Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Doc4 on September 25, 2018, 10:03:00 PM
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For the love of God and everything holy can you please do something different for ENY. This subject has come up so many times on this forum it is not even funny. Many good ideas have been presented over the years I have read this forum, but nothing has been done by the management. With low numbers it is really starting to piss me off that I can’t even fly a plane rated 20 ENY much less any of the late war good planes that are there. Please reconsider your position on this topic. This is the third night in a row when I am logging off early because I don’t want to play with crap. It is not that I can’t but it is simply not fun getting run away from. Too many more of these nights may doom my need for this game....Not paying money every month just to take part in FSO. Which quite frankly has sucked lately due to low turn out.
I really do want this game to survive.
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If eny is affecting you that much, then you are likely having to fight 5 friendlies just to score a kill.
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If eny is affecting you that much, then you are likely having to fight 5 friendlies just to score a kill.
Not.
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For the love of God and everything holy can you please do something different for ENY. This subject has come up so many times on this forum it is not even funny. Many good ideas have been presented over the years I have read this forum, but nothing has been done by the management. With low numbers it is really starting to piss me off that I can’t even fly a plane rated 20 ENY much less any of the late war good planes that are there. Please reconsider your position on this topic. This is the third night in a row when I am logging off early because I don’t want to play with crap. It is not that I can’t but it is simply not fun getting run away from. Too many more of these nights may doom my need for this game....Not paying money every month just to take part in FSO. Which quite frankly has sucked lately due to low turn out.
I really do want this game to survive.
+10000000000000000000
At this point all it is is a PITA that makes people logoff.
If this isn't gonna’ change then something else has to. Heck, instead of limiting plane choices just harden the objectives for balance. Downtimes or damage or fuel load or ords. Lock out (frontline?) bases that those planes can roll from. Perk it. Something. But let people fly what they want.
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ENY is a great idea. The problem is it simply stops people from having fun in their ride of choice. When that happens enough they move on
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ENY is a great idea. The problem is it simply stops people from having fun in their ride of choice. When that happens enough they move on
ENY would work much better in a two country war.
With three countries, you can be ENY restricted but outnumbered in battle if the two low number countries are only attacking yours.
With two countries, you may be either outnumbered OR you have ENY restrictions. Never both at the same time.
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ENY does need to go. I agree with 3 countries it not working. I would like to go to 2 countries because it would mean they are fighting us and we are fighting them and not they are fighting each other now what do we do. Its a great game and I really enjoy playing it.
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Eny hurts those that won't or can't learn to have fun in something other than the top tier planes.
Get out of the comfort zone and fly something other than then 51d or switch sides so you can.
Before you know it you'll be kicking butt in older planes.
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Eny hurts those that won't or can't learn to have fun in something other than the top tier planes.
Get out of the comfort zone and fly something other than then 51d or switch sides so you can.
Before you know it you'll be kicking butt in older planes.
:aok :cheers:
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Eny hurts those that won't or can't learn to have fun in something other than the top tier planes.
Get out of the comfort zone and fly something other than then 51d or switch sides so you can.
Before you know it you'll be kicking butt in older planes.
Hey!!!...........where's the "like button"?
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So you're so weak in ACMs other than boom and zoom that you can't fly anything but an uber later war plane.
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My experience:
The worst ENY that I came across was 30ENY with only our non - uncapturable bases left and our strats were at 0%.
At that point, the country is just waiting to die for the next map. There was nothing to do or be on someone's kill list.
There is major discrepancies between plane era's and that's a fact. Its not fun when you log on and find yourself in this major disadvantage. I simply log off.
:salute
27th
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Eny hurts those that won't or can't learn to have fun in something other than the top tier planes.
Get out of the comfort zone and fly something other than then 51d or switch sides so you can.
Before you know it you'll be kicking butt in older planes.
Wrong.
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My experience:
The worst ENY that I came across was 30ENY with only our non - uncapturable bases left and our strats were at 0%.
At that point, the country is just waiting to die for the next map. There was nothing to do or be on someone's kill list.
There is major discrepancies between plane era's and that's a fact. Its not fun when you log on and find yourself in this major disadvantage. I simply log off.
:salute
27th
I can and have taken out Ki 84s, and later era planes in a Hurricane 1. I regularly fly the 110 G2 against ANYTHING, including Zekes and Ki 43s. One of my all time favorite fights was against Griff(Remember him?) in his Ki 43 against my 110 G2 in the AH2 DA. He only BARELY beat me after an almost 10 minute fight.
Don't cry to me about ENY, if it bothers you, you're a wuss who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
#Whiners gonna Whine
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I can and have taken out Ki 84s, and later era planes in a Hurricane 1. I regularly fly the 110 G2 against ANYTHING, including Zekes and Ki 43s. One of my all time favorite fights was against Griff(Remember him?) in his Ki 43 against my 110 G2 in the AH2 DA. He only BARELY beat me after an almost 10 minute fight.
Don't cry to me about ENY, if it bothers you, you're a wuss who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
#Whiners gonna Whine
Okay. You’ve convinced me.
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ENY would work much better in a two country war.
With three countries, you can be ENY restricted but outnumbered in battle if the two low number countries are only attacking yours.
With two countries, you may be either outnumbered OR you have ENY restrictions. Never both at the same time.
ENY does need to go. I agree with 3 countries it not working. I would like to go to 2 countries because it would mean they are fighting us and we are fighting them and not they are fighting each other now what do we do. Its a great game and I really enjoy playing it.
Bingo.
At a minimum it needs a tweak. Zone-based ENY perhaps?
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Okay. You’ve convinced me.
I know you for being a quite capable flyer. I don't understand why you go for the easiest types of kills with an "uber" plane.
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109G14s and G2s are great for this if it happens.
I learned that ENY capping really hurts the Jabo pilots. If you are trying to take a base from a CV, with a high ENY, and they so much as put up a little resistance. It's extremely hard to take down the base with 1 500 pound bomb from a 30 eny plane.
IMO, I think it should just cost you perk points to fly higher eny planes if the #s are skewed. We need more reasons to use perks and this would allow the "I only want to fly one plane" crowd to fly what they wish, as long as they have earned the perks!
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So next we'll hear "I WANNA BUY PERKS!!" and we have pay to win. ENY has a purpose, if people don't want to switch sides they must pay the price. You can't have the most people AND get to fly to top planes, too. The game is already way too lopsided towards one specific, unnamed, country that very frequently has more people than the other two sides combined.
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I know you for being a quite capable flyer. I don't understand why you go for the easiest types of kills with an "uber" plane.
Well, all I can say is thank you for the compliment, sir. :salute
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ENY would work much better in a two country war.
With three countries, you can be ENY restricted but outnumbered in battle if the two low number countries are only attacking yours.
With two countries, you may be either outnumbered OR you have ENY restrictions. Never both at the same time.
THIS :salute It IS EXACTLY the condition that was experienced when OP had issue with. I was there at same TIME and Place. 32.5 eny defending against Tempests 2, 262,1 3 P47-m and La-7 2 and assorted other Mid range ENY(but still BOSS) rides and Tanks. The ENY for the vehicles was a BIG PART of the complaint. Vehicles were SEVERELY hampered against Tiger 1 and Panther that was camping field at this time. In totality...just too much of a hurdle :uhoh
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1stPar, if your side had that big a numbers advantage that you had that ENY, AND you wanted perk rides, that's not a very good way to say ENY doesn't work. Your point proves that it does work, EXACTLY how it's supposed. That you don't like it is no reason to change it.
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1stPar, if your side had that big a numbers advantage that you had that ENY, AND you wanted perk rides, that's not a very good way to say ENY doesn't work. Your point proves that it does work, EXACTLY how it's supposed. That you don't like it is no reason to change it.
