Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: caldera on December 21, 2018, 12:39:12 PM
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These are the top 10 fighters in the current tour:
(https://i.postimg.cc/YC196XSQ/yak3-bs.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
- One of these has a comparatively generous ENY rating, despite not only being #3 in kills , but tied for #1 in K/D.
- K/D can be skewed when only a few good pilots fly a somewhat obscure plane. That is not the case here, with the Yak-3 being consistently very popular.
- Regarding popularity, all of the most popular planes are in the upper tier of competitiveness. However, one always near the top of this list is rated as inferior in ENY.
Why is this plane at 18 ENY, when it's contemporaries are rated 5-12 ENY? :headscratch:
These ratings need periodic adjustments to have ratings more in line with their in-game performance.
ps: The F4U-1A is rated lower than it's performance indicates. Should be under 10 ENY, along with the Yak-3. Ditto for the 190D-9.
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18 ENY is almost solely due to the lack of ammunition. Unlike the other aircraft shown here, the Yak-3 has short legs and 120 rounds of cannons.
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I agree with caldera.
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Gibberish and nothing to do with me
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18 ENY is almost solely due to the lack of ammunition. Unlike the other aircraft shown here, the Yak-3 has short legs and 120 rounds of cannons.
Idk.. i think its legs are long enough to do everything in the MA other than strat run escort.
Low ammo count, yes. But if you plan and take smart shots, the guns hit hard and easily capable of 5+ kill runs.
Then the fact 1 in every 3 planes encountered is a yak3..
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These are the top 10 fighters in the current tour:
(https://i.postimg.cc/YC196XSQ/yak3-bs.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
- One of these has a comparatively generous ENY rating, despite not only being #3 in kills , but tied for #1 in K/D.
- K/D can be skewed when only a few good pilots fly a somewhat obscure plane. That is not the case here, with the Yak-3 being consistently very popular.
- Regarding popularity, all of the most popular planes are in the upper tier of competitiveness. However, one always near the top of this list is rated as inferior in ENY.
Why is this plane at 18 ENY, when it's contemporaries are rated 5-12 ENY? :headscratch:
These ratings need periodic adjustments to have ratings more in line with their in-game performance.
ps: The F4U-1A is rated lower than it's performance indicates. Should be under 10 ENY, along with the Yak-3. Ditto for the 190D-9.
Yup..
Idk.. i think its legs are long enough to do everything in the MA other than strat run escort.
Low ammo count, yes. But if you plan and take smart shots, the guns hit hard and easily capable of 5+ kill runs.
Then the fact 1 in every 3 planes encountered is a yak3..
Yup
Newb planes have been hurting the fights in AH. 20MM cannons do way more damage than 50 cals.
All super late war planes should be perked. 190Ds hurt the fights. Yak3s that take 150 50 cals need to be like 5 eny. It's no different than the la7.
I mean if a Yak3 is 2 eny points away from a P51B. I think we have a problem. Try 1v1 with a p51B vs a Yak3. :rofl
Is it really that hard to change a planes ENY? Too many goon planes in the sky has really slowed down the fights.
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I agree with the op. I would even go as far as revise the majority of the planes eny, some of them make little sence.
DutchVII
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I agree with the OP also....Yak3 should not be 18 eny.
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Perk the Ship Gunner.
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Perk the Ship Gunner.
what's the point, the perks will just be returned, lol
semp
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I agree with the op. I would even go as far as revise the majority of the planes eny, some of them make little sence.
DutchVII
Indeed.
Took a bigger sample of the three previous tours, to see if this month is an anomaly or the status quo:
Tours 224,225 and 226: Top Ten Fighters (plane/ENY/kills/deaths/K/D) best numbers are bolded
1. P-51D / 5 / 15172 / 11995 / 1.26
2. Spit XVI / 5 / 11323 / 9677 / 1.16
3. Yak-3 / 18 / 10163 / 6857 / 1.48
4. 190D-9 / 12 / 8150 / 5664 / 1.43
5. N1K2J / 5 / 7750 / 6239 / 1.24
6. Ki-84 / 20 / 7750 / 6239 / 1.27
7. La-7 / 5 / 5941 / 4709 / 1.26
8. F4U-1A / 12 / 5641 / 3803 / 1.48
9. P-47M / 10 / 5356 / 3813 / 1.40
10. F6F-5 / 12 / 5090 / 5688 / 0.89
Quite a few things that don't jibe here:
The plane tied for the best K/D has an ENY of 18. Should be a 7, and that's being generous. Compare it's results to the dreaded Spit XVI.
