General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dobs on November 09, 2016, 07:41:28 AM
Title: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 09, 2016, 07:41:28 AM
This is way too common over the featureless expanse of blue black we call water in the game..
Please add some definition to the water.....waves, ripples.....something to be able to judge height above water so guys don't do this.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Lazerr on November 09, 2016, 09:30:36 AM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Jed on November 09, 2016, 10:02:21 AM
+7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: puller on November 09, 2016, 10:44:04 AM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: MickDono on November 09, 2016, 11:52:05 AM
+1 This will probably get moved to the wishlist and ignored..
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: SirNuke on November 09, 2016, 12:57:07 PM
the water has always been bad, but before we had the choice
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Sloehand on November 09, 2016, 01:02:22 PM
+1 As is, there is absolutely no depth perception, air to water. Can't fight on the deck trying to watch altimeter so I don't take an early bath. Therefore, I now avoid all combat anywhere near a CV and most shoreline bases. Player behavioral change due to unplayable features of the game. Not a good thing.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Max on November 09, 2016, 01:44:05 PM
In a CV or PT the current water looks fabulous and immersive. From the air, it's a black hole, and AH2 seas were much more friendly, at altitude.
My guess is, Hitech is aware of and working to correct the problem.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: lunatic1 on November 09, 2016, 01:47:21 PM
please don't ban me but, can we please have a response from HiTech or Skuzzy-pretty please.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: ImADot on November 09, 2016, 02:10:07 PM
I think the water now reflects the environment more than just being a texture mapped to a polygon. It might or might not improve.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 09, 2016, 02:22:16 PM
a cheap fix that would help is having the icon disappear when in water. also expanding the reflection from the sun to a broader more diffuse appearance. maybe changing the lighting on the ground/water. Definitely needs some more light.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Biggamer on November 09, 2016, 06:13:34 PM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: JimmyC on November 09, 2016, 06:41:20 PM
whitecaps too
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: ACE on November 09, 2016, 06:53:55 PM
Just augered into the water :( Please fix
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 09, 2016, 08:50:16 PM
if i recall correctly, it give your nerves a little jolt from the shock of hitting the water.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Shuffler on November 09, 2016, 10:23:04 PM
+38 :D
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on November 09, 2016, 11:57:34 PM
Word :old:
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: save on November 10, 2016, 03:34:36 AM
It has replaced the trees as the highest K/D maschine. +42
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Randy1 on November 10, 2016, 05:30:05 AM
I would like to hear from real life pilots that have flown low, over water quite a bit before I plus or minus this one.
I have not hit the water in AH3 since beta but it does make it much harder to engage a fighter low. I have used the dark look to my advantage several times. Recently on a lone flight, I was jumped by four reds over water. I got two and sent two home smoking. I am not that good but I do not fear hitting the water and that played to my advantage. My point is that the water as it is, is not all bad.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: -ammo- on November 10, 2016, 07:30:12 AM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: save on November 10, 2016, 07:50:48 AM
Flown ultralights for 20 years, only when its dead calm or in foggy situations you have problems with seeing water . Some float guys brought stones with them when wind was calm - to create miniwakes.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: GScholz on November 10, 2016, 09:29:07 AM
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: GScholz on November 10, 2016, 10:03:17 AM
I think IL2 COD's water strikes a good balance:
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on November 10, 2016, 12:16:30 PM
Yep ... I agree. To me, COD is the most visually immersive flight sim out there from the cockpits to the terrain and Wx phenomenons.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: 100Coogn on November 10, 2016, 12:20:42 PM
Even the seat in the plane looks great.
Coogan
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: MickDono on November 10, 2016, 01:27:33 PM
Looks 100x better!
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Kazaa on November 10, 2016, 02:06:55 PM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 10, 2016, 02:34:16 PM
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 16, 2016, 04:46:19 PM
If you can't fix it, anyway to change the color to something that doesn't hide the aircraft...missing alot of "depth perception" on a 2d monitor..makes it worse when their is no definable edges to the "thing" in front of you....
Because right now, next to night, water is the worst aspect of this sim graphically.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Squire on November 16, 2016, 06:55:37 PM
+1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 16, 2016, 07:33:00 PM
If the wave height was upped to 3 feet maybe we get more light on the water?
