Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JunkyII on March 24, 2017, 11:21:34 PM
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Then put your money where your mouth is and stop flying every sortie from the position of advantage. Tired of you guys who talk up this big game who constantly fly with numbers and an alt advantage or ubber rides like Hogs and P51s....buncha cake eaters.
It honestly helps the community if you do put yourself at the disadvantage, gives the 2 weeker the advantage so he's not getting smacked around so easily and the guy who is a bit above average a confidence boost when they kill someone they see landing a lot of kills or someone who normally kills them a lot.
The score system sucks and even KOTH can be manipulated to make it easier to win...be a fighter, not a cake eater.
:salute
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I like cake.
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i give people my dead 6'clock and even then they wont fight me.
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i give people my dead 6'clock and even then they wont fight me.
Posted this drunk but it's true about some people, not you...you take on the horde instead of join in it.
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i give people my dead 6'clock and even then they wont fight me.
I do the same for fun in the MA lol.
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I dont consider myself a "top stick" in the game but I do have trouble breathing over 12k no matter what plane Im flying. :devil
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yeah I hate it when people come in at 20k and start picking-only skill needed is to be able to hit the plane as they scream in 500mph, the 56th is very good at this, and they never seem to lose their energy. they have the numbers why come in at 20k, if they are so good come in lower make a old fashioned dog fight, that goes for all countries. it seems to me that it would be more fun to actually dual and furball, like the old days. :bolt:
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Hog's uber? Damn. I thought I was a target magnet rather than a target destroyer.
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Hog's uber? Damn. I thought I was a target magnet rather than a target destroyer.
Yeah, I did a :headscratch: when I read that too.
:salute
Sik
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Yeah, I did a :headscratch: when I read that too.
:salute
Sik
Awwwwwww come on man...Majik flapz 'n rudder, helocopterish abilities, gear down, turns with spitz, holds E like a mother with a newborn child................ :)
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The F4U4 is the best dogfighter in the game....the 1A is not far off and even the -1 is a monster even against late war birds like LAs and Spits.
Saying it's not easier then most to be good in is crazy. Like saying an LA7 isn't easy...
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yeah I hate it when people come in at 20k and start picking-only skill needed is to be able to hit the plane as they scream in 500mph, the 56th is very good at this, and they never seem to lose their energy. they have the numbers why come in at 20k, if they are so good come in lower make a old fashioned dog fight, that goes for all countries. it seems to me that it would be more fun to actually dual and furball, like the old days. :bolt:
LOL!!! We were coming in at 6-7K above your field only to have you try to HO us in that 152 last night. I have only been with the 56th a week or so and rarely do I see them get over 15k in a P47. Frenchy hates going over 10k, says it takes to long to get there in our big ol girl.
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I do not log in to the main arena looking for fairness from the red icon guys and I certainly do not offer it. I log in to kill red icon guys. Sometimes I am high alt, sometimes I am the sap on the runway getting vulched. Sometimes I am in a jet and other times it's me in a P40F. The only constant is that I am trying to shoot down or blow up red icon guys regardless of my situation. The more bad guys I can find in one place the better it is. :aok
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Shot down Lunatic twice last night. Once in a TU2 (Turn, non HO) and then in a D-11. It made me feel good =)
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Have you heard J-row cry when he loses advantage? Guys like him will never give up advantage they can't handle losing.
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I consider myself to be a top stick, but because of the huge pile of sticks I have for firewood.
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Awwwwwww come on man...Majik flapz 'n rudder, helocopterish abilities, gear down, turns with spitz, holds E like a mother with a newborn child................ :)
If your losing to a hog in a spit maybe you should take a look at how you are flying the spit?
With the exception of the -4, the hog is one of the poorest climbers, as well as having one of the poorest acceleration rates in the game. Gear, flaps, and rudder suck the E right out of a hog, and once it gets slow the options start to evaporate.
:salute
Sik
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Posted this drunk but it's true about some people, not you...you take on the horde instead of join in it.
haha so im not the only one who drunk rages quits then screams on forums???
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If your losing to a hog in a spit maybe you should take a look at how you are flying the spit?
With the exception of the -4, the hog is one of the poorest climbers, as well as having one of the poorest acceleration rates in the game. Gear, flaps, and rudder suck the E right out of a hog, and once it gets slow the options start to evaporate.
:salute
Sik
I never referred to me losing to a hog while flying a spit. I just said a hog will turn with a spit. Ill give it that it wont accel or climb but it doesn't really matter. Just dump the majik flapz and hit that rudder <G>
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HaHa
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If your losing to a hog in a spit maybe you should take a look at how you are flying the spit?
With the exception of the -4, the hog is one of the poorest climbers, as well as having one of the poorest acceleration rates in the game. Gear, flaps, and rudder suck the E right out of a hog, and once it gets slow the options start to evaporate.
:salute
Sik
Rolling Scissors is where most even fights skill wise end up....and most kills in the MA are from advantage like BnZ....which aircraft is more successful at those 2 things...Hog or the Spit.
The hog is arguably the best plane in a rolling scissor in the game....-1 to -4 doesn't matter they are all some of the best dogfighters in the game.
Have you heard J-row cry when he loses advantage? Guys like him will never give up advantage they can't handle losing.
Funny thing is he tried to tell me the F4U wasn't easy mode...so I upped a -1 and landed 9 kills while fighting DrBone, condor and a few of the other top gun guys...
The only thing you need to be aware of is E management....which is not hard, stay fast and be higher :rolleyes:
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The only thing you need to be aware of is E management....which is not hard, stay fast and be higher :rolleyes:
This came full circle. Then someone goes to the forums and says you shouldn't do that. :neener:
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The Hog is a damn good plane. Just don't fight it's fight and you'll win :)
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Every plane has its goods and bads.
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yeah I hate it when people come in at 20k and start picking-only skill needed is to be able to hit the plane as they scream in 500mph, the 56th is very good at this, and they never seem to lose their energy. they have the numbers why come in at 20k, if they are so good come in lower make a old fashioned dog fight, that goes for all countries. it seems to me that it would be more fun to actually dual and furball, like the old days. :bolt:
You should come fly with us a few times. I promise you'd change this, largely false, assumption.
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If your losing to a hog in a spit maybe you should take a look at how you are flying the spit?
With the exception of the -4, the hog is one of the poorest climbers, as well as having one of the poorest acceleration rates in the game. Gear, flaps, and rudder suck the E right out of a hog, and once it gets slow the options start to evaporate.
:salute
Sik
Also...Also may I add..... the Corsair can fight not only slow, not only slow my friendz, but fast as well! How many other planes in the set can fight in both regimen so easily I ask?!!!!! :old:
I am glad, almost satisfied that we changed course in this thread and stoped bashing a certain playing style to bashing Corsair pilotz!!! :rock :D
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The only thing you need to be aware of is E management....which is not hard, stay fast and be higher :rolleyes:
Honestly, E management isn't about staying high and fast. Just as E fighting isn't just BnZ. It's all about taking advantage of the differences in E states between opponents. You can start at an E disadvantage and use better E management to win the fight, just as you can start with the advantage and use poor E management to lose.
Granted the hog is one of the best in the rolling scissors but as Ace said don't fight it's fight. When the hog tries to draw you into a scissors that is usually the time to start going up. Same goes for when they start to dump flaps.
Don't get me wrong I love the hog, in particular the birdcage, and have been flying it in AH before we ever had the 1A. I've never considered it uber or ez mode. In fact I find the 109's to be much easier to fly successfully in an MA environment.
:salute
Sik
P.S. Also...Also may I add..... the Corsair can fight not only slow, not only slow my friendz, but fast as well! How many other planes in the set can fight in both regimen so easily I ask?!!!!! :old:
I am glad, almost satisfied that we changed course in this thread and stoped bashing a certain playing style to bashing Corsair pilotz!!! :rock :D
We (Corsair pile-its) are use to it. :cheers:
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I really like flying the 109G2 in the MA. Has a lot of great characteristics that make for great fights! Can't run from much so you constantly have to be on your guard and use SA, while also dog fighting out of situations. Makes the game a lot more fun when you fly a plane that you can't simply hit X and run away when you lose advantage. Personally, I like fighting agaisnt Turn n burn planes and planes like F4U moreso than constantly running into runner P51Ds or 190D all the time. People who fly those planes so timidly just make the overall fights slow and boring.
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Don't get me wrong I love the hog, in particular the birdcage, and have been flying it in AH before we ever had the 1A. I've never considered it uber or ez mode. In fact I find the 109's to be much easier to fly successfully in an MA environment.
