11:07 AM
Are you referring to in air or on ground starts?

HiTech
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 09:19:40 AM
I would guess in air during a fight.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slate on December 29, 2014, 11:58:23 AM
  My favorite engine starting scene   :D (Movie clip) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Canspec on December 29, 2014, 12:13:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65qrzgbTTcQ
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 29, 2014, 01:04:29 PM
Cold starting an engine is very different from an air restart. Cold starts require sending fuel to the engine, setting the mixture for ground start, etc. While a ground start might take minutes, once the engine is started and the propeller is turning, restarting the engine is effortless. In reciprocating engines, it's just a matter of ensuring the fuel pump is on and the mixture is open. Restart is simply a matter of turning the key at that point and the power comes back almost instantaneously.

Unless you're suggesting a more complex ground start sequence (such as in DCS), there's nothing really to be fixed.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Copprhed on December 29, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
Then, as I'm sure occasionally happened, if you turn your engine off in flight(I do to correct a stall some times), when you go to turn it back on, have the engine fail, or fail to immediately start.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: dirtdart on December 29, 2014, 02:54:58 PM
The illusion that killing the engine bleeds E faster than just going to idle?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kingpin on December 29, 2014, 03:19:10 PM
The illusion that killing the engine bleeds E faster than just going to idle?


Oh, I always assumed they did it so they could better hear the rounds impacting their airplane.   :)

I have examples on film, but this one by Dolby is chock-full of it:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHQsXhS_7k
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Canspec on December 29, 2014, 03:45:02 PM

Oh, I always assumed they did it so they could better hear the rounds impacting their airplane.   :)

I have examples on film, but this one by Dolby is chock-full of it:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHQsXhS_7k

The films are old, they are better than that now. I think they use it more in situations when removing the effect of torque from the game might give an advantage. The game makes it easy, so why not...and who really cares. No one comments about the many other maneuvers that the game allows and people use, but could not be done in a real aircraft.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Triton28 on December 29, 2014, 03:47:01 PM
-1

I know Skyyr knows this story, but I'll retell it for any of you that don't know it...  Brigadier General Robin Olds claims to be the only pilot in history to record a kill as a glider.  Olds was flying his P-38 one day while escorting some B-17's when he spotted over 50 109's preparing to attack the formation.  Despite being outnumbered 15 to 1, Olds ordered his flight to drop their tanks and get ready for a fight.  So excited was he, Olds dropped his tanks and forgot to switch his fuel feed, thus starving his Lockheed of power.  Undaunted, he promptly killed one of the 109's whilst gliding.  His wingman picked him up and killed two more while Olds was getting his Allison's back on-line, and the pair went on to save the heavies and spread death and fear through the Luftwaffe.  

The way I see it, if one of the most skilled and accomplished fighter pilots in American history can do it once by accident, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to do it over and over again in this video game on purpose.  For me, it adds to the immersion.    As a matter of fact, I have a tiny picture of Brig. Gen. Olds taped to an open spot right above the button I have mapped for the engines... thinking of him each time I cut my engines in a fight.  

 :salute Brig. Gen. Robin Olds
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 03:53:02 PM
Bombers saving bombers. Heart warming.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 29, 2014, 03:54:50 PM
-1

I know Skyyr knows this story, but I'll retell it for any of you that don't know it...  Brigadier General Robin Olds claims to be the only pilot in history to record a kill as a glider.  Olds was flying his P-38 one day while escorting some B-17's when he spotted over 50 109's preparing to attack the formation.  Despite being outnumbered 15 to 1, Olds ordered his flight to drop their tanks and get ready for a fight.  So excited was he, Olds dropped his tanks and forgot to switch his fuel feed, thus starving his Lockheed of power.  Undaunted, he promptly killed one of the 109's whilst gliding.  His wingman picked him up and killed two more while Olds was getting his Allison's back on-line, and the pair went on to save the heavies and spread death and fear through the Luftwaffe.  

The way I see it, if one of the most skilled and accomplished fighter pilots in American history can do it once by accident, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to do it over and over again in this video game on purpose.  For me, it adds to the immersion.    As a matter of fact, I have a tiny picture of Brig. Gen. Olds taped to an open spot right above the button I have mapped for the engines... thinking of him each time I cut my engines in a fight.  

 :salute Brig. Gen. Robin Olds

To me it sounds that someone was lucky to survive the mistake and live to tell about it. We should not promote foolhardy getaway activity in the game.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Changeup on December 29, 2014, 03:56:26 PM
-1

I know Skyyr knows this story, but I'll retell it for any of you that don't know it...  Brigadier General Robin Olds claims to be the only pilot in history to record a kill as a glider.  Olds was flying his P-38 one day while escorting some B-17's when he spotted over 50 109's preparing to attack the formation.  Despite being outnumbered 15 to 1, Olds ordered his flight to drop their tanks and get ready for a fight.  So excited was he, Olds dropped his tanks and forgot to switch his fuel feed, thus starving his Lockheed of power.  Undaunted, he promptly killed one of the 109's whilst gliding.  His wingman picked him up and killed two more while Olds was getting his Allison's back on-line, and the pair went on to save the heavies and spread death and fear through the Luftwaffe.  

The way I see it, if one of the most skilled and accomplished fighter pilots in American history can do it once by accident, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to do it over and over again in this video game on purpose.  For me, it adds to the immersion.    As a matter of fact, I have a tiny picture of Brig. Gen. Olds taped to an open spot right above the button I have mapped for the engines... thinking of him each time I cut my engines in a fight.  

 :salute Brig. Gen. Robin Olds

BaHAHAHA!
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Krupinski on December 29, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
Did The Darned hack your account, Triton?  :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on December 29, 2014, 04:12:06 PM
Neuter?! That implies as if it is overpowered in some way...everything I have heard people around here say it's that it doesn't work and actually makes you lose E

 :rofl  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl

But remember Kruel....Winning a fight with "E" doesn't count either!




I know...it gets so confusing!  :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 29, 2014, 04:37:48 PM
Bombers saving bombers. Heart warming.