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: scott66 on November 16, 2016, 09:03:32 PM
Now personally I've never flown a ww2 aircraft over water , hell I'm not even a pilot but judging altitude using water as the deck of the terrain maybe as difficult in real life as it is in the game.. the only time I have a problem with the water graphics is when I'm swimming in it HITECH needs to fix it... The water temp in the game is 84 degrees ain't no way it's that warm in real life! Get it together HITECH! :neener: please don't PNG me I've had way too much coffee
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Peanut1 on November 16, 2016, 11:48:56 PM
+1 As is, there is absolutely no depth perception, air to water. Can't fight on the deck trying to watch altimeter so I don't take an early bath. Therefore, I now avoid all combat anywhere near a CV and most shoreline bases. Player behavioral change due to unplayable features of the game. Not a good thing.
I agree
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 17, 2016, 01:37:31 PM
Maybe use tropical water colors instead to create some kind of contrast.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 17, 2016, 01:54:11 PM
Maybe use tropical water colors instead to create some kind of contrast.
+1
Not sure if the light blue water seen at times during twilight is tropical,but that is what I was thinking...
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 17, 2016, 02:31:14 PM
So I'll apologize up front for the language.... but the water here is highlighted pretty well, and with cloud shadows you can actually judge the height above.
But when I go into complete shadow...it becomes featureless once again.
Maybe they just need to up the light level some and not make high cirrus cast shadows..
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: JimmyC on November 17, 2016, 06:28:16 PM
Chk 6 Dobby :devil
jk :D
:bolt:
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 17, 2016, 09:06:24 PM
Couldn't go full screen on the other one..don't know why...
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 18, 2016, 03:18:54 AM
See Rules #2, #4
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on November 18, 2016, 07:15:47 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dawger on November 18, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
" Man a field gun" is chapter 1 in the classic "Pudknocker BFM" series
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: MickDono on November 18, 2016, 12:07:53 PM
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bruv119 on November 18, 2016, 12:55:13 PM
man the game looks awesome running at those resolutions.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Chilli on November 18, 2016, 05:53:01 PM
4 to 2 odds don't mean hill of beans when it's against The Few or LD. These guys have a knack for tearing into defenders with surgical precision and one shot kills.
Nat, the post was about the water contrast, and looking at Dobs film, one could make an argument for "lighting / shadow" adjustments. Notice the dark areas (shaded) are missing the contrast that takes away from the pilot's orientation when wildly maneuvering in battle.
Prior arguments have been made for choppier wave textures. Both are areas that I hope will be acceptable for adjustments in the future development of AH3.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: save on November 20, 2016, 03:27:48 AM
First I thought it was a Yak3 just after takeoff :D
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bizman on November 20, 2016, 03:56:19 AM
Yesternight I managed to spot a PT boat and could sink it a couple of times with my G6. The first pass went fine, the second time I crashed to sea right after the kill message. It was very hard to determine how high I was compared to shooting tanks. I admit that I often crash in tank shooting, too, but usually into a tree instead of the ground.
This experiment raised an idea: Since we can have several types of clutter on the ground, flowers swaying in the wind etc., couldn't we have similar effects on the sea surface, too? I'm not talking about seaweed or or fish or mermaids, I'm thinking about foam from breaking waves and such. Water on water, so to say. Something similar to the waves on the shores rolling and fading, only in short fractions.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bruv119 on November 20, 2016, 07:56:03 AM
some fish and mermaids would be pretty cool though right?
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Estes on November 20, 2016, 08:03:20 AM
Can you not toggle the reflections I think it was on it anymore? Made it easier for me to gauge it that way
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Chilli on November 20, 2016, 07:16:32 PM
Bizman,
I am pretty sure there are two separate portions of the terrain. Water is done by a dedicated program if you recall the previews of the waves from surface views. The grass and trees are done by another dedicated program. Still, I agree that textures seem to be an area that is a problem at low altitudes in shadows.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bizman on November 21, 2016, 01:49:41 AM
Chilli, I remember the "getting wetter" video which made many people seasick. However, the current sea surface doesn't seem to act like that. The only movement I can see is the waves breaking on the shores and that looks like a seamlessly looping gif animation - which works very well by the way. Viewed on the boat the sea looks just fine for a perfectly calm day. However, it didn't seem to change in Offline either no matter how I set the wind.
