Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 19zac on November 20, 2017, 12:34:42 PM
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Hello!
It has been a long time since I have been active on Aces High, but now I am back (In game handle "BZacc" now), and I am pumped to be a part of the community again.
Now that I am flying again, I have had some thoughts that I wanted to get some opinions on. Mainly, this $15 a month business. I preface this by stating that I do not necessarily have a problem paying that fee to play this awesome game, but judging by the number of people in the MA at any given time, there are a lot of people that do not want to pay that much money for this game.
Monthly fees has become an antiquated method for making a profit in today's gaming world. As one of the younger members in this game (I am 22) I can attest to that fact. The most popular games in the world right now are run by micro-transactions. And no, I am not suggesting the totally idiotic way of doing micro-transactions, like EA does with their games. I am suggesting the micro-transation methods that Counterstrike, League of Legends, Rocket League, and various Blizzard games implement (as well as many others).
To start, the overall goal here to get more people into the game, and the side effect being that HighTech makes MORE MONEY.
So what does Counterstrike and League of legends do? SKINS! People today are suckers for in-game skins on different items. This is a system that AHIII already uses! There are so many wonderful plane designs. Why not keep adding them, and make them 49-99 cents each?
Second, perk points! I have been thinking about this one for a while, because I realize this could change the whole feel of the game. This is just my idea and I feel it could be tweaked, so hang with me.
Make more planes worth perk points, even if its a small amount. That is, Spit 16, P51, B17 all cost maybe 8 perk points. Or maybe an LA is 6 perk points. All I am suggesting is to make the perk points more valuable in some way. Maybe that means making them harder to obtain? With that, there could be a way to buy the perk points. I cannot suggest a price for perkies, but what I would say is that any new player would have to come into the came with maybe 35 perks already available to them. The game could not turn into a pay-to-win type deal. All of the most popular games out there today are not pay-to-win, but pay-to-look-good (hence skins). By allowing players to start with perk points, they would still be able to use the better planes that they want to use. Maybe part of this system would be that all earned perk points at the end of a map, or even at the end of a month are wasted. All bought perk points are maintained.
There may be others ways to implement this idea too, but I am just not sure.
I have no idea what you guys are going to think about this. But I believe that in the end, this would grow the community while making High Tech MORE MONEY. This is just the direction that games are moving today, and it works. I can see why a new player wouldn't want to pay the 15 bucks to continue playing a game where he still cant even fly straight after the two week trial is done. This system would encourage players to stay.
Thanks for the time, hope to see you all in the skies.
<S>
Zac
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Monthly fees has become an antiquated method for making a profit in today's gaming world. As one of the younger members in this game (I am 22) I can attest to that fact.
As one of the somewhat older subscribers of AH (I am nearly 45), I am fine with how it is. Defined as antiquated or not, it still works.
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I tend to agree with you. As I mentioned, im okay with the fee. But if AH has any hope of expanding the community so we can get more than 200 people in the MA, I feel like a change has to be made. What if the fee was only 5 dollars, and then there was some microtransaction for plane skins? Just throwing out ideas.
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I tend to agree with you. As I mentioned, im okay with the fee. But if AH has any hope of expanding the community so we can get more than 200 people in the MA, I feel like a change has to be made. What if the fee was only 5 dollars, and then there was some microtransaction for plane skins? Just throwing out ideas.
I already saw this stuff in Elite Dangerous. I briefly tried that game.
Yuck.
I'm one of those boring folks who likes to spend his money on more practical, real-life material matters, and not spend a lot on virtual "stuff". :old:
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Monthly fees mean the game is the same for everybody. Monthly fees means your plane is 100% identical to the next guys, and that he hasn't paid to unlock a 200hp engine upgrade. Monthly fees are how SERIOUS games have done it for decades now.
Micro-transactions are by games that cheat and gives shortcuts. Microtransaction games are for phone clones of bejeweled or for arcade games that give you free power-ups or unlocks. Well that's 100% useless and really BAD for a game that is built upon skill and fairness. You can't shortcut skill.
If you want to request that HTC lower their monthly subscription rate, go for it. Don't ask for microtransactions because that would destroy every last point of this game existing and remove the only thing from it that keeps people playing: That you have to learn and get better as you go.
There is no grind right now. By putting in micro-transactions you require a fake grind to be added so that people then have reason to bypass it regularly.
Microtransactions don't work in a vacuum. They're there to keep bilking money from players. They also cost a lot more than flat subscription rate games because they keep introducing more and more reasons to cheat or bypass a grind with real world money. If Aces High started looking like World of Tanks I'd quit instantly. No thanks.
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I hear you, and you're right. I feel the same. Just take a look at what I am suggesting again.
I would never suggest this game turn into War Thunder or World of Tanks. I would never want to play a game where you pay for "upgrades". All im suggesting is the possibility to buy skins, which is not a performance enhancer. And the perk points would not be much different than it already is. Also it would not take away the aspect that you would have to learn to get better, not in the least bit. How would anything I am suggesting change that? Im not saying that upgrades can be bought. Im just suggesting making perk points more valuable. Either way you have to learn how to fly in order to make the 262 worth flying. In this system, your plane would be the same as mine no matter what.
I am not suggesting the type if Micro-transaction that makes you better. I am suggesting the one that the most popular games use that are purely cosmetic. I understand that messing with the perk system is delicate, and I would not want to change the nature of the game. So that part would take thought. But I just want to make sure you don't think im suggesting that we make this game like World of Tanks. That would be ridiculous, i agree.
Sorry if I was not completely clear in the first message. But to clarify, I would never want a game that is Pay to Win. I mentioned that before. PtW games are terrible, and as you said, create a grind that you can bypass. No thanks. I just want a bigger community.
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In this game, cosmetics could convey an ingame advantage. Different camo against certain backgrounds, etc etc.
Couple that with the fact they'd need to employ skinners now to create new content, and keep creating that content so the cash keeps coming, well...
Wiley.
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I already saw this stuff in Elite Dangerous. I briefly tried that game.
But unlike other games, all the 'microtransaction' stuff in E:D is strictly of cosmetic nature. No need to buy anything of that stuff at all, you don't have any disadvantage by not buying a flashy ship kit for your Anaconda.
On the other hand, look at the current EA outrage...
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Strange, I thought I posted in reply but apparently I am button challenged.
The biggest question I would have is are you going to get 15 a week of revenue month in month out by selling skins or other "stuff"? I would suggest staying away from anything that confers an advantage, for instance perk points. Doing the arithmetic and assuming there is no cost to offering skins for sale a player would have buy 180 skins a year.
Basically AH is a niche game so I don't think that changing the revenue model on its own is really going to change the number of subscribers. I have never understood the economics of this game to start with, I mean if there are 2000 subscribers that is only 360,000 a year in revenue which seems a pittance once you figure in overhead.
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Strange, I thought I posted in reply but apparently I am button challenged.
Basically AH is a niche game so I don't think that changing the revenue model on its own is really going to change the number of subscribers. I have never understood the economics of this game to start with, I mean if there are 2000 subscribers that is only 360,000 a year in revenue which seems a pittance once you figure in overhead.
Yea, in the end, you're right. I dont get it either. Maybe there is no solution; i definitely can't claim this is a perfect idea, im just brainstorming. The ultimate goal would to have so many people where they would end up making more than they do now, because in other games people will buy in-game stuff all the time, even though absolutely none of it is for advantage, purely show. But i guess between the time that this hypothetical system would be implemented and the time where they would make more money than they do now, they would be losing a toejamload.
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I always thought having 10-15 decent planes for free in the MA and the rest for subscription players would work, but what do I know.
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I think you could probably do something in the line of E-sports or maybe organized events that had some AI component. I don't mean self organized but "professionally" organized. Sort of like scenarios but with a little more support/augmentation. Limited life limited time, maybe a prize? Anyway something that would take a fair amount of time and money to implement well. The open ended nature of AH is what makes it great but at the same time I think a lot of players really feel like the game is at its best during FSO or special events. Hell you could bring back air racing if you had a way of automating it, it was fun but it was always at the wrong time. Also this page: https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/index.php (https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/index.php) shows who is online and what they are flying (depending on when you look at it there might not be anyone there, it's a niche of a niche) and maybe AH could use something like that, and then if it did have some kind of automated air racing or what not it could have a timer counting down the hours till the event started, I dunno just thinking out loud.
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Just like putting a game on Steam isn't guaranteed to increase new players, adding micro-transactions will have the same result. It is not guaranteed to increase new players or increase profits for HTC.
Quite frankly, I don't think the subscription part of AH is conducive to a micro-transaction business model. However, I do think that micro-transactions can work in the free to play portion of AH, namely with the Match Play arena, where you can use micro-transactions for things like custom skins, sounds, etc.
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Just like putting a game on Steam isn't guaranteed to increase new players, adding micro-transactions will have the same result. It is not guaranteed to increase new players or increase profits for HTC.
Thats a good point. I guess my goal isnt to increase new players, its just to make it more likely that those who do join stay and play the game. That seems to be the issue to me. People play the game, play for two weeks, enjoy it, but cannot justify paying 15 a month for it. Im just trying to find a way around that. But i do realize this will never go past a forum discussion. to me, Its interesting to hear what people think about it.