Ok, that's funny. :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Aspen on December 29, 2014, 04:43:10 PM
I'm not a pilot, but I assume it was little more involved than just tapping the "E" key to be back at full power instantly.  So, its gamey...as are a ton of other parts of the game.  I'm fine if hey make it more realistic (if it isn't) but it's probably somewhere on page 9 of stuff that matters.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: hitech on December 29, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
I'm not a pilot, but I assume it was little more involved than just tapping the "E" key to be back at full power instantly.  So, its gamey...as are a ton of other parts of the game.  I'm fine if hey make it more realistic (if it isn't) but it's probably somewhere on page 9 of stuff that matters.

It is not in any way complicated in most real planes. I've done it in real life while inverted before (was on wrong tank). I would also bet on long missions it was the norm for most pilots to have the engine stop producing power after a tank goes dry.

HiTech
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Canspec on December 29, 2014, 04:52:46 PM
I'm not a pilot, but I assume it was little more involved than just tapping the "E" key to be back at full power instantly.  So, its gamey...as are a ton of other parts of the game.  I'm fine if hey make it more realistic (if it isn't) but it's probably somewhere on page 9 of stuff that matters.

You are correct......it is gamey. Actually, people who have no flight experience can be better at this game because they have no preconceived notions about what an aircraft should or should not do. They just make the aircraft do whatever the game will allow.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Triton28 on December 29, 2014, 04:54:16 PM
Did The Darned hack your account, Triton?  :D

No.  Skyyr and I agree on a lot of things.  The hot start procedure for WWII era airplanes is just one of them.    
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Canspec on December 29, 2014, 04:59:06 PM
It is not in any way complicated in most real planes. I've done it in real life while inverted before (was on wrong tank). I would also bet on long missions it was the norm for most pilots to have the engine stop producing power after a tank goes dry.

HiTech

But I'll bet you sucked up a lot of seat until you figured out it was on the wrong tank... :old:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on December 29, 2014, 05:05:23 PM
Are you referring to in air or on ground starts?

HiTech

This was intended to be a parody of the "neutering of 109s" and not really anything too terribly serious.

However there is a small amount of sincerity in it where I have seen Skyyr and Kruel (I believe) use it to advantage. There are so many in here that say it actually does not help them at all, but rather kills there ability to retain E. I could swear I've seen the turn radius tighten with the engine off and the fact that it's full throttle seconds later does seem gamey to me.

If a hot start up in air is as easy as it is in game (pressing E) then I apologize for the annoyance and you having to spend anytime thinking about this.

 :salute

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Copprhed on December 29, 2014, 05:06:21 PM
But I'll bet you sucked up a lot of seat until you figured out it was on the wrong tank... :old:
Nah....he's got a hack for that...... :x  :bolt:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: pipz on December 29, 2014, 05:12:29 PM
It is not in any way complicated in most real planes. I've done it in real life while inverted before (was on wrong tank). I would also bet on long missions it was the norm for most pilots to have the engine stop producing power after a tank goes dry.

HiTech

Robin Olds did that in his 38. Droped his tank and forgot to switch to internal. Shot down a Hun while his engines were still off. He restarted his engines in flight.  :old:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 05:14:38 PM

If a hot start up in air is as easy as it is in game (pressing E) then I apologize for the annoyance and you having to spend anytime thinking about this.

 :salute


I did it once in my grandmother's Ford Granada when I was 16 and blew the muffler off it. :eek:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: hitech on December 29, 2014, 05:15:22 PM
If a hot start up in air is as easy as it is in game (pressing E) then I apologize for the annoyance and you having to spend anytime thinking about this.

Many single engine planes it is as simple as push 1 lever forward to run, back to stop. It really really is that simple.

But I'll bet you sucked up a lot of seat until you figured out it was on the wrong tank... :old:

Not really new instantly what was up,I  had more of a pucker the first time I was testing fuel usage by running a tank dry on the Cherokee 6, it has a strange thing of coming back to life in 1 or 2 seconds after fuel lever is moved, then stop again for 1 to 2 seconds then back to life. The first time it stopped again after starting gave me a little chill.

HiTech
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 05:15:36 PM
Robin Olds did that in his 38. Droped his tank and forgot to switch to internal. Shot down a Hun while his engines were still off. He restarted his engines in flight.  :old:
I heard about that.


Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: hitech on December 29, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
I did it once in my grandmother's Ford Granada when I was 16 and blew the muffler off it. :eek:

This is not the same thing, removing  spark  and returning it with out shutting off fuel from a plane is not a wise move in a plane. Fuel builds and then is ignited in the exhaust manifold.

HiTech
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 05:19:46 PM
This is not the same thing, removing  spark  and returning it with out shutting off fuel from a plane is not a wise move in a plane. Fuel builds and then is ignited in the exhaust manifold.

HiTech
Yeah, I was pretty sure there wasn't a muffler on the R-2800 Double Wasp. Probably a better fireball on the P&W too.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: pipz on December 29, 2014, 05:38:44 PM
I blew two mufflers out on a 71 Camaro a long time ago.  :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Hetzer7 on December 29, 2014, 05:41:54 PM
I blew two mufflers out on a 71 Camaro a long time ago.  :D

You must have quite a set of lungs, Mr. Pipz  :salute

:P
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Volron on December 29, 2014, 05:46:27 PM
You must have quite a set of lungs, Mr. Pipz  :salute

:P

 :lol
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: colmbo on December 29, 2014, 06:56:08 PM
CIn reciprocating engines, it's just a matter of ensuring the fuel pump is on and the mixture is open. Restart is simply a matter of turning the key at that point and the power comes back almost instantaneously.



If you used the mag switch (what I assume you're referring to as the key) to shut the engine off you're probably going to have a very rude awakening when you turn the ignition back on….little things like exhaust manifolds be cracked or separated, engine fire, etc.  Ever going roaring down the road and shut the switch off in your car then switch it back on?

Another problem that could pop up would be a runaway prop on restart.  These are quite stimulating.

In a general aviation light piston airplane it is a pretty simple thing to do an air restart.  With the bigger, higher performance engines used in combat aircraft it just isn't quite as simple all the time.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: guncrasher on December 29, 2014, 07:01:49 PM
I think the problem with one player shutting down the engine in middle of combat is that the other player is trying to blame somebody for not realizing early enough that he was going to overshoot engine on or off anyway.



semp
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 29, 2014, 07:27:06 PM
If you used the mag switch (what I assume you're referring to as the key) to shut the engine off you're probably going to have a very rude awakening when you turn the ignition back on….little things like exhaust manifolds be cracked or separated, engine fire, etc.  Ever going roaring down the road and shut the switch off in your car then switch it back on?

