Got occullas t all up and working in game Sunday. I all ready see things like the clip board and other gui elements should be fixed in 3d space. Others like the stuff in the corners should not because they are meant to always be in view.
Did a bunch of test gui work, things like 3d cursor and such. Not ready for prime time, but gave me the basics for what needs to be done.
HiTEech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 14, 2016, 01:13:23 PM
Did more work yesterday and have the GUI displaying correctly.
I hate the thing, It gives me an incredible headache after just a few minutes that last for 3 hours. I think I would be more interested in 3d glasses along with eye tracking.
Also I am not sure if I have there lag/predicative smoothing set up correctly yet.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on March 14, 2016, 01:57:09 PM
Did more work yesterday and have the GUI displaying correctly.
I hate the thing, It gives me an incredible headache after just a few minutes that last for 3 hours. I think I would be more interested in 3d glasses along with eye tracking.
Also I am not sure if I have there lag/predicative smoothing set up correctly yet.
HiTech
Hitech, it could be that your Rift isn't set up for your correct intra-pupilary distance (IPD). Setting the IPD correctly to match the horizontal distance (in millimeters) between the pupils of your eyes is what prevents eye strain, headaches or blurred vision. Minutely incorrect settings are enough to cause discomfort. Setting this correctly may also improve the 3D effect. See this Oculus article about improving comfort from various discomforts (see item #7 on the list): http://riftinfo.com/oculus-rift-motion-sickness-11-techniques-to-prevent-it (http://riftinfo.com/oculus-rift-motion-sickness-11-techniques-to-prevent-it).
BTW, the consumer version (CV1) of the Rift coming out in a couple of weeks will have an easy way to dial in correct IPD settings.
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 14, 2016, 02:04:00 PM
Hitech, it could be that your Rift isn't set up for your correct intra-pupilary distance (IPD). Setting the IPD correctly to match the horizontal distance (in millimeters) between the pupils of your eyes is what prevents eye strain, headaches or blurred vision. Minutely incorrect settings are enough to cause discomfort. Setting this correctly may also improve the 3D effect. See this Oculus article about improving comfort from various discomforts (see item #7 on the list): http://riftinfo.com/oculus-rift-motion-sickness-11-techniques-to-prevent-it (http://riftinfo.com/oculus-rift-motion-sickness-11-techniques-to-prevent-it).
BTW, the consumer version (CV1) of the Rift coming out in a couple of weeks will have an easy way to dial in correct IPD settings.
FWIW,
I'll give it a try.
Strange thing is I am not prone to regular motion sickness. But my first experience with game sickness was with wolfenstine 3d. Didn't realize it until the 3 day connecting the headache with the game.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Bizman on March 14, 2016, 02:10:12 PM
Strange thing is I am not prone to regular motion sickness. But my first experience with game sickness was with wolfenstine 3d. Didn't realize it until the 3 day connecting the headache with the game.
You might like to try ginger to help with the virtual motion sickness. It's cheap, easily available as fresh, powder and pills, and most importantly it doesn't make you dizzy!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on March 14, 2016, 03:11:00 PM
Strange thing is I am not prone to regular motion sickness. But my first experience with game sickness was with wolfenstine 3d. Didn't realize it until the 3 day connecting the headache with the game.
Hope that helps.
This VR stuff is new enough that some of the "rules" for it are works in progress, I think. And now that GVS (galvanic vestibular stimulation) is being worked on... well, all I can say is... when that finally hits prime-time... always have a bag ready. Usable GVS was thought to be a ways off; but then again... maybe not so far. It appears that Samsung is serious about it: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/14/11220836/samsung-etrim-4d-headphones-movement-vr-inner-ear (http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/14/11220836/samsung-etrim-4d-headphones-movement-vr-inner-ear)
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wiley on March 14, 2016, 03:20:46 PM
This VR stuff is new enough that some of the "rules" for it are works in progress, I think. And now that GVS (galvanic vestibular stimulation) is being worked on... well, all I can say is... when that finally hits prime-time... always have a bag ready. Usable GVS was thought to be a ways off; but then again... maybe not so far. It appears that Samsung is serious about it: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/14/11220836/samsung-etrim-4d-headphones-movement-vr-inner-ear (http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/14/11220836/samsung-etrim-4d-headphones-movement-vr-inner-ear)
FWIW,
:confused:
Wow... Could we make that attachment mandatory for the negative-G stick stirrers?
Neat stuff. Not sure I want it in my flight simming experience. ;) "It works, but heart attacks during play are up."
Wiley.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on March 14, 2016, 04:41:51 PM
I wonder if the CV1's better resolution will be better or worse for motion sickness/headaches with the Rift/Vive/Etc. Seeing HT pull the maneuvers he does in his Rv8 makes me a little concerned - if he can do that stuff and not get motion sick/headaches/etc, yet the Rift gives it to him - again, for people pre disposed to such issues, it makes me wonder how common an issue this is going to be with VR...
I was going to buy a DK2 cheap as well, but considering that the retail version is out soon and is far more advanced - including not just the res but the ability to set things like the pupil distances/etc and other tweaks better, I'm just going to wait for my pre order.
I've not tried VR with any flight sims, but the guys using DK2 with DCS have raved about it, and I know what a difference TiR makes with AH - I bet with AH3 it'll look pretty incredible on the Rift.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 14, 2016, 05:00:33 PM
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on March 14, 2016, 11:59:10 PM
While I don't get sick from TiR, it does cause a pain in my neck sometimes, even after just short use. Mostly from trying to hold still and keep the view in center/front and the sky in view I think, no matter how I set it up I find it moves around when I don't want it to, causing me to subconsiously try and hold my neck still. I use the center/pause button a lot for TiR, but even just dropping my jaw/relaxing my head a bit, boom, view moves to where I can't see, so I have to hit the re center button again constantly. If I move the deadzones away from the center a lot to keep this from happening, then TiR moves like crap for tracking cons, so then what's the point...
This is my specific concern with VR having never tried it - most of my AH experience is getting into fights with a lot of contacts around, which means a lot of rapid view movement - so rapid that I still flick TiR off as my thumb/hat use for the last 25 years will always be faster than using TiR for me, and more intuitive as well.
I'm happy you're working on it though at HTC for AH, one thing I think AH always has done better (not just one thing) than everyone else is the view system, how it works and how configurable it is, while still being straight forward. I wish other sims would just buy it from HTC, along with the keyboard/stick config system. Anyhow, TiR works incredibly well (even though I'm not that great with it) with AH view systems, so I'm confident VR/Rift will too.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 15, 2016, 04:45:33 AM
I can play for hours on end with no side effects and I do :)
As above you need to get the IPD sorted.
I use the Vorpx drivers with Opentrack to use the DK2 with AH (2d only with the current build, though I did have 3D for a while using tridef with the DK1).
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Randy1 on March 15, 2016, 06:30:55 AM
Some evidence, although far from conclusive, is that eye exercises could be good for your eyes. Trackir really works your eye movement.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on March 15, 2016, 08:14:13 AM
Hitech take a look at this implementation. It is the best I have seen for sim use.
https://flyinside-fsx.com
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Mister Fork on March 23, 2016, 02:09:29 PM
I now have the Rift but having issues getting the Rift to work. I have software the emulates the TrackIR use - but nothing yet for actual VR integration.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 23, 2016, 06:38:36 PM
I use vorpx, or you could wait for AH3 as it sounds like HT is coming along nicely with the code for native support.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 23, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
Working on it more right now, is way more writing then I thought there were be, almost all gui stuff.