Never said I WANTED or OP wanted PERK RIDES. It was more a WANT TO "BE at LEAST competitive". I had ZERO problem at SAME BASE and TIME. I was able to get an WIRB just at right time. I dont use PERK rides GV or otherwise. M16 vs Wirb...Sure I prefer Wirb...but M16 is fine. That being said I fully understand when A Panther or TigerII is camping a field and you cant even get a Panzer H...its not much fun....FOR OTHERS. I am NOT a ME ME ME player...but I try to understand others views...that was what I was doing. :uhoh On both FRONTS this was same issue. I am sure it worked AS PRESCRIBED, it was just the DOUBLE WHAMMY of 2 front and 32.5 ENY that made the issue stand out STARKLY. It only lasted for an hour or so...I kept playing my "GAME" just fine...BUT I CAN NOT discount the feelings of countrymen who this hampered THEIR GAME PLAY :uhoh It was also in usual PEAK time EST....7:30PM, maybe it was just a shock at this time? Not many players would expect to see this, when first logging into the MA. On this note...I feel that ENY as is DOES EFFECT the Gv game way more than the AIR game. I am just fine with a 30 ENY plane in THIS SITUATION....but the disadvantage the AVAILABLE HIGH ENY gvs are MUCH MORE at a disadvantage. It seems the disadvantages for GVs is more adverse..its Armament, Armour and other short comings CAN NOT be countered by PLAYER SKILL like in Aircraft?
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the eny thing is crap. espically in case where like this am it was 18 to 12, both nit and rook attacking bish and we had 12 eny. and like what was said all you have are las spit 16s and 190ds flying over head. you up from a back field and have to chase three back to the ack. there are multiple ways of correcting eny but the creators are stuck in a tunnel on how things will not work.
first three countries at this point is DUMB. when numbers are not here to barely support two teams 70% of the day then we are gonna spread them out even worse over three countries.
side switch at 6 hrs is DUMB. there are many times I would switch for eny purposes (more because I like to fight) but you switch and 20 mins later you are either twiddling your thumbs as there is no one to fight or an hour later your saddled with eny again.
also what is the formula for eny? I watch it and at times in the am the bish will have 3 players more than other side and we have lets say 12 eny and they have 3 eny? I am no mathematician but this certainly doesn't seem to add up to me at all.
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the eny thing is crap. espically in case where like this am it was 18 to 12, both nit and rook attacking bish and we had 12 eny. and like what was said all you have are las spit 16s and 190ds flying over head. you up from a back field and have to chase three back to the ack. there are multiple ways of correcting eny but the creators are stuck in a tunnel on how things will not work.
first three countries at this point is DUMB. when numbers are not here to barely support two teams 70% of the day then we are gonna spread them out even worse over three countries.
side switch at 6 hrs is DUMB. there are many times I would switch for eny purposes (more because I like to fight) but you switch and 20 mins later you are either twiddling your thumbs as there is no one to fight or an hour later your saddled with eny again.
also what is the formula for eny? I watch it and at times in the am the bish will have 3 players more than other side and we have lets say 12 eny and they have 3 eny? I am no mathematician but this certainly doesn't seem to add up to me at all.
This explains my experience with it as well. You lay out the case perfectly.
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When it comes to lower #s. The map is the most important thing. Smaller maps thats allow for all 3 teams to meet around the middle make for better fights for all teams. this doesn't have to be just a FT either. If one team has to fly a couple of sectors to the fight. That's not Soo bad, and still better than flying 8 sectors to a fight.
Side switch time with lower #s should also be reduced. lower #s means more need to switch to balance the fights.
A 3 hour time switch rule makes a lot more sense these days in AH.
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Like Yipi stated, 2 teams with 20 players each and the third with 35. The team with 35 could be engaged by all 40 player from both the other teams. also I thought the reason for ENY was to level the playing field and encourage players to switch to the weaker side. For the most part, It doesn't seem to make players do anything, but log off. It doesn't really matter to Me except for the Wirb. Increasing the ENY value on that would be nicer. I use early and midwar planes and gvs. It seems that no matter the ENY, the T34/76 is still the most popular tank. to Me It is a taste of what many forces in WW2 had to deal with. That is the shortage of good equipment. Which makes teamwork all the more important "like having a wingman and using formation tactics for tanks". Anyway maybe an adjustment of ENY and put a perk value on some planes and GVs so players could have access to more of Them when ENY gets lopsided. Have a blast.
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Like Yipi stated, 2 teams with 20 players each and the third with 35. The team with 35 could be engaged by all 40 player from both the other teams. also I thought the reason for ENY was to level the playing field and encourage players to switch to the weaker side. For the most part, It doesn't seem to make players do anything, but log off. It doesn't really matter to Me except for the Wirb. Increasing the ENY value on that would be nicer. I use early and midwar planes and gvs. It seems that no matter the ENY, the T34/76 is still the most popular tank. to Me It is a taste of what many forces in WW2 had to deal with. That is the shortage of good equipment. Which makes teamwork all the more important "like having a wingman and using formation tactics for tanks". Anyway maybe an adjustment of ENY and put a perk value on some planes and GVs so players could have access to more of Them when ENY gets lopsided. Have a blast.
And logoffs are the last thing we need right now. +1
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What about one team with 24, one with 40, and the other with 58?
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I think it would make more sense to have separate ENY values for each front.
I'm starting to wonder if there really is a cult of ENY and if so I would like to join it just so I can understand how ENY is supposed to actually work.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhy4ch1DSdnaiXXnXFYOHSUrVdfdiIX3QvTNRG6o3urda__SHn)
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What about one team with 24, one with 40, and the other with 58?
What about two teams with 68 vs. 58?
Problem solved.
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Maybe have eny values determined by take off field proximity to closest enemy population. Sounds difficult.
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Maybe have eny values determined by take off field proximity to closest enemy population. Sounds difficult.
This is something that needs to be looked at.
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I can and have taken out Ki 84s, and later era planes in a Hurricane 1. I regularly fly the 110 G2 against ANYTHING, including Zekes and Ki 43s. One of my all time favorite fights was against Griff(Remember him?) in his Ki 43 against my 110 G2 in the AH2 DA. He only BARELY beat me after an almost 10 minute fight.
Don't cry to me about ENY, if it bothers you, you're a wuss who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
#Whiners gonna Whine
Comparing your experience in a Dueling Arena to the experience into the Main Arena is comical. Thank you. Knowing you that you have decent gun package on-hand, fighting something you most likely HO is very amusing. I did chuckle.
Your point for disagreeing since the initial post by Doc4 has been noted many times. There is no need to be obnoxious about every post you see. It's just me telling everyone about my experience of ENY and my opinion on it.
"Don't cry to me about ENY, if it bothers you, you're a wuss who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
#Whiners gonna Whine"
Please stop giving me images of you demanding more pop tarts to someone from your basetment because you're being a badass on the forums.
:salute
27th
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For the love of God and everything holy can you please do something different for ENY. This subject has come up so many times on this forum it is not even funny. Many good ideas have been presented over the years I have read this forum, but nothing has been done by the management. With low numbers it is really starting to piss me off that I can’t even fly a plane rated 20 ENY much less any of the late war good planes that are there. Please reconsider your position on this topic. This is the third night in a row when I am logging off early because I don’t want to play with crap. It is not that I can’t but it is simply not fun getting run away from. Too many more of these nights may doom my need for this game....Not paying money every month just to take part in FSO. Which quite frankly has sucked lately due to low turn out.
I really do want this game to survive.
Hording is worse for the game than eny. You can solve eny by switching sides. Theres nothing you can do to stop the horde from snowballing.... other than up a 262 and go goon hunting
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Hording is worse for the game than eny. You can solve eny by switching sides. Theres nothing you can do to stop the horde from snowballing.... other than up a 262 and go goon hunting
Haaaaaaahaaaaa this is the kettle. Lol
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What about two teams with 68 vs. 58?
Problem solved.
Yep. :aok
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other than up a 262 and go goon hunting
Only if goons were still relevant. M3-hunting in a 262 is quite a different thing than goon hunting.
