Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kavo on February 19, 2018, 07:30:36 AM
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OK guys.. It's well known that my feeling about the ground radar is that it's an appalling abomination and should not exist.... And I'm not gonna list the numerous and quite obvious reasons for my feelings.
I have also read the arguments for it... But I feel they are weak and based around people's frustration at not finding gvs easily.
I am not alone in my hatred of the radar and I know I can say it has spoiled the game to such an extent that I question why I stay.
Anyway....
Spawn camping is a lousy cheap trick too and as a gv driver it's frustrating too.
How about making the spawns moveable.so if one gets camped.. Which is sorta cheating...., then the attacking side can move it a distance but no closer to the base.. Or even that we can set out own spawn points whenever we attack. At a set minimum distance from the base being attacked.... not just when spawn camped.
And if we are going to keep the infernal gv dar then let's make it so the dar can be taken down by ords to bring in a new dimension.
I may even get to like the game again.
I also know I'm not alone in these feelings and many other players have mentioned their disgust too about the damned dar. So I see this suggestion... Which wasn't entirely mine as a great alternative.
Add your comment with an opening word of Yes.. NO. OR Maybe. So we can see at a glance how people feel.
I'm going back to my hole now. :x
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MAYBE...... but Spawn Camping was not born with GV Dar. All it does is let you know there is a gv in your general area. We had a great tank fight going last night and gv dar played no part in it. It was a flat out slug fest. And was hella fun. Just so it is out there gv dar can go or stay I could care less. People will continually find something to gripe about and threaten to leave. And quite honestly it is getting to be old and repetitive. I don't get to play as much as I used to but I still have fun when I get on and play and focus on the things that make me want to play the game. If gving was the ONLY thing you enjoyed about the game then you missed out on about 65% of the rest of the game.
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Nice reply... Sadly I'm a lousy pilot hence I gv far more.i always use vehicles tactically to try and take bases. I know the spawn camp has been around for a long time. I have no love of it... When I did it I felt it was unfair and cheap and on the receiving end... I hated it. But yes I have had some bruising battles too.
I think gv dar needs to go. Its not fair on gvs and if that's what people want... Then get rid of gvs.
Ww2 which this is supposed to represent... Had no gv dar. Just eyes and ears.
I can never get my joysticks set well enough to be a decent opponent in flight. Lol
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Talk to some of the guys in the Training Corp for help or hell I will help you scale your stick it is actually easy once you figure it out. I am a terrible pilot unless I am flying a Spixteen which is a plane almost anybody can look good flying. Only thing I can claim is that I am great at porking fields but not alot of people like spending time to do it.
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I'm not sure how easily HTC could implement moveable spawns. CurrentlyI think you spawn at some random location within a certain distance from the spawn. Might be easier to just increase that distance.
It might help some if we were not be able to see the spawn points of opposing forces on our clipboard map. Finding the enemy's spawn location is the first step to camping, and if that info was not available it might be much harder...
<S>
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(https://s9.postimg.org/sozw7u54f/horse.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
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OK guys.. It's well known that my feeling about the ground radar is that it's an appalling abomination and should not exist.... And I'm not gonna list the numerous and quite obvious reasons for my feelings.
I have also read the arguments for it... But I feel they are weak and based around people's frustration at not finding gvs easily.
I am not alone in my hatred of the radar and I know I can say it has spoiled the game to such an extent that I question why I stay.
Anyway....
Spawn camping is a lousy cheap trick too and as a gv driver it's frustrating too.
How about making the spawns moveable.so if one gets camped.. Which is sorta cheating...., then the attacking side can move it a distance but no closer to the base.. Or even that we can set out own spawn points whenever we attack. At a set minimum distance from the base being attacked.... not just when spawn camped.
And if we are going to keep the infernal gv dar then let's make it so the dar can be taken down by ords to bring in a new dimension.
I may even get to like the game again.
I also know I'm not alone in these feelings and many other players have mentioned their disgust too about the damned dar. So I see this suggestion... Which wasn't entirely mine as a great alternative.
Add your comment with an opening word of Yes.. NO. OR Maybe. So we can see at a glance how people feel.
I'm going back to my hole now. :x
1) Movable Spawn Camp
Maybe.
The reason it's not a "yes" is because I didn't get the sense that spawn camping was as prevalent in AH3 as it was in AH2. My objection (if you can call it that) is that I imagine it would take a fair amount of work on HT's part to implement and I don't feel it's desperately needed. But if it's a simple fix, sure, it's a good idea.
