Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bruv119 on January 25, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
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we were discussing eny on squad channel the other night and whilst it doesnt bother many of us we did agree that certain planes and vehicles could do with a change.
tu2 is 20 needs to be more like 10
spit 14 needs to be raised to match the 109 k4
m4 with rockets is the most popular gv to raid towns with lower it to 10.
ki84 needs lowering to 10 or 15.
im sure there are many more that need tweaking but the above is a start especially the m4 as it can kill towns way to fast.
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oh and in a weird way eny is also increasing the use of m3 town resupply. during the day when bish have 29 eny for awhile they cant up anything useful so the extra players are all waiting to resupply any attacks.
remove resupply option to towns only. fights cant get started when the field is safe before the battle even gets interesting.
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Yak3 .... the damage model deserve a perk of 5, rest of it ENY10.
Agree spit14 should be higher, maybe 10, they still have 2*.50 cal and 2 Hispanos instead of a basketball-throwing 30mm.
B26, take more damage than b17s for some reason.
3-gun LA-7 1 perk, simply the best non-perked fighter in melee arena altitudes.
2-gun LA-7 ENY 5.
Switch 190a5 and 190a8- ENY - the 190a5 always have better k/d and can even turn, and better general performance.
Dora with its speed should probably be ENY 10.
Ki84 lack speed to be at 10, maybe 15
Wirby, well if you cant get kills in that, I don't know what you would get kills in....
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Only problem I have with your list is with the M4....with the rockets it is definitely a town killing menace but remove those and it's the worst tank in the game.
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Is the M3 resupply option for towns really about helping your side that just captured a field defend the place by getting the town up quicker if someone wants to spend the time? And over time that has been abused to game the system?
If it was removed and towns were at the mercy of the rebuild system, can a town rebuild be forced to take hours allowing for a single airfield to consume the efforts of a country all night during prime time? Without the hoard numbers anymore to keep initiatives going against the other countries, is this eventually going to bore people having to spend all prime time defending a single field because the rebuild mechanism can be kept retarded all evening by a small dedicated number of players? Assuming the rebuild mechanism is part of a strat target.
So many things are tied together in this game like domino's and taking one out of the line without understanding the pattern for the whole line of domino's is one of those unintended consequence things Hitech has brought up constantly over the years.
I wonder if your definition of M3's abusing the system equals his definition that M3's provide a force leverage for the out numbered. Still it is irritating as heck to be in a giant two field furball when two dorks take you furball base out from under you with an M4 and an M3 while you were in the extacy of furryballing.....
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Is the M3 resupply option for towns really about helping your side that just captured a field defend the place by getting the town up quicker if someone wants to spend the time? And over time that has been abused to game the system?
If it was removed and towns were at the mercy of the rebuild system, can a town rebuild be forced to take hours allowing for a single airfield to consume the efforts of a country all night during prime time? Without the hoard numbers anymore to keep initiatives going against the other countries, is this eventually going to bore people having to spend all prime time defending a single field because the rebuild mechanism can be kept retarded all evening by a small dedicated number of players? Assuming the rebuild mechanism is part of a strat target.
So many things are tied together in this game like domino's and taking one out of the line without understanding the pattern for the whole line of domino's is one of those unintended consequence things Hitech has brought up constantly over the years.
I wonder if your definition of M3's abusing the system equals his definition that M3's provide a force leverage for the out numbered. Still it is irritating as heck to be in a giant two field furball when two dorks take you furball base out from under you with an M4 and an M3 while you were in the extacy of furryballing.....
Town Resupply makes defense too easy
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I never kept up on M3's and resupply functions over the years. Was Hitech's original reason pure defensive to help hang on to a just captured field then evolved into keeping your whole country healthy or was it both as the single over arching purpose?
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Sometimes resupplying town is the only way a few players can stop a horde from taking their base.
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Sometimes resupplying town is the only way a few players can stop a horde from taking their base.
I think the field capture game should be viewed as a mechanism to promote combat and players resupplying a town rather than defending it with a GVs or planes makes for boring gameplay for both defenders and attackers. The town resupply should be at least toned down to the point where upping a tank or fighter is a more effective way of defending the base. If a few players want to slow down a horde they should be porking the nearby fields' ordnance or troops.
Generally though, in AH quantity has a quality all its own. Players are always going to gang up either in individual combat or for field capture because its an easy way to win and the game offers no reward/penalty for behaving differently.
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I think the field capture game should be viewed as a mechanism to promote combat and players resupplying a town rather than defending it with a GVs or planes makes for boring gameplay for both defenders and attackers. The town resupply should be at least toned down to the point where upping a tank or fighter is a more effective way of defending the base. If a few players want to slow down a horde they should be porking the nearby fields' ordnance or troops.