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Haaaaaaahaaaaa this is the kettle. Lol
Im not the one whining about eny because i want to fly a spit16.
The eny is currently the best countermeasure to the horde mentality.
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Only if goons were still relevant. M3-hunting in a 262 is quite a different thing than goon hunting.
Good point. A mix of detached bases and spawnable ones is ideal.
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Hording is worse for the game than eny.
Agreed. Especially hording in late war planes.
- oldman
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Im not the one whining about eny because i want to fly a spit16.
The eny is currently the best countermeasure to the horde mentality.
No, it's not. All it does is cause the people fighting a horde to be outnumbered *AND* outgunned, like we were tonight. Fighting too full dar bars of enemy planes with a handful of guys and we had ENY.
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Im not the one whining about eny because i want to fly a spit16.
The eny is currently the best countermeasure to the horde mentality.
No it’s not. It promotes way less fighting as in the fact every one grabs a gv when eny gets sacked liked it does. So you get 15 bish in gvs and 45 nit rooms chasing the 4 guys on the bish that upped to try to find a fight. Or you get guys like me that very rarely will log on in the weekend realm do to the lopsided double team of guys in 190s and 51s and tempts that can easily run to the horde and leads you to your death.
I can easily up a spit 9 and do the same as with a spit 16.
I can understand eny on bombers. The rest is killing the game. There are a few that have ATLASED the art of picking in a horde and would rather fight the green guys harder for a kill then fighting the red guy for a kill. But not everyone chasing that #1 spot
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Disagree. Hoarding is gonna happen regardless. Double teaming will happen as well. Cant stop that but it evens out for the most part. ENY helps control it from getting too stupid.
This morning eny is the only thing that prevented the joker horde from getting too out of hand and actuallt made for some fun fights.
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No, it's not. All it does is cause the people fighting a horde to be outnumbered *AND* outgunned, like we were tonight. Fighting too full dar bars of enemy planes with a handful of guys and we had ENY.
Two not too. :bhead
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ENY is a great idea. The problem is it simply stops people from having fun in their ride of choice. When that happens enough they move on
ENY is a great idea? :rofl
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Disagree. Hoarding is gonna happen regardless. Double teaming will happen as well. Cant stop that but it evens out for the most part. ENY helps control it from getting too stupid.
This morning eny is the only thing that prevented the joker horde from getting too out of hand and actuallt made for some fun fights.
yes the double team is very apparent in this game. so how does that help lets say there 25 bish on and 15 each of the others. lets say we get sacked with 10 eny. well now its 12.5 to 15 while being sacked with eny? how does that help, it don't like I said every one runs to gvs instead, no spawn get in a man gun or log off. the only ones that seem to prevail or profit is the guys that have played a while and are able to stay on top of the fight and pick and vulch in those situations.
now before this stupid "change countries" for eny purposes. what does that help in the scenario above? lessens the eny by hair but adds yet another person banging on one side.
maybe there is no fixing it? maybe the creator of the game does not want to fix it? but I can tell you that the couple years I have been here I have seen no growth in the game. only a steadily decline of the numbers and the fighters that were in the game while other games seem to strive and grow by numbers every day. I guess I am the minority here as I really care less about wining a map as much as having an 8 min fight with a con you run across in a open field and no matter how the out come, who doesn't make you chase him to the field ack or several of his friends. those are rare, very rare in here.
and again as said some where else I under stand nerfing bombers on eny but killing planes is killing the game for many. along with the horde mentality and the stupid huge boats they have added (again another tool to hide in guns and no fight).
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Typically its the undermanned country that gets double teamed... as much as it sucks being the country with the most players with eny (usually close to winning the map and therefore encountering more resistance), its much worse when you are the undermanned country getting double teamed. Removing ENY will only increase the temptation to rape the undermanned country.
Your example occurs far less frequently that the low sided country being hoarded. There are still plenty of very good 15+ eny planes to choose from. 51b, 38j, 109g14, 109a5 etc.
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ENY has been whined over since it was instituted as a mechanic to give outnumbered sides less of a disadvantage practically since the game began. While it is regrettable that the code cannot practically deal with players that tower sit while their side enjoys numerical superiority, I'll never completely understand players who will stubbornly refuse to either switch sides or fly one of the many early or mid war planes that can still manage to win a fight against a late war plane when flown skillfully (especially when those planes have, again, numerical superiority). Those options don't exist just to hair-lip ya'll. Besides .... it's been revealed that HT coded it to disable when numbers are low.
I'm not seeing a valid complaint but that doesn't mean said complaint won't be played like a broken record for all the days of AH.
Guess we all have our own 'boredom habits.' :old:
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ENY has been whined over since it was instituted as a mechanic to give outnumbered sides less of a disadvantage practically since the game began. While it is regrettable that the code cannot practically deal with players that tower sit while their side enjoys numerical superiority, I'll never completely understand players who will stubbornly refuse to either switch sides of fly one of the many early or mid war planes that can still manage to win a fight against a late war plane when flown skillfully (especially when those planes have, again, numerical superiority). Those options don't exist just to hair-lip ya'll. Besides .... it's been revealed that HT coded it to disable when numbers are low.
I'm not seeing a valid complaint but that doesn't mean said complaint won't be played like a broken record for all the days of AH.
Guess we all have our own 'boredom habits.' :old:
You don't understand it because you are refusing to listen to the arguments.
I would side switch plenty--I even had "shades" so I could do it--but not to get stuck on the wrong side for six hours when things swing. Side switching timers work in opposition to ENY.
I'll never completely understand players who will stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this point.
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You don't understand it because you are refusing to listen to the arguments.
That appears to be an oddly presumptive and quite counter-intuitive statement. I've listened to this argument since long before you played AH and, again, it has no true substance.
I'll never completely understand players who will stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this point.
Pardon me but there first has to be a valid point worth acknowledging.
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That appears to be an oddly presumptive and quite counter-intuitive statement. I've listened to this argument since long before you played AH and, again, it has no true substance.
Pardon me but there first has to be a valid point worth acknowledging.
You have no idea how long I've played AH (or any other game like this).
Once again you are intentionally avoiding the issues raised. I made the point. You swatted it aside with an ad hominem. *THAT* is why you'll never understand.
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No, it's not. All it does is cause the people fighting a horde to be outnumbered *AND* outgunned, like we were tonight. Fighting too full dar bars of enemy planes with a handful of guys and we had ENY.
up a 26 a sector back, fly in at about 8k and shred them as the try to jump you. that seems to ease the pressure on those trying to get airborne.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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up a 26 a sector back, fly in at about 8k and shred them as the try to jump you. that seems to ease the pressure on those trying to get airborne.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A Deuce or a B-26?
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B-26
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Once again you are intentionally avoiding the issues raised. I made the point. You swatted it aside with an ad hominem. *THAT* is why you'll never understand.
(Edited out distractions or excuses for)
Everything I've stated has legs to stand on. This complaint is practically as old as the game. It is comprised of three parts: 'I don't want to switch sides', 'I don't want to fly anything other than my favorite late war plane(s)', and 'This is completely unworkable with low numbers.' The last argument was rendered moot by HT. The other two arguments are merely complete stubbornness.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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A lot of the perceived "double teaming" is simply perception.
Next time someone says "double teaming" they should first check the stats to see if an enemy switched to attacking your team because they already have 20% of the other enemy territory.
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See Rule #4
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A lot of the perceived "double teaming" is simply perception.
Next time someone says "double teaming" they should first check the stats to see if an enemy switched to attacking your team because they already have 20% of the other enemy territory.
The reason for it is irrelevant.
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A lot of the perceived "double teaming" is simply perception.
Next time someone says "double teaming" they should first check the stats to see if an enemy switched to attacking your team because they already have 20% of the other enemy territory.
When was the last time you played?
I have seen many time were a team owns 35%+ of an oppsing's team base and they STILL continue to hit them. The game has become grab all the bases you can the easiest way you can. That means you rarely see players fight for a base.
