It does not prevent vulching. If 3 planes are vulching, after they killed the bot AAA, and you shoot one plane down, then they shoot you. Did it really prevent vulching?
It took the guy in the field 1 second to hop in the manned gun, and shoot someone down, who spent 10-15 minutes already in a sortie flying to that base. The manned ack player does not have to worry about time. The attack player does. If I get one pinged death from manned act. I now have to fly all the way back to the base for someone who presented 0 risk, 0 time.
What is fun about this? You are 6K from a base scouting the field. A person sees the plane near the field on radar. They hop in field Ack 88, you get puffs 10 feet from your plane from a point and shooter, then you blow up before you can get to the base and Jabo. You just spent 10 minutes to die instantly by someone risking nothing. Or what, you go home to avoid any chance of getting puffed out of the air?
Look at how many people die from inaction manned guns. Look at all those sorties where probably at least 50% were pissed off about it. I see no reason for it. It does not promote action. It does not promote game play.
If said player took 10 minutes to fly over and deack said field of auto acks, take 11 minutes to get rid of the manned guns. Its not like they are going any place. Also remember AHIII 88's are neutered compared to the real thing just as the Wirbel and Ostwind are as well.
More people in Planes and Tanks, less people in Point and Shoot, yawn play, ruining hard earned sorties from 8K away. It does nothing for the game. Regular bot manned acks do more than a great job.
I will say that they should be kept for the CV and ship fleets just for the sake of the CV weakness.
Please consider
Vio
So this sounds like yet another wish to force gameplay to your style...which sounds to me like you don't want to let someone land at their base, and/or don't want to let someone take off from their base; you must think it's fun for them being vulched because it's fun for you to vulch them. Maybe if you don't chase people back to their base, and let them take off and get some air under them for a chance at a fight, you won't come here and complain about the manned ack and post a wish to have it removed.
and leave the base undefended-but then you say up a plane and defend, unnhuh so u can vulch. if you don't want to get shot down by auto or manned ack don't fly into the ranges, you say it was 88MM that got you, well kill 88
-1
Please tell me how a manned ack is a player style? It doesn't have a score, you can't actually die, and it takes 0 risk. A manned ack is not a "player style". It doesn't solve the problem of vulching or it would have stopped people from vulching already. I proved that in the last post. rolling in vehicles is actually much more beneficial. The bot AAA already protects people from landing and taking off. If it's down, well, gee golly, don't you think it's poor defense on your part? The only thing it would "force" players do it is actually compete in the game... Wow, what a novel idea. Who wants to fight against a puff of smoke that doesn't even give you a kill? Why should they get all the benefit with 0 risk? The Puff ack can kill you from 6-10K away. You don't even have to be near the base. It can snipe you out of the sky in a 1v1 fight near the base.. What fun is that? to spend 10 minutes to fight a puff of smoke and die instantly? I honestly don't get what at all is rational or how it benefits the game play more so than make it stale.
No, it didn't get me, that's not why I made the post. The point is that it is stupid and ruins the fun for the real flyers and real participants in the area. Im sure after getting sniped out of the sky 5 or 6 times, players just leave. It takes too long for all that work to insta die by a point and shoot option.I love different aspects of this game and manned guns are my guilty pleasure (quad 40 is my favourite because of sound and visuals). :D So I guess I am a virtual flyer, not real. If someone shot me down several times in a row with the 88 I would salute the person. Speaking of real I am pretty sure a WW2 pilot would not get much credit or markings for strafing some gun position but an AA gunner would probably get credit for shooting down an aircraft. Some of the attackers in game come in at high speed, shoot the dar or ammo in a single pass and egress fast. Not much time to defend in an aircraft, especially in a slower one.
Man guns on airfields is only an issue if you planning to vulch the runway, a which point few people will up a plane anyway. the 37 mm is effective up to maximum 1.5k against a fighter, beyond that its just lucky shots. 88 is also a non issue, just maneuver a bit and u are safe. If you have some good gunners you can stop the vulchers and allow for friendlies to take off in planes and defend the town.wirble is 1.5k ostwind 37mm 4.5k manned 37mm 4.5k M-16 1k
wirble is 1.5k ostwind 37mm 4.5k manned 37mm 4.5k M-16 1k
If it's down, well, gee golly, don't you think it's poor defense on your part?
