Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Vraciu on January 13, 2018, 04:17:49 PM
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I've been getting some mini-stutters lately and was wondering if it is just time to get a new desktop. I'm maxed out on RAM. Originally things ran great on AH3. Just thinking out loud. Fresh install of Win7??? 6GB vid card???
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System Information
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Time of this report: 1/13/2018, 16:15:24
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.170913-0600)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: LENOVO
System Model: H215
BIOS: LENOVO BIOS Rev: 1.0
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
Page File: 2822MB used, 5363MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
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DirectX Debug Levels
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Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
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Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1C02&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_A1
Display Memory: 672 MB
Dedicated Memory: 2977 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: VX238
Monitor Id: ACI23C1
Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: HDMI
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Vraciu, is your DXDIAG report from a fresh boot up of your computer?
If not, you should redo it and take your DXDIAG report after a fresh boot....
You posted that AH originally was performing great, but now you are experiencing some mini stuttering
Your Windows 7 OS 64bit pagefile used is extremely high
For a Windows 7 OS it should be between 170+ MB's to 300 MB's used.... You currently are showing roughly 2,500+ MB's too much
Your processes should be between 34 to no more than 52 Max.....
Going from what your DXDIAG report is showing and what you have described, it sounds like you most likely have a bunch of resources running in the background
Try checking out www.blackviper.com to find out how to go about cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS
Hope this helps
TC
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Helps a lot. I will try it.
Let me run the fresh boot dxdiag...
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that 2822MB memory use is virtual memory use, physical memory + pagefile, not pagefile alone. (common misconception and/or misleading terms used by M$)
Please attach the full dxdiag report so we may see space issues on HDDs etc.
Memory is indeed not much nowadays but CPU may be more of a limiting factor.
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Denniss, just checking, but are you saying that I am or have misconceptualized what his DXDIAG report is showing regarding "pagefile used, pagefile available"
What suggestions and/or advice do you recommend Vraciu try to figure out what might be causing his recent mini-stuttering, after he reported that AH3 was working great....
What is your reasoning for suggesting that the CPU may be more of a limiting factor? Is it because it is an AMD? or because it is just a dual-core AMD CPU?
His AMD Athlon II x2 250 3.0 GHz dual-core CPU is sufficient for AH3, with it being dual-core and 3.0 GHz....the only thing that might hurt him regarding his CPU, is if he let the recent KB4056894 update install, which is known to have ill effects on older AMD CPUs and components.....
Going back to the pagefile issue.... pagefile used/pagefile available work differently going from
Win98, WinXP , Vista, Win 7, Win 8, Win 10..... processes / resources and pagefile give/show more immediate tell-tell signs in Windows 7(Windows 8) and older OSes than they do for Windows 10
Knowing what kind of HardDrives and their size including space used verses available can be helpful, I don't see it being a critical piece of information needed
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Vraciu, I would recommend starting to save money for a new Computer, since you mentioned that your current PC rig is already maxed out at 4 GB system ram....although Windows 7 64bit will run/work using only 4 GB, your OS is limited in what it can achieve.....not knowing your PC rig personally, there is a possibility that being limited to just 4 GB system ram could possibly be one of the benefiting factors towards helping the micro-stutters showing up....
Hope my posts have been helpful
TC
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that 2822MB memory use is virtual memory use, physical memory + pagefile, not pagefile alone. (common misconception and/or misleading terms used by M$)
Please attach the full dxdiag report so we may see space issues on HDDs etc.
Memory is indeed not much nowadays but CPU may be more of a limiting factor.
That is not correct at all.
Here is my DXDIAG.
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System Information
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Time of this report: 1/14/2018, 06:44:17
Machine name: BOB
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 08/13/13 19:28:07 Ver: 21.04
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16328MB RAM
Page File: 302MB used, 31024MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode
16GB of system RAM, 4) 32GB swap files, with only 302MB being used. Physical memory used, at the time of the report was right at 2GB.
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pagefile report in dxdiag is always (and has always been) virtual memory use.
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pagefile report in dxdiag is always (and has always been) virtual memory use.
If that is what you think, then why does Windows OSes use the hard drive (or give an individual) the choice to either let Windows maintain the pagefile, or let the individual have the option to use no pagefile or assign a specific Hard Drive or specific partition and set the pagefile to a specific area as well as specified size to the Hard Drive/partition of choice?
Just curious
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If that is what you think, then why does Windows OSes use the hard drive (or give an individual) the choice to either let Windows maintain the pagefile, or let the individual have the option to use no pagefile or assign a specific Hard Drive or specific partition and set the pagefile to a specific area as well as specified size to the Hard Drive/partition of choice?
Just curious
Just some side advice: Don't mess with the page file in the latest versions of windows. Always leave it on auto. Games will crash if you set it too small.
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TC, yes you've been a help. Thank you (and everyone else as well). I'm considering just getting another MB/CPU and some RAM from TigerDirect and swapping this one out. I used to build computers so I still remember how. Just need to be sure the thing will fit in this case and that Windows 7 won't have a heart attack over it.
How much of the DXDiag do you guys want to see?
I do wonder if there is something running in the background that is due to a virus or something similar. Need to probably fix that before I swap components.
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System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 1/14/2018, 12:17:17
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.170913-0600)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: LENOVO
System Model: H215
BIOS: LENOVO BIOS Rev: 1.0
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
Page File: 2084MB used, 6101MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1C02&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_A1
Display Memory: 4095 MB
Dedicated Memory: 2977 MB
Shared Memory: 1118 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: VX238
Monitor Id: ACI23C1
Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: HDMI
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 23.21.0013.9065 (English)
Driver Version: 23.21.13.9065
DDI Version: 11
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 1/3/2018 19:39:57, 18730328 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5F42-11CF-D940-0D201BC2DA35}
Vendor ID: 0x10DE
Device ID: 0x1C02
SubSys ID: 0x00000000
Revision ID: 0x00A1
Driver Strong Name: oem38.inf:NVIDIA_Devices.NTamd64.6.1:Section147:23.21.13.9065:pci\ven_10de&dev_1c02
Rank Of Driver: 00E60003
Video Accel:
Deinterlace Caps: {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{F9F19DA5-3B09-4B2F-9D89-C64753E3EAAB}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
{5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
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{6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
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<MUNCHED>
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D3D9 Overlay: Supported
DXVA-HD: Supported
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
Description: VX238 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10DE&DEV_0084&SUBSYS_19DA2438&REV_1001
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: nvhda64v.sys
Driver Version: 1.03.0036.0006 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Date and Size: 1/3/2018 19:39:57, 226760 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: NVIDIA Corporation
HW Accel Level: Basic
Cap Flags: 0xF1F
Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
HW Memory: 0
Voice Management: No
EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
Description: Microphone (5- USB Audio Device)
Default Sound Capture: Yes
Default Voice Capture: Yes
Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys
Driver Version: 6.01.7601.18208 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 7/12/2013 04:40:58, 109824 bytes
Cap Flags: 0x1
Format Flags: 0xFFFFF
-------------------
DirectInput Devices
-------------------
Device Name: Mouse
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a
Device Name: Keyboard
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a
Device Name: SideWinder Precision 2 Joystick
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x0038
FF Driver: n/a
Device Name: Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x00DD
FF Driver: n/a
Poll w/ Interrupt: No
-----------
USB Devices
-----------
+ USB Root Hub
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x1002, 0x4398
| Matching Device ID: usb\root_hub
| Service: usbhub
----------------
Gameport Devices
----------------
------------
PS/2 Devices
------------
+ HID Keyboard Device
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x00DD
| Matching Device ID: hid_device_system_keyboard
| Service: kbdhid
|
+ Terminal Server Keyboard Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_kbd
| Upper Filters: kbdclass
| Service: TermDD
|
+ Logitech USB Wheel Mouse
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC00E
| Matching Device ID: hid\vid_046d&pid_c00e
| Service: mouhid
|
+ Terminal Server Mouse Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_mou
| Upper Filters: mouclass
| Service: TermDD
------------------------
Disk & DVD/CD-ROM Drives
------------------------
Drive: B:
Free Space: 301.0 GB
Total Space: 953.9 GB
File System: NTFS
Model: Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device
Drive: C:
Free Space: 377.7 GB
Total Space: 928.1 GB
File System: NTFS
Model: Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device
Drive: D:
Model: TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653G ATA Device
Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\cdrom.sys, 6.01.7601.17514 (English), , 0 bytes
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AAlK, I'm assuming you didn't mean to quote my post and direct your "side advice" towards me,
but actually meant to post your side advice for the AH community....
