Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mutha on September 24, 2016, 12:09:16 PM
-
In another thread, HiTech mentioned a change in WEP behavior as a fix to a global bug.
In AH2, WEP was fully restored at rearm. Specifically in the P-51, the engine "cooled down" to make WEP available.
Can anyone explain how WEP is depleted and restored during rearm in AH3?
Thanks!
Mutha
-
Now that I hear this I'd like to know too. Last night in FSO I ran out of WEP in a fight and later on I ended up being killed (mainly because I suck) but also because I couldn't re-engage WEP to try and run away, despite about 20 minutes or so passing between WEP loss and attempted re-engagement.
-
In AH2, WEP was fully restored at rearm.
No, it never was. Rearming had no impact on WEP at all. WEP recharge was always strictly time based. Rearming or just shutting down the engine did not help to recharge WEP faster.
-
[...] but also because I couldn't re-engage WEP to try and run away, despite about 20 minutes or so passing between WEP loss and attempted re-engagement.
Possibly you had a plane with only a single WEP cycle now?
Planes with consumables should only have 1, unless a shorter duty cycle was defined in the manual. All other planes I would have to look.
I'd say it's quite unfortunate that such a fundamental change was never properly communicated to us.
-
No, it never was. Rearming had no impact on WEP at all. WEP recharge was always strictly time based. Rearming or just shutting down the engine did not help to recharge WEP faster.
I stand corrected - thanks for clarification.
Last night, I found if I eased back on the throttle, I could bring the temp down in my Pony. This is as with AH2.
However, post rearm, the WEP seems to last for much shorter period.
It makes throttle control more critical, and the game more interesting. I'd just like to understand how it works!
-Mutha
-
No, it never was. Rearming had no impact on WEP at all. WEP recharge was always strictly time based. Rearming or just shutting down the engine did not help to recharge WEP faster.
lusche is right- the only way to built wep is sit on a runway for a time--or fly around for a time not using wep to let it recharge...or tower and reup a new plane :airplane:
-
The ONLY flight model change (THAT INCLUDES ENGINES) in anything was the web bug fix. I.E. there was not supposed to be infinite # of wep cycles on all planes.
HiTech
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
That is good not having infinite WEP cycles on all planes -- much more realistic. Planes that used up stuff (water, methanol, nitrous) in WEP should not get more once the stores run out.
-
So, if WEP is now a consumable on some planes, does that mean that it is restored when you rearm?
:salute
Sik
-
Squaddie rearmed earlier and didn't get his wep back...
I wish we could be provided with a wep chart for each plane...
-
So, if WEP is now a consumable on some planes, does that mean that it is restored when you rearm?
:salute
Sik
It should be.
Squaddie rearmed earlier and didn't get his wep back...
Lame.
-
Squaddie rearmed earlier and didn't get his wep back...
In what plane?
-
HiTech explained that once you have depleted your wep cycle you no longer have wep. Best is to cycle on and off and use when needed. Once it's gone it's gone in the aircraft you are flying.
-
I noticed after rearming that I did not have wep
-
So outside the consumable WEPs (Water injection, methanol water injection etc), WEP is nothing more than a higher boost setting. Higher boost setting meant you built engine temp up faster, and THAT was the limiting factor. It didn't automatically cut off, you could blow your engine up if you kept it boosted...but if the difference was sucking on the end of a 20mm cannon or maybe melting a cylinder....guess what most chose.
So essentially, cooling off the engine should allow for WEP again. The other part of this equation is the fuel flow needs to go up with WEP as well....(excepting the injectables where the water actually displaces the gas, and they use LESS fuel then at Mil power).
-
The planes I've played with offline (A-20, Bf 109G-2, FW 190A-5) all have wep that can be used again after engine cools off.
-
The B25 has a reusable WEP as well IIRC. I just didn't know a change had been made to where some planes have a limited WEP. I mean it makes sense if they're burning extra water and fuel that once it's gone that's it.
What I would love is a list of planes that have reusable WEP, a list with limited cycle, and what the times are on it.
-
What I would love is a list of planes that have reusable WEP, a list with limited cycle, and what the times are on it.
Made a request on wishlist.
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
For those aircraft whose WEP use was limited by operating instructions/temperatures, you *could* remove the WEP time limitation and instead simulate failure due to high temps, etc. This would have two drawbacks, however.
1 - you would have to initiate some random failure mechanism to simulate this. Engines weren't guaranteed to fail after exceeding their listed limitations for 10 seconds...