Generally though, in AH quantity has a quality all its own. Players are always going to gang up either in individual combat or for field capture because its an easy way to win and the game offers no reward/penalty for behaving differently.
The problem is Greebo during a side imbalance or horde attack, a resupply is the only chance you have to save a town with just a few minutes to take some sort of action. Upping a fighter to be shot down before gear up or driving a tank for a long run to town will not do any good.
If you water down M3 supply then the maps will flip over on a daily basis. As you known there just is not that many maps.
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I'd rather the horde take the base than have players removed from combat ferrying supplies. Those ferrying players could be upping planes or GVs instead, from remote bases or SPs if the base is capped. If players wanting a fight log in and see other players attempting to defend the base they might be tempted to join in, if they see no defence because everyone is ferrying they'll go elsewhere on the map or even log. Also players taking out ord and troops would slow the horde down but still be able to fight afterwards or if intercepted.
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I'd rather the horde take the base than have players removed from combat ferrying supplies. Those ferrying players could be upping planes or GVs instead, from remote bases or SPs if the base is capped. If players wanting a fight log in and see other players attempting to defend the base they might be tempted to join in, if they see no defence because everyone is ferrying they'll go elsewhere on the map or even log. Also players taking out ord and troops would slow the horde down but still be able to fight afterwards or if intercepted.
Taking out troops also prevents resupply from that base. Just sayin....
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Taking out troops also prevents resupply from that base. Just sayin....
Yes but resupplying them and resupplying a town after they are back up is faster then dropping them....it's also a strong indicator of where an attack is going which should give the defense enough warning to up so they already have tanks in town and fighters up to intercept incoming bombers and Attack aircraft.
I don't know why people are still debating against this because
A. It's obviously a better tactic then upping a fighter or tank in a lot of cases...which shouldn't be the answer to promote combat.....defense should be met with an actual counter...I Bombers should be met with fighters or 88s...Jabbos met with fighters or whirbs...tanks met with tanks or tank busters.
B. Nerfing town supply won't remove the feature....just make it so it's not the go to defense which will promote more combat over bases.
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I'd rather the horde take the base than have players removed from combat ferrying supplies. Those ferrying players could be upping planes or GVs instead, from remote bases or SPs if the base is capped. If players wanting a fight log in and see other players attempting to defend the base they might be tempted to join in, if they see no defence because everyone is ferrying they'll go elsewhere on the map or even log. Also players taking out ord and troops would slow the horde down but still be able to fight afterwards or if intercepted.
Nailed it.
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Yes but resupplying them and resupplying a town after they are back up is faster then dropping them....it's also a strong indicator of where an attack is going which should give the defense enough warning to up so they already have tanks in town and fighters up to intercept incoming bombers and Attack aircraft.
Regarding dropping troops at adjacent bases: So what you're saying above is, dropping the troops may motivate the enemy to be ready to defend, and that's a bad thing. Isn't that kind of against the point of your entire crusade?
Wiley.
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^^ He said "crusade" ^^
hehehe
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Regarding dropping troops at adjacent bases: So what you're saying above is, dropping the troops may motivate the enemy to be ready to defend, and that's a bad thing. Isn't that kind of against the point of your entire crusade?
Wiley.
No it should give an indication of where an attack is going so the argument that resupply is sometimes the only option is just wrong....with that earlier insight that an attack is probably coming they should be able to up porkers, high cap and a tank defense in town.
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^^ He said "crusade" ^^
hehehe
Feels like a crusade...been trying to get it changed for years without any real good reason as to why not and everyone that has come up I've supplied a counter. The only one I can't counter was the "Wish Not granted" from HI tech himself...which had zero reasoning why not.
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Feels like a crusade...been trying to get it changed for years without any real good reason as to why not and everyone that has come up I've supplied a counter. The only one I can't counter was the "Wish Not granted" from HI tech himself...which had zero reasoning why not.
...I'd hazard a guess that's more or less because no matter what he says, all he sees is an endless string of "Yeah buts" in the future if he says anything.
I don't think resupply is what it should be either, but flogging your point ad nauseum isn't going to accomplish anything. You've made your points, the guy who makes the decision said "No." What in your entire experience with the man would indicate belaboring the point would accomplish anything?
Wiley.
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I think the field capture game should be viewed as a mechanism to promote combat and players resupplying a town rather than defending it with a GVs or planes makes for boring gameplay for both defenders and attackers. The town resupply should be at least toned down to the point where upping a tank or fighter is a more effective way of defending the base. If a few players want to slow down a horde they should be porking the nearby fields' ordnance or troops.
