General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Chalenge on January 09, 2016, 02:01:33 PM
Title: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 09, 2016, 02:01:33 PM
I Googled this (I suppose Google is a verb now) looking for a reason, or an explanation of which Service Pack I just got hit with, but I failed to find anything. Any ideas on why the stealth reboot when they could just inform a user they are getting a service pack "like it or not?"
Quote
The process C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe (PIXEL-SMASHER) has initiated the restart of computer PIXEL-SMASHER on behalf of user NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM for the following reason: Operating System: Service pack (Planned) Reason Code: 0x80020010 Shutdown Type: restart
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: BaldEagl on January 09, 2016, 02:51:55 PM
I've got Windows 10 installed on two computers and haven't gotten this. I also just checked for updates for both and there was nothing but Defender definition updates so I checked my update history and there's been nothing outside of the ordinary. Are you sure you don't have an infection of some sort?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 09, 2016, 04:19:17 PM
I do. It's called Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 09, 2016, 10:24:27 PM
It finally got so unstable I nuked the surface and started over from scratch. I'm waiting now to see if another update comes through. If not. I may never know what it was, but Windows log appeared to be very clear on what happened.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on January 10, 2016, 05:12:19 AM
A couple of things I've heard about Win 10:
On a course for salespeople the Microsoft representatives didn't talk about major updates or service packs, they talked about new versions instead. In my ears that sounds like they don't fix old, they build new instead. With new flaws...
A company level tech just told me that the latest new version bricked one computer and removed F-Secure antivirus from all of the rest.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 10, 2016, 05:05:08 PM
The update which slammed my system into a wall is the Microsoft Active X Version of Flash Update which was patched on 5 January 2015. There was a warning issued in some venues about the broken update, but I did not get the word on that. As I discovered this update does not just break Flash or ActiveX.
This is a problem that will be repeated many times in the future (my prediction), so get a backup plan in place now if you are using Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on January 18, 2016, 08:16:14 PM
Here we go again.............MS is tightening the screws some more & it appears that the enthusiast companys are going along w\ them.........
I could see this 1 backfire..................
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Mar on January 19, 2016, 01:23:51 AM
Wow :bolt:
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on January 19, 2016, 05:54:22 AM
Well, fear is a good motivator. They have tried every other tactic, it was only a matter of time.
Hardens my resolve to avoid Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: HawkerMKII on January 19, 2016, 07:05:04 AM
Help out a puter stupid guy here, stay away from windows 10 for now?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on January 19, 2016, 08:30:12 AM
Many people will tell you it is a fine operating system. That said, it is also the single biggest piece of spyware released to the public. This has been well documented now. If that does not bother you, then go for it.
Just make sure you are not running older hardware as there are many problems with many (not all) older bits of hardware.
As Windows 7 is supported until 2020 (unless you opt for a Skylake CPU, or later) and Windows 8.1 is supported until 2023, I figure something will have to give and will wait to see what does give.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: HawkerMKII on January 19, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
Many people will tell you it is a fine operating system. That said, it is also the single biggest piece of spyware released to the public. This has been well documented now. If that does not bother you, then go for it.
Just make sure you are not running older hardware as there are many problems with many (not all) older bits of hardware.
As Windows 7 is supported until 2020 (unless you opt for a Skylake CPU, or later) and Windows 8.1 is supported until 2023, I figure something will have to give and will wait to see what does give.
Thanks Skuzzy, will stick with what I have for now :salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Getback on January 20, 2016, 03:07:23 AM
That may be caused by your AV.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 20, 2016, 04:20:48 AM
Did you see the movie "The Avengers: Age of Ultron" where the Scarlet Witch reaches into Ultron's chest? That's basically what Windows Update did to IE 11 in this last update. Now, normally before you were to do such a delicate operation you would give the patient a sedative; a big sedative to put it to sleep. Then you would peel back the layers, which in this case would be disabling all of the add-on programs you have installed.
Apparently, that's not how Microsoft rolls. MS can't even figure out how to turn their own processes off and back on without leaving systems across the globe in an unstable condition.
And this is how they limit their costs on tech support.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 21, 2016, 12:59:28 AM
A simple task that Windows used to fulfill easily and without issue was locking icons in place upon the desktop. No longer can Windows do this. Worse, the technical assistance you get at answers.microsoft no longer supports the English language, or at least the people the work for Microsoft do not have a complete understanding of the English language. So, a simple question cannot be translated into any meaningful answer.
So, users are forced to seek out independent tools which will solve the issue. Inevitably, Windows will find these tools to be unacceptable and they will be uninstalled by some future update.
The most recent security update dated 14Jan2016 has in some cases disabled the Internet as an unsafe network. You have to love the irony.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: 100Coogn on January 26, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 27, 2016, 12:28:06 AM
That's a little preachy, since you know nothing about this situation other than what I have shared with you (meaning you know nothing about it at all).
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on January 27, 2016, 03:06:20 AM
People that are complaining about Windows 10 should have let a Tech install it.
I've heard from both entry end enterprise level Techs that they have experienced major issues with Windows 10. Installed and administrated by a Tech. Even used solely by a Senior Tech. How highly qualified should the installing personnel be?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on January 27, 2016, 07:06:26 AM
100Coogn, you have been warned about these types of posts. Just because you are not having any perceived problems with Windows 10, does not mean there are not problems.
There are many well documented problems with Windows 10 and most of them are the result of professionals finding the problems.
How about the recent Windows 10 insider release which breaks many games on Windows 10. Microsoft posted that problem, themselves. I suppose they do not know what they are doing either.
People are finding real problems with Windows 10. I am glad they are coming here to share them. It helps our community quite a bit.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 27, 2016, 09:17:00 AM
Windows 10 was released at least a year too early. That's just the way it is. I don't think Microsoft is doing much deep-seated thinking about their updates either. They give us the program for nothing so they expect to roll out updates as if the OS is in a pristine state.
I've been doing this computer stuff just a short while, maybe thirty-five years. So, maybe I should defer to a 'tech' with a two-year education, but really I think that would be a step backwards.
They used to say that there were only two sorts of F4U pilots. There were those that had ground-looped their Hog, and those that were going to. It's the same way with Windows 10. If you have not experienced a problem up until this point, just wait.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: 100Coogn on January 27, 2016, 11:43:41 AM
100Coogn, you have been warned about these types of posts. Just because you are not having any perceived problems with Windows 10, does not mean there are not problems.
There are many well documented problems with Windows 10 and most of them are the result of professionals finding the problems.
How about the recent Windows 10 insider release which breaks many games on Windows 10. Microsoft posted that problem, themselves. I suppose they do not know what they are doing either.
People are finding real problems with Windows 10. I am glad they are coming here to share them. It helps our community quite a bit.
Not saying that I haven't had problems, just trying to point out that Windows 10 isn't as evil as some people are trying to make it, is all.
Coogan
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on January 27, 2016, 11:51:03 AM
Not saying that I haven't had problems, just trying to point out that Windows 10 isn't as evil as some people are trying to make it, is all.
Coogan
That is a matter of opinion and has little to do with the real problems Windows 10 has. Personally, I consider the telemetry data gathering to be evil, but that has nothing to do with the problems Windows 10 has. It is just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to one.
That said, no opinion overrides facts. There are problems with Windows 10. Bringing those to the surface is better than burying them behind opinion based rhetoric.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on January 27, 2016, 12:12:48 PM
Have anyone tried the free https://www.oo-software.com/de/shutup10 privacy fixer ?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 27, 2016, 07:14:50 PM
Yes, it works for what it is intended. I posted about it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 28, 2016, 10:33:55 AM
KB3124262 installed today and rebooted the machine all on its own even with all the switches set to "DO NOT REBOOT WHILE I AM USING MY COMPUTER!"