I would recommend anyone who is unfamiliar with the pagefile and how it works to leave it alone and let Windows maintain it!
If you want to learn how to clean up your Windows OS and tweak it for better performance, do your homework and research studying on what items do what, etc....
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I do wonder if there is something running in the background...
When was the last time you got Windows Updates? You can find that in (Control Panel)/Windows Update>Update history. If that hasn't happened for months, check your TaskManager, Processes tab sorted by CPU usage. If there's a svchost.exe continuously taking the power of one single core, right click it and choose Go to Service(s). If that shows wuauserv/Windows Update, you've found an issue.
If the above is what's hogging your resources, there's only one true cure I've found so far during the couple of years it has been plaguing Win7 systems: Make sure your Power Management scheme is set to Best Performance and let your computer run until the missing updates have arrived. It will take a couple of days. When the shield icon appears over the Shutdown button in the Start Menu, you can shut down your computer.
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Vraciu, are you using the Sound capability of your 1060 VC? and if so have you disabled your onboard sound driver?
You are showing 2 identical Hard Drives for Drive C: and Drive B: and they both are close to having the same amount of free space.....are you using Raid "0" (mirroring) by any chance? Just curious
It also is possible to be getting micro-stutters from using that usbaudio.sys driver, possibly
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Vraciu, are you using the Sound capability of your 1060 VC? and if so have you disabled your onboard sound driver?
You are showing 2 identical Hard Drives for Drive C: and Drive B: and they both are close to having the same amount of free space.....are you using Raid "0" (mirroring) by any chance? Just curious
It also is possible to be getting micro-stutters from using that usbaudio.sys driver, possibly
Onboard sound, yes.
RAID, no.
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Could I step up the CPU from what's in it? Even a small boost may be worth the cost. Otherwise I could just replace the entire mainboard.
AMD Phenom II X4 965 is said to be compatible with this board and BIOS.
https://www.ebay.com/p/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-965-3-4GHz-Quad-Core-HDZ965FBK4DGM-Processor/79634429
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Could I step up the CPU from what's in it? Even a small boost may be worth the cost. Otherwise I could just replace the entire mainboard.
AMD Phenom II X4 965 is said to be compatible with this board and BIOS.
https://www.ebay.com/p/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-965-3-4GHz-Quad-Core-HDZ965FBK4DGM-Processor/79634429
Vraciu, it is not worth it to upgrade your CPU, even though you would be going from a 3.0 GHz dual-core CPU to a 3.4 GHz quad-core CPU, you will not gain hardly any boost at all.....you will still be using the same limitation of 4 GB system ram....
The best you can do with your current system is clean up and tweak your Windows 7 OS, make sure that you are not causing yourself any conflict with multiple audio drivers enabled
Disable the Nvidia Audio driver on your Video card, if you are not using it since you have onboard integrated sound...and if you possibly can try to use a 3.5mm analog mic and 3.5mm adapter/plug speakers or headphones..... This will free up resources/processes by not using the USB audio.....
I'll send you a pm later when I get home, with some ideas for picking a MB/CPU/Memory, that you can use the rest of your existing system with....along with some other options
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AAlK, I'm assuming you didn't mean to quote my post and direct your "side advice" towards me,
but actually meant to post your side advice for the AH community....
I would recommend anyone who is unfamiliar with the pagefile and how it works to leave it alone and let Windows maintain it!
If you want to learn how to clean up your Windows OS and tweak it for better performance, do your homework and research studying on what items do what, etc....
Something like that.
Dont touch the page file people!
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Vraciu, it is not worth it to upgrade your CPU, even though you would be going from a 3.0 GHz dual-core CPU to a 3.4 GHz quad-core CPU, you will not gain hardly any boost at all.....you will still be using the same limitation of 4 GB system ram....
The best you can do with your current system is clean up and tweak your Windows 7 OS, make sure that you are not causing yourself any conflict with multiple audio drivers enabled
Disable the Nvidia Audio driver on your Video card, if you are not using it since you have onboard integrated sound...and if you possibly can try to use a 3.5mm analog mic and 3.5mm adapter/plug speakers or headphones..... This will free up resources/processes by not using the USB audio.....
I'll send you a pm later when I get home, with some ideas for picking a MB/CPU/Memory, that you can use the rest of your existing system with....along with some other options
Done. Thanks. (Would it be better to disable the onboard and go with the NVidea or is it a wash?)
I will look at a whole new MB and RAM then. That sounds like the right move.
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Could I step up the CPU from what's in it? Even a small boost may be worth the cost. Otherwise I could just replace the entire mainboard.
AMD Phenom II X4 965 is said to be compatible with this board and BIOS.
https://www.ebay.com/p/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-965-3-4GHz-Quad-Core-HDZ965FBK4DGM-Processor/79634429
Hi Vraciu,
Just asking..........
When you say you're maxed out on mem, do you mean that your current mobo's total memory module capacity is maxed out at 4Gb?
If this is so then I would suggest to just gather your funds and pick up a CPU, mobo & mem combo as a minimum to get you up to speed. Doesn't need to be the latest, greatest stuff that's out currently, just a setup that has a 4-core CPU at minimum, mobo that can accept the CPU and more than 4Gb mem and is dual channel compliant (most will accept at least 8Gb-16Gb) @ DDR3 1600 (the sweet spot) and the mem modules (2 x 4Gb mem modules minimum for dual channel operation). Either Intel or AMD will suffice. You can find some good cheap deals on some still very good and powerful equipment.................
If your existing mobo can accept more mem capacity >4Gb (8Gb would be a good place to land at a minimum) then I would suggest to up the mem to 8Gb then look at the CPU upgrade you've listed as Win 7 can use the 2 extra CPU cores as well as any other apps to perform better. Lowest cost option............
As w\ any computer upgrade, 1st make sure that you have ample PSU power capacity from your existing PSU to handle any upgrades or plan to include a PSU upgrade along w\ the rest.
To test your box to see if it is making excessive page outs from system mem to virtual mem (using the page file) you can set up the Win 7 Performance Monitor to monitor this aspect of your box, then minimize it and run the game w\ it running in the background then check the results.......this will show you if your box is actually writing data from system mem to the page file while playing the game and how much it is doing it (shown in %). Just because Windows shows that your page file usage is that high, it may not be actually using that much of it while the game is actually running. With this said, the 4Gb amount of system mem you have currently onboard will most likely show thru the Performance Monitor that your box is actually paging out data to the page file on your HDD\SSD while running the game............ How much page out data traffic is going on will be the question as it takes CPU cycles\resources to do this which will take away from the CPU cycles needed to run the game..........
This is not the Win 7 Resource Monitor that is found in the Task Manager, this monitor is found thru the Control Panel, System and Security, Administrative Tools and can be set up to monitor just about any aspect of your computer's operation so it is a good tool for us consumers to use to TS computer performance issues yourself.
Hope this can help you out.
:salute
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Vraciu,
I’m curious, when you are playing how much video memory are you using?
You may have already stated this and I have just overlooked it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Pudgie: My motherboard won't run more than 4GB based on what I am reading about it on Lenovo's site. That's why I was thinking of taking the leap to something that will handle more--unless there is a BIOS update I am unaware of.
My PSU is a pretty big one since I upgraded it to be certain my 1060 would have enough.
Will take a look at the Resource Monitor. :salute
Ciaphas: Video Memory is around 698MB up to 758MB or so on a 3GB card. FPS varies from 51 to 60 even just sitting in the tower.
