Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Vraciu on November 15, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
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While I like the standardization on the keys for moving, I am not sure I am a fan of one change(?).
In the old version I can zoom in and rotate skins using the mouse. In the new version I cannot. Is this a change or an error on my part?
My thanks in advance.
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You need to hold the mouse button down and move to the side at the same time
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You need to hold the mouse button down and move to the side at the same time
I am trying but it isn't doing anything but moving the skin side to side. I cannot get it to pivot/rotate.
Any chance you can still include the mouse-only options like the old viewer had? I found it to be pretty intuitive and all I really needed was the SHIFT and CTRL keys to pan and zoom. It was a good system.
<S>
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I am trying but it isn't doing anything but moving the skin side to side. I cannot get it to pivot/rotate.
Any chance you can still include the mouse-only options like the old viewer had? I found it to be pretty intuitive and all I really needed was the SHIFT and CTRL keys to pan and zoom. It was a good system.
<S>
No on the old system.
Moving your mouse while holding right button should pivot and rotate your view.
HiTech
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No on the old system.
Moving your mouse while holding right button should pivot and rotate your view.
HiTech
It isn't doing anything at all. It works on the old system (2.29 Patch 5) but not on the new one (Alpha).
Is there anything I can provide you that will show why it is not working?
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It isn't doing anything at all. It works on the old system (2.29 Patch 5) but not on the new one (Alpha).
Is there anything I can provide you that will show why it is not working?
Does it work in the object editor and the terrain editor?
HiTech
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Does it work in the object editor and the terrain editor?
HiTech
Let me check. Standby one.
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Does it work in the object editor and the terrain editor?
HiTech
It works in the Terrain Editor.
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It works in the Terrain Editor.
Scratching my head,(all works perfectly for me just like the TE) maybe you need to click in the display window one time?
Greebo , you have any thoughts? I assume the mouse works as intended for you?
HiTech
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Scratching my head,(all works perfectly for me just like the TE) maybe you need to click in the display window one time?
Greebo , you have any thoughts? I assume the mouse works as intended for you?
HiTech
Totally bizarre. I have tried clicking and making sure no keys are sticking. I cannot pivot the image. Can only zoom in and out with the keys and move it left/right/up/down with the mouse. :(
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Totally bizarre. I have tried clicking and making sure no keys are sticking. I cannot pivot the image. Can only zoom in and out with the keys and move it left/right/up/down with the mouse. :(
Now I see what you are doing.
To circle the aircraft move right with the d key, then look more left with the mouse and you will circle the plane.
HiTech
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Now I see what you are doing.
To circle the aircraft move right with the d key, then look more left with the mouse and you will circle the plane.
HiTech
Just to be clear, I am trying to pivot the airplane so I can see its belly. I can do that with objects in the Terrain Editor with the mouse by clicking the right button and moving the mouse. But in Skin Viewer all the mouse does is move the object. It won't pivot/twist/flip. I get the exact same default view only in a different spot on my screen.
Does that make sense?
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Just to be clear, I am trying to pivot the airplane so I can see its belly. I can do that with objects in the Terrain Editor with the mouse by clicking the right button and moving the mouse. But in Skin Viewer all the mouse does is move the object. It won't pivot/twist/flip. I get the exact same default view only in a different spot on my screen.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
The mouse is turning your head, not moving the plane. It only looks like the plane is moving. So you need to position yourself with the asdw and then use the mouse to turn your head to the plane.
HiTech
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Not really.
The mouse is turning your head, not moving the plane. It only looks like the plane is moving. So you need to position yourself with the asdw and then use the mouse to turn your head to the plane.
HiTech
Okay just so I am clear...
The terrain editor allows me to move just like the old skin viewer with the mouse. I can pivot things with the right button on the mouse in the other editor but the skin viewer won't do the same. Is that right? This is so not intuitive to me. Let me try it again.
For clarity here is what I am getting at...
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Now it is working. I see what you were getting at.
I appreciate what you are doing but I have to say the old system was way faster and easier to use. At worse a right click of the mouse should allow you to pivot the object in place. If you could enable that (or give us a box to click to use the old system) I will buy you a case of Wild Turkey.
