General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hgtonyvi on May 18, 2017, 10:20:23 PM
Title: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: hgtonyvi on May 18, 2017, 10:20:23 PM
Please get that out of here.....For crying out load we are flying prop planes not freaking Jets man........No problem having that map if we had a Jet arena.....come on think!......Most log out or complain when they see that map........ :furious :furious
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: cav58d on May 18, 2017, 10:58:34 PM
It's just awful.
Had a good time tonight in the DA followed by extreme pilot challenges in the TA. <S> Varciu!
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 18, 2017, 11:05:53 PM
Had a good time tonight in the DA followed by extreme pilot challenges in the TA. <S> Varciu!
Same here. And agree with Rudeboi above.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LocoMoto on May 18, 2017, 11:09:26 PM
10 minute climb outs for what seems like moments of action unless you uber troll defending bases and then good luck gaining much alt against astronauts:)
20minute flights for buffs avoiding the extremely large mountains on climbouts that generaly take you 10-15 miles off course in certain areas of the map.
Now you have your vertran guys who will chime in but for the average joe its not a lot of fun. As for me I dont mind themap. When numbers are low really adds pressure to push bases under their nose. Free base that is.... :x
With normal numbers its hard to push more than a base or two before a country catches on a begins to focus on that front again until someone wears oit.
With high numbers its just a cluster jam with no organized strategy that usually ends with a side rolling for a few hours and then mass loggings.
Is what it is :bhead
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LilMak on May 18, 2017, 11:23:42 PM
Even the 9k bases you still have to climb to get out of. This is the worst map in my tenure playing the game. If Dale's goal is to sabotage his own game...it's working.
This map SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PULL IT FROM THE ROTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Slate on May 18, 2017, 11:24:39 PM
These maps to me are like modern art, I just don't see the creativity. I think what is hurting this game is what I found fascinating when I first joined, the immersion of fighting in WW2. It has lost the feeling for me that had so much promise with the new graphics. I want to burst open a speeding train with my rockets, house to house fights with my tank in tank town city, defend a 30 plane bomber formation deep in enemy territory. When Trinity died it took AH's soul with it.
IMOP :salute
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 18, 2017, 11:28:09 PM
Someone sad bring back Fester and dump this. I agree.
I also saw a Solomon Islands map someone had over in Free. If you could reduce the grid numbers on that one (zoom in) I could see it being a lot of fun.
Beating a dead horse, but Buzzsaw is horrible. It's just not helping things. :salute
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Dundee on May 18, 2017, 11:36:44 PM
Someone sad bring back Fester and dump this. I agree.
I also saw a Solomon Islands map someone had over in Free. If you could reduce the grid numbers on that one (zoom in) I could see it being a lot of fun.
Beating a dead horse, but Buzzsaw is horrible. It's just not helping things. :salute
The Fester Map would be a welcome sight
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: lyric1 on May 18, 2017, 11:40:52 PM
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Devil 505 on May 18, 2017, 11:41:56 PM
Why bother waiting for a replacement map to be ready?
Just dump Buzzsaw ASAP - addition via subtraction. :aok
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 18, 2017, 11:53:46 PM
What is worse than playing Buzzkill? Is having to play Buzzkill twice because Hitech reset-ed it after patch release. :rofl
Map plain SUCKS, climb ... fight (maybe) then climb again to go home. Terrain is so poor you see green and blue at 15K, like playing FALCON in CGA all over again :joystick: :lol
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Squire on May 19, 2017, 12:30:01 AM
It's a sucky map. Please get rid of it.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: pembquist on May 19, 2017, 12:48:08 AM
I'm almost getting the feeling that people don't like this map.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 19, 2017, 01:39:31 AM
ABSOLUTELY! Not sure it is very good with low numbers but I feel like it generated some of the best fights I've had in some time. I don't particularly like Buzzsaw, but that's only because people leave as soon as a country gets an upper hand.What I don't understand is the obsession with "its not realistic"! What is wrong with having a quick drive to a strat? Should appease the strategy/pork players, GV fight any one(at strats)? That's 2 excuses down. As far as furballers go, its fairly easy to pick a fightI have no trouble finding fights on Buzzsaw. Of coarse I am relatively new to AH and can understand why most old time players don't like it. I haven't reached that level, where it much different than any other terrain/fight styles on maps. If you aren't GVing, why would you gripe about the terrain's design? Furballers do their thing in the air. Plus, most guys climb to 20k before entering a fight anyway. Pretty sure that time is more than enough to cancel out mountain issues? I don't know who made this map, but a lot of effort was put into its creation. I have yet to see a post about Buzzsaw that wasn't just pure nagging. Whats wrong with a, Thanks brother. Appreciate the effort, but I just don't care for this or that. Thought out and articulated as to what you see as a problem would get more changes, over complaints with just criticism. At least I think so. True, it is a bit difficult taking of at high alt bases in some elite/favorite rides but combat was never without its complications. What if we had massive cloud cover or weather and wind effects at every altitude? That WOULD jump up the realism factor for sure, but AH doesn't have that and this is close to being just as hindering to players. This is a sim you know? Do something different, its a great map for that!