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The system seems to use two identical 1TB HDDs, drive C looks like the originally installed drive which may have a hidden recovery partition.
For a long time I have never seen one using B as drive letter for a HDD, this was previously used for (limited to?) Floppy drives.
I would not even try to use a Phenom II X4 965 in this OEM system as its a 140/125W CPU vs the original 65W CPU. Unlikely to work.
With two HDDs available it's often best for performance to place the swap-/pagefile on the non-OS drive, specifying Min/Max size as the same value (1024 should be sufficient, if not disable, reboot, then increase to 2048). Min/Max at same size is required to have one big file instead of multiple fragments all over the HDD. Regardless where the swapfile is located on, it alway has an impact on performance, it's best placed on a SSD or replaced by more RAM.
The Lenovo H215 computer system seems to be based on an AMD760 chipset motherboard with two DDR3 RAM slots. It should be possible to use 2x 4 GiB memory sticks, 2x 8 GiB may/should work too ut will be overkill.
@ TequilaChaser: Windoze handles all memory (physical and emulation) in a virtual memory system, what one knows as pagefile or swapfile is the memory emulation on a physical drive. The pagefile section in dxdiag reports the whole virtual memory system, depeding on system setting is either only physical or physical + emulation via swapfile(s).
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I use B: for "Backup" -- been doing that for a decade or more. It only runs when I copy and paste my files over (documents, skins, etc.). I try to minimize the wear on the bearings just in case C: goes kablooey.
No recovery partition on C: as this is an "upgrade" from Windows 8 back to Windows 7--fresh install.
Swap file location is a good idea.
So....why does Lenovo say it can only handle 4GB of RAM? What am I missing? https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-h215-0893-athlon-ii-x2-215-2-7-ghz-series/specs/
I mentioned that CPU because I read somewhere that it worked without problems as a drop-in replacement. I will have to do more thorough research on that one I guess.
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Vraciu
You have the H215 model Lenovo correct? (oem# 08931DU)
You have (2) DIMM slots that can hold a Max of (2) 2 GB DIMMs
Your system most likely came originally with a 180 watt PSU (made by Lite-On)...you must have upgraded it when you upgraded your GPU to that Nvidia 1060 3 GB graphics card
I suggest you upgrade your MB/CPU/Memory and depending on what MB you decide on, you may need a larger PC case, that Lenovo H215 model case is very small
No need to even talk about pagefiles and swapfiles and their locations to be put in this thread
I just know that with what your DXDIAG report was showing, that there might be a good chance of finding and fixing your recently developed micro-stutters..... Not sure why trying to help you got hijacked on some pagefiles this/that rant
If I can be of any more help, let me know
PM me for my number, I will take time to help walk you through cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS, if you want me to
Hope this is helpful
TC
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Their are several options for the Lenovo H215 model
Most common chipsets was North Bridge: AMD 780G and SB 700
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@ TequilaChaser: Windoze handles all memory (physical and emulation) in a virtual memory system, what one knows as pagefile or swapfile is the memory emulation on a physical drive. The pagefile section in dxdiag reports the whole virtual memory system, depeding on system setting is either only physical or physical + emulation via swapfile(s).
You gave me a chuckle, much appreciated, cheers
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If that is what you think, then why does Windows OSes use the hard drive (or give an individual) the choice to either let Windows maintain the pagefile, or let the individual have the option to use no pagefile or assign a specific Hard Drive or specific partition and set the pagefile to a specific area as well as specified size to the Hard Drive/partition of choice?
Just curious
Pushing the Limits of Windows: Virtual Memory - by Mark Russinovich (https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/11/17/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/)
So...
Ideal pagefile size = maximum total commit charge - RAM
If value is negative, set pagefile size to whatever is the size of your configured crash dump
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Vraciu
You have the H215 model Lenovo correct? (oem# 08931DU)
You have (2) DIMM slots that can hold a Max of (2) 2 GB DIMMs
Your system most likely came originally with a 180 watt PSU (made by Lite-On)...you must have upgraded it when you upgraded your GPU to that Nvidia 1060 3 GB graphics card
I suggest you upgrade your MB/CPU/Memory and depending on what MB you decide on, you may need a larger PC case, that Lenovo H215 model case is very small
No need to even talk about pagefiles and swapfiles and their locations to be put in this thread
I just know that with what your DXDIAG report was showing, that there might be a good chance of finding and fixing your recently developed micro-stutters..... Not sure why trying to help you got hijacked on some pagefiles this/that rant
If I can be of any more help, let me know
PM me for my number, I will take time to help walk you through cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS, if you want me to
Hope this is helpful
TC
Correct, with upgraded PS. I keep reading "Max Supported RAM: 4GB" for the 215's motherboard. I also read that more RAM isn't going to help me "because games are designed to run on 3GB" or some such.
I don't mind spending some money, I just don't need to go terribly overboard. The only demanding thing I do on this computer is play AH3. In fact, if I didn't play AH3 I would be Linux-only, something even my ancient computers handle pretty well.
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I don't know if this helps but I went and worked with the in-game graphics options... The biggest impact on the microfreezes is GROUND DETAIL RANGE. With the range low everything is smooth. As I move it toward the mid-range it starts to happen again. Does this tell us anything?
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Vraciu, it's your call.
Your MOBO will not support anything larger than 4GB RAM.
Build your own Rig. (I know you've heard that a hundred times.) It's worth it..
:rock Hook it up bro. :cheers:
Coogan
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Vraciu, did you notice my question about Windows Update (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391358.msg5197462.html#msg5197462) on page 1? In a dual core system like yours the issue takes 50% of CPU, constantly, until it's fixed.
I noticed a remarkable difference between 4 and 8 GB on my system, DualCore and Windows7 as well.
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pagefile report in dxdiag is always (and has always been) virtual memory use.
Yes, that is true, but you said the "Page File" value was as follows, physical memory + pagefile, not pagefile alone. which is not accurate. Or you did not correctly describe your intent.
Just some side advice: Don't mess with the page file in the latest versions of windows. Always leave it on auto. Games will crash if you set it too small.
Creating a fixed size page file always improves performance as it keeps the page file from being broken up and spread all over the file system. It also helps by reducing the fragmentation of the file system.
The trick is to use twice the system RAM space for the page file. If you run out of page file space then your computer needs more physical RAM. I place a page file on each drive. Some will say it is overkill and it probably is, but Windows 7 uses the page file on the last selected hard drive, if available.
Moving the page file off drive the boot drive, is also a good idea.
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Twice the system RAM for swapfile file is often too large unless you have a system with tiny amounts of RAM (2-4GB). To really get an existing swapfile in one large file you have to disable it first, reboot and then set it to desired size (Min = Max size), not required for a freshly set up swapfile on a new drive.
One should not set the swapfile on a second partition of your main HDD .
The problem with the swapfile nowadays is permanent usage, on Win9x it could be converted to be used if physical RAM was almost filled. That's why I prefer more RAM over having any fomr of swapfile. And if some strange programs needs one it's either moved to a virtual machine or a rather small swapfile is placed on a SSD.
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Twice the size is large. It is overkill, but it costs nothing more that some drive space and it guarantees never to be too little. Important when using a fixed swap file size.
In my person computer, I have seen swap usage upwards to 20GB while having 10GB of free system RAM due to how aggressive Windows had gotten about paging out data not being used. Not uncommon when editing large video projects.
Note: Windows 10 introduced compression into the system RAM space. This has changed how swap space is being used.
The system will reboot when you want to create a fixed size swap file as the fixed size swap file requires contiguous disk space. Yes, it is best to set that up when you install the operating system. If that is not an option, then removing extraneous files, and defragging the drive is the next best option before creating a fixed swap file.
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Where do I set this?
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Vraciu, it's your call.
Your MOBO will not support anything larger than 4GB RAM.
Build your own Rig. (I know you've heard that a hundred times.) It's worth it..
:rock Hook it up bro. :cheers:
Coogan
I’ve done it before. Just need to figure out what to get.