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I always thought having 10-15 decent planes for free in the MA and the rest for subscription players would work, but what do I know.
Part of me really hates that... Part of me really thinks there's some merit in it.
I really don't like the whole division in playerbase it creates, but.... on the other hand... we'd have floods of players if that were the case. Question is: How many would subscribe? Would it just be a drain on HTC, or would it pay off?
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Microtransactions are a cancer in the gaming industry. Look how angry gamers are with EA and Battlefront 2. There are very, very few games that can implement them well (Paths of Exile is one). Even the mention of microtransactions in a game will have many, MANY people throw the idea of playing out of the window. The subscription system alone is turning many away from playing, especially when side-by-side with 'free' games (even if they have cancerous pay for advantage stuff).
Microtransactions would be the nail in AH's coffin.
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Microtransactions are a cancer in the gaming industry. Look how angry gamers are with EA and Battlefront 2. There are very, very few games that can implement them well (Paths of Exile is one). Even the mention of microtransactions in a game will have many, MANY people throw the idea of playing out of the window. The subscription system alone is turning many away from playing, especially when side-by-side with 'free' games (even if they have cancerous pay for advantage stuff).
Microtransactions would be the nail in AH's coffin.
In my original post I said that making it the way EA does it is a ridiculous idea. I am referring to the Counterstrike method of doing it. Everything is purely cosmetic. EA is a terrible company and I do not buy any of their games because of how poorly they handle Microtransactions. I am trying to suggest to all you old-school gamers the newer / better way to use microtransactions that make companies alot of money but do not give people ANY advantage in the game. I think that would grow the community. People associate microtrans with Pay to Win. That is not always the case and i think a Pay to Win game sucks. But I do get that my idea here may not have a place in Aces High.
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IMHO it's HiTech's horse and it should be up to him how to ride it. I'm perfectly satisfied with the system currently in place.
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In my original post I said that making it the way EA does it is a ridiculous idea. I am referring to the Counterstrike method of doing it. Everything is purely cosmetic. EA is a terrible company and I do not buy any of their games because of how poorly they handle Microtransactions. I am trying to suggest to all you old-school gamers the newer / better way to use microtransactions that make companies alot of money but do not give people ANY advantage in the game. I think that would grow the community. People associate microtrans with Pay to Win. That is not always the case and i think a Pay to Win game sucks. But I do get that my idea here may not have a place in Aces High.
Why should somebody have to pay to use a historical, community made cosmetic (in this game, that's a skin). Why would we turn the match play arena into a place that in no way represents what the game is or stands for with less-than historical, or ridiculous skins?
I think the Skinners of Aces High see their work as tributes to the actual history of whatever aircraft or vehicle is being represented in the game. I think they would hate to see people being forced to pay, in order to fly the plane of their favorite ace, or the plane of an actual family member (something I have seen happen in this community).
In my opinion, Aces High is still more of a hobby to the small crew that makes it, and less of a business. If Hitech really wanted to make a ton of cash, he could have likely sold his business at it's peak. I cant pretend to know Hitech and the rest of HTC, but I do believe they care more about the community than the money (as long as it still pays the bills).
I could also be crazy and talking nonsense. 100% possible.
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-1 $15 bucks gets you everything you need for the whole month.
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I''d buy an AHIII hat or jacket, if made available.
Coogan
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....., but what do I know.
If you're young enough, everything.
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If you're young enough, everything.
It's tough being the smartest guy around.
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i will fly my plane or planes with default skin before I by a skin even if it were 1 penny.
I live in Texas where we pay tax so I pay 16.03 per month to fly or drive when I want how I want. and talk to other players they way I want within the rules hehe.
but you don't see me or any other Texas player griping about having to pay tax.
I love this this game as it is. and I will pay and play as long as I am able to---esp since I got my 4th star hehe yeee hawwww.
and why is there always somebody- a returning player or a new player trying to get HiTech to give his lively hood away for free? the man has to pay people the make this game work, and they aren't going to do it for free, and he can't do it by himself Neff said. :bolt:
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I just can't see how to implement a micro transaction system that would work for AH. I agree that we need to try more to get new players flying, but I don't think that is the way to do it.
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I just can't see how to implement a micro transaction system that would work for AH. I agree that we need to try more to get new players flying, but I don't think that is the way to do it.
Neither can I. Micro-transactions could turn this game into a nightmare.
I still think a half dozen free planes in the MA would help boast the numbers. That would bring in the "Steam" players looking for the "free" games. More players only will help bring in more players. Someone checking out the game see's 300 players on a weekday after school why wouldn't they give it a try. They fly the free planes for a few months , and are now hooked, and buy the subscription to check out all the other planes.
If HTC want to get a bit more into it maybe ....
Level 1
1 vehicle, 1 buff, and 4 fighters all early war for free
Level 2
2 vehicles, 2 buffs, and 8 fighters 3/4 early war, 1/4 mid war, for $5 a month
Level 3
4 vehicles, 4 buffs, and 12 fighters split 50-50 early mid war, for $10 a month
Level 4
All equipment for $15 month
Pay for what you want with out "paying to win"
HTC already has the infrastructure as servers can handle up to 1000 players at once so no need to spend money to accommodate more players even if they aren't adding money to HTC's coffers. It wont "hurt" the game, wont cost anything other than the time to write the coad for it, and could in the long run help the game.
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In Warbirds 2.xx I flew in the Air Combat Arena under my dads account. It was free with a few planes enabled IIRC they were mostly middle of the road versions of the iconic birds. It made me want to fly the full price planes enough that I risked going into the main arena against my dad's wishes to do it.
And I got caught, because that was $2.00 per hour or something at that point. Lol.
Of course this wouldn't really work now since anyone could make their own arena with ALL the planes, but it is the reason I (maybe foolishly) think having a limited set of competitive planes in the MA couldn't hurt.
On the other hand I may have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Neither can I. Micro-transactions could turn this game into a nightmare.
I still think a half dozen free planes in the MA would help boast the numbers. That would bring in the "Steam" players looking for the "free" games. More players only will help bring in more players. Someone checking out the game see's 300 players on a weekday after school why wouldn't they give it a try. They fly the free planes for a few months , and are now hooked, and buy the subscription to check out all the other planes.
If HTC want to get a bit more into it maybe ....
Level 1
1 vehicle, 1 buff, and 4 fighters all early war for free
Level 2
2 vehicles, 2 buffs, and 8 fighters 3/4 early war, 1/4 mid war, for $5 a month
Level 3
4 vehicles, 4 buffs, and 12 fighters split 50-50 early mid war, for $10 a month
Level 4
All equipment for $15 month
Pay for what you want with out "paying to win"
HTC already has the infrastructure as servers can handle up to 1000 players at once so no need to spend money to accommodate more players even if they aren't adding money to HTC's coffers. It wont "hurt" the game, wont cost anything other than the time to write the coad for it, and could in the long run help the game.
I don't see how any of these kinds of revenue collection systems can work like the way it is. This plan, (Sorry, not bashing - it's just handy to use as an example) would cause some players paying full price to stop since they can fly and survive in early war planes. I usually flew only a single mid-war plane at the end of my playing days, so I would have dropped how much I contributed. Granted, these types of players are few and far between, but I think the frugal minded out there would adapt to these lower priced options. I can only see the way forward that is possible of slowing the decline is to hire a sophisticated marketing company who has an international reach as well as a much better system for new players to find the info needed to learn the game.
I have been of the opinion since I joined in 2008 or so that it was too hard for new guys to find the game play info easily enough. I don't see that much has been done about that since just finding the quick reference sheet for in-game commands takes at least two or three drop down menus and or links to get to and you have to kind of remember which choice it is under which I can today since I went through there recently, but probably will forget in a couple weeks. It should have a giant, red, blinking button on the main page and the first thing in the training drop down list since it makes getting started so much easier.
Even better would be a well written guide downloaded with the game as a PDF or something. Everyone says, "The training arena is your friend," but lets be honest, there is usually not a trainer in there and no way for a person to find the info they need by themselves. It took someone to tell me on the fourth or fifth day of trying the game to look at Netaces or something to find the info to actually get started by myself. I eventually found the info on the HT main pages, but it was usually buried.
I doubt this is the all winning option, but it would reach a broader audience with meaningful product info and appeal and address the systemic issue about training and game play info. Item one would have a high cost, yes, but might be worth it in future returns. The second part is nearly penniless and could have a greater impact on new player retention in my opinion.
$.02 posted and will probably be blown off as usual. :)
<Salute>
Punk
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I''d buy an AHIII hat or jacket, if made available.
Coogan
Apparently people said that but nobody did, so HTC got burned on merchandizing and have no interest in doing it any time soon.
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Neither can I. Micro-transactions could turn this game into a nightmare.
I still think a half dozen free planes in the MA would help boast the numbers. That would bring in the "Steam" players looking for the "free" games. More players only will help bring in more players.
I don't like youre tiered system. It's just bad for gameplay and smacks of pay-to-win.
However about the "half dozen" I'd pare that down. One fighter, one bomber, one twin engine attacker and one tank.