At one time wasn't the M3 less effective per trip to the town and the nature of how the town responded to supplies toned back? I'm thinking the transition to the last town we had from the old AH1 object. Hitech had to tweek the "town down" percentage down to 20% because the spread out buildings thwarted our hoards at the time too much. I thought it was some years into that town type and strat down time issues that he increased the M3's resupply impact to address how fast bases could be taken because of the strat.
Our new town reminds me of the AH1 object in how closely packed the buildings are. If he dialed back the M3's impact specifically to resupplying the town, wouldn't he proportionally tweek the town percentage down for capture value? His statements over the years about new troop delivery rides that can carry 15-24 troops has always been, he would require 15-24 troops to capture the town to maintain proportionality.
So the current proportionality is off without the hoards it was adjusted for. By the way, with the new more densely packed town, how much faster do we get it down versus the previous object? Remember with the AH1 object players had become experts with lancs at completely dropping it in two passes.
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At one time wasn't the M3 less effective per trip to the town and the nature of how the town responded to supplies toned back? I'm thinking the transition to the last town we had from the old AH1 object. Hitech had to tweek the "town down" percentage down to 20% because the spread out buildings thwarted our hoards at the time too much. I thought it was some years into that town type and strat down time issues that he increased the M3's resupply impact to address how fast bases could be taken because of the strat.
Our new town reminds me of the AH1 object in how closely packed the buildings are. If he dialed back the M3's impact specifically to resupplying the town, wouldn't he proportionally tweek the town percentage down for capture value? His statements over the years about new troop delivery rides that can carry 15-24 troops has always been, he would require 15-24 troops to capture the town to maintain proportionality.
So the current proportionality is off without the hoards it was adjusted for. By the way, with the new more densely packed town, how much faster do we get it down versus the previous object? Remember with the AH1 object players had become experts with lancs at completely dropping it in two passes.
In AH3 I can't do this all the time, but I have Wfluffied a town with 2 passes with a TU2 and 1 pass with a Lanc. Taking down town seems a bit to easy in AH3 in my opinion.
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In AH3 I can't do this all the time, but I have Wfluffied a town with 2 passes with a TU2 and 1 pass with a Lanc. Taking down town seems a bit to easy in AH3 in my opinion.
I disagree...an M4 with rockets with the heavy HE light AP used to be able to take out town alone...now you have to use all HE w/ rockets.
...I'd hazard a guess that's more or less because no matter what he says, all he sees is an endless string of "Yeah buts" in the future if he says anything.
I don't think resupply is what it should be either, but flogging your point ad nauseum isn't going to accomplish anything. You've made your points, the guy who makes the decision said "No." What in your entire experience with the man would indicate belaboring the point would accomplish anything?
Wiley.
Because of a comment he made during the 12 hour scenario saying that we know more about actual MA gameplay.
At one time wasn't the M3 less effective per trip to the town and the nature of how the town responded to supplies toned back? I'm thinking the transition to the last town we had from the old AH1 object. Hitech had to tweek the "town down" percentage down to 20% because the spread out buildings thwarted our hoards at the time too much. I thought it was some years into that town type and strat down time issues that he increased the M3's resupply impact to address how fast bases could be taken because of the strat.
Our new town reminds me of the AH1 object in how closely packed the buildings are. If he dialed back the M3's impact specifically to resupplying the town, wouldn't he proportionally tweek the town percentage down for capture value? His statements over the years about new troop delivery rides that can carry 15-24 troops has always been, he would require 15-24 troops to capture the town to maintain proportionality.
So the current proportionality is off without the hoards it was adjusted for. By the way, with the new more densely packed town, how much faster do we get it down versus the previous object? Remember with the AH1 object players had become experts with lancs at completely dropping it in two passes.
Hordes are still very much in the game....thinking that we are only experiencing issues in gameplay because they are not around is just not true. Plus this issue was a thing back when we still saw 300+ numbers in the MA....it was not as often an issue but it still did kill fights....now it doesn't let fights happen often times.
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Hoardes happens to all teams, and all teams take part in them.
It doesnt give justification to the easymode m3 defense. This mentality shows quite a bit in the current ability of most MA players. They can resupply with the best of them, but sure are scared to fight.
You are witnessing the product of current settings and how people are adapting to them.
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Back on topic though, the planeset does need an update to the ENY.
The planes mentioned above are top candidates.
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When a town is 20% down with all ack destroyed, how much do the first three M3 on sight repair with their supplies? I think the current strat M3 relationship is working after the 49er abuse of that process.
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What I would change and why:
F4U-1A current ENY is 12 but should be 10 or even 8. Probably the best and most versatile fighter in the game.