2 - the restrictions on cylinder temps, etc., weren't only or even primarily about preventing immediate failure, but also about engine lifetime, etc. Using WEP too much today (or today, yesterday, and last Tuesday) might instead result in poorer engine performance tomorrow, or even engine failure while in cruise next Wednesday. This cannot really be simulated, especially since a most simulated aircraft don't actually manage to last even 5 hours in the air before being destroyed in the main arena (even the 262's famously short lived engines aren't a factor in this). As a result you would likely have to lump the consequences back into the failure rate in #1, resulting in an unrealistically high chance of immediate failure - after all, since WE don't have to make it home or risk death or long term imprisonment, a small or even moderate chance of engine failure to get just one more kill wouldn't be much of a deterrent.
This points out one of the major differences between a simulator and actual combat - operational constraints (manpower, maintenance and supply requirements, etc) are almost entirely absent.
Mike
-
IMHO if we shut off our engine during re-arm the WEP should get recharged.
-
For those aircraft whose WEP use was limited by operating instructions/temperatures, you *could* remove the WEP time limitation and instead simulate failure due to high temps, etc. This would have two drawbacks, however.
The Merlin 66 was placed on a stand and run at what we would call WEP for 200 hours. The only damage was micro fractures in some of the bearing races. An R2800 was run at WEP for 8 hours, spark plugs changed and placed into a P47 used in extensive testing for the rest of the 110hour life of that engine. Military engines are expected to run like this because combat will probably require it. Engine running restrictions were there mostly to help get 100 or so hours out of it before it had to be replaced.
If running engines on WEP past the 5-7 minute warning from the manual destroyed engines, WW2 in the air would have been far more dangerous for pilots from their engine than the enemy guns.
-
In another thread, HiTech mentioned a change in WEP behavior as a fix to a global bug.
In AH2, WEP was fully restored at rearm. Specifically in the P-51, the engine "cooled down" to make WEP available.
Can anyone explain how WEP is depleted and restored during rearm in AH3?
Thanks!
Mutha
Can you point me to that thread please? I need to quote it but can't find it via search for some reason.
-
Certain planes will recharge WEP, certain ones wont.
Some also recharge faster than others.
Some last longer than others.
There was a chart somewhere. I will look for it after work if its not posted already.
-
Thanks.
I have searched all over for Hitech's explanation. It isn't coming up in my searches.
He said that infinite recharging was an error in AH2 that was "fixed" in AH3. Still not a fan of what he did to the Pony. Oh well.
-
Thanks.
I have searched all over for Hitech's explanation. It isn't coming up in my searches.
He said that infinite recharging was an error in AH2 that was "fixed" in AH3. Still not a fan of what he did to the Pony. Oh well.
There are two separate quotes from hitech in the first page of this thread. Read through it, click on the hyperlink where it says the quote is from hitech, and it'll bring you to the thread.
-
AH wiki posts wep times and recharge times,what it doesnt have is total time limitations! I would like to see the time limitations put up on the wiki.
:salute
-
What would be good is what Puller said. Post a sheet where we can see the time that each planes have. i.e Spit9-5 minutes, p-47d-11- 7 minutes......so on so forth.....I think it would be helper so players would know and average the time they will be out of WEP so they can turn it off and recharge it...
-
What would be good is what Puller said. Post a sheet where we can see the time that each planes have. i.e Spit9-5 minutes, p-47d-11- 7 minutes......so on so forth.....I think it would be helper so players would know and average the time they will be out of WEP so they can turn it off and recharge it...
Better yet....add it to the hanger info when you select load out.
Other sim we implemented a WEP "damage" feature...where you could push past the "temp" limit and induce engine damage (loss of thrust was easiest way to implement it). It was a variable thrust loss, so could be just a little damage or a good bit. If you kept heating the engine up with WEP on...it would add to the damage. Engine "knocking" noise was implemented to let you know you had damaged the engine....
Was a nice "feature", but took some getting used to as guys would push it too far...and end up limping home.
But if your choice was to die to bullets, or damage the engine....it was the engine everytime:)
Dobs
-
There are two separate quotes from hitech in the first page of this thread. Read through it, click on the hyperlink where it says the quote is from hitech, and it'll bring you to the thread.
Found it. Thanks for the heads up.
Why didn't it show when I searched for it?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,381703.msg5082736.html#msg5082736
-
Why didn't it show when I searched for it?
Prolly user error. I searched for wep cycle by hitech within the past 100 days and it pulled up the thread.
-
Did HTC give out the original figures for the first list the Trainers have or, did they have to test every plane in the game with a stop watch? Now that Hitech fixed WEP, it would be nice if he gave us a definitive data sheet to quell all of this confusion.
-
Did HTC give out the original figures for the first list the Trainers have or, did they have to test every plane in the game with a stop watch? Now that Hitech fixed WEP, it would be nice if he gave us a definitive data sheet to quell all of this confusion.
And it would be nice to put the hammer down on planes with renewable weps in that if you don't watch your gauges then a high temp failure would occur. Kind of a check and balance to planes with wep limited times.
-
Prolly user error. I searched for wep cycle by hitech within the past 100 days and it pulled up the thread.