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Vraciu, did you notice my question about Windows Update (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391358.msg5197462.html#msg5197462) on page 1? In a dual core system like yours the issue takes 50% of CPU, constantly, until it's fixed.
I noticed a remarkable difference between 4 and 8 GB on my system, DualCore and Windows7 as well.
No, I missed it. (Or else it didn’t register.) Let me go back and read it.
Edit in: Got it. Let me go look. I ran an update yesterday, fwiw. It says everything is current.
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Thought so, there's been quite a lot of information here. If you could run Windows Update without any issues, you don't suffer from the issue I described.
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Thought so, there's been quite a lot of information here. If you could run Windows Update without any issues, you don't suffer from the issue I described.
I actually had issues. Had to go in and trick it to run. Stopped the service. Deleted the update history folder. Restarted the service. What a nuisance. So, you obviously prompted me to fix something that was messed up. Thank you.
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What about something like this? And what does TURBO mean? I remember in the 286/386 days the TURBO BUTTON! :rofl Please tell me it's not that. :pray
Board + CPU + Memory:
Six Core, 16GB RAM ($515) - https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3706535
Quad Core, 8GB RAM ($372) - https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3646860
Dual Core, 8GB RAM ($279) - https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3136162
I've been out of the computer build game for so long all of this is Greek to me now. I'm guessing I should look for a quad-core if I can find one in my price range.
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That i5 combo is funny, a 7600K would add a lot of single core performance for not too much more money.
Notice that the new Kaby Lake processors only support Windows 10! So if you want to use your existing Win7, check for compatibility!
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I remember those turbo buttons, pressing one took the PC from 12 to 18 mhz :rofl
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That i5 combo is funny, a 7600K would add a lot of single core performance for not too much more money.
Notice that the new Kaby Lake processors only support Windows 10! So if you want to use your existing Win7, check for compatibility!
D'oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bhead
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Actually it's M$ who deliberately sabotaged Win7/8.1 so computer with new generation CPU's do work but won't find updates anymore. Same happens on AMD Ryzen.
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Actually it's M$ who deliberately sabotaged Win7/8.1 so computer with new generation CPU's do work but won't find updates anymore. Same happens on AMD Ryzen.
Can I upgrade what I have somehow or am I stuck going to Win10? I hate to sound like a moron but I kinda' need some guidance here so I don't get hosed. I do not want to go to Win10.
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You don't have to buy new necessarily to upgrade. Only the newest (and sometimes overpriced) stuff requires 10, ie the current-gen Intel and AMD's new Ryzen.
If you want to get down and dirty there are "Swap" sites such as reddit's /r/hardwareswap or other forums where people are dishing out previous gen parts daily where you can snatch up some decent deals on cpu/mobo/ram.
W10 isn't all bad though, the biggest gripe is probably the random updates that are applied.
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That's what I was worried about. The random updates causing me to glitch out when I am in AH3.
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I have W10 Pro and it has never randomly restarted on me, it seems to be the lower level W10s. Sometimes when I go to shutdown it'll do it's thing...but that is fine with me.
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I have W10 Pro and it has never randomly restarted on me, it seems to be the lower level W10s. Sometimes when I go to shutdown it'll do it's thing...but that is fine with me.
Does it download while you are in the game?
Also, what's your take on this combo?
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3466720
I'm starting to lose sleep over this. LOL
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It doesn't seem terrible - I am not on the up and up in terms of part prices currently, I know RAM prices are very high. The i3 is a good budget CPU. Just have to make sure the mobo will screw into your current tower. Is the tower a pre-built? Sometimes they have their mobos intentionally different from a standard ATX or mATX so you can't upgrade "easily".
In reality it is usually better to just say what you want to spend and go from there.
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It doesn't seem terrible - I am not on the up and up in terms of part prices currently, I know RAM prices are very high. The i3 is a good budget CPU. Just have to make sure the mobo will screw into your current tower. Is the tower a pre-built? Sometimes they have their mobos intentionally different from a standard ATX or mATX so you can't upgrade "easily".
In reality it is usually better to just say what you want to spend and go from there.
It's a standard Lenovo Mid-Tower ATX case. If that won't work VDub has a gamer case he'll give me or I can go get one at FRY'S down the road.
I'd like to spend $300 or so. If I have to spend more, okay. I want this thing to run AH3 smoothly.
I have an upgraded PS and a GTX 1060 3GB. I am okay with the HDDs I have now. I'm old school like that. Just need RAM, MB, and a good CPU.
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Actually it's M$ who deliberately sabotaged Win7/8.1 so computer with new generation CPU's do work but won't find updates anymore. Same happens on AMD Ryzen.
Microsoft, in conjunction with both Intel and AMD. Intel and AMD agreed not to supply any chipset drivers or microcode for later CPU's and motherboard chipsets.
Initially AMD said they were going to continue supporting Windows 7, then they magically changed their minds.
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With a bit pressure from M$ I assume like denying use of Win10 logos and similar if they officially support Win 7 with Ryzen.
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Microsoft, in conjunction with both Intel and AMD. Intel and AMD agreed not to supply any chipset drivers or microcode for later CPU's and motherboard chipsets.
Initially AMD said they were going to continue supporting Windows 7, then they magically changed their minds.
With a bit pressure from M$ I assume like denying use of Win10 logos and similar if they officially support Win 7 with Ryzen.
They made them an offer they couldn’t refuse.
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With a bit pressure from M$ I assume like denying use of Win10 logos and similar if they officially support Win 7 with Ryzen.
There appears to have been some level of collusion between the companies. As to what it might be, is left for speculation.
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There appears to have been some level of collusion between the companies. As to what it might be, is left for speculation.
I'll put my money on this statement.........
:salute
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Agreed, the RAM makers probably are doing what they did more then a decade ago as well (collusion).
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It's a standard Lenovo Mid-Tower ATX case. If that won't work VDub has a gamer case he'll give me or I can go get one at FRY'S down the road.
I'd like to spend $300 or so. If I have to spend more, okay. I want this thing to run AH3 smoothly.
I have an upgraded PS and a GTX 1060 3GB. I am okay with the HDDs I have now. I'm old school like that. Just need RAM, MB, and a good CPU.
Next question is how can you handle the Windows installation? Do you plan on buying a new copp (of 10)?
I might look into Ryzen just because you can get a little more for your money (getting a quad core vs a dual):
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113445
Most B350 motherboards are around $65-85 for the cheaper end ones
You could roll with 8GB of RAM now and pick up another stick later on. RAM prices are insanely high at the moment.
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Well I just got 10 for "free" just in case. I have an original 7 Pro as well on disc. Whatever you guys suggest show I will handle it.
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4 GB of RAM was enough for the system I recently built.
It was a $250 system + $115 GPU + $95 Windows 10 and runs AH3 at 60 fps with slider at none, shadows off.
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4 GB of RAM was enough for the system I recently built.
It was a $250 system + $115 GPU + $95 Windows 10 and runs AH3 at 60 fps with slider at none, shadows off.
I get 60FPS but.....
The terrain is not scrolling smoothly. It’s smooth for about one to one and a half seconds....then pauses for a a few milliseconds.....then catches back up.....repeat.
It’s the damnedest thing.
When rolling at a high rate it’s as if the roll is a series of quick freeze frames instead of a continuous movement of the horizon around the longitudinal axis when looking forward for example.
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I get 60FPS but.....
The terrain is not scrolling smoothly. It’s smooth for about one to one and a half seconds....then pauses for a a few milliseconds.....then catches back up.....repeat.
It’s the damnedest thing.
When rolling at a high rate it’s as if the roll is a series of quick freeze frames instead of a continuous movement of the horizon around the longitudinal axis when looking forward for example.
I don't get that on the inexpensive system, so it can't be 4 GB of RAM, or I'd get it, too.
I got that once in the distant past with HP printer software that was so bad it was polling my CPU and/or hard disk every second or so, causing stuff like that. Maybe some poorly written software doing that on you?
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I get 60FPS but.....
The terrain is not scrolling smoothly. It’s smooth for about one to one and a half seconds....then pauses for a a few milliseconds.....then catches back up.....repeat.