HiTech
HT, you're probably already aware of this, but just in case...
Oculus VR's SDK version 1.0 (actually said to be up to SDK 1.3 now) will be available sometime on/after 3/28/16, when their consumer version (CV1) starts shipping. Rift owners may get notified of the latest runtime, or the Oculus website will probably have it available for download. SDK 1.0+ is said to be backwards compatible with DK2's, but includes many optimizations since their last one (SDK 0.8).
HT, you're probably already aware of this, but just in case...
Oculus VR's SDK version 1.0 (actually said to be up to SDK 1.3 now) will be available sometime on/after 3/28/16, when their consumer version (CV1) starts shipping. Rift owners may get notified of the latest runtime, or the Oculus website will probably have it available for download. SDK 1.0+ is said to be backwards compatible with DK2's, but includes many optimizations since their last one (SDK 0.8).
The SDK really doesn't impact what I'm working on. But thanks.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 24, 2016, 03:58:55 PM
No pressure HT, but I am F5'ing this thread every 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 24, 2016, 04:03:51 PM
:) Had a good night at it last night, basic GUI issues are designed.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: EagleDNY on March 24, 2016, 07:05:35 PM
This game is going to need a disclaimer: Warning. Use of Oculus Rift in this game may make you hurl on your keyboard.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: 715 on March 24, 2016, 07:53:54 PM
I think I read somewhere that putting a barely visible virtual nose in the view (where your real nose would be) reduces nausea. Something about giving a subliminal virtual reference to your body.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on March 24, 2016, 08:10:10 PM
715 that sounds interesting. Worth a try at some time (like a cursor type of thing). :aok Just don't base it on my nose..... the screen would be blocked :D The schnozz has been broken for sure once, maybe more.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on March 24, 2016, 09:00:45 PM
715 that sounds interesting. Worth a try at some time (like a cursor type of thing). :aok Just don't base it on my nose..... the screen would be blocked :D The schnozz has been broken for sure once, maybe more.
Better a "nose" than (ahem) other appendages. Actually, AH is intrinsically suited to VR because cockpit views are integral to the game (F3 mode notwithstanding). Note suggestion number 5 in this article: http://uploadvr.com/five-ways-to-reduce-motion-sickness-in-vr/ (http://uploadvr.com/five-ways-to-reduce-motion-sickness-in-vr/)
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Bizman on March 25, 2016, 03:40:24 AM
I've mentioned it before, ginger pills might help. Since ginger is edible as such and can be used in quite large portions for spicing food it's also a safe alternative for medical nausea pills.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on March 25, 2016, 03:31:52 PM
Musing on the use of the AH film player/editor with VR headsets like the Rift. Thought I’d put these thoughts out there as something to think about, since we’re on the subject; may actually be “wish” for future consideration. (Caution: musing may be boring and possibly dangerous, proceed with care. :rolleyes: I've added the bold font to make it easier to wade through):
A few diverse facts re. VR and AH, as I see them: • AH is intrinsically an ideal VR game experience (i.e., it's a seated sandbox game experience that is highly competitive and absorbing; it accommodates VR-friendly frames of reference like cockpit interiors that improve player comfort; and it is arguably a very “social” experience due to vox and text chat tools, so there should be no sense of player isolation induced by headsets). • HT’s current work on making AH a VR-compatible experience will undoubtedly make it a far superior VR flight game/experience to others that are currently available (e.g., WT, DCS, etc). • The AH Film Viewer has been a useful tool to produce player made videos of AH game experiences that have helped increase awareness of the game through video sharing sites. Hundreds of AH videos have been uploaded to YouTube from dozens of video makers, myself included. • YouTube now supports 360 degree videos (360 degree videos are not true VR, but are best viewed on VR headsets) • Oculus has sold literally hundreds of thousands of DK1, DK2 and CV1 Rift units so far. The new Vive headset and Sony’s new headset have also sold thousands of units. The Reddit r/Oculus forum alone currently has around 70,000 registered users--not all those have headsets yet, but all are interested in VR experiences. • Many of the Rift/other headset owners are avid cockpit game players (ie, racing games, space sims, flight sims). Many of them already own joysticks, HOTAS and yoke input gear. They would welcome AH into their mix of playing options. I've noted this from their many comments I’ve seen on r/Oculus.
Conclusions: • This is a market waiting to be tapped. If AH were robustly marketed to this pool of VR game/sim players, HTC might see an influx of hundreds, maybe thousands of new AH players from that pool. • AH player-produced media that accurately represented AH's VR experience might assist in this effort.
Therefore, should/could the AH Film Viewer be further improved to produce/output VR-compatible media (i.e., 360 degree videos or even game-like VR experiences) to promote the game for the VR era?
Possible challenges: • Adapting the Film Viewer for use with VR headsets, just as the game does. • Creating editing GUI within it to permit good VR media creation (e.g.,setting up shots easily, etc.) • Player/media creators' learning curve to produce good content with such an editor might be steep? • Capturing player headset movements/positions in the film player and its output media (a tech challenge similar to capturing TIR views in the film viewer)? • Lack of audience control of in-VR “camera” viewpoint s in output media may cause discomfort (a tech challenge because not providing user control of VR experiences is a known comfort issue)? • Cost (in resources & time) versus Benefit (new players/subscriptions) to take on the effort? • What else?
Personally, I think it’s an idea that may at least be worth exploring, but would happen after the major game update is done and if solutions or workarounds to challenges are possible.
(BTW, it’s probable that HT and Company are way ahead of me on the above “musings”, and may have their own views on this one way or another)
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 26, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
So this means you wish to help me with alpha testing next week? :devil
HiTech
That's great progress! Unfortunately, all I can do is add to the VR hype train, so...
The Rift consumer version (CV1) started shipping today, so there’s lots of buzz in VR circles right now. There was an embargo on reviews and such until today, so here’s a few links for any who are interested. Unless any of you are going to buy second-hand Dev Kit units, the CV unit is what you’ll be ordering (although there's a backlog, apparently--they're out of stock for weeks/months).
First is Tom’s Hardware Oculus Rift Review of the CV1. Fairly lengthy and in-depth, includes recommended PC – VR specs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/oculus-rift-virtual-reality-hmd,4506.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/oculus-rift-virtual-reality-hmd,4506.html)
Here is Polygon’s review, less tech/specs-oriented but fairly thorough: http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/28/11306708/oculus-rift-review (http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/28/11306708/oculus-rift-review)
Here is info that may be eventually be applicable to AH as an independent game, because even though Oculus has set up its online Store to sell VR games/apps, developers are still free to distribute games outside of it. Yet it appears that there are still details to know about how to run such non-Oculus Store sourced games on the Rifts: https://support.oculus.com/878170922281071 (https://support.oculus.com/878170922281071)
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 29, 2016, 07:36:49 PM
It's ummm next week HT... where's the test code :devil
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Waffle on March 29, 2016, 09:15:45 PM
I almost threw up a few lines of it after 30 seconds of testing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Change how far the eyepiece is from your face Waffle - I ended up having it super close to my face to avoid 'that' feeling of being spun on a tire swing. Then again, I don't get motion sickness at all - one would say I have very good sea legs. :D
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on March 30, 2016, 02:28:28 PM
Change how far the eyepiece is from your face Waffle - I ended up having it super close to my face to avoid 'that' feeling of being spun on a tire swing. Then again, I don't get motion sickness at all - one would say I have very good sea legs. :D
This begs what may be a premature question, since it's early days with VR work but:
At what point—if at all—would it be appropriate to announce that VR is officially in development for AH3, so that a larger pool of alpha/beta testers who own headsets, including CV1 and Vive owners, might be recruited, maybe from sources like Reddit’s r/Oculus forum membership?
