Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on November 06, 2016, 11:03:12 AM
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I've been trying the GV side of the game a bit more these days, especially when the only air fights seem to be high alt pickers. I was out looking for a spawn point last night. Drove out and around coming at the yellow arrow marker from the rear. Well almost rear as the yellow arrow "covers" your icon :rolleyes:
So at almost max zoom on the map Im tracking down the southern side of the arrow. I stopped about a third or the length of the arrow away from the point. I heard GVs rolling, and I heard the fight going on closer to our base, but I never saw anyone spawn in. I would start and run up toward where I could see friendly icons 2k out looking for a spot to ambush tanks as they moved toward our base. I did get "Geefa" once so that gave me a warm fuzzy feeling :devil Got killed not long after by "CHISEL". Never heard nor saw him, didn't even hear the shot that he firer, just scanning one second, in the tower the next.
Questions,
Does the spawn point match were the arrow is on the map?
Does the spawn point terrain have a certain lay out so it can be recognized when you drive up to it?
How close is too close to a spawn?
Does the randomness of the spawn change with a tank being IN/too close to the spawn?
Do settings to remove trees hide tanks as well?
What settings do tankers use to optimize their view?
Are the sounds clearly directional? I seem to have a very hard time telling which direction a tank or plane for that matter is coming from. Thinking I may have my sound setting wrong, but if other have this issue, maybe not.
Does messing with the Gamma setting aid in looking through the trees?
I understand "hull down" and flanking and not to run in a strait line from a spawn to a target area, but what are some other things to consider or use when tanking?
I dont want to be a spawn camper, or park behind a bombed out hanger killing guys as they spawn in.... tho I understand the thrill :devil I'd like to be someone who ambushes tanks as they try to move up to those spawn camping positions. Is there spots that people use in this type of campaign? Spots I could look for/be aware of while setting up my spot.
I guess what Im looking for is a bit of a GVin primer. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. OH, and don't worry Im sure it will be a long time before Im a threat to any of you GVers :aok
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Get in a fast tank and attempt to find some high ground overlooking the spawn. You may not be able to obtain a firing solution but you ought to be able to determine an angle of intercept. FYI I had some reasonable success using this tactic while in an M8.
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For one fugi if you would like I can train ya later tonight in AvA we have the tankland map up and easy fights with some cover, I only use zoom for the tanks that have zoom site options but use it alot in the Commander View. Also anyone else is welcome to join tonight if you would like the more the merrier to help get fugi addicted to gving,,, oh no airplanes either just the storch
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Never really GV'd much in AH2 but find myself doing it alot in AH3 there's alot move real cover now and tanks seem to blend in better with the environment the changes in the terrains topography gives you better hull down placements. As far as the span points go the arrows are a rough estimate of where they will spawn in from which is a good thing to make it harder for the spawn campers which I hated in AH2.
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I believe its new to AH3 that you can actually hear the other tanks while your own engine is running if they are close enough. On the other hand now it seems like you can't hear the other tanks with your engine off if a plane is close overhead.
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Does the spawn point match were the arrow is on the map?
The tip of the arrow is the center of the spawn, but tanks spawn randomly within a circle of certain radius.
Does the spawn point terrain have a certain lay out so it can be recognized when you drive up to it?
No.
How close is too close to a spawn?
Matter of choice but I don't like to get to within an arrow head length. Actually, I don't like spawn camping at all; I prefer to set up an ambush point along a likely pathway.
Does the randomness of the spawn change with a tank being IN/too close to the spawn?
That has been claimed by many people. I do not know if it is true.
Do settings to remove trees hide tanks as well?
Yes.
What settings do tankers use to optimize their view?
I don't try to optimize my view as I prefer eye candy, but it is an advantage to turn off clutter when you are hull down as it makes it easier to see other tanks that might also be hull down.
Are the sounds clearly directional? I seem to have a very hard time telling which direction a tank or plane for that matter is coming from. Thinking I may have my sound setting wrong, but if other have this issue, maybe not.
I suspect it depends on your sound card or chip and how well its drivers handle positional audio. Some people report no trouble locating tanks with audio while in my case the audio is somewhat vague as to location.