:salute
Sik
P.S. We (Corsair pile-its) are use to it. :cheers:
He said the 109z are easier! Outrage! get the 109 joc'z in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :joystick: :D
:cheers:
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He said the 109z are easier! Outrage! get the 109 joc'z in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :joystick: :D
:cheers:
Yep, easier than the hog, but of course the easiest of all is the spit. :neener: :bolt:
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You should come fly with us a few times. I promise you'd change this, largely false, assumption.
Some really good knife fights vs you and your guys lately, Mak. 56th guys will always fight!
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Honestly, E management isn't about staying high and fast. Just as E fighting isn't just BnZ. It's all about taking advantage of the differences in E states between opponents. You can start at an E disadvantage and use better E management to win the fight, just as you can start with the advantage and use poor E management to lose.
Granted the hog is one of the best in the rolling scissors but as Ace said don't fight it's fight. When the hog tries to draw you into a scissors that is usually the time to start going up. Same goes for when they start to dump flaps.
Don't get me wrong I love the hog, in particular the birdcage, and have been flying it in AH before we ever had the 1A. I've never considered it uber or ez mode. In fact I find the 109's to be much easier to fly successfully in an MA environment.
:salute
Sik
P.S.
We (Corsair pile-its) are use to it. :cheers:
Only way I can provide proof that the Hog is easy mode is for someone to 1v1 me. Hog vs 109 in a straight set fight...Hog is going to win 8 times out of 10...unless the skill of the 109 pilot is that much more then the guy flying the hog.
Only things more easy mode when talking about a 1v1 fight is the Spits but at least in the MA the spit has a hard time getting away and can't BnZ.
Seriously Sik I want you to show me how you would not fight the Hogs fight in a 109, me personally...ACM is the same no matter what you are flying...some just make it easier to perform that ACM...which the Hog for sure does.
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Hey Junky I feel like I am partially to blame last night. That last time when you came in low and 2 of us pounced on you, it was just a normal thing to do and not done that way because we were too scared, weak, drunk (actually I may have been) to fight 1 on 1, it is the MA and we just wanted your plane out of there.
However, to your point in general, I do have to agree. There are too many now that will not actually engage in a fight, they stay fast stay safe and then pick when the enemy is engaged with another player. I am not sure how we coax people out of that mentality. Sure, I fly a 51 but I am more than willing to take other planes on and I suspect the way I fly the 51 puts me at a serious disadvantage most of the time :)
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Only way I can provide proof that the Hog is easy mode is for someone to 1v1 me. Hog vs 109 in a straight set fight...Hog is going to win 8 times out of 10...unless the skill of the 109 pilot is that much more then the guy flying the hog.
Only things more easy mode when talking about a 1v1 fight is the Spits but at least in the MA the spit has a hard time getting away and can't BnZ.
Seriously Sik I want you to show me how you would not fight the Hogs fight in a 109, me personally...ACM is the same no matter what you are flying...some just make it easier to perform that ACM...which the Hog for sure does.
Stop by the TA some time and I'll show you how I would fly a 109 against a hog, or how I would fly a hog against a 109. It's not the same, and in fact I approach the two fights differently.
:salute
Sik
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Every plane has its goods and bads.
spit 16 and ki43. These planes debunk this theory
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spit 16 and ki43. These planes debunk this theory
i would say the bad thing about them is the damage model. One solid hit and they go down.
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And the Ki-43 has plenty of weaknesses, damage tolerance is one, plus poor guns and it cannot dive.
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I never referred to me losing to a hog while flying a spit. I just said a hog will turn with a spit. Ill give it that it wont accel or climb but it doesn't really matter. Just dump the majik flapz and hit that rudder <G>
Jug FUSS! :old:
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But see if we go the other way and fly a Brew or KI 43 that's frowned upon too ;)
Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk
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spit 16 and ki43. These planes debunk this theory
I'd rather have one of those planes on my six than an F4U any day of the week.
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*cough*Brewster*Cough. Meh who cares how peeps play. Top Sticks zooming around in 1-ping-death 30mm planes, Top Sticks flying in 4 canons planes. Top Sticks only engaging when at a distinct advantage. Who cares, all in the same to me. The rest of us will put our score ego aside and enjoy the game for what it is.
Legends were made not by 'Bob landed XX kills' ... Legends were made by dogfight winners who overcame adversity. :old:
Latrobe - Legend.
Yucca - Legend.
Greebo - Legend.
Skyyr - Not a Legend.
See what I mean here?
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The F4U4 is the best dogfighter in the game....
No it isn't KI-84 is.
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In the MA, the 109 and F4U should be flown with 2 completely different styles. The F4U is a BnZ plane that just happens to also be great at turn fighting. The 109 is a mid alt furballer type of plane that works best in quick action snap shots and deflection shots going in and out of the fight like a shark. Best way I can describe it. Both planes have clear strengths and weaknesses. The 109 can't dive faster than 425. That's a huge weakness for players who don't know other styles besides BnZ. The F4U loses speed very quickly and becomes an actual Hog If you get caught up in a fight. Its lack of acceleration and E regeneration are huge weakness that give players a very tough time to be successful if they get caught low in a furball. Much easier to escape the furball in a 109. I wouldn't say either of those planes are noob planes. They take styles that need a lot of patience to learn how to be successful and actually land kills. Setting up shots in the 109 is an important tactic and skill that takes time to learn. Most players who BnZ in the F4U don't keep their speed and end up slow in the furballs and thus get ganged and picked easier. I'd say in a 1v1, the only way a 109 could win is if it has the E on the merge and can out climb/rope on the merge. If the fight got into a rolling scissors, it's over for the 109. Realistically, both planes are a challenge to fly for newer pilots because you really have to understand the flight style of these planes. That's something most players in the MA don't really understand. There are different styles of fighting in these types of planes that can make you be more successful. Both of these planes take an understanding of these styles to really be successful in them. I fly both quite exclusively and would say they aren't easy mode planes in most cases.
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No it isn't KI-84 is.
Nah man, the F4U4 is better in almost every way except the guns.
I'd agree the F4U4 is best dogfighter, but you still cant get slow in a big furball or you are risking getting picked pretty easily. 1v1 the f4U beats the Ki84 in turning. It can dive better, go faster, and it better at high alts. Once again though, both planes should be used with 2 completely different styles. The Ki84 should basically be flown the same way as a 109 in many respects.
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In the MA, the 109 and F4U should be flown with 2 completely different styles. The F4U is a BnZ plane that just happens to also be great at turn fighting. The 109 is a mid alt furballer type of plane that works best in quick action snap shots and deflection shots going in and out of the fight like a shark. Best way I can describe it. Both planes have clear strengths and weaknesses. The 109 can't dive faster than 425. That's a huge weakness for players who don't know other styles besides BnZ. The F4U loses speed very quickly and becomes an actual Hog If you get caught up in a fight. Its lack of acceleration and E regeneration are huge weakness that give players a very tough time to be successful if they get caught low in a furball. Much easier to escape the furball in a 109. I wouldn't say either of those planes are noob planes. They take styles that need a lot of patience to learn how to be successful and actually land kills. Setting up shots in the 109 is an important tactic and skill that takes time to learn. Most players who BnZ in the F4U don't keep their speed and end up slow in the furballs and thus get ganged and picked easier. I'd say in a 1v1, the only way a 109 could win is if it has the E on the merge and can out climb/rope on the merge. If the fight got into a rolling scissors, it's over for the 109. Realistically, both planes are a challenge to fly for newer pilots because you really have to understand the flight style of these planes. That's something most players in the MA don't really understand. There are different styles of fighting in these types of planes that can make you be more successful. Both of these planes take an understanding of these styles to really be successful in them. I fly both quite exclusively and would say they aren't easy mode planes in most cases.
Pretty Spot On Assessment, Violator
Nothing is "easy mode" with either the Bf109 series or the F4U series
:cheers:
TC
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Nah man, the F4U4 is better in almost every way except the guns.
I'd agree the F4U4 is best dogfighter, but you still cant get slow in a big furball or you are risking getting picked pretty easily. 1v1 the f4U beats the Ki84 in turning. It can dive better, go faster, and it better at high alts. Once again though, both planes should be used with 2 completely different styles. The Ki84 should basically be flown the same way as a 109 in many respects.
I disagree...
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I disagree...
That response is clearly why most people can't fly the F4U up to its full potential which means it's not as easy of a plane as people think it is. Especially with the 50cals that can make it harder to actually bring the enemy down quickly which can mean life or death. The Ki84 is a much easier plan to learn for new guys and is a great plane to learn how to fly the 109 also. The F4U takes a lot of patience because you can't zoom in and out of fights as easy without a bunch of built up E. The F4U4 can actually outperform the Ki84 is most cases but it's harder to handle especially in roll rate and acceleration, and takes longer to pick up E, which are key components to a skill level of a plane.
