General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nrshida on July 13, 2017, 07:10:02 AM
Title: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 13, 2017, 07:10:02 AM
Along the way I've sort of picked up the cultural implication that certain Japanese things are 'better' than their western equivalents. I've had several Japanese planes & saws for many years. The latter do tend to cut faster as you remove less material. Recently had a lot of trouble with a certain prototyping material which warped the blade, then you're in heaps of trouble because there's no room to correct the cut as there would be with a Western saw. Had to break out my old broken hacksaw blade collection.
Then recently I was given a Japanese kitchen knife, left side of the blade is flat and the right side makes the edge. Having used 'French' kitchen knives forever I was a bit dissapointed. The Japanese knife can turn into your left fingers if you're not careful and the handle is ghastly. it's a bit like a broom handle. Can't tell anything about the blade from it and there's too much space between it and the edge.
Also when you put the knife down it's logical to rest the chisel side down to keep the tip off the worktop. But then the edge is always facing you asuming you're right handed. I think they made the wrong side flat. Even turned it round, held the tip and made some cuts and it felt better! :banana:
Then I found these, a Siberian design. Anyone here used one?
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: icepac on July 13, 2017, 10:08:30 PM
This is a fine Japanese Tool.
A greco les paul John Sykes.
Good enough to usher in "the lawsuit era" when gibson got hold of one and found it better than their les pauls of the same time period.
Whether or not japanese is "better" depends most on the pride of the person who built it.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Bizman on July 14, 2017, 01:43:00 AM
My car mechanic told about a friend of his who had spent some time in Japan and bought a €200 kitchen knife as a souvenir. Long story short, at first uses he dropped it on the floor and it broke into several pieces. The knife had a lifetime warranty so he sent it back and after half a year or so got a new one. The story doesn't tell what material the blade was made of, nevertheless a sword with similar blade quality might have made some Samurai run for his life.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 15, 2017, 02:14:06 AM
I had a similar story from a friend Bizman only the kitchen knife in that story turned out to be ceramic. A friend dropped it and put a chip along the edge. Bummer.
Walter Sorrels had a nice go at a sushi knife. Laminated an old wrought iron anchor chain link with some modern tool steel:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928dirLgZvU
Those guitars Icepac, are therefore a copy of a Western design but implemented to a higher standard? Craftsmanship very much appreciated in some cultures. The one I presently live in not unfortunately. Sort of the opposite of the Japanese culture it seems.
A guitar playing friend of mine once told me about the Steinberger guitars, an attempt at redesign rather than copying or evolving a known form. I think the one in picture is ironically a copy :rofl
(http://i.frg.im/tQdjmrzP/43711a_600.jpg)
Ever played or heard one of those? What's the general opinion? Heard Eddie Van Halen liked them.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: icepac on July 15, 2017, 12:28:01 PM
Lots of Hohners were made in japan but I know nothing on the steinberger types like that one.
Prince played a "lawsuit" telecaster made in japan.
You might find that many guitars by "american companies" are made in japan, indonesia, thailand, china, korea.....etc.
Japan stuff seems to be a lot more consistent with quality while the other country product is more up to the company policy overseeing the production line as well as the individual person building them.
The jig is up on getting quality for cheap out of japan and prices are insane but doing research and checking out things in person can net you a gem even from a korean factory.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Bizman on July 15, 2017, 01:28:55 PM
Quote
even from a korean factory
???
I've learned that Korea is nowadays doing the quality cheap production, China, Indonesia, Malaysia and the rest being the low tier makers. Japan isn't that cheap anymore, on the other hand it has gained a good reputation. Think about computer parts: "Japanese capacitors" is a marketing slogan for outstanding quality.
