Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Drano on April 09, 2016, 07:13:56 PM
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Been a lot of discussion in other threads regarding bailing and/or the abuse of bailing over especially the last bunch of frames. I can't get my head wrapped around why anyone would do it in the first place so I thought I'd start a different conversation.
So why do you bail?
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With me it is about surviving vs dying.
That is all, I exit after I hit the ground.
I have sat there and watch a fight though <----- Guilty
Promise to not do it again :t
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With me it is about surviving vs dying.
That is all, I exit after I hit the ground.
I have sat there and watch a fight though <----- Guilty
Promise to not do it again :t
Same here. Most times I .ef before the chute even opens. Less chance of dying that way.
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But guys. As far as FSO is concerned... You didn't survive. Your plane and you don't have separate scoring. If your plane didn't make it down safe before end of frame... You died.
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Scoring? What the :headscratch: is that?
A DEATH in the logs is a DEATH a bail is alive and ditch is alive. As an AXIS player, if you get shot down over home you could be back into a plane for an afternoon sortie...
I know, not a game thing, just in my own mind.
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Scoring? What the :headscratch: is that?
A DEATH in the logs is a DEATH a bail is alive and ditch is alive.
See right here is where the confusion is. You and your plane are one an the same in FSO. YOU don't "live" unless you bring that plane back to a runway before the end of the frame. Period. Anything else.... You're dead.
I know it goes in the logs as you bravely bailed, and that's all good.... But in FSO you're just as dead as if you blew right up.
And I could give a hoot about score in the regular game. But in FSO, score actually means something but instead of an individual thing it's a team thing.
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There are FSO squads that tally stats on their pilots and it would not surprise me that some differentiate between a death and a bail. Pilots bailing out of planes was a part of WW2. Its an immersive factor. We don't need skins but we have them. Bailing out might not alter "score" but some guys want to bail out rather than be "killed" even in a simulation.
HTC added it as a feature so somebody must have wanted it.
...and we cannot disable the feature.
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Squire you continually strike me as not very sharp. Have at it big guy! Lol
The skins comparison killed ya.
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Something for strictly aesthetic and/or immersive purposes.
...maybe start another thread on that.
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At last check you are the head CM for FSO right? Have you somehow not noticed that this is becoming a problem, especially in recent frames? It hasn't gone unnoticed with me that there's a little lag with you.
Immersion or not, a few of these reality darlings are running around and griefing YOUR events. The participants are complaining and here you are essentially green lighting this behavior in the name of immersion. That's just brilliant leadership! What will you do when someone upsets a whole frame because of your inaction? You're not gonna say you'll handle it because you're not handling it now!
The bailing "feature" isn't new, it goes back to AW. I am fully aware it can't be turned off, but a rule against it might tend to make the practice prohibitive. All of the rules came from somewhere. You ever been on a command staff of a scenario? The rules there can get to 20 pages! Those rules are hard. These rules are easy. One more easier rule that fits on the same page as all the other rules is no biggie.
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With me it is about surviving vs dying.
That is all, I exit after I hit the ground.
I have sat there and watch a fight though <----- Guilty
Promise to not do it again :t
I'm the same way. I don't consider the scoring when I bail out of the plane. I try to survive every engagement I'm in. I don't take the attitude that every time I get in a plane that it's a suicide mission. I will put myself at risk for a mission and other pilots, but it's a personal choice that if given the option to bail vs hitting the ground, I will choose life over death. It's my thing. :salute
I follow the rules when I bail or ditch and go to the tower. If other people break that rule the Admin. should do whatever is necessary in regards to penalties. That is what is expected from our leaders and this should be communicated to squad leaders and by the squad leaders to their squads.
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drano, if you don't bail out of a bomber, you risk losing all three. that makes bailing almost a necessity! it would be ridiculas to lose 3 bombers if you couldn't bail. everyone would just concentrate on the lead bomber, and lo and behold, you get 3 kills out of the deal! bombers are 10 points each, not 10 points per formation. so that's 30 points that just got lost. hangers are only worth 25
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I will bail and .ef as soon as I deploy my chute.
Most of the time, I don't get a chance and get killed.
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drano, if you don't bail out of a bomber, you risk losing all three. that makes bailing almost a necessity! it would be ridiculas to lose 3 bombers if you couldn't bail. everyone would just concentrate on the lead bomber, and lo and behold, you get 3 kills out of the deal! bombers are 10 points each, not 10 points per formation. so that's 30 points that just got lost. hangers are only worth 25
I've stipulated to the bomber thing. I know how it works. Keep up. I'm not talking about a physical disabling of bailing. I'm proposing a rule prohibiting it in FSO --except for bombers. That would be easy enough to determine as the logs parse it out. Of course, that wouldn't stop bomber guys from pulling the same stunt as I bore witness to that a frame or two ago.
This is becoming a regular "thing". Like every frame the last few frames at least. Maybe it's just a couple of maroons doing it. Maybe it's the same ones, I dunno. Clearly whatever is being done about it isn't having an impact or else this wouldn't be an issue.