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I AM THE TOP STICK!!! The end... :neener:
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Scotty you...your a top Shtik
:cheers:
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Scotty you...your a top Shtik
:cheers:
well hell...I was close lol :cheers:
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Uhh... I guess I misundersrand this post but, look at my rank/score
I really don't consider myself a top stick but I do play not only for therapy but I
do play to win.
Those that want to only furball ... more power to ya and I am at ur service as
cannon fodder :devil
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which means it's not as easy of a plane as people think it is.
Oh it really is that easy to fly, it still doesn't change the fact that the ki84 is the best dogfighter in game.
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Oh it really is that easy to fly, it still doesn't change the fact that the ki84 is the best dogfighter in game.
Bushmills, what is your gameid?
Why don't you take Violator to the TA or DA, and you take the F4U-4 and let Violator take the Ki-84 and film y'all 's fights
Show us how easy you think the F4U-4 really is....
Then the both of you switch planes and show us why you think that the Ki-84 is the best plane to dogfight in....
Please, we all are curious
TC
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I have been holding out for it...but I have finally come to the realisation it won't happen.... there are two choices for today.... become a meathead or leave.... I'm having a conflict of interest on this at present...
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I see things haven't changed much in Aces High ha ha. Comes down to people will fight in a manner which best utilizes their particular planes strengths. It's also making a very large assumption that everyone only engages when they have some overwhelming advantageous position. I have personally engaged many people when the fight was in their favor whether it be plane type vs plane type, altitude, speed, one vs many and many other scenarios. I also doubt too that many 2 weekers are really going to have an advantage even if you gave them your 6, especially against skilled players. I toyed around with an old teammate one day he had a jug, alt, speed and a teammate and they still ended up on the losing end against a P-51 and not once did I run.
Skinny of it is nothing is uber in the game and I've seen many early war birds eat up late war birds. The key was the pilot, their abilities and knowledge of how to reverse the situations. It takes years for people to get good at this game and the new guys need to understand this from the beginning. It's not being mean it's just facts and the best way to learn is to fail and understand how and why you failed. That's where again the veterans can pass on their knowledge to help.
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I have been holding out for it...but I have finally come to the realisation it won't happen.... there are two choices for today.... become a meathead or leave.... I'm having a conflict of interest on this at present...
Ya lost me in translation, Tongs, lol
I myself have yet to figure out what this whole thread is about...
TC
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Bushmills, what is your gameid?
Why don't you take Violator to the TA or DA, and you take the F4U-4 and let Violator take the Ki-84 and film y'all 's fights
Show us how easy you think the F4U-4 really is....
Then the both of you switch planes and show us why you think that the Ki-84 is the best plane to dogfight in....
Please, we all are curious
TC
My id is Mighty01 :aok
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My id is Mighty01 :aok
Hahahahaha :rofl ..... too funny
I know you are joking and I know you have been around awhile, to answer my question with that gameid, hehe
Cheers
TC
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Hahahahaha :rofl ..... too funny
I know you are joking and I know you have been around awhile, to answer my question with that gameid, hehe
Cheers
TC
:salute :aok
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I'll tell you that the KI84 is a better defensive plane and is much better used defending a base than any F4U. The F4U is a much better attack plane. They perform best in the situation that fits their flight characteristics better. I'd roll a Ki84 to defend against a CV and F4Us all day. Most people who roll from CVs in F4Us don't take the time to get alt, and that's its biggest weakness when fighting low alt dog fights. F4Us with higher alts will have a clear advantage. The F4U is a very poor defensive plane agaisnt high attackers. It's all about the style you like to play, as these planes have 2 completely different styles in the MA.
I think playing for rank or score is alright. It will help you become better at the game. That being said, if you are good at the game, and only fly easy mode 190Ds or perk planes to easily run away in, you aren't doing yourself a favor to increase your skills. That was my biggest gripe agaisnt Skyrr. Would have been nice to see what he could do score wise in the MA in a less faster, less BNZ style plane. If a player flies old eny planes that don't have many advantages and still score well, you can say they probably do have a good understanding of the game and aren't busy gaming the score for ego. That's atleast where I'd like to be, given that at times I do score higher. I try not to fly the easiest planes because it's not as much of a challenge for as long as I've played the game. I think score can work well to work on your dive bombing skills, bombing skills, and tank skills, to use the stats to measure your performance. That's another thing I use score for. If I wanted to fly easy mode run planes and score high all the time, it really wouldn't be that fun after a while. The different planes in the game can really add a whole different level of skill and undertsanding to the game play that can improve your performance.
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DmonSlyr back a long time ago in tours 58 and 59 I attempted to see how much of a difference it would make by changing from my standard ride the P-51D to a P-40E. Still fought against the same uber planes and racked up a similar kill to death ratio as flying the P-51D. The funny part was my ranking was still lower with 495 kills and 188 deaths in the P-40E and ranked 32nd in fighters compared to the 496 kills to 103 deaths in the P-51D and ranked 5th in fighters. To each their own just have fun. I got burnt out because I was too competitive and worried too much about what others thought. People should just have fun and ignore the negative nancys.
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Man you guys are going on about planes dogfighting and which is better...for me with the examples used the F4U in the right hands is ultimate....Ki84 is for those who don't want the stigma of using a spit16 so the Ki is far more user friendly...this thread is about the fact that they aren't dogfighting...damn man...A6M's are freakin BnZing.... in out....friend will follow and clear ...and his other two friends will just make sure...if you look like you are going to reverse them.....oh boys...climb climb climb...Phew...that was a close one aye boys.........new hard deck rule....no getting below 1k above the highest red guy...unless reaching atleast Mach 1 on the way down...
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Maybe we should make a special arena for those that "consider themselves a Top Stick" so they can hash it out in there.
:cheers:
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Maybe we should make a special arena for those that "consider themselves a Top Stick" so they can hash it out in there.
:cheers:
Or give them their own forum at least...
You could call the forum: "My Kung Fu is Better than Your Kung Fu"
Hehe
TC
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Man you guys are going on about planes dogfighting and which is better...for me with the examples used the F4U in the right hands is ultimate....Ki84 is for those who don't want the stigma of using a spit16 so the Ki is far more user friendly...this thread is about the fact that they aren't dogfighting...damn man...A6M's are freakin BnZing.... in out....friend will follow and clear ...and his other two friends will just make sure...if you look like you are going to reverse them.....oh boys...climb climb climb...Phew...that was a close one aye boys.........new hard deck rule....no getting below 1k above the highest red guy...unless reaching atleast Mach 1 on the way down...
I understand what your saying, and I see the same things. Guys like Toxiin picking and running until he can turn back and pick some more. It is "how the game is played" these days. Is it a good thing..... I dont think so. This game has lost a lot of the combat aspect. I was at the fight that you blew up on at the field on the coast with our CV there. I was one of the P47 BnZin, tho we did get low and slow now and then. I like a good fight and have had many against you. That fight was full dar vs full dar. Had I slowed to fight your Ki61 we wouldnt have had a fight, I would have been picked by the 3 la's and spit16 that were coming in.
Gone are the days of calling a guy off so you can finish a 1 vs 1. Gone are the days of fighting head to head, be it plane GV or team against team for a base. Gone is any kind of strategy for attacks. Now it is HO, pick and running. Gang the the few defenders, heaven forbid you put your self in danger of taking any damage.
I thought the fight we had Saturday was ok, had some fun and got a few fights when I could drag a guy out. Did I BnZ? yup, did I extend.... when I had 4 chasing me.....yup. Dig I clear my squadies 6..... when I could.... yup. But you defenders had the same options as we did. up at the close field..... cv in our case... and be low and attack, or up a sector back and come in with some alt and speed. Jugs love the wind rippling across them and so most of our guys came in higher. At least we fought it out. I know its frustrating to try and catch ANYTHING in a KI61, but it is the plane you chose, as well as the type of fight you did. It is going to come with those frustrations. I think that fight was the highlight of my day in the game. The rest of the time we were getting jumped by 262s and other pickers who did nothing but run, so I feel your pain.
I complained for years quite loudly about players doing nothing but HOin. Hoping to change there ways by shaming them. I was told to tone it down and accept that this is how the game is played now. I still complain, but nothing like I did in the old days. If this is how the game is to be played, then that is how I will continue to play it...... until they close the doors. Hopefully not too soon. :cry
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edited as it was a waste of time...
No ill will toward you Fugi... What you guys were doing was actual squad tactics
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No it isn't KI-84 is.
I might give it a try. :banana:
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Here's the one thing that fail the KI84, 109, Spitfire, ect ect....yes they are good in a 1v1 situation and they manuever well. But the area where they lack manuevering is at high speed...