As for laminated knives, a friend once told that old saw chains are good raw material for blades since they contain both soft and hard steel. Just heat and forge them for a nice Damascus steel type blade.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: zack1234 on July 16, 2017, 07:01:31 AM
Japan is like Germany built on myths :rofl
If Britain had been getting subsidised for the past 60 years by the USA we would make more than big macs :rofl
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: pipz on July 16, 2017, 07:23:24 AM
Disappointments many. I thought this was going to be a Ki-84 discussion. :(
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: DaveBB on July 16, 2017, 08:52:53 AM
A knife is just a sharp piece of metal you cut stuff with. I still use a knife I bought from The Dollar Tree six years (for $1) to cut my steaks.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: icepac on July 16, 2017, 09:21:23 AM
If Britain had been getting subsidised for the past 60 years by the USA we would make more than big macs :rofl
People worldwide will go to great lengths to get a genuine lister CS diesel.............sad they stopped making them as the copies require a lot of work to be useful.
Britain still makes the baddest race cars with most every formula one team having a facility there.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 18, 2017, 12:39:23 AM
Disappointments many. I thought this was going to be a Ki-84 discussion. :(
To be fair the one I fly is made in America. Just got to get the defective WEP sorted. Application sent in already. Two weeks from reaching the top of the pile I expect :banana:
A knife is just a sharp piece of metal you cut stuff with. I still use a knife I bought from The Dollar Tree six years (for $1) to cut my steaks.
End of the day knives and swords are just sharpened bars of steel, true. Lot of people fussy about their tools and imlements though. As much depth as your budget and interest / need allows. Once I saw a surgical procedure on human eyes. They use hyper-expensive flint scalpels. I heard it was something like 16 microns minimum edge on high carbon steel but something like 4 with the knapped flint. Must be hand-crafted by someone somewhere.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
I think a swordsmith producing a katana may take offense to that. :)
Hmmm, well I think technically those old things are bars of iron with nodules of steel since the Japanese forges couldn't reach a high enough temperature to make homogeneous steel. Therefore they are heterogeneous but I think the old smiths wouldn't be offended recognising what a thing was, elementally.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Skuzzy on July 18, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
Might want to read about the making of the katana. There are a number of sources on the net to read about the making of one.
The short of it is this; They are made from two different steels. The carbon content is less for the core steel, making it stronger, while the outer steel is produced with a very high carbon content making it very hard.
The process is a long one as the steel is beat into thin layers and folded (approximately a dozen times) in order to control the carbon content.
It really is a fascinating to study how it is made. Today's katana, made in the traditional method, takes about 15 people six months to make and can costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Bizman on July 18, 2017, 02:34:44 PM
Folded steel can be sharpened to extraordinary levels because of the hard and soft layers. Just make sure that the middle layer is of the hard type. The more layers, the thinner the middle layer can be and the sharper the blade can get.
As for a definition, sharp means two mirror sides meeting at an angle. In an ultimately thin layer of hard steel even the smallest angle will be scary sharp and beyond.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 18, 2017, 03:08:15 PM
:rofl Sorry Skuzzy. You'll perhaps never appreciate just how funny your suggestion is to me. I know you mean well, let's just leave it at that :salute
Actually, I thought it odd you would be the one to make light of the katana. You have to admit, it is unique in the world of swords.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: bustr on July 19, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
For about 10 years I made a living as a saya-shi making and restoring the koshirae of antique japanese swords, re-wraping handles and other new work or restoration. I also made shirasaya for a sword polisher in San Francisco all while a student of Tenshin ryu kenjutsu. I learned to use and maintain all the traditional tools for saya work. A dozen or so specific duty planes, 5 saws for different duties, and ten or so specific duty chisels with numerous single sided knives for various things on the saya and tsuka. Along with odds and ends tools you have to make for yourself along the way. You end up making a tapered auger of a shallow degree to create the hole the mekugi(bamboo peg) goes through to hold the tsuka(sword handle) on. If you are creating handles for sword students, you quickly discover the correct taper to not get students killed.