Another problem that could pop up would be a runaway prop on restart.  These are quite stimulating.

In a general aviation light piston airplane it is a pretty simple thing to do an air restart.  With the bigger, higher performance engines used in combat aircraft it just isn't quite as simple all the time.

I was actually referring to the starter (which was key controlled in the majority of aircraft I've done air restarts in) to help start the rotation on a completely stopped prop, if necessary. Obviously it wouldn't be necessary if it was still windmilling.

We had one student pilot start the engine on the ground, then kill it with the mag switch while leaving the fuel pump running, and then immediately try to restart. He all but flooded it, with Av LL trickling onto the tarmac. He got a serious talking to about procedures after that.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SkyRock on December 29, 2014, 07:35:07 PM
and who really cares.
:aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: The Fugitive on December 29, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
You must have quite a set of lungs, Mr. Pipz  :salute

:P


jeezzz have you never heard him sing?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on December 29, 2014, 09:52:42 PM
It is not in any way complicated in most real planes. I've done it in real life while inverted before (was on wrong tank). I would also bet on long missions it was the norm for most pilots to have the engine stop producing power after a tank goes dry.

HiTech

Looks like its here to stay!
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on December 29, 2014, 10:40:14 PM
Looks like its here to stay!
Like herpes!
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Changeup on December 29, 2014, 10:53:12 PM
Like herpes!

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: GhostCDB on December 29, 2014, 11:45:43 PM
Gotta love all the irl pilots and WWII pilots in this thread.  :noid
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on December 30, 2014, 01:25:27 PM
Gotta love all the irl pilots and WWII pilots in this thread.  :noid

 :old:

 :confused:

 :huh

 :uhoh

 :bolt:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on December 30, 2014, 02:29:29 PM
I have never read about any incident where WWII pilot purposely cut power to his crate's engine to gain an ACM advantage in combat.  Can anyone provide such an example?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -pjk-- on December 30, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
I have never read about any incident where WWII pilot purposely cut power to his crate's engine to gain an ACM advantage in combat.  Can anyone provide such an example?
Same here, but i have done loops, split-S, snaprolls and hammerheads engine off in 150 aerobat. Just mixture off and eng goes on when push mixture back :devil
Good old times :D

 
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on December 30, 2014, 02:53:14 PM
Same here, but i have done loops, split-S, snaprolls and hammerheads engine off in 150 aerobat. Just mixture off and eng goes on when push mixture back :devil
Good old times :D

 

Which unit were you assigned to? :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -pjk-- on December 30, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
Heh, i put this to language barrier;-) I have never heard what you asked, but flying engine off and "even going vertical maneuvering " is about "easy" if you know what you are doing :D

Greeting from Lapland :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Triton28 on December 30, 2014, 03:07:04 PM
I have never read about any incident where WWII pilot purposely cut power to his crate's engine to gain an ACM advantage in combat.  Can anyone provide such an example?

No such example exists.  We also don't know how long it took Brig. Gen. Robin Olds to restart his laboring Lockheed.  We're lead to believe it was at least several seconds after he confirmed the 109 going down.  

None of that matters though.  I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "If it was done once by some dude somewhere, it was meant to be done repeatedly by everyone".  
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: bustr on December 30, 2014, 04:08:36 PM
From a WW2 fighter plane engine perspective, that period's technology.

Is there a difference in the engine shutting down by running out of fuel first, then the pilot restarting it after switching to a tank with fuel. Versus, killing the engine in flight?

My father before he died was a commercial multi engine pilot and instructor. He was working on his commercial jet ticket in his 60's when he got a pace maker and grounded. For a while he flew Beach 18 for Mountain Air out of BWI. I got right seat ride alongs with him when I was home from college. During one of them he had to practice killing one engine and recovering from that. There was no blip and it was turned off nor a blip and it turned back on. That was more possible in an L19, T-41, Voyager, 150, or 172 we used to fly out of Ft. Meade. And the Storch in our game. Single engine small craft engines and their management are not as complex as the fighter engines our game duplicates. Not every civilian pilot will ever move up the food chain to multi engine, commercial, or high performance. So a certain amount of simplicity is inherit to the class of aircraft.

If you are that worried about the other guy turning of his engine, turn up your sound for his engine to 100% and use zoom to watch his prop blades. But, our instantaneous blipping off and on of high performance engines. Slightly gamey.

This post is not the way to get this changed. And being in the game, it's just one more tool in the kit to help newer players while the more clever greif each other with it. I would say an unintended consequence from the game's ease of playability balancing act.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: pipz on December 30, 2014, 04:55:16 PM
You must have quite a set of lungs, Mr. Pipz  :salute

:P

 :rofl  :cheers:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Volron on December 30, 2014, 04:58:57 PM
Like herpes!

WTF...   :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on December 30, 2014, 08:37:48 PM
It is not in any way complicated in most real planes. I've done it in real life while inverted before (was on wrong tank). I would also bet on long missions it was the norm for most pilots to have the engine stop producing power after a tank goes dry.

HiTech

I second Hitech, the difference is only on how long the engine is off. We used to run the fuel tanks dry flying the 402s. The engine sputters, sometimes stops and restarts by itself when you switch tanks as long as you do it right away. If you allow the prop to stop for too long, the fuel will vapor lock and it will be a &^%$# to restart. As Skyrr mentioned, crank it with the starter and play around with the mixture ... the longer u wait the harder to start and the more damage you do with shock cooling.

On a turbo prop like the Metroliner (direct turbine) you just hit start switch. If the prop is feathered you hold the 'electric unfeather' till you get some rotation and hit the start switch. The longer you wait, the cooler the engine gets and the harder it is to restart. On my Pitatus (free turbine) you look at the gas turbine speed. Over 75% hit continuous ignition, under 75% hit 'starter'.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the OP relates to a flaw/limitation in the flight modeling where props have way too much torque at idle making the plane do weird stuffs. To counter that and make clean hammerheads for example, some shut the engine off.