The other editors allow pivoting with the mouse only so that's why I was confused.
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Did I miss something? I am unable to view any of the new pony skins with the viewer besides the default. Do I need to save each skin first, before they will be visible to the skin ID drop box?
Only asking because I truly don't remember if this is how it worked for AH2 or just due to alpha level development. :headscratch:
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The other editors allow pivoting with the mouse only so that's why I was confused.
All 3 editors (Terrain/object/skin) now work with the exact same systems.
Also mouse wheel controls your movement speed.
HiTech
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All 3 editors (Terrain/object/skin) now work with the exact same systems.
Also mouse wheel controls your movement speed.
HiTech
:(
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I miss the old skin viewer mouse options as well. If holding the mouse button and moving the mouse pivoted the skin rather than pivoted the viewpoint it would be more useful. Also if there were a pair of buttons to move the viewpoint in or out, as well as the ones for zooming in or out it would be handy.
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Also if there were a pair of buttons to move the viewpoint in or out.
Dosn't w and s already do this?
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Dosn't w and s already do this?
Yes it does that.
But the head position being what moves vs the object is counterintuitive. It is a real struggle to get the view I want. Before I could just flip the plane over. Now I have to zoom through it then pan with the mouse (the plane isn't even visible until I flip my viewpoint around--disorienting). Just way too much work compared to the system you had before. It was way quicker and more elegant. This system is really frustrating after almost two years doing it the other way.
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W and S zoom the viewpoint in and out both horizontally and vertically. I was thinking of buttons that moved the viewpoint in and out but just horizontally, like the A and D keys move it laterally. So for instance I can look down on the skin from above and move my viewpoint up and down across the skin without having to look away from it first.
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W and S zoom the viewpoint in and out both horizontally and vertically. I was thinking of buttons that moved the viewpoint in and out but just horizontally, like the A and D keys move it laterally. So for instance I can look down on the skin from above and move my viewpoint up and down across the skin without having to look away from it first.
Q and Z
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I am well aware that we have keys that move the viewpoint up and down, from side to side and towards and away from the subject. My idea is for keys that move the viewpoint horizontally, but at 90 degrees to the A and D keys.
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I am well aware that we have keys that move the viewpoint up and down, from side to side and towards and away from the subject. My idea is for keys that move the viewpoint horizontally, but at 90 degrees to the A and D keys.
I'm confused are you talking world relative or view realative
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After using the new viewer for a while I have got the hang of alternating the keys and mouse to move my viewpoint. So if I want to look at the bottom of an aircraft I use the Z key to move down while using the mouse to keep the plane in view. As my view goes more towards looking up at the plane the Z key moves the viewpoint more horizontally and less vertically relative to the object until I am below the centre of the plane. However while I can use it I still prefer the old method where I could rotate the object itself. The new system isn't exactly intuitive and I reckon any skinner used to the old viewer is going to find it a pain at first.
As I understand it the Z and Q keys are viewpoint dependant, they always move your viewpoint up and down relative to your POV. The A and D keys are world dependent, they always move your viewpoint side to side on the horizontal axis relative to the object being viewed. So my suggestion is for keys that move the viewpoint on the object's horizontal axis like the A and D keys but at 90 degrees. This would also be handy in the TE if I want to bring a distant object closer without losing my POV's altitude.
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I believe the word we are searching for might be "rotate". It takes quite a bit of maneuvering to get to certain views, that a circular rotation on 2 axis would solve. Currently in order to get a skin in this position I have needed to "loop" from a zoomed out view and then zoom in, doable but not friendly.
edit: lolz Greebo just beat me to it and was more precise in description.
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I miss the old skin viewer mouse options as well. If holding the mouse button and moving the mouse pivoted the skin rather than pivoted the viewpoint it would be more useful.
However while I can use it I still prefer the old method where I could rotate the object itself. The new system isn't exactly intuitive and I reckon any skinner used to the old viewer is going to find it a pain at first.
I believe the word we are searching for might be "rotate". It takes quite a bit of maneuvering to get to certain views, that a circular rotation on 2 axis would solve. Currently in order to get a skin in this position I have needed to "loop" from a zoomed out view and then zoom in, doable but not friendly.
edit: lolz Greebo just beat me to it and was more precise in description.