I hate Microsoft. Have I said that already today?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on January 28, 2016, 11:34:35 AM
Windows 10 just bricked one of my Laptop's - an Acer ES1-131
Keyboard dont cooperate anymore after an update, using an external keyboard it works though.
1,5 hours into restore now .... grrrrr
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Mar on January 28, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
Windows 10 just bricked one of my Laptop's - an Acer ES1-131
Keyboard dont cooperate anymore after an update, using an external keyboard it works though.
1,5 hours into restore now .... grrrrr
Being able to operate with an external keyboard is a new feature to me. Then again the ones with no mouse and keyboard have been desktops using USB peripherals already. Anyhow I was able to boot to the Repair Mode by three interrupted boot attempts in a row. In one case I did a rollback, in another I unsuccessfully tried that but the visit to the Repair Mode returned the functionality of the input devices.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on January 29, 2016, 05:57:14 AM
Windows 10 just bricked one of my Laptop's - an Acer ES1-131
Keyboard dont cooperate anymore after an update, using an external keyboard it works though.
1,5 hours into restore now .... grrrrr
What I did after the install was to use Macrium Reflect (free version) to backup the boot image to an SSD. Next time it should be just a 20 minute restore, plus apps. My usual backups include the apps, but in case they don't restore and allow Windows to be updated I have another route to take.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Gman on January 29, 2016, 07:51:37 AM
I "had" to try Win 10, had no plans to after reading everything here and elsewhere.
I have a PC that is only used for AH, has my CH stuff on it (warthog and custom peds on a box for DCS and other stuff) as I feel CH is best for AH in terms of precision. Anyhow, only change I had made in months was installing the beta, and when I used TrackIR, TiR started flipping out, I mean really odd behavior. It would lock up the entire PC slowly, not respond to the camera/trackclip, but the PC worked fine without TiR launched. As soon as it was though, big trouble. Natural Point's system tech remoted in and spent 3 hours trying to figure out what happened, and even after multiple reinstalls/registry cleans/etc (which I had done myself several times already), everyone at TiR HQ was at a loss. I was going to post here about it, but IMO it is probably coincidence this happened just after installing the beta - even though not a single change other than a windows 7 update had been done to this system (I don't fly AH too often, so it sits off mostly). Anyhow, with TiR throwing in the towel, and with no TiR with AH or AH beta, and no system restore possible, I was looking at having to reformat and hope that fixed it, as TiR hardware worked on my other systems here, and the machine is really useless to me without it for AH.
My win 7 discs I realize are 500 miles away at our other place in Calgary. I do however still have that annoying Win 10 upgrade to try, so I figure why not, I'm reformatting anyway, maybe this will keep this machine up till I can get my Win7 dics and codes.
What a giant PITA Win 10 is. Sure, it did fix the problem regarding TiR behaving, and it works fine with all 3 versions of the beta, even after reinstalling both many times just to ensure that, but wow, I almost wish I'd just left it until I'm back home considering the time it took to "secure" Win 10, change all the settings/goofy things, and what not. And I STILL can't get that "Cortana" to get lost from the process list, even with it turned off, uninstalling it doesn't work, and it still comes back if you end it. Annoying. I thought the Vista deal was unpopular, but this one may steal that title.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Snork on February 01, 2016, 10:13:47 AM
I installed 10 on my laptop and desktop soon after it became available. After the first glitch I switched back on the desktop (gamer) and am very glad I did. I kept 10 on the ASUS laptop to see how things went. It took a massive dump yesterday when some update tried to force its way in. More than 30 days since I "upgraded" so I couldn't go back to 7. I fought it all afternoon losing my files, programs and various keyboard functions. Since I don't use it for AH I wiped it and loaded Ubuntu. It now works much better than ever for normal computing purposes. Please, please, please, please, make AH Ubuntu friendly!
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 01, 2016, 05:27:09 PM
I think the way of the future with Windows is to install the OS to one drive (likely an SSD) and then move all of your Libraries (Desktop, Downloads, Documents, Music, etc) to another HDD, or SSD. Then when disasters like this happen (and it will continue to happen) you will have to reinstall and then re-associate those folders. Plus you should have a backup strategy that exists off of your system anyway.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 02, 2016, 03:17:36 PM
Well, it begins. Microsoft has moved the Windows 10 installer from the optional category to the mandatory category which means if you have the auto-updater set to automatically download updates, it will get the Windows 10 installer now. Even metered connections are going to get hit.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Snork on February 02, 2016, 11:14:11 PM
I've been fighting the updater on my desktop. I have it set to notify me when updates are available. When I go to update it goes through all kinds of trickery trying to get me to go with 10, to the point of making it very hard to update 7 properly. Then, when I finally get a list of updates for 7 I click the boxes and hit proceed and the dialogue box comes up saying, "Downloading Windows 10." After doing this a few times it finally allows the W7 updates. What a crock!
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 03, 2016, 09:08:47 AM
Even though the nagware is nasty, there are Windows 7/8 updates which eat CPU time like crazy as they are only there to gather telemetry data for Microsoft.
Well, it begins. Microsoft has moved the Windows 10 installer from the optional category to the mandatory category which means if you have the auto-updater set to automatically download updates, it will get the Windows 10 installer now. Even metered connections are going to get hit.
It just occurred to me that it'd be time to install the latest updates before next Patch Tuesday. For now the unwanted updates seemed to be in the optional section, let's see if things change next week. My wife has automatic updates in her computer, mine is manual.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 03, 2016, 11:54:11 AM
It just occurred to me that it'd be time to install the latest updates before next Patch Tuesday. For now the unwanted updates seemed to be in the optional section, let's see if things change next week. My wife has automatic updates in her computer, mine is manual.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download along with a dozen other sites all talking about the update change yesterday.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 03, 2016, 12:06:01 PM
They surely don't make it too easy or low-tech for home users to manage the upgrade options: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351).
Seems like modifying the Registry would be the only option despite all of the warnings if you're using Windows Home flavours.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 03, 2016, 12:18:10 PM
They surely don't make it too easy or low-tech for home users to manage the upgrade options: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351).
Seems like modifying the Registry would be the only option despite all of the warnings if you're using Windows Home flavours.
Yes and I have been concerned about posting that. Seen too many people render a computer into a brick whenever they try to edit the registry.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Gman on February 05, 2016, 11:43:36 AM
One thing that really put the nail in the coffin vis a vis hating Microsoft for me was that default setting in Win10 that opens up your connection to others downloading Win10, in effect using your bandwidth/$ to help Microsoft distribute their product - they don't even ask, it's just implied that you gave permission by clicking "yes" to the install of Win10. Unreal. SO many people with data caps and slower connections have complained about this, I can't believe they haven't disabled it yet in an update. It's the first thing to shut off in a LONG list of settings that need attention - and again, it's been impossible to get rid of that stupid Cortana feature, nothing has worked - it's disabled, but still in the task manager list of programs, happily being useless and eating up resources.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Mar on February 05, 2016, 09:56:26 PM
Welp, my bro's Fail10 machine is having an update shoved down its throat as I type this, anyone else?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Gman on February 06, 2016, 03:10:13 AM
Depending how you have Win10 set up, it can do as it pleases in that department - check his updates settings.
