General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: haggerty on December 30, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
Title: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on December 30, 2016, 05:47:23 PM
I love intercepting bombers but I'm getting really sick of them hiding off map and then bailing as soon as you spot them. I'm not sure how to fix it...perhaps sending video to someone, getting their bails converted to deaths and the hunter credited with the 3 kills? Or maybe increase the proxy range atleast for bombers, if anyone is within visual range and you bail, the hunter should be credited for causing that fear to happen.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: EagleDNY on December 30, 2016, 06:45:35 PM
Universal shaming would probably work best: System Message: <UserID> just bailed from a perfectly good aircraft!
Or perhaps an even better solution would be a new ACHIEVEMENT! AT 10 bails: System Message: <UserID> has just been awarded the Order of the Silk Chicken!
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 30, 2016, 08:33:16 PM
you do understand that a bail is consider a death right?
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 30, 2016, 09:41:52 PM
you do understand that a bail is consider a death right?
semp
That's not how the game treats it, otherwise the game would lump bails with deaths but it doesn't because bails (along with discos, deaths, and captured) factor into your score.
Kills per Death = TotalKills / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)
So, a bail is not considered a death in terms of how the game scores.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 30, 2016, 10:18:50 PM
+bails+captures+deaths+1.
so it lumps bails, captures and deaths into the same category. you can say a death is the same as a bail or a capture. or maybe a bail is the same as a capture or a death. but I think the game just wants you to know how many times you bailed, got captured or died if you cared to know that.
what is the point of converting bails to death when they are treated as the same thing.
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Lusche on December 30, 2016, 10:48:07 PM
You two are both right.
For score point purposes (which, as 'kill points' and 'damage points' is a art of the score rank calculation), bails are different from 'true deaths', having a point modifier of 0.5 instead of 0.25 if you got outright killed.
However, for purposes of computing things like kills/death or damage/death, which is part of the score/rank calculation, too, it's actually the same as a death. Just like the formula AKAK presented actually shows.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: pembquist on December 30, 2016, 10:59:56 PM
I have said it before I'll say it again:
5 reasons bomber pilots bail:
1.) Screw You Cowboy: Bombing at 30K flying for 2 hours, "When I blow the crap out of this city my need for agency, so unsatisfied in real life will finally be met, euphoria will ensue," watch nme defender darbar grow, when nme fighter within 4K bail. Rationale: passive aggresion more satisfying (bird in hand) than the remote possibility of shooting down nme fighter (2 in bush,) especially when compared to the despair from the shame of failing in an effing VIDEO GAME. "WHY CAN'T I EVER WIN????"
2.) Oh For Chris'sakes: "I have no control surfaces 2 engines etc., my time is valuable for chris'sakes I'm not going to wait around for mister egomaniac fighter jock to set up his high speed off angle run just so he can feel glorious, sorry to offend but its a tough world buddy."
3.) I'm on a MISSION: (not a mission in the sense of pickupmission but in the sense of MISSSION,) "I've GOT to KILL those hangars/gvs in town/ack factory as part of my megalomaniacal plan, the bomber is a tool to be discarded when not working, it doesn't work without bombs, duhhh!! My time is important and I have a JOB TO DO, sorry bub if you don't like it you can go furball with your (young cat/type of willow,) friends."
4.) AFK: Player launched about 90 minutes ago and immediately ALT TAB back to work. Now he's got 15 minutes to play between sales calls, back in the game...."huh, look how far I've gone" RETURN RETURN RETURN "where's a furball anyway...oh look at that big red darbar over the HQ, funny I was just there."
5.) ALT F4: The player hears keys in the front door and remembers all those casual promises he made 5 hours ago in the morning to his wife things like: paint the house, buy groceries, get a job, turn off the stove, feed the baby etc etc and realizes he is still in his underwear with a puddle of drool on his keyboard ALT F4 ALT F4 ALT F4 ALT F4 ALT F4 ALT F4, panic panic, despair, shame, suicidal thoughts etc. etc. "People were lined up my 6? I've got bigger problems bub, anyone know a good divorce lawyer??"
