Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 49ZERO on September 17, 2017, 09:39:19 AM
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Been many months since I played but still pay my 14.99. The two reasons are side balance and player numbers. For months I have read the forums and done a lot of thinking. I was rooting for steam to be the much needed salvation for the Big Two. There are two even chess pieces that move differently but are of equal value, Knight and Bishop. Two countries fighting each other is as balanced as one could get. This game takes months to learn and years to master. All early war air craft and ground should be free to play. It really is that simple as a concept to solve the Big 2.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,389368.0.html
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I don't think giving someone a free low-end plane to die in, over and over, will help player retention. That's not fun, and people have other gaming options.
FWIW, the only solution to your problem may be to learn to enjoy gameplay while outnumbered, and forget "winning the war" if your on the outnumbered side. If you just focus on your individual plane or GV, there are plenty of goals you can achieve. There always will be opportunities for a skilled player to pick away at the horde. And if you're not that skilled, then becoming so is an additional goal to achieve.
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I would think that early war and lack of experience would justify getting shot down. A new player would accept such out comes. It would be much harder for a new player to keep playing getting killed over and over in a p51.
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Been many months since I played but still pay my 14.99. The two reasons are side balance and player numbers. For months I have read the forums and done a lot of thinking. I was rooting for steam to be the much needed salvation for the Big Two. There are two even chess pieces that move differently but are of equal value, Knight and Bishop. Two countries fighting each other is as balanced as one could get. This game takes months to learn and years to master. All early war air craft and ground should be free to play. It really is that simple as a concept to solve the Big 2.
+1
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Why would the players who don't balance 3 countries ever balance two countries?
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I don't think giving someone a free low-end plane to die in, over and over, will help player retention. That's not fun, and people have other gaming options.
FWIW, the only solution to your problem may be to learn to enjoy gameplay while outnumbered, and forget "winning the war" if your on the outnumbered side. If you just focus on your individual plane or GV, there are plenty of goals you can achieve. There always will be opportunities for a skilled player to pick away at the horde. And if you're not that skilled, then becoming so is an additional goal to achieve.
It's also not fun to spend two weeks trying to figure out the steep learning curve only to be told PAY UP! Some free rides (a few EW and one or two MW) would bait the hook I think. A lot of us took the plunge but took longer than two weeks to do it. I've been paying for years now. That small investment in a free arena has been repaid dozens of times over in my case alone.
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Why would the players who don't balance 3 countries ever balance two countries?
Because they just do. If they don't then ENY will crush them.
As it is this is a de facto two-sided war with three chess pieces.
It will never be changed so no use discussing it. :salute
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When my two week trial ended in 2005 there were commercials on television and 500+ persons in the arena, $15/month was a no brainer. Today with low numbers and a steep learning curve there really isn't much incentive to spend the monthly fee after your trail is complete. + 100 on free EW birds or a plane of the month.
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I find the thread title politically offensive. :old:
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You have to realize that we are in the free to play era. The competition for players is more than ever. Sometimes you need to bait and wait and I believe most gamers would be drawn to the mid and late planes and tanks eventually. As of side balance if one side had eny the other would not have a 3rd country spoiler. The battles would be bigger and defense more intense.
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early war air craft and ground should be free to play.
This would cost htc $$$. I'd save $15 per month and have a blast flying nothing but the early war stuff.
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This would cost htc $$$. I'd save $15 per month and have a blast flying nothing but the early war stuff.
Good. Bring your friends so the rest of us can shoot you down.
I'll get a couple of my squaddies to re-up and that will more than offset your cancellation.
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You have to realize that we are in the free to play era.
"Free to play" is a dishonest ruse. Dale knows this and seems disgusted by that. FTP games gives you just enough to support a FTP claim but it requires endless 'grinding' to get anywhere, meanwhile it also offers advantages to players who make constant piecemeal purchases that end up costing more than what a subscription would. Some 'FTP' games will even offer the form of a temporary subscription (say, two weeks of 'veteran status') which really offers you very little, in return ... AND ... you're still stuck grinding/purchasing while at a small advantage.
I admire Dale sticking to his honest business plan while other games bait and switch an intellectually immature customer source. The only reason I suggest a 'free plane/vehicle of the week' option is to try to help wean the FTP addicted player off that.
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"Free to play" is a dishonest ruse. Dale knows this and seems disgusted by that. FTP games gives you just enough to support a FTP claim but it requires endless 'grinding' to get anywhere, meanwhile it also offers advantages to players who make constant piecemeal purchases that end up costing more than what a subscription would. Some 'FTP' games will even offer the form of a temporary subscription (say, two weeks of 'veteran status') which really offers you very little, in return ... AND ... you're still stuck grinding/purchasing while at a small advantage.
I admire Dale sticking to his honest business plan while other games bait and switch an intellectually immature customer source. The only reason I suggest a 'free plane/vehicle of the week' option is to try to help wean the FTP addicted player off that.
QFT Arlo describes the free to play business model fallacies perfectly. :aok
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Free to play cost me over 100 dollars a month and I don't care aslong as I'm having fun. Taking my wife out to dinner cost me 120 dollars and I'm good with that aswell. Hell just going to a bar is far more expensive than this game is but that is not the point. More players more word of mouth more players more revenue more players more fun.
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I admire Dale sticking to his honest business plan while other games bait and switch an intellectually immature customer source. The only reason I suggest a 'free plane/vehicle of the week' option is to try to help wean the FTP addicted player off that.
+1 for the reasoning. I'd add it is also to give those of us who *DO* pay more stuff to shoot at.
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More players more word of mouth more players more revenue more players more fun.
Bingo.