It’s the damnedest thing.
When rolling at a high rate it’s as if the roll is a series of quick freeze frames instead of a continuous movement of the horizon around the longitudinal axis when looking forward for example.
Are you running the dx11 version or dx9? If it's 11, use 9.
Wiley.
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I don't get that on the inexpensive system, so it can't be 4 GB of RAM, or I'd get it, too.
I got that once in the distant past with HP printer software that was so bad it was polling my CPU and/or hard disk every second or so, causing stuff like that. Maybe some poorly written software doing that on you?
Could be. I think I have everything turned off pretty much.
Can the Nvidea GForce Experience hog stufft in the background?
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Are you running the dx11 version or dx9? If it's 11, use 9.
Wiley.
I’m using 9. Tried 11 as well and it was the same.
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Could be. I think I have everything turned off pretty much.
Can the Nvidea GForce Experience hog stufft in the background?
It probably wouldn't do that. I remember having it installed once (but generally I don't install it), and didn't notice such.
Printer/fax/scanner software can sometimes do crap like that. Other things I've noticed pinging the cpu or hard disk periodically are: background backup software, background virus scan, background disk indexing.
Can you see if your hard disk LED light winks on in sync with the frame-rate disruption you see?
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I can look, but I don’t even remember if I connected the HDD light wire. :lol
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I can look, but I don’t even remember if I connected the HDD light wire. :lol
You can get a software one. I use this one:
https://www.sepago.com/blog/2014/01/22/freeware-diskled-tool
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Brooke has a good point there. Your current system is on par with mine, although I don't know if your AMD CPU can use both cores. If not, that may be the culprit. A single core may suffer especially if all single core tasks have been allocated to that one.
However, knowing the number of your background processes might help.
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Brooke has a good point there. Your current system is on par with mine, although I don't know if your AMD CPU can use both cores. If not, that may be the culprit. A single core may suffer especially if all single core tasks have been allocated to that one.
However, knowing the number of your background processes might help.
Why would the second core not work? Lack of RAM?
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You can get a software one. I use this one:
https://www.sepago.com/blog/2014/01/22/freeware-diskled-tool
Exxxxxxcelllent, Smithers. :old:
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Vraciu, it is not worth it to upgrade your CPU, even though you would be going from a 3.0 GHz dual-core CPU to a 3.4 GHz quad-core CPU, you will not gain hardly any boost at all.....you will still be using the same limitation of 4 GB system ram....
Vraciu, I don't know why I didn't think of it or post it sooner.....but there is a strong chance that AH is only using a single core of your dual-core CPU since it is an old Athlon II x2 CPU.... Very few of them would work using both cores in AH back when your CPU came out....most of the AMD dual-core CPUs only used 1 core...
So, if you wanted to spend $54 for that AMD phenom ll Q965 quad-core CPU, there is a 50/50 chance that You can get AH to use more than 1.... One of my AMD builds has an AMD phenom ll Q975 quad-core 3.61 GHz CPU and it uses more than 1 core....
Sorry I missed thinking about or posting this sooner....
Have you cleaned up and tweaked Windows 7 OS yet?
TC
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Vraciu, I don't know why I didn't think of it or post it sooner.....but there is a strong chance that AH is only using a single core of your dual-core CPU since it is an old Athlon II x2 CPU.... Very few of them would work using both cores in AH back when your CPU came out....most of the AMD dual-core CPUs only used 1 core...
So, if you wanted to spend $54 for that AMD phenom ll Q965 quad-core CPU, there is a 50/50 chance that You can get AH to use more than 1.... One of my AMD builds has an AMD phenom ll Q975 quad-core 3.61 GHz CPU and it uses more than 1 core....
Sorry I missed thinking about or posting this sooner....
Have you cleaned up and tweaked Windows 7 OS yet?
TC
How will I know if it works? Is there a reason the second core is inop?
I up/downgraded to Windows 10.
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Will that quad core run on my machine? It’s a drop-in replacement? Any BIOS trickery required?
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Brooke has a good point there. Your current system is on par with mine, although I don't know if your AMD CPU can use both cores. If not, that may be the culprit. A single core may suffer especially if all single core tasks have been allocated to that one.
However, knowing the number of your background processes might help.
You posted as I was typing to let him know I overlooked mentioning that his old CPU was most likely only using one core in AH
Vraciu, in the older AMD CPUs most every dual-core and at least 1/2 of some of the first quad-core CPUs, AH would only use one core.... I and Skuzzy have posted about this (along with others) but it boils down to basically instability in AMD's counter (I know that is not the correct terminology, I'd have to go look it up).. This basically causes AH to use a single core
Hope this helps and helps semi explain the AMD issue with older dual core and quad-core CPUs
TC
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Heh, TC, for once I beat some native English speaker in typing!
Your explanation is far more exact than mine would have been. :salute
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Will that quad core run on my machine? It’s a drop-in replacement? Any BIOS trickery required?
I can only tell you that it would be a 50/50 chance of it using more than 1 core...
I know I have been able to use more than 1 core on that old AMD Q975 quad-core CPU I have as well as on my AMD FX4350 B.E. 4.2 GHz quad-core CPU build...
I still recommend cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS, and get your processes down in the 42 to 34 range....
TC
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How will I know if it works? Is there a reason the second core is inop?
I up/downgraded to Windows 10.
Very old design flaw. AMD failed to provide a dedicated high resolution timer for each core. For applications which depend on a high resolution timer, such as Aces High, it meant the application could not use the other core(s) without corruption occurring.
AMD provided a work-around so applications, requiring those high resolution timers, could lock themselves into one core.
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I can only tell you that it would be a 50/50 chance of it using more than 1 core...
I know I have been able to use more than 1 core on that old AMD Q975 quad-core CPU I have as well as on my AMD FX4350 B.E. 4.2 GHz quad-core CPU build...
I still recommend cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS, and get your processes down in the 42 to 34 range....
TC
I've had minimal processes running and still have the issue. Sounds like, based on what you and Skuzzy posted, it's the CPU.
50/50... I wonder why that is? Same reason?
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Very old design flaw. AMD failed to provide a dedicated high resolution timer for each core. For applications which depend on a high resolution timer, such as Aces High, it meant the application could not use the other core(s) without corruption occurring.
AMD provided a work-around so applications, requiring those high resolution timers, could lock themselves into one core.
Interesting. Good info. I'm in the market for a quad core at this point I guess. May as well go to at least 8GB of RAM while I'm at it.
Windows 10 is doing okay, but I'm only using it so I can go to one of the newer gen CPUs.
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This one, TC?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-955-3-2-GHz-Quad-Core-Processor-Model-HDZ955FBK4DGM/162831209085?epid=96892233&hash=item25e97f127d:g:0lYAAOSwQcJZ7kUZ
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Even if it is using one core, you can see if that is OK.
Just run the task manager, click on performance, run your Aces High a bit, then go back and look at the CPU usage history.
If it is maxed out at 100%, could be CPU limited.
It it doesn't max out at all, then the issue likely isn't your CPU.
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Even if it is using one core, you can see if that is OK.
Just run the task manager, click on performance, run your Aces High a bit, then go back and look at the CPU usage history.
If it is maxed out at 100%, could be CPU limited.
It it doesn't max out at all, then the issue likely isn't your CPU.
Will do. Meanwhile I found a AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0GHz 95W that will work in this board. That's gotta' be a huge step up.
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I've always followed Skuzzy's advice regarding CPU speed and will not use anything less than a dual-core 3.2 GHz minimum or more preferable quad-core 3.2 GHz minimum (when helping build PC's over the years for different AH community members)
Depending on what you can afford....
Somewhere in this forum long ago, Skuzzy had made the recommendation of if possible to get at least a 3.0 GHz but more preferred 3.2 GHz... when selecting a CPU for building a new PC .... He made this recommendation way back when most people were still using single core CPUs and dual core CPUs were the next Big thing....