Many of those folks also have their “sea legs”, know VR enough to spot what needs attention and therefore might offer valuable insights or suggestions to improve VR functionality/experience in AH3, and lastly, might help as first adopters of “AH VR” to champion the game to that community.
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 30, 2016, 02:39:46 PM
This begs what may be a premature question, since it's early days with VR work but:
At what point—if at all—would it be appropriate to announce that VR is officially in development for AH3, so that a larger pool of alpha/beta testers who own headsets, including CV1 and Vive owners, might be recruited, maybe from sources like Reddit’s r/Oculus forum membership?
Many of those folks also have their “sea legs”, know VR enough to spot what needs attention and therefore might offer valuable insights or suggestions to improve VR functionality/experience in AH3, and lastly, might help as first adopters of “AH VR” to champion the game to that community.
FWIW,
With luck mid next week, shipped the first alpha today. Most is working. There are a few up down glitches need more work.
I am now working on the ability to move fixed display items like FPS info at the top of the screen to be user moveable both for VR and non VR users.
All the fixed position clip board and fixed position window GUI along with 3d cursor is complete, need to write a simple configuration to be able to sets it's size and depth.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 30, 2016, 03:40:39 PM
The clip at the top of the clipboard is 3D.... that blew my mind.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Hungry on March 30, 2016, 06:03:50 PM
364.72 the newest Nvidia Driver Released 3-28-2016
For what its worth
Virtual Reality Virtual reality is here! This Game Ready driver brings full support for the Oculus Rift virtual reality headset, optimizations and enhancements for virtual reality games such as EVE: Valkyrie, Chronos, and Elite Dangerous, and the latest support for NVIDIA VRWorks. Make sure your PC is GeForce GTX VR Ready before stepping into the Rift! The new driver also brings the latest support and enhancements for the upcoming HTC Vive headset.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: GrandpaChaps on March 30, 2016, 07:25:56 PM
Wait, what? Back the truck up? Where's the link to info on AH having support for OR? I thought it wasn't????!?!?!? I must be missing the boat big time.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 30, 2016, 07:54:55 PM
Wait, what? Back the truck up? Where's the link to info on AH having support for OR? I thought it wasn't????!?!?!? I must be missing the boat big time.
It's a work in progress. HT always said he'd wait until the consumer versions hit the market before they decided to jump into it.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: GrandpaChaps on March 30, 2016, 07:58:38 PM
I may take you up on that a bit down the road, if I can find the time. Starting a new business is a lot of work and it is hard to find the time to get any more than the bare "keep wife happy" minimum outside of it.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Nefarious on March 31, 2016, 06:41:43 AM
Ah OK. Initial 'brain dump' - planes looked small in 3D like I had a 2x head in a half scale plane, possibly due to a wide FoV setting from my side - some wierd shadowing in the tower - with headtracking on via opentrack mouse versus clipboard was a bit of a nightmare - with headtracking enabled some static objects moved in the vertical axis (ie radio bar) - tank gunsight was tiny (might be FoV related) - zoom toggle didn't seem to work - 3D looked gorgeous, sitting in the mossie pants down on the deck trees whizzing past was beautiful - FPS seemed pretty good (i5 with a GTX960) - definitely a better experience than all the past 3D hack drivers I've used with AH (vorpx/tridef)
I'll do some more today but an awesome result cheers HT.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Mister Fork on March 31, 2016, 03:54:47 PM
Ok - what are the instructions to get it to work with Beta 15? Should it be 'native'? I have a DK2.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on March 31, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
More for you HT. - got online fine - FoV does make a difference to the cockpit feel (dropped it to 120 from 152) - I figured out zoom/fov in game is working but not render on the oculus. When you change it you can see the field what is being rendered changed (ie horizon, trees etc) but your fov in game does not change - ground clutter off makes a big FPS difference
Also worth noting for ALL potential 3D ysers. I am strongly left eye dominant. As such the gunsight is never on center for me (like in real life), and when I focus beyond the gunsight it's not unusual to see 2 gunsights. HT it may be worth adding some documentation around that as people do not experience this on 2D screens.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on March 31, 2016, 08:19:18 PM
Gun sight needs to be set to infinite distance.
GUI is now on a fixed plane in front of you.
Zoom not functional yet.
Glad you got it to work
Ht
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on April 01, 2016, 02:46:13 AM
puffy ack looks so cool in 3D as you fly through it. Clouds rotate as you turn your head.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 01, 2016, 05:59:45 AM
Question?
using a 3D headset like the DK2 or CV1, etc....does this require head movement similar to TracIR? or not?
for those of us that have very limited neck movement ability...... I've figured with my inability to barely turn my head left or right or up/down, that buying TracIR was a waste of money for myself..
does the same apply for OculusRift / 3D hardware?
TC
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on April 01, 2016, 06:06:16 AM
Vulcan can answer that best I'm sure, I have similar questions, as I use TiR when just tooling around in AH, but flip it off due to A, my thumb/hat views being faster and more natural due to time I guess, and B, my neck probably feeling something like yours when turning it around too much.
Vulcan IIRC has said he uses some sort of "track" thing WITH the DK2, I don't think it does it all on its own, but having not messed with it, I'm just going by what I understood from what he's said, he'll certainly explain it better than I can, and I'd like some more info too on the DK2 use as they are VERY cheap right now with guys dumping them, and I'm still holding off on ordering both the Vive and Rift to see if it's something I really want to use. All the work HTC is doing and Vulcan's initial posts already have me considering getting in line now for rift.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on April 01, 2016, 07:06:03 AM
Vulcan why wouldn't you set fov to the same as the rift of about 100? My goal would be for the size to be the same as the real thing. Something like world view that increases or decreases the size of everything?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on April 01, 2016, 02:02:15 PM
using a 3D headset like the DK2 or CV1, etc....does this require head movement similar to TracIR? or not?
for those of us that have very limited neck movement ability...... I've figured with my inability to barely turn my head left or right or up/down, that buying TracIR was a waste of money for myself..
does the same apply for OculusRift / 3D hardware?
TC
There are three selling points to VR: immersion/big screen; 3D; head tracking. You do not HAVE to use the head tracking. Though I would say if you're going to turn off head tracking stick with a monitor.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on May 04, 2016, 11:19:33 AM
The biggest selling point for me with VR is immersion and presence. If done right you are IN the plane.
If the geometry is done right scalewise - probably by getting the right FOV as Vulcan hinted - orientation in the 3d space will become very natural. Distances, relative speed, altitude you will be able to judge by your gut feeling. It's really amazing. Formation flying and landings become a breeze. For that to happen it's important that your head movement does translate 1:1 with as low as a latency you can get. That's why if you want to check your six your have to turn around in your seat. Any kind of non-linear scaling will mess with your body perception and will most likely cause nausea.
If done right your brain will even fool you and give you a sense of motion. It's pretty amazing that I can feel the forward rocking motion when coming to a halt abruptly when flying in VR. With the left wing down I would feel Gods g tugging on my left side.