If x% will pay to sub then you drive revenue from that x% by increasing total numbers.
Critical mass has a value all its own.
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Because they just do. If they don't then ENY will crush them.
As it is this is a de facto two-sided war with three chess pieces.
It will never be changed so no use discussing it. :salute
So ENY works with 2 countries but not with 3?
But it doesn't work with the de facto 2 sided war, it requires an actual 2 sided war?
I missed the evidence supporting that theory.
If you assume that the sides will usually be unbalanced what would be the best theoretical solution?
I find the thread title politically offensive. :old:
A WW2 game thread could have a better title. :bhead
You have to realize that we are in the free to play era. The competition for players is more than ever. Sometimes you need to bait and wait and I believe most gamers would be drawn to the mid and late planes and tanks eventually. As of side balance if one side had eny the other would not have a 3rd country spoiler. The battles would be bigger and defense more intense.
Why does the pay arena always have more players than the free arena?
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I find the thread title politically offensive. :old:
I actually was quite irritated when I read the title on a WW2 war game forum...
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I give up see you all later in a few months. Try to do something constructive is pointless.
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I give up see you all later in a few months. Try to do something constructive is pointless.
Many things are pointless but discussing ideas for the game isn't one of them.
If you can't defend your idea maybe it's not a good idea. :salute
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Good. Bring your friends so the rest of us can shoot you down.
I'll get a couple of my squaddies to re-up and that will more than offset your cancellation.
You missed the point, it would be bad for the game....oh, and the 109f4 is more of a match for the 51 than most realize.
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I give up see you all later in a few months. Try to do something constructive is pointless.
What exactly did you expect or hope for?
And remember, in the end it's not us players you have to convince of an idea...
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....oh, and the 109f4 is more of a match for the 51 than most realize.
It certainly is... as long as the Pony pilot messes up or plays along... :noid
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Many things are pointless but discussing ideas for the game isn't one of them.
If you can't defend your idea maybe it's not a good idea. :salute
^ This.
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So ENY works with 2 countries but not with 3?
But it doesn't work with the de facto 2 sided war, it requires an actual 2 sided war?
I missed the evidence supporting that theory.
If you assume that the sides will usually be unbalanced what would be the best theoretical solution?
A WW2 game thread could have a better title. :bhead
Why does the pay arena always have more players than the free arena?
Not gonna' debate you on it. Not worth my time. It will never change any way. I stand by my statement. It's a two-sided war, two against one. Three sides of 30+30 against 30 is a far cry from two sides of 60 vs 30. Such a simple concept.
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You missed the point, it would be bad for the game....oh, and the 109f4 is more of a match for the 51 than most realize.
Who said anything about the F4?
Bring it. You'll resubscribe in no time.
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Not gonna' debate you on it. Not worth my time. It will never change any way. I stand by my statement. It's a two-sided war, two against one. Three sides of 30+30 against 30 is a far cry from two sides of 60 vs 30. Such a simple concept.
Feel free to stop posting. And good luck with that. :D
I haven't seen any complaints that the 3 sides all have the same number of players or wishes for a 2 sided 60 vs 30 arena. I expect simple concepts to make more sense. Perhaps something is missing.
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I find the thread title politically offensive. :old:
I though it was a topic about the war, then found out it was the usually gibberish :old:
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I still like the idea of a four sided arena for little more than the change of chess pieces to card suits.
(https://www.colourbox.com/preview/2549308-aces-playing-cards-over-white-background-abstract-vector-art-illustration.jpg)
Aces High.
(Also .... for those who dream of 2 sides .... 2v2=2 sides .... that can backstab.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/Diplomacy_box_cover.jpg)
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"Free to play" is a dishonest ruse. Dale knows this and seems disgusted by that. FTP games gives you just enough to support a FTP claim but it requires endless 'grinding' to get anywhere, meanwhile it also offers advantages to players who make constant piecemeal purchases that end up costing more than what a subscription would. Some 'FTP' games will even offer the form of a temporary subscription (say, two weeks of 'veteran status') which really offers you very little, in return ... AND ... you're still stuck grinding/purchasing while at a small advantage.
I admire Dale sticking to his honest business plan while other games bait and switch an intellectually immature customer source. The only reason I suggest a 'free plane/vehicle of the week' option is to try to help wean the FTP addicted player off that.
While I agree with this, times change. They have been telling me that for years here while I tried to discuss certain aspect of the game that have changed over the years. Maybe its time HTC changed their business model a bit to fit with the times.
Im not saying go full FTP, but modify that model into something that could work for him. A free plane and GV wont cost him any more in their operating cost, but it could bring in more free loaders...... err targets...... players :devil . Every one knows "numbers" in the arenas help build the fun and action which in turn brings in more players.
While there are some who may be happy tooling around getting shot down over and over again in a 109F4 most will look to move up to the full subscription to get the list of planes and vehicles eventually. No middle ground, no grinding, either a free plane and gv, or full subscription.
I dont see a down side to it for HTC and plenty of up side. Hopefully they do "something" no matter what it is. The Steam influx has seemed to drop off and it doesn't look like we picked up a lot of subscriptions from it. That right there may be an indiction that HTC business model needs to be updated with the times.
(https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/67/42/65/240_F_67426550_kV8K6zJbCVVo0gJh8aQXv8uNuPjLf0gF.jpg)
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Feel free to stop posting. And good luck with that. :D
I haven't seen any complaints that the 3 sides all have the same number of players or wishes for a 2 sided 60 vs 30 arena. I expect simple concepts to make more sense. Perhaps something is missing.
Just because YOU don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.