Thats what all these complaints are about, the lack of fights these days. More and more players running to ack, or just running. More and more players bailing from buffs so they dont have to defend themselves. More and more players sitting in a GV or a gun for hours on end to get proxies. The common fact here is all of it avoids fighting.
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It is comprised of three parts: 'I don't want to switch sides', 'I don't want to fly anything other than my favorite late war plane(s)', and 'This is completely unworkable with low numbers.' The last argument was rendered moot by HT. The other two arguments are merely complete stubbornness.
- it's not that I won't or can't fly a high ENY plane. It's that I enjoy it less, to the point I would rather go do something else.
- it's not that I won't change sides, it's just that I don't want to commit to 6 hours on that side.
[li]ENY was active the other day with 5 to 7 a side. I will fish out the screen shot when I get home in 10 days. Not sure what you think but I call that low numbers.
[/li][/list]
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The only rational argument I'm seeing in that is the abolition of map-winning and I find that potentially disastrous, considering the players that make that a priority. Never-the-less, what possible device could be employed to promote balance/even fights more so than ENY without causing an equally hard-voiced complaint against some other perceived wrong (ie: unlimited side switch would cause spying complaints to increase - though some have admitted to shade accounts already).
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When was the last time you played?
I have seen many time were a team owns 35%+ of an oppsing's team base and they STILL continue to hit them. The game has become grab all the bases you can the easiest way you can. That means you rarely see players fight for a base.
Thats what all these complaints are about, the lack of fights these days. More and more players running to ack, or just running. More and more players bailing from buffs so they dont have to defend themselves. More and more players sitting in a GV or a gun for hours on end to get proxies. The common fact here is all of it avoids fighting.
I know that happens.
So the bish get 23% of knight territory and switch focus to the rooks.
The knights who have been attacking the rooks will still be attacking the rooks regardless of what the bish do.
Now you have bish also attacking the rooks.
Yes, two sides are attacking but it's not really a pre-meditated double team but rather what is needed to win the map.
The knights who were defending against the bish are now free and likely not interested in stirring them up so some attack the rooks.
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The only rational argument I'm seeing in that is the abolition of map-winning and I find that potentially disastrous, considering the players that make that a priority. Never-the-less, what possible device could be employed to promote balance/even fights more so than ENY without causing an equally hard-voiced complaint against some other perceived wrong (ie: unlimited side switch would cause spying complaints to increase - though some have admitted to shade accounts already).
Why would you jump to " abolition of map-winning"??????
All people are looking for is a way for more fights to happen. In the case of FESS's post, maybe auto tune the side switch time.
20 or less players NO ENY, and 1 hour switch times.
Once the total players count hits 50, ENY is still out but switch time moves up to 2 hours.
100 players, ENY is back on and switch time is 3 hours.
200 players and ENY is on and switch time is back to 6 hours.
Players can still fight the war, but those inclined can switch with out effecting ENY and STILL find a fight. Once the numbers start climbing you get players back to thinking about switching and then when ENY kicks back in players arent jumping back and forth and so ENY isnt bouncing all over the place.
Tweak CAN BE MADE IF management wants to.
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A lot of the perceived "double teaming" is simply perception.
Next time someone says "double teaming" they should first check the stats to see if an enemy switched to attacking your team because they already have 20% of the other enemy territory.
many many times a team has lost more than 20% of there to fields to opposing team and don't even try to fight back for it. it is the herd horde mentality in the game. they continually attack a front that is non productive for the game other than kill score.
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Why would you jump to " abolition of map-winning"??????
All people are looking for is a way for more fights to happen. In the case of FESS's post, maybe auto tune the side switch time.
20 or less players NO ENY, and 1 hour switch times.
Once the total players count hits 50, ENY is still out but switch time moves up to 2 hours.
100 players, ENY is back on and switch time is 3 hours.
200 players and ENY is on and switch time is back to 6 hours.
Players can still fight the war, but those inclined can switch with out effecting ENY and STILL find a fight. Once the numbers start climbing you get players back to thinking about switching and then when ENY kicks back in players arent jumping back and forth and so ENY isnt bouncing all over the place.
Tweak CAN BE MADE IF management wants to.
Fugi the issue with that statement is "fighters" there is not a lot left in the game. lot of pickers, lot of horders (also score tards fall in this catergory). I cant remember the last time I ran into a plane 1v1 and had a clean decent fight. and you cant go straight to the spit 16 thing cause I fly in the am when bish average a 15 eny and yes even other spits dart to the ground and run when approached by another spit. the "fighter" is a minority now in this game and doubt any changes will ever be affected for the "fighter".
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(Edited out distractions or excuses for)
Everything I've stated has legs to stand on. This complaint is practically as old as the game. It is comprised of three parts: 'I don't want to switch sides', 'I don't want to fly anything other than my favorite late war plane(s)', and 'This is completely unworkable with low numbers.' The last argument was rendered moot by HT. The other two arguments are merely complete stubbornness.
it's easy to understand the complaint. I like to play 109 K4. I have relationship with that plane. I log on and I can't fly it because there are not enough Bish on. [notice I didn't say too many knights. Because we should be punishing large numbers of players]. Now I have to switch to Bish and leave my team mates. So my choice fly with team mates OR the fly the plane I want. And if I switch, I'm stuck there for 6 hours. [I thought it was 12]
Not an impossible choice....but what is the benefit of the choice? understanding the benefit of ENY is not easy for anyone to see.
To ease the pain, perhaps there should be no time limit for switching to the country with less players. then if in 1 hour 50 Bish log on, instead of being stuck on bish due to the switchback timer, it would let me leave if the team I'm switching back to has fewer players. For some hysteresis, make the player differential something big enough so you can't switch every 5 minutes when the numbers flip by or 2.
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I've seen team mates switch together (from the perspective of being part of that dynamic,even). It doesn't take all that much effort or coordination if nobody on the team has recently switched (and, quite frankly, squad-mates don't tend to unless the squad elects to - on squad nights, at least). I've seen large squads partially switch and then fight each other. This isn't a new idea but it is actually a pretty decent one. It places no unreasonable demand on the game designer to make a major change in code, it leaves a switch time limit to mollify the spy paranoiacs, it encourages players to move around and meet their occasional or even regular opponents (giving a bit more perspective).
The best part is the group can indeed re-group (if split) or change to their original side (or even yet a different side) in another six hours. Granted, few squads stay on a straight six hours now like some did in the 'grand old days' (squads have shrunk, many of us have gotten older, meaning players who started the game as kids probably now have jobs and/or their own kids - players who started out older .... are even older and stamina/endurance may not be what it used to be). That still means when everyone logs back on together they can reassess and react accordingly.
It comes down to priorities. If a player (or group) refuses to be flexible enough and just MUST have access to all rides no matter how much their side has a numerical advantage (or they have that peculiar 'chess piece loyalty' fetish) then it isn't really a 'broken design' they are complaining about. Sure, it's a game ... but even games may mimic life and you can't please everyone all of the time.
(P.S. If a player or group just can't stand that option, there's always the AvA. I spent years promoting that place and would still love to see others fall in love with it. And, of course, there's the best part of AH, IMHO .... events.) :D
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I've seen team mates switch together (from the perspective of being part of that dynamic,even). It doesn't take all that much effort or coordination if nobody on the team has recently switched (and, quite frankly, squad-mates don't tend to unless the squad elects to - on squad nights, at least). I've seen large squads partially switch and then fight each other. This isn't a new idea but it is actually a pretty decent one. It places no unreasonable demand on the game designer to make a major change in code, it leaves a switch time limit to mollify the spy paranoiacs, it encourages players to move around and meet their occasional or even regular opponents (giving a bit more perspective).