The other plane tied for the best has an unrealistic 12 ENY. Should be an 8.
The P-47M should probably be an 8.
The Dora should be a 7.
The Ki-84 at 20 ENY? Please. Should be a 9.
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While the Yak-3 IS annoying af, I think it's ENY is OK. Main reason is that it carries zero ordnance unlike the others on that list. It has almost no capability to kill a GV except soft vehicles and you aint gettin many with that short clip.
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what's the point, the perks will just be returned, lol
semp
unless it's changed.. You don't get any perk points being in a Manned gun of any type
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I did all the math...and the answer is 42. So it does add up...FYI :bolt:
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18 ENY is almost solely due to the lack of ammunition. Unlike the other aircraft shown here, the Yak-3 has short legs and 120 rounds of cannons.
I dropped 8 or 9 kills with that amount of ammo because it's other attributes make up for it's lack of ammo.
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While the Yak-3 IS annoying af, I think it's ENY is OK. Main reason is that it carries zero ordnance unlike the others on that list. It has almost no capability to kill a GV except soft vehicles and you aint gettin many with that short clip.
Any plane that carries less than enough ordnance to kill a hangar their bombs shouldn't matter in their ENY...KI84, Yak3, F4U1A, 190D9 should all be under 10 because they are EASY in their fighter roll....honestly of those planes the F4U is the easiest plane to win a fight in by far no questions asked.
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I have been saying for a long time now that the Yak3 and the Dora are overdue for an ENY adjustment based on usage and impact. It is up to HTC now.
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+1 to this thread :)
Though id argue the yak3 is better than the f4u 1v1 (except the -4) since it has the power to get above and pick the hog apart.
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+1 to this thread :)
Though id argue the yak3 is better than the f4u 1v1 (except the -4) since it has the power to get above and pick the hog apart.
Co-E, co alt, under 10k even the -4 dies easy
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I have been saying for a long time now that the Yak3 and the Dora are overdue for an ENY adjustment based on usage and impact. It is up to HTC now.
I have a feeling that THIS is the time the ENY will be adjusted. What is the old saying, "500th time is the charm". :D
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Co-E, co alt, under 10k even the -4 dies easy
This dude has no clue how to fly an F4U obviously.
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This dude has no clue how to fly an F4U obviously.
Don’t like flying hogs, I just kill them.
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Don’t like flying hogs, I just kill them.
Yea and if you did you would see how easy they are
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Yea and if you did you would see how easy they are
The two planes that cause me the most trouble are the F4U and Yak-3. :bhead
The instantaneous turn, hover-flaps and zoom climb make the F4U very dangerous. It does take some skill but the huge kill numbers racked up are no coincidence.
The Yak's ease of use, Atlas V climb rate and Tiger II damage model make it superior in a multi-plane engagement. So easy a caveman can do it.
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F4us are a big target with at best average acceleration and not even that fast compared to lw planes. I dont find the average f4u to be that difficult to kill.
Yak3s are stick stirring wonders tho!
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Any plane that carries less than enough ordnance to kill a hangar their bombs shouldn't matter in their ENY...KI84, Yak3, F4U1A, 190D9 should all be under 10 because they are EASY in their fighter roll....honestly of those planes the F4U is the easiest plane to win a fight in by far no questions asked.
KI84,F4U,190D9 can all kill a Panzer, T34, M4, Panther, Tiger etc. easily. Yak-3 cannot. This factors into ENY also. Not just what a plane can do in an A2A fight.
Also, planes have a separate value for determining points when attacking hangers (and other buildings/strats) it's called OBJ. ENY value has nothing to do with that.
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Spit 14, 47m, ta152 and k4s cant kill gvs either. Still monster a2a killers.
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Ehh, the 190D is a much bigger nuisance than the F4U1A. Only about 3 pilots make up most of the F4U kills. The F4U is a great plane, but the majority of AH don't know how to fly it, just like the P51. Most F4Us get low and slow and have no chance, while most 190Ds stay high and fast and only pick then are able to run after losing any advantage. The F4U can't easily run after losing Advantage.