But then again, there are those who think the Skyraider is a fighter. :rolleyes:
Refusing to debate contrarians is not the same as stopping posting altogether. Thanks for playing, though. :aok
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Because they just do. If they don't then ENY will crush them.
As it is this is a de facto two-sided war with three chess pieces.
It will never be changed so no use discussing it. :salute
when the bish out number the Knights - rooks 2 to 1 / 3 to 1. bish eny is at 29%-30% that doesn't stop them even if all they can fly are early war planes, it doesn't stop them they just use their numbers to horde- eny doesn't work at all when they do that.
HiTech said on several occasions that he was not going to do a 2 sided war-he said it won't work.
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Who said anything about the F4?
Bring it. You'll resubscribe in no time.
I wouldn't resub and I hope and doubt Iit will come to that. Again, I brought it up to say it's a bad idea.
I did, the 109f4 is early war.
I already do just fine in the higher eny early and mid war planes. I never fly the p51d, dont need to. I would have as much fun as I do now even if I had to fly only early war.
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when the bish out number the Knights - rooks 2 to 1 / 3 to 1. bish eny is at 29%-30% that doesn't stop them even if all they can fly are early war planes, it doesn't stop them they just use their numbers to horde- eny doesn't work at all when they do that.
HiTech said on several occasions that he was not going to do a 2 sided war-he said it won't work.
We balanced in Warbirds all the time. ALL THE TIME. It was never an issue.
I frankly don't care if I am outnumbered any way as long as the war is on *MY* front instead of a Bish/Nit pursefight on the other side of the map. When I'm outnumbered I have more bad guys to kill. That's ideal.
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I wouldn't resub and I hope and doubt Iit will come to that. Again, I brought it up to say it's a bad idea.
I did, the 109f4 is early war.
I already do just fine in the higher eny early and mid war planes. I never fly the p51d, dont need to. I would have as much fun as I do now even if I had to fly only early war.
It's not a bad idea at all. It's a great idea. We need new players to stick around. If we get two guys for your unsubscribing then it's a win.
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Just because YOU don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.
But then again, there are those who think the Skyraider is a fighter. :rolleyes:
Refusing to debate contrarians is not the same as stopping posting altogether. Thanks for playing, though. :aok
If you're going to troll the fighter comment you should know you're talking about a decorated attack pilot who flew a WW2 aircraft in a cold war combat environment and got shot up more than once. He was being funny. CAS is well versed in the different A-1 models and he can say whatever he likes about them.
If you've seen complaints that all 3 sides have the same numbers please post them.
Funny you see a contrarian. Play the ball.
I still like the idea of a four sided arena for little more than the change of chess pieces to card suits.
Hitech has posted that 3 sides is the best player experience. It's not perfect with 3 but it's worse with 2,4,5 etc.
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I play a lot of free to play games. This business model is great because it gives the player a taste of the action and they will crave more. Giving a new player a taste of the action will hopefully leave them with a desire to pay to play the better more competitive planes.
The incentives dont have to stop there. Lets say I really like the P38. Maybe I could unlock decals or a "badge of mastery" for my plane as I get more and more kills. A lot of these free to play games offer these incentives so players will have something to strive for in the game.
Many of these games offer in game skins through progressional unlock or for a small payment.
Aces High doesnt really take itself to a free to play model, but adding some small incentives for free-to-play players could help them in becoming full subscribers.
I think if we get decent numbers in the MA, the game will start to become more sustainable in terms of people continuing to play.
I am alot like 49ZERO in which I have an account and could log into to play anytime, but I dont. Maybe its because my desk is to cramped for my joystick and im too lazy to clean it off. Or maybe its because many people aren't on.
I think that finding a way to concentrate fights with the numbers we do have is a good way to become more sustainable, I like the change HTC has done in regards to spawning players at the base with the most action.
Small tweaks like this can make a fight great. What if "objectives" spawned on the map that offered a large perk bonus; possibly a large factory to bomb or a target base that would output more perks for objects killed. Maybe players will even start organized missions to tackle said objectives.
I am not saying a full game model overhaul is necessary, just a few tweaks to promote fighting or giving some incentive to attacking one base before another rather than a spread out front line of multiple bases. You could even make base takes sequential like the old zone system so focus the fight around a certain area even further.
My final thought on the matter is sustainability. We need a way to make the MA have more action with the player base we already have. If we can get the current player base to play the game more it will be reciprocated by having more numbers to draw new and returning customers in.
I dont have any prespective from what its like to run a business, so this may be a pipe dream. Consider what I have said and try not to flame me too hard.
:bolt:
EDIT: Many of these free to play games constantly balance the game to promote a better player experience by shaking up the game every once in a while to keep players interested. This goes along with adding new content to the game.
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You guys that aren't playing could play together in a custom arena with the settings, ENY, and side balance you want to see in the MA. :aok
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We balanced in Warbirds all the time. ALL THE TIME. It was never an issue.
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How is Warbirds doing these days?
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Hitech has posted that 3 sides is the best player experience. It's not perfect with 3 but it's worse with 2,4,5 etc.
Things have changed since then. With a full arena he is probably right. Having flown both, two-sided is more fun than things are presently IN MY OPINION. Just an opinion. It's not changing so I don't know why we are wasting time discussing it.
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Not gonna' debate you on it. Not worth my time. It will never change any way. I stand by my statement. It's a two-sided war, two against one. Three sides of 30+30 against 30 is a far cry from two sides of 60 vs 30. Such a simple concept.
Of course it is a 2 sided war, 2 against 1 gameplay environment....
Bishops and Knights VS Rooks, Bishops and Rooks VS Knights etc....