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: flatiron1 on December 31, 2016, 05:31:01 AM
does getting kills in bombers affect score? If it doesn't it should. That would be a incentive not to bail I think.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Lusche on December 31, 2016, 06:00:34 AM
No. But someone who bails that way doesn't care about score anyway, because bailing badly hurts it (if you'd fight, you might have a chance to get home for better score).
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Greebo on December 31, 2016, 06:21:33 AM
I agree the way to reduce this issue would be to make it so that any bomber that bails is scored as a kill (or kills) to the nearest fighter in dot range, assuming another player hasn't already scored damage on that bomber. That takes away the "screw you" incentive, or at least reduces the time wasted by an interceptor if the bomber bails prior to him coming into dot range.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zoney on December 31, 2016, 09:54:52 AM
Stop feeding the Trolls who bomb and bail. They exist and take sustenance from your frustration. Don't talk about it, don't PM them, don't call them out on 200. You know their gameplay failed, they know their gameplay failed, leave it at that, quietly.
Wag more, Bark less
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 10:21:26 AM
I love intercepting bombers but I'm getting really sick of them hiding off map and then bailing as soon as you spot them. I'm not sure how to fix it...perhaps sending video to someone, getting their bails converted to deaths and the hunter credited with the 3 kills? Or maybe increase the proxy range atleast for bombers, if anyone is within visual range and you bail, the hunter should be credited for causing that fear to happen.
Award three kills to the closest enemy within visual range.
Solved.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 31, 2016, 11:19:04 AM
Award three kills to the closest enemy within visual range.
Solved.
on the other hand for those bombers that decide to fight, if any fighter makes a 1/2 attempt to shoot it down then dives to the ground then award a kill to the bomber. I dont fly bombers much but this was the annoying part of a bomber run. either on the way in or out often there would always be that fighter or 2 that would just dive in hope for a kill then run.
after all fair is fair. if I damage a fighter and he dives to rtb then I deserve that kill.
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: 100Coogn on December 31, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
on the other hand for those bombers that decide to fight, if any fighter makes a 1/2 attempt to shoot it down then dives to the ground then award a kill to the bomber. I dont fly bombers much but this was the annoying part of a bomber run. either on the way in or out often there would always be that fighter or 2 that would just dive in hope for a kill then run.
after all fair is fair. if I damage a fighter and he dives to rtb then I deserve that kill.
semp
But the fighter is diving to RTB. He did not bail...
Coogan
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 31, 2016, 11:56:35 AM
on the other hand for those bombers that decide to fight, if any fighter makes a 1/2 attempt to shoot it down then dives to the ground then award a kill to the bomber. I dont fly bombers much but this was the annoying part of a bomber run. either on the way in or out often there would always be that fighter or 2 that would just dive in hope for a kill then run.
after all fair is fair. if I damage a fighter and he dives to rtb then I deserve that kill.
semp
Diving to avoid is not bailing and RTB is never a kill under any scenario. Apples to oranges.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 12:10:12 PM
what is the difference, he's denying somebody a well deserved kill.
semp
There is no guarantee the bomber would score a kill so your scenario doesn't hold merit. On the other hand... If the bomber scares the fighter guy into bailing the bomber gets the kill.
This isn't a hard concept.
If your presence scares an enemy into abandoning his aircraft that's a kill. Period.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: bozon on December 31, 2016, 12:12:32 PM
I said this 100 times before - put a token price tag on drones. Your single bomber is free, the next two cost. You lose perks per lost bomber, so the 3rd lost is "free".
Remember that nothing cost perks in AH if you land it.
You can still bomb&bail, kamikaze, bail on sight, or ditch the drones and dive, but you either do it with a single bomber, or pay the perks.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 12:17:59 PM
Reward a kill to the guy who caused the wuss to bail. He is the reason the guy abandoned ship.
Warbirds did it this way and it worked perfectly.
