Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Someguy63 on January 04, 2015, 02:15:43 AM
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I'm wondering whether I should keep it off or on.
Like just off or on period.
I now turn it off when I'm about to get into a fight I know I'm going to be ending up slow and w/ flaps out so it doesn't screw up a shot I might get, but in all seriousness I just got tired of constantly switching it on and off, and on...over and over and am now wondering whether I should disable it for good.
Well? :noid
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You tard just disable it for one flight and see how far you will get. :t
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I sort of do it a similar way Anarchy.
I fly with it off, but have a button mapped on my throttle to flip it on/off quickly, just to get a "quick trim" when I slow down or accelerate rapidly, or get trim out of shape from doing anything else as well. I always have it off in a fight once I get slow especially as well, as like you said, when the flaps come out, you end up having to push the nose down often to get lined up for a shot, which is very counter intuitive to always "pulling" for a shot, at least in most cases. Plus when you "pull" for a shot, you can let go a little and the nose tends to stay, where as with CT on and flaps out, when you "push" for that line up, if you let off just a little, the nose takes off going up again in a big way, even with just a slight release it push pressure. That's my experience with it anyhow. With CT on and flaps out, it just feels...screwy.
Once I take off, I usually flip it on for general tooling about, and again, once I'm in a fight and bleeding E in any way, I'll flip it off and use the hat I have mapped for trim on my stick (ail and elevator). Since I don't have rudder trim mapped, and don't find it to really be that much of a big deal for me anyhow, if I need to quickly re-trim while in combat, I'll just hit that mapped throttle trim button once, which does if far faster than holding down the stick trim buttons, which are good for precision IMO, as well as the absolutely required elevator trim for flying the K4 and getting out of control lock up in dives.
I think they way you're doing it (much the same as mine), is the optimal way to have your controls set up. Having CT off in the game settings, and having NO on/off CT or auto-trim button mapped, isn't a great idea IMO, even if you have all the trims mapped to your HOTAS, as having the option of flipping CT on/off is faster in a fight than doing it the manual/fine tune way, just a quick button press and you're good to go, even after a change of a couple hundred MPH in a handful of seconds from a steep dive, climb, turn, or combination of the above. Just my opinion, but it's worked for me for a long time, and some of the "great" K4 and G10 sticks back in the day taught me to do it this way, as there is NO plane where trim is more important - and since you're one of the current K4 pilots like the above - probably best off doing what you're doing.
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I was just thinking yesterday of writing a wish to have the CT button turn CT trim on or off like you had checked or unchecked the enable "Auto CT".
I use manual most of the time but I would like to use full auto when using the B17 as an example.
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have a button mapped on my throttle to flip it on/off quickly
Yup. Although I'm the opposite, I generally have CT on all the time, except for when flying the P-38 and when entering combat in the Frank.
Shane, who was one of the two best pilots I've seen in this game, always left CT on, which I think is a pretty fair recommendation.
- oldman
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You tard just disable it for one flight and see how far you will get. :t
"Tard?" Nice advice. This is why you get squelched.
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"Tard?" Nice advice. This is why you get squelched.
It's cool he's my squaddie, have to deal with him all day. :banana:
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I sort of do it a similar way Anarchy.
I fly with it off, but have a button mapped on my throttle to flip it on/off quickly, just to get a "quick trim" when I slow down or accelerate rapidly, or get trim out of shape from doing anything else as well. I always have it off in a fight once I get slow especially as well, as like you said, when the flaps come out, you end up having to push the nose down often to get lined up for a shot, which is very counter intuitive to always "pulling" for a shot, at least in most cases. Plus when you "pull" for a shot, you can let go a little and the nose tends to stay, where as with CT on and flaps out, when you "push" for that line up, if you let off just a little, the nose takes off going up again in a big way, even with just a slight release it push pressure. That's my experience with it anyhow. With CT on and flaps out, it just feels...screwy.
Once I take off, I usually flip it on for general tooling about, and again, once I'm in a fight and bleeding E in any way, I'll flip it off and use the hat I have mapped for trim on my stick (ail and elevator). Since I don't have rudder trim mapped, and don't find it to really be that much of a big deal for me anyhow, if I need to quickly re-trim while in combat, I'll just hit that mapped throttle trim button once, which does if far faster than holding down the stick trim buttons, which are good for precision IMO, as well as the absolutely required elevator trim for flying the K4 and getting out of control lock up in dives.