Merging with a KI84 above 360 IAS is a NO GO because at that speed it's initial merge is more like a 190F8...which is easy for even a TA152 to out turn, which is where most people don't understand when they see someone turn fighting in a plane like a P51/TA/Mossy or dora they play that high speed turn game to set up angles.
The F4U....exceeds at both high and low speed. It's only area it falls short is acceleration and climb rate. Those 2 can be removed as factors in the MA by ALWAYS flying from the advantage....which a lot of dedicated Hog pilots do and get called TOP Sticks but look like chumps in a 1v1....
In a 1v1 the hog is heavy and fast enough to hold co alt with any prop plane in merge, and at the top when both planes are out of energy....who's going to win??? The Hog who can turn on a dime with full flaps....or the KI84/109 who will need to regain energy to get to it's advantage....and which point the HOG is already in position. I've seen it hundreds of time from both ends, the hog is just a monster.
Don't get me started on the Brewster....where people have an argument where the F4U can be tricky to fly because of the torque related stalls the Brew is like the RV8 but faster and somehow climbs like a beast while having on charts....a terrible climb rate.
Fess,
No your good man, I've had 1v1s with you where you came at me without alt or energy on me.
And the main point I was trying to make is be concious to the players who aren't good in fighters, I know it won't happen 100% of the time but there definitely is a lot of people staying away from the air combat side of the game because they are getting beat up all the time...so they end up in M3s and man guns ect ect.
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I once went to the dueling arena with B17's.....one guy didn't find it amusing.....<S> ALL.
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The 80th used to meet the Muppets off the map in 24s or 17s to dogfight. That was a lot of fun back in those days.
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[Ki84vsF4U-4]In a long sustained gunfight, as long as the F4U maintains energy and speed advantage, they'll win the fight with a Ki-84. If they try and turn with it - it doesn't usually end well for the Corsair.
The problem Junky - with no flaps and at a 200-300 mph turn fight, the Ki-84 will eat up the F4U.
Comparing the Ki-84 and the F4U-4 is like comparing a oval racer with a track car. Both can go on the track, cept the track car is meant for turns every day and the other for going faster in straighter lines. A Nascar CAN go on a track, but it likes the ovals better.[/comparison off]
Junky - back to the topic at hand...this game really hasn't changed much from I've seen in the past 17 years since go live. You're always going to have those who'll mix it up regardless. 4vs1? 4vs4 - 10vs10, 7vs1. Some will die right away at a field being vulch and up again right away. And for a lot of players, it's about getting in the air or in a tank on the ground, engaging targets attacking your field or your carrier. Chatting it up with friends - shouting out check six calls, coordinating incoming targets...etc etc. Aces High 101...no?
And there are some will engage only if they can win. Score-**ores. you know the type - the ones you ranted about. Fly along high. Sniping on the unexpecting. Carrying on with their perfect score. Landing a couple kills every 20 minutes or so. They probably also get manicures not to get their nails damaged. They're not good sticks. Their wusses. Those are the ones who are annoying right?
And then Junky - you have to admit. There are some - regardless of the situation, the ones who wear the funny hats. The sharks in sheeple clothing. They'll enter a furball, and blow everything up in front of them - clear sixes. Give check-six calls and help out a ganged pilot. And then land or 7-8 kills. Or not - maybe they'll just rearm and get up again. They're so bloody good and accurate in their shooting and expert dog fighters that they're kinda scary. You cannot lump them with the 'top sticks' game. They don't care if they live or die when entering a furball. Razer & Lazer, Odee, Frency, Gman, TheBug, Bear, Bruv119... those guys are different ...with funny hats. :)
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[Ki84vsF4U-4]In a long sustained gunfight, as long as the F4U maintains energy and speed advantage, they'll win the fight with a Ki-84. If they try and turn with it - it doesn't usually end well for the Corsair.
The problem Junky - with no flaps and at a 200-300 mph turn fight, the Ki-84 will eat up the F4U.
Comparing the Ki-84 and the F4U-4 is like comparing a oval racer with a track car. Both can go on the track, cept the track car is meant for turns every day and the other for going faster in straighter lines. A Nascar CAN go on a track, but it likes the ovals better.[/comparison off]
Junky - back to the topic at hand...this game really hasn't changed much from I've seen in the past 17 years since go live. You're always going to have those who'll mix it up regardless. 4vs1? 4vs4 - 10vs10, 7vs1. Some will die right away at a field being vulch and up again right away. And for a lot of players, it's about getting in the air or in a tank on the ground, engaging targets attacking your field or your carrier. Chatting it up with friends - shouting out check six calls, coordinating incoming targets...etc etc. Aces High 101...no?
And there are some will engage only if they can win. Score-**ores. you know the type - the ones you ranted about. Fly along high. Sniping on the unexpecting. Carrying on with their perfect score. Landing a couple kills every 20 minutes or so. They probably also get manicures not to get their nails damaged. They're not good sticks. Their wusses. Those are the ones who are annoying right?
And then Junky - you have to admit. There are some - regardless of the situation, the ones who wear the funny hats. The sharks in sheeple clothing. They'll enter a furball, and blow everything up in front of them - clear sixes. Give check-six calls and help out a ganged pilot. And then land or 7-8 kills. Or not - maybe they'll just rearm and get up again. They're so bloody good and accurate in their shooting and expert dog fighters that they're kinda scary. You cannot lump them with the 'top sticks' game. They don't care if they live or die when entering a furball. Razer & Lazer, Odee, Frency, Gman, TheBug, Bear, Bruv119... those guys are different ...with funny hats. :)
Any F4U besides maybe the -1, but even still, will out Maneuver a Ki84 in a 1v1. I've actually proved this before, fighting very good opponents. The MA is a bit different because of initial merge setups and speeds. The F4U has a better lift and roll around than the Ki84, and can still hang in a climb almost as well as the Ki84. The Ki84 is just easier to fly, and that's why people think it can win 1v1 vs a f4U. The F4U in the MA have to fly high alt or higher than enimies or you are pretty much flying it wrong and can get picked and ganged very easily. The F4U is a much easier plane to gang, and is much less reliable on the deck than the Ki84. That's why the Ki84 is a defense plane while the F4U is an attack plane. Most of the time, a Ki84 pilot will beat the F4U pilot in the 1v1, simply because the F4U pilot isn't as up to par as one should be in the F4U, and it's a more challenging plane to hold steady in a 1v1.
Most people think score is about K/D, so they fly super timidly and still don't even score that well, that's not how you really play for score. I die almost 50% of the time, in most cases, becuase I like to get down n dirty and actually get kills, if I can rack up 4-5 kills before I die. Dying doesn't really matter, I still score better than timid flyers who get 1 to 2 kills a sortie and waste all their gas extending from fights and being timid. Most people just haven't played long enough to really understand the dynamics of score.
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I'm a top stick.....my stick sits on top of the desk when I play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What is so unnerving to me is I look at the names in this thread and have come to realize, there are some REALLY good sticks in here. Some I have rarely ever shot down...
YIKES!!!
:bolt:
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I might give it a try. :banana:
Shida is back :banana:
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I complained for years quite loudly about players doing nothing but HOin. Hoping to change there ways by shaming them. I was told to tone it down and accept that this is how the game is played now. I still complain, but nothing like I did in the old days. If this is how the game is to be played, then that is how I will continue to play it...... until they close the doors. Hopefully not too soon. :cry
HO is a legit and documented tactic, especially in aircraft like the Yak 9T. I HO a lot, and can tell you it's not difficult to avoid a HO. IMHO anyone that complains about HOing is just another HOder angry they lost the HO.
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HO is a legit and documented tactic, especially in aircraft like the Yak 9T. I HO a lot, and can tell you it's not difficult to avoid a HO. IMHO anyone that complains about HOing is just another HOder angry they lost the HO.
Seems legit...until you're already engaged wit 1 or more enemies and you get face shot.
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HO is a legit and documented tactic, especially in aircraft like the Yak 9T. I HO a lot, and can tell you it's not difficult to avoid a HO. IMHO anyone that complains about HOing is just another HOder angry they lost the HO.
Completely disagree with this and I'm actually going to make a video explaining the merge and why the HO is what is causing a lot of people to get their butt handed to them.
A lot of people give me crap about calling people out for HOing on 200...what most don't know is I just killed the guy after avoiding it. It's worthless and is luck for 99% of the community, you shouldn't promote or be alright with something that the majority of the time is going to get a player killed or damaged.
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I was alone on the deck and had 6 cons taking swings at me in singles and bunches. Two were so terrified of me they HOd me and damaged my and some. I guess if they had not done that they would all have died. LOL
This was last night.