There's absolutely no logical explanation to refuse a kill award to the guy who scared the bad guy into bailing out.
If you want to bail you take the chance of being scored as a kill if someone is in visual range when you do. Simple. Efficient. Fair.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: 100Coogn on December 31, 2016, 12:20:11 PM
Diving to avoid is not bailing and RTB is never a kill under any scenario. Apples to oranges.
you ping the crap out of a fighter and he decides to quit the fight and dive and you consider that ok. and yet you want to force bombers to fight to death even when they dont want to.
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 31, 2016, 02:08:32 PM
There is no guarantee the bomber would score a kill so your scenario doesn't hold merit. On the other hand... If the bomber scares the fighter guy into bailing the bomber gets the kill.
This isn't a hard concept.
If your presence scares an enemy into abandoning his aircraft that's a kill. Period.
if a bomber decides to dive to try to get some separation the fighter can actually chase him. if a fighter decides to dive the bomber cant chase him. fighters always have the upper hand.
if a bomber scares a fighter into diving away the bombers deserves a kill.
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 02:10:49 PM
you ping the crap out of a fighter and he decides to quit the fight and dive and you consider that ok. and yet you want to force bombers to fight to death even when they dont want to.
semp
I've pinged the crap out of BUFFs before and they landed. Fair is fair.
If the airplane is destroyed that's a kill. How it happens is not my concern.
You bail. Kill.
I shoot you down. Kill.
If you game the game by bailing at the sight of an enemy then you're a kill. Period.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 02:13:06 PM
if a bomber decides to dive to try to get some separation the fighter can actually chase him. if a fighter decides to dive the bomber cant chase him. fighters always have the upper hand.
if a bomber scares a fighter into diving away the bombers deserves a kill.
semp
Uhhhh, no.
If the bomber causes the pilot to bail he gets a kill.
If the fighter causes the bomber to bail he gets a kill.
Same rules for both sides.
Flying bombers vs fighters has its trade offs and vice versa. If my presence results in an abandoned aircraft I deserve the victory. That's how it was done in real life, too, and should be here.
BUFF drivers who bait guys only to bail just outside proxy range are no better than HQ griefers. It's frustrating, annoying, and hurts gameplay.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 02:16:27 PM
Not even close. If you can do damage to a bail and then he bails, you get the kill (how it works now). If you cannot damage the bomber, and he bails, then you do not get the kill (also how it works now).
Yes, there are fewer fighter kills now than there used to be. That does not mean you can redefine what a kill is.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 02:18:30 PM
Not even close. If you can do damage to a bail and then he bails, you get the kill (how it works now). If you cannot damage the bomber, and he bails, then you do not get the kill (also how it works now).
Yes, there are fewer fighter kills now than there used to be. That does not mean you can redefine what a kill is.
Nope. If the guy bails within 2.5K you get the kill but at 2.6K you don't. Both are caused by the same thing except the former is gaming the system to grief the guy who spent half an hour climbing up to him. Bad mechanics. Bad.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
I agree the way to reduce this issue would be to make it so that any bomber that bails is scored as a kill (or kills) to the nearest fighter in dot range, assuming another player hasn't already scored damage on that bomber. That takes away the "screw you" incentive, or at least reduces the time wasted by an interceptor if the bomber bails prior to him coming into dot range.
Nope. If the guy bails within 2.5K you get the kill but at 2.6K you don't. Both are caused by the same thing except the former is gaming the system to grief the guy who spent half an hour climbing up to him. Bad mechanics. Bad.
well if a fighter avoids me and runs to base to land if I am within 2.5 I want that kill.
semp
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 02:30:13 PM
Nope. If the guy bails within 2.5K you get the kill but at 2.6K you don't. Both are caused by the same thing except the former is gaming the system to grief the guy who spent half an hour climbing up to him. Bad mechanics. Bad.
This is also not true. I have been at 1.7k and not gotten the kill.
I consider the whining worse than what you call mechanics.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 02:31:18 PM
I also don't care. You are obviously more concerned with the BBS than you are any gaming you might, or might not do.