"WEP Hitech" doesn't show it
I looked at all his posts. Never saw it.
-
Did HTC give out the original figures for the first list the Trainers have or, did they have to test every plane in the game with a stop watch? Now that Hitech fixed WEP, it would be nice if he gave us a definitive data sheet to quell all of this confusion.
+1 need to know wep cycles on all planes :aok
-
"WEP Hitech" doesn't show it
I looked at all his posts. Never saw it.
Were you using advanced search? Im having no problems finding the post.
-
Were you using advanced search? Im having no problems finding the post.
Let me try that. I only used basic.
Thanks for the pointer.
-
I did a test in TA last night in the FW190A5,it gave me 2 times 10 mins of wep. I had to cool engine for 20 mins to get the second 10 mins of wep, just as the wiki says! After that I cooled the engine for another full 20 mins and I couldnt get wep no matter what,all that happened was the temp went to max temp when wep cuts out.
So I landed and rearmed,shut down engne and let it cool to 40 C,well below operating temps and then started up and tried to engage wep,all it did was increase temp again. flew around for another 10 to 20 mins trying to engage wep to no avail!
Now I havent tested any others but I suspect I will find the same,except for the lengths of time. Unless you do multiple rearms I dont think it will make much difference as most planes dont have the flight time to do more than 1 or 2 recharge times!
YMMV!
:salute
-
I did a test in TA last night in the FW190A5,it gave me 2 times 10 mins of wep. I had to cool engine for 20 mins to get the second 10 mins of wep, just as the wiki says! After that I cooled the engine for another full 20 mins and I couldnt get wep no matter what,all that happened was the temp went to max temp when wep cuts out.
So I landed and rearmed,shut down engne and let it cool to 40 C,well below operating temps and then started up and tried to engage wep,all it did was increase temp again. flew around for another 10 to 20 mins trying to engage wep to no avail!
Now I havent tested any others but I suspect I will find the same,except for the lengths of time. Unless you do multiple rearms I dont think it will make much difference as most planes dont have the flight time to do more than 1 or 2 recharge times!
YMMV!
:salute
If wep is indeed now a consumable then it should fully regain usage time with a rearm.
-
P47 stats and info. Great read.
P47 had a 30gal. water tank for water injection. I guess when that was gone so might the wep. Introduced on the C model.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=76
I have a pilots manual for the B,C,D and G models. As far as I looked I saw no info on WEP mentioned.
-
I did a test in TA last night in the FW190A5,it gave me 2 times 10 mins of wep. I had to cool engine for 20 mins to get the second 10 mins of wep, just as the wiki says! After that I cooled the engine for another full 20 mins and I couldnt get wep no matter what,all that happened was the temp went to max temp when wep cuts out.
So I landed and rearmed,shut down engne and let it cool to 40 C,well below operating temps and then started up and tried to engage wep,all it did was increase temp again. flew around for another 10 to 20 mins trying to engage wep to no avail!
Now I havent tested any others but I suspect I will find the same,except for the lengths of time. Unless you do multiple rearms I dont think it will make much difference as most planes dont have the flight time to do more than 1 or 2 recharge times!
YMMV!
:salute
Seems legit based on what ive read, the 190 had enough MW50 for two 10 min WEP-cycles.
-
The Fw190A-5 didn't use MW50. It used a higher engine setting with increased direct fuel injection. It should NOT be a consumable any more than the actual gas in the fuel cells.
I'm all for Hitech making WEP additives finite and require you to re-arm, but I think it SHOULD rearm, and he shouldn't limit WEP on planes that did NOT have any kind of additive involved. If the plane in question's WEP limits were heat based, let the cooldown cycle be infinitely repeatable as long as you have gas and as long as you abide by the cooldowns.
-
The Fw190A-5 didn't use MW50. It used a higher engine setting with increased direct fuel injection. It should NOT be a consumable any more than the actual gas in the fuel cells.
I'm all for Hitech making WEP additives finite and require you to re-arm, but I think it SHOULD rearm, and he shouldn't limit WEP on planes that did NOT have any kind of additive involved. If the plane in question's WEP limits were heat based, let the cooldown cycle be infinitely repeatable as long as you have gas and as long as you abide by the cooldowns.
+1000
-
+1000
But if persistent uses damages engines then that should be included in the wep model. Real life wep models is fine with me but it just needs to cover consumables and engine damage and or loss of power.
-
I'm all for Hitech making WEP additives finite and require you to re-arm, but I think it SHOULD rearm, and he shouldn't limit WEP on planes that did NOT have any kind of additive involved. If the plane in question's WEP limits were heat based, let the cooldown cycle be infinitely repeatable as long as you have gas and as long as you abide by the cooldowns.
+1
-
+1
+1
-
Name|HeatRate|CoolRate|Total Time
to calculate time from rate simply divide 1 / Rate.