Even in japan today most people do not use single sided blades for cooking. Many are frightened by how sharp they are and you have to be taught how to use a single sided blade versus cutting away with a double sided like we are used to in the west. Many people on their first attempts to use a single sided blade find it problematic and run into the same issues that nrshida did. Unless you ask for a left handed knife, japanese single sided knives are right handed especially exports. Think of cutting more as a straight draw through the food pulling. There are a few designs for pushing. And yes there will be a tendency of blade steering while cutting due to the single bevel, and why you have to learn how to use the knife.
There have been a few tests on fish where the flesh is cut with a single sided and then a double sided blade. Then under high magnification the cell structure for the single sided is cleanly sheared while the double sided shows micro crushing in spots. Japanese chefs and culinary experts say because of this clean cut the food has a superior flavor. Running the cut food through a flavor analysis machine has shown this to be correct. Yes in Japan they have analysis equipment for the strength of flavor(umami) which is very important to consumers.
As for katana, I still have a few, I practiced tameshigiri as part of kenjutsu training. I'm not sure how much people here in the west are interested in japanese swords anymore. That is why I spent 20 years babysitting servers.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 20, 2017, 01:00:30 AM
And yes there will be a tendency of blade steering while cutting due to the single bevel, and why you have to learn how to use the knife.
This was the unexpected part I thought it’d behave like a chisel, but it's obvious when you think about it - it's the resultant of the two surfaces in contact with the generally compliment material you’re cutting. The resultant is curved desipte the flat surfaces. Got a bit more used to it now but the handle is still very awkward.
Actually, I thought it odd you would be the one to make light of the katana. You have to admit, it is unique in the world of swords.
Went through a weird meta-awareness phase. Great way to cut through mythical BS. Ironically this started with a long talk with my Japanese friend. He hates Japan, cooks Italian food, respects how the Dutch do everything quick and dirty. We talked about the Japanese tea ceremony in comparison to the English one. He observed the former had at the heart of it a cup of instant tea :rofl
Swords well. My interest started principally because of the steel and craftsmanship. My Father was a farrier and blacksmith. Had a pretty good feel for the forming of iron and steel at a very young age. Magic. Like Bustr said though it's all gone now. Only wing nuts are interested in ancient (and deprecated) methods & weapons. Last vestiges of craftsmanship being rooted out. Even in Japan some traditional disciplines are lost. My father's smithy is long gone. Tried to save one of the anvils but they went to the scrapper. Even the wrought iron gates on Strawberry Fields have been replaced with knock-off replicas.
We're not even driving jet cars like we imagined as children, everyone's afraid of the future, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria! It's all turned to rat-s***, rat-s*** I say! :D
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: bustr on July 20, 2017, 01:25:38 PM
There may be hope for Japan in a hidden silver lining to it's declining population.
The current trend is for as many young people who can to leave the rural areas for populations centers in pursuit of the modern life style. Villages and farms are being abandoned along with interest in agriculture or fishing. There are a number who are ditching that lifestyle after being successful in their late 20's and 30's and bringing the benefits of technology back to the rural areas to farm or reclaim small towns that have been loosing population to create lower cost of living working communities. At some point with a reverse migration like this from the fast paced urban life style, there may well be a renewed interest in traditional crafts and technology. Physical books are in demand by millenials in Japan because they are starting to become tired of being wired all the time. If that cycle can be changed by the millenials wanting to return to physical delayed gratification pursuits. There are many things waiting for them to fill their time with once their head is out of the cloud.
Millenials are the first almost fully cyber addicted generation on earth.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: morfiend on July 20, 2017, 04:23:07 PM
Bustr,
If you have a Katana on the short side,like 27 inches,I can find a home for it!!!
Long ago in a far away place I too used to practice Bushido,well it was part of the Akijistsu I was trying to learn!
I always had an issue with the blade lengths,28 plus inches always messed me up,I actually need a blade 26 and 1/2 inches but a 27 would do,just about impossible to find unless you have one custom made. My wife's sister lived in Japan for several years and I pleaded with her to get me on from there but I think my wife intervened! She doesnt like me playing with sharp pointy things....... :furious :furious :furious
:salute
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Zoney on July 20, 2017, 05:04:13 PM
If you have a Katana on the short side,like 27 inches,I can find a home for it!!!