^^^^^^^ I agree with both of you 100 percent. Rotate/Pivot.
By all means keep the key commands but please bring back the mouse pivot. :cry I am a fan of the mouse pan/zoom, too, as I prefer mouse-only when using graphics programs (other than hot keys for saving, undo, copy, paste, etc.) but will live with the key commands for pan/zoom if we can get the mouse rotate/pivot back.
I find myself getting the some of the commands backwards every time (W and S, I think--gotta' go try it again to be sure). Will need practice on that. I almost wish the ZOOM keys were swapped with the UP/DOWN, too, but I understand HiTech's rationale.
Kudos on eliminating the fisheye effect when viewing skins. This viewer gives a much better representation of the airplane from the default angle compared to the AH2 Viewer at the same angle.
The _S map on bare metal is awesome.
Now if I can only figure out why it is importing the Default D Pony _N Map onto my skin no matter what I do... :headscratch:
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After using the new viewer for a while I have got the hang of alternating the keys and mouse to move my viewpoint. So if I want to look at the bottom of an aircraft I use the Z key to move down while using the mouse to keep the plane in view. As my view goes more towards looking up at the plane the Z key moves the viewpoint more horizontally and less vertically relative to the object until I am below the centre of the plane. However while I can use it I still prefer the old method where I could rotate the object itself. The new system isn't exactly intuitive and I reckon any skinner used to the old viewer is going to find it a pain at first.
As I understand it the Z and Q keys are viewpoint dependant, they always move your viewpoint up and down relative to your POV. The A and D keys are world dependent, they always move your viewpoint side to side on the horizontal axis relative to the object being viewed. So my suggestion is for keys that move the viewpoint on the object's horizontal axis like the A and D keys but at 90 degrees. This would also be handy in the TE if I want to bring a distant object closer without losing my POV's altitude.
All keys are view relative A & D work exactly the same as Z & Q.
HiTech
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Having just had a good look at this I don't think the problem is your skin after all Vraciu. It seems the alpha skin viewer has developed a few bugs since I last used it.
First the lighting is broken, it appears there is no diffuse lighting being applied to the skin.
Next the only files that actually work are the main skin and the specular map. The normal, power and environment maps do not have a noticeable effect in the viewer. I tested this with a pure white file, both for Vraciu's P-51D and the Ki-43 skin I used for the tutorial.
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I know it isn't the old system but will this help?
There isn't really a move East, West, North or South, it's window up, down, left, and right.
All editors now move with A S D W Q Z and movement is relative to the view window.
S - zoom Away from the object
W - zoom Nearer the object
Q - move toward top (objects moves toward the bottom of the window)
Z - move toward bottom (object moves toward the top of the window)
A - move left of the object
D - move right of the object
Rotate the Point of View direction with the right mouse button
Vary the Speed of movement with the mouse wheel.
Maybe for the skin viewer (and the object editor) it needs a rotate POV around center.
Such as Shift+key rotates around the center of the plane.
Edit:
Never mind about the OE. ;)
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Having just had a good look at this I don't think the problem is your skin after all Vraciu. It seems the alpha skin viewer has developed a few bugs since I last used it.
First the lighting is broken, it appears there is no diffuse lighting being applied to the skin.
Next the only files that actually work are the main skin and the specular map. The normal, power and environment maps do not have a noticeable effect in the viewer. I tested this with a pure white file, both for Vraciu's P-51D and the Ki-43 skin I used for the tutorial.
Whew. Glad I am not crazy!
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Fixed some issue , first the skin viewers brightness settings were set at 0, I.E. no diffuse lighting was happening.
2nd do to the way the system was looking for normal maps, it would never successfully find the map so it was always defaulting to the default normal,env and power map.
3rd I added backward support for the _B files if a _N file does not exist.
Unzip this file into your relase folder, not the EXE is aksktest.exe don't rename it or you would break the next patch.
This should fix the issues.
Now in converting an old skin the only thing needed is to rename the _S file.
HiTech
See this thread.
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See this thread.
You da' man HT. :aok