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: BBQsam on May 19, 2017, 02:55:57 AM
I like this Buzz map. I like AH. I like Hitech Hitech likes this map. Hitech likes me.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: NatCigg on May 19, 2017, 03:38:15 AM
ABSOLUTELY! Not sure it is very good with low numbers but I feel like it generated some of the best fights I've had in some time. I don't particularly like Buzzsaw, but that's only because people leave as soon as a country gets an upper hand.What I don't understand is the obsession with "its not realistic"! What is wrong with having a quick drive to a strat? Should appease the strategy/pork players, GV fight any one(at strats)? That's 2 excuses down. As far as furballers go, its fairly easy to pick a fightI have no trouble finding fights on Buzzsaw. Of coarse I am relatively new to AH and can understand why most old time players don't like it. I haven't reached that level, where it much different than any other terrain/fight styles on maps. If you aren't GVing, why would you gripe about the terrain's design? Furballers do their thing in the air. Plus, most guys climb to 20k before entering a fight anyway. Pretty sure that time is more than enough to cancel out mountain issues? I don't know who made this map, but a lot of effort was put into its creation. I have yet to see a post about Buzzsaw that wasn't just pure nagging. Whats wrong with a, Thanks brother. Appreciate the effort, but I just don't care for this or that. Thought out and articulated as to what you see as a problem would get more changes, over complaints with just criticism. At least I think so. True, it is a bit difficult taking of at high alt bases in some elite/favorite rides but combat was never without its complications. What if we had massive cloud cover or weather and wind effects at every altitude? That WOULD jump up the realism factor for sure, but AH doesn't have that and this is close to being just as hindering to players. This is a sim you know? Do something different, its a great map for that!
Most guys climb to 20K any way?
What game you playing, bro?
Most of us have said kudos to the map maker for his efforts, but the frustration level mitigates that now. People want it gone and in our increasing annoyance with this map saying thanks for trying isn't on the radar.
Certainly no animosity is intended toward the guy who made the thing. With more numbers perhaps it would/did work--but it doesn't right now.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Joker on May 19, 2017, 07:53:06 AM
In all my years in this game I have never gotten on here and complained about a map. But this one is so bad I have to make an exception. I agree with those who want it pulled.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: ACE on May 19, 2017, 07:57:51 AM
I log in and see buzzsaw I log right back out. Maps garbage. Sorry for the developer..
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: bozon on May 19, 2017, 08:33:39 AM
I have not logged in yet, but it is Friday! please remove this map before I log on for my precious few hours in AH! PLEASE!! :pray
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: cav58d on May 19, 2017, 09:05:45 AM
And if buzzsaw couldn't be worse, now cruisers and climbing hills and LVT's spawning in some third world between land and water.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Becinhu on May 19, 2017, 10:55:06 AM
The worst part other than the climb out over the ridge line is once you engage you have to climb the ridge again to disengage. It sucks for all involved but you have one side that has to climb out and then drop alt to engage and the egress over the same mountain while the opposite side climbs out from a 9k base and gets to cherry pick planes trying to climb an 11k hill. I last two sorties last night before logging. I was in the MA for 40 minutes and 35 of that was climbing out.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Zimme83 on May 19, 2017, 11:23:38 AM
The fun part is that every new map seems to be "the worst ever", to me it looks like its mainly about people cannot handle new stuff.. Fester for ex, specially designed to favor all kinds of combat, with short distances between bases etc. And all we heard was how horrible it was..