So for me, personally, I won't recommend any CPU less than 3.2 GHz regardless how many cores the CPU may have .... That goes for Intel as well as AMD CPUs
Even if you're stuck with using just one core being used by AH, an AMD 3.2 GHz Dual-core will be strong and fast enough to keep you from having problems if you're using Windows 7 64bit or Windows 8/8.1 64bit OS
Hope this helps
TC
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I've had minimal processes running and still have the issue. Sounds like, based on what you and Skuzzy posted, it's the CPU.
50/50... I wonder why that is? Same reason?
You say you have had minimal processes running, but still have the problem? Do a fresh boot and after your PC has been up and running for around 5 minutes, run a new DXDIAG report then copy and paste the top 1/3rd
Also, is this Computer of yours running Windows 7 64bit OS ? Windows 10 64bit OS? or do you have it configured as a dual-boot to boot up with either Windows 7 or Windows 10?
I noticed that you said you were using Windows 7 initially, but recently think I saw where you posted that you are using Windows 10 also?
My 50/50 response is because the only thing I know about your system is what I have read about it and I haven't seen it/researched your computer components among other things
50/50 is like a flip of the coin, I can't give you anything more than that for an answer
TC
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I found a quad core 3.2 that should work on this board. Gonna' try it.
I switched to Windows 10 via a free Win7 upgrade.
Figured it was worth a try.
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Let me ask this...
Is a quad-core at 3.0 better than a dual core at 3.2? On the surface I'd say yes, but perhaps I'm missing something.
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It just means your applications will run a tad slower, but should be able to run more applications at one time before bogging down.
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V I'd add that your reason to go to Win10 in order to go to a newer CPU is a little flawed. CPUs, whether AMD or Intel, have changed their socket shapes over the years. If you have an older motherboard you're kinda stuck with whatever the max CPU that particular motherboard's socket will support. That's not gonna be one of the newer ones that only will work on Win10.
Better IMO to look for a newer CPU/Mobo combo that supports the newer CPUs and will allow more RAM. I'd say there's no need to break the bank. If you're not into overclocking don't go all high end. Just get what you need. Sounds like you have a decent enough video card. That's a good start especially with their prices.
Honestly from the beginning of this thread I thought 4gb of ram and a 64 bit OS a bit of a contradiction. Usually people go to the 64 bit OS so that they can utilize more ram which your mobo can't support at least as I'm understanding you. In your case going from Win7 to Win10 might actually hurt you as you'll have far less control over what's running in the background(which is a lot more) than you did with Win7. That right there is costing you clock cycles and available ram. I'll be keeping my win7/64 until I absolutely have to give it up.
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Skuzzy: Copy that. Thanks.
Drano: I switched to Windows 10 because I intend to upgrade to a newer board and cpu. The problem is that all the new stuff won’t run Win7. So...I went ahead and did the free upgrade to 10 to expand my hardware options knowing I can roll back at any time (or do a fresh Win7 install with my disc).
I also just felt like trying to out so I can make an informed decision on which way to go.
This PC originally had 2GB RAM and Windows 8. I “upgraded” to XP and later 7. It has been running great until fairly recently when the stuttering started. I don’t know if something in one of the recent updates made my machine mad......(?) I’m wanting to go to at least 8GB but this board is maxed out. So....the search continues.
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What I was trying to get at is that given your hardware, your "upgrade" to Win10 probably wasn't an upgrade at all. It's a much more power hungry OS on its face and you just don't have any excess of horsepower to run it on your present rig.
As to the stutters, all of us have noticed them crop up--and at about the same time too. I'd guess it was from some windows update to Win7 that we just haven't deciphered yet. MS has cleverly (could probably use other words) hidden crap in some disguised as other things that are really trying to get things to function more like Win10. I've tried to keep track of the ones identified and hidden them but the bastids come out with others hidden in other updates! Friggin whack a mole! MS cares not about your performance! They don't care about what YOU think you're doing with YOUR PC! They're all about what telemetry they can gather it seems. And that, sadly, is kinda the way of all things tech these days. I might not mind it SO much if they maybe generated a report and zapped it off at boot up. No! They're taking control of your PC and internet in real time to do it. This is a problem for us as we need every spare clock cycle and bit in that same time.
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What I was trying to get at is that given your hardware, your "upgrade" to Win10 probably wasn't an upgrade at all. It's a much more power hungry OS on its face and you just don't have any excess of horsepower to run it on your present rig.
I understood that part. But it gives me a chance to try it out and see if I like it and allows me the option of going to the newest chips that are out there, i.e. those that have no Win7 support. If I stick with Win7 (which I can always decide to do) it limits my hardware choices somewhat.
Basically I have the option to do anything I want in pretty much any combination. I can also simply go back to Win7 with the current machine.
I'm glad I at least gave Win10 a try. I was dreading it but it hasn't really been all bad. Yes, I prefer 7. Heck I prefer Win2K if I had my druthers, but it's been okay. Still, time marches on. :cheers:
As to the stutters, all of us have noticed them crop up--and at about the same time too. I'd guess it was from some windows update to Win7 that we just haven't deciphered yet. MS has cleverly (could probably use other words) hidden crap in some disguised as other things that are really trying to get things to function more like Win10. I've tried to keep track of the ones identified and hidden them but the bastids come out with others hidden in other updates! Friggin whack a mole! MS cares not about your performance! They don't care about what YOU think you're doing with YOUR PC! They're all about what telemetry they can gather it seems. And that, sadly, is kinda the way of all things tech these days. I might not mind it SO much if they maybe generated a report and zapped it off at boot up. No! They're taking control of your PC and internet in real time to do it. This is a problem for us as we need every spare clock cycle and bit in that same time.
Yeah, I am with you. I *REALLY* hate the big brother mindset of Microsloth. And they're the opposite of Burger King: "You get it our way or you don't get the #&*$# thing!" Well to heck with that! If AH ever goes away I'm switching to Linux for good. I wish AH would run on MINT. I'd already have dumped Windoze.
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Well, for now, I've ordered one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/p/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-945-3GHz-Quad-Core-HDX945WFK4DGM-Processor/96871331?iid=152106203790&opts=opick
That will hopefully pump things up a tiny bit while I settle on a long-term solution. Basically it's a quad-core at 3.0 GHz instead of my pseudo-dual core at 3.0 GHz. It's pretty much the fastest 95W AM3 AMD chip I can get. I think any way. Now I am wondering about a BIOS flash. Hopefully that's not necessary.
I'm hoping this will help AH3 run on its own core and everything else can run on the rest of them.
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Update:
Managed to run a direct Cat5 through the attic down to my gaming rig. A brief test showed that the microstutters have all but disappeared. I guess my USB WiFi was blipping the game somehow.
Next step: Quad-core processor.
Thanks all for your help and advice. Still debating a permanent solution, but if I can squeeze a bit more life out of this rig so prices come down, well....
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Update:
Managed to run a direct Cat5 through the attic down to my gaming rig. A brief test showed that the microstutters have all but disappeared. I guess my USB WiFi was blipping the game somehow.
Next step: Quad-core processor.
Thanks all for your help and advice. Still debating a permanent solution, but if I can squeeze a bit more life out of this rig so prices come down, well....
Well that explains alot right there Wi-Fi via USB is a double whammy issue!
I didn't know that you did not have a dedicated hardline net connection.....
Hey Drano, brother, I have not experienced any stutters or micro-stutters (just ribbing ya bro)
Vraciu, you recently posted that you may have let an update get installed, which could be causing the stuttering...
I recommend that you look at/read the Processes thread in this forum as well as read the tips stickied at the top of the Tech support forum by Skuzzy
These will tell you what updates you need to check and remove/uninstall them / hide them
I've been a very frugal person regarding processes and windows updates! I never install updates until I have fully understand read and researched how each update might affect the way I set up my computer OSes....
Hopefully that quad-core 955 will allow you to use 2 cores, since it is a phenom ll model.... You should definitely read up on all the bios updates for your MB! You might need to update/flash your bios depending on what the different bios versions fix/offer
And if you find that you are not using 2 cores you at least have the ability to lock 1 of the 4 cores to infinity tied to AcesHigh only 100% , then let Windows use the other 3 cores which will be fine
Edit: I am assuming that you will be dumping Windows 10 and reinstalling Windows 7 Pro 64bit OS
Hope this helps, sorry been absent for past few days
TC
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Good stuff.