The big news of course is anyone with an older version of windows that hasn't upgraded and has updates set to auto in any way, that stupid Win10 GWX thing will take that as permission to "update" your entire OS sometime shortly.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 06, 2016, 06:07:46 AM
Depending how you have Win10 set up, it can do as it pleases in that department - check his updates settings.
The big news of course is anyone with an older version of windows that hasn't upgraded and has updates set to auto in any way, that stupid Win10 GWX thing will take that as permission to "update" your entire OS sometime shortly.
You can take measures to prevent it. None of my computers have ever been bothered with the nagware.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 06, 2016, 07:05:33 AM
There is only one thing I like about Windows 10. It has a reset button. Of course, it only works if you can get into Windows, but after an update if things have gone wrong it might be the fastest way to get back into working order.
I have 196 games on Steam. One of them doesn't work with Windows 10, but it never did. Guess I was spared this round of pain.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on February 06, 2016, 09:36:13 AM
Yes and I have been concerned about posting that. Seen too many people render a computer into a brick whenever they try to edit the registry.
Ok Skuzzy & Bizman,
Since reading this thread and reading thru the MS KB 3080351 that Bizman posted, I thought "Oh well, someone's gotta be brazen enough to try the registry hack that MS listed that would supposedly "permanently" block the Win 10 OS install"....and since ole Pudgie just happens to be using Win 7 Home Premeium 64x SP1......
Well I have chosen myself to be the sacrificial test lamb for all that is good in AH Land. I may end up regretting this move but I've been getting bored lately so a wipe and OS reinstall would be something to do.
I guess I'm just a sucker waiting to be sold something............
:D :bolt:
So I have gone into the registry & made the mods and have created the registry key & DWORD value as shown and have rebooted my box.....all came back up fine. Checked registry and made note that the modded key & DWORD value is present and active.
Then I have gone into Windows Update & reversed the settings back to the way I had them set before all this Win 10 stuff started to test this out.
I'll post back on the results.
:salute
PS--Forgot to unhide & install the MS updates that put all the Win 10 stuff on my box. Have done this now........wish me well! :D
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 06, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Thanks Pudgie. Guess I'll have to do the Registry hack too after next Patch Tuesday. One might think it'd be a clever thing to do right now, but I want to see the threat in action for professional reasons.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on February 06, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
Update:
After WindowsUpdate made 4 trys this is what I have found so far:
KB 3035583 is installed & I have the nagware showing up in Notifications (the Get Windows 10 icon).
The following WindowsUpdates have repeatedly been blocked and have shown up as failed installs (these same updates were also blocked when KB 3035583 was not installed):
KB 3068708----MS Telemetry KB 3097966----Windows Update Standalone Installer KB 3042058----Update Default Cipher Suite Priority KB 3080149----MS Telemetry KB 3121212----MS16-008: Security Update Windows Kernel (have to look this 1 up to see if Win 7 kernel is being updated to Win 10 kernel).
MS consistently tries to install these updates & they keep getting blocked so I went & hid these 5 updates to stop the nonsense.
As of this time there are no new updates showing up.
Stay tuned.................
:D
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Gman on February 06, 2016, 10:51:44 AM
Getting rid of the GWX Win10 installer nag thing isn't difficult for most users here, but by and large, I'd say 3/4 of the PC users out there even if shown the directions after googling how to do it, wouldn't get it right OR wouldn't consider doing it as it's that "computer code magic stuff" or whatever. Geek Squad and other places are LOVING this right now, as there have been more than a few cases of Win10 bricking PCs doing the auto update on its own.
Also, consider businesses that are running older versions of Windows because they are using finicky other software/hardware things with those systems specific to their company - you know the types of things I'm talking about, and they are numerous. What happens when Win10 just starts installing on all of those? Mark my words, that'll be a big story if/when it happens. Already it's growing just from home users who have PCs/Software that isn't working great with Win10 and having a surprise upgrade.
Not to mention, the loss of personal photos, lost loved ones videos/etc, being lost on bricked PCs due to Win10 auto updating/installing and then bricking - can you spell class action suit, as there is no price that can be put on stuff like that.
Also, there have been reports that even with the Get Win10/GWX stuff completely disabled, some PCs are being "upgraded" to Win10 from older versions of Windows if they have auto updates enabled. When challenged about this, Microsoft's answer was "just turn off autoupdates". Great, so no automatic security updates then. Linus Tech Talk specifically went into all that last night on their WAN show, the video for which should be up today some time, with screen shots/proof of this happening to people.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Gman on February 06, 2016, 10:58:28 AM
Lastly, you would think out of the gate MS would have their own flagship flight sim , FSX, work with their new Win10 OS. It's improving now, but for a long time there were frequent complaints from many FSX users that it wouldn't work in Win10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on February 06, 2016, 11:04:07 AM
Update:
Concerning the "Get Windows 10" nag icon:
I didn't read down far enough to see the registry hack to apply to block KB 3035583 so I have applied this registry mod & have rebooted my box........all came back up fine and the Get Windows 10 nag icon is officially GONE!
So far, so good.
I'll post if something changes but so far all is going well.
Lastly, you would think out of the gate MS would have their own flagship flight sim , FSX, work with their new Win10 OS. It's improving now, but for a long time there were frequent complaints from many FSX users that it wouldn't work in Win10.
The Steam version went SOL for a little while this last holiday, but it's back up and running now. Same was true of Train Sim by the same company.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on February 06, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
Also on the issue of using the Group Policy Editor in Win 7 Home Premium SP1 to shut down the Win 10 Upgrade & Nag Icon:
I had tried to do this earlier but the path does not exist to access the Group Policy Editor (typed gpedit.msc in Search but got no hits) so it appears that the Group Policy Editor can't be accessed in Home Premium..........
I'll assume that this is available in the Pro series and up.
FYI..............................
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 06, 2016, 12:17:39 PM
Yeah, only in Pro since Win 7 I think.
EDIT: There is an installer available for the Home version, but since it does not come from Microsoft I am hesitant to link to it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 06, 2016, 12:35:37 PM
Yes, GPO is an enterprise admin tool, Home version users have to directly modify the Registry despite all of the risks. I've played with Registry settings before and I will do it in the future, but there's many more risks than in using admin tools. I'm talking about incorrect instructions, misunderstanding, typos, inadequate backups...
I'm concerned about what Gman wrote. There's a gazillion of small businesses without a professional administrator using a Home flavour Windows. Just last Thursday I visited a small beauty shop whose originally Win7, now 10, laptop had a corrupted user profile. That has been a surprisingly common problem lately. I've learned that a system restore usually cures that. In this case, however, after the reboot I got an error message that the restore had failed and no modifications had been done. Fortunately the process managed to fix the profile, though, allowing the user to backup their Gift Card list.
What would Microsoft say if that kind of cases weren't that easily fixed? "They should have got an enterprise level version of Windows and a qualified tech to take care of it"???
EDIT: As Chalenge says, I too recall that we used to install an admin pack from somewhere when I was on a course. I can't remember the details, though, so no links from me either.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 06, 2016, 12:49:23 PM
I think the ONLY smart course of action is to start moving all libraries and the hidden user profile sections (installed lists from the user profile) to a second drive. I'm going to keep saying it, because this is only going to become a more frequent problem. If you do that then a Windows reset will fix everything with very little loss of data, if any.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 06, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Smart indeed. I doubt that none of my business customers were capable to do that, not the beauticians nor the cad engineers and the rest in between. A nice little batch file might help, but I can't code and even if I could there'd be a handful of businesses within my reach.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on February 06, 2016, 01:43:24 PM
Bizman & Chalenge,
The only reason why I did this is due to my curiosity w\ MS actually putting a couple registry hacks out in a KB article that would defeat their purpose to get Win 10 installed on as many computers as they could so I wanted to find out if the registry mods they listed were real & would work.