Each country (Bishop, Knight, Rook) all 3 have the ability of having to be fighting 2 VS 1 battle regardless if they are part of the 2 or the 1 on the other side of the battle....so it is not nor has nothing to do with being unbalanced.... It is up to the players themselves to "want" balanced numbers against each other.... But don't forget that this is a game that offers air combat and there never is, never have been nor ever will be a thing such as balanced or equal "WAR"....
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Things have changed since then. With a full arena he is probably right. Having flown both, two-sided is more fun than things are presently IN MY OPINION. Just an opinion. It's not changing so I don't know why we are wasting time discussing it.
I was answering Arlo. That's why I quoted him, before my answer to him.
To answer your response. The issue is human nature, and that hasn't changed.
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I was answering Arlo. That's why I quoted him, before my answer to him.
To answer your response. The issue is human nature, and that hasn't changed.
Human nature is different in Aces High than it was in Warbirds? Interesting theory.
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Human nature is different in Aces High than it was in Warbirds? Interesting theory.
Who's theory is that?
Pick up the ball. Play the ball.
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Human nature is different in Aces High than it was in Warbirds? Interesting theory.
Pretty easy to see, everyone is ABLE to swap teams but few do. Those that DO swap, are treated poorly on the "new" team they have joined. Welcome to human nature.
If you have a small hard core group that goes out of their way to keep things even you'll see it, but very few are that "hard core" here. Heck look at the WWI arena during map resets or when Pops calls a time to play there. Rarely does it stay even in there.
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Who's theory is that?
Pick up the ball. Play the ball.
I'm done with you and your baiting. *plonk*
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Pretty easy to see, everyone is ABLE to swap teams but few do. Those that DO swap, are treated poorly on the "new" team they have joined. Welcome to human nature.
If you have a small hard core group that goes out of their way to keep things even you'll see it, but very few are that "hard core" here. Heck look at the WWI arena during map resets or when Pops calls a time to play there. Rarely does it stay even in there.
Never happened in my experience. But it goes back to my original point. 2 v 1 defeats the ENY any way when it is 30 + 30 vs 30. 60 vs 30 would be a whole other thing.
All this hand wringing over balance when we aren't balanced NOW. I'd rather have two sides, total victory, and dynamic fronts than three sides with fronts that hardly move or fights way across the map from my country. At least with two sides it's gonna' be a brawl all the time.
But again, this is a dead horse... Dead. Pulverized. Buried. I'm happy to see a bump in players since Steam came online. I'm enjoying it. :cheers:
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A major difference between WB and AH was nationality per side (making switching sides less likely if a player/squad is into, say, P-51s.
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Never happened in my experience. But it goes back to my original point. 2 v 1 defeats the ENY any way when it is 30 + 30 vs 30. 60 vs 30 would be a whole other thing.
All this hand wringing over balance when we aren't balanced NOW. I'd rather have two sides, total victory, and dynamic fronts than three sides with fronts that hardly move or fights way across the map from my country. At least with two sides it's gonna' be a brawl all the time.
But again, this is a dead horse... Dead. Pulverized. Buried. I'm happy to see a bump in players since Steam came online. I'm enjoying it. :cheers:
There is no way to balance the side reliably AND keep the freedom of flying with your squad, or friends. 3 sides gives you more options and a more likely fights on more than one front.
The issue is not the number of teams, but the numbers of players. I just checked and the are only 130+ players on line on a late afternoon (eastern time). Old days it was easily 300+ and the issues of being ganged or not having and fights is moot.
Sure the Steam opening brought in a bunch of players, but how many have stayed? Hitech was impressed with the number of downloads ( was about more than 1 a minute I think they said in the first 24 hours). How many of those downloads turned into subscriptions? I know the new guys I have tried to help out when I was on, most love the game but have all kinds of simple issues. Mostly due to the crap games they have been playing requiring nothing more than a keyboard and a mouse.
Hopefully HTC can look objectively at the data and come up with a plan to keep the game rolling along and growing. Numbers are what we need, not major changes to the game.
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You boys really do know how to beat a dead horse I will give you that.
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You boys really do know how to beat a dead horse I will give you that.
dead horse?? BBQ in session lol... :devil
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A major difference between WB and AH was nationality per side (making switching sides less likely if a player/squad is into, say, P-51s.
Not exactly, because we had the AvA and then a Main. I think the countries had colors that rotated. Seems like they were never the same from map to map. Could be a fuzzy memory though...
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There is no way to balance the side reliably AND keep the freedom of flying with your squad, or friends. 3 sides gives you more options and a more likely fights on more than one front.
The issue is not the number of teams, but the numbers of players. I just checked and the are only 130+ players on line on a late afternoon (eastern time). Old days it was easily 300+ and the issues of being ganged or not having and fights is moot.
Sure the Steam opening brought in a bunch of players, but how many have stayed? Hitech was impressed with the number of downloads ( was about more than 1 a minute I think they said in the first 24 hours). How many of those downloads turned into subscriptions? I know the new guys I have tried to help out when I was on, most love the game but have all kinds of simple issues. Mostly due to the crap games they have been playing requiring nothing more than a keyboard and a mouse.
Hopefully HTC can look objectively at the data and come up with a plan to keep the game rolling along and growing. Numbers are what we need, not major changes to the game.
I agree to a point. The problem is that more teams dilute the player base. This can be good when the arena is massively populated, but if they had done that when I was in WBs it would have been a disaster. Two sides worked there with similar numbers to what we have now.
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We balanced in Warbirds all the time. ALL THE TIME. It was never an issue.
That's not a true statement. When I played WB, the same issues about side unbalancing were present in that game as well and people were complaining just as loudly then as they are now.