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heres a thought. rather then force the issue, lets just let it go and let the CM's deal with it. nothing you or I can say will change anything. so rather then a long drawn out discussion that accomplishes nothing, lets just let them deal with it. if they decide they want our input, hopefully, they'll ask for it.
<S>
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I bail out of habit from play in the main arenas. For scenarios and FSO I will never hang in a chute. If I see a chute or what we Pigs call a "snack" I will kill it.
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I bail because after .. what, 14 years of FSO, it's become a habit. At one point, way back when, a bail did count differently. When that changed, I don't know, and it hasn't been important enough for me to bother to change my ways. Normally I get killed outright, so it's not an issue.
I have been on squads that kept bail scores different from killed/ditched, no matter what the FSO scores did. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The rules say don't do what's being done. Yes, there have been a rash of transgressions.. and these things go in cycles. For awhile there were weeks where orders weren't getting out because the assigned CiC's didn't know they were assigned, or when large clumps of forces were assigned to hit targets sequentially, or altitude caps being broken, or escorts attacking opposing strike groups.. the list goes on.
Point is, the rules are there, and it's up to the players to adhere to them.
Adding code to the system to prevent people from breaking the rules is not addressing the real problem, just putting up another roadblock to fixing what's broken.
This will be hot for a little while ( if it's not already starting to cool down ) then some other infraction will bunch up a new set of panties.
Leave it alone and just beat on the transgressors.
</$.02>
:old:
:salute
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I just wanted to verify that this is very true. He dies really fast most of the time. :aok
Most of the time, I don't get a chance and get killed.
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I just wanted to verify that this is very true. He dies really fast most of the time. :aok
:D
I have been on squads that kept bail scores different from killed/ditched, no matter what the FSO scores did. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The 412th records all types of ended flight, but lumps them together as a loss unless you land successfully.
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:D
The 412th records all types of ended flight, but lumps them together as a loss unless you land successfully.
And all we REALLY care about is stealing as many of Joker's kills as possible!
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Personally, I think the only way to really make that happen would be to not show "captured" and "bail" in the score system and just show it as "landed" or "death". Really and truly even if you do it by habbit you can .EF out right away. I always try to ditch my plane. In this last FSO, I was able to ditch my plane, I still got captured in enemy territory so it counted as a capture anyway, which means a death. Any way you look at it, the scoring is what it is. Should I have been able to score my sortie as a ditch for not technically dying? I don't think there is anyway you can really change it.
The other thing is to immediately contact the Host of the FSO if a player is abusing the rules. They can provide solutions for all the players involved. That's probably the best action to take.
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And all we REALLY care about is stealing as many of Joker's kills as possible!
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This is all true. :D
To the CM's, when you send out the objectives for this scenario and possibly next, highlight this issue and demand that each squad leader explain the situation and that the penalty should/ will be harsh. It needs to be brought up by them when they issue their orders. And you might also want to highlight it just before flight time for the next few weeks. No one is above the rules already in place. Let's try to keep this event wholesome and fun and communicate with each other in a respectful manner. :salute
That being said, let's kill some Nazis! :airplane: :neener:
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Yep Bannor, that's a great idea cause I think some folks don't read the rules or the forum and don't even know it's an issue.
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And all we REALLY care about is stealing as many of Joker's kills as possible!
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Its really out of hand!!! I want the CM's to award me all the kills my squadmates have stolen. That's the only solution to my problem.
I really do love FSO but the CM team has been remiss in their duties. Lately, not only have my squadmates been stealing my kills but I have noticed that other squads have also performed some pilfering of kills that are rightfully mine.
I know many of you can see the pain this is causing me. A simple rule change could ensure that only I will get credit for any enemy that gets shot down within say 600...... no 6000 yards of me:)
I want to thank Drano for bringing this abhorrent behavior to light and the CM' s in advance for a swift rule change to address this obvious oversight on their part when composing the rules. :x :x
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Its really out of hand!!! I want the CM's to award me all the kills my squadmates have stolen. That's the only solution to my problem.
I really do love FSO but the CM team has been remiss in their duties. Lately, not only have my squadmates been stealing my kills but I have noticed that other squads have also performed some pilfering of kills that are rightfully mine.
I know many of you can see the pain this is causing me. A simple rule change could ensure that only I will get credit for any enemy that gets shot down within say 600...... no 6000 yards of me:)
I want to thank Drano for bringing this abhorrent behavior to light and the CM' s in advance for a swift rule change to address this obvious oversight on their part when composing the rules. :x :x
LOL. I'll try to think what kind of punishment can be doled out. :rofl
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Nice wrap up! :aok :cheers:
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Not a long standing FSO pilot, but without realizing it, i too have bailed out of a broken plane. I never gave it much thought about "spying" in my chute with my magic country wide radio...
For me it was just a simulation thing, I know now that in FSO a plane and pilot are the same thing for scoring puroposes. But for me personally, i want that pilot to LIVE! So I opt to bail out.