As far as me getting around in the Windows registry & making the mods this ain't my 1st time diddling around in there so I wasn't worried about making any mistypes concerning registry language.............
:D
You will also notice that I didn't post the process of how to go about entering these registry mods in the registry and I'm not going to either...........for the same reasons why y'all ain't gonna post the link to the Windows admin pack.
:aok
Just gonna post if the mods actually work or not.
So far they show to be working.
I'll post if I detect any changes.
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 06, 2016, 01:52:33 PM
Smart indeed. I doubt that none of my business customers were capable to do that, not the beauticians nor the cad engineers and the rest in between. A nice little batch file might help, but I can't code and even if I could there'd be a handful of businesses within my reach.
I understand. It's just that I think this would save you a ton of time on service calls AND your customers would think you were miraculous for saving all their data.
There will always be some programs that just get along better in the Programs folder, but for those others there is no reason they can't move unless you just don't have a drive.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 06, 2016, 02:27:11 PM
To add to my previous post: Even if I could code an easy-to-use batch it would be to no avail since people only call me after they've got into trouble.
@ Pudgie: I wasn't worried about you :D . But figure if someone copied the advice on e.g. the General Forum and titled it "Get rid of the annoying 10 nag", adding some instructions and explanations of his own, using no punctuation or capital letters as we've seen some posters do... How many bricks would there be?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: ghi on February 06, 2016, 09:14:08 PM
I just did what this guy is suggesting step by step and disabled automatic updates; I don't know if is going to work and keep me away from forced update to 10; :headscratch:
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 07, 2016, 02:40:47 AM
Ghi, that's the way to do it until Microsoft changes the status of them from Optional to Critical or forces a critical update which changes your update settings back from manual to automatic.
However, the guy didn't mention the ones Skuzzy warned about some time ago in Hints and Tips: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.msg4998528.html#msg4998528 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.msg4998528.html#msg4998528). Hide them, too.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: ghi on February 07, 2016, 08:15:16 AM
Thx ,Bizman! i'm going to disable the ones in Scuzzy's link also. :cheers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: ghi on February 17, 2016, 08:56:55 PM
Interesting message from Apple to customers ; :(
"February 16, 2016 A Message to Our Customers The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand. ....."
more here; http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: pembquist on February 17, 2016, 09:49:17 PM
"February 16, 2016 A Message to Our Customers The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand. ....."
more here; http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
Its probably a....no, its definitely a thread derail but I gotta ask if anyone can explain in simple terms why an Iphone is so hard to crack. With my Iphone there is only a 4 digit passcode to get in and then you can read everything. So I'm taking it you can't just brute force crack the passcode and be in.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 17, 2016, 10:38:19 PM
It's not and Apple is being stupid here. Apple could take the phone into their possession and "update" the firmware with a version that does not even have a passcode, or whatever security they are using. I think the reason they are fighting it is that they don't want to undermine the image of security they have created for their customers.
There is another ideological problem that we can't go into, which is why I support Apple not doing this. That, and I do not believe the phone will have anything on it worth the expense of cracking the phone.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 18, 2016, 02:08:40 AM
Its probably a....no, its definitely a thread derail but I gotta ask if anyone can explain in simple terms why an Iphone is so hard to crack. With my Iphone there is only a 4 digit passcode to get in and then you can read everything. So I'm taking it you can't just brute force crack the passcode and be in.
There was a short article in our morning paper today, written in a way that ordinary people understand. Here's what I got from it:
As for brute force cracking the passcode, the iPhone will delete all data after ten (10) subsequent erroneous trials.
Making a "Master key" would cause issues sooner or later. As you know, there's no secrets that can't be revealed by buying, spying, blackmailing, leaking etc.
@Chalenge: I can think about two reasons why Apple can't just take the phone to open it with their own tools. First, Apple doesn't qualify as a government authority so they should be supervised for not hiding evidence during the process of hacking in. Second, the supervisor should be knowledgeable enough to fully understand what the Apple techs are doing during the process which would allow him to memorize and copy the process which would cause a similar threat as the Master key.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 18, 2016, 07:32:57 AM
This viewpoint is precisely why I'm not discussing it further.
As an afterthought, "authorized by the judiciary" might be closer to what I meant.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 19, 2016, 02:51:35 PM
I have been meaning to mention that O&O Software had releases "ShutUp10" (actually I already mentioned that in another thread), and O&O is a Microsoft Partner. However, not too long ago Windows 10 started an attempt to prevent ShutUp10 from starting. You know the warning I mean, "your system will be at risk."
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 23, 2016, 01:34:22 AM
Not quite as serious, but there are a number of issues which can cause your mouse to become completely unusable. It is a facsimile of Zeno's Paradox, where the mouse gets lag-ish and only moves half way to your intended target but not quite getting there.
One such problem has been identified as caused by Intuit software, an old nemesis of Windows processes. The latest version that comes with Turbo Tax will render your mouse useless, and make the Windows Start menu inaccessible.
Cute.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 23, 2016, 09:02:06 AM
Not quite as serious, but there are a number of issues which can cause your mouse to become completely unusable. It is a facsimile of Zeno's Paradox, where the mouse gets lag-ish and only moves half way to your intended target but not quite getting there.
One such problem has been identified as caused by Intuit software, an old nemesis of Windows processes. The latest version that comes with Turbo Tax will render your mouse useless, and make the Windows Start menu inaccessible.
Cute.
Intuit is the worst thing you can do to your computer. I have ranked it passed Norton now. The last time I tried Intuit software, I had to reinstall the operating system as the computer would not boot after the software was installed. I'll never trust that virus again.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 23, 2016, 10:21:46 AM
There is going to be an awful lot of people that never think (or refuse to think) about taking Quick Books, or Turbo Tax off of their system.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 23, 2016, 10:55:34 AM
There is going to be an awful lot of people that never think (or refuse to think) about taking Quick Books, or Turbo Tax off of their system.
True. What those applications do to the Windows registry should be considered criminal.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 25, 2016, 04:18:40 PM
Windows Reset #3 since "free" upgrade.
The Windows Start button stopped working. This machine did not have the "Intuit" problem, but failed just the same. I had moved Autodesk software to one of the HDDs on the system to make more room on the boot SSD, but I don't know that it caused the issue. The failure of the Start menu is common enough that there are known fixes posted, but the Windows Reset is the last resort and I had to resort to it.
Fortunately, I have a great install and backup strategy, so no files were lost in the process.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on February 26, 2016, 08:29:12 AM
Today I met a couple who had decided to upgrade from 8.1 to 10. After two days of the upgrade just sitting there, saying "preparing to upgrade" they finally canceled it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on February 26, 2016, 10:00:02 AM
Today I met a couple who had decided to upgrade from 8.1 to 10. After two days of the upgrade just sitting there, saying "preparing to upgrade" they finally canceled it.
I have noted the Windows updater has been taking forever to show updates lately. I wonder if the Windows servers are getting hammered with Windows 10 nagware? :)
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on February 26, 2016, 10:37:18 AM
There has to be at least a billion searches at the MS solutions site for fixes to everything going wrong on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on March 02, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Update since initial posting on 2-6-16:
To date the 2 registry workarounds to stop the "Get Win 10 Installed" nagware & block the Win 10 upgrade installer are still showing to hold up on my box.