Someone has to pay taxes, my house won't get built on its own, and my boss' jet won't fly itself. I also have six converted AH2 skins to fix. That's not a fast process. YMMV.
Apologies to the OP for allowing the thread to be hijacked. :salute
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: guncrasher on December 31, 2016, 03:06:43 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 03:08:19 PM
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vulcan on December 31, 2016, 05:06:32 PM
Film and shame on the BBS.
Worked for me, I had a bailer: Cheyenne ; he denied it on chat. So I told him, well I've already posted the film on the BBS go have a look yourself. He lost the plot big time, raged at me on chat. It made me feel good :devil
Those in squads especially do not like being called out.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Bruv119 on December 31, 2016, 05:49:49 PM
+1 PUNISH THEM!!!
max out the manoeuvre kill range, doesn't appease the need to fill them full of lead but at least your time climbing/chasing up to them is rewarded.
Might lead to a few :headscratch: moments but at least you can then salute / call them yellow without having to consult a film. :D
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2016, 07:15:20 PM
You know this walks a very fine line. Punishing paying customers will make them quit if it appears to be driven by a lynch mob. And there is some lesser possibility a few of you might quit over this also. No one will win anything over this that is positive for the game. At the moment you do have paying customers who bail under a given set of circumstances. They probably stay and fight under other circumstances. If you make them quit the game, they will probably tell everyone they can for some time into the future to stay away from our game because it's populated with lynch mobs who live to punish paying customers for playing the game how they want for their $14.95.
Unless you simply enjoy punishing other people even if it means sinking the dingy keeping you afloat.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 07:28:30 PM
Punishing was probably meant in jest.
The fact is if you bail because a plane scared you then the guy who scared you scored a kill on you. It's common sense.
There are people who probably quit over being thwarted for HQ/radar griefing. I say it was worth the trade.
Bomb and bail used to be a minor nuisance. It is now becoming a constant aggravation, especially when numbers are low and fights are harder to find. People aren't going to keep paying to fly a thirty minute intercept only to game-gamed out of a kill.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: 100Coogn on December 31, 2016, 07:30:18 PM
Something tells me common sense is not going to work with this guy.
Coogan
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 07:36:34 PM
Nope. Much easier to let the fighter pilot quit than lose all of the bomber guys over this. Fighter pilots can always furball instead.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 07:52:18 PM
Something tells me common sense is not going to work with this guy.
Coogan
It's a plague my friend.
Reminds me of Brad Pitt's line... "Wackos everywhere. Plague of madness." - 12 Monkeys
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 07:52:53 PM
This last tour I was climbing out, in fighter mode, when one of my squaddies called for an M3. I bailed. The closest enemy was probably a full sector away.
In the Ta-152 I have over 200 kills since my last death. I don't know exactly (could easily be over 300), it's been years. When I fly that plane I intend to go to high alt, because a bombers only real defense against a fighter is altitude, and speed. At altitude they can out turn just about anything, except the 152. This tour a Lanc form climbed up to 25k, which is where I found him. I had bullets on him before he knew I was there. It messed up his bombing, and he tried to race home to a CV. It sucked for his country, because he gave his CV away. It sucked for him, because after I shot down his drones he dove hard for home and his last bomber broke up in the dive and only then did he bail out.
I dispute that bailing bombers are anything like a constant. If you really want bomber kills, then you need to just set up a patrol over AAA. You may still run into bailers, but more often than not you will get kills.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 07:53:59 PM
That's not the point. Refer to the OP.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 07:57:33 PM
No. I'm refusing to acknowledge your points. You are just wrong.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 08:00:12 PM
you do understand that a bail is consider a death right?
And just to be clear there is an achievement for bailing 'out of a perfectly good airplane,' so there should not be a global announcement about it. I bail out of goons all the time during resupply.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on December 31, 2016, 08:13:38 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on December 31, 2016, 08:23:09 PM
Nope. Much easier to let the fighter pilot quit than lose all of the bomber guys over this. Fighter pilots can always furball instead.