Here, see the difference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586lFSpIxsw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586lFSpIxsw)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 30, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
If they want to cut their engine. Let them cut their engine. Doesnt matter to me. In fact I welcome it as it more easily tells me what they are doing.

Start looking at it from that perspective and it wont matter to you either
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on December 31, 2014, 04:18:53 AM
At the top of a loop to get it around enough to shoot "front qtr panel"....
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: dirtdart on December 31, 2014, 05:31:23 AM
On a constant speed prop, when power is cut, what does the prop do?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 31, 2014, 08:18:02 AM
On a constant speed prop, when power is cut, what does the prop do?

That has no relevance to the game. You must ask what does it do in game. :)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: colmbo on December 31, 2014, 09:27:54 AM
On a constant speed prop, when power is cut, what does the prop do?

Attempts to maintain the set RPM until oil pressure is lost, then most props go to the "high rpm" angle.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Changeup on December 31, 2014, 09:47:03 AM
I second Hitech, the difference is only on how long the engine is off. We used to run the fuel tanks dry flying the 402s. The engine sputters, sometimes stops and restarts by itself when you switch tanks as long as you do it right away. If you allow the prop to stop for too long, the fuel will vapor lock and it will be a &^%$# to restart. As Skyrr mentioned, crank it with the starter and play around with the mixture ... the longer u wait the harder to start and the more damage you do with shock cooling.

On a turbo prop like the Metroliner (direct turbine) you just hit start switch. If the prop is feathered you hold the 'electric unfeather' till you get some rotation and hit the start switch. The longer you wait, the cooler the engine gets and the harder it is to restart. On my Pitatus (free turbine) you look at the gas turbine speed. Over 75% hit continuous ignition, under 75% hit 'starter'.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the OP relates to a flaw/limitation in the flight modeling where props have way too much torque at idle making the plane do weird stuffs. To counter that and make clean hammerheads for example, some shut the engine off.

Here, see the difference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586lFSpIxsw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586lFSpIxsw)

I'm curious.  Is this 1944-45 technology or are more current aircraft fitted with these types of starters etc?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: kvuo75 on December 31, 2014, 10:49:03 AM
Attempts to maintain the set RPM until oil pressure is lost, then most props go to the "high rpm" angle.

which means they will be windmilling..

i think people are confusing a windmilling but not producing power engine, and an actual stopped engine.

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: GhostCDB on December 31, 2014, 10:50:52 AM
Where is/are the all knowing AH Demi-God(s) AKAK and semp.

They always have answers to threads like this. Answers I enjoy reading and laughing at.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 10:58:48 AM
i think people are confusing a windmilling but not producing power engine, and an actual stopped engine.

Provided there is fuel and the engine hasn't vapor locked, the only difference is that you'd turn the starter. Restart procedures for most recips with constant-speed props have "prop full forward" (high rpm) as a checklist item, which means that once any movement is introduced, the mass airflow over the propellor will keep it rotating.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on December 31, 2014, 11:30:19 AM
Technical stuff set aside, no real pilot would purposely cut his engine(s) in a combat situation.  Which, makes the practice to do so in AH gamey.  

Having said that, it doesn't bother me to face a pilot that does this.  I don't think it gains them an advantage.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: hitech on December 31, 2014, 11:32:34 AM
Also do not confuse the difference between featherable props (most multi engine planes) and single engine planes who's props will not feather and hence will keep turning unless the plane is to slow, or something has locked up the engine.

In AH if the prop has stopped turning it does not start instantly like the single engines planes do.

HiTech
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: GhostCDB on December 31, 2014, 11:56:23 AM
Technical stuff set aside, no real pilot would purposely cut his engine(s) in a combat situation.  Which, makes the practice to do so in AH gamey.  

Having said that, it doesn't bother me to face a pilot that does this.  I don't think it gains them an advantage.

You think it doesn't.

Sawzaw fell to this "disadvantage" many times back to back to back. All he could say was

"You're such a noob" - Yet I killed him
"Stop cutting your engine it doesn't do anything" - Yet I rolled on top of him every time

He is the most memorable one I have done this against because he raged and called me a noob even despite him being sent to the tower in his OWN ride. I do not acclaim to being good in the K4 or any ride for that matter but when you are killed in a ride you "specialize" in, I guess it does hurt the ego a bit.

Now, don't get it confused. I don't just cut my engine when I am too lazy to throttle back. There is reason behind the cutting of my engine. I always identify what type of fight it is before I make decisions like such. If you are going to E fight me I have no reason to cut my engine cause it takes away from my energy. Now if you're BnZ'ing someone or energy fighting someone and they cut their engine fighting you maybe they aren't sure how it works.

If you can't escalate on your opponents mistake then it doesn't matter if cutting their engine gives you an advantage or disadvantage.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 12:52:57 PM
At the top of a loop to get it around enough to shoot "front qtr panel"....

Ah, the truth becomes evident. Someone got hit with a front-quarter shot while being roped by an opponent who turned their engine off at the top of the climb.

Is there some sort of problem with this?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: JUDAS on December 31, 2014, 01:01:35 PM
for the past week I have been cutting my engine off too!!  lmaoo IM NOT GONNA TELL YOU WHY(or why other do*but I know*) ..just know now...I do too! :devil
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on December 31, 2014, 01:08:40 PM
Ah, the truth becomes evident. Someone got hit with a front-quarter shot while being roped by an opponent who turned their engine off at the top of the climb.

Is there some sort of problem with this?

Naa, it's a tactic some have learned to use to their advantage, but it is still gamey.  It's also a small reflection of what AH really is and is not - a video game and not a WWII historical flight simulator
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 01:58:51 PM
for the past week I have been cutting my engine off too!!  lmaoo IM NOT GONNA TELL YOU WHY(or why other do*but I know*) ..just know now...I do too! :devil

Welcome to the club  :aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on December 31, 2014, 03:09:20 PM
Ah, the truth becomes evident. Someone got hit with a front-quarter shot while being roped by an opponent who turned their engine off at the top of the climb.

Is there some sort of problem with this?

I'd have thought the OP title was pretty clear, not hiding any truth. It feels gamey to me.

You and others were not roping at the time, you were trying to get your nose around quicker for a HO shot. If I were roped it wouldn't be "front qtr panel", eh? Unless I were stalling falling backwards, I guess; not the case.