As for the sea and ground being two separate portions, you may be either right or wrong according to my logic. As you remember from the Alpha and Beta, if you managed to go below ground level you were in the sea. So the ground is just a layer of texture floating over water. Or rather skinned polygons for elevations.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 21, 2016, 04:28:44 AM
It has to be in the lighting. The strange source of light and how it reflects. We have the direct source of light as the sun, the water reflects this light very intensely and allows the 6 inch wave height to be seen. I see the problem (of a bland dark blue water with the only detail being circular shade differences that are seemingly related to the wind screen or are artifacts of a lighting scheme) starting at the edge of the sun glare, circling the player, until the sunglare resumes. To fix the problem we need more light reflection from indirect light. something off the land and sky to the water that gives the 6 inch waves some definition. When we can regain some sense of water movement from altitude, from the shape size increase of color changes related to water movement, I think dome sense of depth perception can be gathered. Increasing the wave height and length could help create more color differences from reflective shading contrast.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on November 21, 2016, 04:44:33 AM
here we have the sun at a high angel to the cameras left. there is a refection from the ship on the water that is perpendicular to the suns angle, and the entire surface is reflecting light back at me making the waves visible from altitude.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: FLOOB on November 21, 2016, 06:51:19 AM
Couldn't go full screen on the other one..don't know why...
Turn your engine sound way up, turn your gun sounds way down, get trackir and don't swear on vox.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bizman on November 21, 2016, 10:23:04 AM
NatCigg, thanks for the photo! It reveals another issue that has somewhat bugged me: The wake. In your photo it clearly shows that the wake doesn't create an arrow of foam like it does in AH3. The wash on the bow doesn't exceed the width of the ship.
Another thing visible in the photo is the waves: The ripple on the actual waves is what we see in AH3. I must admit it looks nice especially from the PT boat but it must be very rare for any sea to be that calm on a bright sunny day.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 21, 2016, 10:49:14 AM
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Chilli on November 22, 2016, 12:27:39 PM
Thanks to the films and pictures, it was evident to me (and at least one other poster here) that wave caps are not very obviously represented. I am very interested in seeing "foam" somewhat like that near the shorelines, but on a much smaller visible scale. At distance it would look almost like tiny specks seen in the black and white photo. Only at distances ~250 ft or so would the "foam" animation take shape as a "rolling wave cap" (a much abbreviated form of what we see around shorelines). In order for this to be consistent with the "surface", coad should probably take into consideration height of the wireframe at various positions and also the random effect caused by wind and sea conditions (basically some sort of modifier that would proportionally increase or decrease the number of wave caps per area)
I may start a new thread in wishlist if:
what I am pondering has any basis in the way the water animation is generated
the type of changes would not unnecessarily steal fps or memory
the result clearly enhances the way the present water system looks both at distant altitude, but most importantly at close range and under shade
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: rvflyer on November 25, 2016, 03:42:03 AM
Depends on conditions I fly over water a lot. If it is relatively calm day and the water is fairly smooth it is difficult to judge the distance above the water. Seaplane pilot have to be extremely cautious when landing on smooth lake because of the depth perception problem. Having said that over rough waters such a seas with waves or over lakes where there is a strong breeze blowing it is fairly simple to judge distance from the water. Over seas with just rolling waves and no white caps it can still be difficult to accurately tell altitude by sight. Most of us that fly real airplanes keep a close watch on our altitude and altimeters over land or water, but that is a whole different story than being involved with combat.
I would like to hear from real life pilots that have flown low, over water quite a bit before I plus or minus this one.
I have not hit the water in AH3 since beta but it does make it much harder to engage a fighter low. I have used the dark look to my advantage several times. Recently on a lone flight, I was jumped by four reds over water. I got two and sent two home smoking. I am not that good but I do not fear hitting the water and that played to my advantage. My point is that the water as it is, is not all bad.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: FLOOB on November 25, 2016, 04:58:41 AM
Depends on conditions I fly over water a lot. If it is relatively calm day and the water is fairly smooth it is difficult to judge the distance above the water. Seaplane pilot have to be extremely cautious when landing on smooth lake because of the depth perception problem. Having said that over rough waters such a seas with waves or over lakes where there is a strong breeze blowing it is fairly simple to judge distance from the water. Over seas with just rolling waves and no white caps it can still be difficult to accurately tell altitude by sight. Most of us that fly real airplanes keep a close watch on our altitude and altimeters over land or water, but that is a whole different story than being involved with combat.