I.E. p51d wep times is 1.0 / 0.0033 or 303
p51d 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
109g10 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
spit9 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
b17g 0.003300 0.001000 0.0
c47a 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
la5fn 0.001650 0.001650 600.0
n1k2 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
190a8 0.001650 0.000825 1200.0
c205 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
f4u1d 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
b26b 0.003300 0.001000 0.0
109f4 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
109g2 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
109g6 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
f4u1c 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
spit5 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
p38l 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
c202 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
typhoon 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
190a5 0.001650 0.000825 1200.0
yak9u 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
a6m5b 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
p47d30 0.003300 0.001650 900.0
p47d25 0.003300 0.001650 900.0
ju88a4 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
lanc3 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
f6f5 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
tbm3 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
seafire 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
tempest 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
ar234 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
ta152h 0.001670 0.003330 2400.0
190f8 0.001650 0.000825 1200.0
la7 0.001650 0.001650 600.0
yak9t 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
190d9 0.001670 0.003330 2400.0
p51b 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
p47d11 0.003300 0.001650 900.0
ki611c 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
il23 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
me262 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
f4u1 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
f4u4 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
hurri2c 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
hurri2d 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
mossie6 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
ki67 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
110c4 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
spit1 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
109e4 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
hurri1 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
110g2 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
spit14 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
boston3 0.003300 0.001000 0.0
f4f4 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
fm2 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
a20g 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
d3a1 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
sbd5 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
a6m2 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
p40e 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
p40c 0.000000 0.000000 600.0
me163 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
ju87d3 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
b5n2 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
ki84 0.011110 0.022220 600.0
b24j 0.003300 0.001000 0.0
p38g 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
p38j 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
p47n 0.003300 0.001650 900.0
109g14 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
spit8 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
spit16 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
rv8 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
f4u1a 0.003300 0.001650 480.0
b25c 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
b25h 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
p39d 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
p39q 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
i16 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
b239 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
p47m 0.003300 0.001650 900.0
dr1 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
f2b 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
camel 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
dvii 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
mossi16 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
g4m1 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
b29 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
a6m3 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
p40f 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
p40n 0.003300 0.001650 600.0
fi156 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
me410 0.001650 0.001650 2570.0
ju87g2 0.000000 0.000000 0.0
seahurr 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
he111 0.003300 0.001000 600.0
ki43 0.011110 0.022220 600.0
yak3 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
yak7b 0.003300 0.001650 0.0
tu2s 0.001650 0.001650 600.0
Hitech posted these a while ago.....took me a while to find it
The last number in the line is in seconds ....ie p51 has a total wep time of 600 seconds which is 10 minutes. The d9 has 2400 which would be 40 minutes.
-
The D9 has 40 mins of wep? What the heck..
-
The D9 has 40 mins of wep? What the heck..
It has 40 min total....it has to cool down phases in between. It cant use 40 mins all at once
-
It has 40 min total....it has to cool down phases in between. It cant use 40 mins all at once
Ah makes sense.
-
"MW-50 Water-Methanol Injection
MW-50 (MethanolWasser 50) is a 50-50 mixture of methanol and water sprayed into the Fw 190 D-9's supercharger of, allowing the use of increased boost pressures.
The MW-50 tank has a capacity of 115 liters (85 kg).
The primary effect of the mixture spray is its anti-detonant effect, which is how the increase in boost pressure is achieved.
The secondary effect of the mixture spray is cooling of the engine.
While the primary boost-increasing effects deteriorate with altitude, the secondary cooling effects are still noticeable. Therefore, the MW-50 system can be used to cool down the engine at all altitudes in an event of an emergency.
The boost provided by the MW-50 begins to decrease in power at altitudes above 6,000 meters.
The boost increase provided by MW 50 can be described with the word "incredible".
Turning the system on immediately increases engine power by almost 100 HP due to the fact that a cooler engine can pull in more air. At the same time, turning on the MW-50 enables much higher supercharger boost levels. In optimal conditions, both effects combined increase engine power by a whopping 350…400 HP."
(https://i.imgur.com/MD2QLV7.jpg)
-
Exactly Dobs! Was wondering about that. Guess it is just approximated in here instead of actually coded, maybe.? It works, so to me no matter. Never live long enough to worry about it :rofl
-
I wish that the rearm pad would repair damage...
-
I wish that the rearm pad would repair damage...
+1!!
Another thing to spend perks on!!
Also to change load out and flight score preference.
Would be cool
:)
-
+1!!
Another thing to spend perks on!!
Also to change load out and flight score preference.
Would be cool
:)
I hear you can do that in the hanger for free! :D
-
Seems legit based on what ive read, the 190 had enough MW50 for two 10 min WEP-cycles.
BMW engined 190s didn't use MW50.