Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Gman on February 05, 2017, 01:54:07 PM
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Never really spent much time doing a2g in the game, but came across an article on War is Boring today about the Il2, and it mentioned that it carried a bomblet dispensing PTAB/bomb, and could carry a couple hundred 3lb anti armor shaped charged bomblets in the bomb bay, as well as dispensers under the wing that held 192 of them.
Anyone know how well they worked in reality? I'm sure somebody has wishlisted them before, but I can just imagine the howling from GVers getting pelted so easily by cluster bombs, haha. Just wondering how well they worked in WW2 vs German tanks and vehicles, not much out there that I could find regarding performance.
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The PTAB was effective. In one attack, six IL2s dropping PTAB 2.5 cluster bombs destroyed 15 tanks in one pass. US and Germans had cluster munitions as well, both anti-tank and anti-personnel.
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but I can just imagine the howling from GVers getting pelted so easily by cluster bombs, haha
Can''t be that more easy than lazily dropping 2k bombs on them from a Tu-2 :devil
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Can''t be that more easy than lazily dropping 2k bombs on them from a Tu-2 :devil
Tu2s were able to drop PTABs? Thought only limited to IL2 and Po2.
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Tu2s were able to drop PTABs?
Not that I know of.
I think you misread my statement, or I had another English fail ;)
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For the game it might lead to the Il-2 being more frequently used and a bit more effective in the anti tank role but as Snail said is it easier to drop 1 ton bombs from a Tu-2.
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The Yak-9b carried them too.
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(http://i.imgur.com/8PdJx3C.jpg)
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Would dropping this many bomlets at once kill the frame rate?
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Would dropping this many bomlets at once kill the frame rate?
The Il-2 carried 192 PTAB. We have something comparable in game already: A formation of B-29s can drop up to 240 bombs, so you could test at low altitude how that affects the FR.
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This could be one of those things Hitech will never forgive himself for adding to the game once the none stop GVer, roast Hitech in effigy POSTS hit the forums. It would be interesting to watch the first player who gets the timing down to de-ack a field with them since we have so many who seem impervious to ack while flying low over feilds. If upon addition Waffle modified the YakT with the 20mm package to also have the bomb bay.
I bet it would be similar to dropping smoke from a storch at ground level on tigerIIs. I did that once and my smoke bomb was the final amount of damage to give me a tigerII kill from a storch.
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Ptabs would make a nice compliment to how invisible gvs are now.
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It'll never happen. They were so devastating in real life I could just hear the screaming in the game when somebodys perked Tank got blowed up by them
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This could be one of those things Hitech will never forgive himself for adding to the game once the none stop GVer, roast Hitech in effigy POSTS hit the forums. It would be interesting to watch the first player who gets the timing down to de-ack a field with them since we have so many who seem impervious to ack while flying low over feilds. If upon addition Waffle modified the YakT with the 20mm package to also have the bomb bay.
I bet it would be similar to dropping smoke from a storch at ground level on tigerIIs. I did that once and my smoke bomb was the final amount of damage to give me a tigerII kill from a storch.
Is the sky always falling where you live at? You always try and twist someone's wish by claiming it will be the worst thing for the game.
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if it annoys GVers all the more reason to add it.
Driving to base and porking everything including hangars and then sitting on the runway with M4s seems to be a popular Bish tactic atm.
Whilst our Hurri 2ds are more than capable of dishing them a cold taste of AH reality, they need enough warning to get off the field in time before the camping starts.
The removal of F3 mode has killed alot of IL2 usage. I barely see them these days. I can still hear the whines on range Ghi just killed me AGAIN! :D
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You can set the views in the IL2 so you can furball. Sadly most of my dieing in an IL2 against fighters is from being HO'd. :huh Going into a shallow dive, popping a notch of flaps will give you a sudden tight little turn, and you can get the nose up for a parting shot with the 37mm.
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if it annoys GVers all the more reason to add it.
Driving to base and porking everything including hangars and then sitting on the runway with M4s seems to be a popular Bish tactic atm.
If there is a vehicle in the game that needs some of its ordnance perked, the M4(75) is it.
The calliope rockets for the M4(75) make the tank the ultimate base and town killer. Last night I was easily able to roll up a tank to A17 and killed the base with a single M4(75) and still had enough HE rounds to take out any hanger that respawned. Prior to taking A17, I was able to take out the town at A15 from a nearby hillside without ever coming in range of the town ack guns. With the calliope rockets, the town was taken down really fast and with M3s ready in the wings, A15 fell really fast.