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That's not a true statement. When I played WB, the same issues about side unbalancing were present in that game as well and people were complaining just as loudly then as they are now.
Nope. Not while I was there. It was never a problem. People switched for balance all the time. We'd announce it on country, <S>, and switch. When things settled down we would switch back. If it became a problem after I left well...
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" Old days it was easily 300+ and the issues of being ganged or not having and fights is moot."
If only.
The game is an open sand box war arena. HT has done likely dozens of things to the game in the last 17 years to try to address or lessen this fundamental issue with the "type" of game this is. But human nature is a hurricane. It will not be stopped. The guys on the big team have more fun, have more success(crazy skill excepted) and feel more tough.
The fundamental strength of the game aside from its simulation and social focus is the big sand box arena where you can win by your efforts and team work. When you compare that at its best to any canned and "fair" 15 on 15 battle there is really no comparison. But it comes with a huge challenge to design that like I said, HTC has worked on for decades. With some success. ELR is something, logistical weaknesses to the attack fields are something. But human nature will not be stopped.
I am not saying that there is not some golden bullet that could fix the balance issue but keep the open world sand box soul of the game still there.
But I have not seen it, nor conceived of it.
If you did force balance on teams, you would have to do it with whole clans at a time. Cause the social aspect of the game is critical. So you would be forcing a squad off the wining team because they were winning. Or something like that.
In effect making the "war" un-winnable.
A different game entirely.
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That's not a true statement. When I played WB, the same issues about side unbalancing were present in that game as well and people were complaining just as loudly then as they are now.
Did warbirds have ENY? ?
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Two countries is the only thing that will save this
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Two countries will kill this game.
With two countries the majority who are not of the personality type in games like Lazerr will have no breathing space. Popping their head up to do anything casually like they can today will result in them getting killed because now they cannot hide from the Lazerrs. Hitech will have to force everyone to be Lazerr fodder or quit the game. Having their back always to a wall will drive away more players than it will attract. And Hitech will have to impose ruthless side balancing against his subscribers wishes so the Melee arena doesn't turn into the AvA or WW1 arenas with the side balancing problems there. That's why a two sided WW2 war like Vraicu keeps harping about will also kill Aces High. If a two sided war was the solution, the players who show up for 3 Fridays a month to play WW2 on Friday nights would have lobbied Hitech years ago to convert the Melee arena into a WW2 live 24x7 arena.
You cannot force players to fight in AH3 like it is a 24x7 winner take all combat game and expect to keep any numbers. Force is what Hitech doesn't do that makes this sandbox world work. I doubt the game will die as easily as Lazerr is dooming, I think Lazerr is angry at Hitech for not "Forcing" his paying customers to play the game Lazerr's way.
There is a lot of this out of game vets who want AH3 to be exactly like AH2 a decade ago and blame Hitech for that not happening.
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Two countries will kill this game.
(Munch)
That's why a two sided WW2 war like Vraicu keeps harping about will also kill Aces High.
Yeah, because the three-sided war isn't killing the game, right? (And I'm hardly alone in advocating for a two-sided MA as things stand now.)
You cannot force players to fight in AH3 like it is a 24x7 winner take all combat game and expect to keep any numbers. Force is what Hitech doesn't do that makes this sandbox world work. I doubt the game will die as easily as Lazerr is dooming, I think Lazerr is angry at Hitech for not "Forcing" his paying customers to play the game Lazerr's way.
There is a lot of this out of game vets who want AH3 to be exactly like AH2 a decade ago and blame Hitech for that not happening.
He is "forcing" a three-sided war, so yes, he does force his paying customers to play a certain way--his way. That's his right as the owner, of course, but let's not pretend the option is the customer's.
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Oh, and on these massive maps it is quite easy to hide. Trust me, lack of hiding is not the issue.
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Who are the lazerrs of the game?
The ones that play all aspects of the game?
Get a clue.
And a post about his new map in 3...2...1...
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Who are the lazerrs of the game?
The ones that play all aspects of the game?
Get a clue.
And a post about his new map in 3...2...1...
Drop the mic and walk away. :rofl
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The same group continues to whine about exactly the same thing, over and over and over. They don't get it, never will. They should go and let the rest of us play in peace.
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Yes :)
It's because no one in real listens to them :rofl
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The same group continues to whine about exactly the same thing, over and over and over. They don't get it, never will. They should go and let the rest of us play in peace.
When I wanted to play today I logged in to see 15 people online...... who am I supposed to shoot at ? Bomb factory ? I can do that in a single player game.
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First off, I haven't been in this game as long as most of you. So I have a bit of a hard time seeing the "problems" some of you have. How is a Three sided war killing the game? There is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing just about any thing you want,imho. Its fairly easy too kick up a fight in my experience. Every country gets double teamed at some point. One day its Knits, next is Rook,and so on. In my opinion, the thing killing the game is "Chess Piece Loyalty". I understand why that is the case! Folk just dont want to miss out flying with squad mates if their members are on before the 6 hour "country swap" is over. I also understand that more than a small number would never change sides due to their absolute dis like of some players on the other sides. I guess the Human nature takes over for some? We are designed to be Tribal in nature, so it makes sense. There is nothing stopping you from starting a fight at the other front though. So it comes down to how much do you put up with before you do what is needed to change the situation. For example, If bish are getting doubled some could go Knit or Rook and attack them on THEIR second front. True, it may be only 1 or 2 guys willing to swap countries but pretty sure it would help out in hindering the gang bang. The only person that controls your fun in here is YOURSELF. If 6 hours is too long to commit your self to change the situation, then its hard for me to give sympathy. You could always get your guys to swap to your current country, if that is your issue. Another thing, pretty sure some folk would probably do this if not for all the Richards werent constantly lighting up chn 200 with"SPY SPY SPY" They may have swapped to help balance out the game...WHICH WOULD be beneficial to your situation.