To date:
MS tried to install the following Win 10 updates as follows:
KB3126587--tried 4 more times to install this update and failed to install all 4 tries KB3126593--same as above Next time I see these show up in Windows Updates I'm gonna hide them to stop the nonsense.
Our favorite MS Win 10 updates as follows:
KB3035583--tried 2 more times to install...install shows to be successful but has consistently been blocked. KB2952664--same as above
All other MS updates that came thru did not have anything to do w\ Win 10 and so were installed as I warranted necessary.
So far, so good.
FYI.
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on March 03, 2016, 11:31:43 AM
Today I advised a lady to roll back to 8.1 since she lost her Internet connection.
Someone said he's happy with 10 because it will find and fix errors. I wonder how it could download any fixes if it breaks the connections.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 03, 2016, 01:42:24 PM
Oh, yeehaa! we have updates coming down today! Just great!
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on March 08, 2016, 08:45:54 AM
Updates coming... or not! Today I visited a rare case, an elderly computer savvy lady who couldn't get the updates download because Windows 10 by default considers cellular connections as metered. Which they aren't here... She had already found the Microsoft instructions linked from the network settings, but there was no option to change the setting in the given location! So much for real time documentation... I finally found a site telling how to do it the professional way in the Command Prompt.
Not to mention the Tablet Mode can be a real PITA to figure out why you can't find the Desktop!
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 08, 2016, 10:01:18 AM
Updates are done by regions now. The strategy keeps Microsoft servers free. They find a few fast connections in an area and then use them to copy the files to another computer (yes your Windows 10 boxes are servers now for Microsoft). Once they get enough of those fast systems, they keep track of them and use them to deliver the updates to the region.
You never know when you are going to get updates, or from where. Makes it nigh impossible to block the updates as they might come from a few hundred different IP addresses.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on March 08, 2016, 12:01:48 PM
Yup. Peer to peer... Need I mention that I set that function off - although I'm not sure at all that it would make any difference.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 08, 2016, 12:51:45 PM
Yup. Peer to peer... Need I mention that I set that function off - although I'm not sure at all that it would make any difference.
If you disable it, my understanding is it can take much longer to get updates (maybe not such a bad thing).
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: 715 on March 08, 2016, 12:54:47 PM
Stupid question: if Windows updates are going through someone else's computer, what's to stop that person from hacking into their own computer and inserting malware into the updates it serves up to others?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on March 08, 2016, 01:01:58 PM
I'm glad Microsoft is using other peoples computers to send updates to me. Now my computer has less work to do.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on March 08, 2016, 01:11:51 PM
I'm glad Microsoft is using other peoples computers to send updates to me. Now my computer has less work to do.
Uh no,...your computer has more to do as it will be used to distribute updates as well. Getting them from a computer next door to you, or from Microsoft does not change any work your computer must do. Delivering the updates to other computers adds to your computer work load.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on March 08, 2016, 02:34:01 PM
unlikely that my PC can be used to send updates to other people since my router has a password on it. People do all the work on their PC and send the update files to me. :)
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Estes on March 08, 2016, 02:50:14 PM
As stated in another thread, I'm running Win 10 home premium (retail copy) and have updates of all kinds disabled and I haven't gotten any since I installed it. There could be a difference between the free upgrade version (always a catch) or, ya'know...PEBCAK.
p.s. that's not to say that people are not having issues with it I just think a lot of it could be cured with people doing their research. Still a slippery slope microsoft is going down, I don't like it myself but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Estes on March 08, 2016, 02:52:10 PM
unlikely that my PC can be used to send updates to other people since my router has a password on it. People do all the work on their PC and send the update files to me. :)
That's not how the peer to peer thing works. Damn, a napster generation kid and everything. :) The router doesn't matter it just means rather than MS sending out updates from one locale, everybody who has downloaded it already sends it from their location and it spreads. Never used bittorrent?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 08, 2016, 03:01:17 PM
unlikely that my PC can be used to send updates to other people since my router has a password on it. People do all the work on their PC and send the update files to me. :)
Your router password is irrelevant. If you can get the update, then you can deliver it as well. Your router just sees your computer wanting to connect to another IP address, just as it would any WEB site, except this time it is another computer.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on March 08, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
My router uses a Dynamic IP Address so people who connect to my IP won't be connecting to the correct IP as it has already changed.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 08, 2016, 03:12:51 PM
My router uses a Dynamic IP Address so people who connect to my IP won't be connecting to the correct IP as it has already changed.
Latrobe, it does not matter what your IP address is. It does not matter how many times the IP address changes.
Do you understand how bittorrent works? Microsoft's update deployment works very similarly. Try reading this: http://lifehacker.com/285489/a-beginners-guide-to-bittorrent
The only thing really different is Windows 10 is doing all the finding, broadcasting, and storing information about other computers your computer can connect to or can connect to your computer.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on March 08, 2016, 05:18:53 PM
Got my bricked w10 laptop back after a motherboard change, after 5 weeks. It normally take 2 weeks the distributor told me. My guess is many many had problems after these updates.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 08, 2016, 06:36:46 PM
It's a bit like the guy working at the CDC that feeds the mosquitoes his blood everyday to keep the captured brood alive and producing offspring. There is a 'firewall' that keeps the bugs from escaping, but he sticks his arm through a one-way curtain and 'Here I am! Come get some blood."
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 09, 2016, 05:56:45 PM
And again this morning a new update came through the works. It would have probably been a few days before someone mentioned it that I would notice, except it rebooted my systems and every one of them hung amid boot.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 10, 2016, 02:09:12 PM
Here we go again with a security update for Flash.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 10, 2016, 02:21:59 PM
Here we go again with a security update for Flash.
Is Microsoft delivering security updates for Flash? That will keep them busy. :)
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 10, 2016, 02:29:39 PM
Yes, and yes. Thankfully I only have Flash on the school system.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Dragon Tamer on March 10, 2016, 03:40:30 PM
I installed the latest graphics drivers, and Windows 10 has an update. I'm scared that if I restart my system that the windows update will break something but at the same time you guys have been saying that you are supposed to restart right after updating drivers.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on March 10, 2016, 03:49:43 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 10, 2016, 04:27:19 PM
I cannot believe you just said that.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 10, 2016, 04:31:40 PM
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 10, 2016, 04:39:55 PM
Maybe we need another rule about giving destructive advice? Dragon Tamer don't do that! hehe - had to say it.
Yes, after you install the NVIDIA driver update you should reboot immediately. I'm not sure why Nvidia doesn't just suggest it upon completion of the installation, but if you do not do this then Windows will be in an unstable state and any other installs would really mess things up.
Windows 10 has a "fix all" nuclear option where you can reset the entire OS. That will fix everything, but it will also leave you without any programs installed.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Mar on March 10, 2016, 04:48:54 PM
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on March 10, 2016, 07:08:11 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Estes on March 10, 2016, 07:20:06 PM
Latrobe, are you trolling? There are some here that have data back-ups off site (as in another building, across multiple systems and drives). You're preaching to the choir for most here bud.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 10, 2016, 08:43:39 PM
Even so it's still bad advice. Saving to your desktop? :confused: It must be something new. Maybe we can call it 'goofy troll.'
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on March 11, 2016, 06:01:45 AM
Maybe we need another rule about giving destructive advice? Dragon Tamer don't do that! hehe - had to say it.
Yes, after you install the NVIDIA driver update you should reboot immediately. I'm not sure why Nvidia doesn't just suggest it upon completion of the installation, but if you do not do this then Windows will be in an unstable state and any other installs would really mess things up.