2) GV Dar Takedown-able
Yes.
It's not a satisfactory solution to the abomination that is GV dar, but at least it would be a step in the right direction.
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(https://s9.postimg.org/sozw7u54f/horse.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Let me guess: the guy in the top hat is HiTech, and the horse is the community of players that hate the GV dar?
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3osxYjGEujMIzeLRpm/giphy.gif)
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I'm not sure how easily HTC could implement moveable spawns. Currently I think you spawn at some random location within a certain distance from the spawn. Might be easier to just increase that distance.
Great minds think alike. Or, at least we two.
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Bring back 1.5k icons for GVs and then you can get rid of ground radar.
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Is it you don't like the idea of spawning into a fixed position 1\2 diameter circle randomly inside of that circle or, you want to spawn randomly inside of the 3 mile radius defined by the town flag or the field flag to sneak around and dominate everyone becasue you are "sneaking around randomly"? GVDAR is to solve the same problem of years ago 400 players would avoid combat by hiding in NOE hoards on opposite sides of the map. Today with 150 players average, the GVDAR is to help 150 people find combat, not hide from each other which is much easier to do with only 150 people. The words strategy or sneaking mean hiding from contact with the enemy which means no combat. So you have GVDAR. Surprisingly some GV customers are paying Hitech to have combat in their tank against other tanks. :rolleyes:
In the first condition the terrain builder has the discretion of where to place that 1\2 circle. In AH2 it did not become a random position spawn circle until almost the end of AH2. That only solved half the spawn camping problem. The other half was a combination of the tree clutter tiles of the time were very sparse and the terrain builders didn't build the spawns to protect the in spawning GVs. No one thought to hand paint more tree tile into the spawn circle area to protect the GVers. I do that with the AH3 terrain editor to make sure spawns on my terrains are fair to in spawning tanks.
The second condition would have tanks randomly spawning onto the airfield destabalising the game. While some number of this audience want to do things like that to unbalance the arena becasue they feel tanks are sitting ducks and the rest of us deserve it. As a terrain builder I would place that spawn point 10miles from any field and let them spend all night driving to a none existent fight.
The real point for GV's is time in transit which none of you have ever tested. I stop watched tanks on my first terrain testing time to the map room through the clutter tiles. Three miles takes a panzer about 7 minutes at top speed. In our game that is a long amount of time transiting to a fight. Move the spawn farther away, 5, 6, 7 miles, and if you fear defending tanks are around, your transit can be up to 60 minutes in the worst condition. As is, with 3miles I've watched some tanks take 30 minutes to get at a town becasue they were worried about tanks finding them.
At least you didn't complain there are not enough GV spawns on 500ft hills with clear lanes of fire to the field and the town.
Why not wish list a new GV spawn type instead. When the terrain builder uses the circle tool to set the spawn distance, the new spawn is still 1\2 mile diameter but, when set down on the distance circle, the line of the circle is the center line for the 1\2 circle ends to be stretched along the circle for .5-1 mile in each direction along the circle line arc. Anything larger and random will not maintain game balance and end up being abused by GV greifers. Ask your selves why Hitech chose 1500ft radii for the random spawn circle?
When you come up with GV ideas and you start throwing distance into them, think about the longer the distance, the longer Hitech's customers will be driving and doing nothing else for the evening. The magic teleportation spawns are to equalize the time difference for a fighter flying 19-20 miles to the same field to get into a fight as a GVer has to expend up to 30 minutes just to cover 7 miles under the worst conditions.
WT has GVDAR, WoT has tiny arenas about the size of our airfield\town\spawn local combat areas, where no one can hide from each other. And wwIIonline has a fixed map of Europe 325,000sq miles that the roads and villages have not been changed since the game came out (2005??). Everyone knows where you have to drive to make your attack. I think everyone can pull up road maps and guess the obvious in that game. Everyone spawns into combat. AH3 is the only game where the complaints are about not being able to hide from fighting. :rolleyes:
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Icons won't help, they don't appear when the GV isn't visible below a tree.
Is there any official statement on the pupose of GV dar? The usefulness for me is that it reduces the randomness when trying to capture a field. A clear indication if a defender is remaining and needs to be killed before it makes sense to drop troops.