Has to be something you can get by in but not totally destabilizing if a bunch of newbies show up in hordes (best case scenario). P-51B, B-25C, Bf110G, PanzerIV H.
That's what I would propose. No more than that. Gives them jabo, fighter, escort, a little turn and burn, gives them bomber formations, the ability to hit towns or strats with 3000lbs x3, gives them the ability to pound targets with 110G cannons or to hunt bombers, gives them just about any role they could want without unbalancing the arena. Not the best planes of their respective eras, but good, solid planes. Leaves people with a taste of the good stuff but also shows them that if they subscribe they'll get more. More guns, more speed, more loadouts, more options in other planes, etc.
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A horde of newbies in 110Gs... HO Warrior! :D
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Well, remember that if a bunch of newbies gets into a 110G even if they HO everything, they aren't going to be a major threat to anybody half awake. Dodge the HO and then ... well.. dogmeat.
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Even better would be a well written guide downloaded with the game as a PDF or something. Everyone says, "The training arena is your friend," but lets be honest, there is usually not a trainer in there and no way for a person to find the info they need by themselves. It took someone to tell me on the fourth or fifth day of trying the game to look at Netaces or something to find the info to actually get started by myself. I eventually found the info on the HT main pages, but it was usually buried.
<Salute>
Punk
I really like this. I think the main problem is that new players just don't want to stick around, probably because it can be pretty hard to learn this game. Thats why I was suggesting to get rid of the monthly fee, but I realize there does not seem like a good way of going about that. The next best thing would to make it easier to learn the game. There could be some steps taken, like a comprehensive PDF sheet or something of the like. That would help newbies jump into the game without feeling so overwhelmed.
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I thought there were introductory videos linked from the opening page. No?
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Now I am not someone who would start spending money on cosmetic stuff but having said that I would definitely buy penguinz0 Professor Sad style noseart for a reasonable price. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwZfcpMj300 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwZfcpMj300)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7c42KAp3rE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7c42KAp3rE)
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If we had skins like that! :eek: :angel:
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So, getting back on topic...
Maybe give players those options? Offer various levels at cheaper monthly rates? Or offer early war stuff for free, and if you want anything else, it's $15 a month?
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Nah, i'd say make all bombers free and charge monthly for fighters. :x
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The only reason I added the tiered system was to many newbies "$15 a month is a lot of money for a game!", but maybe $5 isnt. The point is to get more players into the MA. Once they are there we all know how much of an addiction this can become. Keeping the new players locked out AFTER their 2 weeks are up isnt going to help anyone. One of the biggest complaints you see over at steam is they find the "game isnt free". They dont care about the custom arenas or WWI because their is nobody in there. So to them it ISNT FREE.
Get them in the MA with a few free planes and get them hooked. Even if only a third of the players that start out "free" and then get a subscription it is still adding subscriptions that at this point dont seem to be rolling in. As I said, with the infrastructure HTC already has this shouldn't "cost" them anything but the time to coad it. I cant see a down side to it.
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The biggest attraction Aces High had before the competition reared its ugly head was the diversity and novelty of being able to pilot so many different and some rare planes. Unfortunately Aces High lost that edge, I am not sure what a good direction is. :airplane:
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The idea of free with a very limited set of rides has merit in today's era of gaming. I think a real barrier that will get in the way of this is finding the magic bullet to getting people setup with our kind of hardware at the basic level to even be competitive. The limited ride set has to be limited enough to not encourage lazy selfish vets to cancel their subscriptions to poke Hitech in the eye. And they would blame Hitech for being stupid and killing his own game all the way to the last closing of the doors. And is the real danger of offering something of this nature.
Free is always leveraged into an entitlement, then into a right, then into demands for parity with those who are paying the full monti to even the social inequity. Paying up front the full monti every month, then the only inequity is how much you are willing to put into being good with your rides.
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If we had skins like that! :eek: :angel:
Noseart not skins. :old: Or custom bright red, yellow etc nose patterns, P-47 style cowl stripes, tail stripes ...
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Noseart not skins. :old: Or custom bright red, yellow etc nose patterns, P-47 style cowl stripes, tail stripes ...
One "fluff" thing I'd love to see in the game is personal nose art and markings. I understand why it's not in but I sure do wish it could be done. Storage is cheap, so what if we'd have to get them submitted and approved like squad art?
Wiley.
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In a way, the monthly fee is a filter. It helps keep out some of the free play children that plague so many games.
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I'd take some plague if it meant I had targets to shoot at, as long as the squelch list was up to the task.
Wiley.
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I want to point out one review of AH on steam.
"Aces High 3 quite a fun game, but I'm not paying $15 a month for this. I figured when it was free to play and had in app purchases it was skins or perk points for planes, not paying for the one server with maybe 175 people on busy days.
Would not even be leaving a bad review if it was upfront about the monthly subscription on here, which is ridiculous unless you have tons of disposable income. I would pay $30 once for the whole thing, not $180 over a year which is about a third of the cost in equipment to be competitive. (Vr, good joystick, pedals)
Otherwise likely the best combat flight simulator, really makes me sad to not recommend it."
The thing is, there are countless reviewers raving about the game, about how it is a top notch flight sim, that is a ton of fun to play. But monthly subscriptions just are not a thing anymore for games. (And clearly, as stated before, EA's style of making money is total crap. Who wants to buy half a game for 60 bucks and then pay another 60 for the rest of it, and then need to buy things in game to stay competitive).
Isn't there a way to get around the monthly fee? or atleast make it less? When I started this conversation my intent was not to claim that I have the best idea out there for how to make this game more popular. My intent was to get us talking (which I must say, I am impressed by how much chatter this produced) and maybe, in the end, come up with a way that would get more people to stick to this game. I get that some of you old folks are content to just pay your 15 a month and go about playing the game like you always have. I personally do not mind paying the 15 a month for this game either, its worth it to me for the fantastic gameplay. I just wish others would get on board. It would be awesome to log on and see 400 in the MA. And if it got to 400 through some change in the system, no doubt it could get to 700.
Definitely not suggesting Pay-to-Win, guys, so please don't tell me about how no one is happy with EA because of their micro-transaction system, because yes, they suck and I would never suggest that system be implemented in ANY game, nevermind AH.
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We can "discuss" all we want. It is ultimately HTC's game and decision about subscriptions/rates.
Personally I think HTC is going to have to look into changing something. The Steam numbers where way beyond Hitechs expectations when it went live, but I dont see the numbers climbing all that much in the arena. Why is that? My guess is the subscription scared away a lot of players. Subscription base is NOT the way of todays gamers. Hitech is going to have to change with the times if he wants to entice more new players from that pool of gamers.
If on the other hand he is happy with what he has then we all should learn to be happy with what we have.
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I think the payment model is a good conversation to have. Seems to me the game is populated by many people my age (50) and up. We are probably not the people best placed to ask about change as we love the game as it is, just with more people in it.
When I see suggestions like this I always think of Uber. Traditional players in the market place hate Uber, it is somehow unfair and is taking their business away from them. The customer loves Uber for its convenience and slightly lower price point. But if you think about it, traditional taxis and Uber both do exactly the same thing. Call for a ride, ride to destination, pay fare. The only real difference is the medium in which the transaction is done.
I think free to play with in game purchases is a good idea. I would definitely pay for a unique skin. Trading paints seems to do ok in iRacing.
My $0.02
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If free to play means free gets you everything $14.95 gets you, then what does that mean for everyone paying $14.95? At that point we all should cancel our subs and play for free. If a limited ride set is enough for the freebe players, and the arena fills back to 400 a night, then what good is that for Hitech to meet his bills and make a profit.
How do we have this conversation when we only talk about taking money away from Hitech so the arena will fill up with free loaders? If you give them a limited ride set with the option to buy additional goodies. Those free loaders were cheap skates to begin with, so why should they pay for anything if the limited ride set can get them through the evening? You can't just give them garbage rides if you really want to hook them, at which point making them semi competitive, most of them will live with that since it will be free.
Could always war thunder them and give them the ability to fly in a very limited F3 mode just behind the rudder viewing only forward requiring keypad views to look around. Put a fixed dot on their screen for the gunsight. Tie this specifically to a gamey xBox style controller system for them and let them fly in our physics environment sitting on top of the rudder using key views. That would solve the hardware cultural shock issue, give them a gamey perspective keypad view system, and probably get them killed more than it would be worth to any of us. As soon as they plug in a joystick, they only get the standard cockpit views. But, it would bridge their familiarity gap transitioning to this game. GV's would be simple for them in commander mode and gunner mode. This might hold their interest a bit longer.
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If you follow the gaming threads on Twitter and Groups on FB you would know that the trend of micro-transactions (pay to win) has lost favor with gamers, and the games that start life out with this model are having trouble earning followers (and money).
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If you follow the gaming threads on Twitter and Groups on FB you would know that the trend of micro-transactions (pay to win) has lost favor with gamers, and the games that start life out with this model are having trouble earning followers (and money).