Whilst our Hurri 2ds are more than capable of dishing them a cold taste of AH reality, they need enough warning to get off the field in time before the camping starts.
I agree. Even though A17 was defended, with the base completely porked, the few Bish that were able to up before I shut down the base weren't able to do anything to effect the base capture. Since I parked my tank in the middle of the field, Bish couldn't take off.
The removal of F3 mode has killed alot of IL2 usage. I barely see them these days. I can still hear the whines on range Ghi just killed me AGAIN! :D
It's odd, I rarely see anyone up an IL2 when I play late at night but during US prime time, I see more IL2s upping for town defense.
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I need to set me a button to turn off trackir when using the IL2. Trackir really throws off a fixed sight. I have to make myself get in alignment before every shot.
As far as tanks getting to the field, well that goes back to clearing trees back for a larger killing zone.
I use the M4 quite a bit. I think the reason the rockets are not perked is the rockets are so easy to knock off.
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The IL2m3 is modelled and yet its PTaB is not. IMO it is the PTaB that made the IL2m3 in to the tank killer it is known to be.
They were housed in 4 pods so it has 4 deployments.
It may be worth finding out how often the PTaB was deployed on the same aircraft as the 37mm. Such that they are only available with the 23mm YVA.
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The IL2m3 is modelled and yet its PTaB is not. IMO it is the PTaB that made the IL2m3 in to the tank killer it is known to be.
They were housed in 4 pods so it has 4 deployments.
It may be worth finding out how often the PTaB was deployed on the same aircraft as the 37mm. Such that they are only available with the 23mm YVA.
Then we need to add it to the Wishlist - perhaps as a perked plane option.
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No need to perk it, you will cover a slightly bigger area but as said before, a 1 ton bomb from a Tu have almost the same blast radius. The bomblets will make the Il a bit more effective but it will not be any kind of über tank killer. Planes like the A-20 will still be a better option. (Not to mention the lancs....)
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True, same as the Fw190F8 SD-4 anti-armor bomblet's, and also R4M for the FW190A8/D9 air-to-air rockets
The IL2m3 is modelled and yet its PTaB is not. IMO it is the PTaB that made the IL2m3 in to the tank killer it is known to be.
They were housed in 4 pods so it has 4 deployments.
It may be worth finding out how often the PTaB was deployed on the same aircraft as the 37mm. Such that they are only available with the 23mm YVA.
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True, same as the Fw190F8 SD-4 anti-armor bomblet's
Were the canisters limited to the fuselage hard points on the F8?
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Much of the PTAB success came against columns of vehicles stuck on a road. In our game we are more likely to be flinging PTAB around a small area trying to get one onto a tank someone is doing doughnuts with to screw our aim. Some enterprising individual will come up with an unexpected use for them that will probably have these forums flaming with PO'd vets.
Consider the Yak version with the internal bomb carrying ability that also dropped PTAB. Then think about all those Yak drivers who come in at grass top level and fly down your runway unscathed. Now give them PTAB's to share on their way through......even an IL2 under the right conditions at a Vbase or a port.
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In our game we are more likely to be flinging PTAB around a small area trying to get one onto a tank someone is doing doughnuts with to screw our aim. Some enterprising individual will come up with an unexpected use for them that will probably have these forums flaming with PO'd vets.
So? We have guys in Lancasters now dropping 4k eggs on single GVs in game.
Consider the Yak version with the internal bomb carrying ability that also dropped PTAB. Then think about all those Yak drivers who come in at grass top level and fly down your runway unscathed. Now give them PTAB's to share on their way through......even an IL2 under the right conditions at a Vbase or a port.
Again, so what? Neither of your "points" are really valid reasons not to add PTABs or other types of cluster munitions.
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If I didn't want them I would say I don't want them.
This is rhetorical imagery to how things never get used in the game exactly like the OP trys to sell them to Hitech for inclusion. And Hitech seems to always find the least modeling to introduce things for our greifergastic circus. PTAB will only work if you can get the tiny bugger onto a tank. Tankers have already learned to turn like furballing their tank when the IL2\Ju87 makes it's guns run. The single best place for the PTAB will be in the town while tanks are limited by the streets(columns of vehicles). So the PTAB will turn into a fun run greiferistc device that will have vets screaming about historic misuses of the little buggers.