190- F8 current ENY is 25 but should be 30. The worst performing variant with the smallest gun package and rockets that are difficult to use against GVs.
190-D9 current ENY is 12 but should be 8 or lower. Uber pick and run machine.
Ki-84 current ENY is 20 but should be 12. This is a monster turn fighter that also excels at GV busting.
P-38J current ENY is 20 but should be 15. The P-38L has nearly identical performance with the only difference being better rockets and has an ENY of 12. An 8 point difference is a lot for rockets.
P-47D11 current ENY is 35 but should be 30. Just too good to be lumped in with planes like the P-39Q.
Spit 9 current ENY is 20 but should be 15. Superior to the Seafire, which has a 15 ENY.
Yak-3 current ENY is 18 but should be 10. Late war monster with damage absorption comparable to the B-17.
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What I would change and why:
F4U-1A current ENY is 12 but should be 10 or even 8. Probably the best and most versatile fighter in the game.
190- F8 current ENY is 25 but should be 30. The worst performing variant with the smallest gun package and rockets that are difficult to use against GVs.
190-D9 current ENY is 12 but should be 8 or lower. Uber pick and run machine.
Ki-84 current ENY is 20 but should be 12. This is a monster turn fighter that also excels at GV busting.
P-38J current ENY is 20 but should be 15. The P-38L has nearly identical performance with the only difference being better rockets and has an ENY of 12. An 8 point difference is a lot for rockets.
P-47D11 current ENY is 35 but should be 30. Just too good to be lumped in with planes like the P-39Q.
Spit 9 current ENY is 20 but should be 15. Superior to the Seafire, which has a 15 ENY.
Yak-3 current ENY is 18 but should be 10. Late war monster with damage absorption comparable to the B-17.
Great suggestions here
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Even if you get half of this list's ENY change, the M3 issue will still keep you from getting people to fight.
Players always find what is easy and works to avoid risk and effort. I've been trying to get you guys to build a picture of the M3 and a time line of how it has affected town captures and defense. You could have started with this list 2 months ago in a civilized manner and gotten some of it from Hitech by now. Still in all of the lynch mobery of Hitech, one thing kept standing out that was a big contributor to your problems even during ENY.
What players were choosing to do when they had to defend from your looking for a fight.
So now you have two things that may well alleviate some of your problems and you quickly hop on the sexy one concerning rides because it's the easy thing. The M3 is messy because it takes effort to identify why it's role in the game needs tweeking and showing how that is necessary in the light of the current ENY problems to Hitech. It's like crafting grants and contracts, the big parts are simple and make everyone feel good. It's the fine print and small parts nested deep in that screw you because they have the real power affecting you.
Junky was ignored because he has been yelling about the M3 for along time and he picked fights with Hitech over it. We all tend to ignore issues like that when even the dead horse is a grease stain in the road. But, as some of you have been trying to dismantle ENY and the whole process to take a look under the hood, the M3 and it's impact on the community kept cropping up.
Players would rather sneak around in M3's because the bang for the buck is often bigger watching you guys scream on 200 than man to man beating you in the air face to face. This list is nice but, it won't entice any of them to hop in planes and fight you as long as an M3 can do so much for so little effort.
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The fix is simple bustr. If the city strat is 100% then 30minute downtimes cant be supplied same goes for Ack.
If the strat is hit and downtime of a town building is 60minutes then let them resupply. Then it is sort of working as intended.
You have to think I play off hours mainly the strats are nearly always up and 30 minutes is the norm. 2 guys get it backup before a set of bombers can get half way home. Hence why most will bail because it is impossible to get the field otherwise.
OR
remove all the extra information dt commands, flags etc and make people TAKE OFF and LOOK!
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And during prime time when you are not here and 200 are, is this let them eat dirt because it's not your playtime?
This is another aspect of ENY that makes things hard to sell. From your experience during low numbers late night just the bare bones function would work. From Junky's late night experience the M3 is the single most destructive element to good game play he can identify. Then both of you try to sell it to Hitech without showing how time of day and population numbers is effected by your observations. Lusche was good at that when he wanted something. And each member of the lynch mob joins in thinking it's one more documented indignity heaped on them by Hitech not caring about their own personal time of day indignities. And pretty soon you have a propaganda narrative that feeds itself and keeps those already indignant supplied with their ongoing indignity fix.
None of you at that point are interested in deconstructing anything in any sense that might interest Hitech. You fall back on throwing out quick fixes that aren't much more than no fix in the face of the problem. They are mostly changes for the sake of changing something because a group of players is unhappy and worked themselves into a tizzy once again over 14 years.