Which is why there has to be something new. Free to play with a limited set of planes/vehicles, or maybe a tiered program paying for more equipment as the rate goes up. But there has to be some kind of difference, or the same old will slowly die away
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If you follow the gaming threads on Twitter and Groups on FB you would know that the trend of micro-transactions (pay to win) has lost favor with gamers, and the games that start life out with this model are having trouble earning followers (and money).
Look at my original post in this thread. Micro-transaction does not necessarily mean Pay to Win. I have said a couple times that PtW, like War Thunder, would ruin the game. I think a Counterstrike micro-transaction system would work. No not everyone would spend the money on cosmetics but, many would, which is shown many other games in today's market (Rocket League, Counter Strike, League of Legends). In theory, the growth in population, with no monthly fee, but the input of cosmetic micro-transactions would make HTC even more money while growing the community. Maybe even allow a two week trial still to get people in but then require a one time purchase of $30. I know It would be very easy for me to justify putting money into a non PtW Micro transaction system considering ive already justified 15 a month. Ive personally seen people dump HUNDREDS of dollars into CounterStrike and League of Legends, and that's all on SKINS in those games. AH already has skins. No doubt in my mind people would put down money for plane skins. I realize that might not be enough, but I feel that this idea could be extrapolated. As Fugitive said, if the game is gonna grow something needs to change and the monthly fee just isn't cutting it. But... If HTC is happy with where the game is then none of this matters anyway.
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I already have all of the skins, why would I buy them?
Coogan
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I already have all of the skins, why would I buy them?
Coogan
How about a skin totally unique to you. EVERYONE knows it is you flying that plane. How cool would that be!! Of course you have to earn the title as well as have the skin :)
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How about a skin totally unique to you. EVERYONE knows it is you flying that plane. How cool would that be!! Of course you have to earn the title as well as have the skin :)
As much as I get shot down, I think everyone knows it's me when I fly... :furious
Coogan
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I already have all of the skins, why would I buy them?
Coogan
Its tough to implement this when you've already paid for the full game / have all the skins. It wouldn't make sense to take them away from you. Maybe the system is only implemented for new players starting at a specific date? Idk. I wouldn't want to have to pay extra for skins either, after putting all this money into the game. But a new player would have no such inclination.
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If you follow the gaming threads on Twitter and Groups on FB you would know that the trend of micro-transactions (pay to win) has lost favor with gamers, and the games that start life out with this model are having trouble earning followers (and money).
Paradigm shift time once again in the computer gaming industry.
The brutality of this game demands more out of even our casual players if they want to spend their evening in a ride and not as a perma-scalp. Getting a controller setup that is familiar to the new player is the next hurdle to not being a perma-scalp. I believe gamers who are game pad and mouse centric hardware players are no less intelligent and able to learn this game than SIMM players who made the effort to have the niche hardware to fully enjoy our game.
Only Hitech knows how many new players try the game and leave the first night or in the first week. I will venture their real experiential problem was a lack of comfort due to hardware frustrations. It's par for the course that gamepad and mouse players can hop into games with those controllers, not RTFM, and have a good go for the first night. Free is a catchall boogyman to cover for being cheap about everything on the Internet or, not having to admit being stumped by hardware issues. I didn't start reading the game manual for 10 years. How many will look at themselves as the problem first, then try again? Free is an easy thing to toss out along with graphics and any other excuse because it's always someone else's fault the product wasn't friendly enough to the customers expected orientation.
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I have to agree that there has been a paradigm shift in the gaming industry - the idea of having multiple levels of player membership isn't a bad one. AH isn't going to attract a lot of $15/Mo membership from steam until the numbers get way up from where they are now.
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1. - 1 fighter, 1 bomber and 1 tank, M16, 1 GV: $3 per\month
2. - 4 fighter, 3 bomber and 3 tank, wrible, 3 GV: $7 per\month
3. - 7 fighter, 5 bomber and 5 tank, m16\wirble, 3 GV $10 per\month
4. - $14.95 for the whole stable.
Don't cheap skate the fighters so those who stick around can compete and grow in skill. And promote a desire to go full stable as they develop their skill. The first 3, a system to change it up each month depending on how the player's finances are. Still in the end, how many "vets" decide to go cheap is the danger of killing Hitech's profit margin. Since $14.95 is all there is right now, no one knows how many are cheap skates wishing there were only some way to pull it off. All the voices for FPS suggests there would be a grand exodus from the whole stable price in a few months. I can already see one excuse you will hear. Why pay $14.95 to play with only 120 or less when I login only a few nights a week.
One through three would be like the salesman who said he could make up for the depression in the Industry pricing by volume of units.
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One of my current thoughts is a weekly tournaments with $500 to a $1k prize to the winner once a week.
HiTech
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My issue with that is: It will only reward the same names over and over again. "Dueling" in this game is a practiced skillset that differs from general combat. It's a very specific set of timings and techniques that might get you killed in the MA during a normal engagement. In short, people train themselves to fly and fight that way, as in the DA. The same people that have learned how to game that particular game are going to have an edge up on ANY johnny-come-lately that might try their hat at a competition -- or it might just dissuade people from participating at all.
It caters to a specific sub-set, is what I mean, and might leave the rest out.
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My issue with that is: It will only reward the same names over and over again. "Dueling" in this game is a practiced skillset that differs from general combat. It's a very specific set of timings and techniques that might get you killed in the MA during a normal engagement. In short, people train themselves to fly and fight that way, as in the DA. The same people that have learned how to game that particular game are going to have an edge up on ANY johnny-come-lately that might try their hat at a competition -- or it might just dissuade people from participating at all.
It caters to a specific sub-set, is what I mean, and might leave the rest out.
The idea is to CREATE a hole new subset. Not cater to the existing.
HiTech
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The idea is to CREATE a hole new subset. Not cater to the existing.
HiTech
Yeah, but it still is only going to be those who pown everyone. The leet of the leet will always be playing and winning. Joe schmoe will never have a chance and you will just be incentivizing a couple guys to drop their day jobs and be pro AHIII players is what Krusty was saying I think. I am scared to hear you want to pay players cash. A months free subscription, okay. Cash? Most never have a chance at it unless it is a login lottery.
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The idea is to CREATE a hole new subset. Not cater to the existing.
HiTech
what kind of subset are you looking to create? All I see is the same 5 or 6 guys who win koth taking how 500-1000 a week.
The same 500-1000 = 30-60 monthly subscriptions given away per week, 120-240 free months.
Pull 50 names a month from the active subscribers pool and give them a free month. Everyone has a chance that way, newbies included.
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The idea is to CREATE a hole new subset. Not cater to the existing.
HiTech
You're thinking ESport? Hmp. Interesting. Kind of seems a bit of putting the cart before the horse, from what I've seen elsewhere. Players first, then cash tournaments seems to be generally how it goes.
Wiley.
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One of my current thoughts is a weekly tournaments with $500 to a $1k prize to the winner once a week.
HiTech
This is an idea I have thought of for another place. Someone with the skills could earn a living out of it! Great way to attract players.
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One of my current thoughts is a weekly tournaments with $500 to a $1k prize to the winner once a week.
HiTech
Don’t usually comment on this stuff but that is 133-266 players subs per month, maybe newbies get 1 month free instead of two weeks to try and learn and get hooked on the game. I suspect this is a troll as why would HT wanna give away $2-4K per month :headscratch:
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Can they sue the Internet for making them loose or their hardware manufacturers?
That much money per week would also have the few winners doing everything they could to have a business class internet connection and a gaming PC that could beat HAL at running a HaloDeck with a live brothel. You could never know if you lost to the Internet along your route or your opponent just purchased the gaming rig from heck and had ATT run him a fiber line to Hitech's office. At the skill level in question here, wining and loosing would come down to a few electrons not playing nice on any given day.
So will HTC have them play on a closed network with the exact same PC's and hardware from the same location? Money does strange things to humans.
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what kind of subset are you looking to create? All I see is the same 5 or 6 guys who win koth taking how 500-1000 a week.
The same 500-1000 = 30-60 monthly subscriptions given away per week, 120-240 free months.
Pull 50 names a month from the active subscribers pool and give them a free month. Everyone has a chance that way, newbies included.
Yep. The aces of AHIII will have a pretty steady income, while most average players will never see any prizes..
Coogan
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It seems to me that as an Esport air combat has a lot to recommend it. It is more of a general idea that has more to do with marketing and promotion than any particular software brand. It is an interesting thing to muse over. Do the profits come from selling software or subscriptions to an excited audience or selling advertising etc. on the back of events? If you are just handing out prizes to get people to sign up for the game as is I somehow think you don't really need to give hardly any money at all, look at video poker! I'd make it a little lottery like in that the prize would be a function of the level of subscriptions, I would also make it so that your average player had more than a zero chance of winning.
Outside of the box I think of coin-op where it is not the subscription for a game but the access to the game and the hardware, the old pinball or video model.
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One of my current thoughts is a weekly tournaments with $500 to a $1k prize to the winner once a week.
HiTech
You're a funny guy
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One of my current thoughts is a weekly tournaments with $500 to a $1k prize to the winner once a week.
HiTech
This would be cool, but don't you think there should be more of a player base first? I am all for Esports, and this idea would attract more people because that is what gaming is turning into right now. But we need a bigger community first, I think.