In a scissors fight I have done it a few times to keep from over shooting, never tried it to swing nose and don't think I ever will, feels dirty  :uhoh
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
I'd have thought the OP title was pretty clear, not hiding any truth. It feels gamey to me.

You and others were not roping at the time, you were trying to get your nose around quicker for a HO shot. If I were roped it wouldn't be "front qtr panel", eh? Unless I were stalling falling backwards, I guess; not the case.

In a scissors fight I have done it a few times to keep from over shooting, never tried it to swing nose and don't think I ever will, feels dirty  :uhoh

This is a game. Until the flight modeling is 100% accurate and without fault (and no flight model is), then manipulation and control within it will always have a degree of gaminess to it. That's usually understood by most gamers.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Airscrew on December 31, 2014, 04:05:28 PM
I cut my engines from time to time...
1.  flying low and searching for M3s... kill engine so I can hear
2.  Low on fuel and want to make it back to base for what ever reason, climb, kill engines and glide down for awhile, I have flown 10 minutes on 3 minutes of fuel.  Not real fast, and doesnt work in a heavy combat environment
3.  Need to slow down in a big hurry to land quickly, kill engines, slide opposite rudder, pull back on stick and kill airspeed from 250 to 100 in seconds. drop gear, restart engine for better control and land.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: colmbo on December 31, 2014, 04:19:48 PM

3.  Need to slow down in a big hurry to land quickly, kill engines, slide opposite rudder, pull back on stick and kill airspeed from 250 to 100 in seconds. drop gear, restart engine for better control and land.

In AH an idling engine produces more drag that an engine that is off (unless it's a feathered engine on a many motor airplane).
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: The Fugitive on December 31, 2014, 04:35:43 PM
Naa, it's a tactic some have learned to use to their advantage, but it is still gamey.  It's also a small reflection of what AH really is and is not - a video game and not a WWII historical flight simulator

Yup, some of these players spend way too much time finding out how to "game the game".

It's the society we live in, instead of playing it how it was meant to they have to find all those little things to tweak for an advantage.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 04:39:52 PM
Yup, some of these players spend way too much time finding out how to "game the game".

It's the society we live in, instead of playing it how it was meant to they have to find all those little things to tweak for an advantage.

Yep. Without these people, we wouldn't have ACM. It's a good thing Robert Shaw took the time to "game the game" when it came to dogfighting and broke down combat flying into segmented components. Lots of cries and screams were heard then too:

"Going vertical isn't fair! You're supposed to turn with me!"
"Varying your convergence for better shot spread?! Gamey!"
"Turning away from me to be able to turn inside me?! Preposterous!"

Those who think outside the box and do what is possible always prevail against those who blindly follow preconceived notions.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: GhostCDB on December 31, 2014, 04:40:03 PM
Yup, some of these players spend way too much time finding out how to "game the game".

It's the society we live in, instead of playing it how it was meant to they have to find all those little things to tweak for an advantage.

A whine has been recorded.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on December 31, 2014, 05:16:22 PM

"Turning away from me to be able to turn inside me?! Preposterous!"


 :lol

"Using ACM to turn inside a better turning plane?!  INSANITY!"
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: The Fugitive on December 31, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
A whine has been recorded.

No, not a whine. I couldn't care less how anyone else plays the game, just like Im sure they couldn't care less how little respect I have toward them for pulling lame moves.

Dive down to the agreed 5k challenge alt to gain 30-40 mph while not against the rules is lame.

Turning off your engine because you can't get your shot due to your inability to control your cartoon airplane, lame again.

HOin on every pass because you lack the ability to maneuver for a shot behind the 3-9 line, again lame, but if thats how you want to play, go for it. I KNOW you had the go for a lame trick to get a kill, and I get a shiny new plane anyway.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: gpwurzel on December 31, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
Fugitive, if your on tonight, I'm gonna hunt ya down and throw plane parts at ya (or have you shoot them off).

Not related to this particular post, just wanted it out there.


Wurz
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: icepac on December 31, 2014, 05:27:15 PM
Fugitive is correct.

Some guys "go to moves" are often impossible in real life.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on December 31, 2014, 05:31:44 PM
Don't argue with the dorks, Fugi. It's New Years Eve.


If I've put myself in the position where my opponent turning off their engine helps their hammerhead and I die, I was probably already dead anyways. I really haven't seen significant difference between an engine off flier and someone who's on point with their fighting. The current top sticks will still spank these guys.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: xPoisonx on December 31, 2014, 05:48:19 PM
Fugitive is correct.

Some guys "go to moves" are often impossible in real life.

Precisely why this is a game  :aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Aspen on December 31, 2014, 05:53:58 PM
A lot of stuff would fall into the same category as how easy and reliably we can stop and start our engines.  I just watched a video on how you get flaps down on a 109.  With the type of fighting common in AH, the 109 would be a completely different plane if it took that long to get flaps down and back up.  Using engine stop and restart to bleed E or enhance a hammerhead isn't a big enough issue in game to bother changing in my opinion.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 31, 2014, 05:57:10 PM
Fugitive is correct.

Some guys "go to moves" are often impossible in real life.

If not impossible. Certainly many are improbable.
We have the advantage here of reincarnation. Doesnt matter if we get killed because we dont really get killed.
Not to mention that if we were to sustain the real life physical stresses of the moves we perform often for extended periods of time. We would see many many times more people lawn darting
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Lusche on December 31, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
We have the advantage here of reincarnation. Doesnt matter if we get killed because we dont really get killed.

Exactly.
And that's why we dare to try many moves most sane real world pilots would have flinched from doing so. "Let's see if it work... no... not this time. Let's try again".

For example for years I was very successfully hunting tanks in AH in the Hurri IID. I as able to kill even the heaviest armored tanks because I was utilizing an attack profile totally different from what the real life Hurricane pilots did. I could only do so because I could practice it at infinitum while a real pilot would had been dead at the first fail. And even after I had sort of perfected it, I still 'died' once for every 4-8 tanks I killed - an extremely high K/D for AH, but still I would have been dead after just a couple of sorties.