No, I for one, don't.
People can't be everywhere on a map and the simple fact of life is that most attacking hordes don't head into a solid darbar... they go hit a field where they'll be coming in at alt with bombs to do some damage and cap the field. What you seem to want is an automatic cap that can't be defended against AT ALL based on your attacking group's "wisdom" to choose that base.
The manned guns are there for a reason. As was suggested earlier, if they pose a problem to you, the onus is on you to take them out of action, not on a defender's to ignore a means to fight back just because it takes some of your advantage away. Personally, if there's 3 ponies and a gaggle of 190s orbiting my base, I'm not upping there to pad your score. Now you want uppers, don't vulch people taking off. You do, you get manned guns. Don't complain about the consequences you help create, otherwise the same can be said about you that you are saying about defenders. If manned guns are taking you out, musta been pretty poor offense. :cool:
1) Some don't care about his/her score
2) Some enjoy the satisfaction of defending a base
3) For some risk is no big deal because of 1 and 2 above
4) For those that have AAA skills, it can be quite satisfing to kill the vultures
:salute
So you think rolling from a capped base is smart either?
No, I don't roll from there if the base is capped. Usually, if my goal is to defend that base, I up somewhere else if it's possible. I will up if there are planes over town or if there is a threat of imminent capture.
I'm merely saying that manned guns are on the field for a purpose and it seems the people who are upset that an available asset is being used make no sense. What exactly ARE you posing defenders should do, just hand over the field? Would any of them NOT up a tank if a bunch of tank rolled their base? How would they feel about an opinion that upping a vehicle is nonsense and they should have defended the base "better?"
You use what's available. That's why it's there.
As for the rest, I've had many situations where I was one-shot blasted out of the sky by guns I didn't think should be that kind of accurate. It happens. I usually do go back, only this time I'm a lot more careful to fly in ways that make tracking me more difficult.
I'm not proposing sitting in manned guns all night. What I'm saying is IF people are trying to up, they're getting vulched, I see no problem with trying to use a manned gun to make it a bit harder on the vulchers. If you have 6 vulches under your belt at the time, I have no way to know that and wouldn't care. I'd be happy you didn't get a seventh pelt for the wall. :D The same has happened to me when I'm trying to cap a base. I don't worry about it; if I get shot down, I can re-up. If it's score I'm worried about - and I don't - I wouldn't be flying low over a base with manned OR auto guns in the first place.
There was a time when fighter sweep missions used to be quite common. I don't think I've seen one in the last couple months. Nearly every pickup mission I've seen has to do with taking a base or bombing something. With lower numbers, it's hard to find enough people to get a mission like that rolling, so most fights are going to be way out of balance. Not all, just most. In times past, when a group came in to cap a base, it wasn't long until a group upped from a nearby field to come try and clear up the skies. But numbers no longer support that when you consider a side must also contend with incoming GVs and bombers plus hunt for M3s and maybe even bring an M3 for resupp. It's just too much to do spread over a thinned population to have 6 or 10 guys with nothing to do but up and fly a sector to defend.
Maybe if our numbers go back up that will return to being feasible but right now I don't think it is and that's why we don't see much of it.
uhhh Violator, no one agrees with you. Just let it drop. :bolt:
More people in Planes and Tanks, less people in Point and Shoot, yawn play, ruining hard earned sorties from 8K away. It does nothing for the game. Regular bot manned acks do more than a great job.
I will say that they should be kept for the CV and ship fleets just for the sake of the CV weakness.
Please consider
Vio
He spent 15 minutes to come vulch. Why should a person be able to log into the game, hop in a field Ack, and ruin his sortie with 0 risk? I don't understand how that logic is beneficial to the game.
Really?
Here's a possible answer: If he's going to spend 15 minutes flying to the field, let him stay out of ack range long enough for an opponent to take off and fly a plane up to fight him. I suggest that would be more beneficial to the game than encouraging his vultching by making it less risky.
- oldman
Really?