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: hgtonyvi on May 19, 2017, 11:30:26 AM
The fun part is that every new map seems to be "the worst ever", to me it looks like its mainly about people cannot handle new stuff.. Fester for ex, specially designed to favor all kinds of combat, with short distances between bases etc. And all we heard was how horrible it was..
Fester map was a kool map. It just needed some bug fixes which never happened.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 19, 2017, 11:48:37 AM
Most of us have said kudos to the map maker for his efforts, but the frustration level mitigates that now. People want it gone and in our increasing annoyance with this map saying thanks for trying isn't on the radar.
Certainly no animosity is intended toward the guy who made the thing. With more numbers perhaps it would/did work--but it doesn't right now.
I hear gripes every single day about ASTRONAUT fighters. Its not every one, but is a majority of the gripes I hear repeated, on a daily basis. Yes it is true, at first the reviews for Buzz were positive,like first time it was in rotation. After that, not so well received. Which was my point, since the early reviews, EVERY time this map appears there is a new THIS MAP...., and its all negative. Like I said, I don't particularly care for this map, myself. It wasn't meant to be judgmental, I get it. On the other hand, maybe it just gets the brunt of abuse by folk who subscribe to the BBS? There are some great fights,in my opinion, to be found at times. Not one of those fights have been the same. seems there is always something going on that makes me change my plans. Maybe that's just me? It keeps it from getting boring at least.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Wiley on May 19, 2017, 11:59:43 AM
Fester map was a kool map. It just needed some bug fixes which never happened.
That was my assessment of it as well, and the bugs that I noticed never bothered me much.
My only gripe with Buzzsaw is it seems like it makes people not fly airplanes for reasons I don't entirely understand, which makes me not want to play when there are no enemies to fly against.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: 1stpar3 on May 19, 2017, 12:08:55 PM
The fun part is that every new map seems to be "the worst ever", to me it looks like its mainly about people cannot handle new stuff.. Fester for ex, specially designed to favor all kinds of combat, with short distances between bases etc. And all we heard was how horrible it was..
That was exactly my point, Fester was cursed railed against for a week at a time :eek: It usually hung around a while. Look at it now,some would prefer it over Buzz. I understand that as well. Maybe my personality just enables me to put up with the stuff I don't like , more than others.Yes, I guess you could say I am stubborn? Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I cant live with it? I am definitely not going to hide from it, so why not try to overcome it/understand it. That personality has served me well lately, on a real world basis. I just don't care for negativity I guess, its toxic and I have enough of that as it is.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 19, 2017, 12:18:11 PM
I hear gripes every single day about ASTRONAUT fighters.
In the future please use the correct nomenclature. What you are describing is called, "The Zoneysphere".
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Zoney on May 19, 2017, 01:00:45 PM
Oh, and I will take Buzzsaw over Fester any day of the week and would rather have Trinity before either one.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: bustr on May 19, 2017, 01:44:41 PM
Buzzsaw is hated for a variety of reasons by a variety of people. Best to just accept this fact and not allow Buzzsaw to have a divisive effect on our forum community. The map is disliked...
I have some terrain builder's questions about Buzzsaw related to complex top features and light.
1. - Is buzzsaw harder to play on during low light than other terrains in rotation? 2. - Or with the already bad feelings, does low light have a multiplying effect on those bad feelings? 3. - Or does low light on any map increase bad feelings about game play?
Buzzsaw being hated so much, it is an excellent learning experience because of the direct and unvarnished descriptions of game play and descriptions of what is wrong on it. Some aspects of it helped me with bowlma and I'm still pulling information for my current Oceania. Buzzsaw is the 10 year old unopened box of chocolates gift that just keeps on giving. :O
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: mako04 on May 19, 2017, 02:58:09 PM
I like the map. We have very few maps (8?). The Dirty Little Bishs reset it in about 6 hours anyway. :noid
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: blutic on May 19, 2017, 05:13:18 PM
Griping is an art. HT will not pay attention to "I can't find a fight" or I can't get my 5 kills per sortie" or "this map sucks" How about this? Dear HT, God has seen fit to give me perfect vision. He has also equipped me with the reflexes and stamina to fly these animated aeroplanes. I have spent the time in the TA, DA, and the MA. Although I realize the hard work and creativity that went into developing this map, I feel that this is a waste of my god given talent as a fighter pilot. I am not suggesting elemenating this map, just reduce the amount of times if comes up in the rotation.