I can respect the complaints against actions which contradict the "spirit of the game". Is it possible for HTC to provide some options to pilots in parachutes? example, whilst in a chute, players text & voice is limited to range only?
With the new build in the works, are flexible options available for CMs to set (i'm thinking like arena settings).. Just spit balling on this one as I do enjoy FSO and any other "events" outside of main arenas.
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127mph updraft, then the parachute will never land! now we can shoot him dead!! or a 127mph downdraft, so he slams into the ground!!
in case you're wondering, this is sarcasm, its not possible to do either!
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Not a long standing FSO pilot, but without realizing it, i too have bailed out of a broken plane. I never gave it much thought about "spying" in my chute with my magic country wide radio...
For me it was just a simulation thing, I know now that in FSO a plane and pilot are the same thing for scoring puroposes. But for me personally, i want that pilot to LIVE! So I opt to bail out.
I can respect the complaints against actions which contradict the "spirit of the game". Is it possible for HTC to provide some options to pilots in parachutes? example, whilst in a chute, players text & voice is limited to range only?
With the new build in the works, are flexible options available for CMs to set (i'm thinking like arena settings).. Just spit balling on this one as I do enjoy FSO and any other "events" outside of main arenas.
The problem would still be there for check 6's and drawing ack fire and rouge pilots with .45's. I think that the CM is taking control of the situation now and if Co's of each squad communicate this to their own squads about unacceptable behavior then I think this will be nipped. The offending pilot in this case was suspended for the rest of the month. I think this was appropriate and should send a message. :salute
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Both me and my squad are guilty of bailing in the FSO but I, and therefore Duxford were unaware that you died when your plane did. After all it say's "you bravely bailed" and no one until now has or had said anything about it that I can remember. I shall correct this with Duxford Wing RAF, however as for myself, if my planes hurt I bail and it's not for the points, it just cause that's what you would really do.
There is however the problem in all the arenas of people bailing from perfectly serviceable aircraft for what ever the reason, I've heard players say, "no more bombs", it took an hour to get to the target and they didn't want to spend the time to fly back", "somebody's going to shoot his perk ride so he pulls the plug", and so on.
There will always be people who play around the rules and without imposing rules upon rules upon rules, there is not much you can do about it.
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Both me and my squad are guilty of bailing in the FSO but I, and therefore Duxford were unaware that you died when your plane did. After all it say's "you bravely bailed" and no one until now has or had said anything about it that I can remember. I shall correct this with Duxford Wing RAF, however as for myself, if my planes hurt I bail and it's not for the points, it just cause that's what you would really do.
I have always bailed from an aircraft which is no longer airworthy. Call it a force of habit, looking for a sense of realism, whatever... however, I have always followed what I believe the intent of the rule to be "Pilots are expected to do their "fighting" from the AC or GV's that they have been assigned to by their CiC. "Once you have been shot down you should be heading to your tower." Usually accomplished with a quick .EF in the text buffer during free fall. This prevents me from drawing ack fire over a base (a rules violation) and prevents me from taking potshots at anyone with my .45 out of frustration (also a rules violation) "Shooting at the enemy with your .45 or drawing anti-aircraft fire with your pilot is not allowed. You may be suspended for doing so."
I would also .EF immediately so other pilots would not tell me to Check-6 inadvertently or ask me to clear their six in a bad situation. However, it seems that may be an error on my part in favor of an floating AWACS platform (at least until I hit the ground) as long as I'm not in the ack and can keep my finger off the trigger. :noid
There is however the problem in all the arenas of people bailing from perfectly serviceable aircraft for what ever the reason, I've heard players say, "no more bombs", it took an hour to get to the target and they didn't want to spend the time to fly back", "somebody's going to shoot his perk ride so he pulls the plug", and so on.
There will always be people who play around the rules and without imposing rules upon rules upon rules, there is not much you can do about it.
MA vs FSO... no comparison other than one is practice for the other IMHO :rock
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i bail so I can land next to this:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/26/20/30996A3800000578-3417470-Officials_say_a_GoPro_camera_showed_the_moment_Connell_pictured_-a-35_1453840603226.jpg)
But mostly I do this:
(http://also.kottke.org/misc/images/gopro-1960s-parachute.jpg)
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Drano for this fso I will follow Joker1 and since I know he only uses 20's I will take my 37's and blow them up right in front of him, LOL
salute
ab8aac/dmdchief
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I'm with captain1ma.. I'd jump out of a perfectly good airplane that was holding me up too..
Flamers beware, You are Sickening and not needed here. You are on record! If you can't enjoy FSO for the spirit of the event, it's enthusiasum that it gives the other participants, or just enjoying enerybody flyin together..then take your flaming rhetoric and leave us alone.. IMHO.
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Drano for this fso I will follow Joker1 and since I know he only uses 20's I will take my 37's and blow them up right in front of him, LOL
salute
ab8aac/dmdchief
I tried hard but couldn't get a clear shot he he he he used all those 37's up going right by him, LOL