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Money does strange things to humans.
this
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Iracing has a similar playing pay and I can tell you iracing is very expensive. It be something like you get a P-47D40 for free but A P-47M would be $20.
The dueling tournament, would work better with something like a free month. You put too much money into winning and you turn people evil.
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I'm a new player from Steam. Figured I'd throw in my $0.02
I consider myself a bit of an anomaly. I joined from Steam and ended up staying, paying the subscription fee and joining a Squad so I can play on a regular basis/schedule. But I'm older 40's and I already had a decent hardware setup and have been playing flight sims since the mid 1980s.
Kids these days have a terrible sense of entitlement. I say we play into that notion...
As others have pointed out, I feel there are two problems that need to be tackled. Low number of players in the MA at any given time, and the subscription fee.
I think the solution is to allow free players into the MA, and make the subscription feel more valuable.
Allowing them into the MA will feed their entitlement needs. And they will not feel that the game is falsely advertising "free to play"
Now to set the subscription players apart from the free ones, simply limit what the free players can do.
Limit their plane,bomber,attack,vehicle set. Allow zero perk point accumulation. Limit their radio text channel access. No voice chat abilities. No ability to join a squad. No access to any special events.
Most of this should already minimize current subscribing players from taking advantage of using the free model. But you could take is further by making the limited plane set change. Make it random, or change daily, weekly, or on map rotation. Or even make it so it's a random plane set each time they crash or re-up.
Limit their options of plane customization. One set of guns, only 50-25% fuel, No or very limited Ords. Maybe even add a wait timer to re-up. Like a minute wait after crashing or being shot down. Anything other than a successful landing. You might even be able to go as far as limiting what airfield they can use, and disable country swapping.
The great thing about this game is the sheer number of planes and options... take it away from the free players, but just let them into the MA. The two week trial is just not enough for the entitlement generation.
And heaven forbid, if the player count in the MA gets too high with all the free players, make the free players wait in a queue, and give the subscribers priority access to the arenas.
Let them keep the ability to create and join private, custom arenas with full access. This will let them play with what they are missing from their free version of the MA.
I feel allowing the free players into the MA will boost the numbers enough to make more of them consider subscribing. The biggest complaint in the Steam reviews is the lack of number in the game to warrant paying... Then once they get a better taste for the game they will have a much better incentive to subscribe for all the planes, perks, radio, voice chat, squads, and special events. At worst it will add more targets to the MA and make it easier to find a fight. Finding a fight was another common complain from the Steam players. Even if they don't subscribe we all like more targets to shoot at right? And nothing changes for the current subscribers. We don't like change anyway.
Anyway that's my $0.02.
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I'm a new player from Steam. Figured I'd throw in my $0.02
I consider myself a bit of an anomaly. I joined from Steam and ended up staying, paying the subscription fee and joining a Squad so I can play on a regular basis/schedule. But I'm older 40's and I already had a decent hardware setup and have been playing flight sims since the mid 1980s.
Kids these days have a terrible sense of entitlement. I say we play into that notion...
As others have pointed out, I feel there are two problems that need to be tackled. Low number of players in the MA at any given time, and the subscription fee.
I think the solution is to allow free players into the MA, and make the subscription feel more valuable.
Allowing them into the MA will feed their entitlement needs. And they will not feel that the game is falsely advertising "free to play"
Now to set the subscription players apart from the free ones, simply limit what the free players can do.
Limit their plane,bomber,attack,vehicle set. Allow zero perk point accumulation. Limit their radio text channel access. No voice chat abilities. No ability to join a squad. No access to any special events.
Most of this should already minimize current subscribing players from taking advantage of using the free model. But you could take is further by making the limited plane set change. Make it random, or change daily, weekly, or on map rotation. Limit their options of plane customization. One set of guns, only 50-25% fuel, No or very limited Ords. Maybe even add a wait timer to re-up. Like a minute wait after crashing or being shot down. Anything other than a successful landing. You might even be able to go as far as limiting what airfield they can use, and disable country swapping.
The great thing about this game is the sheer number of planes and options... take it away from the free players, but just let them into the MA. The two week trial is just not enough for the entitlement generation.
And heaven forbid, if the player count in the MA gets too high with all the free players, make the free players wait in a queue, and give the subscribers priority access to the arenas.
Let them keep the ability to create and join private, custom arenas with full access. This will let them play with what they are missing from their free version of the MA.
I feel allowing the free players into the MA will boost the numbers enough to make more of them consider subscribing. The biggest complaint in the Steam reviews is the lack of number in the game to warrant paying... Then once they get a better taste for the game they will have a much better incentive to subscribe for all the planes, perks, radio, voice chat, squads, and special events. At worst it will add more targets to the MA and make it easier to find a fight. Finding a fight was another common complain from the Steam players. Even if they don't subscribe we all like more targets to shoot at right? And nothing changes for the current subscribers. We don't like change anyway.
Anyway that's my $0.02.
+1
What a well thought out reply. I like these ideas. :aok
Coogan
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I would think some form of free play involving the MA would be the best way to attempt growing the player base. Hang something in front of them while they get there feet wet.
Right now at two weeks.. they dont even know what they are missing before the trial ends. Some folks are lucky to log into any game once a week.
Im going to mess with default mouse settings this weekend to see if i can suggest any ways of making it easier.
It sounds like most of the new guys downloading the game dont even have gear. I think making life as easy as possible for them should be a priority.
The last mouse control change was a huge step in the right direction.
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I would think some form of free play involving the MA would be the best way to attempt growing the player base. Hang something in front of them while they get there feet wet.
Right now at two weeks.. they dont even know what they are missing before the trial ends. Some folks are lucky to log into any game once a week.
I agree. 2 weeks doesn't seem like a long enough trial period because those new players have yet to even figure out how addicting this game can be at that point. I think it needs to be a month, because at that time they would atleast know what they are doing a little bit (hopefully), and they would be more likely to stay.
I still think the 15 a month turns newbies off, almost immediately. Games aren't implementing subscriptions any longer. I just don't know how to change that without wrecking the game.
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World of Warcraft still has a comparable monthly subscription fee. They've made up to Level 20 Free to Play, but that's really enough to get outside of a newbie zone and into the main game... Maybe run 1 raid. The majority of the game is not accessible as free to Play, and they still do quite well with subscriptions.
:old:
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World of Warcraft still has a comparable monthly subscription fee. They've made up to Level 20 Free to Play, but that's really enough to get outside of a newbie zone and into the main game...
EvE online also gave in and introduced a 'free to play' mode last year.
But both games are far better suited for that, being based on accumulation of skills, equipment, wealth. AH has no such thing. I'm not sure if such a free-to-play mode could be introduced in a meaningful way without heavy changes to the gameplay. On the other hand, I do believe one major problem is not having enough targets, err, players in the MA in the first place and maybe such a mode could breathe some life into it.
:headscratch:
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With the "give some stuff in the MA for free" idea, I'd suggest early and some of the midwar stuff. Up to say, the KI61 and 109G6, P47D11, 190A5, Spit5, C202 ish levels of performance. Same with GVs. No monsters, but maybe the Panzers and similar tanks, the SDK for troops, the M16 for air. Figure out a cutoff and go with it. No perk vehicles, no ability to generate perks.
Some of those vehicles are perfectly usable in the right hands, but there is better stuff available. It would give people enough stuff to be useful and be a threat, but I think there'd be enough motivation to get the good stuff to pay.
Wiley.
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World of Warcraft still has a comparable monthly subscription fee. They've made up to Level 20 Free to Play, but that's really enough to get outside of a newbie zone and into the main game... Maybe run 1 raid. The majority of the game is not accessible as free to Play, and they still do quite well with subscriptions.
:old:
There are definitely still games that have Subs, but they're going downhill. WoW is way out of its prime as a game. It is still able to have subscribers because it was the most populated game in the world, and it was simply a breathtaking game for its time. They have some real loyalists over there. I put a bunch of money into that sub (just like aces high) because it was fantastic. But WoW is on its way out. Same with that Star Wars game several years back. They had to get rid of their subscriptions because it wasnt working anymore. But that could also be because that game was bad and it was just trying to one-up WoW, which was impossible.
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With the "give some stuff in the MA for free" idea, I'd suggest early and some of the midwar stuff. Up to say, the KI61 and 109G6, P47D11, 190A5, Spit5, C202 ish levels of performance. Same with GVs. No monsters, but maybe the Panzers and similar tanks, the SDK for troops, the M16 for air. Figure out a cutoff and go with it. No perk vehicles, no ability to generate perks.
Some of those vehicles are perfectly usable in the right hands, but there is better stuff available. It would give people enough stuff to be useful and be a threat, but I think there'd be enough motivation to get the good stuff to pay.
Wiley.
That looks like a cool lineup.. you could maybe even shrink the sample size and make it a monthly rotation.. same plabe types in mind.
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With the "give some stuff in the MA for free" idea, I'd suggest early and some of the midwar stuff. Up to say, the KI61 and 109G6, P47D11, 190A5, Spit5, C202 ish levels of performance. Same with GVs. No monsters, but maybe the Panzers and similar tanks, the SDK for troops, the M16 for air. Figure out a cutoff and go with it. No perk vehicles, no ability to generate perks.