A bottle of Dewar's in on the way. (I can't afford the single malt stuff) Never saw a need for it. :cheers:
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: pipz on May 19, 2017, 05:14:01 PM
Logged in. Saw the map.54 people on. Logged off. I appreciate the effort that went into it but sometimes things just don't work out. Rite idea wrong execution.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: mako04 on May 19, 2017, 05:22:42 PM
Take a Xanax, its only up for a few hours at a time. :bolt:
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 19, 2017, 05:33:44 PM
A bottle of Dewar's in on the way. (I can't afford the single malt stuff) Never saw a need for it. :cheers:
BLASPHEMY! If you aren't going to do Single Malt, then Canadian Blended is the only way to go! (but I certainly wouldn't toss a Dewar's over the side if I was sitting in a life raft in the middle of the ocean!)
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LilMak on May 19, 2017, 05:38:04 PM
Aside from it's general lameness, the map is causing many players to simply log off. Whether you like or not is irrelevant. The fewer the players, the less incentive to pay.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Devil 505 on May 19, 2017, 05:41:29 PM
Take a Xanax, its only up for a few hours at a time. :bolt:
we're on day 2 now. That's quite a bit more than a "few hours", genius.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: waystin2 on May 19, 2017, 05:51:40 PM
The only redeeming factor to the Buzzsaw is my Hurri 2D gets lot of work with all of the tanks running strats.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 19, 2017, 06:08:41 PM
Gentlemen, Ladies, and all the other undefined things that defy description,
Hmmm, using ONLY this thread as an indicator one might begin to believe that Buzzsaw is reviled, and that as soon as it shows up everyone logs off.
But not so fast!
The following folks have stated that they hate it and a portion of them claim they see buzzsaw and log off: 1] Hgtonyvi 2] Cav58D 3] Vraciu 4] LilMac 5] Slate 6] Devil 505 7] SFRT-Frenchy 8] Squire 9] Joker 10] ACE 11] Bozon 12] Becinhu 13] Blutic.
Now, if we use PIPZ's example: Buzzsaw was loaded, there were {only} 54 people on, so he logged off.
The simple reality though is that even if ALL 13 of the folks who say they hate it/won't play on it had stayed, PIPZ would have logged on, seen 67 people on and likely still have determined that there weren't enough on, and logged off ...
Everyone has something about every map that they don't like (or they aren't paying attention).
Let's face it, it isn't Buzzsaw that is causing lack of fights. Player numbers are simply low and sustained fights are becoming harder to find.
...
FWIW: I find Buzzsaw interesting. There are parts that I detest. But, I don't let the terrain dictate whether or not I'll play--expand your flying horizons!
Cheers, :cheers:
- Rodent57
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 19, 2017, 06:16:55 PM
Gentlemen, Ladies, and all the other undefined things that defy description,
Hmmm, using ONLY this thread as an indicator one might begin to believe that Buzzsaw is reviled, and that as soon as it shows up everyone logs off.
But not so fast!
The following folks have stated that they hate it and a portion of them claim they see buzzsaw and log off: 1] Hgtonyvi 2] Cav58D 3] Vraciu 4] LilMac 5] Slate 6] Devil 505 7] SFRT-Frenchy 8] Squire 9] Joker 10] ACE 11] Bozon 12] Becinhu 13] Blutic.
Now, if we use PIPZ's example: Buzzsaw was loaded, there were {only} 54 people on, so he logged off.
The simple reality though is that even if ALL 13 of the folks who say they hate it/won't play on it had stayed, PIPZ would have logged on, seen 67 people on and likely still have determined that there weren't enough on, and logged off ...
Everyone has something about every map that they don't like (or they aren't paying attention).
Let's face it, it isn't Buzzsaw that is causing lack of fights. Player numbers are simply low and sustained fights are becoming harder to find.