Would you really lose bomber pilots if they got a "Shot down" if they bail over enemy territory around fighters? I think not.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on January 01, 2017, 11:18:45 AM
No, you would lose bomber pilots if HTC programmed in "public shaming" as has been suggested. If you lock someone into the cockpit until you have had your way with them, then yes there will be those that either quit, or at least stop flying bombers. And, by the way, some people only fly bombers. If that becomes less fun for them, then yes they may just go off and quit. Mouse pilots are a prime example, because it's easier to gun. Even then, though, it is easy to get lost in the views and gun angles and once confusion sets in so does frustration.
I do everything I can to make every engagement with bombers authentic (as much like WWII as possible). There are a few pilots that see the setup coming (probably because they have run into me before) and just bail. I may not have found them until they are RTB, or miles from their primary target, but they still bail. So, I am familiar with the frustration from the other side. But, I also know that it means I won.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on January 01, 2017, 11:46:11 AM
I dispute that bailing bombers are anything like a constant. If you really want bomber kills, then you need to just set up a patrol over AAA. You may still run into bailers, but more often than not you will get kills.
Yeah nah... one week I decided to have a play with the 50mm cannon on the 410. I was doing buff patrols, I encountered quite of number of bomb and bailers I decided to start filming: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382661.0.html
Two things I noticed, many would climb to ridiculous altitudes - and once they dropped they'd bail. There were just as many that didn't (49ers always put up good fights). But if you start hunting the strat buffs it is very common.
iirc Cheyenne in particular belongs to a bomber specialist squad, and a few others I came across did too (Dickweed BG iirc) who bailed at the sight of a closing fighter.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 20, 2017, 10:05:49 AM
bump, still an issue.
Damage done should be wiped if you bail from your bombers for no reason right after bombing a target or atleast earn 0 perks or score for damage done.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on February 20, 2017, 10:09:57 AM
Give me the kill!!!
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: JVboob on February 21, 2017, 08:08:22 AM
Award three kills to the closest enemy within visual range.
Solved.
+1 it would happen to me alllll the time ill take the freebees
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: DubiousKB on February 21, 2017, 09:32:24 AM
.... Don't expect to hunt bombers if they have already dropped bombs... Their whole reason to exist is to get that bomb to target, not to provide you with a target....
When I hear these complaints I think of the guy who is playing this GAME all day with hordes of WWII statistics books scattered around crying over realism.. :old:
Also does that mean all lawn-dart jabo's need to have their damage removed after flying through radar, ords, or VH's? :furious Or pmaybe a rocket GV that spawns, shoots, "bails", and repeats? noooo...... :bolt:
No, just those guys who "troll" me by what I perceive is wasting my time..... I think having 4 red guys HO me one at a time, whilst I hold off on the trigger, should be punishable by the all-mighty HTC... But I don't get to dictate to other players what actions they take within the rules of the game are "punishable", and which are not based on my feelings....... :furious
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2017, 10:16:32 AM
Damage done should be wiped if you bail from your bombers for no reason right after bombing a target or atleast earn 0 perks or score for damage done.
What about if no enemy around? I bail out frequently in fighters because the enemies died or ran away. Why should I waste more time RTB? Suppose I have kills, do they get removed because I wanted to avoid further tedium? Is a bomber pilot doing these things any different?
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Wiley on February 21, 2017, 10:53:15 AM
What about if no enemy around? I bail out frequently in fighters because the enemies died or ran away. Why should I waste more time RTB? Suppose I have kills, do they get removed because I wanted to avoid further tedium? Is a bomber pilot doing these things any different?
If there's no enemy around, what's it matter? I'd say it should go to the closest enemy regardless of whether they're in sight or not, but that's just me.