The best part is the group can indeed re-group (if split) or change to their original side (or even yet a different side) in another six hours. Granted, few squads stay on a straight six hours now like some did in the 'grand old days' (squads have shrunk, many of us have gotten older, meaning players who started the game as kids probably now have jobs and/or their own kids - players who started out older .... are even older and stamina/endurance may not be what it used to be). That still means when everyone logs back on together they can reassess and react accordingly.
It comes down to priorities. If a player (or group) refuses to be flexible enough and just MUST have access to all rides no matter how much their side has a numerical advantage (or they have that peculiar 'chess piece loyalty' fetish) then it isn't really a 'broken design' they are complaining about. Sure, it's a game ... but even games may mimic life and you can't please everyone all of the time.
(P.S. If a player or group just can't stand that option, there's always the AvA. I spent years promoting that place and would still love to see others fall in love with it. And, of course, there's the best part of AH, IMHO .... events.) :D
Arlo, you just keep defending complicated work-arounds, but fail to explain your support for limiting plane choices?
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1st- I've been playing for 10 years and for the last 5 at least people been whining about ENY-if HiTech was gonna change ENY he would have done so my now. Pony "D"'s and LA-7's are not the only planes you can BnZ and pick with. you're BnZ comes from altitude, take almost any plane up to 15-20k and you can pick with it, Uberhags and X15 had a lot of kills in the P40-C the last tour, proves that point, quit being a spoiled brat and try flying a different plane.
2nd- how many times do you all have to be told that HiTech said there will not be a 2 country war. but lets just say he did at least try it, what will happen next is people will start crying the maps are to big for just 2 countries, they already cry the maps are to big for our currant population. so with a 2 country war all the maps would have to be changed.
3rd-and this already happens-most people will go to 1 side so they can have an large advantage over the other country, so they can up their kill count, so 1 side can gang the other side, the what will happen is people will start hollering they want the 3 country war back. AH Players will never be satisfied with what they have so they might as well leave the game as it is-with the occasional up dates, the players bickering with each other-certain players need to watch their mouth-quit cussing and calling people names because they got shot down,or some how killed.
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Arlo, you just keep defending complicated work-arounds, but fail to explain your support for limiting plane choices?
I'm sorry if my understanding HT's ENY as a mechanic to give outnumbered sides less of a disadvantage seemed confusing. Every post I've made on the subject has been supportive of that element of design. As far as 'complicated work-arounds' are concerned, where did you see one? I posted about players not letting their own emotional or mental complications get in the way of enjoying a good game, as designed. There have been very few design tweaks recommended by players that I have found compelling (Fugi recently posted one). So if you're mistaking my continued support of ENY as something radical or a 'solution to a game design problem' that is incomplete, somehow - please don't. I don't perceive the game as a problem, in that regard. There are players, however, that appear to insist on having one.
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- The maps are too big for three countries, not for two.
- You’re diluting the players dividing them by three.
- People will switch for balance and ENY will actually work as intended with two sides.
Just my opinion. Don’t shoot me.
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In theory, a two sided "war" would eliminate, for the most part, the need for ENY.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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In theory, a two sided "war" would eliminate, for the most part, the need for ENY.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It would IF people switch for balance. That is usually not a problem. Some around here seem to think everyone will join one side and roll bases against token resistance. If that happened then ENY might help.
Frankly, I think players will switch just like we did in WBs to keep a balance.
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- People will switch for balance and ENY will actually work as intended with two sides.
This hypothesis appears to lack foundation. Why do you think players who work so hard to invent reasons not to switch in the three-sided MA will suddenly see their reasons evaporate when playing a two sided game? I've seen events (that were meticulously designed to be even) become woefully one sided simply because players decided to make it so.
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This hypothesis appears to lack foundation. Why do you think players who work so hard to invent reasons not to switch in the three-sided MA will suddenly see their reasons evaporate when playing a two sided game? I've seen events (that were meticulously designed to be even) become woefully one sided simply because players decided to make it so.
The things that make ENY and the side switch timer a cluster are mitigated with two sides—so long as the switch time is reasonable, i.e. NOT six hours.
From this end user’s stand point three sides, long switch times, and ENY are not helping things as they exist currently.
I flew in WBs for YEARS with two sides. All this the-sky-will-fall panic about uneven sides and the like never happened.
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The things that make ENY and the side switch timer a cluster are mitigated with two sides—so long as the switch time is reasonable, i.e. NOT six hours.
From this end user’s stand point three sides, long switch times, and ENY are not helping things as they exist currently.
I flew in WBs for YEARS with two sides. All this the-sky-will-fall panic about uneven sides and the like never happened.
Your years of valuable WB experience is noted (as is HT's).
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Your years of valuable WB experience is noted (as is HT's).
I was there more recently than he was. And I’m an end user, not a developer. The perspectives are different.
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Frankly, I think players will switch just like we did in WBs to keep a balance.
What was that weekly thing they had a few years ago, where people would gang up and horde the map? There was a name for it. I believe it was one of the reasons for implementing ENY.
- oldman
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I was there more recently than he was. And I’m an end user, not a developer. The perspectives are different.
HT has always played the games he develops. He developed AH as a result of experiences in both AW and WB. Perspective.
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HT has always played the games he develops. He developed AH as a result of experiences in both AW and WB. Perspective.
He doesn’t play it anywhere near what we do.
Programming is an intensive endeavor. I’ve seen him at work. Busy busy busy.
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What was that weekly thing they had a few years ago, where people would gang up and horde the map? There was a name for it. I believe it was one of the reasons for implementing ENY.
- oldman
I missed that one. But if they wanna horde bad enough let them. They can do it in Storches and Goons.
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He doesn’t play it anywhere near what we do.
Programming is an intensive endeavor. I’ve seen him at work. Busy busy busy.
Not observing leverage for you seeing things more clearly than HT at this moment.
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Not observing leverage for you seeing things more clearly than HT at this moment.
Don’t really care either way on that issue.
Common sense is on my side here.
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Don’t really care either way.
Common sense is on my side here.
I'm sure it is.
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I'm sure it is.
Well at least you finally came around. :devil
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Well at least you finally came around. :devil
My statements stand. :cool:
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My statements stand. :cool:
They're there but they don't stand. :cheers:
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They're there but they don't stand. :cheers:
They stand as well as or better than your anecdotes. :)
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They stand as well as or better than your anecdotes. :)
Must be Opposite Day. :devil
By your own admission you don't even comprehend said assertions, thus refuting them is not even possible--as demonstrated. :old:
Eh, don't sweat it. When you guys elect me as King of the World I'll fix everything. :D :banana:
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I'm sorry if my understanding HT's ENY as a mechanic to give outnumbered sides less of a disadvantage seemed confusing. Every post I've made on the subject has been supportive of that element of design. As far as 'complicated work-arounds' are concerned, where did you see one? I posted about players not letting their own emotional or mental complications get in the way of enjoying a good game, as designed. There have been very few design tweaks recommended by players that I have found compelling (Fugi recently posted one). So if you're mistaking my continued support of ENY as something radical or a 'solution to a game design problem' that is incomplete, somehow - please don't. I don't perceive the game as a problem, in that regard. There are players, however, that appear to insist on having one.
ENY treats countries as a single entity where limiting plane choice helps Rooks vs Knits when knit numbers are larger. It SEEMS logical.
But the reality on large maps is that countries are not single entities that are coordinating the activities of players in support of the country goal. Instead every quadrant is it's own microcosm of independent activity that is only connected to the rest of the activity through down times limits.
so when I log on and take off and fly out to meet a group of fighters in my microcosm and I'm out number 3 v 1 ENY makes no sense. In reality of the Jokers are on, they will roll a map and win the war because they group locally into the microcosm where they are fighting and out number everyone. Yet the people they are attacking are limited by ENY. So ENY performs the exact opposite affect of its intended purpose. So ENY can't limit unbalanced action and teams rolling maps, or gang-ing up.