The YaK3 squirms and stick stirs until it easily accels away. The YaK3 can hold E exceptionally well, turns about as good as the 109K, and is easier to aim than the 109K. Not only that, but the Yak3 is way stronger than the 109K. The other day, I had 50s. Gave the guy 2 gas leaks, got his aileron, got half his tail, with about 100 bullets and the guy was still able to squirm away from me and go land.
Honestly I'd rather see F4Us than a Yak3 and a 190D. I know me and many others are tired of chasing these goon planes.
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Violator is correct!
Sorry i had to finish you off yesterday. The other 2 were taking waaaay too long :p
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Ehh, the 190D is a much bigger nuisance than the F4U1A. Only about 3 pilots make up most of the F4U kills. The F4U is a great plane, but the majority of AH don't know how to fly it, just like the P51. Most F4Us get low and slow and have no chance, while most 190Ds stay high and fast and only pick then are able to run after losing any advantage. The F4U can't easily run after losing Advantage.
The YaK3 squirms and stick stirs until it easily accels away. The YaK3 can hold E exceptionally well, turns about as good as the 109K, and is easier to aim than the 109K. Not only that, but the Yak3 is way stronger than the 109K. The other day, I had 50s. Gave the guy 2 gas leaks, got his aileron, got half his tail, with about 100 bullets and the guy was still able to squirm away from me and go land.
Honestly I'd rather see F4Us than a Yak3 and a 190D. I know me and many others are tired of chasing these goon planes.
The funny thing is, after reading and listening to some interviews of Luftwaffe pilots on the eastern front, the Yak series of fighters were extraordinarily frail.
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The funny thing is, after reading and listening to some interviews of Luftwaffe pilots on the eastern front, the Yak series of fighters were extraordinarily frail.
You wouldn't think that was funny if you were a Yak pilot.
- oldman
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KI84,F4U,190D9 can all kill a Panzer, T34, M4, Panther, Tiger etc. easily. Yak-3 cannot. This factors into ENY also. Not just what a plane can do in an A2A fight.
Also, planes have a separate value for determining points when attacking hangers (and other buildings/strats) it's called OBJ. ENY value has nothing to do with that.
How often is a F4U1A, KI84, 190D9 upped to kill GVs??? THATS the point....the fighter planes upped for ordnance purposes are all the ones that carry enough of it to destroy a hangar.
I'm plenty aware of what every says factors into ENY but nobody has seen the equation...because there isn't one other than Hitech and Skuzzy saying... F it make that an 18 ENY.
Ehh, the 190D is a much bigger nuisance than the F4U1A. Only about 3 pilots make up most of the F4U kills. The F4U is a great plane, but the majority of AH don't know how to fly it, just like the P51. Most F4Us get low and slow and have no chance, while most 190Ds stay high and fast and only pick then are able to run after losing any advantage. The F4U can't easily run after losing Advantage.
The YaK3 squirms and stick stirs until it easily accels away. The YaK3 can hold E exceptionally well, turns about as good as the 109K, and is easier to aim than the 109K. Not only that, but the Yak3 is way stronger than the 109K. The other day, I had 50s. Gave the guy 2 gas leaks, got his aileron, got half his tail, with about 100 bullets and the guy was still able to squirm away from me and go land.
Honestly I'd rather see F4Us than a Yak3 and a 190D. I know me and many others are tired of chasing these goon planes.
Dora is a lot easier to control a furball with for a player....look at the 3 pilots who make up the top kills in the F4U1A...Humboldt, Rud3boi and what J0ker??? Jayro??? All of which sit on a perch and all suck in the F4U1A when they finally do have to fight 1v1....the reason they land so many kills is it is easy to do. More people don't fly it because the views....same with the 109s.
Yak3 and Brewster I still think have some crazy code in their flight model both do things that don't look natural like the rest of the planes in game.
Spit 14, 47m, ta152 and k4s cant kill gvs either. Still monster a2a killers.
I would take a F4U1A or Yak3 against any of those planes at MA altitude anyday...TA152 starts shining above like 18K....how often those fights come up??? same with the 47M and Spit14
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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Come try me junky......It seems your personality has not changed........Are you watermelon talking people here or working on something with the yak3?