If you are areally a purist, you could easy call the method on diving at such a steep angle and pulling out at such low altitudes as I did 'gamey', because AFAIK they didn't do it in real life. They had a life to lose. I didn't.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Airscrew on December 31, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
In AH an idling engine produces more drag that an engine that is off (unless it's a feathered engine on a many motor airplane).

not on a 234.   and I usually use that on bombers.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: dirtdart on December 31, 2014, 07:40:21 PM
Colombo, thanks for the answer. Just confirming the realism of a constant speed prop at idle causing more drag then one with the engine off.

There are many aspects of this game some find "gamey," the realty of immortality means there are things no sane man would do, done all the time in this game. Who was the last corsair pilot to roll inverted at 100 feet, gear down, flaps maxed out?

And yet is a daily in our magical little world. No doubt it COULD happen. No doubt the % of REAL survival is very low.

<S>

PS.  When did lusche go radioactive?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Lusche on December 31, 2014, 07:42:14 PM

PS.  When did lusche go radioactive?

After my holidays at Fukushima  :old:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: dirtdart on December 31, 2014, 07:46:47 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: The Fugitive on December 31, 2014, 08:10:23 PM
Fugitive, if your on tonight, I'm gonna hunt ya down and throw plane parts at ya (or have you shoot them off).

Not related to this particular post, just wanted it out there.


Wurz

As long as you bring that pony against my 38  :devil

If not impossible. Certainly many are improbable.
We have the advantage here of reincarnation. Doesnt matter if we get killed because we dont really get killed.
Not to mention that if we were to sustain the real life physical stresses of the moves we perform often for extended periods of time. We would see many many times more people lawn darting

Exactly. The point Im trying to make is the game was set up to fly against others and push them to a point that he can do nothing but die to your guns all the while avoiding his guns.

Using lame tricks to do it.... to many.... is like cheating.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 08:17:20 PM
Using lame tricks to do it.... to many.... is like cheating.

The point of air combat is to kill your opponent in the most efficient manner possible. Anything else is rubbish. ;)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: gpwurzel on December 31, 2014, 08:31:33 PM
As long as you bring that pony against my 38  :devil

Exactly. The point Im trying to make is the game was set up to fly against others and push them to a point that he can do nothing but die to your guns all the while avoiding his guns.

Using lame tricks to do it.... to many.... is like cheating.

Lmao, I was dweebing it up in that pony - I'll bring something else.  :lol :D :D :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: kvuo75 on December 31, 2014, 09:48:38 PM
In AH an idling engine produces more drag that an engine that is off (unless it's a feathered engine on a many motor airplane).

this is very easily testable, i just did in game..

a single engine with windmilling prop (testing a n1k at the moment), engine off and idle are the same..

tested by doing alt-x and looking at rate of descent.



Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 31, 2014, 10:37:42 PM
The point of air combat is to kill your opponent in the most efficient manner possible. Anything else is rubbish. ;)

And in real life this is absolutely true.
But as someone else pointed out. This aint real life son.

Here it isnt so much getting the kill thats lasting or glorious. (All glory is fleeting anyway) But how you got the kill.
I ask of you, or anyone else here for that matter. Which were your most memorable fights win or loose? the ones where some gamey trick, pick, or HO was used? Or the ones you had to work for?

Yea i get a bunch of kills by the same means too. But those arent the ones that give me the most satisfaction. The ones I remember. And you dont see me doing much in the way of chest thumping "a kill is a kill". In fact typically the most you see out of me when I land kills is a polite TY to respond to peoples WTGs
 And Ive had as much fun dying being grossly outnumbered or by way of fair and clean fight as I have getting kills in a white knuckled fight. Its the fight thats the thing and how that fight went down. Not the kills. Its the one of the things you dont get yet. Most of your victories are hollow by most peoples standards.

You remind me of the character Alejandro Murrieta in the movie the "Mask of Zorro" before he legitimately Donned the mask.
If you have seen the movie you will remember when he stole the horse and came back and the original Zorro,Don Diego de la Vega was upset with him.
Do you remember what Diego de la Vega said to him upon his return? Those words could very easily and accurately be applied to you. And I dont thin you would find many in disagreement on that front.

You are certainly no inexperienced drunken Alejandro that is going to be beaten by and old man with a stick. You arent without talent. But you're no Zorro either.
To reach that level you have to learn the one thing that escapes you. The one thing that for the moment at least "which is beyond your reach."
Untill you do that. You will remain in the eyes of most, the former.

I have no doubt that one day you will "get it" (the best ones eventually do) as of late you have shown some small signs of moving in that direction. but you still have quite a ways to go.

I tried talking to you once long ago sincerely offering some helpful advice. What I got in return was to be flamed for my effort. You didnt want to listen then. I have doubts as to if you will now as well. I didnt either at one time. But you will one day. Just as I did.

BTW. I make nor have I ever made any self claims of being a great pilot. As you will one day figure out thats not for anyone to claim for themselves but an honor others bestow upon them. And its a lot more then simply getting kills by any means or the most efficient manner possible or even getting a lot of kills.
You will figure that part out one day too

That "Rubbish" as you call it may just that IRL. But here. It means something
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 10:46:56 PM
Here it isnt so much getting the kill thats lasting or glorious. (All glory is fleeting anyway) But how you got the kill.
I ask of you, or anyone else here for that matter. Which were your most memorable fights win or loose? the ones where some gamey trick, pick, or HO was used? Or the ones you had to work for?

Do you think I've even thought once about fights after the fact? Take me literally when I say I don't care about how thrilling a fight with any player is - that is not why I play this or any other sim. The only thing that I enjoy, that the majority of us enjoy, is killing the enemy. I could have a 50-minute long fight and, truly, I would consider it 49.5 minutes of wasted time, as well as a failing in my own ability to down the enemy quickly. The only true test of ACM is to kill your opponent, for that is what it was created for. Anything else is personal opinion.

You may enjoy juice cups and participation medals after a game; we play for the trophy and for the unadulterated spirit of competitive gaming.

All of that being said, if this means you'd like to go 1v1 in the DA, then let's go. ;)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 31, 2014, 11:39:27 PM
Do you think I've even thought once about fights after the fact? Take me literally when I say I don't care about how thrilling a fight with any player is - that is not why I play this or any other sim. The only thing that I enjoy, that the majority of us enjoy, is killing the enemy. I could have a 50-minute long fight and, truly, I would consider it 49.5 minutes of wasted time, as well as a failing in my own ability to down the enemy quickly. The only true test of ACM is to kill your opponent, for that is what it was created for. Anything else is personal opinion.