And why should it? :salute
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That's a player issue. Each side is indeed a single entity comprised of individual players. The organization of that entity (or lack of) is completely player driven. Again, ENY works as intended. Map capture is another design element. If it was just about grabbing favorite rides to dogfight then it would not be the MA but the dueling arena or match play. Players suffering consequence is always their side's fault in the MA. It is equally applied and fair (right down to the option of switching sides to either balance or retain your ride - as an individual or group - your choice).
P.S. Side switch time limitation is a direct result of players complaining about spies gaming the game. Personally, I've always felt that was unnecessary, given the public admission by many that they shadow account and that such isn't a game rule violation (that and out of game vox programs being used cross country). Even if players want to pay HT extra to 'be clever', I suspect their efforts don't yield the return they imagine. That being said, did switch limitation ever actually hinder me and is it worth my complaining or campaigning against it? Not really. I anticipate it'll still be in place upon my return and that it won't hinder my fun or way I play this game, whatsoever.
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That's a player issue. Each side is indeed a single entity comprised of individual players. The organization of that entity (or lack of) is completely player driven. Again, ENY works as intended.
Only if it's intended purpose is to piss people off. It does not effect the outcome of the war. :salute
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why not remove ENY and replace it with a perk value that fluctuates much like ENY?
this way no one is saying you can't fly your favorite ride but you will have to pay a premium to fly it in the current environment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Players suffering consequence is always their side's fault in the MA.
How is it the players fault to get ganged by the other two sides? It is a natural process. Players like to fight easy enemies, and to capture fields easily. Once one enemy is determined as the easier one, players move to that front. The same happens on the second side fighting the same enrmy, because that enemy is already busy, and hence the easier one.
How does ENY affect this? The country being limited cannot defend itself as easily as the others. Hence it's more likely to be selected as a common target.
How can a country get out of that situation? How to make the other countries fight eachother? Porking is an obvious choice, but with limited options. Ammo bunkers is the only easily feasible option. Fuel porking has been disabled, and too many barracks per field. Maybe there is an alternative: Instead of spreading out and slowing two enemies slightly the correct reaction is to horde and defend against only one, temporarily abandoning the other front. That should make the enemy defended against feel that it's probably easier to attack the other side.
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ENY penalizes players electing to not switch for balance sake when their side enjoys a significant numerical advantage. Even then, it doesn't force you to change sides if you don't want to. The complaint against it is an 'eat my cake and have it too' one. Don't try winning an argument by obtuse over complication.
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why not remove ENY and replace it with a perk value that fluctuates much like ENY?
this way no one is saying you can't fly your favorite ride but you will have to pay a premium to fly it in the current environment.
I like this a lot.
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The problem is there are many arguments and counter punches to the ENY issue.
Standing back and observing it is obvious that it is an important element of dissatisfaction as it comes up as a complaint time and again.
For me, I am done worrying about it and simply log off. That is my preference. If my game session is not fun then it is likely not the game for me.
Now there are those that will call me weak, or in need of a late war crutch, whatever. I can hold my own, it just is not as much fun. So perhaps answer me this. Why stay when the game mechanics reduce the enjoyment level for me?
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The problem is there are many arguments and counter punches to the ENY issue.
Standing back and observing it is obvious that it is an important element of dissatisfaction as it comes up as a complaint time and again.
For me, I am done worrying about it and simply log off. That is my preference. If my game session is not fun then it is likely not the game for me.
Now there are those that will call me weak, or in need of a late war crutch, whatever. I can hold my own, it just is not as much fun. So perhaps answer me this. Why stay when the game mechanics reduce the enjoyment level for me?
I believe that those that leave due to a lack of fun is in the hundreds and it continues everyday. We have trouble hitting 200 players on a Saturday night these days. But why change anything, nothings broke right? :rolleyes:
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I believe that those that leave due to a lack of fun is in the hundreds and it continues everyday.
Belief never truly replaces real statistics. That's the difference between a cult and science. Back before the graphics update it was claimed players were leaving in droves because of that.
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Belief never truly replaces real statistics. That's the difference between a cult and science. Back before the graphics update it was claimed players were leaving in droves because of that.
....and if you look at the ranking you can see that hundreds if not over a thousand players no longer rank. Oh and when was the last time you played?
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....and if you look at the ranking you can see that hundreds if not over a thousand players no longer rank. Oh and when was the last time you played?
I was waiting for someone to try to play that card, in spite of the fact that I regularly admit in my posts that my account is currently inactive, why it is and that I didn't rage quit or leave in protest of anything.
I've never stopped playing because the game wasn't fun. From the time I had my stroke, through recovery to the point of going back to school and living with a reduced income, as a result, I never intended to break my connection with this game or this community. I finally caved to practicality and decided to temporarily let my account lapse Dec. of 2017 (oddly enough to my wife's protests - she supports my connection to AH). As it turned out, it was left active for four months longer and my darling wife, the keeper of the cc statement, didn't say anything (not that I had the luxury to play because of studies). I took that time to save up ever so slowly for a computer upgrade. This turned out to be a practical necessity, expense-wise, when my step-son moved back in, bringing with him his energy hogging game PC. His PC will get moth-balled for the duration once my new PC is complete and set up for community family use. That'll be a 300.00 utility expense trimming (with just one PC running regularly and not seeing extensive game use).
Currently, a major monthly expense is finally paid off. My game computer sits on the floor with a new motherboard, new memory sticks and a new video card but unfortunately my A+ training is so old and outdated that I'll hafta let the Geeksquad handle it. Hopefully soon.
My personal experience is what leads me to believe that people who claim everyone that isn't currently playing the game left in disgust or frustration with a game design feature or function is mainly projection. Neither you nor I have hard data to back such a claim or even to state that they all experienced the same life circumstances I have. I don't think it's unreasonable that there may be a mixture but I never was impressed with claims of certainty based on anything but hard data to prove it.
So, I anticipate my return fairly soon. It won't be because something broken in the game got fixed. Like I've pretty much consistently said; it's not the game, it's the players (and I know plenty that are still in game that make up for that).
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So perhaps answer me this. Why stay when the game mechanics reduce the enjoyment level for me?
I suppose the question that you are answering is: What's the other game I'd rather be playing?
Hey, this is the US of A, where free choice is what runs the economy. If there's a better alternative, then go!
Thus far, I haven't been informed of any better alternatives. Most of the "competitors" don't worry about things like ENY because they don't have enough players to make it an issue. If flying your favorite plane matters that much to you, then it seems to me there must be other places you can do that. Enjoy!
Really, there are a lot of people here who have lost their sense of perspective.
- oldman
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I have plenty of other games to play. In the past AH kept my interest, not so much now. Sure, there are other factors such as runners, lack of numbers / fights that add to my lack of interest however ENY is a factor for me.
As I stated im my post above, perhaps AH is not the game for me anymore. There is no loss of perspective at all.
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I was waiting for someone to try to play that card, in spite of the fact that I regularly admit in my posts that my account is currently inactive, why it is and that I didn't rage quit or leave in protest of anything.
I've never stopped playing because the game wasn't fun. From the time I had my stroke, through recovery to the point of going back to school and living with a reduced income, as a result, I never intended to break my connection with this game or this community. I finally caved to practicality and decided to temporarily let my account lapse Dec. of 2017 (oddly enough to my wife's protests - she supports my connection to AH). As it turned out, it was left active for four months longer and my darling wife, the keeper of the cc statement, didn't say anything (not that I had the luxury to play because of studies). I took that time to save up ever so slowly for a computer upgrade. This turned out to be a practical necessity, expense-wise, when my step-son moved back in, bringing with him his energy hogging game PC. His PC will get moth-balled for the duration once my new PC is complete and set up for community family use. That'll be a 300.00 utility expense trimming (with just one PC running regularly and not seeing extensive game use).
Currently, a major monthly expense is finally paid off. My game computer sits on the floor with a new motherboard, new memory sticks and a new video card but unfortunately my A+ training is so old and outdated that I'll hafta let the Geeksquad handle it. Hopefully soon.