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1) Today with 150 players average, the GVDAR is to help 150 people find combat, not hide from each other which is much easier to do with only 150 people....
2) The words strategy or sneaking mean hiding from contact with the enemy which means no combat. So you have GVDAR.
3) Surprisingly some GV customers are paying Hitech to have combat in their tank against other tanks.
1) Have you not noticed the increase of complaints about GVs hiding in the new GV dar era? They have to hide because their existence and rough position are instantly known and they are very vulnerable to bomb****s; and according to you, "hiding from contact with the enemy means no combat." So the GV dar makes a fight harder to find, not easier, right?
2) Strategy/being sneaky in a GV is no different than a fighter extending from a fight in which he'd die if he stuck around. If he runs for home, he's avoiding combat. But if he's getting alt and E in order to re-enter the fight on better terms, then he's fighting, right?
3) Surprisingly you have failed to notice that the complaints about the GV dar are overwhelmingly coming from GVers. The great majority of them neither like nor want the GV dar. So if HT is really trying to please the GV crowd, the GV dar ought to go. People were finding GV fights fine without it.
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Icons won't help, they don't appear when the GV isn't visible below a tree.
Is there any official statement on the pupose of GV dar? The usefulness for me is that it reduces the randomness when trying to capture a field. A clear indication if a defender is remaining and needs to be killed before it makes sense to drop troops.
HiTech himself posted it was "to help players find a fight." As for the indication as to whether or not a defender is remaining, red end sortie/green end sortie tells you the same thing; you just need to be in a GV and stopped (or in communication with someone who is in a GV and stopped) to get that piece of data.
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That's a weird reason. And for the GVs and they don't like it.
For the usefulness for captures the red/green exit doesn't help much. Despite the convenience for carrying troops GVs don't play any significant role in captures. An M3 close enough to see it is a dead M3 anyway.
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I've had no problems driving a GV onto base, deacking it, taking out the VH and ord, and camping the base for 20 minutes while someone else pounds town. This is with GV dar, so I still don't get what the complaint is. If I, a novice GVer, can accomplish this, you GV studs should have a cakewalk doing it.
For all of the complaining, the only thing I can hear is, "I want my GV to have its cloaking device back so I can spawn camp and no one will know I'm there."
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The complaints are overwhelmingly coming from the same less than a dozen people here in the forums. The players in the arena who could always fight in a GV are still landing kills and being invisible, sneaking onto fields, and everything else they could do before GVDAR. GVDAR seems to be dividing GVers into those who can and those who used sneaking and avoiding combat as a crutch.
Before GVDAR these same people here in the forums were complaining that in an air combat game, for some reason, airplane drivers were dropping bombs on them for sneaking too close to their airfields. One of the complaints was airplane drivers seemed to magically know a GV was in the area back then and bombed them asap. Almost like they had GVDAR becasue they knew how to look for a GV like they still know how today. And those complaints took place with the shortened GV icon ranges.
All of these GV arguments are like dots connecting to the only thing that possibly might make you guys happy. No bases flashing in response to GV's, no arrow showing where the GV sapwn is, and no enemy GV icon of any kind. Sneaking a rear area field will only flash that base, you have to be within 10miles to get a GVDAR on your clipboard map. It's obvious to vets that flashing base is under attack by a GV. So upping with a bomb it's pretty obvious by the spawn location where to start looking. It has always been that way.
So GVDAR seems to be a stalking pony to push no icons, no flashing bases, no spawn arrow and no GV dar block. Invisible GV's roaming everywhere they want becasue otherwise it's dangerous out there.
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For all of the complaining, the only thing I can hear is, "I want my GV to have its cloaking device back so I can spawn camp and no one will know I'm there."
Yep, more cries from a very vocal, yet very uninformed few.
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The best part is Lusche provided the stats showing there has been no appreciable difference n the amount of A2G kills, and actually a slight uptick in G2A kills since GVDAR was implemented, but why listen to facts when you can yell that "EVERYONE THINKS THE WAY I DO AND I'LL QUIT IF I DON'T GET MY WAY". It is the 21st century after all! :old:
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Look at the news and Internet to what the current fashion is for protesting something or holding some public\private entity's social goodwill hostage by a group. To facilitate applying societal pressure or embarrass an entity into capitulating because the entity doesn't want to be seen as the "bad guy" in the eyes of their customers or constituency. Hitech do what "we" want or, we imply bad things "can" happen passive aggressively becasue we are victims of "your poor judgement" is the usual scenario. Then look at the long history of complaints and small groups like this in these forums. Then look at Facebook and Twitter to how fake groups of people can be purchased to make one person read like he has 100,000 like minded followers. That was working for awhile against business becasue they didn't bother to discover if the 100,000 negative reviews were by human beings or bots.