Here's a possible answer: If he's going to spend 15 minutes flying to the field, let him stay out of ack range long enough for an opponent to take off and fly a plane up to fight him. I suggest that would be more beneficial to the game than encouraging his vultching by making it less risky.
- oldman
Really?
Here's a possible answer: If he's going to spend 15 minutes flying to the field, let him stay out of ack range long enough for an opponent to take off and fly a plane up to fight him. I suggest that would be more beneficial to the game than encouraging his vultching by making it less risky.
- oldman
Really?
Here's a possible answer: If he's going to spend 15 minutes flying to the field, let him stay out of ack range long enough for an opponent to take off and fly a plane up to fight him. I suggest that would be more beneficial to the game than encouraging his vultching by making it less risky.
- oldman
You are all missing the point. It does NOT prevent vulching anymore than the bot AAA already does.
So you think rolling from a capped base is smart either? You think you should have the chance to roll while the other team is trying to take the base? What if the VH is down, FH is down, BH, and all guns are down. What are you going to do? Your little manned ack obviously didn't do anything. I had someone yesterday come within 10 feet of me from 6K away from the base, shot after shot. Could have easily ruined my sortie, and been a big waste of time. I've had ack insta tower me at 15K going down over 400 mph with 6 kills. Am I suppose to enjoy that? Why is it that you guys cannot perceive time value in this game?
1-2, defending their base by sitting in a manned gun does less to defend and more to help your team get vulched eventually. It decreases playability in the game, it encourages lazy game play. It encourages people to stop playing.
3. So you are saying that a person who does play for score should be okay with a situation that takes absolutely nothing for them to fail? How is that balancing game play?
I'm guessing you would prevent those that have their own style of play?
I seem to recall you complained about that very same atitude
:salute
4-5. So If you spend 10-15 minutes to fly to a base and get popped out of the sky instantly by a manned gun that you cannot even defend against, are you going to spend another 15 minutes doing the same thing? How many more times will it take for you to get tired?
6. It doesn't prevent vulching. That's the biggest fallacy out of the lot of ya. Lets say you shoot all the vulchers down, and now they don't come back, is that a win for game play? You are able to roll, but who are you going to fight now? Why should a game mode that only implies point and shoot have such a big impact players hard earned sortie and time? It is not right. It's just another way to decrease the overall action of the game, and we don't need that right now.
This isn't real life. In real life yeah, you want to take them all down at all cost.
This is a game that needs action to stay alive. Dodging point and shoot sniper puffs are a lot like watching grass grow.
You guys act like the defenders should get the benefit of the doubt even though they take less risk and time per sortie. That doesn't logically make sense. If you roll from a base that is getting vulched, why should you get any benefit of the doubt for getting vulched when you knew you would and it only cost you 15 seconds? Why should a F6F or P38S get 10K to jabo a field to kill radar, only to die in 1 second by a puff of smoke they cannot defend against? Who do you think is more griefed over time? Who do you think is not going to waste their time anymore?
I just don't understand how you guys can defend wasting your time getting shot down by people who aren't even taking part in providing actional gameplay, that you can't even defend against after spending time getting there. Super exciting!! It just goes to show another reason why the majority of y'all cannot understand why people have left the game due to bordem, lack of action, and lack of time/value.
I like jumping in a gun and trying to shoot down a-holes who are trying to vulch. When they go boom, I smile because I know I pissed them off.
I just don't understand how you guys can defend wasting your time getting shot down by people who aren't even taking part in providing actional gameplay, that you can't even defend against after spending time getting there. Super exciting!! It just goes to show another reason why the majority of y'all cannot understand why people have left the game due to bordem, lack of action, and lack of time/value.
We defend them because with out them the game would have closed long ago. Everyone has what they like to do. You don't like flying 10 minutes to a base to get shot down by ack, then dont do it!
Personally I enjoy shooting the crap out of ack guns. Sometimes I try to deack a field all by myself with as little damage as possible. Its a challenge and can be fun when nothing else is going on.
What you have to get strait in YOUR head is not everyone wants to play the game the way you want to, and thats OK! Forcing others out of guns isnt going to make them all up in planes, many will log, much like you might do when cant find a fight.
If anyone gets close enough to a field that a manned gun can shoot at them, they are not looking for a fight. If they were, they would be far enough out to allow an upper to get some speed and altitude.