Long ago in a far away place I too used to practice Bushido,well it was part of the Akijistsu I was trying to learn!
I always had an issue with the blade lengths,28 plus inches always messed me up,I actually need a blade 26 and 1/2 inches but a 27 would do,just about impossible to find unless you have one custom made. My wife's sister lived in Japan for several years and I pleaded with her to get me on from there but I think my wife intervened! She doesnt like me playing with short pointy things....... :furious :furious :furious
:salute
Fixed :)
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: FBKampfer on July 20, 2017, 07:51:18 PM
As a chef, I'll swear by Classic line by Wüsthof and a good whet stone. Never have found a better knife for the price. You can pay a couple hundred for some fancy knife from Japan, at the end of the day, I bet mine still cuts better.
I fully recommend them to anyone shopping for a good kitchen knife. Consistent, high quality, and just damn good looking knives.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 21, 2017, 12:02:18 AM
Long ago in a far away place I too used to practice Bushido,well it was part of the Akijistsu I was trying to learn!
You wingnut! Drag yourself into being trendy and cool and tactical and buy one of those new fangled Webley–Fosbery Automatic Revolvers in full auto :banana:
You wingnut! Drag yourself into being trendy and cool and tactical and buy one of those new fangled Webley–Fosbery Automatic Revolvers in full auto :banana:
When the zombie Apocalypse happens I'd prefer to have medivel weapons thank you very much! Them new fangled shooting irons tend to run out of ammo,lead and/or powder! I can always make more arrows and sharpen a pointy stick! Oh ya plenty of rocks around for my sling too!! :devil
:salute
PS: I have a complete set of forged Lagostina knives,didnt get the damascus steel ones,just the cheap J,A,pan company steel.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: FBKampfer on July 21, 2017, 01:48:09 PM
Look very nice Kampfer. Where do you hold it, hand way up the handle right close to the edge? Index finger on the blade?
Lol, sometimes :P. It really depends on what I'm doing. Chopping herbs, slicing lemons or oranges, or trimming a large roast or leg of lamb, and things like that I usually just hold the handle like normal.
Skinning potatoes, or trimming smaller cuts like a flank steak, or trying to get a really thin slice, I usually grip the blade with my thumb and two forefingers, and my pinky and ring finger around the handle behind the bolster.
I much prefer my Classic Ikon for that (instead of the restaurant's plain Classics) though, since it has no bolster, and is counter- weighted at the base of the handle. It just more comfortable to hold that way.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Gman on July 21, 2017, 11:32:59 PM
Tamahagane steel constructed Japanese swords are impressive, but there are other swords and types that are equally impressive. Just one example, like the Ulfberht is just as much a technical marvel for its time period, yet nobody holds the opinion that they are some sword without peer, which they absolutely were for their time period.
I own many swords, many of them Japanese and Chinese in origin, from WW2 officers made from pretty cheap steel, to full length katana and wakizashi that are several hundred years old. I'm also a member of the Japanese Sword society of Canada, and a friend of mine runs the http://www.nihonto.ca/ company, sourcing Japanese swords and weapons for commercial sale. While the time and techniques put into a modern commissioned Japanese sword constructed by authentic/historical methods, especially the polishing and sharpening, can be appreciated, such a sword really doesn't perform or resist edge damage all that much better than a modern sword in the $1000 range. Blended carbon steel swords these days made with 1095/1060/1045 blended steel that are deferentially hardened, I'd put them up against any priceless Tamahagane constructed sword with a 3 month polish job, in terms of cutting/battle performance and edge damage resistance. That's how good the modern steel and techniques have gotten in punching out blades that perform. Are they as pretty? No, and obviously they hold little historical value or significance, but they work as well as anything ever made.