My personal experience is what leads me to believe that people who claim everyone that isn't currently playing the game left in disgust or frustration with a game design feature or function is mainly projection. Neither you nor I have hard data to back such a claim or even to state that they all experienced the same life circumstances I have. I don't think it's unreasonable that there may be a mixture but I never was impressed with claims of certainty based on anything but hard data to prove it.
So, I anticipate my return fairly soon. It won't be because something broken in the game got fixed. Like I've pretty much consistently said; it's not the game, it's the players (and I know plenty that are still in game that make up for that).
It doesnt really matter "why" you left, but that you did, like many many other people. The numbers continue to drop. We lose more players every week than we get in and keep. Do I have the hard numbers from HTC? No, but as I STILL play the game and STILL run my numbers each week to see if Im improving...... there is soooooo much room for improving for me..... I can see the number reflect less and less players. That is problem #1
Problem #2 is the type of players we have these days, something you know very little about as you dont play any more...... the point I was trying to make with my comment/card I played. Todays game play is worst than it was a year ago, well maybe it has gotten a bit better with the new dar, but still it is NOTHING like what we had a few years ago. Im not talking back in its "heydays" either. Sure the low numbers bring most of the poor game play brighter into the light, but even so the game has become more and more a game of avoidance than anything else. The players no longer want to spend the TIME to fight it out. To most of them fighting has nothing to do with this game and is most likely one of the reason they log off ( I cant get anything done, screw this).
Last night FSO had 146 players, were a year ago they had 188. Thats what about 25% less players (These are hard FACTS using HTC/FSO logs). Check the numbers on the scenario that is running this weekend. You'll see the same thing. These are the events the majority of the players use to play, the "bread and butter of the game, and they are slowly dying away as well.
There ARE problems, things driving players away from the game. I dont think anyone is looking for a huge change, just some minor tweaks to reign in some of the more lame game play that seems to dominate what we have left in this game.
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Challenging your false narrative actually does matter, though. You were stating (not even inferring) that hundreds or even thousands of players have left the game because of things like ENY. Then you attempted to make a point of that with my not being active. I believe I successfully illustrated how that is a perception blown way out of proportion by giving in-depth detail on my circumstances, since you attempted to call me out. Turning it around by claiming I'm drastically out of the loop since the entire player community has somehow 'drastically changed' in a year doesn't take the place of rational concession.
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Challenging your false narrative actually does matter, though. You were stating (not even inferring) that hundreds or even thousands of players have left the game because of things like ENY. Then you attempted to make a point of that with my not being active. I believe I successfully illustrated how that is a perception blown way out of proportion by giving in-depth detail on my circumstances, since you attempted to call me out. Turning it around by claiming I'm drastically out of the loop since the entire player community has somehow 'drastically changed' in a year doesn't take the place of rational concession.
But then again neither of your claims can be validated. however, one can look at the numbers drop in relation to changes made to the game and draw a reasonable conclusion as to the reason or reasons people bailed.
So, to argue over an opinion is fruitless at best.
:salute
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Since it was instituted, when has ENY been changed? Why wasn't there a mass exodus when it was first instituted? Is it possible that people might stop playing AH without it being a rage quit or protest thing and that ENY had nothing to do with it? I'm willing to concede some may have but I wouldn't dream of exaggerating the possibility one way or the other. Emotional leverage for lost causes is a waste of time.
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Since it was instituted, when has ENY been changed? Why wasn't there a mass exodus when it was first instituted? Is it possible that people might stop playing AH without it being a rage quit or protest thing and that ENY had nothing to do with it? I'm willing to concede some may have but I wouldn't dream of exaggerating the possibility one way or the other. Emotional leverage for lost causes is a waste of time.
There are probably dozen or more reason why people left. For some, it may have been the straw that broke the camels back. Imagine a player base that hated ENY but decided that they could put up with it. Then all of a sudden Hitech starts tweaking things, these tweaks become a catalyst that pushes them out and BAMB, it becomes relevant to the reason that folks leave. I seriously doubt there is any one reason people have left, there are compounding issues. What are these issue? if you answer that, then you have a million dollar answer.
While I understand that this is a 1 issue topic, you have to look beyond the single issue and look at the big picture and address things as if they are on the big screen. They all bleed in to one another and for some it's enough to bounce out.
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Roger.
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There are probably dozen or more reason why people left. For some, it may have been the straw that broke the camels back. Imagine a player base that hated ENY but decided that they could put up with it. Then all of a sudden Hitech starts tweaking things, these tweaks become a catalyst that pushes them out and BAMB, it becomes relevant to the reason that folks leave. I seriously doubt there is any one reason people have left, there are compounding issues. What are these issue? if you answer that, then you have a million dollar answer.
While I understand that this is a 1 issue topic, you have to look beyond the single issue and look at the big picture and address things as if they are on the big screen. They all bleed in to one another and for some it's enough to bounce out.
Well said. The point I was trying to make is it really doesnt matter WHY people are leaving ( there are dozens of reasons and tweaking isnt going to please everyone). The point is that they ARE leaving and not enough new players are coming in to cover the lose.
The Aces High we started with isnt going to cut it in todays market as things stand right now. Advertising, social media, even changes to the game may all be required to help new players to come in and stay.Those of you saying "All is well!" are lying to yourselves.
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Whenever someone doesn't like something in the game they immediately claim it's the reason people are leaving. Perhaps they feel this will persuade HTC to grant their wish. The game is basically the same game it has always been:
-Giant multi-player 3-way battle of air sea and land vehicles.
-objectives and action is determined only by the desires of the players in the arena.
code changes over the years have tried to enhance the playing experience of all players.
People leave because of circumstances that have nothing to do with code changes.
1) health reasons
2) financial reasons
3) life priority reasons
The reason they are not quickly back filled with new players is a matter of conjecture. Coming from a house of gamers I feel the biggest factors are:
1) it takes a good gaming rig to play. by contrast a PS4 or XBOX is $400.
2) the competition for MMOs is much larger than it was when AH started and is growing everyday.
3) The game really required peripheries [stick, pedals, throttle, TrackIr or Oculus] to enjoy fully. this adds extra hundreds of dollars to the investment to play.
4) The game is very difficult. To not get slaughtered on must learn the game, plane controls, flight, the view system, gunnery, and ACM. This takes hundreds of hours and will only be attempted by die hard fans of the genre who come in with desire to master WWII air combat.
5) Fans of the genre are a shrinking demographic. Fighter pilot news reports ended 40 years ago. kids want to be a virtual LeBron James now, not a virtual Chuck Yeager. When was the last time you heard a "squeaker" in the arena? It's pretty rare. No it isn't because of 200 channel rants. it's because they have different idols now and the computer world allows everyone to put on the their virtual persona. This new generation doesn't know what a fighter pilot is.
So if you want the arena full you have to make the following changes (in my opinion):
1) Make a version for XBOX users that allows then to use an XBOX controller.
2) Allow cross platform play in the arena so XBOX players can play with PC players.
3) add an off-line story to play through that acts a training class so new players can learn the game, controls, and the skill set to play in the arena.
But for God's sake stop blaming player numbers on ENY and radar tweaks. :salute
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I winder if porting this game to a known engine would do any good.
As far as I know, this game uses an in-house engine and is limited by the imagination of the coder that is plugging away at it. I also understand that keeping costs down is paramount but using a tested cross platform engine would open this game up to Xbox, PS while retaining it's roots in the PC world.
Both major consoles already support peripherals so that is not an issue.
This is not a shot at Dale and crew just a look to the future from someone who plans on playing this game for the next two or three decades.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Whenever someone doesn't like something in the game they immediately claim it's the reason people are leaving. Perhaps they feel this will persuade HTC to grant their wish. The game is basically the same game it has always been:
-Giant multi-player 3-way battle of air sea and land vehicles.
-objectives and action is determined only by the desires of the players in the arena.
code changes over the years have tried to enhance the playing experience of all players.