Some of those vehicles are perfectly usable in the right hands, but there is better stuff available. It would give people enough stuff to be useful and be a threat, but I think there'd be enough motivation to get the good stuff to pay.
Wiley.
The problem I see is balancing. Once you include equipment that a vet can use with success, there is little incentive to pay 15$ for better equipment. You would have to set the equipment bar very low to make some like me to pay that much money.
Other games have simply a much different equipment/character skill progression.
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Increasing the amount of free time would not increase the number of subscribers, if a player is not hooked enough after 2 weeks to pay $15, then another 2 weeks will not get him to fork over the $15.
So that leaves the question what to do with the people who would still play, but are to cheep or cant afford the $15.
1. Opening up some free stuff to them in the main could possibly be a benefit simply to create fodder for subscribers.
2. Keeping them around long enough until they can afford AH could be a benefit.
3. Providing a non paying method to continue to play could also loose some potential new subscribers.
4. Keep them around but figure out a way to extract a lesser amount from them with out damaging the current inflow of new subscribers.
But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
HiTech
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The problem I see is balancing. Once you include equipment that a vet can use with success, there is little incentive to pay 15$ for better equipment. You would have to set the equipment bar very low to make some like me to pay that much money.
Other games have simply a much different equipment/character skill progression.
I realize that's a factor. There'd need to be some consideration of popularity. The P38J would be a bad choice for inclusion, but the G would likely be ok. Maybe the GVs would need to be limited more, maybe no troop carriers or M16. I wonder what the average player's usage actually looks like. Not the people you recognize as "38 guys" or "Loosewobble guys" or "jug guys". The average rank and file guys, do most of them stick to a couple planes, or do the majority bounce around? I know until I decided to join a LW squad I had a couple main rides but bounced around to all kinds of stuff over the course of a month. It would really bug me not to have access to them.
Wiley.
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But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
HiTech
Really hate to say it, but based on the above that guy that was on about the "polished new user experience" feelgood claptrap a few weeks ago might have a point. ;)
Wiley.
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if a player is not hooked enough after 2 weeks to pay $15, then another 2 weeks will not get him to fork over the $15.
I absolutely agree with that.
1. Opening up some free stuff to them in the main could possibly be a benefit simply to create fodder for subscribers.
Yes, absolutely :D
But also a 'living' arena is much more captivating. I mean, when I log in at euro prime, very often the country channel is near dead. No banter, no social chatter, very few alerts, no coordination attempts, no people looking for help or a squad, very little happening there at all. A few vets doing their own thing, in silence.
An hour ago I logged in and there were 9(!) players on my side. Of course, the country channel was about silent. Hard to get people hooked in such an environment.
But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
This is an important point.. but maybe it's easier to go for the remaining 25% potential customers who already show some more 'good will' by sticking around and testing the game for more than just a few minutes? (Doesn't mean the hurdles at the entry for the 75% should not be made as low as possible)
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From a different discussion thread: I'd say give them good (but not overpowering) and only give them ONE multirole plane for a fighter, one for an attacker, one bomber with ground attack options, and one tank (plus access to anything that carries troops).
P-51B (good fighter, decent, maneuverable, fast, carries bombs)
110G (bomber hunter, strafer, ground attacker with rockets/bombs)
B-25C (ground attack nose options, 3x 1k bombs good for bombing anything but not OP)
Panzer IV H (the stock tank for so many years)
Nothing more. No access to special arenas. No access to scenarios, FSOs, etc. No perk point accumulation and no squadron joining unless they subscribe.
And if HTC is doing well in the books department, dropping the full subscription to $10/month would actually pull in a lot of folks I think, based on comments in some discussion boards elsewhere and how people look at $10 vs $15.
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Increasing the amount of free time would not increase the number of subscribers, if a player is not hooked enough after 2 weeks to pay $15, then another 2 weeks will not get him to fork over the $15.
So that leaves the question what to do with the people who would still play, but are to cheep or cant afford the $15.
1. Opening up some free stuff to them in the main could possibly be a benefit simply to create fodder for subscribers.
2. Keeping them around long enough until they can afford AH could be a benefit.
3. Providing a non paying method to continue to play could also loose some potential new subscribers.
4. Keep them around but figure out a way to extract a lesser amount from them with out damaging the current inflow of new subscribers.
But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
HiTech
You're right. I only made that suggestion because those extra 2 weeks might allow the game to make a bit more of an impression on a small percentage of people during their free trial. But overall, if they arent going to sub after 2 weeks, then they probably wont after 4 weeks either.
But what about my original suggestion? Tell me its really stupid if it is, but it works in other games.
Plane skins available for 99 cents each. (League of legends, Counter Strike and Rocket League all make a fortune with this, and there is no pay to win aspect).
And more planes being worth perk points, but make perk points buy-able. There still really isnt a pay to win aspect with this either. Most of the players could easily wrack up 7-10 perks to fly a pony, or spit 16, or something like that. But I know if i were in a perk-point drought, id definitely throw in 5 bucks to be able to fly those planes. That would be easily justifiable because in that case, I wouldn't be paying a sub anymore, or that sub would be less. Otherwise I would grab a P40 or something. This would change the game (I think in a good way) so everyone wouldn't be flying the best planes all the time, but would instead have to get used to some mid-war planes to wrack up a small amount of perkies to fly the better late-war planes. And to new players, thats actually what they would expect to be the case, given that many games today are taking on this formula. All im suggesting is making perkies more valuable.
But... what do I know. Just throwing out some ideas. Thanks for your input HT, I appreciate it.
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P-51B (good fighter, decent, maneuverable, fast, carries bombs)
110G (bomber hunter, strafer, ground attacker with rockets/bombs)
B-25C (ground attack nose options, 3x 1k bombs good for bombing anything but not OP)
Panzer IV H (the stock tank for so many years)
Nothing more. No access to special arenas. No access to scenarios, FSOs, etc. No perk point accumulation and no squadron joining unless they subscribe.
To be honest, I would never ever pay any money again to HTC with a setup like that.
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From a newbie perspective it keeps you from being totally overwhelmed by subscription players (minimizes pay to win) but it also has a limited set of options and armaments. If you want more than 4x50cal on your fighter? Subscribe. If you want to carry more than 2x500lb bombs? Subscribe. Want a bomber with some tailguns? B-26s, B17s, all quite lethal..... subscribe!
The point was to pick something good but not great. Only one I'm concerned about on that list is the 110G but I think it's safe enough because of its low climb rate, turn rate, and top speeds.
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Hmm.. wonder why so few stick around. I think the interface could use some work, but that cant be all of it.
Are they having a hard time running the game on their system?
Maybe the complex mouse control was part of the problem?
Ive been here 17 years and couldnt get my tank to operate properly the other night. (Havent been on since to try HT's fix yet)
Im half tempted to wipe the game from my PC, reinstall, and see what folks are running into.
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To be honest, I would never ever pay any money again to HTC with a setup like that.
Boredom can be a powerful motivator for many though.
From a newbie perspective it keeps you from being totally overwhelmed by subscription players (minimizes pay to win) but it also has a limited set of options and armaments. If you want more than 4x50cal on your fighter? Subscribe. If you want to carry more than 2x500lb bombs? Subscribe. Want a bomber with some tailguns? B-26s, B17s, all quite lethal..... subscribe!
The point was to pick something good but not great. Only one I'm concerned about on that list is the 110G but I think it's safe enough because of its low climb rate, turn rate, and top speeds.
I'd honestly quibble more about the 51B than the 110G. Some would say the B is more of a threat at MA alts than the D.
Wiley.
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I don't see that as true. Firepower is a big factor. You can't drop a VH like you can in a fully decked out P-47D40 with 3 bombs and rockets. You can't down bombers in 1 pass with 30mm like Fw190s can. You can't do many things with 4x50cals. However, you can get kills. It just takes more work.
I'm a fan of the P-51B. I liked it way back and flew it regularly when 71sqn would do fighter sweeps. I've had some nice kill tallies in a single sortie with them. However, they are only "nice" and while they can keep up with late war planes in the MA they are not superior in any specific way. They can't turn with spitfires (have to use angles or alt), they can keep within 10-15mph deck speed with many planes but it's not the top, they don't outshoot anything but maybe the FM-2 and the Ki-43. But... if you're in one you still have hope of keeping up with the big dogs.
My only concern would be that P-51Bs can still run quite well and newbies will run... BUT that's a pro. Gives them an out as they're learning. Can still be caught by many late war planes, has terrible low-end acceleration, so in the overall balance I see it as one of the better options if you were only given one fighter to fly.
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I disagree on most points. Speaking from experience, two weeks was not enough time to get a feel for this game. Many of your paying customers have jobs, families, and other activities so the two weeks are mostly wasted because they can't play it everyday for two weeks straight. Plain and simple. That coupled with the steep learning curve and seemingly overwhelming number of planes and options takes time. I'd say for most players the two weeks averages out to a couple hours a day for 3 to 5 days.