...
FWIW: I find Buzzsaw interesting. There are parts that I detest. But, I don't let the terrain dictate whether or not I'll play--expand your flying horizons!
Cheers, :cheers:
- Rodent57
For the 13 that complained you can add at least four more apiece that didn't speak out on the forums but did the same thing. That's 13 x 4 or 52.
A cost/benefit analysis would show this map does more harm than good. Purge it.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 19, 2017, 06:33:10 PM
Zero empirical evidence submitted!
As we waste flying time typing right now, the Uterus map is loaded in Melee.
It is Prime time ... and there are only 110 people playing.
It ISN'T Buzzsaw causing the numbers...though I'll concede that Buzzsaw might not be helping some people either.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Devil 505 on May 19, 2017, 06:41:44 PM
Rodent, the 13 you named hate Buzzsaw/don't play anymore on Buzzsaw precisely because there are no fights on it and the map does not promote air battles.
THAT IS THE CAUSE
PERIOD.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LocoMoto on May 19, 2017, 08:10:28 PM
As we waste flying time typing right now, the Uterus map is loaded in Melee.
It is Prime time ... and there are only 110 people playing.
It ISN'T Buzzsaw causing the numbers...though I'll concede that Buzzsaw might not be helping some people either.
the game is in a death spiral growth wise. Ive seen it with several other games over the years. Takes a long time before the impacts really pinch a head office.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: ACE on May 19, 2017, 08:39:18 PM
we're on day 2 now. That's quite a bit more than a "few hours", genius.
Map was up, Bish almost reset...then HT reset with server update to a new start of "Buzzsaw" How many hours for the map to rotate through twice? Maybe a bit more than 12...not much.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: WEZEL on May 19, 2017, 10:02:38 PM
We want Trinity :bolt:
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 19, 2017, 10:39:31 PM
As we waste flying time typing right now, the Uterus map is loaded in Melee.
It is Prime time ... and there are only 110 people playing.
It ISN'T Buzzsaw causing the numbers...though I'll concede that Buzzsaw might not be helping some people either.
I don't have to cite empirical evidence. It is a known fact that for every customer that complains you have X number that do not but agree with the sentiment. I actually understated the number significantly.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 19, 2017, 10:45:21 PM
the game is in a death spiral growth wise. Ive seen it with several other games over the years. Takes a long time before the impacts really pinch a head office.
I lived through the WBs death spiral. It was not fun.
Hopefully that isn't the case here.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LocoMoto on May 20, 2017, 12:54:07 AM
I don't have to cite empirical evidence. It is a known fact that for every customer that complains you have X number that do not but agree with the sentiment. I actually understated the number significantly.
OK, I'll bite (while ignoring the rude shouting from earlier by DEVIL --- cause THAT is going to impress me ... NOT!!!!!) ... what IS the number then?
...
careful (Its a trap!)
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 20, 2017, 02:03:18 AM
Rodent, the 13 you named hate Buzzsaw/don't play anymore on Buzzsaw precisely because there are no fights on it and the map does not promote air battles.
THAT IS THE CAUSE
PERIOD.
Dear Sir Devil,
IF the '13' that won't play on Buzzsaw were to simply up and choose 2 sides....wouldn't that be at least a 6 vs 7 fight?
OR, if there are say ... 4 times as many people doing it then they could be having a 24 vs 28 fight ... but, they aren't.
The MAP doesn't make that decision, you do.
I'll defend to the death (I did for 35 years) your right to believe as you choose to believe.
But I'll not sit here and watch BAD MATH and BAD LOGIC be tossed around like so much Caesar salad!
It's just wrong!
PS I'm not a fan of the BuzzSaw map either.
Lastly, I just spent ~3 hours fighting on the UTE map...and the numbers were never very big. There were several small fights (with the usual suspects bringing 262s to pad their scores).
I know that one of the "Buzzsaw 13" was there ... where were the other 12 (48)?
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: pipz on May 20, 2017, 08:01:40 AM
Yep. I mentioned it two years ago or so. I referred to it as a "slog" and a "death march". Got called all sorts of names (Chicken Little, etc.) for it... Go figure.