Windows 10 has a "fix all" nuclear option where you can reset the entire OS. That will fix everything, but it will also leave you without any programs installed.
You mean they borked the "Windows Repair Install"? In previous OS's you could run the Windows Repair install to fix the OS, and it would also keep the programs you had installed. They fixed that after Windows XP.
Of course, after the Windows Repair Install,. you had to do all the updates again. Did they get that part fixed?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on March 11, 2016, 01:35:31 PM
Repair install still works, but if the OS bricks and Repair doesn't work (this already has happened twice this year) you can do the Reset. I believe Reset is new to Windows 10 (I never tried 8, or 8.1). Windows 10 does not even need you to know your Windows key. Reset will restore the OS to a pristine install including all of the updates. It does eliminate your installed programs.
I like Reset, because over time Windows gets to be littered with left over installers and libraries that you don't need. I have seen Windows become really unstable, especially when it came to driver updates. Reset really helps to get rid of those cobwebs and start fresh.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on March 11, 2016, 03:07:22 PM
Reverted back to 8.1 because the X-ray program of a vet didn't work on 10. They still had to let the German company support guy use TeamViewer to fix the registration problem. In a month or two they'll get it working on 10. The same happened with 8, Microsoft simply wants to first launch a new OS and only after that start to advise how to make programs work on the new OS. Oh wow.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Pudgie on May 21, 2016, 07:34:37 AM
Update since the initial application of the MS provided Windows registry hacks to stop Win 10 nagware and Win 10 installs on Win 7:
So far I've had no more issues w\ Win 10 trying to invade on my Win 7 boxes.
When I upgraded my current box and finally got all sorted out I installed the registry tweaks in my newly installed Win 7 before I hooked up my Ethernet cable and have ran the dreaded Win 10 install updates to test all out.....registry tweaks are still working and are still preventing the Win 10 nagware from showing up and are still stopping any Win 10 installs to date.
Wife's box w\ Win 7 on it has performed flawlessly as well since I installed these tweaks on her box. It also has passed every test I have run when I intentionally ran the Win 10 updates as well to date.
1 of my wife's friends mistakenly installed Win 10 on her laptop w\ Win 7 and it messed her business up pretty good. She came by and asked if I could get Win 7 back for her, so I went in and restored her laptop back to Win 7 then once I did that I also installed these 2 registry tweaks on her laptop and so far she has been a happy camper since.....going on 6 weeks to date.
So far, so good.....all is still working well w\ these 2 tweaks.
Ongoing..........
:salute
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on May 21, 2016, 08:13:10 AM
Good to hear, Pudgie.
Also, I can confirm that so far the automatic Windows Update on my wife's computer hasn't installed any of those W10 related updates by simply setting Windows Update not to install recommended updates from the very start. It showed 73 recommended updates where I could find 8 of the 10 not wanted updates as per Skuzzy's list. The two missing ones couldn't be found from the installed updates, either.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Condor on May 26, 2016, 04:28:58 PM
Intuit is the worst thing you can do to your computer. I have ranked it passed Norton now. The last time I tried Intuit software, I had to reinstall the operating system as the computer would not boot after the software was installed. I'll never trust that virus again.
I've been using Quicken and Turbo Tax since 1997 without a problem. Am I just lucky?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on May 26, 2016, 04:32:14 PM
I've been using Quicken and Turbo Tax since 1997 without a problem. Am I just lucky?
Intuit, for some reason, inserts about 4MBytes of registry data into the Windows registry. Once they do that, it will not be removed, even if you remove the software.
Intuit also requires your computer to be wide open, security wise, so they can run their precious updaters.
Although, the last time I tried Turbo Tax, I had to re-install the operating system as it would not longer boot after the application was installed. It was the last time I would ever use Turbo Tax. I got an accountant instead. Less frustrating.
These are the kinds of things which make me crazy.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Condor on May 26, 2016, 04:39:47 PM
I upgraded an 8.1 machine to 10 because I hated 8.1. Windows 10 seems better but I don't like the telemetry issues. Is there a good way to stop Windoes 10 from phoning home. I know Iolo claims to do it in system mechanic but I don't have much faith in such programs.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Randy1 on May 27, 2016, 07:03:43 AM
I upgraded an 8.1 machine to 10 because I hated 8.1. Windows 10 seems better but I don't like the telemetry issues. Is there a good way to stop Windoes 10 from phoning home. I know Iolo claims to do it in system mechanic but I don't have much faith in such programs.
W10 comes loaded with sharing information with MS but a good many can be turned off easily in settings. Watch for apps that are set to live and turn those off if you want. I have no app live.
Everyone should keep in mind Google as an example grabs everything you do that they can. Selling information is how they make money. MS wants a piece of the action.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on June 20, 2016, 04:52:51 PM
I disabled firewall for outbound telemetry in my W10 laptop. Let see how long it stays that way....
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on July 15, 2016, 04:20:30 PM
There's a good program for killing telemetry for both win7 and win10, Spybot Antibeacon. I have tested it and nothing in the external firewall since that.
Anyone else have the same results as me trying it ?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 16, 2016, 05:48:50 AM
Killing Windowns 7/8 telemetry is as simple as removing a few updates. Not so simple with Windows 10.
See my hints and tips post: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,71591.msg4998528.html#msg4998528
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: save on July 16, 2016, 11:35:43 AM
The only thing I had to do was to kill webroot antivirus/malware to get spybot antobeacon to close down Win10 telemetry and bring webroot up again.
At least until next update :aok
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Snork on July 16, 2016, 05:08:21 PM
To follow up on my prior post in this thread, I have now re-loaded W10 on my 6 year old Pentium dual core laptop(it had bricked during the SP upgrade some months back in 10 so I had formatted and loaded Ubuntu). I am impressed! It is now much faster than it was with W7 or Ubuntu! If it keeps up the good work I may just go ahead and upgrade my desk top gamer.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 17, 2016, 06:57:00 AM
When I hear people say W10 is faster than W7, I have to pause for a moment. We have a W10 box in the office running on a 3.6Ghz i7-4790 CPU and it boots slower than the W7, 3.2Ghz Core 2 system sitting next to it. Much slower. It is a default installation of W10 (from a W10 Pro disk) as is the W7 system.
I often wonder what people do to make their W7 computers boot so slowly if W10 is booting faster for them.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on July 17, 2016, 08:32:02 AM
I often wonder what people do to make their W7 computers boot so slowly if W10 is booting faster for them.
One possible answer is that upgrading to Windows 10 removes much of the crapware preinstalled in <enter brand here> computers. Plus it may do the same for many other programs installed by the user, including anti-virus programs. Chrome seems to be on their to-be-removed list, too, especially at major Edge updates. Getting rid of background activity, including those that the user might find necessary, makes any computer boot and run faster. You know that, I know that, and now all of the readers of this post know that, too. :evil:
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: 633DH98 on July 17, 2016, 07:06:06 PM
I find that after turning off Windows X "fast startup" it may even boot more slowly than 7. Windows X doesn't actually shut down, it goes into a form of hibernation. This hibernation has lead to problems with multi-boot systems that turning off the "fast startup" seems to fix.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Estes on July 17, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
I've been running win10 for awhile now, and i've messed about with fastboot on and off and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. It boots into windows before my monitor even gets past the BenQ logo screen, windows 7 from what I recall was about the same. But, I'm running a higher end machine than most. YMMV
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Condor on July 17, 2016, 08:10:09 PM
When I hear people say W10 is faster than W7, I have to pause for a moment. We have a W10 box in the office running on a 3.6Ghz i7-4790 CPU and it boots slower than the W7, 3.2Ghz Core 2 system sitting next to it. Much slower. It is a default installation of W10 (from a W10 Pro disk) as is the W7 system.