Sure, the current generation of HMDs still have very limited resolution, the optics are not perfect as you will get a lot of reflective artefacts (called god rays) and for AAA graphics you need a monster of a PC. But it IS the future of simming. If you think Track IR was a revolution there is hardly a term to name what VR does immersionvise to simming.
I cannot go back to 2d flying. The future is bright!
Owning a HTC Vive I, of course, root for Vive support in AH3. The Rift had a head start but since the release of the consumer versions HTC is catching up fast!
Kirin out
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Mister Fork on May 04, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
What would make more sense is to throw in the body representation for pilots, nav, bombardiers, and gunners. So that when I put on my VR goggles, I can see my hands, body, legs and feet. If I'm in a bomber as a pilot, I see me too, or other positions...
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on May 04, 2016, 01:44:06 PM
VR headset sales forecasts for 2016 (alone) vary significantly but that said, they will be significant.
One projection forecasts 2016 sales of the Rift and the Vive at a combined volume of 4.7 MILLION UNITS [1]. Business Daily projects a more conservative forecast of 1.7 MILLION UNITS of PC-tethered AND console headsets combined [2].
Let’s take a WAG and assume both of those projections are overestimates and only 1 million units are sold in 2016. Say that half of that number are console-based headsets, leaving 500,000 PC-tethered headsets as the 2016 sales figure of consequence to a game like Aces High. (I personally believe that number has already been significantly exceeded). Assume further that 20% of the 500,000 will be for purchased solely for business, government & education uses, leaving 400,000 as consumer purchased headsets and that only 5% of those 400,000 buyers will be game players interested in playing air combat games (likely a very low figure). That leaves a prospective market (again, generated from 2016 sales) of 20,000 game enthusiasts to which a game like Aces High could be marketed on the basis of VR support. (Again, the preceding was just a guess)
Now since that was just a WAG, I could be very far off in either direction--low or high--but according to The Verge, HTC /Samsung sold 15,000 units of the Vive within 10 minutes of having gone on sale [3] (and that figure doesn’t even consider how many Rifts were sold during the same time frame). So that even if these are just early adopter sales that taper off over time, that sales volume indicates that PC-based VR headset sales will probably exceed the WAG figure.
Like it or not and ready or not, it’s something to prepare for because VR could spell a rebirth for the flight sim genre. And btw, not to put too fine a point on it, but I don’t think that this possible boom has been lost on the developers of DCS, WT or good ol' AH either.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on May 05, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Sup Kirin!
I love flying the 109K4 in AH3, the ability to pull snapshots for targets under the nose with the 30mm is a hoot.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on May 05, 2016, 05:56:49 PM
I'm staying up late the next couple nights with the rumors that Rifts are going up on sale at Amazon and Best Buy. I'm hoping I can pick one off, if anyone sees a retail unit for sale anywhere the next few days during this time, PM me. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on May 06, 2016, 01:34:37 AM
Hey Vulcan! I am really envious! Hope I can join you soon! There are some ways to play Rift games on the Vive but I haven't looked into it too much yet.
Gman. Reddit says that there might be only a handful of Rifts in selected stores - so without camping outside the right one it might be a tough task! Good hunting, Sir!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 19, 2016, 10:30:55 AM
A Vive walked into my office 10 mins ago.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: The Fugitive on May 19, 2016, 11:17:06 AM
Call an exterminator! :devil
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on May 19, 2016, 12:19:42 PM
Would be interesting to hear which of the CV1 or Vive you like better. I am currently leaning towards the CV1 for sims as the screen seems clearer. Do you plan on allowing both hmd to be connected and let the user select which one to use?
Looking forward to trying in AH3.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 20, 2016, 12:59:49 PM
Would be interesting to hear which of the CV1 or Vive you like better. I am currently leaning towards the CV1 for sims as the screen seems clearer. Do you plan on allowing both hmd to be connected and let the user select which one to use?
Looking forward to trying in AH3.
Terry
I doubt I'll do selection, but simply turning 1 off would cause the change.
No configuration is required if the device is on, AH uses it.
Also I am very pleased with how well the latest oculus drivers display. The upgrade to the latest drivers took less then a day. The rewrite of the UI to a hemispherical display took all week.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on May 20, 2016, 04:00:05 PM
Exciting news! Especially since the new OR update did break Revive. Looking forward to explore AH in VR!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM
A sample of the VR interface.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on May 20, 2016, 04:32:20 PM
Do you have any pref or advice for prospective VR buyers HT with regards to Aces High? IE which is better in your opinion, the Vive or the OR CV1? I'm buying one or the other, but holding off until the word is in on which is better for this game and flight sims in general. Don't care about running around the room shooting zombies from a small square of carpet, mostly about how it works sitting down with HOTAS in hand.
Very cool so far.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 20, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
Do you have any pref or advice for prospective VR buyers HT with regards to Aces High? IE which is better in your opinion, the Vive or the OR CV1? I'm buying one or the other, but holding off until the word is in on which is better for this game and flight sims in general. Don't care about running around the room shooting zombies from a small square of carpet, mostly about how it works sitting down with HOTAS in hand.
Very cool so far.
Havn't used the Vive yet and I only have a DK2 oculus. The vive appears to come with some cool controllers.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on May 20, 2016, 04:58:43 PM
Havn't used the Vive yet and I only have a DK2 oculus. The vive appears to come with some cool controllers.
HiTech
The Vive controllers are pretty cool, takes a few minutes to get used to them though. Make sure you have plenty of room for the Vive, it doesn't work so well in a small area.
ack-ack
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: bustr on May 20, 2016, 06:13:40 PM
Did you solve the gunsight bitmap presentation by presenting it as part of the HUD ladder or, is it out there on it's own but being presented like the HUD ladder?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on May 20, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
VR interface is looking sweet!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on May 20, 2016, 07:05:53 PM
HiTech,
I too am very excited about the VR experience. Forgive if I stomp ahead a lil bit; but how feasible would it be to include clickable areas (like we have in menus) to control certain keyboard strokes? My feeling is that flipping the VR up or off, in order to find the keyboard to "type" ruins the mood. (breaking the 4th wall).
For example: We already have "End Flight", how about Engine start/stop, Clipboard Map zoom, Tail hook, and Dive Flaps. It would be even more intuitive if we had certain spaces on the cockpit itself that were clickable or programmable.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 20, 2016, 07:11:55 PM
I doubt I'll do selection, but simply turning 1 off would cause the change.
No configuration is required if the device is on, AH uses it.
Also I am very pleased with how well the latest oculus drivers display. The upgrade to the latest drivers took less then a day. The rewrite of the UI to a hemispherical display took all week.
HiTech
Not sure you can turn them off? The cv1 appears to stay in standby all the time?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Randall172 on May 20, 2016, 11:02:34 PM
I too am very excited about the VR experience. Forgive if I stomp ahead a lil bit; but how feasible would it be to include clickable areas (like we have in menus) to control certain keyboard strokes? My feeling is that flipping the VR up or off, in order to find the keyboard to "type" ruins the mood. (breaking the 4th wall).
For example: We already have "End Flight", how about Engine start/stop, Clipboard Map zoom, Tail hook, and Dive Flaps. It would be even more intuitive if we had certain spaces on the cockpit itself that were clickable or programmable.
like a falcon: bms with fully interact-able 3d cockpits?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on May 21, 2016, 03:10:06 AM
like a falcon: bms with fully interact-able 3d cockpits?