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Every country gets double teamed at some point. One day its Knits, next is Rook,and so on.
No, no, no.
It's always us getting ganged by them. Always! :noid
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I don't think giving someone a free low-end plane to die in, over and over, will help player retention. That's not fun, and people have other gaming options.
FWIW, the only solution to your problem may be to learn to enjoy gameplay while outnumbered, and forget "winning the war" if your on the outnumbered side. If you just focus on your individual plane or GV, there are plenty of goals you can achieve. There always will be opportunities for a skilled player to pick away at the horde. And if you're not that skilled, then becoming so is an additional goal to achieve.
+1
Negative g cut out problems, weak guns, limited view, low performance are not fun for new players. Skilled pilots in late war planes and early war planes vs noobs in old crates does not seem fun for the new guys.
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Every single game in history starts you from 'lowest' where you 'rank up'.
Have you ever seen a game where you start from 'the end' ? Where your character has everything ? no ! because it's bad for gameplay.
That's why no one uses early and mid war planes, because they have the 'end planes' unlocked. Those of you who care so much about 'new players dying in early war planes' just speak baloney.
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Every single game in history starts you from 'lowest' where you 'rank up'.
Have you ever seen a game where you start from 'the end' ? Where your character has everything ? no ! because it's bad for gameplay.
That's why no one uses early and mid war planes, because they have the 'end planes' unlocked. Those of you who care so much about 'new players dying in early war planes' just speak baloney.
I hate those games that put lowest rank vehicles against top rank unless I choose so for increased challenge. I play AH because I absolutely love this game and this is the only online game I play at present. Sure there are some minor things I would like different, but the big picture is awesome. I put myself into the position of a new player and I would hate this game if I had to fly those old crates against vets. Only after a lot of experience I found Spit 1 worth to fly even in special events because I had a lot of difficulty with it. Veterans flying early war planes for challenge against late war planes and late war planes against late war planes seems a better gameplay.
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Yeah, because the three-sided war isn't killing the game, right? (And I'm hardly alone in advocating for a two-sided MA as things stand now.)
He is "forcing" a three-sided war, so yes, he does force his paying customers to play a certain way--his way. That's his right as the owner, of course, but let's not pretend the option is the customer's.
It's fascinating that those guys who defend what is now currently don't see that they are killing the game, there can be nothing worse for gameplay than 38 vs 12 vs 18, it just makes people log off and not play, and they are happy that they can shoot at an 'horde' and that they are outnumbered. :rolleyes:
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I hate those games that put lowest rank vehicles against top rank unless I choose so for increased challenge..
Which is exactly what is on Aces High :O
So do you hate or love Aces High? Make up your mind, you cannot hate game which put lowest early plane vs late war plane and love it at same time.
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Which is exactly what is on Aces High :O
So do you hate or love Aces High? Make up your mind, you cannot hate game which put lowest early plane vs late war plane and love it at same time.
Read my post again.
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The same group continues to whine about exactly the same thing, over and over and over. They don't get it, never will. They should go and let the rest of us play in peace.
It looks like some already have.
Also, you can play in peace... Don't read the boards. Skip posts you don't like. Ignore. Simple.
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+1
Negative g cut out problems, weak guns, limited view, low performance are not fun for new players. Skilled pilots in late war planes and early war planes vs noobs in old crates does not seem fun for the new guys.
Which is why you offer several planes or a coup.e decent MW rides. A Spit V would be perfect.
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Been many months since I played but still pay my 14.99. The two reasons are side balance and player numbers. For months I have read the forums and done a lot of thinking. I was rooting for steam to be the much needed salvation for the Big Two. There are two even chess pieces that move differently but are of equal value, Knight and Bishop. Two countries fighting each other is as balanced as one could get. This game takes months to learn and years to master. All early war air craft and ground should be free to play. It really is that simple as a concept to solve the Big 2.
So, let me get this straight, you are judging gameplay by what others post on the forums because you are not playing? The forum. Really?
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It's fascinating that those guys who defend what is now currently don't see that they are killing the game, there can be nothing worse for gameplay than 38 vs 12 vs 18, it just makes people log off and not play, and they are happy that they can shoot at an 'horde' and that they are outnumbered. :rolleyes:
There is some truth to this.
And all this panic over freebie noobs in "inferior" rides... When it's 38-12-18 they're gonna' have plenty of room.
Any way...these are just thoughts. As Skuzzy said, you have no idea where the next good suggestion will come from. Maybe it spurs an innovation somewhere. Who knows?
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A less risky business venture would be for HTC to force the 49ers to play a certain way so the game as a whole would have a lot less dweebery.....
Just sayin'
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You're a funny dweeb...
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Any way...these are just thoughts. As Skuzzy said, you have no idea where the next good suggestion will come from. Maybe it spurs an innovation somewhere. Who knows?
Some sources are more likely than others though... ;) :bolt:
Every single game in history starts you from 'lowest' where you 'rank up'.
Which is exactly what AH does. The difference is, it's not the planes that rank up, it's the player. This simple truth is what you fail to grasp, and it is the core of why your ideas are not applicable to AH.
Wiley.
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You're a funny dweeb...
I bet youre the type that leaves your own squaddies to save your own neck....
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Some sources are more likely than others though... ;) :bolt:
I'd say the hit % is low across the board.
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I'd say the hit % is low across the board.
Hehe. Never said it wasn't.
Wiley.