I understand "hull down" and flanking and not to run in a strait line from a spawn to a target area, but what are some other things to consider or use when tanking?
It is critical to know where to hit each tank and at what range and with what kind of shell. You can learn this by going to the hanger and right clicking tanks and selecting armor. That will show the armor thickness, which is one variable. Note that thinner armor acts like thicker armor if it is sloped so take that into account as well. That dialog also shows the tanks gun armor piercing capability. You can also change the off-line drones to tanks (I think it's under Arena Settings/Drones) and try various shots against tanks at various distances and angles and target points for pratice.
Another thing to learn is how to properly use your tanks gunsight. I use the T34/85 exclusively so here's some hints. Use HVAP only up to ranges of 1200 yds. Use AP beyond that (assuming the targets are tanks, if buildings, then of course you use HE). If your target is a Panzer and it is broadside use the sight to measure it's length. If the length stretches between two ^ marks, i.e. ^ : ^, then the range to the tank is 800 yds. If it only covers 1/2 that, i.e. ^ : , then the tank is 1600 yds. You can interpolate between that. Note, however, that there is a parallax error with the T34/85 sight so it doesn't pay to set the range much below 600 yds. If the tank is facing you cut those values in half (because the Panzer is about 1/2 as wide as it is long). Most other tanks are about the same length, but you have to adjust a bit for something big like a Tiger II. Now, how much do you lead a moving tank? If the Panzer is traveling broadside at what looks like its full speed, then lead by two times the distance between ^ marks, i.e. ^ : ^ : ^. This is true pretty much independent of range (up to a point, the shell slows down due to drag so at long ranges lead a tad more). If the target is a T34 lead a bit more because it's faster. If it is an M4, a bit less because it's slower. If it's an M18 lead a LOT more because it's a LOT faster (I can't recall how many ^, it's just instinctual to me now). Also, never drive around without having your gunsight range set, if it's variable; I keep mine at 800 yds for the T34/85. If you don't have it set and you are surprised by a close range tank, you might miss because the range is set for something long range.
The last thing to learn is when NOT to fire. For example, if you are in a T34, even a T34/85, do not EVER fire on the frontal armor of a Tiger II, even at point blank range. You can't do anything to it. Wait until you have a side or rear shot. Even then, don't bother to fire on a Tiger II if it's long range; I don't bother beyond ca 1500 yds. What if you are surprised by a head on Tiger II? Well... die. Or, if he doesn't see you, be very very quiet and hope he turns his turret sideways, at which point you can turret him with HVAP. What if it's just a Panther; well, hit the bottom of the hull below the glacis (that sloped armor in the front leading up to the turret).
I don't want to be a spawn camper, or park behind a bombed out hanger killing guys as they spawn in.... tho I understand the thrill :devil I'd like to be someone who ambushes tanks as they try to move up to those spawn camping positions. Is there spots that people use in this type of campaign? Spots I could look for/be aware of while setting up my spot.
Since tanks can pretty much drive anywhere they want it is difficult to find actual choke points. You could try to set up an ambush for a road, but most AH tankers have learned that while it is easier, it is not wise to drive down roads or across open areas. The best way is to try the travel path yourself, i.e. perhaps off-line, and see what is the logical route to take between the spawn and the likely target and then look for a good spot. A note about hiding in the trees: you have to avoid the concept of the ostrich with his head in the sand. You might not be able to see through the trees because your commanders head, and your gunsight, are up above the lower branch level. However, the lower part of your hull, and your tracks, might still be plainly visible to someone beyond the trees you are hiding in. And note, you can shoot through trees now, well at least through their leaves. Any polygon that is classified as a trunk or branch will stop shells, but leaves will not. Don't be confused by the "bug" that a spurious explosion will happen when your shell goes through the leaves. Your shell continues on and will hit targets. I have killed many a tank this way. If it doesn't work for you, but works to kill you, it's not because the other guy is cheating, it's because you missed.