Nah..... just a couple of items that you need to access. Like a toggle switch to go through the fuel tanks and change from bombsight to cockpit views, like that.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on May 21, 2016, 05:06:08 PM
Nah..... just a couple of items that you need to access. Like a toggle switch to go through the fuel tanks and change from bombsight to cockpit views, like that.
That is nice, but in reality HOTAS is better. Looking around to find toggles in the cockpit takes time = dead in combat. Don't forget when you go to VR you release a whole bunch of functions on your stick (the view hat can be used for switching tanks etc).
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on May 22, 2016, 12:58:38 AM
I have plenty of buttons, but you will never have enough to do everything... unless I switch modes...
I haven't been able to get the mode switch program down though. Shutting my engine down or changing fuel tank with mouse click, even dive flaps, are not heat of the battle decisions... usually.
It just seems that HiTech is taking a lot of things like this into consideration when he is creating the movable virtual objects. These are things you would need to do differently when your input devices and keyboard are not in sight.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on May 22, 2016, 04:41:42 PM
It would be cool to pull the eject handle or grab chute ring............. just saying ...ain't askin' for all that stuff though ;)
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 23, 2016, 08:51:05 AM
Havn't used the Vive yet and I only have a DK2 oculus. The vive appears to come with some cool controllers.
HiTech
HiTech I hope you have a CV1 on order. The difference between dk2 and cv1 is substantial IMO. I wore my cv1 for 2hrs yesterday. I could never do that with dk2. Also what about adding mirrors for rear view?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 24, 2016, 02:11:56 PM
Patch 20 has Oculus 1.32 I.E. the latest driver support.
I have a few issues yet to work out with the mouse cursor. And the Carrot (Thing that is blinking where you type).
After entering the game use Ctrl F4 to center you head set.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 24, 2016, 03:55:25 PM
I have double images? I am running the Oculus 1.4 and I have both the cv1 and the Vive plugged in. The image looked great but there were two of them like you are seeing double?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 24, 2016, 04:01:32 PM
Tried the Vive and it does not work at all so I assume not implemented on this release?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 24, 2016, 04:03:17 PM
Do you want VR comments on this thread or the bug/issues thread?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Skuzzy on May 24, 2016, 04:32:21 PM
The Vive is not supported yet, only the Oculus is supported in this release.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 24, 2016, 04:35:53 PM
It always starts in VR mode. Is there a way to start in regular mode?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 24, 2016, 06:29:25 PM
Turn off your rift
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on May 24, 2016, 06:41:24 PM
The cv1 does not have an on/off button like the dk2. It is in standby all the time waiting for the Oculus home or a program that uses it starts? I think you will have to provide de a switch maybe in video settings to use or not use the cv1. The Vive operates similar but you may have to start the steamvr program. The cv1 has a sensor that turned the display on when you put it on your head.
The only other program I am familiar with Flyinside for P3D uses a separate exe to start the P3D program to use the CV1.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on May 26, 2016, 01:34:20 AM
Really excited to see AH with VR support, I haven't played for years but there's no doubt I'll be back as a subscriber when this goes live.
I've got the same problem with the current beta as Terry though, getting double vision for the 3D objects (aircraft, clipboard etc)
I'm using an Oculus Rift (Consumer version) are there any specific settings I should be using?
Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on May 26, 2016, 08:22:18 AM
HiTech - did you have some time to familiarize yourself with the Vive? Any chance for Vive support in the intermediate future?
I started writing the Vive Monday at home. Yesterday spent half the day trying to install the Vive on my work system. Never did get it to go, but last night I got it to finally run (not in AH simply the calibration stuff) on my home system.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Sarrick on June 01, 2016, 09:07:35 AM
Yes, I am running the latest 1.4.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 01, 2016, 09:34:30 AM
I started writing the Vive Monday at home. Yesterday spent half the day trying to install the Vive on my work system. Never did get it to go, but last night I got it to finally run (not in AH simply the calibration stuff) on my home system.
HiTech
HiTech
Please consider providing for a checkbox to auto detect the Vive and the Rift say in the video settings window. If neither box is checked, AH starts in normal mode. If either box is checked, AH detects and starts with that HMD active.
Thank you for your consideration.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 01, 2016, 10:16:15 AM
Please consider providing for a checkbox to auto detect the Vive and the Rift say in the video settings window. If neither box is checked, AH starts in normal mode. If either box is checked, AH detects and starts with that HMD active.
Thank you for your consideration.
Terry
Ill do something to be able to disable a tracker. Not sure exactly how I wish to do it yet.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on June 01, 2016, 03:05:54 PM
I noticed issues with any old drivers being around or improperly uninstalled (specifically seems to be the 0.6 set).
+1
So far no issues with my DK2 set. Though the crappy resolution is better than DK1 - I'm enjoying it immensely. A little stuttering from time to time, but that is to be expected. Otherwise, I do like the ability to move things around (comms channel, map) though trying to type into the text buffer is a FPITA - I have to kinda look up and under the edge rim of the Rift.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 02, 2016, 11:08:13 AM
So far no issues with my DK2 set. Though the crappy resolution is better than DK1 - I'm enjoying it immensely. A little stuttering from time to time, but that is to be expected. Otherwise, I do like the ability to move things around (comms channel, map) though trying to type into the text buffer is a FPITA - I have to kinda look up and under the edge rim of the Rift.
No double vision issues with the DK2? Could this be a resolution issue? (the DK2 being different res and maybe aspect ratio than the CV?)
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 02, 2016, 11:24:33 AM
No double vision issues with the DK2? Could this be a resolution issue? (the DK2 being different res and maybe aspect ratio than the CV?)
You and I are the only ones to comment re the cv1? Do you notice any difference in the double vision if you move the ipd button slider from extreme to extreme?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 02, 2016, 11:33:54 AM
I'll take another look Terry but I don't think it makes much if any difference
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Mister Fork on June 02, 2016, 12:04:06 PM
No double vision issues with the DK2? Could this be a resolution issue? (the DK2 being different res and maybe aspect ratio than the CV?)
No double vision issues. Do you have remenints of the older Rift drivers kicking around? I did a complete uninstall of all Oculus drivers first and cleaned out the folders.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 02, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
You and I are the only ones to comment re the cv1? Do you notice any difference in the double vision if you move the ipd button slider from extreme to extreme?
Terry
Btw is everything appearing double? Or only select items like the clip board?
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 02, 2016, 12:40:04 PM
Quote
Btw is everything appearing double? Or only select items like the clip board?
For me it's just things like the clipboard and the aircraft themselves.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 02, 2016, 01:11:46 PM
Btw is everything appearing double? Or only select items like the clip board?
HiTech
Clipboard, mouse, aircraft, text like auto take off enabled, text box, and frame rate text, and like the window frames in the tower. In the tower the desk, clock, phone and radios are all ok.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 02, 2016, 01:37:43 PM
Check the FOV setting in the vidoe config, make sure it is set to automatic.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 02, 2016, 02:49:54 PM
Check the FOV setting in the vidoe config, make sure it is set to automatic.
HiTech
Yes it is set to automatic and is showing 80.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 02, 2016, 05:00:11 PM
Just tried beta 22. Rift still has double vision except that when in the plane and you call the clipboard it is no longer doubled like it is when in the tower. Everything else stays doubled, it is just the clipboard and the cursor while it's on the clipboard that are normal.