You have been around this greiferistic madhouse as long as I have Ack Ack.
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200 bomblets can cover roughly 400 square meters if you want a good chance of killing a tank. thats 20x20 meters. Not exactly a huge area. it would be an upgrade for the IL-2 since the bombs it has today is nearly useless for most players but it will not make the il-2 more dangerous to tanks than the A-20 and similar planes.
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You want to become deadly with the IL2 bombs and rockets? Practice offline with the lead computing dive bombing cross turned on. The IL2 climbs like a pig loaded with ord, and is it's own worst enemy if you try to dive bomb. You have to learn how to level "bomb and rocket" which is what those arcs on the hood are for with some of the skins. The guns make the IL2 a more precision weapon against GV's while the bombs will get you whacked against osti\wirb\M16.
You aim down the side of the hood favoring one wing or the other and the arcs are related to alt I believe 200m-350m. You make a level run over your target and when the line of the arc that curves down the side of the nose is just at the target you hit the switch. That was the answer to the Il2 being a death trap if you dive bombed with it. It's good for harassing camps and supply depots. I suspect Hitech will have the PTAB drop in a straight line arc effected by yaw like our current bombs. You want some dispersion, you will have to funky chicken your tail over the target.
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The IL-2 also suffers from the fact that its armor is non existent in the game, even a .30 pintle gun kills the pilot through the front armor...
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Were the canisters limited to the fuselage hard points on the F8?
I'd guess so, as the SD-4 HL was dropped in the AB 500 and AB 250 containers, which didn't fit to the ETC 50/ETC 70 underwing racks.
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We have videos of PTAB deployment.
The Il2 flew flat and deployed from the horizontal to spread a carpet some 100m in length and 20-30m wide. They dispersed quite naturally.... The carpet length being a function of ground speed.
It's most effective use during the Kursk conflict took out multiple tiger tanks which had entered the battled in a massed attack. This caused the Whermarcht to radically change tactics to a much more open attack strategy. Which was the adopted strategy for the rest of the war. The IL2 plus PTAB continued to be the most effective air borne tank killer of WW2
Tank battles where there is considerable separation is the typical format found in AH3.
These things did not blow buildings they peppered them with holes. They would be ideal at catching stuff on spawns or areas where there are multiple spawn campers...... Equally ideal at carpeting a street in a town or in a cluster of trees where tanks were hiding.
However to delay they have to fly straight and low....... A perfect target for Ostwinds and Wirbles.
I.e ...gameplay.
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Quite a lot of IL:s fell to AAA irl too so its seems legit. our flak is a lot more accurate but on the other hand there are rarely more than 1-3 flakpanzers in the same area.
But im sure that the community will find a tactic in order to deploy the bombs in the most efficient way..
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And you don't think the geniuses in our game won't try everything they can with an IL2 full of PTABs to leverage something greify with it to get a rise out of people? What's Air Marshal Hitech gonna do to them for spraying PTABS all over the place? Ground them.......
I stopped worrying about these kinds of things the day a lancaster box popped up out of the water to spray 1000lbers all over my CV and sink it.
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Bustr, that's probably the same reason we don't have 24 r4m's on our Focke-Wulf's and Me262s.
They did not leave any smoke trails, the allied thought they where hit by flak, not by fighters.
The 190F8 only carried bomblet bombs on the center mount, they where to big for the wings, they either had the rockets, but more often the small bombs, the rockets where very effective when you hit, but much like the allied rockets, very hard to hit with.
In AH you can kill a Panther with the anti-tank rockets, but you have to get close, I have only managed to kill Panthers twice with them.
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And you don't think the geniuses in our game won't try everything they can with an IL2 full of PTABs to leverage something greify with it to get a rise out of people?
This is a PvP game, people will have to deal with getting their tank blown up by an airplane. The only one with an issue seems to be you but you've pretty much been unable to come with a reasonable reason as to why the PTAB shouldn't be added, except your "what if..." worst case scenarios.
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I'm making fun of it and you and the over serious defending it so seriously.
It will get abused like everything else added to the game that was supposed to be seriously utilized in a proper WW2 manner in our brittley serious simulation. It will be a greifertastic greifing toy flung at everything bored griefers can fling it at like a monkey pie flinging party at the zoo. It would probably be one of the best gags Hitech adds to the game in the last few years to watch all the greifers find a gazillion ways to fling it around the arena.