I think they way you're doing it (much the same as mine), is the optimal way to have your controls set up. Having CT off in the game settings, and having NO on/off CT or auto-trim button mapped, isn't a great idea IMO, even if you have all the trims mapped to your HOTAS, as having the option of flipping CT on/off is faster in a fight than doing it the manual/fine tune way, just a quick button press and you're good to go, even after a change of a couple hundred MPH in a handful of seconds from a steep dive, climb, turn, or combination of the above. Just my opinion, but it's worked for me for a long time, and some of the "great" K4 and G10 sticks back in the day taught me to do it this way, as there is NO plane where trim is more important - and since you're one of the current K4 pilots like the above - probably best off doing what you're doing.
Thanks G I'm all clear now.
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It's often a personal preference thing. I very rarely ever turn the CT off, I've learned over time to adapt to it. I know how it can throw off shots and cause some other strange malody's upon low speed handling, so I understand why some decide to turn it off. It often comes down to a factor of pilot workload. I prefer to be thinking about two steps ahead if I can, and CT on or off is something else I'll be thinking about when I could be thinking about my situation. Again it's less pilot workload for me, for others it may be a non-factor. Again it's personal preference. But let me say this, the difference between having it on or off, would only make a difference in your success (if any) if you are already very proficient fighter pilot.
:salute
BigRat
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"Tard?" Nice advice. This is why you get squelched.
:bhead
Oh no he squelched me! I really cared that he would hear what I have to say...
Anarchy is mah friend. Sometimes the best advice is not the easiest to hear :devil
I think Big Rat is spot on. It won't make you any better, just personal preference.
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Oldman et al, if it wasn't for flaps, I would likely leave it on all the time as well. It's just with certain planes the flaps/CT fighting each other or whatever you want to call it is really, really pronounced, the K4 being among them IMO. Other 109s as well, and a few other planes. Flaps out + CT = having to push nose down a lot, along with which comes more nose bounce and generally odd feelings of not being able to line up very well. At least for me.
Shane taught me a lot in the LA7 in years gone by, and one of the reasons IMO he could leave CT on and just not think about it is he didn't really pop the flaps in the LA7 out all that much. Again, that's the only reason this is even an issue IMO, as the CT does work just fine IMO, it's just with the flaps out, it often reverses the direction you have to push the stick to line up for shots, which I really, really dislike. I certainly don't think that having CT off all the time gives any huge advantage, or any real advantage at all - others disagree, and say that with CT off and always manual trimming that they carry a bit more E and things are just "better", but I've never noticed such a think. Then again, those that say that are usually a lot better ACM and E fighters than I am, so who knows. All I really know is that flaps + CT = p00 sometimes.
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I never pay attention to if it's on or off. Every once in a while if I feel like I'm fighting the stick I'll flip it on then off to trim up.
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Here, as in real life, I trim as need wether by combat trim or manual trims.
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I hate dealing with trim in sims. IRL you can easily set it so you can just go hands off for a bit, not so with a keyboard/hat switch.
AH's CT auto-trims for 1G level flight at mil power for all planes at all speeds, but ever since the WWI planes were introduced the elevator trim has been off by about +0.1 Gs or so. I reported it as a bug and nothing was done about it. Now I'll never be able to just let go of the stick and enjoy the view.
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Yup. Although I'm the opposite, I generally have CT on all the time, except for when flying the P-38 and when entering combat in the Frank.
Combat trim probably kill more P38s in AH than enemy action. Anyone familiar with P38 attack missions where half the attackers lawndart? Combat trim.
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Combat trim probably kill more P38s in AH than enemy action. Anyone familiar with P38 attack missions where half the attackers lawndart? Combat trim.
shhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Planes that are flap dependent suffer from the use of combat trim.
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Combat trim probably kill more P38s in AH than enemy action. Anyone familiar with P38 attack missions where half the attackers lawndart? Combat trim.
I would have to disagree with you on that statement. Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key. I use the dive flap as a backup. The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.