The quad-core is compatible with my Bios. I checked with Leonovo before I bought it. So that's no problem.
Can you lock a core in Win10 or is that Win7-only thing? Pretty awesome capability.
I will probably overclock the quad-core 3.0 to a 3.1 or 3.2 if it can be done.
I don't have any processes running really. I'm concerned about all this background mining stuff you guys have been talking about though. I'm assuming that won't show up in Task Manager anywhere.
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That was a typo error when I typed 955, I meant 945 3.0 GHz quad-core, sorry...
Yes, you need to check and see if you might have allowed an undesirable update(s) get installed....
Skuzzy has posted all the bad/harmful updates in both of the threads I just posted above
Yes, you will be or should be able to easily overclock that 945 to 3.2 GHz with no problem
I have not checked on my Windows 10 Entprise LTSB 64bit OS, but I am assuming that MS has not removed that option for setting up your cores... Pudgie would know this for sure,.... Think I remember him posting about it on his AMD Ryzen CPU build...
TC
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I guess my USB WiFi was blipping the game somehow.
That's a good guess! As TC said, that's a double whammy. WiFi alone is worse than wired since it's Half Duplex only. What does that mean? Imagine that data comes in pallets like the goods in your local store. Now if there's a broken package inside a pallet, a Half Duplex shopkeeper would wait until the whole pallet has been unpacked before sending back a request for missing/defect goods. A Full Duplex system will send the request immediately when a single issue has been encountered.
For overclocking, there's many things to adjust. Start by looking at the bus speed. Increasing bus speed doesn't cause heating as much as raising the multiplier. You may even get better results by raising the bus and lowering the multiplier so that the clock rate remains the same (Clock rate=Bus speed x Multiplier). So since your Phenom has a bus speed of 667 (2 x 333) the multiplier must be 3000/667=4.5 you could try to raise the bus closer to 800 (2 x 400) while lowering the multiplier down to 3.75. -What's the bus? It's like a water hose. A 1/4" hose requires much more pressure than a 1/2" one to transfer the same amount of water in a given time. More pressure means increased risk of bursting.
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Good stuff. Unlike my custom built (outdated) rig, Lenovo has the BIOS locked for clocking. Any suggestions on software?
How high would you go? Is 3.3 a safe bet?
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Good stuff. Unlike my custom built (outdated) rig, Lenovo has the BIOS locked for clocking. Any suggestions on software?
How high would you go? Is 3.3 a safe bet?
Sorry to hear that your Bios is locked to where you're not able to overclock....
I myself much prefer to be able to to do any overclocking to where it is coming from the hardware before anything from any windows OSes start loading at boot up...
You should be able to use AMD's Overdrive software in Windows 7 64bit OS to overclock your CPU...
It is really simple and easily recoverable and has an Auto Tuning for Overclocking feature to let you know how much / how far you are able to overclock your CPU... It also has an On/Off switch you can click to use it when you want to. Just becareful, for with using the Auto Tuning to not set it at the highest overclock that is stable for you might not be setup for the excessive heat or have good cooling/airflow capability....
Hope this helps
TC
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And V, make sure you have adequate cooling for the cpu if you're gonna try to overclock. Heat is a killer. I've found the hyper 212 cooler is a really good one for not a whole lot of money. Like 30 bucks. Just make sure you have clearance in your case for whatever you use.
Oh and some sort of monitoring software is a good idea. You can't just set it and forget it--until you find what the settings are. Gotta take small steps and pay attention to what's happening. Takes time.
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Excellent info, gang. Thanks.
I will look into it.
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The stock cooler should be able to support a .2ghz increase. Needing an aftermarket one comes into play when you are bumping much past that. With the new processor, tossing some AS5 would probably help with temps also rather than the stock paste.
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The stock cooler should be able to support a .2ghz increase. Needing an aftermarket one comes into play when you are bumping much past that. With the new processor, tossing some AS5 would probably help with temps also rather than the stock paste.
I’ve got ARCTIC ORACO-MX40001-BL MX-4 Thermal Compound Paste. Carbon Based because I’m sure to be messy. Lol
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EDIT IN: PROBLEM SOLVED. I rebooted it after going through the manual select process and now it's finding it. I realize my new CPU is the same 3.0 GHz as my last one, but with four cores instead of two it definitely makes a difference when running multiple programs.
Now to figure out how to lock a core for AH3.
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Okay gang..........
Quad Core is in. It's working. I'll figure out how to lock one core onto AH3 later but.......................... .............
When I boot up the machine isn't seeing the HDD. I can boot via the temporary device menu option and get to Windows no problem, but it will not autostart.
Any ideas?
:frown: :salute
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EDIT IN: PROBLEM SOLVED. I rebooted it after going through the manual select process and now it's finding it. I realize my new CPU is the same 3.0 GHz as my last one, but with four cores instead of two it definitely makes a difference when running multiple programs.
Now to figure out how to lock a core for AH3.
___________________________
Okay gang..........
Quad Core is in. It's working. I'll figure out how to lock one core onto AH3 later but.......................................
When I boot up the machine isn't seeing the HDD. I can boot via the temporary device menu option and get to Windows no problem, but it will not autostart.
Any ideas?
:frown: :salute
Hi Vraciu,
Once you've gotten all else lined out...............
You might try to run AHIII on your new setup as it is to see if it will run then open TM, Performance, CPU to check to see if,
1. The CPU cores are all unlocked (at top of each core in upper rt corner should show 100% for each core). If any show 0% then they are parked and this is the 1st item to address,
2. Which CPU cores are being used the most (Windows uses a round-robin, token ring approach to thread assignment....always starts w\ CPU core0, then goes to CPU core1 if core0 is busy, etc. This is why CPU core0 is usually always the heaviest used CPU core........). This is where CPU priority\affinity can be of some use to help the game to run better (read SMOOTHER here, not necessarily FASTER) on this "new" PhenomII X4 945 CPU.
Now TC might know this part, but I'm under the impression that w\ the PhenomII CPU's AMD did fix the timer issue so that all going forward would use the HPET timer as all Intel CPU's so if this is so you should see more than 1 CPU core being utilized by default.
Now you CAN run AHIII on 1 CPU core, but I personally wouldn't recommend it. Have data to back this up. Minimum I would recommend to use is 2 CPU cores.
If you're still using Win 10 then the core parking issue should be a non gratis up front as this is 1 area where Win 10 has shown to be working well (by default Win 10 has shown to run all physical CPU cores unparked).........
In the meantime I'll look up a CPU core block diagram for a PhenomII CPU to look at the layout for familiarity...............
Let us know when you're ready to play w\ it.
:salute
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Good stuff. I will take a gander at it later based on your post. Afterburner showed four cores working. I was running many processes to try and spike it. Seemed good. It was faster AND smoother for sure. I think the x2 I had before was bottlenecking everything. This chip seems to chew through things a bit faster. Not each program on its own perhaps, but when multi-tasking, i.e. having AH, YT, PSP, and Skin Viewer all going...
I think my x2 was just not hacking it.
Or it’s just a placebo effect. Lol
So what next?
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This is another week full of Dr.s appointments, specialist visits, X-rays, MRIs, CTscans, etc....
I'm in agreement with Pudgie's post above.... Some time ago, I posted about the timeline of when AMD noticed they had an issue that needed to be fixed with "timer" and pretty sure it was addressed during production of the Phenom ll model AMD CPUs....
One other thing I have noticed building PCs for myself and others using AMD phenom ll quad-core CPUs is that every one I have had access to actually have an additional 2 cores turned off in the bios..... I have messed around turning them on and even had success overclocking all 6 cores without issues... But I've not seriously found a need for anything more than a quad-core CPU regardless if it is AMD or INTEL....