You get any more brittle about this and your halo will crack..... :O
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Upping a formation of Lancasters from a dirt field to take out a tank could be termed griefing.............. IMO.
Killing GV's with PTaB laden Il2's is what they were designed to do............
The argument that any new deployment of weaponry can be used to "grief" is a nay-sayer's charter that would lock the game into stagnation IMO.
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Allow only bombing from bomb-sight for level bombers, only a few, more nimble planes like the Ju88 could act as both level bombers and dive bombers.
Doing that would require you to fly without drones, no planes ever bomb-dive in formation because you aiming with the whole plane.
Upping a formation of Lancasters from a dirt field to take out a tank could be termed griefing.............. IMO.
Killing GV's with PTaB laden Il2's is what they were designed to do............
The argument that any new deployment of weaponry can be used to "grief" is a nay-sayer's charter that would lock the game into stagnation IMO.
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I'd guess so, as the SD-4 HL was dropped in the AB 500 and AB 250 containers, which didn't fit to the ETC 50/ETC 70 underwing racks.
The F8 was also equipped with the ETC 250. The AB250 could theoretically be carried under wing, though I can't speak as to whether or not it was actually carried.
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The F8 was also equipped with the ETC 250.
Under the wing? I know some G variants did, but I never read about the F-8 having anything bigger than ETC50/70 under the wing. :headscratch:
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Under the wing? I know some G variants did, but I never read about the F-8 having anything bigger than ETC50/70 under the wing. :headscratch:
Sorry, I meant the ETC 503. At least one group used it in conjunction with the SC250 in the.... Balkans if memory serves. I believe it was Krusty who posted pictures in one of the 190 expanded variants threads.
Admittedly it was fairly rare, being used primarily for carriage of drop tanks from what I can tell, though as I said there is photo documentation of at least one group using then for bombs. And it's entirely possible that bomblete dispensers were carried on the wings as well.
More to the point though, it was a possible load out. And if I recall, hitech has they won't restrict specific loadouts so long as it was possible and each component was used and historical.
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I will take the P-38L for GV attacks over any IL2 bomblets or not.
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Upping a formation of Lancasters from a dirt field to take out a tank could be termed griefing.............. IMO.
Killing GV's with PTaB laden Il2's is what they were designed to do............
The argument that any new deployment of weaponry can be used to "grief" is a nay-sayer's charter that would lock the game into stagnation IMO.
You get any more brittle about this and your halo will crack..... :O
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The removal of F3 mode has killed alot of IL2 usage. I barely see them these days. I can still hear the whines on range Ghi just killed me AGAIN! :D
Yeah and it was only Ghi who even flew them that way. I flew them exclusively and still I never figured out how they were supposedly uber against fighters in F3. Im a very average fighter jock and I never got killed like that by an IL2, not even by Ghi and I was always around towns he was buzzing around at.
I still fly them a little but not much. I'll pass on getting the entire argument started again about how my plane was ruined. Whats done is done.
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Yeah and it was only Ghi who even flew them that way. I flew them exclusively and still I never figured out how they were supposedly uber against fighters in F3. Im a very average fighter jock and I never got killed like that by an IL2, not even by Ghi and I was always around towns he was buzzing around at.
I still fly them a little but not much. I'll pass on getting the entire argument started again about how my plane was ruined. Whats done is done.
Its pretty simple.. If you are in the cockpit of a IL2 its hard to make deflection shots. If you are in F3 mode its very very easy.
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We have perk points for airplanes...
How about introducing perk points for special weapons?
For example
Kill 5 main battle tanks in one sortie in il-2 and you are awarded a PTAB that can be used (once) the next time you fly a IL-2. When PTAB is used you have to kill 5 mbt's again to get the priviledge of using it.
Beyond IL-2, new ways to implement perks opens lots of possibilities to spice up this stale game again.
Perk fuel (high octane fuel available to select planes based on historical records)
Perk ordinance (il 2 PTAB, aerial rockets for me 262, for example)
Perk equipment (computer gunsights like in p51, for example)
Just make sure it can only be used once and work hard to earn it back again.
Example, land 5 victories in a Mustang D and perk add-ons become available.
You get the option to take high octane fuel (based on actual records) or a k-14 computer gunsight... You can not take both. Once used you gotta earn it again by landing 5 victories using the standard in-game issued mustang D