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For one fugi if you would like I can train ya later tonight in AvA we have the tankland map up and easy fights with some cover, I only use zoom for the tanks that have zoom site options but use it alot in the Commander View. Also anyone else is welcome to join tonight if you would like the more the merrier to help get fugi addicted to gving,,, oh no airplanes either just the storch
Thanks Mols, maybe another time. Internet is terrible tonight for some reason, even the BBS is loading slow.
Maybe after the election things will cool off and the internet will settle down some and we can hook up some night.
@715, thanks for the tips. I did spend some time off line today checking out the field of combat I was in in the OP. Spawning in from the other side showed me I was on the other side a large wooded area from the spawn. Testing gave me this.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/spawn_zpskef3pthh.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/spawn_zpskef3pthh.jpg.html)
After 25 spawns these were the most common spots I spawned in at. Others were close enough to these that I counted them as the same spot even tho I was 20 feet farther north or something. Some down and dirty measurements give me about 2500 as the long side of the arrow, so the pink circle covering the spawn area comes out at around 2000. So as a base measure about half to arrow away from the point puts you outside the spawn area.
With the trees, spawn camping doesn't look to be as easy as it was in AH2, which I think is a good thing.
Next is the sound setup. I wish AH had a sound test like windows and you could test the location of the sound. Ill keep messing with them until I can get a better read.
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same here been getting a blue screen crash latley
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@715, thanks for the tips. I did spend some time off line today checking out the field of combat I was in in the OP. Spawning in from the other side showed me I was on the other side a large wooded area from the spawn. Testing gave me this.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/spawn_zpskef3pthh.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/spawn_zpskef3pthh.jpg.html)
After 25 spawns these were the most common spots I spawned in at. Others were close enough to these that I counted them as the same spot even tho I was 20 feet farther north or something. Some down and dirty measurements give me about 2500 as the long side of the arrow, so the pink circle covering the spawn area comes out at around 2000.
Thanks Fugitive,
Useful info. This shows that the spawn area is larger than it was in AH2. In AH2 you could get much closer to the arrow point without risk of someone spawning behind you. I've been told that different tanks spawn at slightly different sites. I assume you used the same tank every time so I'm guessing that's not true.
715 was spot on with his answers based on my experience. I mostly GV and it's much more challenging in AH3.
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In AH2 (have not done much GVing in AH3 yet to see if it is the same), you could select generally, the area of the spawn you wanted to appear in by placing your cursor on a particular point on the spawn button in the clipboard.
Very roughly speaking, clicking on the spawn button close to each corner of the button would place you in relatively the corresponding position at the spawn site. You simply had to determine which way the spawn arrow pointed on the map to find the correct point on the button to position yourself to the front, left or right front, or back of the spawn site.
Don't know if it works the same in AH3. Also, the spawn site had a radius I believe of 500m, giving a 1K overall spawn circle. Typically I would flank around a spawn arrow then roll up to where the head of the arrow met the shaft, then survey the terrain. I would then position myself by moving left or right a bit, and possibly a bit forward, all depending on the terrain features and the fields of fire available.
If I didn't have time to reach and interdict the enemy spawn point, but could determine the most likely approach route, I would move some distance away from the base and towards the spawn to a point on the base-side of a hill, check for clear field of fire to the left and right of that hill. Then wait until a GV rumbles by, then fire into their engine from the rear as they pass. In this game, most tankers don't really operate together as armored units should. Individually, they mostly just head straight in towards the base, many without zigzagging or really paying attention to their flanks while in transit.
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fugitive, different tanks don't spawn in the same place as another ex: a t-34 won't spawn in the same place a panzer and so on.
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Very roughly speaking, clicking on the spawn button close to each corner of the button would place you in relatively the corresponding position at the spawn site. You simply had to determine which way the spawn arrow pointed on the map to find the correct point on the button to position yourself to the front, left or right front, or back of the spawn site.
One of the more persistant but rarer AH myths.
But unfortunately, not true either. The button is/was just the GUI equivalent of .fly X command. The placement in the spawn is completely random.
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One point. The top spawn camper Dr7 makes it a point to find the perfect hiding spot with the largest view of the spawn view. My guess is it is lots of trail and error on a new map to find that spot.