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Here's the one thing that fail the KI84, 109, Spitfire, ect ect....yes they are good in a 1v1 situation and they manuever well. But the area where they lack manuevering is at high speed...
Pretty Spot On Assessment, Junky
:cheers:
TC
TC I hope you don't mind that I borrowed a quote from you. The only thing I did was change it to be more accurate. :D :cheers:
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Seems legit...until you're already engaged wit 1 or more enemies and you get face shot.
So... you're complaining because a guy that was ganging you gave you the opportunity for a shot? You anti-HO guys are incredibly weird. The problem is not the HO at that point, it is the gang.
A lot of people give me crap about calling people out for HOing on 200...what most don't know is I just killed the guy after avoiding it. It's worthless and is luck for 99% of the community, you shouldn't promote or be alright with something that the majority of the time is going to get a player killed or damaged.
Yes because browbeating a guy about his tactics right after you've killed him is exactly the way to get him to see the error of his ways.
It is worthless. It is also the way about 75% of the people I see on a daily basis merge. The problem I see is people see people complaining about the HO, so they think it has power. They think it works. If more people would work out how to avoid the HO and kill the guy doing it, maybe it would be used less often because unless your gunnery is stellar, it's really not a good strategy.
Wiley.
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Yes because browbeating a guy about his tactics right after you've killed him is exactly the way to get him to see the error of his ways.
It is worthless. It is also the way about 75% of the people I see on a daily basis merge. The problem I see is people see people complaining about the HO, so they think it has power. They think it works. If more people would work out how to avoid the HO and kill the guy doing it, maybe it would be used less often because unless your gunnery is stellar, it's really not a good strategy.
Wiley.
You are partially right. Some folks never learn. They will not ask for help. They will never get better.
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HO is a legit and documented tactic, especially in aircraft like the Yak 9T. I HO a lot, and can tell you it's not difficult to avoid a HO. IMHO anyone that complains about HOing is just another HOder angry they lost the HO.
First of, comparing this GAME with real life tactics is just plan stupid. As soon as you quit flying after your next "death" I'll start listening to you. Second, "if" they went for the HO I'm sure it was a "do or die" situation and had no other choice. Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage.
The problem with the HO in the game is that it is THE ONLY MOVE most players know! Time after time every merge is a lame HO attempt. Can I HO, sure, with 8 50s or a few cannons in my KI a HO is a piece of cake and Im sure I could win more than I loose if I did it ALL the freaking time like some of these guys.
I like to fight. A HO is nothing but a joust, and avoidance of a fight. You dont see players like Tongs and Junky and other skilled players going for HOs. Only the lame skilless players who cant get a kill any other way do it.
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First of, comparing this GAME with real life tactics is just plan stupid. As soon as you quit flying after your next "death" I'll start listening to you. Second, "if" they went for the HO I'm sure it was a "do or die" situation and had no other choice. Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage.
The problem with the HO in the game is that it is THE ONLY MOVE most players know! Time after time every merge is a lame HO attempt. Can I HO, sure, with 8 50s or a few cannons in my KI a HO is a piece of cake and Im sure I could win more than I loose if I did it ALL the freaking time like some of these guys.
I like to fight. A HO is nothing but a joust, and avoidance of a fight. You dont see players like Tongs and Junky and other skilled players going for HOs. Only the lame skilless players who cant get a kill any other way do it.
I have answered their HO on occasion. Like when I am dead slow over the top and either they are still coming at me from below or another is coming at me and I can't maneuver out of the dang way. Then it is just shoot back or sit there and die.
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I killed Rud3boi and Lazer with HO's yesterday in multi plane engagements. I saw an enemy plane in front of me, my guns fire that way, I fired :)
Rud3 got upset. Lazer just thanked me :o
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Lazer bathes in Preparation H so he feels no pain. That is when he bathes. :D
Rud is a yankee. :D
Both of them love Santa and expect on Hos from him.
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HO is legit.
Dad proved it in Nam and returned home safely by using it.
It takes two to HO..............if you don't agree...............try to HO bombers that aren't even maneuvering and you will find it difficult.
HO complainers aren't trying to avoid the HO but they expect the enemy to avoid the HO.
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So... you're complaining because a guy that was ganging you gave you the opportunity for a shot? You anti-HO guys are incredibly weird. The problem is not the HO at that point, it is the gang.
To be fair it is usually LilMak that is ganging me and yes I do face shoot him with the 37mm at the first oppotunity. Flying through the vapour cloud of an enemies remains is ncredibly satisfying. I also find a smaller airframe with a bigger gun is significantly advantaged in a HO :devil
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First of, comparing this GAME with real life tactics is just plan stupid. As soon as you quit flying after your next "death" I'll start listening to you. Second, "if" they went for the HO I'm sure it was a "do or die" situation and had no other choice. Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage.
Yak 9T:
- small airframe hard to hit. Quite a tough we bird too.
- 37mm centerline nose cannon can lob holy hand grenades a couple of K's out
- relatively underpowered and nose heavy compared to contemporary airframes
- Not the best turner either
- Bleeds E like a small boat dropping a big anchor
Now you said: "Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage."
Think about it.
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I used to get livid at being ho'd, then I decided its gonna be what its gonna be. What still ticks me off is being in a 1v1, with almost no one around and the only other bad guy decides to pick you. Kind of defeats the purpose of a 1v1 but...
boo
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I whined about a HO shot today from a Spit16. :o
Whilst I know better sometimes it gets tiresome when your fighting 2, 3 , 4 guys at once and that is the first option people take instead of doing the next step up of extending until their buddy saddles up and then turning around when you break. Of course they are all valid tactics but one must attempt to see the light and try and master more advanced ACM to become a better pilot.
Otherwise your KPH and awesomeness will suffer greatly by seeking the easy way out of the fight.
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Yak 9T:
- small airframe hard to hit. Quite a tough we bird too.
- 37mm centerline nose cannon can lob holy hand grenades a couple of K's out
- relatively underpowered and nose heavy compared to contemporary airframes
- Not the best turner either
- Bleeds E like a small boat dropping a big anchor
Now you said: "Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage."
Think about it.
The quoted line was in reference to real pilots, not us who play a game.
In a game where the idea is compete in an air combat situation why wouldn't you try to "fight"...... think about it.
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The quoted line was in reference to real pilots, not us who play a game.
In a game where the idea is compete in an air combat situation why wouldn't you try to "fight"...... think about it.
Do you not get how much pleasure/entertainment I derive from you everytime you cry from a HO?
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Do you not get how much pleasure/entertainment I derive from you everytime you cry from a HO?
Do you understand how much like a little girl you sound when ever you open your mouth? :D
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Second, "if" they went for the HO I'm sure it was a "do or die" situation and had no other choice. Any competent fighter pilot would maneuver for a shot that would give himself the highest rate of success with the lowest possibility of taking any damage.
I can't remember if there has ever been a discussion on the validity of the HO as a real life tactic on this board before.
Oh...wait...yes I can....we have had such discussions.
Why, way back on May 24, 2007, 10:43:54 AM there was this:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206283.msg2442377.html#msg2442377
I met this gentleman at his Flight School Class's (43-C) reunion, held at our CAF hangar. These guys all started in PT-19's and we got 3 -19's together to give them all rides.
Dick Hewitt engaged two FW-190's (on separate missons) with true HO tactics. His comment to me was "we couldn't let them get to the bombers".
Read his book: " Target of Opportunity - Tales and Contrails of the Second World War"
Richard A. Hewitt, a second year college engineering student in New York State, like so many Americans after the December 7, 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, chose to volunteer for service to his country. He joined the Army Air Corps in February, 1942. As a member of the Army Aviation Cadet Class, 43-C, Dick was commissioned as a second Lieutenant and received his wings on March 23, 1943.
After further training, he was assigned in the ETO to the 78th Fighter Group, 82nd Fighter Squadron, stationed at Duxford, Cambridgeshire, England, in September, 1943. Dick flew a total of 144 combat missions, combining a total of 400 hours of combat in the P-47 Thunderbolt and P-51 Mustang fighter aircraft.
During his combat tours with the 82nd, spanning over two years, he was credited with 8.3 victories, including 4 in the air; promoted to the rank of Major; awarded the Air Medal with 17 oak leaf clusters, awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross with 4 oak leaf clusters, and the Silver Star. He commanded the 82nd Fighter Squadron from March, 1945 through June, 1945.
So was the HO a valid tactic used in WW2? YEP. There's statements that 16 of Dick Bong's victories were from HO attacks. Anybody think Bong was a "competent fighter pilot?
Now, is this Real Life? Do we have to protect the bombers at all costs? Nope. It's a game.