I can't help but think what a glorious game it would be if everybody just bailed upon sight of the enemy if everything wasn't to their advantage. See even odds incoming in a fighter- bail. Ground ack is up when you come in to jabo- bail. Just give people x number of perks and points per hour for sitting in tower saving their planes.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2017, 10:57:54 AM
If there's no enemy around, what's it matter? I'd say it should go to the closest enemy regardless of whether they're in sight or not, but that's just me.
I can't help but think what a glorious game it would be if everybody just bailed upon sight of the enemy if everything wasn't to their advantage. See even odds incoming in a fighter- bail. Ground ack is up when you come in to jabo- bail. Just give people x number of perks and points per hour for sitting in tower saving their planes.
Wiley.
So the sissy that runs back to his base gets a proxy awarded because I don't take the time to rtb after he refuses to engage? Or somebody running supplies two bases over gets a proxy because he's the closest? That sounds like the mark of a great game feature. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 21, 2017, 10:59:00 AM
We should btw also punish those that attacks another fighter while having more than 500 ft alt advantage, those that vulch a fighter on the runway and those who extends more than 2k from a fight...
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Wiley on February 21, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
So the sissy that runs back to his base gets a proxy awarded because I don't take the time to rtb after he refuses to engage? That sounds like the mark of a great game feature. :rolleyes:
What difference does it make? Obviously you don't care about RTB. What's it matter what the other guy gets?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 21, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Also does that mean all lawn-dart jabo's need to have their damage removed after flying through radar, ords, or VH's? :furious Or pmaybe a rocket GV that spawns, shoots, "bails", and repeats?
Yes
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
And why does it matter to you that the bailer gets a death?
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zoney on February 21, 2017, 11:21:50 AM
Unless your plane is so damaged that it is not possible to RTB, the game should be programmed to encourage players to get their plane home. Anything else is just gamey. There are now systems in place that do encourage folks to complete their mission which includes RTB'n and landing safely on the runway. You get more perkies if you do. This discussion looks to be thoughts from players about raising the incentive to do just that. If rewarding the kill to the nearest enemy cause players to more likely RTB, then it would have the desired effect.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zoney on February 21, 2017, 11:23:28 AM
Maybe this subject would be less contentious if it were labeled as "Reward players for RTB'n and landing safely".
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 21, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
I can understand that people bail after bombing strats, it can be a very long flight home and people wants to do more fun stuff instead. But i dont get why people are so afraid of being intercepted, that's part of the fun with flying bombers and in heavies like the B-17 its rare to loose all 3 planes without getting any kills. A decent bomber pilot can easily get a 1:1 k/d ratio in a B-17 and a really good bomber pilot, like Havermyr, can get a 2:1 k/d ratio so bombers are by no mean free kills if the bomber pilots decides to fight for it..
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Wiley on February 21, 2017, 11:36:28 AM
And why does it matter to you that the bailer gets a death?
You sure HTC's rules agree with that? If you're bailing in enemy territory you already get captured. You can bail, but you lose out on style points for landing, why shouldn't it count as a death?
Because it's the same as if every plane that came into icon range of you saw you and bailed. It's cheesy, I may as well get the kill for it. My presence caused him to destroy his plane.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Becinhu on February 21, 2017, 12:33:11 PM
If we are going to punish players then I think any player that lifts and then circles in ack or runs to ack should have a timer pop up for the entire time they are in the ack. At the end of their sortie that total is deducted from their total perk points for whatever mode they upped their plane or gv in. Let the whining commence!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 21, 2017, 02:08:34 PM
How would that do any good? It would just lead to more man acks and wirbs instead of people upping fighters since they no longer can use the base ack for protection against the horde....
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: bustr on February 21, 2017, 03:19:45 PM
Once the punishments start, how many subscriptions do you gents project will walk out the door with the punishments?
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on February 21, 2017, 03:26:33 PM
Once the punishments start, how many subscriptions do you gents project will walk out the door with the punishments?