You could have talked to Hitech about the change in ENY scoring for rides two months ago, and by keeping the conversation none combatively alive over that time, probably gotten some of them changed with out going into lynch mob mode for all of that time.
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So basically you guys want to make ENY even more of a nuisance, am I correct?
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I definitely agree with this post. Add in the 190D to 6 Eny aswell. It's too much of a nuisance and crutch ride IMO. I do think the ki84 and perhaps the yak 3 should be 8 or so. The spit16 and La7 should be perked. These types of planes make flying slower higher Eny planes not fun. They roll off a base, track you down at warp speed, so him and the boys can gang you. If there is more of an emphisis for players to fly mid war planes, the fights would be much more fun!!
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So basically you guys want to make ENY even more of a nuisance, am I correct?
No I think ENY needs to be changed and those planes Caldera listed should have their ENY looked at.
And during prime time when you are not here and 200 are, is this let them eat dirt because it's not your playtime?
This is another aspect of ENY that makes things hard to sell. From your experience during low numbers late night just the bare bones function would work. From Junky's late night experience the M3 is the single most destructive element to good game play he can identify. Then both of you try to sell it to Hitech without showing how time of day and population numbers is effected by your observations. Lusche was good at that when he wanted something. And each member of the lynch mob joins in thinking it's one more documented indignity heaped on them by Hitech not caring about their own personal time of day indignities. And pretty soon you have a propaganda narrative that feeds itself and keeps those already indignant supplied with their ongoing indignity fix.
None of you at that point are interested in deconstructing anything in any sense that might interest Hitech. You fall back on throwing out quick fixes that aren't much more than no fix in the face of the problem. They are mostly changes for the sake of changing something because a group of players is unhappy and worked themselves into a tizzy once again over 14 years.
You could have talked to Hitech about the change in ENY scoring for rides two months ago, and by keeping the conversation none combatively alive over that time, probably gotten some of them changed with out going into lynch mob mode for all of that time.
Change in planes ENY gets brought up about every 2 months so I wouldn't be surprised if you looked back and found a thread about changing ENY....actually I think I started one within the past 12 months mainly because the KI84 shouldn't be a higher ENY then the K4...Plane vs Plane in MA alts the KI84 is winning every time.
You act like we got our pitch forks out....a lot of things been asked for and discussed....and after that discussion I feel like we're absolutely right because of the reasons why not to just aren't good...most of which can be attached to any possible change to the game(For M3 resupply)...I don't need to make a Snail chart to be able to say with 100% certainty that it's faster to resupply a town then it is to drop one.
I definitely agree with this post. Add in the 190D to 6 Eny aswell. It's too much of a nuisance and crutch ride IMO. I do think the ki84 and perhaps the yak 3 should be 8 or so. The spit16 and La7 should be perked. These types of planes make flying slower higher Eny planes not fun. They roll off a base, track you down at warp speed, so him and the boys can gang you. If there is more of an emphisis for players to fly mid war planes, the fights would be much more fun!!
I disagree with perking anymore planes or tanks...I think all of them are fine right where they are.
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I can not figure out why a few of you think the M3 is the villain. I captured more bases last tour than most. It is a simple matter of coordination to beat the m3 resupply if an imbalance is not the issue.
The buzsaw map is a perfect example of the problem is with the strats. During the imbalance hours the starts get pounded. A single 190 comes in and deacks a V base or town or airfield. Now a player has to sit there doing nothing guarding the base or town. Guns are down for 2 hours.
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The 190D can do ONE thing better than most planes, they can reset a fight by excelleing running/maneuverability at 400mph+ speed, in short : its a great one-trick-plane : Boom-zoomer
Turnfight with it, and you probably lose against La7,yak3,P51d', climb and you soon have a K4 or spit14 sticking out of your derriére.
They cannot energyfight with the best at different speeds, they can turn with a fraction of them, keep E lousy in turns.
They can probably earn a ENY10, not less.
About the Fw190F, its one of the best deacker in game, nothing else except dive abilites is good about it.
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we were discussing eny on squad channel the other night and whilst it doesnt bother many of us we did agree that certain planes and vehicles could do with a change.
tu2 is 20 needs to be more like 10
spit 14 needs to be raised to match the 109 k4
m4 with rockets is the most popular gv to raid towns with lower it to 10.
ki84 needs lowering to 10 or 15.
im sure there are many more that need tweaking but the above is a start especially the m4 as it can kill towns way to fast.
Agree on all and wants to add:
Yak-3 and -9U should be lowered to 10 and 15 respectively.
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If we are talking only plane vs plane the Fw190a8 should have ENY 35, however many vs many it's different thing.