There is time to reverse course. I still advocate for certain rides to be free in the Melee to drive numbers UP. I don't know if that will matter, though, if there isn't a method in place to get out there and grab new people to begin with. Also, if Buzzsaw is the first map new people see they will flee.
(If anyone doubts my dedication to and advocacy for this game all they need to do is look at my signature. The loyal opposition is still loyal after all.)
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LocoMoto on May 20, 2017, 02:48:27 PM
Yep. I mentioned it two years ago or so. I referred to it as a "slog" and a "death march". Got called all sorts of names (Chicken Little, etc.) for it... Go figure.
There is time to reverse course. I still advocate for certain rides to be free in the Melee to drive numbers UP. I don't know if that will matter, though, if there isn't a method in place to get out there and grab new people to begin with. Also, if Buzzsaw is the first map new people see they will flee.
(If anyone doubts my dedication to and advocacy for this game all they need to do is look at my signature. The loyal opposition is still loyal after all.)
no need to cast your pearls to swine you have put in your time. Its because your right you get that kind of ack
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 20, 2017, 04:36:13 PM
Yep. I mentioned it two years ago or so. I referred to it as a "slog" and a "death march". Got called all sorts of names (Chicken Little, etc.) for it... Go figure.
There is time to reverse course. I still advocate for certain rides to be free in the Melee to drive numbers UP. I don't know if that will matter, though, if there isn't a method in place to get out there and grab new people to begin with. Also, if Buzzsaw is the first map new people see they will flee.
(If anyone doubts my dedication to and advocacy for this game all they need to do is look at my signature. The loyal opposition is still loyal after all.)
I don't doubt ANY of the folks that are writing in this thread's dedication/game loyalty...Never have, don't expect to.
<S>
Rodent57 AH III Lead Trainer
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Waffle on May 25, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
So if Buzzsaw was to be modified - which would you like to see first?
The altitudes lowered,
or the base strat layout?
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: ACE on May 25, 2017, 10:03:41 AM
So if Buzzsaw was to be modified - which would you like to see first?
The altitudes lowered,
or the base strat layout?
I think you can kill two birds with one stone here. Remove the vehicle spawns to the strats which shouldn't take much manpower, and then focus your efforts on the altitudes.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: AAIK on May 25, 2017, 10:08:03 AM
So if Buzzsaw was to be modified - which would you like to see first?
The altitudes lowered,
or the base strat layout?
The whole map is too high, flatten it all out. That would be a start.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Lazerr on May 25, 2017, 10:12:49 AM
I would say the strats first.. the puffy ack in the middle is more annoying than the hills.
If more bases were added around the edge and between the edge and middle, you wouldnt have to dink with altitudes at all IMO. Higher alt fights toward the middle with lower altitudes towards the outside. Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2017, 10:14:00 AM
So if Buzzsaw was to be modified - which would you like to see first?
The altitudes lowered,
or the base strat layout?
Why not fix both at the same time?
This map needs a total reworking. Even a temporary half-fix would still leave the map as unplayable.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 25, 2017, 11:21:50 AM
The altitudes would probably be good to lower first.
That being said, the map still isn't going to work that great until the there are either
A. More bases on the outside of map to make the outside area bases seem closer to each other.
B. OR, outside bases should be pushed closer together.
C. Redo entire layout of bases from the start to make it more symmetrical.
Besides the strat issues. These changes would allow more fights to occur and play out much better. It would increase action around the map instead of all the focus in the middle.
I would say the strats first.. the puffy ack in the middle is more annoying than the hills.
If more bases were added around the edge and between the edge and middle, you wouldnt have to dink with altitudes at all IMO. Higher alt fights toward the middle with lower altitudes towards the outside. Everyone wins.
Actually, lazer has a good point also. I like this idea.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: TheBug on May 25, 2017, 11:34:14 AM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2017, 11:37:02 AM
So if Buzzsaw was to be modified - which would you like to see first?
The altitudes lowered,
or the base strat layout?
You are a badddd man, but, thanks for finally getting involved. That spiral gradient design has one major saving grace, it's easy to modify down the road. While you are at it, possibly open more cross spiral arm water ways and widen some of the others to make them easier to use. Violator and the 56th boys are right about elevations. I still cannot figure how you will move the strats since they are integral to the GV game on that terrain. Sorry you have to do all of that work but, it was a great test bed and research opportunity for my terrain building.