Then how people will try to make their audience here believe they speak for a monolithic group of like minded nameless victims like themselves after carefully first defining how they are victims. In today's culture everyone is supposed to be afraid of victims.
Welcome to the 21st Century.......
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These are the same people that would say the flight model is inaccurate because there's no way an LA7 should be bested by a 109G2 and demand the plane be removed from the game. :old:
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So GVDAR seems to be a stalking pony to push no icons, no flashing bases, no spawn arrow. Invisible GV's roaming everywhere they want becasue otherwise it's dangerous out there.
Is that willful ignorance or hyperbole, bustr? Or are you just advancing another straw man argument because I refuted the one in your previous post on this subject?
No one has pushed--or even mentioned--any of those things.
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When you reduce all of your arguments to the basics, it's the end game because you are arguing for being invisible and doing what you want to the community and getting away with it visa that invisibility. Sneaking and invisibility are gateways to invulnerability in combat games that do not allow it like this one. You are trying to be victims and force Hitech to capitulate from how he runs his game with the inference of a nebulous consequence. While emboldening your arguments to be righteous by presenting yourselves as victims.
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Yep, more cries from a very vocal, yet very uninformed few.
Devil , I've stayed out of these discussions and you KNOW what side I'm on, so why don't you stay out also, you have no logical, rational reasons for your hatred of the GV community. There that makes me feel better, ya whinny lil twit.
Now back to silence again. :lipsrsealed:
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Devil , I've stayed out of these discussions and you KNOW what side I'm on, so why don't you stay out also, you have no logical, rational reasons for your hatred of the GV community. There that makes me feel better, ya whinny lil twit.
Now back to silence again. :lipsrsealed:
I have very logical and rational reasons for my dislike of the GV game. Spawn camps and "stealth" I find to be lame behaviors as they do not produce or promote balanced combat - or any combat for that matter. I severely dislike the fact that a GV can hide so easily from an aircraft - especially Wirbels - since they can track and kill well outside the range an aircraft can mount an attack of it's own. I hate that GV'ers here believe that they deserve to be immune to air attack - they most certainly do not. And I hate most of all the "holier than thou" attitude of those most vocal of the GV fools take here when being told that the GV dar is good for the overall game - which it is.
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That's a weird reason. And for the GVs and they don't like it.
For the usefulness for captures the red/green exit doesn't help much. Despite the convenience for carrying troops GVs don't play any significant role in captures. An M3 close enough to see it is a dead M3 anyway.
Excuse Me? We The Knights lost at least 10 to 15 bases maybe more where Tanks played a significant part in our loss of the bases, tanks provide tank suppression aka tank battles while the planes suppressed or planes, full on gv and plane battle to defend and attack our bases.
so don't tell me gvs don't play a significant part in this game, because you are WRONG and don't know what your talking about.
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Excuse Me? We The Knights lost at least 10 to 15 bases maybe more where Tanks played a significant ...
Stop there. I am on Knights. We have no coherent strategy neither for offense nor defence. We rarely win fields, and we give them away for free more often than not. Those 10-15 sound interesting, but considering that we are losing 100 of fields they are meaningless.
The typical GV attack stops once you kill every attacker 2 or 3 times with bombs. They simply don't like that. You try to put tanks in their way you increase their fun, and by doing so increase the risk of losing the field.
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The complaints are overwhelmingly coming from the same less than a dozen people here in the forums. The players in the arena who could always fight in a GV are still landing kills and being invisible, sneaking onto fields, and everything else they could do before GVDAR. GVDAR seems to be dividing GVers into those who can and those who used sneaking and avoiding combat as a crutch.
Before GVDAR these same people here in the forums were complaining that in an air combat game, for some reason, airplane drivers were dropping bombs on them for sneaking too close to their airfields. One of the complaints was airplane drivers seemed to magically know a GV was in the area back then and bombed them asap. Almost like they had GVDAR becasue they knew how to look for a GV like they still know how today. And those complaints took place with the shortened GV icon ranges.