But going forward if I decide to build anymore PCs, I'm thinking/been reading up on the new AMD Ryzen II's / AMD Raven APUs among other things.... Along with what the INTEL side is coming out with....
Here lately it seems like the PC and PC component's market reminds me of paying prices like we had back in 1988 thru 1993.... heh remember paying over $4,500.00+ for a 486x2 60MHz with 4 MB System ram and 512K video, before doing any upgrades....
anyway, hopefully your Phenom II CPU works AH3 with multiple cores.... and like Spike posted you should be OK with overclocking up .2 to .4 with the stock CPU fan and heatsink, I would not push it past that....either bump it to 3.2 GHz or 3.4 GHz (only if you think you might need to)
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I remember paying $5K for an Epson Equity I - 512KB RAM, Dual 5.25” Floppy, 2400 Baud Modem. They threw in SubLogic’s JET for free. Woot!
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One other thing I have noticed building PCs for myself and others using AMD phenom ll quad-core CPUs is that every one I have had access to actually have an additional 2 cores turned off in the bios..... I have messed around turning them on and even had success overclocking all 6 cores without issues... But I've not seriously found a need for anything more than a quad-core CPU regardless if it is AMD or INTEL....
Then you must have had an incredible amount of luck to get your hands on multiple of the very rare Zosma Quadcores which were actually X6 with two cores disabled, the only X4 in revision E0.
BTW I'm typing this on an X4 945 95W Rev C3 which is undervolted and trimmed for silence.
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Actually the one I first built using a quad-core CPU and is still running almost nonstop since April 2011 is an AMD Q975 phenom ll quad-core B.E. 3.6 GHz Deneb <---spelling? CPU and it has 6 cores with 2 disabled... (BTW I typo'ed earlier calling it a Q965 model)
I have found dual-core AMD CPUs that have had 2 extra cores disabled as well....
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II
Found this interesting.................. ......
:salute
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II
Found this interesting.................. ......
:salute
Good stuff. Makes me wonder what my overclock potential is...
I was using this one to see if I could get the 955 to work. I’m now running a 945 C3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors#.22Deneb.22_.28C2.2FC3.2C_45_nm.2C_quad-core.29
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Good stuff. Makes me wonder what my overclock potential is...
I was using this one to see if I could get the 955 to work. I’m now running a 945 C3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors#.22Deneb.22_.28C2.2FC3.2C_45_nm.2C_quad-core.29
Hey Vraciu, when you purchased that 945, was it listed as a "Black Edition" ? If not you might not be able to overclock it if I remember correctly.... Think that only the B.E. models came with an unlocked multiplier....
Hope that it's working well for you
TC
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Hey Vraciu, when you purchased that 945, was it listed as a "Black Edition" ? If not you might not be able to overclock it if I remember correctly.... Think that only the B.E. models came with an unlocked multiplier....
Hope that it's working well for you
TC
Not a BE. But as per Pudgie’s link the non-BE can overclock just not as much.
I can’t find a cracked BIOS for LENOVO though, so am stuck with software overclocking...
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Not a BE. But as per Pudgie’s link the non-BE can overclock just not as much.
I can’t find a cracked BIOS for LENOVO though, so am stuck with software overclocking...
Yeah, I was thinking that the only way you would be able would be via AMD Overdrive software or possibly MSI's Afterburner (I don't recall if it has overclocking ability but think that it does)..... Yes my previous post was referring to Hardware ability to overclock via BIOS using FSB settings, voltage settings, the Multiplier, etc....
with my dementia issues I've had trouble remembering probably 1/2 or more of what I've researched and learned regarding AMD and INTEL CPU technology, having to go back and refresh my memory or searching through 1,000s of white papers and articles regarding all the changes since the 80s/90s ....
Are you using Windows 10 still? Or did you do a fresh install back to Windows 7?
How has your PC been performing since installing that 945 phenom ll quad-core CPU?
~S~
TC
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I’m still with 10. Performance has improved. Programs still launch at the same speed (obviously) but the time it takes to start the launch has been reduced. Scrolling is smoother under load in the skin viewer. Micro stutters have been reduced to almost nothing in the game. (They came back on my x2 even after I dumped my WiFi.)
Overall things definitely run smoother.
I would like to go to 3.3 GHz and see if that helps the bottlenecking. I’m sure my vid card is waiting in the CPU.
Hopefully re-researching is helping to keep you mentally young, TC.
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Hi Vraciu,
By chance do you know what the specs are on the 2Gb x 2 DDR3 mem kit you're running? Especially CL and Freq?
I ask this as I had looked at the specs of your computer and noted that your mobo can accept some pretty high freq mem (PC8500).......
You could squeeze a little more performance out of your current rig by swapping in a faster set of mem modules over the existing mem modules you have by reducing the amount of time it is taking for the mem to transfer data when called for and to move more data within the same amount of time across the rising and falling mem clock cycles. Now what I'm about to suggest doesn't take into account the mem clock "wait" or "hold" time (the time in nano secs for the mem clock to switch\reset from the end of a rising clock cycle to the start of a falling clock cycle and vice-versa) or mem power stability which can vary depending on several variables but in the scheme of things will usually impart a very small\minor impact to the overall performance of a mem module outside of the cas latency\frequency relationship during the rising\falling clock cycles so the CL\Freq is the main relationship to focus on......to determine mem PERFORMANCE.
To determine the faster mem module just divide the frequency number by the cas latency number to get a final number of what the mem module in question could actually move within this total rise\fall clock time interval.....the larger the result, the faster the mem module but for the result to be noticeable the difference threshold needs to be at least 20 between the 2 to effectively account for any unforeseen variables. This is a simple formula to use to determine this by. If you want, you can search for sites that provide calculators to do the same thing that take in more of the variables to get a more accurate result but what you'll find is that the results of this simple formula will be very consistent to them..........
Example 1(I'm using some DDR4 mem I have as I know the CL & Freq numbers of it):
1. DDR4 13cl x 2133freq vs DDR4 15cl x 3000freq
2133\13 = 164.08 vs 3000\15 = 200.00 w\ spread of 35.92 so the DDR4 15cl x 3000 mem module is the faster mem module that the mem performance difference will most likely be noticeable between the 2 (you'll see and "feel" the difference when using your box).
Example 2:
2. DDR4 13cl x 2133freq vs DDR4 14cl x 2400freq
2133\13 = 164.08 vs 2400\14 = 171.43 w\ spread of 7.35 so the DDR4 14cl x 2400 mem module is TECHNICALLY the faster mem module, but the performance difference is so slight that you most likely won't notice it\notice a worst result due to the other variables not being effectively accounted for cancelling the small gains out. Now if you could find the same 2400 freq mem w\ a lower cl number the game can change (or the same 13 cl mem w\ a higher freq number)......
2133\13 = 164.08 vs 2400\13 = 184.62 w\ spread of 20.54......now you will most likely be able to notice a small difference in the performance as the spread between the 2 is large enough to actually make up for\overcome other variables not accounted for w\ some extra performance to show up visually and in "feel". The larger the spread is, the more noticeable the result will be until you meet\exceed the capacities of the rest of the system bus traces on the mobo (which usually should be the bus between the CPU and mem\DMA controller(s)). Any mem module performance gains past this point is wasted\useless.
The idea is to find the fastest overall mem modules (lowest CL w\ highest Freq) to use for the lowest\most practical costs that can meet\exceed expectations and work on your mobo w\o having to downclock it to fully optimize your existing computer's performance to the best you can within the limitations you're facing, and just using either the CL number or the Freq number alone can\will be somewhat misleading.....unless you actually hit the "numbers" by chance......
Of course the other option is to overclock the existing mem module's frequency to achieve the same result but now the power stability issue comes into play, but it's free performance if achievable......
Just putting this out there for your consideration if getting all the performance out of your existing box is what you're really wanting to do at this time. Now if you've already done this then good for you!
I now do this myself up front when I either upgrade to a new mobo or build from scratch w\ a new mobo as this also can save money over time.
Hope this can help you out.
:salute
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Let me check and get back to you, Pudgie. :salute