When you say no to oculus and yes to htc the Vive can be used but the oculus home starts also. On the Vive no double vision in the tower with clipboard up but if you move cursor outside of clipboard it then doubles. Inside the plane (p51) the gunsite is doubled, cursor is doubled and if you look at left wing it is fuzzy and I think doubled? If clipboard brought up cursor is correct while it is on clipboard and the clipboard is not doubled.
The cursor moves with head movement (unless clipboard up when moves with mouse). I think I like this but would like to be able to turn cursor off as you don't want to look at it al the time. Vive just does not have as good of a screen as the rift.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Mister Fork on June 03, 2016, 09:22:23 AM
I'll check version 22 tonight when I get home.
Terry - what video card are you using?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 03, 2016, 12:10:31 PM
Clipboard, mouse, aircraft, text like auto take off enabled, text box, and frame rate text, and like the window frames in the tower. In the tower the desk, clock, phone and radios are all ok.
Terry
Random thought here: might Windows display scaling--e.g., the font/DPI scaling feature in Windows's display settings--be an issue or cause? No clue, really, but might it be worth testing?
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 03, 2016, 01:58:09 PM
Single 980 here too. Just updated to 22 and still seeing the same double vision issue. Closing one eye works to a degree but the head tracking seems off, it could just be because of the warping/fish eye effect.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 03, 2016, 02:22:07 PM
For those seeing double, go int Options/preferences/gui and move the fixed sphere slider (i notice a bug it does not refresh correctly when going back in the 2nd time but it should save properly)
Move the slider to the right and see if your double vision issue goes away.
--------------------\ If the above fixes you edit the gui.cfg file in the settings folder. right now the reader has a slight bug so it's one line off.
Change the 0,ForcedFixedSphere to the number that shows at the next line of x.xxxx,FixedSphereSize It then should load correctly for you with out having to change it each session.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 03, 2016, 04:44:12 PM
For those seeing double, go int Options/preferences/gui and move the fixed sphere slider (i notice a bug it does not refresh correctly when going back in the 2nd time but it should save properly)
Move the slider to the right and see if your double vision issue goes away.
--------------------\ If the above fixes you edit the gui.cfg file in the settings folder. right now the reader has a slight bug so it's one line off.
Change the 0,ForcedFixedSphere to the number that shows at the next line of x.xxxx,FixedSphereSize It then should load correctly for you with out having to change it each session.
HiTech
HiTech
Sorry to say that did not work. I moved the slider all the way to the right and the images did not get any closer together. I still think it has to do with the ipd. If I look real close and move the button from one extreme to the other the images do seem to get somewhat closer?
Another bug I noticed is that Oculus home starts no matter how you answer the questions.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 03, 2016, 05:19:29 PM
Sorry to say that did not work. I moved the slider all the way to the right and the images did not get any closer together. I still think it has to do with the ipd. If I look real close and move the button from one extreme to the other the images do seem to get somewhat closer?
Another bug I noticed is that Oculus home starts no matter how you answer the questions.
Terry
I have not been able to find a way around that , to detect if it is turned on and pluged in, I need to try to start it .
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on June 03, 2016, 11:25:34 PM
I'm having issues with the mouse on the clipboard. Sometimes the mouse seems to be behind parts of the clipboard. The pointer disappears over the area where the map is. I can select the options at the bottom (e.g. tower, options, o club etc), anything in the area where the map is is problematic, and anything that opens to the left is as well.
The other issue I notice is for headtracking it is 1:1, so checking 6 is giving me whiplash.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 04, 2016, 07:43:57 AM
HiTech
I did some research on ipd with the dk2 and the 1.3 and higher runtime. Every thread said that there was no way to adjust the ipd in the dk2 so maybe the question to ask is how is that the dk2 are working with what I assume is good ipd (no one has complained)?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 04, 2016, 07:48:48 AM
I did some research on ipd with the dk2 and the 1.3 and higher runtime. Every thread said that there was no way to adjust the ipd in the dk2 so maybe the question to ask is how is that the dk2 are working with what I assume is good ipd (no one has complained)?
Terry
You have seen every comment on the vr DK2 with AH that I have.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 04, 2016, 10:54:36 AM
Good news, I'm getting the same double vision on my Vive at home.
Does your double vision go away if you put the clip board away?
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 04, 2016, 12:17:24 PM
Good news, I'm getting the same double vision on my Vive at home.
Does your double vision go away if you put the clip board away?
HiTech
With the Vive
Yes. In the tower I do not have double vision until I move the cursor off the board then the cursor is doubled. If I then put the board away the cursor becomes normal.
In the plane I do not have double except for the gunsight and on the wing as explained below. The clipboard being up or down does not change anything.
When I turn my head to the left or right, as I increase the angle the wing splits into two images and the higher the angle the more the images separate. I didn't notice that before on the right wing because my neck doesn't work as well in that direction. If I look at the wings with just my eye movement with a small turn of my head, it appears to be normal.
As to Vulcan's request to scale the tracking, if you do that please make it user selectable. I kinda like 1to 1 as that's what is realistic. I just do what real pilots do, I sit-up and turn my body.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on June 04, 2016, 02:28:38 PM
We also turn our eyes (which probably gives you an extra 20-30 degrees), which you cannot do with the Vive/Oculus.
True!
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: doright on June 04, 2016, 06:14:51 PM
Trying Rift CV1 for first time in AH3. Can't seem to get it to appear in headset. Running AH3 (beta23) will open Oculus home, but program appears as normal on my flat displays. What I'm I missing? (besides gray matter between visor and headphones).
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: FLS on June 04, 2016, 07:30:11 PM
Are you starting the dx11 version? It's a separate executable. The beta shortcut starts the dx9 version.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on June 04, 2016, 08:36:30 PM
Also make sure you do the headset centering thing in the Oculus main app under settings. I found until I did that AH3 would not render to my Dk2.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 05, 2016, 03:22:55 AM
Wait, what? To the guys using the Vive - are you using the revive injector? I am still hesitant about that since I do not want to install Oculus Home on my system. But if that is what it takes I will try.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 05, 2016, 08:38:57 AM
Wait, what? To the guys using the Vive - are you using the revive injector? I am still hesitant about that since I do not want to install Oculus Home on my system. But if that is what it takes I will try.
I am not using it.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 06, 2016, 10:55:45 AM
Been working on the vive controllers to be mappable in the Joystick mapping system.
I think I like flying with the Vive controller better then a JS, is extremely smooth control.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: FLS on June 06, 2016, 12:50:00 PM
Been working on the vive controllers to be mappable in the Joystick mapping system.
I think I like flying with the Vive controller better then a JS, is extremely smooth control.
HiTech
Sounds like you need a bigger stick. :D
I'm guessing the vive controller let's you move your hand more for the same input. Have you tried fighting with it?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 06, 2016, 02:49:26 PM
HiTech
Any progress on the double vision issue with the cv1 rift? I agree Vive wins with their controllers.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 06, 2016, 02:59:52 PM
Sorry guys, I am kinda lost. How do I get the Vive running in the beta? Scanned through the options didn't find anything to tick. HALP!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 06, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
nvm... figured it out... run the DX11 version - duh!