People leave because of circumstances that have nothing to do with code changes.
1) health reasons
2) financial reasons
3) life priority reasons
The reason they are not quickly back filled with new players is a matter of conjecture. Coming from a house of gamers I feel the biggest factors are:
1) it takes a good gaming rig to play. by contrast a PS4 or XBOX is $400.
2) the competition for MMOs is much larger than it was when AH started and is growing everyday.
3) The game really required peripheries [stick, pedals, throttle, TrackIr or Oculus] to enjoy fully. this adds extra hundreds of dollars to the investment to play.
4) The game is very difficult. To not get slaughtered on must learn the game, plane controls, flight, the view system, gunnery, and ACM. This takes hundreds of hours and will only be attempted by die hard fans of the genre who come in with desire to master WWII air combat.
5) Fans of the genre are a shrinking demographic. Fighter pilot news reports ended 40 years ago. kids want to be a virtual LeBron James now, not a virtual Chuck Yeager. When was the last time you heard a "squeaker" in the arena? It's pretty rare. No it isn't because of 200 channel rants. it's because they have different idols now and the computer world allows everyone to put on the their virtual persona. This new generation doesn't know what a fighter pilot is.
So if you want the arena full you have to make the following changes (in my opinion):
1) Make a version for XBOX users that allows then to use an XBOX controller.
2) Allow cross platform play in the arena so XBOX players can play with PC players.
3) add an off-line story to play through that acts a training class so new players can learn the game, controls, and the skill set to play in the arena.
But for God's sake stop blaming player numbers on ENY and radar tweaks. :salute
Sadly (and I do mean sadly), this all rings true to me. :cry
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What was that weekly thing they had a few years ago, where people would gang up and horde the map? There was a name for it. I believe it was one of the reasons for implementing ENY.
I finally remembered: Rook Joint Squad Operations. Undoubtedly people who are better at searching these forums can find a good thread, but here's Bustr, three years ago, remembering the same cause-and-effect:
Since AH1 and the rook joint squad operations with 300+ players closing down the MA forced Hitech to implement ENY. Now with ENY in effect, I don't see everyone jumping to the side with numbers to be on the winning team all flying the uber rides and causing account cancelations. That was the mother of all unintended consequences I've seen in this game since 2002.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,375286.msg4999324.html#msg4999324
- oldman
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At that time rooks had <50% the players of bishops online at any time of the day (262 for <100 pp regularly). And when for a couple of hours during the rare RJO rooks had more players something had to be done about it? Those poor bish, can't let them be outnumbered once in a while.
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I finally remembered: Rook Joint Squad Operations. Undoubtedly people who are better at searching these forums can find a good thread, but here's Bustr, three years ago, remembering the same cause-and-effect:
... I don't see everyone jumping to the side with numbers to be on the winning team all flying the uber rides and causing account cancelations...
- oldman
I don't believe people cancelled accounts because rooks won the war, or that ENY stopped it. :salute
Also one chess piece systemically out numbering the other two is no longer an issue. Temporary fluctuations really don't need to be addressed by plane limits. better to enact a modification to the side switching rules that stop people switching to the side with higher numbers. :salute
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The whole ENY the sky is falling thing is overblown. I'd venture to say that 50%+ players think its a good idea for gameplay but are just less vocal/don't threaten to rage quit when things dont go their way.
Yes numbers are dwindling but i think it has nothing to do with ENY.
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The whole ENY the sky is falling thing is overblown. I'd venture to say that 50%+ players think its a good idea for gameplay but are just less vocal/don't threaten to rage quit when things dont go their way.
Yes numbers are dwindling but i think it has nothing to do with ENY.
Agreed.
As the saying goes, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I mostly fly for the side with the low numbers (as of when I log on); I'm not even sure which planes get locked out because of ENY. (Back when it was first implemented I was blissfully spending all of my AH time in the Combat Theater (now AvA), where ENY had no role.) But I certainly do recall the hubbub on these boards, generated by the swarms of late-war planes steamrolling the maps. I remember all the complaints about side-switching spies blowing the cover of missions because it was too easy to switch. I remember the anger when squad sizes were limited.
AH history repeatedly demonstrates that you can't please everyone.
- oldman
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Agreed.
As the saying goes, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I mostly fly for the side with the low numbers (as of when I log on); I'm not even sure which planes get locked out because of ENY. (Back when it was first implemented I was blissfully spending all of my AH time in the Combat Theater (now AvA), where ENY had no role.) But I certainly do recall the hubbub on these boards, generated by the swarms of late-war planes steamrolling the maps. I remember all the complaints about side-switching spies blowing the cover of missions because it was too easy to switch. I remember the anger when squad sizes were limited.
AH history repeatedly demonstrates that you can't please everyone.
- oldman
Aye. :cheers:
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The whole ENY the sky is falling thing is overblown. I'd venture to say that 50%+ players think its a good idea for gameplay but are just less vocal/don't threaten to rage quit when things dont go their way.
Yes numbers are dwindling but i think it has nothing to do with ENY.
this am I switched to rooks as it was like 20 bish 5 rooks and 9 knights. as soon as I switched to rooks 2 logged due to both sides attacking rooks not an eny issue but the fact we could get tempys for near free seemed to entice no one. many times on the bish side when the eny gets skewed there are quite a few that log because of not being able to get a decent ride to fight high eny planes.
maybe the eny is not whats making folks "quit" the game, but its the theory if I have to log off so much why play?
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this am I switched to rooks as it was like 20 bish 5 rooks and 9 knights. as soon as I switched to rooks 2 logged due to both sides attacking rooks not an eny issue but the fact we could get tempys for near free seemed to entice no one. many times on the bish side when the eny gets skewed there are quite a few that log because of not being able to get a decent ride to fight high eny planes.
maybe the eny is not whats making folks "quit" the game, but its the theory if I have to log off so much why play?
Now here I think we agree. People hate getting ganged. I hate getting ganged. And I'm used to it!
Objectively, it probably doesn't matter if you're being ganged by P-40s while you're in an La7, or whether you're being ganged by La7s while you're in an La7. But the latter situation is more irritating.
As a side note, this was one of the problems in the AvA (back in the day). If the Allies had Spitfires enabled, people gravitated to the Allied side, things became significantly imbalanced, and the German players started to disappear. The staff was criticized for omitting Spits from weekly setups, but this was why it was done.
At any rate: Side imbalance is a much greater problem than ENY or spying or whatever. Much of what HTC has done over the years appears to have been directed to this issue.
- oldman
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Oldman, actually fighting a horde of p40s with a la7 sounds pretty fun.
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if there is Less then 50 people in a area, do away with eny. i like eny it gives a challenge. i love killing yaks, 51s and other low eny planes in F4F's and Ki43s :joystick:
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if there is Less then 50 people in a area, do away with eny.
I have played in an arena with low total numbers, highly lopsided sides and ineffectual ENY before. For the average player on the outnumbered side, it totally sucked.
So much that for the most part they just went away, leaving the other side virtually alone to happily roll based unopposed.
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Now here I think we agree. People hate getting ganged. I hate getting ganged. And I'm used to it!
Objectively, it probably doesn't matter if you're being ganged by P-40s while you're in an La7, or whether you're being ganged by La7s while you're in an La7. But the latter situation is more irritating.
As a side note, this was one of the problems in the AvA (back in the day). If the Allies had Spitfires enabled, people gravitated to the Allied side, things became significantly imbalanced, and the German players started to disappear. The staff was criticized for omitting Spits from weekly setups, but this was why it was done.
At any rate: Side imbalance is a much greater problem than ENY or spying or whatever. Much of what HTC has done over the years appears to have been directed to this issue.
- oldman
Ganged by P-40s? That actually happened?
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Ganged by P-40s? That actually happened?
Heh. Happened to me, some years ago, in the AvA. Don't know how common it is now; would take an ambitious squad to pull it off, I imagine.
- oldman