Probably pointless to compare RL to an online game. If something is in the game, people will do it/ use it.
As for the endless HO discussions: plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
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After many years of avoiding HO shots, I have joined the club. Certain times, like when you aren't fast and end up FQ to FQ, you can either dodge and get drilled or take the shot. I always used to die in this scenario by being "honorable" and not HOing. Other times like being outnumbered, or faced with a plane that is better in every way than yours and he wants to BnZ/E fight you. Those are legit IMO.
Also a certain F4U pilot who doesn't use tracers blazes away on FQ shots from 600+ out, even while holding all the advantages. Because of this. I reserve the right to HO any F4U at any time.
No need for concern though, my HO-Fu is terrible. Lost a HO to a Ki-84 the other night. While flying a 410. :old:
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So... you're complaining because a guy that was ganging you gave you the opportunity for a shot? You anti-HO guys are incredibly weird. The problem is not the HO at that point, it is the gang.
Yes because browbeating a guy about his tactics right after you've killed him is exactly the way to get him to see the error of his ways.
It is worthless. It is also the way about 75% of the people I see on a daily basis merge. The problem I see is people see people complaining about the HO, so they think it has power. They think it works. If more people would work out how to avoid the HO and kill the guy doing it, maybe it would be used less often because unless your gunnery is stellar, it's really not a good strategy.
Wiley.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think me doing that is working on the majority out there, like you said some probably see it as it has some credibility....which is why I want to make a video on HOs.
As far as it takes 2 to HO....HO is a Head on pass....where does it say it has to be nose to nose guns blazing???
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HO complainers aren't trying to avoid the HO but they expect the enemy to avoid the HO.
That's the feeling I get. I'll go ahead and send a few rounds out early when I see someone is coming in for it, if they stay on path I'll take the shot.
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F4Us...minus the 1D have higher K/Ds then most of the planeset...throwing that out there :D
Easy Mode confirmed.
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I love turning a low fuel D11 around on the deck.... But the pickers never fail to fly through and take potshots at the fat low Jug. So it's just not worth the time to fly into a low fight. starting high and fighting to the deck is the way I prefer to fight then if I can scoot out after with all my parts.. It's a plus.
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I disagree...
:banana:
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I love turning a low fuel D11 around on the deck.... But the pickers never fail to fly through and take potshots at the fat low Jug. So it's just not worth the time to fly into a low fight. starting high and fighting to the deck is the way I prefer to fight then if I can scoot out after with all my parts.. It's a plus.
Some of the best fun in the game. For added challenge, try the same trick in a 190A8.
For real picker drawing power, fly a 110 or a 38 though. They'll run past a money printing machine, an all you can eat pie smorgasbord, and a brothel to shoot at a low slow 110.
Wiley.
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Junky - sometimes I HO just to get the other pilot into a disadvantage merge position. I know I have a zero chance in hell of hitting them - but they don't know that and then position themselves out of the path of my fire stream. Other times it's again about positioning advantage - I'll try off-centre shots to get the other pilot to react (or over-react) - again, positioning.
I never enter a merge to HO kill - unless I'm in a Bf-110G2, Fw-190A8, Tiffy, or Hurri-IIC/D. Then if you wanna HO, you're an igiot. Though I did run into a situation years ago where I was in a 110, and so was the opposing player. We both went poof. :D
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Gentlemen. It appears I have made two conclusions based on the information provided in this thread.
1. When Junky is liquored up don't give him access to the forums. :rock
2. Corsair pilotz will never admit that their ride leans towards the EZ mode side of the meter. :neener:
Thank you all for participating! Canada signing out.
:cheers:
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Corsair has the most versatile flight envelope in the game. Everywhere from high speed BnZ to stallfighting. Wonderful plane.
Fork- I have to admit one of my happiest memories in this game was watching a 110G come at me from 6k out looking for the HO, and HOing him down in my Zeke without taking a ping. You've gotta hit em to hurt em.
Wiley.
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Gentlemen. It appears I have made two conclusions based on the information provided in this thread.
1. When Junky is liquored up don't give him access to the forums. :rock
2. Corsair pilotz will never admit that their ride leans towards the EZ mode side of the meter. :neener:
Thank you all for participating! Canada signing out.
:cheers:
I consider those both correct :aok
Corsair has the most versatile flight envelope in the game. Everywhere from high speed BnZ to stallfighting. Wonderful plane.
Wiley gets it!!! :aok
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If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a HO! :old:
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I think the Hog variants are the best overall ride in the game, and my choice for 1 vs 1 against anything, obviously. They can outrun what they can't out-turn, and out-turn what they can't outrun.
Its weaknesses are severe though. Everyone in this thread knows a low, slow or engaged F4U is an easy kill. It's a huge, hard-to-miss air frame with poor visibility, making it ripe for picking, and therefore usually everybody's prime target.
Acceleration is weak, so it's difficult to equalize an energy disadvantage or recover from a mistake. Once you drop flaps you're a sitting duck for everyone and his brother. Fighting multiple cons without holding a clear energy advantage is all but impossible IMO. I think I can hold my own against most, but it's a rare day I beat 2 or more cons at once.
Sure, if you can be disciplined (read: timid) and keep up your SA, the Hog is the jack of all trades. If you run into superior numbers, you're toast.
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Hopefully one day the FM for the F4Us will be fixed.
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Hopefully one day the FM for the F4Us will be fixed.
Whats wrong with it?
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Whats wrong with it?
For one Human use of Alien technology wasn't available until the post WW2 Roswell incident. Hence making the AH Corsair flight model impossible! :old:
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For one Human use of Alien technology wasn't available until the post WW2 Roswell incident. Hence making the AH Corsair flight model impossible! :old:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/50be0c35-e651-4eef-b122-c8edccb824f6.png~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/50be0c35-e651-4eef-b122-c8edccb824f6.png.html)
"Mister Pipz, that's not entirely correct."
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH%20motivationals/hoverflaps.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/AH%20motivationals/hoverflaps.jpg.html)
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For one Human use of Alien technology wasn't available until the post WW2 Roswell incident. Hence making the AH Corsair flight model impossible! :old:
Aces High is coming up on 18 years of being here since it went beta, back in 1999, and these claims of the F4U flight model/modeling being "wrong" "inaccurate" "has Hoover Flaps" etc etc etc has been whined about for just as long!
Knowing the Perfectionist that Dale / hitech, is known to be, when it comes to his work and game.... Would you not think that if something was wrong that hitech would have addressed the problem and fixed it by now?
Keep on beating this dead horse..... I'm sure you can't make it any worse and I figure hitech gets a big ol gut busting chuckle every time he sees this topic about the "F4U flight modeling is inaccurate", pop up on the message boards for the 40,000th time
:rofl :D :x :airplane:
TC
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What is junkyII yapping about? I'm just average and I shoot him down regularly. Maybe he is eating to much cake - lol
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LOL I fly the so called Uber Pony...... alt no alt.. I cant hit watermelon and get my arnold handed to me nearly every time.
but, hey im having fun thats all that matters. :)
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What is junkyII yapping about? I'm just average and I shoot him down regularly. Maybe he is eating to much cake - lol
:rofl
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I think the Hog variants are the best overall ride in the game, and my choice for 1 vs 1 against anything, obviously. They can outrun what they can't out-turn, and out-turn what they can't outrun.
Its weaknesses are severe though. Everyone in this thread knows a low, slow or engaged F4U is an easy kill. It's a huge, hard-to-miss air frame with poor visibility, making it ripe for picking, and therefore usually everybody's prime target.
Acceleration is weak, so it's difficult to equalize an energy disadvantage or recover from a mistake. Once you drop flaps you're a sitting duck for everyone and his brother. Fighting multiple cons without holding a clear energy advantage is all but impossible IMO. I think I can hold my own against most, but it's a rare day I beat 2 or more cons at once.
Sure, if you can be disciplined (read: timid) and keep up your SA, the Hog is the jack of all trades. If you run into superior numbers, you're toast.
This is coming from a real true solid Hog pilot right here. :salute
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What is junkyII yapping about? I'm just average and I shoot him down regularly. Maybe he is eating to much cake - lol
Yea and I'm sure it's like 95% of my deaths....with a bunch of friends to help you out..which is OK, not many of the active pool can beat me 1v1 these days....which is sad because I haven't got any better, if anything worse. :aok
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Whats wrong with it?
I don't know if this is what Ack-Ack meant, but according to Widewing's F4U-flying friend although the stall speed is correct in a real life it is extremely demanding to fly the aircraft in that regime. In AH you can essentially hold the stick back to the stop at the flat stall. Thus although the stall speed is correct, the ease of holding it there is questionable.