No I think ENY needs to be changed and those planes Caldera listed should have their ENY looked at.
Change in planes ENY gets brought up about every 2 months so I wouldn't be surprised if you looked back and found a thread about changing ENY....actually I think I started one within the past 12 months mainly because the KI84 shouldn't be a higher ENY then the K4...Plane vs Plane in MA alts the KI84 is winning every time.
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The A8 is junk should be 30+ for sure.
I only see odd people fly them in the MA.
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The A8 is junk should be 30+ for sure.
I only see odd people fly them in the MA.
:confused: :confused: :uhoh :uhoh :bolt:
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If we are talking only plane vs plane the Fw190a8 should have ENY 35, however many vs many it's different thing.
I would say they are in a different class the the A8...they are more fighter interceptor where the A8 is more ground attack/ bomber killer so you would have to compare it to others like the P47s and Mossy
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The 190D can do ONE thing better than most planes, they can reset a fight by excelleing running/maneuverability at 400mph+ speed, in short : its a great one-trick-plane : Boom-zoomer
Turnfight with it, and you probably lose against La7,yak3,P51d', climb and you soon have a K4 or spit14 sticking out of your derriére.
They cannot energyfight with the best at different speeds, they can turn with a fraction of them, keep E lousy in turns.
They can probably earn a ENY10, not less.
About the Fw190F, its one of the best deacker in game, nothing else except dive abilites is good about it.
Ahh, but the one trick boom n zoomer E natural, is the absolute best advantage a plane can have. The guns are the second. That's why the Temp is so deadly in AH, and I proved it. Thats why they made planes faster and not planes that can turn better in real life. Escaping the cons is a life or death situation. Thats why I think Jet fighter combat is boring compared to WW2 fighter combat. Secondly, it creates "no skill run to ack" game play because the plane cannot out turn most planes. This leaves the only option in the defense to excel away and "reset the fight", it creates lackadaisical game play because players don't have to use defensive maneuvers to escape a combat situation. When there are many players who fly the 190D into furballs it creates timid game play and alt monkeys because everyone has to fly the fastest plane to compete. It creates a "jet combat" atmosphere. The temp doesn't turn as well as the 190D, but that actually gives it an advantage because they can excel away from better turning planes and it doesn't matter. The realisation is that this type of flying is very boring because you can't simply "outturn" regular fighters like you can in your favorite fighter. The 190D has a great overall k/d, but most people die because they aren't patient enough to keep flying straight.
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The A8 is junk should be 30+ for sure.
I only see odd people fly them in the MA.
They are all creeps. Trust me :old:
I would say they are in a different class the the A8...they are more fighter interceptor where the A8 is more ground attack/ bomber killer so you would have to compare it to others like the P47s and Mossy
The A8 is an easy kill against both in a 1vs1. The only 190 that pose a real danger to a mosquito at low alt is the A5. The D9 can at least save its hide by running and coming back with an advatage against the bored mosquito. If it slows down to fight, it dies.
Many on many, the 190s get exponentially better. In a squadron the A8 can be very successful even against the top late war fighters. D9s become a real pain in the ass.
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The temp doesn't turn as well as the 190D,
Both with no flaps as well as full flaps the Tempest's turn radius is smaller and turn rate is higher.
In my time I would not try a flat turn contest against a Temp in the D-9, but the other way around I absolutely would. The 190D pilot would be advised to make the best out of his significant roll rate advantage.
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So how does ENY relate to MA usage among non perk planes. Let the free market decide the appropriate ENY and update it every quarter to make flying the less used and probably less capable / more challenging planes more enticing...
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Both with no flaps as well as full flaps the Tempest's turn radius is smaller and turn rate is higher.
In my time I would not try a flat turn contest against a Temp in the D-9, but the other way around I absolutely would. The 190D pilot would be advised to make the best out of his significant roll rate advantage.
Well, I'd say the temp is much heavier and Less agile, which means it loses speed much more quickly. Off the gun the temp may have the advantage with E utilization in the emmilman, but if the fight got slower, I actually think the 190D would be better despite statistical charts. It's much more agile at slower speeds with the rollrate. I wouldn't mind taking this fight to the DA to see how it turns out for fun, as I don't know if I've ever had that fight before. I'm just basing my reasoning off feel and experience.
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They are all creeps. Trust me :old:
The A8 is an easy kill against both in a 1vs1. The only 190 that pose a real danger to a mosquito at low alt is the A5. The D9 can at least save its hide by running and coming back with an advatage against the bored mosquito. If it slows down to fight, it dies.
Many on many, the 190s get exponentially better. In a squadron the A8 can be very successful even against the top late war fighters. D9s become a real pain in the ass.