You may enjoy juice cups and participation medals after a game; we play for the trophy and for the unadulterated spirit of competitive gaming.

All of that being said, if this means you'd like to go 1v1 in the DA, then let's go. ;)


Oh you remember them. And you most certainly care about them. You can deny all you want but your actions say otherwise.

You know I dont DA. not you nor anyone else. And trust me fear has nothing to do with it. Ive turned down offers by both much better and much lessor players then you.

I told you once before. You have no honor. You dont know the meaning of the word. Even if I did DA I wouldnt with you for that reason alone.

What I said about the Zorro movie sticks. Its the perfect description. It is how most people view you.
Like I said. one day you may "get it" but you have a lot of growing up to do yet before that can happen.

So go ahead. Get your HO's, picks, Use your gamey tactics, And keep spouting off chest thumping afterward (you were one of the ones I was referring to in another thread about not knowing when enough is enough) Yea you will rack up a lot of kills. But you will never accomplish what the best players have. Respect.

As much as anything its your attitude toward people in game that messes you up. In my 12 years here I cant remember anyone with a worse one.
You're a good pilot. But a terrible and detrimental player
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on December 31, 2014, 11:42:21 PM
Maybe so....but you assume he and the rest of us give a big crapola about it.  

Trust me...we don't.   :rofl



Happy New Year!  


(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/new-year/party-blower-smiley-emoticon.gif)
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on December 31, 2014, 11:57:44 PM

Oh you remember them. And you most certainly care about them. You can deny all you want but your actions say otherwise.

You know I dont DA. not you nor anyone else. And trust me fear has nothing to do with it. Ive turned down offers by both much better and much lessor players then you.

I told you once before. You have no honor. You dont know the meaning of the word. Even if I did DA I wouldnt with you for that reason alone.

What I said about the Zorro movie sticks. Its the perfect description. It is how most people view you.
Like I said. one day you may "get it" but you have a lot of growing up to do yet before that can happen.

So go ahead. Get your HO's, picks, Use your gamey tactics, And keep spouting off chest thumping afterward (you were one of the ones I was referring to in another thread about not knowing when enough is enough) Yea you will rack up a lot of kills. But you will never accomplish what the best players have. Respect.

As much as anything its your attitude toward people in game that messes you up. In my 12 years here I cant remember anyone with a worse one.
You're a good pilot. But a terrible and detrimental player


Your assumptions (which are the same assumptions that many others have) are your biggest detriment. Apparently, you've never encountered players whose primary goal is competitively playing to win.

This is a quote from a WWII German officer, describing his observations (and frustrations) in fighting the newly-met "Americans":

"A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine."

Please refer to that quote throughout the remainder of our interactions. We feel no obligation to abide by your concepts of honor, tactics, or values. We are here to kill and dominate.

This is a game, and we will treat it as a game because that is what it is to us: a game. We view it no other way, nor have we viewed any other combat sim differently in 11 years of flying as a squad.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2015, 12:01:15 AM
Bahahaha
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on January 01, 2015, 12:16:48 AM
Do you think I've even thought once about fights after the fact?
Wow  :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Mar on January 01, 2015, 12:48:58 AM
Yeah, Dred pretty much said everything there is to say. :aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 01, 2015, 01:40:51 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on January 01, 2015, 01:45:33 AM
The point of air combat is to kill your opponent in the most efficient manner possible. Anything else is rubbish. ;)

Manfred Von Richtofen would not have killed his engine  :old:

Nor would he fly a La-7   

Ho'n in a La-7 is Rubbish.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Mar on January 01, 2015, 02:14:36 AM
In other news...

It is of my opinion that killing your engine in a fight is about as useful as an F4U dropping its gear in a rolling scissors. :old:

Fight the fight right and you will never end up in a position having to kill your engine. :old:

It's just a partial fix for when you mess up. :old:

Zack rules. :old:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: The Fugitive on January 01, 2015, 09:40:11 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on January 01, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Do you think I've even thought once about fights after the fact? Take me literally when I say I don't care about how thrilling a fight with any player is - that is not why I play this or any other sim. The only thing that I enjoy, that the majority of us enjoy, is killing the enemy. I could have a 50-minute long fight and, truly, I would consider it 49.5 minutes of wasted time, as well as a failing in my own ability to down the enemy quickly. The only true test of ACM is to kill your opponent, for that is what it was created for. Anything else is personal opinion.

You may enjoy juice cups and participation medals after a game; we play for the trophy and for the unadulterated spirit of competitive gaming.

All of that being said, if this means you'd like to go 1v1 in the DA, then let's go. ;)

Please do NOT pretend that you are somehow in the majority here in this community.

Those that agree with you can give a "here, here!" following this post.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Oldman731 on January 01, 2015, 11:09:17 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: caldera on January 01, 2015, 11:14:34 AM
Quote
Perhaps we're all taking this game a bit too seriously.

The quote that sums up the entirety of this bulletin board. 
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on January 01, 2015, 11:22:27 AM

Perhaps we're all taking this game a bit too seriously. 
- oldman

Surely you are correct, but that doesn't mean we have to agree and not make fun of the situation :cool:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 11:53:26 AM
Please do NOT pretend that you are somehow in the majority here in this community.

Those that agree with you can give a "here, here!" following this post.

Context. I'm speaking about myself and the majority of The Damned.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: -ammo- on January 01, 2015, 12:25:38 PM
Context. I'm speaking about myself and the majority of The Damned.

Who is the CO of The Damned nowadays?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 12:43:51 PM
Who is the CO of The Damned nowadays?

I am.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: pipz on January 01, 2015, 12:51:44 PM
Who is the CO of The Damned nowadays?

Ammo I may be wrong but you may be confusing them with the original Damned we have known.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Arlo on January 01, 2015, 12:56:56 PM
I am.

Did the FA immigrants drive TC to suicide or just to step aside?  :confused:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SkyRock on January 01, 2015, 01:04:40 PM
In other news...

It is of my opinion that killing your engine in a fight is about as useful as an F4U dropping its gear in a rolling scissors. :old:
:rofl   +1   :aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RTR on January 01, 2015, 01:10:09 PM
The FA immigrants are not affiliated with The Damned.