Exactly, but I doubt truth and facts are enough to stifle the dumb water whiners.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dawger on November 25, 2016, 06:15:33 AM
I think Dobs is ideally qualified to comment accurately on what the water should look like and the difficulties of judging altitude in aerial combat over water.
My personal experience also indicates that the present water in Aces High poorly represents real world conditions except for those present during specific meteorological conditions.
Glassy water landings are only a challenge because one foot is critical when landing on water. One can certainly determine rough height above water even over glassy water close enough for general aerobatic purposes.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vulcan on November 28, 2016, 04:35:46 PM
Embrace the water, be one with the water, make it thy friend and thy enemies shall suffer.
...just ask lilmak and blondie :devil
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Shuffler on November 28, 2016, 05:04:12 PM
I think Dobs is ideally qualified to comment accurately on what the water should look like and the difficulties of judging altitude in aerial combat over water.
My personal experience also indicates that the present water in Aces High poorly represents real world conditions except for those present during specific meteorological conditions.
Glassy water landings are only a challenge because one foot is critical when landing on water. One can certainly determine rough height above water even over glassy water close enough for general aerobatic purposes.
I concur 100%.
Flown to Florida three times in the last month and made a point to really look at the water. All of it. Ocean. Lakes. Glades. Canals.
AH3 water, while very nice up close, is not cutting it everywhere else.
It was said HTC is aware and working on it. Hope so.
OTOH, I have exploited this into a number of maneuver kills when defensive so it has its advantages. :)
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Chilli on December 01, 2016, 04:48:49 PM
/*************************Version 3.0 Patch 11/12 ********************/ 1. Made the ocean waves bigger and brighter.
:banana: :x :rock
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 01, 2016, 04:55:20 PM
/*************************Version 3.0 Patch 11/12 ********************/ 1. Made the ocean waves bigger and brighter.
:banana: :x :rock
:cheers: :banana: :rock :salute :x :aok
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on December 01, 2016, 05:02:54 PM
:banana:
yep just took a a6m around a loop to 6 inches from the wing tip in a right turn then back around, no crash vertigo or fear! the glare is almost stunning. there is a problem though with the wave pattern refreshing or changing every second. a predictable warp. good enough for now. :banana:
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Owlblink on December 01, 2016, 05:16:44 PM
:salute all
At first I honostly thought this was just a bunch of people dealing poorly with change and that we'd all adapt with time. However, I have sense experienced what others here have "ran" into.
A good test is to up in the DA in furball lake and get into a really good low alt e/stall fight. I've pulled up a foot above the water and only really felt like I was close to its surface within the ladt few feet. I've also crashed into it myself and have seen numerous others do the same while performing ACMs.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Bruv119 on December 01, 2016, 05:20:06 PM
It does look much better just need to sort that weird rotation or warp when changing views.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: lunatic1 on December 01, 2016, 06:00:03 PM
The water animation anomaly is just temporary. It was a quick fix to give us time to provide a more permanent solution. We are aware of the cloud flicker.
A minor correction, Skuzzy didn't say poor, but did indicate there will be further improvements. This is win, win (not when, when?) for me. I can tolerate the water hiccup in animation for as long as it takes for HTC to "smooth" things out (in this case I like that they "roughed" things up :azn: a bit in the current fix).
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Lazerr on December 02, 2016, 12:44:26 PM
Thanks for the fix on the water. Sorry for the two guys in this thread that liked it.. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Randy1 on December 02, 2016, 02:51:20 PM
Thanks for the fix on the water. Sorry for the two guys in this thread that liked it.. :headscratch:
Not sure why there was so much whining about the water. These things do have altimeters. Like the little building at the end of the runway, it just added a new challenge. I must say though I barely got over the building with a Deuce.
I did like the reflections. Other than the neat inland waters that are now kind of trashy, I have no problem with this change albeit it was just fine the way they were.