All of these GV arguments are like dots connecting to the only thing that possibly might make you guys happy. No bases flashing in response to GV's, no arrow showing where the GV sapwn is, and no enemy GV icon of any kind. Sneaking a rear area field will only flash that base, you have to be within 10miles to get a GVDAR on your clipboard map. It's obvious to vets that flashing base is under attack by a GV. So upping with a bomb it's pretty obvious by the spawn location where to start looking. It has always been that way.
So GVDAR seems to be a stalking pony to push no icons, no flashing bases, no spawn arrow and no GV dar block. Invisible GV's roaming everywhere they want becasue otherwise it's dangerous out there.
I agree the numbers are small and getting smaller................becaus e those folks are leaving or have left the game, but that doesn't make it right
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The complaints are overwhelmingly coming from the same less than a dozen people here in the forums. The players in the arena who could always fight in a GV are still landing kills and being invisible, sneaking onto fields, and everything else they could do before GVDAR. GVDAR seems to be dividing GVers into those who can and those who used sneaking and avoiding combat as a crutch.
No Bustr...incorrect. There are a great many that complain about it while speaking in game on voice / country channel. It's a far greater issue than you try to minimize. The rest of us are simply tired of voicing a concern and it falling on deaf ears so we simply don't comment any longer. We've lost a number of players already, some specifically from our squad and more to follow. It has pissed off players to no end. Those of us still here will give it time in hopes that there will be at least some compromise as suggested through many posts already.
You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no different.
You can make whatever argument you want for one side or the other and there are arguments both ways. It would just be nice for a community to be "heard" instead of "dictated" to for a change and actually find a compromise based on community input - something all could agree to give up something but still have a sense of getting what they wanted. This is what make a game better.
:salute
Elec1
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You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no
:salute
Elec1
And years ago when running NOE mission were the norm instead of the one off on occasion, HTC lowered the Dar to the level we have now to to make it harder to hide.
Could it be the same reason we now have gv dar?
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Unless you're flying over water, you can forget about going NOE.
Coogan
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Most long term endeavors as they age past 10 years start generating new generations that think the history of the endeavor is only valid from the day they started. Then they fight any way they can to not learn from the history of the endeavor and repeat the previous mistakes as though they have just discovered something new.
In our case, the owner and creator of this endeavor has been the same owner since day1 of his putting code to media about 20 years ago. Some of us have been here from 1999-2002 and none of this is especially new our unique that the newer generation of players wants us to suffer through one more time. It's not even unique how they pick fights over it or try and skirt the rule# in their efforts to shut down anyone who disagrees with their new\old ideas.
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Most long term endeavors as they age past 10 years start generating new generations that think the history of the endeavor is only valid from the day they started. Then they fight any way they can to not learn from the history of the endeavor and repeat the previous mistakes as though they have just discovered something new.
In our case, the owner and creator of this endeavor has been the same owner since day1 of his putting code to media about 20 years ago. Some of us have been here from 1999-2002 and none of this is especially new our unique that the newer generation of players wants us to suffer through one more time. It's not even unique how they pick fights over it or try and skirt the rule# in their efforts to shut down anyone who disagrees with their new\old ideas.
Been here since 2000...took a hiatus but been here a long time.
Keep waving that flag though...
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Unless you're flying over water, you can forget about going NOE.
Coogan
As long as you pork radar, it's not bad to keep below 250. Since a front's radar is generally down, it's not that much of an indicator but for some reason people see the 80 foot dot dar height to be the death of NOE.
Wiley.
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As long as you pork radar, it's not bad to keep below 250. Since a front's radar is generally down, it's not that much of an indicator but for some reason people see the 80 foot dot dar height to be the death of NOE.
Wiley.
I'd be satisfied with half that. Just need a little wiggle room for the trees & hills.
Coogan
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Been here since 2000...took a hiatus but been here a long time.
Keep waving that flag though...
There is no flag being waved, I've never taken a break since I started here. You are fulfilling a self repeating habit for humans that no matter how long they do something, they refuse to learn from the past. And now you are try to troll just under the bleeding edge of the rule# flame.
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I'd be satisfied with half that. Just need a little wiggle room for the trees & hills.
Coogan
...Why not just have people pork the front and go in sub-250? The base is going to flash no matter what you do once you hit radar...
Wiley.