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I'm with others that handing out free rides in the MA of early model aircraft will NOT help with the gaming experience for n00bs.
I personally fly the Spit-V, not because it's easy, but it is hard. It's a challenge to kill a late model aircraft in the Spit-V. And I do it cause after flying Aces High for 17+ years, it's a 'challenge' that I seek out of the game. And nothing brings me more glee than to shoot down a La-7, Spit-XIV, Yak-3, or a P-51D because they forget the fighting performance the Spit-V (or the Spit 8) actually has.
Making aircraft 'FREE' - then we're no better than WarBlunder and it goes against the principle of try it free for a couple weeks and if you like what you see, sign up. If you don't, move along.
Going back to the original post - 2 sided area... you do know we already have a 2-sided arena? The AvA is there - most don't fly in it because they want to fly what they want to fly, not stuck in a '1943 historical match-up'. Which is a shame because it's a lot of fun and challenging! It's there you get to fly the Spit-V matched against the 109 Frank. Or a F4F/F6F versus the Zero and the Zeke. Or the 109-K4 vs the P-51D/Tempest/P-47M. All as it was during WWII.
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..
wow..that was close
I almost fed the troll..
Getting fed up of those big steamers on the lawn too..
Right..nothing to see here..moving on
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That's why no one uses early and mid war planes, because they have the 'end planes' unlocked. Those of you who care so much about 'new players dying in early war planes' just speak baloney.
You make blanket statements without any proof to back up your claims. No one flies early or mid war planes in the MA? HiTech already has shown your claim to be false when he posted the plane usage for a complete tour.
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It's fascinating that those guys who defend what is now currently don't see that they are killing the game, there can be nothing worse for gameplay than 38 vs 12 vs 18, it just makes people log off and not play, and they are happy that they can shoot at an 'horde' and that they are outnumbered. :rolleyes:
What you don't see is that your ideas are bad for the game and game play.
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I bet youre the type that leaves your own squaddies to save your own neck....
Never happen. I guess you don't know me too well. But I would guess that is the way you operate. Projection, they call that.
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Hehe. Never said it wasn't.
Wiley.
:aok :cheers: :salute
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The Melee arena or the MA once had a community that took care of and nurtured itself by showing up every night and playing the game. Squads ran missions to capture feilds which generated activity. The Lone wolf types had no end to targets, and the budding GV game had something to do by supporting base attacks if they could get there fast enough. The rest took part in these mass group activities that didn't require any skill or leveling up. Just showing up and following along was enough. You learned by being there inside of a semi organized group doing an activity. That was the secret to newbie retention, not the Trainers, or some 1v1 dueling arena, or any of the crap nuget throws on the wall. A community that accepted and took you with them to break things because you pushed the join button for a mission.
Over the next 18 months it was up to the newbie where he wanted to develop his skills and interests. And because of those early missions he had friends, mentors, and probably a squad he belonged to.
The three country model works as an open sandbox world with no forced activities, leveling up, or other requirements. What makes it work, is a community, it is not kept alive by lone wolves or first person shooter styles of combat because it has never been that kind of a game. It will support that mentality of game play though as a part of a community but, not as the only mentality of that community. The MA community didn't all leave the game, you will find them in SFO caring for and nurturing a community. Many of the loudest complainers and weirdball idea tossers in these forums want the game changed into some kind of a bastardization of a lone wolf utopia ala two sided death match WW2oish failure. And to add insult to that injury, forced compliance with garbage rules and having to purchase your skills above paying your subscription fee every month.
And while they are not getting what they want, they come in here and chew on each other, the forum community, and blame Hitech for everything else while pronouncing doom on his game.
The closest thing to community we still have in the Melee arena are the remaining large squads who generate activity when they are in the arena playing the game. Other than that, most players are waiting around for someone else to start something so they can take advantage of it. We seem to have an aversion to missions anymore which is how you introduce newbies to the game. So they stop getting their whatsis handed to them every time they can manage to get off the runway. You really want to help newbies, put up missions and take them along. The TA will not give them the AH bug, they are not yet ready for the DA, combat in the company of friendlies will.
If your retort is missions and land grab killed the game and things have to change because Hitech is an old out of touch whatsit. Maybe this is no longer your kind of game, that shelf life of an AH gamer Hitech spoke of once. I never saw any of the loudest complainers years back leading missions. They used that energy to call players like FBDred a dweeb for constantly leading those missions which they happily poached for kills. Because they were mobile target rich environments full of vets who could fight 1v1 and newbies.
Once a roll gets moving and bases taken these days, the constant question on range after each capture is where to next. And organically everyone loads up and goes to that "next". Once in motion it's not like a real mission roll out but, everyone is going to the same place to break things "together". Things that are organic work best in an open sandbox environment. Wonder if there is anything Hitech can do to help this evolution of the mission concept so new players get the point to tag along? Success keeps these sessions going for some time each night that they popup generating impromptu activity. There are probably several players who are the mavens that naturally sparkplug these events, who are not on every night of the week. Kind of like FBDred in the old days with his FreeBird missions. But, Hitech is not holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to take part to level up or get their next bigger better toy.
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Except in the backwhen, there were generally enough people interested in defending that actual battles occurred, as opposed to now where the rolling offensive encounters little to no resistance partially because the best defense is an M3 run, among other things.
Wiley.
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Except in the backwhen, there were generally enough people interested in defending that actual battles occurred, as opposed to now where the rolling offensive encounters little to no resistance partially because the best defense is an M3 run, among other things.
Wiley.
That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.
Lead by example.
Show what fun is.
For every ten weeds there may come a worthwhile plant.
Raise enough plants and the weeds won't choke them out.