Opening up the main arena with the ideas I posted previously would increase the numbers in the MA and allow more cannon fodder. Even if they don't buy a subscription higher numbers in the MA make the game look better, it won't look dead. No new player wants to take the risk and pay for a game that looks dead or dying.
Minimize your risk of loosing current subscribers due to opening up the MA with a free option by implementing free user restrictions like I posted above. Limit the planes, limit the radio, no perks, no voice chat, no squads, limited planes rotate and are not static, disallow country swap, limit certain airfields to no free players, etc...
I don't see how this would not increase the numbers and breath life into the MA.
If you're not interested in a small investment of time and "coading" to try and get more paying players, at least you would be making your current subscribers happy with a more target rich environment.
Increasing the amount of free time would not increase the number of subscribers, if a player is not hooked enough after 2 weeks to pay $15, then another 2 weeks will not get him to fork over the $15.
So that leaves the question what to do with the people who would still play, but are to cheep or cant afford the $15.
1. Opening up some free stuff to them in the main could possibly be a benefit simply to create fodder for subscribers.
2. Keeping them around long enough until they can afford AH could be a benefit.
3. Providing a non paying method to continue to play could also loose some potential new subscribers.
4. Keep them around but figure out a way to extract a lesser amount from them with out damaging the current inflow of new subscribers.
But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
HiTech
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Just a thought... in this hypothetical free-player-in-the-MA situation, have the server place them on the country with the lowest player count every time they log in, and they can't change sides.
Thoughts? Might hinder the forming of friendships and squadmates, though.
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Just a thought... in this hypothetical free-player-in-the-MA situation, have the server place them on the country with the lowest player count every time they log in, and they can't change sides.
Thoughts? Might hinder the forming of friendships and squadmates, though.
Great idea!
The plan for free players in the MA should be to severely limit their options while still allowing them to play. Making friends and joining squads should be a subscriber only option. I feel they should not be allowed certain radio chat channels, or voice chat options also. Let them use the help channel and country channels but not much more. The idea should still be that AH3 is a subscriber based game. It's pay to play. If your just doing the free version, you are able to fly some planes and contribute a little, but your missing the larger picture that is only obtained via a subscription.
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Maybe, one free plane, changing every month, and a high eny plane at that.
That should be plenty to keep them interested. Changing it every month would actually help the guys that were not planning on ever subscribing work through the different aircraft and become familiar with many different planes. The frustration of not being able to choose might incentivise them to subscribe especially if they "fell in love" with planeX.
I should have said one "thing" per month. Throw in buffs and GV's here and there too. Not one fighter, one buff, one GV, just one total per month.
Hehehe, I just thought of one more thing, say the monthly choice is a P51B and this thing has taken off with 100's of "free" players doing it. Might be kind of fun to fly that plane as a vet knowing you might be thought of as a "freebee newb" and then...............well...... ..you get the idea. :devil
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How about we figure out how to get those players to finish the two week trial before talking about extending the trial time?
My thought on letting players into the main arena: Why would someone subscribe after being fodder for the pros in the game? That could not be fun.
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How about we figure out how to get those players to finish the two week trial before talking about extending the trial time?
My thought on letting players into the main arena: Why would someone subscribe after being fodder for the pros in the game? That could not be fun.
Dang it, logic strikes again.
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How about we figure out how to get those players to finish the two week trial before talking about extending the trial time?
That's an interesting question. UI and tutorials look to me like a spot to start.
My thought on letting players into the main arena: Why would someone subscribe after being fodder for the pros in the game? That could not be fun.
Revenge? Of course when they find out there was more to it than the fact he had a better plane, they're back to square 1.
About all I can say to that one is, those of us who stuck around did it. You can't really help with a learning curve. Sometimes you've just got to let people fall so they learn to pick themselves up.
Wiley.
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My thought on letting players into the main arena: Why would someone subscribe after being fodder for the pros in the game? That could not be fun.
Umm isn't that what you're already doing now?
"Try the MA for two weeks... actually make that 3.5 days because of school, family, and other obligations that get in the way...because who can stop everything they are doing and dedicate themselves to the full two weeks of the trial. Then try and learn the ropes of the game and get clobbered by the pros... now give us money!"
At least if there were an unlimited free option they could take their time, push past the learning curve, get in some practice, maybe even some pro kills... then decide to pay.
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Umm isn't that what you're already doing now?
"Try the MA for two weeks... actually make that 3.5 days because of school, family, and other obligations that get in the way...because who can stop everything they are doing and dedicate themselves to the full two weeks of the trial. Then try and learn the ropes of the game and get clobbered by the pros... now give us money!"
At least if there were an unlimited free option they could take their time, push past the learning curve, get in some practice, maybe even some pro kills... then decide to pay.
Again, they are not finishing the two week trial. They are not making it passed 30 minutes.
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Again, they are not finishing the two week trial. They are not making it passed 30 minutes.
Because you have already built a wall in front of them. A two week window to attempt to learn the game, then pay up.
Look at some of the player base that may be considering this game.... War Thunder and World of Planes/Tanks players. They are used to an easy to pick up, quick action game.
As we all know, Aces High is not a quick to learn, easy to master game. It takes time to learn and develop your skill in this game.
They jump in and realize that this game is going to take some time and investment but they see that wall looming at the end of two weeks and think, "meh"
Remove the wall, let them take as much time as they need or want in a free and very limited version of the MA.
I know they have the option currently to make their own arena, or jump into practice, but there is no fun in that because there are no targets, no AI to play against.
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I know they have the option currently to make their own arena, or jump into practice, but there is no fun in that because there are no targets, no AI to play against.
There is a free mission arena with continual running AI.
HiTech
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AV, the statistic that 75% of players dont last 30 minutes is quite dramatic. More dramatic then a 2 week experience wall. Is there something fundamentally flawed with HTC's approach in welcoming players or is it just that unfair that people cant stand it?
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Because you have already built a wall in front of them. A two week window to attempt to learn the game, then pay up.
Look at some of the player base that may be considering this game.... War Thunder and World of Planes/Tanks players. They are used to an easy to pick up, quick action game.
As we all know, Aces High is not a quick to learn, easy to master game. It takes time to learn and develop your skill in this game.
They jump in and realize that this game is going to take some time and investment but they see that wall looming at the end of two weeks and think, "meh"
+1. But if they arent making it past the first 30 minutes, there may be more here to think about. Even unlocking a small portion of the game for free might not make them stay, as the two week trial allows you to play the entire game for that time. Maybe, as I stated before, expanding the 2 weeks to a month may help some people get hooked, but who knows.
So how do you get more people to stay past the first 30 minutes of gameplay? Access to more, practical training info? Closer bases, so as to make action more accessible? Pay me as a personal trainer so I can help newbies get off the ground and explain the game? :cool: :confused: :devil
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There is a free mission arena with continual running AI.
Well, that's it then. I guess you have already thought of everything there is to try.
Just keep it as it is.
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I still say some offline AI training missions, with possible achievements/perk bonuses for completing would go a long way towards introducing newbies to controls, chat, etc. and give them some incentive for doing so. Many new games have these sorts of training missions to help get people into the game more than into a meat grinder.
It's nice to say there's a TA, but that takes actually joining the forums, setting up times/dates with someone willing to train, and in the long run, requires more investment into the community than simply upping and getting shot down.
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Well, that's it then. I guess you have already thought of everything there is to try.
Just keep it as it is.
I am simply pointing out a thing I believed you did not know which invalidated some of your argument.
HiTech
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What kind of interface are the people who don't last 30 minutes using?
If I was to vote for a plane to give away it wouldn't be a mid war plane but a late war plane but just one and with whatever the worst gun package and no ord. A new player has to experience some performance and longevity to want to bother keeping on IMO.
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What kind of interface are the people who don't last 30 minutes using?
If I was to vote for a plane to give away it wouldn't be a mid war plane but a late war plane but just one and with whatever the worst gun package and no ord. A new player has to experience some performance and longevity to want to bother keeping on IMO.
I agree. Throwing them in for free, but with the more difficult models to fly would not help them want to stay. A new player is not going to be super effective in any plane you give them right off the bat, so why not give them one of the better ones so that they have a genuine feel for the game (after all, thats likely what they will end up flying anyway once they subscribe.)
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How about ride-a-longs?
Instead of "requesting" permission to jump in someone else plane, set it up with 3 options/check boxes.
"Ride along in a fighter"
"Ride a long in a bomber"
"Ride along in a vehicle"
Click on one of the options and the game drops you into a random players plane that is in the "action" area of the map.
The ride a long doesnt add any penalty so jumping in isnt going to hurt the players giving the ride along. If it is only allowable to 2 weeks.... err 4 weekers :noid it shouldnt be used to grief the player giving the ride a long.
This will show a new player more of the "action".
With the new videos the "radio" one should be repeated often and only a dot command in the radio bar can turn it off... insuring the new player knows how to use the radio to clear it.
The "free" set of planes in the MA is a big plus. Knowing that they are free indefinitely may take the pressure off and allow the new players to relax as they step into the deep end.
Maybe add a count of "AI" players in the "missions arena" on the login screen. "15 enemy AI, 5 friendly AI, in 5 missions going on right now!" As a scrolling message to attract attention to that arena.
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How about ride-a-longs?