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...Why not just have people pork the front and go in sub-250? The base is going to flash no matter what you do once you hit radar...
Wiley.
I'm fine with your explanation of base radar. I'm talking more about being in transit to the enemy base.
A group in an NOE are going to create a darbar if above radar. Flying 2 sectors at almost tree level and correcting for every little hill isn't much fun. (at least for me it isn't)
Coogan
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I'm fine with your explanation of base radar. I'm talking more about being in transit to the enemy base.
A group in an NOE are going to create a darbar if above radar. Flying 2 sectors at almost tree level and correcting for every little hill isn't much fun. (at least for me it isn't)
Coogan
Personally, I think unless you're on your fifth or sixth drink/smoke of the night it's pretty easy to maintain 250' AGL over terrain that doesn't involve cliffs.
Wiley.
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There is no flag being waved, I've never taken a break since I started here. You are fulfilling a self repeating habit for humans that no matter how long they do something, they refuse to learn from the past. And now you are try to troll just under the bleeding edge of the rule# flame.
LOL - No, no trolling here. You are welcome to promote HTC however you like. We all do at some point for the things we like. As well, others speak up for the things they don't like but are shot down...hardly seems fair...especially when there are good players and good thoughts offering compromise to both sides but you and others don't see that. You see one side and one side alone.
As for self repeating habit...sorry, I'll agree to disagree with you there. Change can be good when there is input and some consensus across the isle on both sides. That may take time to get to that consensus but good public discussion can lead to positive outcomes. It might also lead to less time trying to implement something that may ultimately drive more people away versus bring more players to the game. Unfortunately the public discussion comes only after the change usually has been made.
That my friend is where history repeats itself. Maybe one could learn from that.
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Personally, I think unless you're on your fifth or sixth drink/smoke of the night it's pretty easy to maintain 250' AGL over terrain that doesn't involve cliffs.
Wiley.
Of course 250' is lol. I thought radar was lowered to like 60 or 80'
Coogan
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Of course 250' is lol. I thought radar was lowered to like 60 or 80'
Coogan
That's exactly what I'm saying. :) The 80' is for dotdar within the radar circle. Bardar is 250' everywhere.
If the field dar is porked, what you see on the map if you come in at 249' AGL is exactly the same if you were at 79' without porking the dar. The base flashes, no darbar.
The way people habitually pork dar along the entire front pretty much all the time, I don't understand why the 80' thing even affected the NOE guys.
Wiley.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. :) The 80' is for dotdar within the radar circle. Bardar is 250' everywhere.
If the field dar is porked, what you see on the map if you come in at 249' AGL is exactly the same if you were at 79' without porking the dar. The base flashes, no darbar.
The way people habitually pork dar along the entire front pretty much all the time, I don't understand why the 80' thing even affected the NOE guys.
Wiley.
Thanks for clearing that up. :aok
I thought is 80' straight across the board.
Coogan :airplane:
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Not 80, 65. Same as the carrier deck.
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Not 80, 65. Same as the carrier deck.
Thanks for the correction. All that stuck in my brain about it was "too low to fly under except on water" and I don't care to NOE much anyways.
Wiley.
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Did HTC change things? As long as I can remember, if radar is up, you need to be below 65 agl over terrain to not show dot dar in radar ring. Dar bar is shown in a sector above 200 agl over terrain whether radar is up or not.
one-eye
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How’s this for compromise?
Have GVdar pop when the GV is spotted by an opposing player.
If the spotter leaves the area and the GV moves the GVdar will only show the last known area of the GV.
If the spotter stalks the GV the dar will follow the movement of the GV until the GV is dead or the spotter loses interest and leaves the area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If the GVdar is supposed to represent information from "observers", just slow down the update rate. If the update rate was say, 3 minutes (the time it takes the beautiful resistance fighter to rider her bicycle to the hidden radio transmitter) it wouldn't be quite so easy to track the GV's movements but would still show the "last known" location of a GV on the move, or the current location of a GV hiding under a tree for 20 minutes. :D
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The guys complaining about not being able to find a fight really mean "can't find a fight where I come in with an advantage."
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No Bustr...incorrect. There are a great many that complain about it while speaking in game on voice / country channel. It's a far greater issue than you try to minimize. The rest of us are simply tired of voicing a concern and it falling on deaf ears so we simply don't comment any longer. We've lost a number of players already, some specifically from our squad and more to follow. It has pissed off players to no end. Those of us still here will give it time in hopes that there will be at least some compromise as suggested through many posts already.