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The funny thing is, after reading and listening to some interviews of Luftwaffe pilots on the eastern front, the Yak series of fighters were extraordinarily frail.
Yaks are not that strong. Most people just overestimate their ability to hit a target. I hear the same story in the Yak-9s... "I hit you a bazillion times" - reality is they may have got one ping on me with a 50 and yes it holed a fuel tank/took out my cannon/oiled my engine.
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Yaks are not that strong. Most people just overestimate their ability to hit a target. I hear the same story in the Yak-9s... "I hit you a bazillion times" - reality is they may have got one ping on me with a 50 and yes it holed a fuel tank/took out my cannon/oiled my engine.
Even if it is as you say. They don't die easy. Also the plane does almost everything better than most planes below 15k. And if it's outclassed at something. it does something else which totally outclasses the plane that does. The eny it's set at is just not right. it's should be similar to a la7.
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See Rule #4
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Only 3 pages before this thread turned into a chest thumping contest...
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The players most touchy (active or not) must have reason to be. ;)
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Only 3 pages before this thread turned into a chest thumping contest...
I'm surprised it took that long. :D
(http://gorillafund.org/image/ISA-chest-beat-400.jpg)
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...tis the season to be jolly! :D
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Only 3 pages before this thread turned into a chest thumping contest...
We are slipping. Shoulda taken one page. :old:
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See Rule #4
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Even if it is as you say. They don't die easy. Also the plane does almost everything better than most planes below 15k. And if it's outclassed at something. it does something else which totally outclasses the plane that does. The eny it's set at is just not right. it's should be similar to a la7.
Umm, lets see Yak-3 has best gun package? No. Is the fastest? No (Pony Dora Typhoon 109K Jug are all faster). Best roll rate? No. Best turn rate? No.
The Yak-3 is a very small, light aircraft with a mediocre gun package. Most of the good Yak-3 pilots are quite timid. I don't why it is such a boogey man for so many players (but the Niki and La7 went through the same phase).
It is a fun plane to fly.
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Umm, lets see Yak-3 has best gun package? No. Is the fastest? No (Pony Dora Typhoon 109K Jug are all faster). Best roll rate? No. Best turn rate? No.
The keywords here are "almost" and "something else". (The guns are pretty neat just not to much ammo)
It is a fun plane to fly.
And that it sure is! It's eny just doesn't fit the plane.
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If your AH account goes away so should your ability to post here.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
Umm, lets see Yak-3 has best gun package? No. Is the fastest? No (Pony Dora Typhoon 109K Jug are all faster). Best roll rate? No. Best turn rate? No.
The Yak-3 is a very small, light aircraft with a mediocre gun package. Most of the good Yak-3 pilots are quite timid. I don't why it is such a boogey man for so many players (but the Niki and La7 went through the same phase).
It is a fun plane to fly.
So you went on this little rant saying it's not the best at every category but it isn't certainly decent in all except guns really then compared it to the LA7 and N1K which are both what 8 ENY aircraft??? The thing shouldn't be an 18....12 at the highest 8 would be about right.
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Nothing has changed....4 pages of speculation and opinion...ask the right question....
HiTech why is the Yak 3 at an 18 ENY?
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Nothing has changed....4 pages of speculation and opinion...ask the right question....
HiTech why is the Yak 3 at an 18 ENY?
I did in the first post. With evidence to show the ENY value is wrong.
HiTech doesn't often weigh in on "how come" questions. Otherwise, he would be buried under an avalanche of them.
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What about this?
Dynamic ENY. The more people flying a plane the lower the ENY for that plane gets.
This would limit the number of the more popular planes and get people flying some of the planes that are hardly ever seen.
Seems to make more sense to me then arguing over some arbitrary number assigned to a plane that could be skewed in k/d by it being popular with better or worse pilots.
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What about this?
Dynamic ENY. The more people flying a plane the lower the ENY for that plane gets.
This would limit the number of the more popular planes and get people flying some of the planes that are hardly ever seen.
Seems to make more sense to me then arguing over some arbitrary number assigned to a plane that could be skewed in k/d by it being popular with better or worse pilots.
This could make planning missions more difficult for one and since missions have seemingly become extremely rare, I don`t think running them should be made even more complicated. Also some fly long and careful thus occupying one plane for a longer time and would make it less available for others so to speak.