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 06, 2016, 03:38:26 PM
Wow - amazing - I would have never dreamed I'd be flying AH in a VR HMD. It only took 17 years... :)
Alright. I got the obvious see the cockpit double problem. But the other thing is performance. In the offline arena I hardly reach 40FPS with standard stettings. Any hints on optimal settings with VR? It seems that the cockpit interior eats up a lot of frames. If I go the F3 view everything smoothens out.
My specs: i7-6700k, GTX970, 16GB RAM, Win10
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 06, 2016, 04:13:55 PM
Wow - amazing - I would have never dreamed I'd be flying AH in a VR HMD. It only took 17 years... :)
Alright. I got the obvious see the cockpit double problem. But the other thing is performance. In the offline arena I hardly reach 40FPS with standard stettings. Any hints on optimal settings with VR? It seems that the cockpit interior eats up a lot of frames. If I go the F3 view everything smoothens out.
My specs: i7-6700k, GTX970, 16GB RAM, Win10
Frame rate can be dealt with by using Asynchronous Timewarp. At least it works very well in other sims. With that I can get 90+ fps with p3dv3.
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on June 06, 2016, 04:38:36 PM
Frame rate can be dealt with by using Asynchronous Timewarp. At least it works very well in other sims. With that I can get 90+ fps with p3dv3.
Terry
That should help for Oculus HMDs, but the last I'd read a while back, HTC/Valve hadn't adopted Asynch Time-warp for the Vive. Anyone have more recent info perhaps? (Here's what I read a few months ago--had to find it again):
Update: Did a little more searching. Valve has different solution, apparently: Automatic Interleaved Reprojection. Here is a GDC presentation that talks a bit about it: http://alex.vlachos.com/graphics/Alex_Vlachos_Advanced_VR_Rendering_Performance_GDC2016.pdf (http://alex.vlachos.com/graphics/Alex_Vlachos_Advanced_VR_Rendering_Performance_GDC2016.pdf)
FWIW,
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 07, 2016, 12:15:03 AM
Yup, sadly the Vives reprojection isn't quite as good as Oculus' ATW. Reprojection allows smooth gameplay even below the needed 90 FPS down to 45 FPS. If you drop below 45 the juddering will start.
I am well aware that the beta is just a beta and that VR support is really new. I just want to hear what my fellow mates found ways to improve the performance right now. I will play around with the gfx settings some more.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 07, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
Yup, sadly the Vives reprojection isn't quite as good as Oculus' ATW. Reprojection allows smooth gameplay even below the needed 90 FPS down to 45 FPS. If you drop below 45 the juddering will start.
I am well aware that the beta is just a beta and that VR support is really new. I just want to hear what my fellow mates found ways to improve the performance right now. I will play around with the gfx settings some more.
I agree Vive post render smoothing is not near what oculus is, But I would think that will happen very soon.
But I ah highly impressed with the Vive controllers.
With the 2 controllers all dog fighting functions could be mapped to the 2 controllers, and no need for a JS.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Wraith_TMS on June 07, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
I agree Vive post render smoothing is not near what oculus is, But I would think that will happen very soon.
But I ah highly impressed with the Vive controllers.
With the 2 controllers all dog fighting functions could be mapped to the 2 controllers, and no need for a JS.
HiTech
Wow; those last two paragraphs are a significant evaluation with important (positive) implications. IOW, if you support these types of controllers, you'll attract even more VR enthusiasts, who might otherwise have avoided diving into good air combat games like AH because of the cost of entry posed by additional HOTAS or j/s purchases. Owning those controllers would reduce their overall capital outlay and let them play AH as well as any other type of controller-tracked game.
I wonder how the VIVE controllers would stack up against Oculus' Touch controllers (coming later this year) in use with AH? Anecdotally, they're both said to be high-quality gear: https://www.oculus.com/en-us/touch/ (https://www.oculus.com/en-us/touch/)
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on June 07, 2016, 04:08:30 PM
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Have you been playing sitting down with the Vive, or standing up? I ask because of the way the Vive integrates the various cams/sensors around a room, wondering if in the future in planes like large bombers, if we could walk to various gunner/bomber/nav stations and such. The first thing I thought of when I tried the Vive and the controllers were how awesome they would be in gunner/manned gun/tank stations...
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Pongo on June 07, 2016, 06:18:55 PM
Wraith made a very good point, if the vr cost includes a controller option that competes with a hotas that is a huge plus, you will have to come up with a bundle deal with the vr vendors. HT.
I think I would still want rudder pedals though.
Have any of you Gtx 1080d this thing yet?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Vulcan on June 07, 2016, 06:20:54 PM
I have Razor Hydras (similar to the Vive controllers) - I don't think it'd use them over a HOTAS arrangement.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 08, 2016, 12:30:04 AM
HT - I am really curious how you'd map the Vive controllers to AH controls. Cannot imagine it atm. But I agree the precision and responsivness is truly impressive. You can literally juggle the controllers in mid-air - no lag whatsoever.
Pongo - I only read reports of the 1080/Vive combo on the DCS forums which are not as fantastic as the NVIDIA anouncement sounded. Most of that has probably to do with DCS being very CPU dependent. And that the gameworks API is not supported which means they do not take advantage of the VR specific optimizations. AFAIK only one VR game actually does atm. I do not know how likely AH is to support gameworks but it would sure boost the VR performance by a good margin. Anyway, I got a 1080 on the way - expecting it to land in 2-3 weeks probably.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 08, 2016, 09:25:23 AM
HT - I am really curious how you'd map the Vive controllers to AH controls. Cannot imagine it atm. But I agree the precision and responsivness is truly impressive. You can literally juggle the controllers in mid-air - no lag whatsoever.
Pongo - I only read reports of the 1080/Vive combo on the DCS forums which are not as fantastic as the NVIDIA anouncement sounded. Most of that has probably to do with DCS being very CPU dependent. And that the gameworks API is not supported which means they do not take advantage of the VR specific optimizations. AFAIK only one VR game actually does atm. I do not know how likely AH is to support gameworks but it would sure boost the VR performance by a good margin. Anyway, I got a 1080 on the way - expecting it to land in 2-3 weeks probably.
First what I have been working on the last 2 days is the code that makes the controller look like a Joy Stick to AH. Hence all functions are mappable threw the normal ah mapping.
You set the max range of motion for yaw,pitch and roll of the controller in the new VR setup dialog. When you touch the pad the controller control becomes active. You can select either when you touch or to double touch to center the controller. Then simply the roll pitch yaw of the controller maps to ailerons, elevator and rudder.
So it also creates perfect ergonomic setup simply with your arms resting on your chair.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Pongo on June 08, 2016, 04:32:35 PM
lol I was visualizing it held between the legs and moving it like you would move a joy stick.
Kirin, most interested in the single pass multi view projection of the 1000 series cards. Have to be programmed for of course so would not show up any advantage in any game in existence yet.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Gman on June 09, 2016, 07:54:07 PM
The Mrs found a used Rift (missing the Eve code, but I don't care) in Calgary for about the same cost as retail, so I'll have it next week. I do have a number of 1080 cards in different machines, will post more details about how beta works with them in the hardware forum, but so far, running 1080 SLI in beta flying from the fields I usually use there, 143/144 fps locked pretty much constantly from tower to take off to flight. Not much difference between one card or SLI either, yet at least, I'm still messing with the "do it yourself" profile with nVidia inspector. Once the Rift gets here, I'll post more on how VR works with the 1080 (not sli as it doesn't work with VR yet I think).