You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no different.
You can make whatever argument you want for one side or the other and there are arguments both ways. It would just be nice for a community to be "heard" instead of "dictated" to for a change and actually find a compromise based on community input - something all could agree to give up something but still have a sense of getting what they wanted. This is what make a game better.
:salute
Elec1
Well said, electroman. Very well said. What a pity that no one seems inclined to listen.
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No Bustr...incorrect. There are a great many that complain about it while speaking in game on voice / country channel. It's a far greater issue than you try to minimize. The rest of us are simply tired of voicing a concern and it falling on deaf ears so we simply don't comment any longer. We've lost a number of players already, some specifically from our squad and more to follow. It has pissed off players to no end. Those of us still here will give it time in hopes that there will be at least some compromise as suggested through many posts already.
You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no different.
It's not the sneaking of bases and it's not NOE that's a problem. Folks seem to be mixing the two up with the whole GV dar thing so as to weaken the GV dar in the game. The reason GV dar is here is because GV's are really HARD to see visually now. I have over 1,200 kills in a Hurricane IID and almost all of them are GV's. I can tell you that there was a dramatic change from AH2 to AH3 graphics. Big change for me in that bird. Took me months to learn how to find tanks again and it became much tougher track and kill them. However, the era of the hiding vehicle began. It could be anywhere within 8 miles of a town, strat or field and flash it. That is a massive square mile area to search in a high intensity graphic environment. The GV dar was the compromise for the those who chose to hide. Not for those who chose to use stealth at a field or NOE for an attack. This was for the bushmen Elec. Not the scrappers like you and me. Correct me if I am wrong but my Pigs fought you and and a bunch of fellas the other night and you guys took the field and there was GV dar. We knew you were there, fought you folks for it, and yet somehow you took it. Odd huh? See you up there. :aok
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How’s this for compromise?
Have GVdar pop when the GV is spotted by an opposing player.
If the spotter leaves the area and the GV moves the GVdar will only show the last known area of the GV.
If the spotter stalks the GV the dar will follow the movement of the GV until the GV is dead or the spotter loses interest and leaves the area.
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Interesting in theory, but the devil is in the details.
How would the GV dar generator know when the opposing player has spotted the GV? It would have to be a proximity thing, and I can't count the # of times bad guys have flown right over me (pre GV dar era) and apparently never saw me, even though I was right out in the open. They just headed on out to wherever they were going and let me lay waste to the town I was after once they'd passed. Probably they were on climb-out and afk.
So you'd end up with a misleading GV dar others would see, representing a GV report that never happened.
Clever idea though.
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If a GV is hiding well, its more easy to see the GV than the icon - even within icon-range. It seems as if icons are hidden if a certain part (or some arbitrary part?) of the vehicle is concealed. Even if the hull is clearly visible (if you know where it is, after systematically checking every tree) it may still not have the billboard over its heading to announce its presence.
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It's not the sneaking of bases and it's not NOE that's a problem....The reason GV dar is here is because GV's are really HARD to see visually now. I have over 1,200 kills in a Hurricane IID and almost all of them are GV's. I can tell you that there was a dramatic change from AH2 to AH3 graphics. Big change for me in that bird. Took me months to learn how to find tanks again and it became much tougher track and kill them. However, the era of the hiding vehicle began. It could be anywhere within 8 miles of a town, strat or field and flash it. That is a massive square mile area to search in a high intensity graphic environment. The GV dar was the compromise for the those who chose to hide. Not for those who chose to use stealth at a field or NOE for an attack.
Thanks for explaining it from a GV bomber's perspective, that makes sense.
The implementation of the GV dar has had serious side effects, and many players view the cure as being much worse than the disease ever was. Several suggestions have been made on this BB how the dar could be adjusted so as to mitigate those side effects. It would be nice to know if those suggestions have been considered by HT.
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I think the dar should not include spawn areas..just so the gvs can get up and running so to speak
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You build the terrain to protect the spawn and the GV's will get up and running. I've been doing that on all of my terrains and it stopped spawn camping which I think is detestable.