Credit should be given to HTC for listening to what so many players saw as a problem instead of a challenge. :salute
I would also wager that a lot of the ones that wanted the change will still hit the water.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: zack1234 on December 03, 2016, 03:45:16 AM
I don't like the new water
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2016, 04:35:37 AM
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 03, 2016, 09:02:29 AM
Definitely a big improvement. Doing nose down turns 1K over the water to avoid getting shot was risky business. Glad there is some judgement now.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: JunkyII on December 03, 2016, 12:43:06 PM
I personally feel like it's the horizon thats messing everyone up...not the depth perception of the water...but I don't base my alt off of what the ground looks like I use the horizon as my point of reference and my instruments for exact numbers
EDIT....The horizon isn't very clear depending on what terrain you are flying over....a mix of land and water really messes up the render of it.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: zack1234 on December 03, 2016, 03:21:50 PM
It's has a frame rate of 1
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: NatCigg on December 04, 2016, 05:00:13 AM
:rofl
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: pipz on December 04, 2016, 10:10:22 AM
I could be wrong but is there some kind of gadget in front of you, on every plane, that tells you your alt?
That still doesn't help very much when you are looking behind you trying to judge your opponent and the water during a nose down turn close to the deck.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: oakranger on December 04, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
That still doesn't help very much when you are looking behind you trying to judge your opponent and the water during a nose down turn close to the deck.
It is call multi-tasking.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: hitech on December 04, 2016, 12:07:56 PM
That still doesn't help very much when you are looking behind you trying to judge your opponent and the water during a nose down turn close to the deck.
Its called the hud in the top right corner..
HiTech
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on December 04, 2016, 12:16:03 PM
I like it, very helpful fix. :aok
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 04, 2016, 12:25:16 PM
Yeah, no that helps. The new water looks a lot better. I lose perception at about 12K now. I use the terrain to my advantage by cutting it real close sometimes. A lot of times it's hard to look at the altimeter or the top Hud, while looking back, and trying to do scissor maneuvers at the same time to avoid getting shot. I've had a couple enemies completely miss judge their shot in the nose down turn and slam right into the water trying to shoot me lol. It pops up quickly.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Shuffler on December 04, 2016, 01:27:17 PM
I turned off HUD first thing. No plane had it in WWII.
I don't have it on either.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: lunatic1 on December 04, 2016, 01:34:17 PM
sorry
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: lunatic1 on December 04, 2016, 01:38:47 PM
HEY!! you'all wanted a fix for the water-you got a fix for the water-they will probably improve it later-but it's good enough for now. please quit griping
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Shuffler on December 04, 2016, 01:41:22 PM
HEY!! you'all wanted a fix for the water-you got a fix for the water-they will probably improve it later-but it's good enough for now. please quit griping
I have yet to fly over water since fix. Anything would be better than before.
I'll be on this evening. :aok
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 04, 2016, 02:34:06 PM
That still doesn't help very much when you are looking behind you trying to judge your opponent and the water during a nose down turn close to the deck.
I just came out of Florida again today and made sure to give the water a look and take a guess as to my height.
Even at 10,000 feet I was guessing within a couple hundred feet. One doesn't need an altimeter unless the water is dead calm and glassy--and I would suspect gross estimates would still be easy.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: JunkyII on December 04, 2016, 03:10:19 PM
HEY!! you'all wanted a fix for the water-you got a fix for the water-they will probably improve it later-but it's good enough for now. please quit griping
Hear, Hear!!!
Coogan
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 04, 2016, 03:34:32 PM
HEY!! you'all wanted a fix for the water-you got a fix for the water-they will probably improve it later-but it's good enough for now. please quit griping
I am glad it has been fixed. Wish I had my rig with me to test it out. :(
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dawger on December 04, 2016, 04:46:06 PM
The new water looks pretty good. Much more like real world water looks from an airplane.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Kazaa on December 05, 2016, 06:16:39 AM
Just need to lower the reflection of the sun on the water now.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: rvflyer on December 05, 2016, 03:39:41 PM
and a P-38 didn't turn in WWII like they do in the game. :-)
and a P-38 didn't turn in WWII like they do in the game. :-)
Top aces in PTO flew 38s. :)
Check Bong, McGuire, MacDonald, and many more.
I did get to checkout the water last night. Looks better for visually judging alt when low in the game.. Now when the short loop is fixed it will be great.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dawger on December 06, 2016, 11:17:29 AM
I am not referring to its slow speed elevator performance.