Awarding proxy kills to the guy in vis range:
Subscribers Lost - 0
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Becinhu on February 21, 2017, 03:36:34 PM
In case the sarcasm was missed I was being extremely sarcastic. Punishing people you bail is not an intelligent option
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Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: lunatic1 on February 22, 2017, 03:57:30 AM
This question has been brought up more than once I think---and I may have said this then--a player pays to play this game his/her way. making a player play your way is not a good idea. if a fighter extends and bails before you get close enough for you to kill him/her or a player ditch's before you finish them off, should they be penalized, I think not, so why should a player get punished for bailing their bombers, sure a lot of fighter pilots get ticked, climbing to 25-30k too engage bombers and they bail BP's prerogative. if you haven't noticed a lot of the new players like to fly bombers first, if you want to lose Players, go ahead and set some kind of punishment. just remember AH3 is pay to play.
a player--fighter pilot bomber pilot or gv'er still get's point's if they did damage, maybe not as may as if they landed they just don't get their name in lights-some people do some don't.. even if they get shot down if they did damage they still get points.
it doesn't bother me nor do I care if a bomber pilot bails. and I'm going to say it again: A PLAYER PAYS TO PLAY.
sorry haggerty my thoughts. :frown:
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on February 22, 2017, 04:40:36 AM
You know............if you bail in vis range the other guy should get a kill.
SIMPLE!
This is how it was done IRL, btw, as well as in Brand X. Nobody complained.
If I am chasing some BUFF driver three sectors and he bails at 2.6K so I CAN'T get a kill..............that's okay? But if I get a kill when he does that you are saying that (is wrong and) will chase away players?
Aye aye aye guys, come on.
If you bail because you see me coming that's NOT a kill? WTFO?
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: DubiousKB on February 22, 2017, 09:05:48 AM
If I am chasing some BUFF driver three sectors and he bails at 2.6K so I CAN'T get a kill..............that's okay? But if I get a kill when he does that you are saying that (is wrong and) will chase away players?
Aye aye aye guys, come on.
Keep in mind if it was one buff and not "3 kills", would you still chase'em "3 sectors"? ... ... . .. .. Guys guys guys, I have solution! Would each country kindly place the following sign at their HQ?
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: DubiousKB on February 22, 2017, 09:10:45 AM
Where exactly is each country's safe space for when other players make them feel bad.... :devil
I should go there as other players HO'd me. OH and some b17's last night shoulda felt my wrath, but I crashed into them due to latency, bad joystick, poor SA, a hangnail, and most importantly, because HTC and Skuzzy don't like Canadian syrup.... :x
Griefers gonna Grief. (we actually have it pretty good in our game environment for that particular set of "new-age" skillz in gaming)
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Vraciu on February 22, 2017, 08:23:36 PM
Keep in mind if it was one buff and not "3 kills", would you still chase'em "3 sectors"?
Yes. And I want the kill when the banana bails at 2.6 to grief me instead of 2.5. He is bailing because I am there. I am the reason he destroyed his aircraft. Give me the bleeping victory.
Frankly, the only reason why it isn't that way here is because that's the way it was in Warbirds, and gawd forbid we be like them in any way...
Yes I said "WAY" three times in one sentence. Proximity rule violation. Apologies to Maj. Chapman (USMC, F-4s Vietnam).
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Chalenge on February 24, 2017, 02:39:34 AM
As much as it would inflate my stats when I fly at high altitude, I am not in favor of this because there will never exist a range limit that will satisfy everyone. And, frankly speaking, that is all it would ever be to anyone. Your stats are either ultimately important, or they are not. I think there should be another solution.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Oldman731 on February 24, 2017, 06:54:27 AM
As much as it would inflate my stats when I fly at high altitude, I am not in favor of this because there will never exist a range limit that will satisfy everyone. And, frankly speaking, that is all it would ever be to anyone. Your stats are either ultimately important, or they are not. I think there should be another solution.
There already is a range that satisfies no one except the griefer.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 24, 2017, 01:48:45 PM
As much as it would inflate my stats when I fly at high altitude, I am not in favor of this because there will never exist a range limit that will satisfy everyone. And, frankly speaking, that is all it would ever be to anyone. Your stats are either ultimately important, or they are not. I think there should be another solution.