I've been experimenting with micro hill texturing across flat ground to kill the spawn camping and create more of a cat and mouse aspect while trying to get at the town or field. There are numerous patterns of micro hills that can be generated to kill the usual monotonous flat ground with trees and grass approaching up to towns. The two agrarian tile sets for the Med tile set are orchards which work on hills, and crops that need flat ground. In the screen shots below I'm using the orchard tile to help protect the spawn from being camped. In the first screen shot you can see just past the town where I was testing a micro hill pattern on two sides of a 500ft deep gorge that a river is running through.
First two are from inside the terrain editor showing the spawn and the micro hills I generated around the town and airfield. You don't need to use L3DT to do this, the AH3 terrain editor has all the tools to do it in minutes. The bite in the kester to it is, no matter if you use L3DT or the terrain editor, you have to spawn and drive your assumption a few times to see the lay of the hills and how you painted trees and grass and decide if it plays well or gives one side or the other's GV's too much of an advantage.
Because those orange tree areas stop tanks and take forever to work your way through, I don't want to over use that tile. I may use it to help funnel tanks but, I listened to too many complaints inside of the arena on terrains that over used that tile around fields. One of the dangers of just quickly painting large areas to get the job done, then not really driving your creation to test for play ability. It's deceptive how long it takes to drive across a few miles of that tile which impacts GV players fun.
(https://s20.postimg.org/azhw29zcd/medtst556.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/gno6t7lp9/medtst557.jpg)
These are from inside of the offline game spawned in, you can see the micro hills which the tops have trees and the low areas between are grassy for rapid transit. This texturing can be done to slopes creating small ravines. All of this is limited by the size of the polygon used for the terrain mesh. These micro hills with trees on the tops will be a pain becasue it will favor wirbles hiding from detection while you think you have a defenseless tank to bomb or strafe. When you are on the back sides of these hills, your movements cannot be easily detected by snipers hiding on hills closer to the town or even low flying planes until the are right over the low area. And if you pull up into the trees just before they get over your position, it will PO them trying to find you.
(https://s20.postimg.org/d4293eqp9/medtst558.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/85eqov7gt/medtst559.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/85eqou4vx/medtst560.jpg)
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Thanks for explaining it from a GV bomber's perspective, that makes sense.
The implementation of the GV dar has had serious side effects, and many players view the cure as being much worse than the disease ever was. Several suggestions have been made on this BB how the dar could be adjusted so as to mitigate those side effects. It would be nice to know if those suggestions have been considered by HT.
The Hurricane IID is my choice for breaking tin cans when I am not on the ground, and it does not carry bombs. It has two 40MM AP cannons and requires close in 400-600 yard single shot steep angle kill shots for success. So you know if I cannot see them flying that close in, I am not BS'ing that there is a problem with being able to find GV's. I am rarely taller than 1k as I would not be able to track or find a GV. I am not up at 3-4k circling looking for crawling dots, I am down at Storch level without the Storch's extended view trying to find, track and kill targets. Now you know why I think the GV dar adds to the game.
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The Hurricane IID is my choice for breaking tin cans when I am not on the ground, and it does not carry bombs. It has two 40MM AP cannons and requires close in 400-600 yard single shot steep angle kill shots for success. So you know if I cannot see them flying that close in, I am not BS'ing that there is a problem with being able to find GV's. I am rarely taller than 1k as I would not be able to track or find a GV. I am not up at 3-4k circling looking for crawling dots, I am down at Storch level without the Storch's extended view trying to find, track and kill targets. Now you know why I think the GV dar adds to the game.
It certainly adds to the game for you and people like you. It equally certainly detracts from the game for me and people like me.
My initial faith has faded into a sort of despairing, wistful hope; but I am hoping HT figures out a middle ground that is satisfactory to nearly all.
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but I am hoping HT figures out a middle ground that is satisfactory to nearly all.
Too bad for you that you don't realize that the GV dar IS the middle ground. Accept this at the truth that it is and move on.
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So, how many people open the CM and stare at it hoping for a GVdar?
Just curious, for me, I have it turned on but there are so many “big picture” events happening that I don’t really notice it. The same goes for the sector allied/foe bars.
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I've had no problems driving a GV onto base, deacking it, taking out the VH and ord, and camping the base for 20 minutes while someone else pounds town. This is with GV dar
No way you do that in peak hours
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No way you do that in peak hours
Done it multiple times during peak hours. Actually sat on one base long enough to be resupped, take down the VH 3x, and deack the base twice waiting for support. Really not hard at all.