By luck, on one map in AH2, I found the path he used to access his hiding point. I just spawned camped the spawn camper repeatably shooting him down. That was the best fun in tank you could have.
This btw is not a slash against Dr7. He is a super good player and a nice guy in the game.
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Does the randomness of the spawn change with a tank being IN/too close to the spawn?
no. But the circle does increase with the amount of people spawning into it.
I explain it like this.
A spawn has say 7 regular spawn spots that a player will be located into when spawning in.
now if more players are spawning in more spawn spots are added (to a point).
The most being about 14 to 20 (and that increases the circle a bit).
But if you had a reload in your tank of .0001 seconds unlimited ammo and a turret that moved instantly you could sit in the middle of an open field of a spawn and kill everyone.
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no. But the circle does increase with the amount of people spawning into it.
I explain it like this.
A spawn has say 7 regular spawn spots that a player will be located into when spawning in.
now if more players are spawning in more spawn spots are added (to a point).
The most being about 14 to 20 (and that increases the circle a bit).
Spawns do not have random spawn "Spots" nor are they effect by where you click on a button (This is the first time I heard of the button position myth).
First it randomizes your position from the spawn point in a circle with the following code.
Dist = madRandom(0, arnaclntSettings.VehicleSpawn Radius);
Angle = madRandom(0, madPI * 2);
Pos->x += sin(Angle) * Dist;
Pos->z += cos(Angle) * Dist;
VehicleSpawnRadius can be found in arena settings under the Range tab.
Currently set to 1500 Feet.
It then checks to see if you have collided with any objects like trees, If your vehicle collided it moves you by its radius distance and checks again.
HiTech
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I believe its new to AH3 that you can actually hear the other tanks while your own engine is running if they are close enough. On the other hand now it seems like you can't hear the other tanks with your engine off if a plane is close overhead.
Does anyone really believe you would hear another tank engine inside your own tank with your engine running?
Or for that matter, the sounds of another planes engine (or his guns) from inside your own plane?
Turned these down as soon as I started playing...and wasn't until I got the comment "Never saw you, just heard you behind me" from a guy I bounced that made me go WTF? Heard me behind him.....ROFLMAO.
"I head the sounds of the enemy 109 behind me and broke hard" said no WWII pilot ever....
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Does anyone really believe you would hear another tank engine inside your own tank with your engine running?
Or for that matter, the sounds of another planes engine (or his guns) from inside your own plane?
Turned these down as soon as I started playing...and wasn't until I got the comment "Never saw you, just heard you behind me" from a guy I bounced that made me go WTF? Heard me behind him.....ROFLMAO.
"I head the sounds of the enemy 109 behind me and broke hard" said no WWII pilot ever....
Yep. If you kill your engine you can hear them at least 1.5k out. My personal workaround if I'm diving in on a guy from on high and he's unaware, is to kill my engine and feather the prop about 2k out. ;)
Strikes me as silly too but a lot of people really seem to like it. I guess the flipside is it would be kind of boring if all you could hear all the time was your engine and the radio.
Between the engine and the earphones IRL, I wonder if you'd even hear your own plane getting hit so much as feeling it?
Wiley.
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Spawns do not have random spawn "Spots" nor are they effect by where you click on a button (This is the first time I heard of the button position myth).
First it randomizes your position from the spawn point in a circle with the following code.
Dist = madRandom(0, arnaclntSettings.VehicleSpawn Radius);
Angle = madRandom(0, madPI * 2);
Pos->x += sin(Angle) * Dist;
Pos->z += cos(Angle) * Dist;
VehicleSpawnRadius can be found in arena settings under the Range tab.
Currently set to 1500 Feet.
It then checks to see if you have collided with any objects like trees, If your vehicle collided it moves you by its radius distance and checks again.
HiTech
Thanks for the info HiTech. Now I have to learn how to figure out how to figure the distance on the maps.
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One of the more persistant but rarer AH myths.
But unfortunately, not true either. The button is/was just the GUI equivalent of .fly X command. The placement in the spawn is completely random.