Keep on beating this dead horse..... I'm sure you can't make it any worse and I figure hitech gets a big ol gut busting chuckle every time he sees this topic about the "F4U flight modeling is inaccurate", pop up on the message boards for the 40,000th time
Could keep coming up because it is not unfounded.
Would you not think that if something was wrong that hitech would have addressed the problem and fixed it by now?
Rather depends on a lot of factors doesn't it? Perhaps Mr. Tech is unwilling to examine or uninterested in the difficult issue of quantifying a qualitative performance mismatch. Of course the report from the real pilot is anecdotal. Statistical data is comparitivly trivial to match. Perhaps the Corsair is his personal favourite. Perhaps he would not wish to alienate the customers of a popular plane. Difficult to change for the worse once established, no? They'd have a valid point of complaint.
I'd also like to add Simon is a top F4U stick and a gentleman toboot. I myself have seldom flown AH's F4U, but they did constitute about a third of my opponents during my early furbal lake obsession phase. A worthy advesory for any Ki-84 specialist. Certainly made me a better cartoon stick, trying to fight their fight. The two biggest dangers I found being its extremely tight turn radius (exceeding the Hayate, even boards out) and its fantastic energy retention which can be used to counter a superior power-loading. Their ability to drop that nose when slow then scoop enough airspeed to turn it vert and hang there for a long shot was formidable.
My favourite opponent actually. Always admired the AH hog specialists. A lot of skill hard-earned.
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I am a firm believer of the UF4UO... but the point you bought up about pilot reports is as you anecdotal purely for the reason of flight time comparisons.... had a real pilot had as much flight time as some of the sticks in this game the abilities show could possibly have been recorded as such.... that or there would be a heap of guys with one really large arm and a body and brain destroyed by excessive forces being endured. And that goes for all aircraft used in game
That being said....The chances of finding somebody willing to show the amazing capabilities of this and many other airframes has diminished considerably....we now see and know an airframes top speed and how long it can endure said speed so the speed charts are the thing to study these days... yes...I am being a cynical bastid!!! :D
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Would you not think that if something was wrong that hitech would have addressed the problem and fixed it by now?
yes...I am being a cynical bastid!!! :D
I think the cynical person would say that even if there was an issue over many many years you would never hear hitech admit to anything but perfection. It is what separates him from the other games, sorry simulations, of the era. He will steadfastly tell you he is correct no matter what. And if he will not come out and say it, FLS will chime in with a 1 line comment that is a much use as a chocolate fireplace. Of course that is if you are a cynical person.
Since I am not such a person I would say the flight models are perfect sir and never in need of changing. All patches are to enhance the game and never ever to fix anything....ever....sir.
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I am a firm believer of the UF4UO... but the point you bought up about pilot reports is as you anecdotal purely for the reason of flight time comparisons.... had a real pilot had as much flight time as some of the sticks in this game the abilities show could possibly have been recorded as such....
The only caveat to that being that some AH aircraft, such as the earlier Fw190s do have qualitively difficult flight characteristics modelled at the point of departure. From what Widewing recounted I got the impression the F4U ought to be more toward that end of the spectrum.
Probably impractical to change it now anyway. Just a shame some other aircraft can't be more charitably modelled as well in other areas. For balance.
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LOL just stuck my head in to see if anything has changed the past couple of years.. Nope. :D
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LOL just stuck my head in to see if anything has changed the past couple of years.. Nope. :D
...Something's have brother. :aok
Get back!
<S>
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Sometimes I am in a jet ...
now you're just bragging. I wish I had enough perks to buy a jet. :bolt:
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... had a real pilot had as much flight time as some of the sticks in this game the abilities show could possibly have been recorded as such....
Junky, shida, pipz, rabbit, Tequila, et al... -->SPKmes hit on the nail on the head with this comment.
If Aces High can be used a perhaps the premiere avionics engineering test platform for WWII planes (and IMHO, it's right up there with DCS), here's a fact that most of us can't ignore...
Some of us here have more time in cockpit flying the variants of our favourite rides the past 18 years that any pilot during WWII.
And while Aces High is not perfect - it doesn't simulate part failures, other environmental conditions that impact flying, or does it take into account pilot fatigue, being able to do loops with bombs attached, it's pretty dang good for what it does - provide us an environment to fly aircraft from the WWII period with a wide range of abilities and characteristics modelled into this game.
For example, I've flown the P-51 for 18 years here in Aces High since Beta1. I know how it acts, i know how it stalls, I know how to maximize a climb out heavy, and the same goes for other variants I've flown. The 109-G2/F4, 190-D9, Tiffy, the Yak-9, F6F, F4U-1D, and the P-47D-40. I've flown these birds for years when they were first introduced here. And some of you have thousands of hours per aircraft. i.e. Tequila and pipz probably have more hours than any WWII pilot ever accumulated in a single variant.
My point is this - it does make us experts in the flying characteristics of many of these aircraft in this environment. And when someone with experience in a variant says 'it's fine' - believe it. It may not be 100% realistic, but with respect to Aces High, give credit where credit is due. When Ack-Ack, Pipz, or Tequila says the model is fine...it is. Just saying.
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When Ack-Ack, Pipz, or Tequila says the model is fine...it is. Just saying.
Haven't been on this forum for a while, and already a strangely familiar Twilight Zone feeling is upon me :rofl
That 'fact' isn't relevant when discussing a qualitive disparity in flight modelling with the real world. The performance or limitations of AH in general is besides the point. Differences in stall characeristics are, after all, readily apparent between AH aircraft.
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Haven't been on this forum for a while, and already a strangely familiar Twilight Zone feeling is upon me :rofl
That 'fact' isn't relevant when discussing a qualitive disparity in flight modelling with the real world. The performance or limitations of AH in general is besides the point. Differences in stall characeristics are, after all, readily apparent between AH aircraft.
The problem is, I highly doubt there was a single instance of a guy with a metric buttload of hours in it flying an F4U IRL anywhere near to how people stallfight it in here. Seems to me about the only reliable thing anybody has to go on is math.
Wiley.
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from: Mister Fork on Today at 01:16:48 PM
When Ack-Ack, Pipz, or Tequila says the model is fine...it is. Just saying.
Have they flown these airplanes? I'm sure akak has done his reserch, but this post was absolutly obsurd.
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Hey Fork,
When Tongs posted regarding the difference in how many flight hours real life pilots had in any particular airframe compared to the massive amount of hours, us wannabe fighter pilots might have, did don on me, while I was typing out my previous post....
Had the real life pilots had the ability to have access to today's technology, or even had access to flight simulators available to them back in WWII, like what I had the opportunity to practice in back in the 1980's, I could see where they would have the ability to practice/train repeatedly without fear of loss of life.....and would have been able to push the boundaries of a particular plane's flight envelope....
With regards to hitech and his desire to have the most accurate flight modeling for his flight simulator/aircombat game.... he never has claimed that everything is perfect and hitech has always welcomed all comers to present fact proven evidence that there might be a problem or something off with any certain plane's flight modeling/performance/characteristics..... if fact based proof is offered/presented, hitech would be first in line to address and fix the discrepancy....
TC
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Who said the Corsair has limited visibility? Bahahhahahahahhahah If ya buy that I have a bridge to sell you. He best been talkin bout the birdcage hog and not the 1A,C,U4. The ones we always see. Not only is the visibility good the gunsight is placed in a excellent position.
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. When Ack-Ack, Pipz, or Tequila says the model is fine...it is. Just saying.
OMG. Thanks but no! I would never compare the time I kill in this game with someone operating a real piece of equipment in the real world. Just because I watch NASCAR on tv doesn't mean I can do it!
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The problem is, I highly doubt there was a single instance of a guy with a metric buttload of hours in it flying an F4U IRL anywhere near to how people stallfight it in here. Seems to me about the only reliable thing anybody has to go on is math.
Wiley.
Are you saying that the long-term AH players are ruining realism? Those barstards (actually, I'm now one of those barstards). I do see your point, however I've been supposing an experienced real-life airshow pilot can tulips and describe the stall characteristics in a similar way to how you can feel what a car will do at the limit of traction. That usually only takes matter of minutes, absence of policemen and twisty road-availability permitting :D
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if fact based proof is offered/presented, hitech would be first in line to address and fix the discrepancy....
But what about evidence?
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Are you saying that the long-term AH players are ruining realism? Those barstards (actually, I'm now one of those barstards). I do see your point, however I've been supposing an experienced real-life airshow pilot can tulips and describe the stall characteristics in a similar way to how you can feel what a car will do at the limit of traction. That usually only takes matter of minutes, absence of policemen and twisty road-availability permitting :D
I don't think they're ruining anything. It's just the simple fact that in here, if you give the plane the same control inputs under the same conditions in game, you'll get exactly the same result because it's all based on math. In the real world, there are a gabillion more variables that make it less predictable and therefore less easy to ride the absolute edge.