And for an airplane with twin rudders with a very large amount of prop slipstream blowing on them, rudder performance is incredibly weak.
Counter-rotating slipstreams.
You also want to watch the AH rudders to see how slowly they move. It's easy to push your control to full deflection and back while the rudder only gets half deflected. It's useful to know how slowly you need to move your controller for the rudders to keep up.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dawger on December 07, 2016, 01:02:31 PM
You've actually flown a P-38 in real life to know this? Just curious...
Unfortunately, no, I haven't managed to fly a P-38 in real life although I do have about 5,000 hours in a twin tail, twin engine airplane including some " unusual attitudes".
The rudder effectiveness in AH for many airplanes is seriously undermodeled in my opinion, not just the P-38.
However, my opinion is only based upon my 30 year career in aviation and very long time study of aerodynamics and aircraft performance and should be generally disregarded.
:x
................
Counter rotating props? Are you positing that they cancel each other out?
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: JunkyII on December 07, 2016, 02:43:55 PM
You also want to watch the AH rudders to see how slowly they move. It's easy to push your control to full deflection and back while the rudder only gets half deflected. It's useful to know how slowly you need to move your controller for the rudders to keep up.
wouldn't this be a bug then??? Shouldn't the rudder respond to EXACTLY what the input is because of the wires and pullys? Is it delayed to compensate for the actual resistance you would feel on normal pedals?
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 07, 2016, 03:03:56 PM
wouldn't this be a bug then??? Shouldn't the rudder respond to EXACTLY what the input is because of the wires and pullys? Is it delayed to compensate for the actual resistance you would feel on normal pedals?
One of my biggest hang ups with the FM in here. It is a recipe for PIO.
If it isn't the FM then it is my stick settings. Definitely drives me nuts.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: FLS on December 07, 2016, 03:56:04 PM
wouldn't this be a bug then??? Shouldn't the rudder respond to EXACTLY what the input is because of the wires and pullys? Is it delayed to compensate for the actual resistance you would feel on normal pedals?
No no and yes.
The rudder response is delayed to simulate resistance from air pressure. So are your ailerons and elevator when you get fast enough.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Shuffler on December 07, 2016, 04:00:51 PM
For game playability with different hardware, we can also set dampening and dead zones. All of these will affect your experience in any game.
If you have a cheap spikey stick you will appreciate that.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 07, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
Have you flown with twin rudders? I imagine they have twice the resistance.
Yes I have.
They don't behave this way. Nor should they. Two small tails or one tall one. Samey same really. Perhaps Colombo will weigh in since he has a ton of B-24 time. It's bigger than what I've flown but I am sure he will have some useful insight.
No airplane in game feels right, frankly. I've never had rudder and pitch responses lag like this in ANY airplane--and I have flown dozens and dozens of different types.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vudu15 on December 08, 2016, 06:58:42 PM
Fly a 110C4 it could always be worse....
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: FLS on December 08, 2016, 08:14:46 PM
They don't behave this way. Nor should they. Two small tails or one tall one. Samey same really. Perhaps Colombo will weigh in since he has a ton of B-24 time. It's bigger than what I've flown but I am sure he will have some useful insight.
No airplane in game feels right, frankly. I've never had rudder and pitch responses lag like this in ANY airplane--and I have flown dozens and dozens of different types.
Of course they don't lag, they're just harder to push than game controllers. Move the rudder control slower and the rudder will track with it.
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Dobs on December 08, 2016, 08:20:30 PM
Direct driven rudders, aka rods and cables.....rudders don't delay in any aircraft, they respond to the control input given. If airpressure is excessive then you can't push the rudder pedal. Flight sims normally model this by limiting rudder authority at speed, not speed of deflection.
If I can get 10 degrees of rudder deflection at 300knots, it doesn't matter if I get that with slow pressure or by stomping the rudder pedal for a quick deflection.
Good to know that the FM is modeled with a "deflection rate" and doesn't correspond to input rate...
Title: Re: Can we please fix the water?
Post by: Vraciu on December 08, 2016, 08:31:25 PM
If you look at the rudder response on the RV8 and Fi156 they track the controller movement. The lag in rudder response in other aircraft is a game design choice to simulate the higher resistance.