I experimented with spawning by clicking on a specific corners repeatedly, going full circle around a spawn point many times. Results were always the same. If I clicked in a specific corner I ended up in the same general area pf the spawn each time. Relative to the whole spawn point I could spawn towards the front, back, extreme left or right, or more or less dead center of the spawn each time.
Can't possibly know if that was just random luck or by programmed design, though with the amount of testing I did, it seemed a programmed response. I used it mostly in Tank Town melees, where I kept getting killed immediately if I spawned too close the firing line. I would then purposely re-up to the rear of the spawn then travel forward. Could tell easily that I was consistently spawning where I wanted given the terrain and the battle line of action. Random luck or programmed response. Sure seemed like the latter. Just saying either way it worked for me.
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I'd say number one thing you need to do to improve is to learn who the big players are, how they tend to play and what their habits are, and learn to recognize what looks like somewhere they're likely to be waiting.
This is only really applicable to big gv battles. If someone is waiting for you, engine off, hull down in a well sited position, you will die before you see them, no ifs ands or buts. But people have habits and patterns you can learn. You're not fighting the tank, you're fighting the guy driving it.
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I experimented with spawning by clicking on a specific corners repeatedly, going full circle around a spawn point many times. Results were always the same. If I clicked in a specific corner I ended up in the same general area pf the spawn each time. Relative to the whole spawn point I could spawn towards the front, back, extreme left or right, or more or less dead center of the spawn each time.
Can't possibly know if that was just random luck or by programmed design, though with the amount of testing I did, it seemed a programmed response. I used it mostly in Tank Town melees, where I kept getting killed immediately if I spawned too close the firing line. I would then purposely re-up to the rear of the spawn then travel forward. Could tell easily that I was consistently spawning where I wanted given the terrain and the battle line of action. Random luck or programmed response. Sure seemed like the latter. Just saying either way it worked for me.
Well if the owner/programmer of the game says.....
Spawns do not have random spawn "Spots" nor are they effect by where you click on a button (This is the first time I heard of the button position myth).
HiTech
Im guessing it was your imagination, with a bit of luck thrown in. :aok
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Spawns do not have random spawn "Spots" nor are they effect by where you click on a button (This is the first time I heard of the button position myth).
First it randomizes your position from the spawn point in a circle with the following code.
Dist = madRandom(0, arnaclntSettings.VehicleSpawn Radius);
Angle = madRandom(0, madPI * 2);
Pos->x += sin(Angle) * Dist;
Pos->z += cos(Angle) * Dist;
VehicleSpawnRadius can be found in arena settings under the Range tab.
Currently set to 1500 Feet.
It then checks to see if you have collided with any objects like trees, If your vehicle collided it moves you by its radius distance and checks again.
HiTech
I wish it would check and see if you were kill upon spawning in................... but then all the spawn campers would be crying if you fixed that problem
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Well if the owner/programmer of the game says.....
Im guessing it was your imagination, with a bit of luck thrown in. :aok
Can't argue with HiTech saying there is no such programming. However, when I was told about this I did perform the experimentation I described. I was very thorough in testing it out. I would spawn 10 times randomly at the same spawn point where I knew the terrain and could tell generally where in the spawn area I was appearing. I don't know why it worked, but it did. And at many different spawn points and on different maps. Go figure.
FYI - not to make too fine a point on this, but I am by profession a systems analyst, and did the testing to personally confirm what I was told. It held up, for whatever reason or by whatever causation for me. That's all I can say.
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Concerning sounds:
The default sounds use some stereo sounds in some situations. I believe the tanks can be heard up to 3.2k distance, but the effects of distance may make it hard for you to know exactly how far. The easiest way to find a tank is to be patient, scan carefully, and listen. Your sound card should make you able to pick out directions very accurately.
Don't sit still. It's like Sniper Elite where you fire to get the kill, and then relocate. Plan your ambush around the enemies approach to where you were, not where you are.
What is it like looking through the M4 periscope (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5K587nISU)? This tank is unbuttoned with the engine and ventilation fans running.