I started looking around in the skin viewer for all of your current generation gunsight and cockpit work Ju87, 110 and SBD5. Wow!! have you been busy, this is the best yet that you have given us. I found the MK8NAVYGS, Revi12, Type100, can't wait for the upgrades to the rest of the stable. :aok
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 25, 2017, 08:56:25 PM
The altitude would definitely be a good start, with whatever can be done to make looking out of the cockpit window more realistic. The GVs spawning at the strats as a replacement for a tank town is the keeper of the map imo.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: molybdenum on May 25, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
Aside from it's general lameness, the map is causing many players to simply log off. Whether you like or not is irrelevant. The fewer the players, the less incentive to pay.
That's simply not true in my experience. I'm sure some people do log off when they see a map they don't like--like me with Bowl--but I play a lot and I simply don't see any significant difference in player numbers that seems to be map dependent. Hopefully Hitech or lusche has some way of measuring this to see if my perception = reality. My guess is that the people who dislike Buzzsaw and post on the BBS are to a great extent AHers from way back and have developed formidable fighter pilot skills, in part dependent on having the wisdom to gain alt before encountering bad guys. In that sense Buzzsaw is an equalizer--up from the right base and you start out with tons of alt. Quick access to enemy bases, quick access to strats, GV fights at a moment's spawn, high alt fights easy to find...I like everything about this map, and would be bummed if a vocal minority shouted it out of the rotation.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: JimmyC on May 25, 2017, 09:31:42 PM
Alt More bases outer ring :salute
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2017, 10:22:18 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: cav58d on May 25, 2017, 10:57:11 PM
Buzzsaw is back up!!!! Let's all obliterate the strats with our GV's, yaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: LilMak on May 25, 2017, 11:03:52 PM
That's simply not true in my experience. I'm sure some people do log off when they see a map they don't like--like me with Bowl--but I play a lot and I simply don't see any significant difference in player numbers that seems to be map dependent. Hopefully Hitech or lusche has some way of measuring this to see if my perception = reality. My guess is that the people who dislike Buzzsaw and post on the BBS are to a great extent AHers from way back and have developed formidable fighter pilot skills, in part dependent on having the wisdom to gain alt before encountering bad guys. In that sense Buzzsaw is an equalizer--up from the right base and you start out with tons of alt. Quick access to enemy bases, quick access to strats, GV fights at a moment's spawn, high alt fights easy to find...I like everything about this map, and would be bummed if a vocal minority shouted it out of the rotation.
150 players on before the reset tonight. Less than 50 when Buzzsaw came up. Part of that is the time but most of it is the map. I've disliked maps in the past but never do I remember coming to the boards to definitively say one needs to be pulled from the rotation. This thing is GARBAGE. Total CRAP. It sucks for pilots. If the intention is for HT to scrap the game out of spite, It's working. If not, please pull this steaming pile of dung from the game and shred it into oblivion.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Devil 505 on May 25, 2017, 11:19:22 PM
It's not meant to be realistic. Realism is within the special events.
this is a old excuse. every step forward is to be more real.
fake mountains are a map creators tool to influence the "fight" and to give the "game" more character. we see this logic fail with the buzzsaw map. textures were skipped for the most part giving a catoonish dull appearance to the ground; this was a step backwards. the elevations were introduced to channel players to areas or mandate large areas of the "fight" to thin air. imo, these attempts at controlling the game are detrimental to the overall enjoyment of a free world. forcing a player to only play a certain way, forcing everyone to play a certain way, is bad. Buzz saw elevations not only slow or eliminate play, they are atrocious to look at, only in the depths of nebraska or mongolia is the ground so dull, but it is magnified to ridiculous heights. that map is less realistic the original 3d models seen ages ago. not real, and a step backwards.
a flat level terrain like texas, that looks like texas, would be awesome. the realism that comes from AH3 can allow nice textures and low elevation hills. realism is not far away.