I often wonder what people do to make their W7 computers boot so slowly if W10 is booting faster for them.
I have two windows 7 laptops which have bloatware from the vendor but also have my AH2 machine which is a home-built with a clean install of Windows 7. Aside from microsoft word and excel, I don't have much else installed on it except for some utility programs (for removing drivers, etc) but all 3 boot much slower than the desktop I upgraded to Win 10. So it's not just the computer vendor bloatware. The worrisome thing is that laptops now can't seem to get the monthly windows updates. Update still works for my AH2 machine. I wonder if Microsoft is screwing with our windows 7 machines to get us to move to 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 17, 2016, 11:44:12 PM
I often wonder what people do to make their W7 computers boot so slowly if W10 is booting faster for them.
and I often wonder what people do to make their W10 computers boot so slowly if Win7 is booting faster for them.
Can't have anything to do with messing with system registries I'm sure.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2016, 06:49:35 AM
Latrobe, they are box stock.
Yes Bizman, bloatware definitely will contribute to slow boot times, but most people did upgrades to Windows 10, which still leaves the bloatware intact. There are also those systems which were not maintained properly, which the upgrade could fix as well. If the latter is the reason, then I'll never be able to duplicate it.
The hibernation angle might be something to look at. Maybe the upgrade is enabling hibernation while the full install does not. That could have a placebo effect on the boot times (i.e. not really doing a full boot, just looking like it is).
I am going to look further into it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Bizman on July 18, 2016, 07:29:59 AM
--- bloatware definitely will contribute to slow boot times, but most people did upgrades to Windows 10, which still leaves the bloatware intact.---
Does the upgrade process actually leave the bloatware intact? I only have performed the upgrade once or twice, so I can't remember for sure if the installation leaves the list of removed programs on the desktop. It definitely does so if you run the "non-destructive" reinstall.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 18, 2016, 07:46:24 AM
And you failed to list anything other than what CPU each build uses, and not even a specific CPU on the Win7 build. Are they running on Hard Drives? SSDs? Different Hard Drive/SSD for each build? What else is on the Hard Drive/SSD? What programs are to open up on startup? What other parts are even in the builds? You left out a ton of crucial info that all plays a part in how fast your PC is, and something is telling me that you left it out intentionally.
BTW, It's been a few months now since I updated to Win10 and it fixed all the issues I was having with Win7. You said that I never fixed the problems and that they would arise again. Well I'm still waiting for my PC to break on me. How long am I suppose to wait?
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: RagingPineapple on July 18, 2016, 09:12:18 AM
Also to be noted are what programs Windows 10, as well as programs installed with hardware drivers, are set to run on startup. On my new build, the first reboot after all the drivers and programs were installed was painfully long, but after I disabled a lot of the high tasking programs in the "startup" tab of the task manager, my boot is now less than 15 seconds from start to finish.
Windows 10 is a very light weight OS and runs amazingly fast and smooth, even on my cheap HDD. You just sometimes have to take a look at the simpler things that might be slowing it down first.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2016, 11:32:42 AM
The boxes are stock. They both use the same hard drives. Neither has any applications, except Aces High, installed. They are straight forward OEM installations of the OS's with all Microsoft updates installed.
In operation, I have not found Windows 10 to be slower or faster than Windows 7. Then again, it is a limited set of data.
Boot times for Windows 10 is around 28 to 30 seconds. Windows 7 is around 19 to 22 seconds. Odd thing was, it was booting faster, then after an update, it started booting slower and has leveled off.
I'll say it again. These are stock installations of the full OEM OS's. No changes whatsoever to either of them.
Latrobe, I said if the source of the problems were not fixed, they would come back. You seem to think the source was Windows 7. It was not. There was something else which caused your Windows 7 box problems.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 18, 2016, 12:00:05 PM
Well I put some neosporin and a bandaid on my CPU so it should be fine now.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: RagingPineapple on July 18, 2016, 12:36:46 PM
I find it hard to believe that Aces High is the ONLY application running on your computer. All hardware needs drivers to run them, and even the box stock version of Windows 10 comes with applications like "Microsoft One Drive" that have a high impact on your start-up. Check your "Startup" tab in the task manager to see what apps are running on start-up and their respective impacts.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
It is the only application.
Drivers are not applications. Yes, the boxes use the latest version of hardware drivers available. We do not install ancillary utilities for the drivers.
And one more time. The operating systems are running stock configurations. If they run something, as part of the default, then it is running.
As these are test systems, the default behaviors will not be compromised.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: RagingPineapple on July 18, 2016, 02:40:46 PM
So you'll go as far as to mess with the windows registries files on windows 7 to get it to do what you want, but you won't do something as simple as disabling a useless startup application to reduce your boot time with Windows 10? No wonder why you "shake your head" when you hear that people are booting faster with Windows 10. It's as if you are trying to skew the results to fit your bias.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 18, 2016, 02:55:24 PM
I had Windows 10 Pro running on an Intel Pentium D 945 and it started in about 15 to 20 seconds. The longest part of it's startup was the system POST.
I still have it running on an AMD Phenom 9100e and it starts in 15 seconds consistently. There are no SSDs in either system and the computer with an i5 SSD running Windows 7 takes 30 to 40 seconds to boot.
When people are saying that Windows 10 is slower than Windows 7 I have to just shake my head and wonder how much they have done to modify their systems to such a point.
I have also never had any issue with the OS that have been reported on the MS forums. This probably has something to do with the fact that these posts are coming from people who are still on the insiders program and testing the beta versions of updates. The majority of these issues get resolved before the update is ever rolled out.
When customers bring in their computers that won't boot, they usually say that they unplugged it while it was updating to Windows 10. The issues with updates seem to largely be user error. I then have to reinstall Windows 7 just to repeat this process again a couple of days later. I don't understand why they are fighting the update so much since Windows 10 is so much better than 7 in every way.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2016, 03:04:53 PM
So you'll go as far as to mess with the windows registries files on windows 7 to get it to do what you want, but you won't do something as simple as disabling a useless startup application to reduce your boot time with Windows 10? No wonder why you "shake your head" when you hear that people are booting faster with Windows 10. It's as if you are trying to skew the results to fit your bias.
My home system is not what is in comparison here. The system here is a box stock system. Nothing changed. Box stock installation. Nothing changed. Boht OEM installations are complete. Nothing changed.
Am I saying it badly? I must be doing something wrong. Would someone please review what I have said and tell me where I went wrong? I am pretty sure I have said it a few times. Nothing has changed in the default configurations of BOTH systems.
<snip>I don't understand why they are fighting the update so much since Windows 10 is so much better than 7 in every way.
I have not found Windows 10 to be any better than Windows 7 in my applications. My main issue with Windows 10 are the issues I have had to deal with which seem silly to me. Like how it suddenly would not allow us to access a share drive until we changed the name of the computer. This was after a recent update. There are other things, but that was the latest.
Or how it suddenly will update and reboot in the middle of your work. Just have to make sure nothing is running when not at the computer.
Personally I detest the telemetry data they are stealing in Windows 10. Overall, I do not see a benefit to Windows 10. At least, in my applications.