Considering how many swords companies like Paul Chen and Ronin Katana sell, and how many students like ITTA and other iaido/kenjutsu/tameshigiri schools have, plus the kendo clubs around here, I think the interest in Japanese swords and swordsmanship is at an all time high. My first short story I based on the missing Honjo Masamune in fact, mostly due to the current level of interest in swords in general.
Bustr - you ever do any work with/for James Williams in California?
For cooking blades I've used the same Spyderco set they gave us when my former company used to distribute their knives, I don't think one of them was retail more than $100, and they still sharpen up like they were new. MBS26 stainless steel, nothing special at all.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 22, 2017, 03:29:27 AM
such a sword really doesn't perform or resist edge damage all that much better than a modern sword in the $1000 range.
Agreed. Modern steel at least functionally equivalent. Ironically when fuedin' was the principal business in Japan, polishing was just done to the functional level too. Only in the more peaceful stage did the aesthetic come to the fore. Arguably that phase of polishing was showing the 'impurities' in the forging and heat treatment. All martial arts get flowery eventually. I expect Glock will go the same way :rofl
Tamahagane steel constructed Japanese swords are impressive, but there are other swords and types that are equally impressive.
I thought this was quite interesting:
A blade shape which seems to excells at both cutting and thrusting. A rare thing indeed! Of course the originals never made in steel. The 'fossil' record of the Celtic sword apparently is now complete and proves the Greeks copied it and not the other way around. In your face ancient Greeks.
Still take a Webley-Fosbery for EDC though :banana: (full auto, obviously):
Lol, sometimes :P. It really depends on what I'm doing. Chopping herbs, slicing lemons or oranges, or trimming a large roast or leg of lamb, and things like that I usually just hold the handle like normal.
Crikey you're making me hungry now Kampfer. I'll be round for dinner in twenty minutes!
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: bustr on July 22, 2017, 06:02:59 PM
Tamahagane steel constructed Japanese swords are impressive, but there are other swords and types that are equally impressive. Just one example, like the Ulfberht is just as much a technical marvel for its time period, yet nobody holds the opinion that they are some sword without peer, which they absolutely were for their time period.
I own many swords, many of them Japanese and Chinese in origin, from WW2 officers made from pretty cheap steel, to full length katana and wakizashi that are several hundred years old. I'm also a member of the Japanese Sword society of Canada, and a friend of mine runs the http://www.nihonto.ca/ company, sourcing Japanese swords and weapons for commercial sale. While the time and techniques put into a modern commissioned Japanese sword constructed by authentic/historical methods, especially the polishing and sharpening, can be appreciated, such a sword really doesn't perform or resist edge damage all that much better than a modern sword in the $1000 range. Blended carbon steel swords these days made with 1095/1060/1045 blended steel that are deferentially hardened, I'd put them up against any priceless Tamahagane constructed sword with a 3 month polish job, in terms of cutting/battle performance and edge damage resistance. That's how good the modern steel and techniques have gotten in punching out blades that perform. Are they as pretty? No, and obviously they hold little historical value or significance, but they work as well as anything ever made.
Considering how many swords companies like Paul Chen and Ronin Katana sell, and how many students like ITTA and other iaido/kenjutsu/tameshigiri schools have, plus the kendo clubs around here, I think the interest in Japanese swords and swordsmanship is at an all time high. My first short story I based on the missing Honjo Masamune in fact, mostly due to the current level of interest in swords in general.
Bustr - you ever do any work with/for James Williams in California?
For cooking blades I've used the same Spyderco set they gave us when my former company used to distribute their knives, I don't think one of them was retail more than $100, and they still sharpen up like they were new. MBS26 stainless steel, nothing special at all.
No I had an agent named Cary Condell out of San Francisco back in the late 80's. He was trying to get the SF museum of fine arts to let me work on the restoration of some of the handles in their collection. I'd reached the point that other collectors didn't know if my re-wraps were sourced from Japan unless he told them. Fame was not paying the bills so I went into the IT industry. Mr. Williams was probably a restoration customer through Condell. Once my work was at that level, he started pushing handle re-wraps. Unless the sword you are re-selling has historic significance or the wrap is of a significant school of work, you get the handle re-wrapped like remodeling your kitchen to resell your home. I spent a lot more hours touching up pieces for resale and doing re-wraps versus new work from scratch.