Adding 2 or more bot acks added will actually do more to stop vulching than a manned gun will.
That is entirely untrue and completely destroys the entire purpose of the game. Sorta like how M3 resupplies are. You give too much credit to the defender who risks nothing. No emphisis on the attacker because it's all his fault. If an attacker has to travel 15 minutes to attack a base, why shouldnt the defender if he cannot roll? The manned ack doesn't solve any of those problems, it just makes the game play stale.
You all have such a huge misconception when it comes to attacking and defending.
Still, I'd like to see being killed while in a manned gun count as a death in your stats. Seems to me there should be some risk to the gunner...
Its about populating the arena with action so that more people enjoy sticking around.
If anyone gets close enough to a field that a manned gun can shoot at them, they are not looking for a fight. If they were, they would be far enough out to allow an upper to get some speed and altitude.
Do not like Ack? de-ack.I agree. Some of these fellas can't stand working for their food. :aok
I will put it to rest but please consider at least taking away the point and shoot 88 gun from fields. It will help a lot.
I wonder if we can apply a Lusche kind of response to organizing wishes by how extreme the player wants Hitech to change the game for "them".
Small changes - Peak prime time with many players in the arena.
Extreme changes - Off Peak prime time with few players in the arena.
Manned ack and ack is not much of problem during Peak prime time unless you have a habit of flying into it chasing kills. And the odds are pretty good during peak time someone will de-ack for you. So far from my experience with Hitech while observing his responses to the wish list over 15 years. This one is in the category of couching the wish as a great good for the community while really wanting Hitech to modify the game to suit one player's desires.
Each airfield, vBase, and port as a theater of combat activity is in an area about the same size as the tiny 19x19 mile arenas in War Thunder. In Aces High the terrains are 10 to 20 times the size of those in War Thunder with the ability to have almost that many concurrent combat actions taking place at the same time. Lately Violator's wishes seem to be about forcing players into the no where to run type of combat you get in War Thunder because of the limited size of the arena.
The Melee arena terrain sizes that will be accepted by Hitech are 10x10 or 20x20 sectors.
If you want smaller terrains, build a custom one and put up an arena, then advertise here in the forums to get people in it. Or get chummy with the AvA CM's and terrain builders. None of your ideas which end up ultimately with you saying the Melee arena needs smaller terrains to support those ideas will happen. I don't care about score, whipping it out to justify anything is lame and childish. Do something besides constantly trying to convince the community that you are the top of the food chain when it comes to knowing all to make this game into some kind of utopia. You want to prove some of your assertions, build a terrain showcasing your ideas that are possible within the rules Hitech imposes on Melee terrains. You have always been free to if you believe you have a superior idea. Your last 6 months of pounding the keys to convince us of your superior knowledge you could have finished a terrain and had it in rotation. Then after that gets played on and discussed here in the forums, you might have something to talk about.
The problem with terrains, you have no clue what will happen after the community ups their rides and starts playing on it. All of your cherished assumptions will go right out the window and the players do everything but what you planned for them to do. Until you build a terrain and go through this, you don't have a clue other than tossing around "opinions".
-188's can be extremely accurate. I got shot down by the same guy at a port repeatedly trying to kill his gun. One shot I was doing 500+ because my TA152 was compressing.
I'm not sure who you have encountered in an manned 88, but you are acting as if they are the proximity detonation 5" guns from the ships. Dialing in the 88mm fuse range is far from automagic, not to mention the travel speed of the shells makes leading your target tough.
Are you perhaps running Lancasters under radar, popping up, and getting slaughtered? That's where I can see as a problem vs. the 88s. Oh wait, a quick shot of machine guns or a well placed A2G rocket takes care of that for a few minutes.
And yes... I absolutely love jumping in an 88mm trying to knock people down be it a tank, bombers, or fighters... it's all quick fun for me. Want to make it fun for you? Destroy the guns, force my hand into avoiding the vulch. I'll even take the "death score" if you knock me out... kill/death... feh!
How exactly do you shoot an 88 not flying at him?(https://i.imgur.com/3DauQlE.png)
How exactly do you shoot an 88 not flying at him?