I'd agree that a mossy will kill an A8 but I'm talking about comparing them at ground attack and bomber killing...the A8 is more capable then the Mossy at killling bombers at a better de acker then both.
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Well, I'd say the temp is much heavier and Less agile, which means it loses speed much more quickly. Off the gun the temp may have the advantage with E utilization in the emmilman, but if the fight got slower, I actually think the 190D would be better despite statistical charts. It's much more agile at slower speeds with the rollrate. I wouldn't mind taking this fight to the DA to see how it turns out for fun, as I don't know if I've ever had that fight before. I'm just basing my reasoning off feel and experience.
I'd back the tempy for sure.
Once the fight gets real slow the 190 has had it.
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I would say the Mossie is as least as capable of killing buffs if the A8 don't wear the 30mm's- most I've talked with don't, because its totally useless against fighters with the 30mm (unless they HO them).
Seem like many times the Mossie get pilot wound after one or 2 bombers killed, whereas the A8 get a oil leak accomplishing the same.
Strafing ack's is the A8 domain since it can dive controlled at very high speeds, and use its firepower.
The F8 however is much better, you kills ack's outside their range with it's rockets.
The Mossie is ENY30 ....the A8 ENY20.
I'd agree that a mossy will kill an A8 but I'm talking about comparing them at ground attack and bomber killing...the A8 is more capable then the Mossy at killling bombers at a better de acker then both.
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I'd agree that a mossy will kill an A8 but I'm talking about comparing them at ground attack and bomber killing...the A8 is more capable then the Mossy at killling bombers at a better de acker then both.
I agree that the A8 is the better attaker. The main reason is that the AH mossie does not take damage very well and is prone to pilot wounds. It is also a much bigger target and thus more likely to catch ack hits.
That said, the mossie VI should have a similar ENY to the A8 - both at ENY 25. The only reason for a higher ENY to the moss VI is due to its being a lot less popular in the arena.
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I'd agree that a mossy will kill an A8 but I'm talking about comparing them at ground attack and bomber killing...the A8 is more capable then the Mossy at killling bombers at a better de acker then both.
You say tomato, Hitech says tomaaaaato, thats why these ENY numbers are all over the place.
Nobody..... except Hitech I guess really knows what the parameters are for setting ENY. How heavily does usage come in, how heavily does ammo load out/hitting power play into it, how heavily does bomb load, speed, high/low alt performance play into it? Nobody knows.
While you weight A8 as a superior buff killer, bozon may think the mossie is better at it, while others cant hit the broad side of a barn with cannons and so thin the A8 is a dog.
I do think that some of the changes suggested would really get the ENY debate going even stronger if that is possible. :devil
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Just a minor comment therer Fugitive -
I agreed with JunkyII.
If you cite me, please do it correctly.
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Just a minor comment therer Fugitive -
I agreed with JunkyII.
If you cite me, please do it correctly.
Im sorry, I was just posting examples and plugged a name in to make the point that what one player deems important another may find irrelevant which explains why there are always these discussions about ENY. Dont take things so personally.
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Actually, Hitech did say something about ENY settings being visible. I thought so anyway. Somewhere on the clipboard menu. Arena Settings?
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When you select a plane, ENY is on the far right side
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When you select a plane, ENY is on the far right side
Not that.
I was talking about when it kicks in.
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Not that.
I was talking about when it kicks in.
You can check in the country stats on the clipboard, or now with the latest update, planes effected by ENY will be yellow on the list in the hanger.
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You can check in the country stats on the clipboard, or now with the latest update, planes effected by ENY will be yellow on the list in the hanger.
I don't think ppl understand what I am saying here...
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You say tomato, Hitech says tomaaaaato, thats why these ENY numbers are all over the place.
Nobody..... except Hitech I guess really knows what the parameters are for setting ENY. How heavily does usage come in, how heavily does ammo load out/hitting power play into it, how heavily does bomb load, speed, high/low alt performance play into it? Nobody knows.
While you weight A8 as a superior buff killer, bozon may think the mossie is better at it, while others cant hit the broad side of a barn with cannons and so thin the A8 is a dog.
I do think that some of the changes suggested would really get the ENY debate going even stronger if that is possible. :devil
Not a matter of thinking in this case....A8 is a better bomber killer....If you disagree with me on that you don't know what you' re talking about...sorry. Same thing with the conversation a few months back about K4 vs Spit 16....some people said the K4 was better...Sorry again you're wrong not a single K4 stick will beat a ghost of themselves in a Spit 16 because the advantages a K4 does have aren't enough in a straight up fight.....Same goes with a KI84(Can a K4 just run....yes but that's not fighting and the other aircraft doesn't die)
Now if you said something like Spit 14 vs K4....or K4 vs P38J(in air vs air fight)...or 190A5 vs 152...or D11 vs 152...KI84 vs Spit 9/8...ect ect ect
Then you can start bringing opinion into the matter but certain things like A8 vs mossy in a bomber attack role...A8 is hands down better, anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know what their talking about because of ignorance.