Yeah, I see what you're saying about the car thing, lord knows I've experimented with physics on some back roads now and again. ;) But even still, an airshow pilot or guy in his car's still got the whole "self preservation" thing as well as the whole, "might damage the vehicle doing something ridiculous" thing going on in his head and is probably not going to be doing that sort of thing as often as we do in here.
Wiley.
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In the real world, there are a gabillion more variables that make it less predictable and therefore less easy to ride the absolute edge.
An approximation for sure. Close enough is close enough...
Yeah, I see what you're saying about the car thing, lord knows I've experimented with physics on some back roads now and again. ;)
Not me Wiley, I drive like a vicar. I have no idea what you're talking about. I think I should probably call the police. Which state do you live in?
But even still, an airshow pilot or guy in his car's still got the whole "self preservation" thing as well as the whole, "might damage the vehicle doing something ridiculous" thing going on in his head and is probably not going to be doing that sort of thing as often as we do in here.
Just figure they'd be skillful enough to get it back quick and leave enough margin to shreck around with it. That's how you find the limits with everything I supposed. I once had a gliding lesson and I asked him what happens if it stalls. He showed me. I also stood next to a Corsair and Gary Numan one day at Duxford. The Corsair was huge and the Gary Numan was tiny. He did not look docile at the stall.
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An approximation for sure. Close enough is close enough...
But the envelope we're talking about is where the small differences between the real thing and the approximation become evident, possibly even glaringly so.
Not me Wiley, I drive like a vicar. I have no idea what you're talking about. I think I should probably call the police. Which state do you live in?
Wrong country, and statute of limitations has long since expired. I got over my invincibility phase pretty quickly, fortunately without even a close call.
Just figure they'd be skillful enough to get it back quick and leave enough margin to shreck around with it. That's how you find the limits with everything I supposed. I once had a gliding lesson and I asked him what happens if it stalls. He showed me. I also stood next to a Corsair and Gary Numan one day at Duxford. The Corsair was huge and the Gary Numan was tiny. He did not look docile at the stall.
Hey, could be. That's also not in a dirty combat configuration though either. Just saying it's unlikely that one would see video or telemetry of a combat configured F4U stalling itself out full flaps out 500 feet ASL on a regular basis, so it comes down to best guesses or math at best.
Wiley.
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...and ya'll know that Dale owns an 'airshow' performance plane right? So the guy who designed the flight models for the F4U variants himself is also an experienced pilot. Also with thousands and thousands of hours of 'simulator' time. And we've got pilots and former fighter pilots here up the wazoo - all who say our flight model is 'purdy darn guud'.
Personally, I've been 'simming' since 1984 on my ole trusty C-64 - that's 33 years. But some of you are waaaay older than me. :D
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I roadraced motorcycles and crashed 47 times. You cannot find the absolute edge of the envelope unless you exceed it, then you back off just a smidgen.
You don't get 47 crashes in an airplane in Real Life. Ever.
I have 6,427,328,987,001 crashes in AH and not a scratch on me.
I do think in RL pilots pushed their plane's to the absolute limits when it was a choice of dying to their enemies guns or doing absolutely everything possible to live. Not over and over, but I would have tried absolutely everything to live, including crying like a little girl.
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...and ya'll know that Dale owns an 'airshow' performance plane right?
Ummmm...an RV-8 isn't an Extra 300. But, then again, neither is a P-51.
You don't get 47 crashes in an airplane in Real Life. Ever.
Maybe not but ole Jimmie Doolittle walked away from 5 or 6 if memory serves. So it can happen.
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You cannot find the absolute edge of the envelope unless you exceed it, then you back off just a smidgen.
Agreed. And knowing where it is means you don't have to step fully over it when needed.
You don't get 47 crashes in an airplane in Real Life. Ever.
Stall doesn't automatically mean crash though. On a motorbike it's just much more likely :old:
What was this thing called in the real world again? The "Ensign Preservator" wasn't it? :rofl
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I roadraced motorcycles and crashed 47 times. You cannot find the absolute edge of the envelope unless you exceed it, then you back off just a smidgen.
You don't get 47 crashes in an airplane in Real Life. Ever.
When pushing the envelope of a bike you are damn lucky to have walked away 47 times...Damn man...How much metal do you have in you
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When pushing the envelope of a bike you are damn lucky to have walked away 47 times...Damn man...How much metal do you have in you
It's not the crashing and falling off the bike that hurts! It's that sudden stop at the end that does the damage..... :devil
Ask Zoney but most crashes you just walk away from unless you hit something or someone hits you,then again there no accounting for grinding off a finger or two when you go down... :devil
Again ask Zoney......... :rofl :rofl :rofl
:salute
PS: When asked about the different planes I always say the same thing! They're all the same,2 wings and a prop,well some have 2 props and 2 dont have any but I digress,they are for the most part all the same,some just do some things better than others! If you are having difficulties fighting a certain plane,dont blame the plane or pilot,it's time to rethink how you are trying to fight that plane!
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I was very lucky. I got one mangled looking wrist that hurts all the time but works fine. And the ground off pinky ain't ever going to grow back.
I only cared about one thing, winning. I wasn't there for the spirit of the competition, I was there to take first place, only. I was willing to risk it all, but I wasn't there to endanger other riders. That was also a fine line. I kept the first place trophies, the others I threw in the trash when I got home every time.
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I was willing to risk it all
:rofl
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What was this thing called in the real world again? The "Ensign Preservator" wasn't it?
FWIW (perhaps not much), I always thought that the Corsair and the P-38 were two of the most difficult AH planes to fly well. The people here who are good in them have flown them quite a lot, so that they've overcome that learning curve. Could be that a lot of real world ensigns and lieutenants didn't have that chance.
- oldman
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...Something's have brother. :aok
Get back!
<S>
Hoping life will allow that in the foreseeable future.
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LOL just stuck my head in to see if anything has changed the past couple of years.. Nope. :D
Hello there Shifty :cheers:
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Good ta see ya shifty!
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Could be that a lot of real world ensigns and lieutenants didn't have that chance.
I was laughing at the selective suppression of evidence by some members of the forum. No disrepect to those who were killed or injured flying the real beast in wartime :salute
Watch out for that Zoney character though. Claims he'd cry like a girl to save his life in wartime, ground his Rameses Niblick off on the tarmac for more trophies and now has a titanium-hydraulic one. :eek:
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I was laughing at the selective suppression of evidence by some members of the forum. No disrepect to those who were killed or injured flying the real beast in wartime :salute
Watch out for that Zoney character though. Claims he'd cry like a girl to save his life in wartime, ground his Rameses Niblick off on the tarmac for more trophies and now has a titanium-hydraulic one. :eek:
:uhoh
Just had a visual... (can't get it out of my head)...
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Hoping life will allow that in the foreseeable future.
I hope so too!
<S>
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:uhoh
Just had a visual... (can't get it out of my head)...
Dang.....me too..........ouch ouch ouch ouch
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Our game rides are fly-by-wire and we get a perfect flawless build every time we re-spawn.
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Our game rides are fly-by-wire and we get a perfect flawless build every time we re-spawn.
Hey they modeled in the delay so it's not fly-by-wire
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Gary Numan knows his ACM having been a display aerobatic pilot.
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I upped a Spit 1 in NDisles TT they other day still guys passed me up like I stank of raw sewage.
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I upped a Spit 1 in NDisles TT they other day still guys passed me up like I stank of raw sewage.
Bruv, they zoomed in and saw your squad art/squad nose art, haha
remove your nose art, and upload something like "Newb flying here!" or some such nonsense, then they would all be attacking you
hehehehe
TC
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maybe the pink skin was a little too much. :D
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It amazes me. People don't like the way the others fly? (lmao, U F k in p sssysssss ) Yet, these hard line complainers are not paying the monthly fees of the ones they dislike nor do they get to decide how anyone flies. LMAO
We are all targets in the MA arena!. I suggest a few people on this board need to re-evaluate, and learn that.
Most suck at it!
Think I can't kill ya?
Gard06
:airplane:
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It amazes me. People don't like the way the others fly? (lmao, U F k in p sssysssss ) Yet, these hard line complainers are not paying the monthly fees of the ones they dislike nor do they get to decide how anyone flies. LMAO
We are all targets in the MA arena!. I suggest a few people on this board need to re-evaluate, and learn that.
Most suck at it!
Think I can't kill ya?
Gard06
:airplane:
This guy don't get it.