With manual trim I have dumped a couple in the water on 50 foot NOE when I pushed the nose down to level flight forgetting I had manual-trim on when I switched to auto level. The change in trim is a bit slow set a forced elevator level flight to overcome a bad manual trim. Typhoon seems to me the worst at this.
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I would have to disagree with you on that statement. Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key. I use the dive flap as a backup. The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.
With manual trim I have dumped a couple in the water on 50 foot NOE when I pushed the nose down to level flight forgetting I had manual-trim on when I switched to auto level. The change in trim is a bit slow set a forced elevator level flight to overcome a bad manual trim. Typhoon seems to me the worst at this.
I understand why you disagree, because you're a 38 pilot and better at dealing with that aircraft's habits, but in terms of the Bish, what Bozon said is true. :noid
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I now turn CT off in AH since taking up flying in other sims more often, if only to keep things consistant and avoid picking up "bad" habits.
I agree with the previous post stating that manual triming in AH is a pain and that it never seems to get to a "hands off" level flight situation. In all fairness, most other simulators don't either, but it certainly seems that you can get much closer to doing so in DCS or the various IL2 sims than you can in AH. YMMV.
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I would have to disagree with you on that statement. Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key. I use the dive flap as a backup. The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.
In a dive CT will continuously trim your plane to be nose heavy. This has two effects: 1) if you hold the stick steady, CT will still increase your dive angle. This is unintuitive to inexperienced players and gets them into steeper dives than they intended. 2) since CT will trim full nose down, pulling out of the dive is more difficult.
Of course, an experienced AH player should be able to control these effects, but they are still limiting.
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I turn it off for high speed flight and fly the plane with my trim wheels instead of the stick,, you'd be amazed how much faster it will go!
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In a dive CT will continuously trim your plane to be nose heavy. This has two effects: 1) if you hold the stick steady, CT will still increase your dive angle. This is unintuitive to inexperienced players and gets them into steeper dives than they intended. 2) since CT will trim full nose down, pulling out of the dive is more difficult.
Of course, an experienced AH player should be able to control these effects, but they are still limiting.
You make a good case.
I use manual trim in a P38L and do the exact same thing as CT would do but I do not remove the down trim during pull out unless I have really screwed up.
The problem is the plane starts to shake, then you pull back on the stick out of reflex but it doesn't do anything. By the time you realize speed is the issue it is too late to cut throttle and save the plane with only a small chance to use full up trim to pull it out.
I too try to limit my final attack altitude to 9,500 above the target. If I come in a 12,000 say I will sprial down to below 10k then nose over or ride the rudder down for a ways. My goal is to hit max speed at rocket-bomb drop
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I turn it off for high speed flight and fly the plane with my trim wheels instead of the stick,, you'd be amazed how much faster it will go!
Can u post some pics of the setup
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I've flown with combat trim on for a long time. :airplane:
Recently when I started the AHXRL racing I noticed how much slower I was and the other racers would pull away from me. Since turning off combat trim I've gotten used to trimming the plane every sortie and while not as relaxing it has helped a great deal in dogfighting. Combat trim has a dampening effect on controlling the aircraft and may seem a bit twitchy when first turned off but once you get used to it you won't be wondering how that other guy got position on you anymore.
Control X will turn it on when needed or on bomber missions.
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Can u post some pics of the setup
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/7c9c6805-6b19-4ec1-bc0c-b2839cb0a978_zps1fada9db.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/WWhiskey/media/7c9c6805-6b19-4ec1-bc0c-b2839cb0a978_zps1fada9db.jpg.html)
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Just a note regarding WWhiskey's pic above - do not neglect rudder trim. On some planes it is very important as an off center skid/slide ball means your plane is bleeding energy. Some high torque planes require rudder adjustments with speed. Twin engine planes should trim rudder when flying on one engine - the difference is very significant. Those who use rudder pedals can easily compensate, but those of us with twisty sticks or other setups should also be prepared to trim rudder.
The mosquito is a high toque twin engine plane. Rudder trim is very useful for take off (full right), when stall fighting (I use the CT on/off flicking for a rough setup), and when flying on one engine ( will still do over 240 mph and climb when trimmed).