I will say this...as far as Fighter vs fighter arguments in regards to their ability against another aircraft....you have to have thousands of duels recorded like some of us have(Few of those guys left<looks around where did all the fighters go> :uhoh) for me to take you serious...Bozon is one of those people especially when it comes to the Mossy.
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the dora should have the same value as the p51d
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In the bomber killer role it's a matter of ordnance on the A8.
Lets say you're out to fight at medium alt Spits in a melee arena, and a bomber set show up- B17s..
You are equipped with 2*20mm and 2*13 mm 50% fuel to stand any chance against those pesky spits.
You HO and kill the mid bomber in the set, and then you have to be lucky to get a second before you have to fly home with half a wing ( if the bomber gunners are good).
Flying at altitude with a 2*30mm 2*20mm 2*13mm and a pair of anti-air rockets is a whole different ballgame.
Flying in a Mossie you enjoy the advantage of 4 Hispanoes 4 nuisance mg's and suffer from a fragile pilot.
I DO know what I'm talking about, no-one else have the accumulated number of sorties in the A8 last 8 years I have.
Not a matter of thinking in this case....A8 is a better bomber killer....If you disagree with me on that you don't know what you' re talking about...sorry. Same thing with the conversation a few months back about K4 vs Spit 16....some people said the K4 was better...Sorry again you're wrong not a single K4 stick will beat a ghost of themselves in a Spit 16 because the advantages a K4 does have aren't enough in a straight up fight.....Same goes with a KI84(Can a K4 just run....yes but that's not fighting and the other aircraft doesn't die)
Now if you said something like Spit 14 vs K4....or K4 vs P38J(in air vs air fight)...or 190A5 vs 152...or D11 vs 152...KI84 vs Spit 9/8...ect ect ect
Then you can start bringing opinion into the matter but certain things like A8 vs mossy in a bomber attack role...A8 is hands down better, anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know what their talking about because of ignorance.
<Snip>
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Nope, Dora carry less ordnance, have a fraction of P51D endurance, keep E worse in turns.
Also Dora gets it's radiator perforated if you look at it long enough, whereas I've never ever seen a radiator leak on a p51D.
the dora should have the same value as the p51d
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Save,
I think that nobody exept you even considers rolling the A8 with just two cannons.
They have to be dedicated A8 pilots, because if they take only 2*20mm + 2*13mm for performance, they are much better off in the Dora.
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3-gun LA-7 1 perk
Agree.
Yak3 .... the damage model deserve a perk of 5
Fly it for a tour. See how much damage it takes.
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Nope, Dora carry less ordnance, have a fraction of P51D endurance, keep E worse in turns.
Also Dora gets it's radiator perforated if you look at it long enough, whereas I've never ever seen a radiator leak on a p51D.
The 190D is a much bigger nuisance than the P51D right now because of the cannons , climb, and exceleration performance. The majority of people don't fly these planes to the full envelope, but too many 190Ds all over the place create a boring flight atmosphere. In my opinion it's one of the main reasons why the air combat excitment has died in the game. When players can simply hit the x button and "extend away", or groups only fly at 25K and BnZ, its a recipe for boring gameplay that causes people to log. This plane has definitely gotten more popular and I think its a air combat deterant.
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In the bomber killer role it's a matter of ordnance on the A8.
Lets say you're out to fight at medium alt Spits in a melee arena, and a bomber set show up- B17s..
You are equipped with 2*20mm and 2*13 mm 50% fuel to stand any chance against those pesky spits.
You HO and kill the mid bomber in the set, and then you have to be lucky to get a second before you have to fly home with half a wing ( if the bomber gunners are good).
Flying at altitude with a 2*30mm 2*20mm 2*13mm and a pair of anti-air rockets is a whole different ballgame.
Flying in a Mossie you enjoy the advantage of 4 Hispanoes 4 nuisance mg's and suffer from a fragile pilot.
I DO know what I'm talking about, no-one else have the accumulated number of sorties in the A8 last 8 years I have.
Absolutely agree, I just don't know why you are flying an A8 with 2 gun package when you could just up and A5 instead ;)
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Fw190a5 is a cheating plane, it can turn without going back to the field to do it :aok
If I wanted to fly planes that don't give me a challenge I just start spending my 23k+ perk points, but what is the point ?