Most sword students are on a budget including in my school, so I was always being requested to come up with cheap ways to do things. I was told once by several students that they could just use a table saw and a router and didn't need to spend the years I did learning to do everything with traditional tools. There is a set of three chisels for in letting the the two halves of the saya blanks and you can modify western chisels with a propane torch. They were not interested in all that work.
Always wondered if anyone had a custom router bit created that would do a generic blade cross section, especially with a few of the sword web sites I've seen who will supply inexpensive generic saya for Iaido. You still have to ship them your sword, otherwise it takes about 6 hours by hand to shape the blank, rip it by hand, plane the faces, and inlet both sides. Then scrape down high points with a special knife, let alone creating the koiguchi and tuning it to the habaki. Those students didn't know you had to account for the habaki and collar the mouth of the kurigata with horn or even durable plastic. They were not interested in learning how to make a basic copper one. And they decided to use fine sand paper to work down the high spots. Guess they had money to burn on a sword polisher.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: FBKampfer on July 23, 2017, 07:10:04 PM
If you have a Katana on the short side,like 27 inches,I can find a home for it!!!
Long ago in a far away place I too used to practice Bushido,well it was part of the Akijistsu I was trying to learn!
I always had an issue with the blade lengths,28 plus inches always messed me up,I actually need a blade 26 and 1/2 inches but a 27 would do,just about impossible to find unless you have one custom made. My wife's sister lived in Japan for several years and I pleaded with her to get me on from there but I think my wife intervened! She doesnt like me playing with sharp pointy things....... :furious :furious :furious
:salute
Morf, I own one of these, it's only a cheapie, but it's a good cutter, only 23' also, very manouverable :)
Check out the videos of them cutting up small logs, it's a strong blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUDjKpmoDZc
http://www.chenessinc.com/9260oniyuri.htm
Steely
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: morfiend on July 24, 2017, 06:20:15 PM
Morf, I own one of these, it's only a cheapie, but it's a good cutter, only 23' also, very manouverable :)
Check out the videos of them cutting up small logs, it's a strong blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUDjKpmoDZc
http://www.chenessinc.com/9260oniyuri.htm
Steely
Thx for the link,I will look further into this! :aok
Now I just have to figure out a way to get it into the house without SWMBO finds out....... :noid
:salute
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: bustr on July 25, 2017, 11:49:12 AM
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: morfiend on July 25, 2017, 01:30:06 PM
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.
:rofl :rofl :rofl Nice Bustr but I live in Canada,if a friend came over with a gun case she'd think something was up!!
All I really need do is get it into the mancave....... No women allowed! I have several primitve weapons on the walls so it would be easy to hide! :aok It's the getting it outside to practice that would be the real issue. That and I dont usually "hide" stuff from my wife as there's really no need to.
:salute
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: nrshida on July 25, 2017, 02:07:00 PM
All I really need do is get it into the mancave.......
It's the getting it outside to practice that would be the real issue.
The solution is obvious old friend: store it outside in the woodshed! :rock
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: Gman on July 25, 2017, 03:48:38 PM
Cheness is well known for making good quality entry level swords and blades.
Check our Ronin as well, Sword buyers guide and a bunch of different sword forums rate their blades to be the best bang/$ for under $1000, and their mid range $300 swords are excellent for the price. Their Elite level blades can be found on sale in bare blade setup for under $500 frequently too. They usually have a "sword of the month" deal, and offer one of their Pro level $300 swords for $250, which is a great deal. http://roninkatana.com/
Title: Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
Post by: steely07 on July 25, 2017, 05:37:07 PM
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.
I am ashamed to say I've done this with guitars ;)