Don't become a weed, yourself.
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That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.
Lead by example.
Show what fun is.
For every ten weeds there may come a worthwhile plant.
Raise enough plants and the weeds won't choke them out.
Don't become a weed, yourself.
Be water, my friend.
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Arlo, no one wants to lead anymore, they just want to go piu, piu, piu and long out maybe to make the rounds of their other games. Complaining and fighting in here gives the same emotional reward as going piu, piu, piu in the MA. That's why I've always referred to it as the second most addictive game in Aces High. Look back over the years at how normally rational adults conducted themselves in here like people they would never allow in their own homes.
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That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.
Game design is a contributing factor though. A solid percentage of players look for the most effective means of accomplishing the task they've undertaken.
For offenders, that is rolling undefended bases. When an effective defense is mounted, it is better to shift the attack to another location that is undefended than it is to press the attack.
For defenders, it's generally ground based AA defense coupled with resupply.
Wiley.
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That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.
There never is any people problem. The customers (players) are what they are and anyone creating a product have to work with that. You can't change the players with appeals for a different gameplay. They use the tools provided as they wish. If something is wrong with the way the players are playing, it's question of game design.
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You can't change the players with appeals for a different gameplay.
Don't appeal. Don't gritch. Don't cry. Don't 'log in disgust' (after 20 seconds or 20 minutes). Play. Fly. Be the example .... and don't worry if they follow it or not. Have fun. Have fun with friends. Have fun alone. The only changes have been improvements (in spite of players who pretend to know a better time, way or game). Keep the community thriving. Sow seeds for another generation.
If not .... fek off.
(http://ic.c4assets.com/bips/father-ted/characters/7aebd7d4-5407-4165-b742-860b9a18046c.jpg?interpolation=progressive-bicubic&output-quality=90)
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You missed the point by a mile.
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You missed the point by a mile.
He does that :D
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You missed the point by a mile.
I'm making the point. :D
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He does that :D
I've never been one to tell other players what to do.
Again.
Just do.
Fret not.
Just do. :D
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Its getting harder to "Just Do" when there are getting to be less and less players to "Just Do" it with.
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Ok, then just beech. I'll do. ;)
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It's easy to "just do" as long as your plans don't involve interacting with enemy aircraft on a consistent basis.
Wiley.
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(https://i.imgur.com/4uPKdkM.png) :D
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I'll trade with the ones complaining about a game. I can't play because my home flooded from the 51.88 inches of rain that Harvey dumped in my area.
I'd love to be flying. You are so lucky you can.
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Sorry Shuff, I hope everything works out ok.
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We have room for you in Lubbock, Shuf. You can take over my pc.
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I'll trade with the ones complaining about a game. I can't play because my home flooded from the 51.88 inches of rain that Harvey dumped in my area.
I'd love to be flying. You are so lucky you can.
Perfect example right there to quit complaining , now go enjoy shootin the bad guys down.
Hope you get things back in order soon Shuffler :cheers:
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I'm done with you and your baiting. *plonk*
I think we have a new BBS queen
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I think we have a new BBS queen
"I'll have my crown now!! I said I'll have my crown NOW!!!!"
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This game cost less ten one breakfast out a month. Anyone that cannot afford to pay $14.95 a month probably cannot even afford the computer it takes to play the game. I have been play online games for years and if anyone really think the other games that are worth a damn are free they are not playing them. I played this game a good month before getting my first kill but I just kept watching what the guys were doing that landed a lot of kills. I checked to see what airplanes they were flying and tried to learn how to fly them myself. Giving the game for free is really a silly idea.
When my two week trial ended in 2005 there were commercials on television and 500+ persons in the arena, $15/month was a no brainer. Today with low numbers and a steep learning curve there really isn't much incentive to spend the monthly fee after your trail is complete. + 100 on free EW birds or a plane of the month.
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This game cost less ten one breakfast out a month. Anyone that cannot afford to pay $14.95 a month probably cannot even afford the computer it takes to play the game.
Looks like there are thousands in that boat then.
Giving the game for free is really a silly idea.
Nobody said give it away for free. The idea is to bait the hook so that you retain some of those noobs, providing targets for paying customers, and eventually addicting the newcomers so much they decide to pay for a subscription. It's about generating/driving critical mass.
"Priming the pump" to steal a phrase.
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Nobody said give it away for free. The idea is to bait the hook so that you retain some of those noobs, providing targets for paying customers, and eventually addicting the newcomers so much they decide to pay for a subscription. It's about generating/driving critical mass.
"Priming the pump" to steal a phrase.
I invented that phrase. Seriously, though, there's a way to give a pint of milk without giving away the cow. I agree with you there. The other part is steamer ... I mean newbie adoption. Not to brainwash ... just to train. :D
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Hey thank fellas....
I would really rather be in game and being shot at by yall. I'll be moving my RV over to the house in a month or so. I may setup my gear when I do. I really do miss all the fun and BSing with everyone.
I'm still supporting the game and will be back, hopefully soon.
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+1 for the reasoning. I'd add it is also to give those of us who *DO* pay more stuff to shoot at.
Even better. If someone playing for free does the dirty job of driving a tank, or even resupplying bases - more time for me to fly, without having to worry about that part of the war. More stuff to shoot at, less boring things to do.
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I invented that phrase. Seriously, though, there's a way to give a pint of milk without giving away the cow. I agree with you there. The other part is steamer ... I mean newbie adoption. Not to brainwash ... just to train. :D
Well, they're on the case so we will just have to support their efforts and be patient.
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It's always us getting ganged by them. Always! :noid
To win the game, just master the art of making the other two sides fight mostly eachother, by any means possible.