I know one day the issues will subside and it will be as bug free as Windows 7. They probably will get there faster than they did with Windows 7. That is not to say Windows 7 does not have any issues. It does. They are just smaller and less intrusive right now.
Anyway, I am still collating and monitoring it.
Boot time comparisons are hard to nail down unless you have the same hardware. I am still digging for data on this.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Brooke on July 18, 2016, 04:25:18 PM
To me, it seems Windows boot times are always horrendous, regardless of what Windows you have or what you have installed, as are Windows shut-down times. It just goes from horrendous (when things are the best they can be) to more horrendous (if not).
So, I went to having hybrid sleep enabled on my machine and not turning it off. It takes about the same power usage while it is hybrid sleeping as when the machine is turned off.
Now, I tap the shift key or wiggle my mouse, and I'm back up and running in seconds.
(Another thing I hate about Windows is how it is sometimes nearly impossible to tell what program is hogging down your CPU, network, or hard disk -- even when you use tools like procmon and know how to tell which processes are using which crappy svchost instance. Arg!)
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: RagingPineapple on July 18, 2016, 06:09:00 PM
@Brooke: Sounds like you need to discover the amazing powers of the Task Manager! Simply press Lcntrl+Lshift+esc, or access it from your cntrl+alt+del page. It will tell you all the programs that are running on your computer as well as their percentage of CPU usage, memory usage, disk usage, and even network usage. You can even monitor your computers current performance from the performance tab, or control which programs run on startup from the startup tab. It will even tell you the impact the program has on your startup. It's an amazing tool.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Estes on July 18, 2016, 06:43:28 PM
I haven't had horrendous boot times since windows 2k. As I mentioned, with fastboot and everything OFF hitting the power button on both the monitor and PC at the same time it will be waiting at the login screen before the monitor even finishes turning on. I am on SSD's, but like pineapple and a few others - I've had no problems with my windows 10. Mine isn't the free upgrade, it's a retail copy from best buy, not sure if there is any difference but like any version of windows turning off toejam you don't need/use makes a drastic difference.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Brooke on July 18, 2016, 06:51:00 PM
@Brooke: Sounds like you need to discover the amazing powers of the Task Manager!
Try it right now, click on "show processes from all users", now see if you can tell me what programs really are utilizing the services of conhost, svchost, and taskhost. The problem is that lots of programs can be using those things. Even when you do a list of which processes are using them, you often won't be able to really tell what is going on. For example, there are times when taskhost is using up huge cpu and disk access. Could be Windows checking for updates (and why that sometimes takes huge cpu and disk is beyond me) -- but good luck telling that for sure. Is it some program checking for updates or installing updates because it is doing that on a schedule? Good luck trying to determine that in many cases.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on July 18, 2016, 09:33:46 PM
@Brooke: Sounds like you need to discover the amazing powers of the Task Manager! Simply press Lcntrl+Lshift+esc, or access it from your cntrl+alt+del page. It will tell you all the programs that are running on your computer as well as their percentage of CPU usage, memory usage, disk usage, and even network usage. You can even monitor your computers current performance from the performance tab, or control which programs run on startup from the startup tab. It will even tell you the impact the program has on your startup. It's an amazing tool.
Or how it suddenly will update and reboot in the middle of your work. Just have to make sure nothing is running when not at the computer.
In 10-11 months on my laptop and almost 8 months on my desktop I've never had this happen and I don't have prompt before updating set. Both machines wait patiently until I go to shut down before installing updates.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 18, 2016, 10:57:20 PM
In 10-11 months on my laptop and almost 8 months on my desktop I've never had this happen and I don't have prompt before updating set. Both machines wait patiently until I go to shut down before installing updates.
Same here. It's well known that leaving a machine running all the time will cause it to suddenly shut down when updates are ready. Shutting it down every night (once a week at the latest) is the best way to prevent this from interfering.
My media PC (which sometimes runs for weeks depending on what I have it doing) will restart when updates are ready. Luckily for what I use it for I don't need to be signed in.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 19, 2016, 02:37:28 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on July 19, 2016, 04:05:32 AM
You fellas can't see the forest for the trees. If you have a large upload, and I'm talking 14-16 hours, while Windows downloads an update then Windows WILL reboot while ignoring that upload. That is, unless you have that switch set that I mentioned. Even then Microsoft may decide at their leisure that your system must be rebooted and force it to happen.
Not a big deal, though. Right? Wrong. This is just one example. You might be doing any number of things when this happens. You don't use your system like that, other users do. Those users need to know what can happen.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Brooke on July 19, 2016, 04:05:52 AM
I've heard a lot people saying they hate this telemetry thing and all I have to wonder is what kind of illegal things they have saved on their computer that they don't want anyone to know about. :bolt:
As long as you never get in a lawsuit (frivolous or otherwise), never oppose anyone in a position of power, never run for public office, and never disagree with any organization or agency, you have nothing to worry about. But if you ever do go through a lawsuit, it will open a whole new view regarding access to e-mail, records, surfing, etc.
Also, here's a book recommendation.
Three Felonies A Day by Harvey Silverglate, Alan M. Dershowitz
"The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why? The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have exploded in number but also become impossibly broad and vague. In Three Felonies a Day, Harvey A. Silverglate reveals how federal criminal laws have become dangerously disconnected from the English common law tradition and how prosecutors can pin arguable federal crimes on any one of us, for even the most seemingly innocuous behavior."
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Brooke on July 19, 2016, 04:08:41 AM
We have lots of Windows computers that stay on all the time and don't reboot themselves. We don't have "automatically install updates" selected on them.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 19, 2016, 05:17:31 AM
You fellas can't see the forest for the trees. If you have a large upload, and I'm talking 14-16 hours, while Windows downloads an update then Windows WILL reboot while ignoring that upload. That is, unless you have that switch set that I mentioned. Even then Microsoft may decide at their leisure that your system must be rebooted and force it to happen.
Not a big deal, though. Right? Wrong. This is just one example. You might be doing any number of things when this happens. You don't use your system like that, other users do. Those users need to know what can happen.
AS A MATTER OF FACT!
I have terrible internet and only recently got it upgraded to 3Mb/s. Even still it takes me forever to do a 1GB download/upload. I have tons of games that I play and most have frequent updates that are in the 1GB-4GB area. I also do videos all of which are anywhere from 700MB-2.5GB in size. I am very frequently leaving my computer on all night in order to get updates downloaded and videos uploaded.
HOWEVER! On nights that I do not need to do either of these I turn my computer off and Windows will do whatever update it has been waiting to do. NOT ONCE since I have updated to Win10 have I had Windows take control of my computer and shut it down for an update.
Your assumption is WRONG! and your argument is now INVALID.
:airplane:
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 19, 2016, 06:29:15 AM
Again, one more time. No changes to the default configurations are done on test systems. We have to have a known baseline to work from.
This has turned into a useless discussion. I keep having to repeat the same thing, over and over again.
I made an observation and brought it here because I thought it was interesting. Then get bombarded with useless defensive drivel. Just forget it. I'll figure it out myself.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Chalenge on July 19, 2016, 06:50:09 AM
His logic is flawed anyway Skuzzy. I think anyone can see that, but I think you are right by leaving it there. Just wait. Eventually it will come back to bite him.
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 19, 2016, 07:18:23 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Latrobe on July 19, 2016, 10:56:19 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: RagingPineapple on July 19, 2016, 11:10:27 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 10 - The Force is rebooting me
Post by: Skuzzy on July 19, 2016, 12:06:15 PM
This thread is now locked as it became clear there was no way to have a logical discussion about this topic.