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Chilli on June 10, 2016, 02:56:39 AM
GMan,
Test framerates low over enemy large airfield and report please...
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: terrydew on June 11, 2016, 07:48:06 AM
HiTech
Is there going to be a way to adjust head position? Wil there be any "world scale" adjustment. My goal would be to have the VR view life size?
Terry
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 11, 2016, 08:41:55 AM
Is there going to be a way to adjust head position? Wil there be any "world scale" adjustment. My goal would be to have the VR view life size?
Terry
Yes ill add scaling. I also need to implement the zoom scaling to slow it down when zoomed in.
Also I want to add a slightly different view. Right now if you are looking forward and press the left view. The view keys work just like you didn't have a tracking device on. I want to change this so if you press left, the head tracker would then still be active but until you released the left view key, forward for the head tracker would be left.
This way I don't believe most people would use the scale , but would simply look back and then move your head from there.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Pongo on June 11, 2016, 06:03:49 PM
The Mrs found a used Rift (missing the Eve code, but I don't care) in Calgary for about the same cost as retail, so I'll have it next week. I do have a number of 1080 cards in different machines, will post more details about how beta works with them in the hardware forum, but so far, running 1080 SLI in beta flying from the fields I usually use there, 143/144 fps locked pretty much constantly from tower to take off to flight. Not much difference between one card or SLI either, yet at least, I'm still messing with the "do it yourself" profile with nVidia inspector. Once the Rift gets here, I'll post more on how VR works with the 1080 (not sli as it doesn't work with VR yet I think).
The main change in the 1000 series needs dev work to implement I would assume, Not sure the drivers for the VR hardware even support it yet.. Not that I would know.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 12, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
Amazing - had my first sortie online in the Vive today. Had turn down details and disable shadows to get a smooth framerate. Without shadows it stay well above 45 all the time. Double vision is fixed. Follwing things I noticed:
- enemy icons are only shown near the edge of the viewpoint - when you turn onto them the icon disappears (tested only in the offline arena since I didn't meet any flying enemy online) - yaw "ball" is missing - in flight mouse will clip behind the clipboard - when you move your head to the edge of the cockpit it will start to move with the head, e.g. if I lean beyond the edge of the right window the cockpit seems to move right when moving further
Fantastic experience never the less. Strafing groundtargets is hard tho... :)
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 12, 2016, 02:14:29 PM
Amazing - had my first sortie online in the Vive today. Had turn down details and disable shadows to get a smooth framerate. Without shadows it stay well above 45 all the time. Double vision is fixed. Follwing things I noticed:
- enemy icons are only shown near the edge of the viewpoint - when you turn onto them the icon disappears (tested only in the offline arena since I didn't meet any flying enemy online) - yaw "ball" is missing - in flight mouse will clip behind the clipboard - when you move your head to the edge of the cockpit it will start to move with the head, e.g. if I lean beyond the edge of the right window the cockpit seems to move right when moving further
Fantastic experience never the less. Strafing groundtargets is hard tho... :)
Also try mapping your Vive controller to roll pitch and yaw for flight please.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 12, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
Done! Works very well - technically. The tracking is butter smooth. I was able to take off and land without a problem. The idea that the axis is only active while touch the touchpad is ingenious. Took me a while to figure that out - maybe I just didn't read the manual... :)
So it does work. But I would never switch from my HOTAS. But it makes it possible to fly AH without a joystick in VR.
It would be cool if you would render the controllers. Maybe as controllers, maybe as hands, or a plane on a stick. It would also make finding the controllers easier... :)
Cheers
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 12, 2016, 03:01:38 PM
It would be cool if you would render the controllers. Maybe as controllers, maybe as hands, or a plane on a stick. It would also make finding the controllers easier... :)
Cheers
All ready done, working on the ability to simply touch the items on the clip board with your index finger.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: FLS on June 12, 2016, 03:50:34 PM
Will there be an option for a HUD graphic that shows the stick and pedal positions that's also saved to film? Will films play in VR?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: JimmyC on June 13, 2016, 12:48:03 AM
I know I will be slayed, burnt and flayed here... but any way this is going to work on Samsung/Oculus GearVR..? would be so sweet :pray
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 13, 2016, 01:56:26 AM
Just tried AH in VR without double vision and it's looking good thanks!
Quote
I know I will be slayed, burnt and flayed here... but any way this is going to work on Samsung/Oculus GearVR..? would be so sweet :pray
AH is a PC game, I don't think it would ever run on a mobile phone?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: JimmyC on June 13, 2016, 04:41:31 AM
I wondered if it was possible .. Like hook the pc up to the phone..WiFi.. Probably not for awhile aye..to leggy etc.. Just got a gear rv..so was just hoping..don't know shiz about this VR...BUT it's quiet exciting.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Kirin on June 13, 2016, 07:44:08 AM
I don't know if you can do it in AH. But some people run DCS on Google Cardboard. If you google it you will find.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 14, 2016, 12:22:07 PM
HiTech for the Vive, are you using SteamVR?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on June 14, 2016, 01:19:58 PM
I'm using openvr, I was assuming it is the api end of steamvr. If not how is it different.
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on June 24, 2016, 10:00:45 AM
Just updated to the latest beta and I'm seeing a distinct stutter or pause every 1-2 seconds in the rift. Is anyone else experiencing this?
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on July 24, 2016, 05:56:51 PM
I've been flying the current beta in VR this weekend and it's fantastic.
Feedback on a couple of issues:
There is an issue with 3D clouds which spin or rotate as I move my head.
Black out due to injured pilot: This is VERY disorientating in VR to the point of nausea. Whilst I'm sure disorientation is realistic it's likely to cause nausea for folk not used to VR because the pilot's head movement suddenly gets detached from the players own movement. I actually quite like the effect but I'm not sure it's 'best practice' for VR.
Bruce
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: FLS on July 24, 2016, 10:29:05 PM
Just updated to the latest beta and I'm seeing a distinct stutter or pause every 1-2 seconds in the rift. Is anyone else experiencing this?
Are you using an Inateck usb3 card? I was hearing the usb reconnect every fews seconds along with a stutter in the game. I unplugged the rift headset from the inateck usb3 card that oculus recommends and plugged it into the onboard usb3 that oculus says is no good. The stutter and usb reconnect went away. The sensor is still plugged into the inateck card.
There is still some stutter on the CV deck but I think that's a different issue. The rift does a nice job with frame spacing, even 30 fps looks smooth. With default settings and AA off I usually get 90 fps and it's very smooth.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on July 25, 2016, 02:14:58 AM
Sorry, should have fed back, my issue was indeed a sensor connection problem since solved.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on July 26, 2016, 05:21:33 AM
Just a thought. Would it be possible to adjust the eyepoint (back/forward/left/right/up/down) with key bindings? I think this could be beneficial in VR and to regular users.
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: hitech on July 26, 2016, 08:57:58 AM
Just a thought. Would it be possible to adjust the eyepoint (back/forward/left/right/up/down) with key bindings? I think this could be beneficial in VR and to regular users.
Do you mean the home view point? I assume you also know about Ctrl F4?
HiTech
Title: Re: Oculus Rift use...
Post by: brucec on July 26, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
I mean to change where the default view point is, like adjust it as if you were moving the seat in your car (or 'plane!)
I just ran into another minor issue. In the hangar view on the CV (in VR) the clipboard hangar is zoomed close in and I can't move it.