Instead of "requesting" permission to jump in someone else plane, set it up with 3 options/check boxes.
"Ride along in a fighter"
"Ride a long in a bomber"
"Ride along in a vehicle"
Click on one of the options and the game drops you into a random players plane that is in the "action" area of the map.
The ride a long doesnt add any penalty so jumping in isnt going to hurt the players giving the ride along. If it is only allowable to 2 weeks.... err 4 weekers :noid it shouldnt be used to grief the player giving the ride a long.
This will show a new player more of the "action".
With the new videos the "radio" one should be repeated often and only a dot command in the radio bar can turn it off... insuring the new player knows how to use the radio to clear it.
+1. Anything to give them a genuine feel of the game. It would help them and encourage them to see what instant action looks like.
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AV, the statistic that 75% of players dont last 30 minutes is quite dramatic. More dramatic then a 2 week experience wall.
I suspect that, because the current crop of new pilots is generally younger than the bunch that made AW and AH originally successful, we can’t hope to keep even a smaller fraction of people who come test the game. That’s fine, given enough exposure we don’t need to keep a large percentage in order to keep things pleasant here. But I’ve often thought that two weeks is not enough time to grasp the fundamentals of this game. Avman’s example is accurate for many people: If you have a day job, by the time you get the controls set up and figure out what controls are necessary to do some basic flying, you could be well through the two-week period.
Of course HTC has made it possible to do all this in the free arenas, and there are online resources that explain all things (if you can find them) - but not all new people will stop to analyze this before they sign up. And until they’re exposed to the MA, they probably aren’t going to find AH terribly interesting.
Once again, I think that a four-week intro period, coupled with a basic, easily found handbook (even AW had this), would go a long way to retaining the very small group of people who are likely to be retainable. The handbook is a time investment by HTC, made more difficult by the fact that the game details are constantly changing, but I think it’s essential. And the additional two free weeks...what’s the harm?
- oldman
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If the handbook were phrased and composed such that it talked about the physics of things (in easy to understand terms) then it would last across many many different game updates and versions. I think there is something that could be put together with a pretty long lifespan that wouldn't have to be updated ever, if at all.
I think that would be a good idea. The question is: How do you organize it? How do you present it? What's the best way to make a handbook like that to answer a beginner's questions and get them into the fight faster?
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Again, they are not finishing the two week trial. They are not making it passed 30 minutes.
When Steam was first enabled, it was common to see a new callsign sitting in the hangar for 10 minutes, occasionally firing guns, then disappear forever. Or, if they did get off the ground they would fly 10 seconds and auger. I'd try to help them by text or vox, but get no reply.
Don't know what kind of coading effort it would be, but how about automatic contextual help for a first time player:
First time in the tower: "Click Hangar to select aircraft/vehicle"
After selecting aircraft: "Click runway heading -- N S E W -- to launch on runway"
On the runway: "Press E key to start engine"
etc, etc,
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What brought us all to AH is living a dream and or interest WW2 aerial and tank combat.
What that simply means is if the new player has not got a least some interest in WW2, they will not be a player for long.
That suggest the key to improving player acquisition is to implant that dream and or interest into a new player's head before they ever sign in for the two week trial.
Dramatic video's with taunting sounds is about the only way I know of that might work.
HTC was their a bump up in members when a WW2 movie came out like Memphis Belle?
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HTC was their a bump up in members when a WW2 movie came out like Memphis Belle?
I doubt it if it did not have an AH advertisement. If you have never heard of the game you will never know where to go.
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I made the suggestion that a training mission would launch when the game is first played. It would reflect the users control suite (or lack thereof) and would walk them through the quick basics of the game. Something like this;
(screen opens to a Spitfire in level flight in autopilot)
"Welcome cadet! You have entered the world of Aces High! I'd like to walk you through the controls for the game, communication tools, and some flight maneuvers. If at any time you wish to leave this tutorial, hit escape and click 'end flight' to return to the main menu"
(voice narrators informs, encourages new pilot to take controls eventually)
Towards the end, you enter a simple mock dogfight with other Spitfires in the formation. At the end, have a very dumb AI 109 show up and bounce the formation and gradually increase in difficulty.
If the new player does not feel that rush of shooting something down quickly, they will not stay long. I think it was the Red Baron that said (paraphrasing) it is best that a new pilot gets their first kill easily or the lack of success will plague them.
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If the handbook were phrased and composed such that it talked about the physics of things (in easy to understand terms) then it would last across many many different game updates and versions. I think there is something that could be put together with a pretty long lifespan that wouldn't have to be updated ever, if at all.
I think that would be a good idea. The question is: How do you organize it? How do you present it? What's the best way to make a handbook like that to answer a beginner's questions and get them into the fight faster?
A while ago I prototyped something like that based on the Pilot's Information Handbook, a copy of which is laying on the table behind you in AH's tower. I used a Javascript library which allowed you to create a book cover and page content that turns just like real pages. I tried to keep the style of it in the same theme as the actual real-life PIF. If you click the image on the page it opens up a new webpage with the prototype.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,389480.msg5174982.html#msg5174982 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,389480.msg5174982.html#msg5174982)
I'm just not sure the next generation is very handbook oriented. I think an In-game scripted tutorial like Del proposed might work better. The YouTube training videos were a good try but after a few times I turned them off and now I don't know how to re-activate them.
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I'm just not sure the next generation is very handbook oriented. I think an In-game scripted tutorial like Del proposed might work better. The YouTube training videos were a good try but after a few times I turned them off and now I don't know how to re-activate them.
I like you booklet idea and it is much easier to implement than a tutorial AI sequence I think, though that would be cool too. I remember trying something similar years ago for my then FSO sqd, though not a game manual. It would be great, but there is a lot of info to transfer over and the font would need to be made a little larger in my opinion. Instructions should be large and easily read by all, but they first must be easily found to effective, and they still aren't at present.
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I like this idea too.
Maybe have the instruction booklet sitting right on the desk in the tower.
Coogan
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I printed up a copy of in pursuit when I first started playing here to try and understand why it seemed like everyone always had more E than me and could out turn me. It was very helpful for beginner SA and ACM. The rest comes with practice. I think that did more for me than knowing all the buttons.
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Increasing the amount of free time would not increase the number of subscribers, if a player is not hooked enough after 2 weeks to pay $15, then another 2 weeks will not get him to fork over the $15.
But remember 75% of potential customers are gone after 30 minutes. Nothing posted above would have much effect on those people.
HiTech
I know that for me the very first turn off to this game was "No Instructions" at all when I logged on in 2008. It took me a few days before someone would tell me to go to Netaces to look for the Quick Reference Guide. Another website altogether. I eventually did find it on HT main pages, but as with so much of the training stuff it was buried, worse than now, but it is still not easy to find that simple document that would have allowed me to figure out the basics on my own. I was ready to quit too. I am not even sure why I kept logging in and out when I couldn't play the game except I finally found someone in the TA who would answer a question. I guess I am a little more persistent than young kids, but it was a close thing. That document should be in big red, bold, blinking lights for immediate download if you're not going to include it in the download of the game. Just my pennies. Other issue I have seen is little advertising. Most people in other flight sims have not heard of AH when I tell them that's where I used to fly, but they know DCS, War thunder or whatever and even IL2. I know it costs money, but if no one hears about it they will never check it out. You have to give the youngsters like my son bright colors and loud noises, so lots of things blowing up will gain their interest faster than pretty planes. Okay, my change is running out, so one last thing. I think I have seen 1 or 2 commercials on TV when I lived in Vegas and a couple internet advertisements recently because I am always looking up flight sim stuff. I'd like to see it a lot more.
There is only one thing I know Sir, is there are a lot of people who want to see you guys do well, That's the gist of these topics coming up so much. Everyone else feels the pressure too and are throwing ideas around hoping a solution can be found so you have lots of players and the players have lots of players.
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Actually, based on recent events, I don't think I do care anymore. Probably my last post on here. Have fun. To any who I knew, be well.
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Three simple changes to the clip board when you are first popped into the tower looking at the first button level screen.
1. - Add a button "Keyboard Commands". When you click on it up comes the key mapping menu. Anyone who does not RTFM still looks at the key map as the simplest way to get a game going. While in the air or driving around, keep a quick popup version of this so they can easily get at the current key commands. Even make a "Hot Key" toggle so they can pop it up as some kind of a HUD reference, then toggle it off without needing the clipboard up.
2. - Add a button "Game Controllers". It's obvious and you don't force short attention span kids and gamers to hunt. Doesn't matter if it's redundant, matters that you don't make them hunt for what is paramount to playing a game like this.
3. - Add a button "Graphics Settings". This and the two others are the heart of any video game to get started from scratch with no interest in RTFM.
The next most important is already there, "Hanger", or they really won't stay around for more than a minute trying to look at the rides. The current menu system is for "Adults" who are curious, read, and maybe have worked with Unix or vocations that required learning nested menu navigation. Our menu reminds me of every ERP application I had to slog through its unintuitive nested menus. Games should not put you through that if the game is supposed to be fun and intuitive to learn. If you need it to get on the runway the very first time, put it on the first page of the clipboard like is that important.