:salute
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: lunatic1 on May 28, 2017, 10:40:34 AM
you folks keep talking about lowering the mountains-lower the alts-- I don't see where the bomber pilots have a problem getting their bombers uo to 30-35k hell 15-30 minutes after map comes up you have 6 bombers in the air bombing the strats when they could easily drive gv's to them, but they choose to fly. I believe this map is more of a gv'rs map easy to to build your gv perks up for other maps. and don't tell me fighters can't find a fight. I see fighters flying all the time. but if you leave the comfort of you ack hugging field it will be easier to find a fight. and you'all that log off or don't even log on when you see buzzsaw coming on are contributing to the amount of time your most hated map stays up. if everybody logs in and plays, and helps their country this map wouldn't be up so long. instead of leaving it up to somebody else to end it for you.
Quote from: Wiley on May 26, 2017, 10:08:47 AM
Day crew- I will be your friend forever if you horde roll the map off by 8:00 Eastern tonight. I believe in you!<--nuff said
Wiley.
Morning crew is taking the day off. <<---
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Lusche on May 28, 2017, 11:03:04 AM
and you'all that log off or don't even log on when you see buzzsaw coming on are contributing to the amount of time your most hated map stays up.
The last time I saw Buzzaw on I didn't simply log off - I canceled my subscription. :P And changing just one single attribute would not have prevented that.
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Waffle on May 28, 2017, 09:07:08 PM
Did a few fixes on it Friday.... lowering the alt was one, about 4.5k in the middle, swapped the center flak bases out to v-bases, and changed plane availibilty at all vbases. Will see what happens, plus it's a good insight into some game play challenges, modifications.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Oldman731 on May 28, 2017, 09:10:40 PM
Did a few fixes on it Friday.... lowering the alt was one, about 4.5k in the middle, swapped the center flak bases out to v-bases, and changed plane availibilty at all vbases. Will see what happens, plus it's a good insight into some game play challenges, modifications.
Thanks, Waffle, hope the complainers appreciate the work you put into this.
- oldman
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: The Fugitive on May 28, 2017, 11:46:57 PM
Awesome, look forward to trying it out <S>
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: CAV on May 28, 2017, 11:51:30 PM
Quote
The occasional fictional map is fine, but maps that are at least shaped like the real world would be a welcome sight for many.
+ 1
I play a combat "simulation" not science fiction.
If you have to pick between something gaming and something realistic.........go with realism.
CAV
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 29, 2017, 01:33:21 AM
Did a few fixes on it Friday.... lowering the alt was one, about 4.5k in the middle, swapped the center flak bases out to v-bases, and changed plane availibilty at all vbases. Will see what happens, plus it's a good insight into some game play challenges, modifications.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
TY For your response! :aok
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: pipz on May 29, 2017, 08:34:14 AM
:aok
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: cav58d on May 29, 2017, 08:50:12 AM
Did a few fixes on it Friday.... lowering the alt was one, about 4.5k in the middle, swapped the center flak bases out to v-bases, and changed plane availibilty at all vbases. Will see what happens, plus it's a good insight into some game play challenges, modifications.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
What does the "changed plane availability at all vbases" part mean? Are aircraft other then the storch spawnable from the vbase?
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: popeye on May 29, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Did a few fixes on it Friday.... lowering the alt was one, about 4.5k in the middle, swapped the center flak bases out to v-bases, and changed plane availibilty at all vbases. Will see what happens, plus it's a good insight into some game play challenges, modifications.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Thanks, Waffle. :aok
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: TheBug on May 29, 2017, 08:06:35 PM
You make it sound like people shouldn't complain and just accept what is given to them for their money.
*mic drop*
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 29, 2017, 08:20:17 PM
Frankly, I find complainers to be a waste of our precious oxygen! (and their hot air is likely the root cause of climate change!)
People who propose solutions to problems (even if they exist only in their own minds) are trying to fix an identified issue...they have some level of worth.
Personally, I do not believe that there ever was an reasonable whine WRT Buzzsaw, and no amount of attempted silencing by "The 13" is going to change that. I acknowledge that they thought there was an issue, and now challenge them to return to flying.
So yes, Sir Bug...a thank you would generally be considered right, proper, and polite.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Vraciu on May 29, 2017, 08:24:19 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Buzzsaw Map
Post by: Rodent57 on May 29, 2017, 08:30:51 PM