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Very true but I only had two wheels!
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Just a note regarding WWhiskey's pic above - do not neglect rudder trim. On some planes it is very important as an off center skid/slide ball means your plane is bleeding energy. Some high torque planes require rudder adjustments with speed. Twin engine planes should trim rudder when flying on one engine - the difference is very significant. Those who use rudder pedals can easily compensate, but those of us with twisty sticks or other setups should also be prepared to trim rudder.
The mosquito is a high toque twin engine plane. Rudder trim is very useful for take off (full right), when stall fighting (I use the CT on/off flicking for a rough setup), and when flying on one engine ( will still do over 240 mph and climb when trimmed).
Historically several of the planes modeled in AH did not have rudder trim and some also did not have aileron trim. If I remember correctly the 109s only had "elevator trim". I believe all planes in AH have all three axis modelled with trim, however, for simplicity sake.
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I have a button mapped to toggle CT on and off as well as all the other trims. I use it for general travel but will turn it back off when in fighting mode. I fly the 38 mostly and find that with CT on, with flaps out, getting slower, it tends to want to give me more nose up compensation than I'd like. With flaps off, nose low and getting faster it gives more and more nose down than I'd like too. Also, if you're flying the P-38L it tends to negate the effect of the recovery flap. In general I prefer a slightly nose down trim which gives what is to me a more natural feeling of pulling the nose around in a turn than forcing it back down. YMMV.
On what Fulcrum was saying IIRC some of the LW birds did have trim tabs on the control surfaces but some of them were only adjustable on the ground. I guess they went by the pilot's personal preference and just left it at that.
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On what Fulcrum was saying IIRC some of the LW birds did have trim tabs on the control surfaces but some of them were only adjustable on the ground. I guess they went by the pilot's personal preference and just left it at that.
I have heard that as well but I am not sure which makes and models.
I think I'll do a little research on this subject. :)
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I have been blaming my last 3 sticks for operating rough. By that I mean as I try to hold my pipper on target I would constantly have to fight it. The nose of my plane would bounce around making it difficult to hit targets. When I say bounce around, I don't mean like a basketball but bouncing enough if you were trying to thread a needle, you would never get it threaded.
I was in the main arena trying out the Niki. I ran into a good pilot that stayed away from my cannons for at least 5 minutes or more. I was staying off the pedals because someone just told me that rudder use can really slow you down. Made sense when you think about it. So I was completely turning using the stick. Well after 5 minutes my hand and forearm were just cramping up. Really burning. I survived my encounter but had one stiff and soar hand/forearm to show for it.
I decided to try and read up on this theory of staying off the Rudder and went looking at the AH webpage. I stumbled onto a section about flying with and with out the use of Combat Trim.
I had to go try it ASAP! So back up in the Niki I went. I couldn't believe how much easier it was to fly the Niki without Combat Trim. I would compare it to this: We all know what driving a car is like with automatic steering. And many of us know what its like to drive a car with no steering fluid. It takes two hands to turn the steering wheel. LOL Its not that bad, but it makes for a good example. I could fly the Niki with just the stick and no problem. It makes flying effortlessly.
So what I'm doing now is I get to my destination on auto pilot or using set angle automatically. I might make adjustments at several places a long the way. But when I get to the place of action (enemy base) I shut off or cancel any trim. I fight the fight with Combat Trim off. This is all new to me so I will report back once I get more sorties under my belt. But first impression is I really really really LIKE IT!!!!
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BBP, what. stick do you use?
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I put my expensive $550 Thrustmaster in moth balls and bought a $50 Thrustmaster (T.Flight Hotas X) one site has them for $49 and free shipping. It has a joystick and a separate throttle. It does anything the expensive ones do. Even has a feature I've never seen on any other joystick.
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I'm guessing CT is something that is programmed in to overcome a programming limitation.
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I'm guessing CT is something that is programmed in to overcome a programming limitation.
Combat Trim is simply an automatic trim setter. It just sets the trim based on your speed but it does not take your flaps setting into account. It's only accurate for flaps up.
The auto pilot modes set your trim and allow for your flap settings.
You can also set trim manually with keyboard or analog controllers.