Visual range would satisfy me, most bomber bailers dont bail until they realize that you have found them. As long as they bail before you get to 2.5k out they know they can still tower without granting any kills.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: JVboob on February 25, 2017, 09:35:41 PM
I can understand that people bail after bombing strats, it can be a very long flight home and people wants to do more fun stuff instead. But i dont get why people are so afraid of being intercepted, that's part of the fun with flying bombers and in heavies like the B-17 its rare to loose all 3 planes without getting any kills. A decent bomber pilot can easily get a 1:1 k/d ratio in a B-17 and a really good bomber pilot, like Havermyr, can get a 2:1 k/d ratio so bombers are by no mean free kills if the bomber pilots decides to fight for it..
havermyr? lol 999000 though thats a shootin dude in buffs
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: caldera on February 25, 2017, 09:45:53 PM
Visual range would satisfy me, most bomber bailers dont bail until they realize that you have found them. As long as they bail before you get to 2.5k out they know they can still tower without granting any kills.
Yeah, five minutes after it is changed (if that happened) someone would want it changed to something else.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 26, 2017, 05:05:56 AM
Yeah, five minutes after it is changed (if that happened) someone would want it changed to something else.
Atleast the majority would be happy with the logical change
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 26, 2017, 05:13:48 AM
I see no reason to why we should give away free kills, the only thing that it would change is that you got a nicer number on you score board. But hovering within icon range of bombers and hope that they bail isnt going to improve the game.
Up and intercept the strat runners before they reach their target, if he then choose to bail then mission accomplished..
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 26, 2017, 05:18:16 AM
They arent free if you spent the time to get to him. Its not always possible to get to the runners before they drop, we need better maps for that. There is no incentive for the players to get back to base, none of them are going to be winning the bomber of the month award because they arent in single mossies. If we arent going to grant kills to the people making these guys bail we need to make more incentive to return to base after a drop.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 26, 2017, 05:22:22 AM
Then i want to be awarded a kill for every La that runs from my Brewster, i put up a lot of effort and they are denying me the chance to kill them...
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 26, 2017, 05:29:59 AM
Your analogy is no where near relevent. The LA is using his plane's advantage to survive the fight. If he bailed to survive then you should be granted a kill. Bombers use their abilities to avoid me killing them all the time, flying over 30k ft makes it extremely hard to get guns on target if they do any maneuver.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: Zimme83 on February 26, 2017, 05:44:05 AM
But i dont want them to do that so i demand that Hitec change the game so that it fits me...
If the proxy range is changed to icon range then the bailers will bail before you get within icon range, but it will prob also lead to that people starts to fly within icon range of a fight hoping to get proxies to pad their scores..
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: haggerty on February 26, 2017, 06:00:56 AM
Proxy kills dont help your score, only hurts the person dieing. And it isnt a demand its a wishlist for a logical request. Being granted kills for people that run isnt logical.
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: RODBUSTR on February 26, 2017, 07:12:50 AM
go off screen, plane go BOOOOOMMMMM,
Title: Re: Punish bailers
Post by: JunkyII on February 26, 2017, 10:58:29 AM
Awarding the fighter a kill within visual range will
A. Give the interceptor at least something for their efforts
B. Deter some of the bailers so they actually fight the interceptors
C. Not do anything for the griefer that's bailing to bail.
People have brought up it will chase away bomber pilots who do this...GOOD it is a form of griefing if they are doing it maliciously like some of you defending them say so good riddance if they leave...all the noticeable BOMBER pilots don't do this so saying a change like this would scare them away is just silly and a stretch just to try to be right...which you are wrong.
The real and only against change to this issue is that HTC is working on something else which can be used in ANY argument just like slippery slope so it's an invalid argument in any discussion.
Bailing within icon visual while still in the air without damage goes to the nearest plane in ANY situation....that should be simple for people to understand and not a big deal like some of you are making it out to be.