They started their own sqn and call it The Damned. Not sure why that is allowed, but whatever.

TC is still firmly in place with The Damned (the real Damned). Most of us are inactive at the moment or fly on a limited schedule, but we are still here.

I'm sure one of the immigrants will be along shortly to clear up the confusion.

 :lol

RTR

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Arlo on January 01, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
Who is the CO of The Damned nowadays?

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/The_New_Damned_zps78c4fb26.png~original)
(FA immigrants)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/The_REAL_Damned_zps703fba81.png~original)
(The Originals)

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Arlo on January 01, 2015, 01:12:33 PM
The FA immigrants are not affiliated with The Damned.

They started their own sqn and call it The Damned. Not sure why that is allowed, but whatever.

TC is still firmly in place with The Damned (the real Damned). Most of us are inactive at the moment or fly on a limited schedule, but we are still here.

I'm sure one of the immigrants will be along shortly to clear up the confusion.

 :lol

RTR



WHEW! Thanks, RTR. I am a DAMNED fan. Not a Damned fan.  :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RTR on January 01, 2015, 01:14:50 PM
Ohhhh...those Darned Damned!

LOL

RTR
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: glzsqd on January 01, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
So who pays for the extra 15$ a month?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: xPoisonx on January 01, 2015, 01:29:05 PM

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/The_REAL_Damned_zps703fba81.png~original)
(The Originals)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/The_New_Damned_zps78c4fb26.png~original)
(FA immigrants)


I didn't realize I was a FA immigrant.. thanks for clearing that up  :old:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Arlo on January 01, 2015, 01:33:45 PM
I didn't realize I was a FA immigrant.. thanks for clearing that up  :old:

May as well be.  :D
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 04:15:48 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RotBaron on January 01, 2015, 04:26:33 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: RTR on January 01, 2015, 04:55:31 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 05:05:51 PM
Nothing else to say..out of respect for the name and a fellow Damned member I won't continue this further. We can talk in private all you want.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Bruv119 on January 01, 2015, 05:06:53 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: mechanic on January 01, 2015, 06:18:18 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 06:20:07 PM
You and Playmate are the only other ones that fly, we talked to Vulcan and Ajax recently but they love their marriages too much to come fly, go figure..

Shadow still talks to Rilak but he's playing WOT competitively..

I'm sure, just like in FA, that if more were around they would be Damned than The Few :)

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Slash27 on January 01, 2015, 06:29:33 PM
....we can post the conversations we have had with TC over the phone


You recorded a phone conversation about a video game to use as leverage? Who are you people?
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Bruv119 on January 01, 2015, 06:30:32 PM
Vulcan did play for a bit!  got pretty good then left  :(

Rilak is too good to be playing tanks it's an outrage.   I had a long call with one of the guys that helped me first start the few and found him talking about WOT it is very strange  :headscratch:
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: glzsqd on January 01, 2015, 06:31:42 PM
You recorded a phone conversation about a video game to use as leverage? Who are you people?

 :rofl

this stuff is starting to get interesting now.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 08:38:46 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: mechanic on January 01, 2015, 08:53:16 PM
 :lol

You enjoyed those fights. One of the last things you said was 'You going to be online tomorrow?'

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 08:54:26 PM
You enjoyed those fights. One of the last things you said was 'You going to be online tomorrow?'

No, I truly did not. It was honestly a waste of two hours.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Changeup on January 01, 2015, 08:58:45 PM
Two hours of something you didn't like and had a choice?  Hahaha, ok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: mechanic on January 01, 2015, 09:06:34 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 09:12:43 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: mechanic on January 01, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Aiming is not part of ACM, neither is SA. They are separate, but usually taught together. My statement is consistent, as we were talking about ACM and dogfighting tactics in general, not individually-specific minutia such as aiming accuracy or SA, which has a much lessened application in 1v1 dueling (which was the topic of the conversation).

You can keep reaching all you'd like, the fact of the matter is that we only care about the competitive win. No amount of your speculation will change that.

Wrong, aim has a huge part in the outcome of a fight. But I'll leave it at that.

So you're a qualified flight instructor I heard you say. Can you tell us about that? Where did you train? How many hours have you got? What name should I look for if I wanted to come to the states and do some training? It sounds fascinating.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Triton28 on January 01, 2015, 09:16:58 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2015, 09:22:01 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Stang on January 01, 2015, 09:22:46 PM
I will say this amidst the hilarity of this thread. Aim is the great equalizer in any fight. But great acm is its own aim in and of itself.
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SkyRock on January 01, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
You recorded a phone conversation about a video game to use as leverage? Who are you people?
:rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2015, 09:26:13 PM
You recorded a phone conversation about a video game to use as leverage? Who are you people?

I think this needs more attention.  :lol
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SkyRock on January 01, 2015, 09:26:46 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: SkyRock on January 01, 2015, 09:31:42 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Mar on January 01, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Triton28 on January 01, 2015, 10:09:14 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Changeup on January 01, 2015, 10:20:53 PM
Snergishness is awesome. 
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 10:36:12 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Kruel on January 01, 2015, 10:40:40 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2015, 10:46:00 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: craz07 on January 01, 2015, 10:49:35 PM
this is all just interpretive holiday fistificuffs being posted here i assure you.. key word "interpretive"
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on January 01, 2015, 10:58:17 PM
See Rule #6
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2015, 11:03:07 PM
See Rule #6
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skyyr on January 01, 2015, 11:04:50 PM
See Rule #6
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Zerstorer on January 01, 2015, 11:14:02 PM
We need to have this ready for easy access for our opponents, as this seems to be their #1 excuse post-dueling.

 :lol

Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Oldman731 on January 01, 2015, 11:21:06 PM
So you're a qualified flight instructor I heard you say. Can you tell us about that? Where did you train? How many hours have you got? What name should I look for if I wanted to come to the states and do some training? It sounds fascinating.

These are useful questions.

- oldman
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: pipz on January 02, 2015, 05:34:29 AM
We only have two threads to cover all this stuff. Can we start a third please?

With kind regards.


 :D  :aok
Title: Re: time to neuter engine off/on ?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 02, 2015, 09:56:40 AM
This has gone completely off the rails.