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Personal ENY. The more kills a player gets in a specific plane the lower the ENY for that plane for that player drops.
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Personal ENY. The more kills a player gets in a specific plane the lower the ENY for that plane for that player drops.
People would change names every 2 weeks.
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HiTech doesn't often weigh in on "how come" questions. Otherwise, he would be buried under an avalanche of them.
He would also be buried under an avalanche of posts saying, "You're wrong!" I've seen it happen. It's probably why we don't see posts from Hitech very often.
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So you went on this little rant saying it's not the best at every category but it isn't certainly decent in all except guns really then compared it to the LA7 and N1K which are both what 8 ENY aircraft??? The thing shouldn't be an 18....12 at the highest 8 would be about right.
Correction, it is not the best in ANY category - that is speed/climb/range/roll/ord/and turn rates. The La7 is faster and has 3 x 20mm cannons, the Niki has 4 x 20mm cannons and both can carry bombs. And the performance of the yak drops off severely over 10k.
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The f4u4 or p51 or spit 16 or n1k1 arent the best in any category either...
The ki43 may be the best turner, the k4 the best climber, the 190 fastest rolling, me410 best gun package. Those planes just arent as well balanced.
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If your AH account goes away so should your ability to post here.
Why? There are long time members of this community that may find themselves in a position that prohibits them from maintaining activity (self included) from time to time. Do you not have friends in the community that aren't active? Wouldn't you like them to maintain some form of contact, even just to encourage them to once again play? Not every former active account holder is a spoiler or maintains some sort of odd grudge.
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Why? There are long time members of this community that may find themselves in a position that prohibits them from maintaining activity (self included) from time to time. Do you not have friends in the community that aren't active? Wouldn't you like them to maintain some form of contact, even just to encourage them to once again play? Not every former active account holder is a spoiler or maintains some sort of odd grudge.
This is true and sometimes they need help. If we can't communicate with them, we can't help.
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Personal ENY. The more kills a player gets in a specific plane the lower the ENY for that plane for that player drops.
So I have to fly 5 ENY P-40s?
What about this?
Dynamic ENY. The more people flying a plane the lower the ENY for that plane gets.
This would limit the number of the more popular planes and get people flying some of the planes that are hardly ever seen.
Seems to make more sense to me then arguing over some arbitrary number assigned to a plane that could be skewed in k/d by it being popular with better or worse pilots.
That might actually work. But when are the adjustments made, daily, monthly?
The f4u4 or p51 or spit 16 or n1k1 arent the best in any category either...
The ki43 may be the best turner, the k4 the best climber, the 190 fastest rolling, me410 best gun package. Those planes just arent as well balanced.
Exactly. And how much can the results be argued? The Yak-3 is very popular and very successful - but for some reason is not rated with it's peers.
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Caldera i agree with you completely. Whats your in game id?
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Caldera i agree with you completely. Whats your in game id?
Cybro. :)
Snuggie is my game ID
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Correction, it is not the best in ANY category - that is speed/climb/range/roll/ord/and turn rates. The La7 is faster and has 3 x 20mm cannons, the Niki has 4 x 20mm cannons and both can carry bombs. And the performance of the yak drops off severely over 10k.
I wish HTC could pull the altitude of every air to air kill, I bet 90% are below 10K...so it's performance dropoff doesn't matter in the MA, also your right it's not the best in anything...like I said...but it is good in almost every category except guns.
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The only thing that truly bothers me is it’s damn near indestructible. I can live with all of it’s amazing attributes (small, instant acceleration, good turn, infinite climb). But the fact that it takes near as much punishment as a B-17 bugs the hell out of me. Frustrating as hell to finally get the upper hand on the uber little turd bucket, turn it white with hit sprites, only to watch it fly away as if I was shooting marshmallows.
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Try with frozen marshmallows (https://aviationhumor.net/nasa-damage-testing/ (https://aviationhumor.net/nasa-damage-testing/)).
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The only thing that truly bothers me is it’s damn near indestructible. I can live with all of it’s amazing attributes (small, instant acceleration, good turn, infinite climb). But the fact that it takes near as much punishment as a B-17 bugs the hell out of me. Frustrating as hell to finally get the upper hand on the uber little turd bucket, turn it white with hit sprites, only to watch it fly away as if I was shooting marshmallows.
The damage model is very suspect for a plane with a modest compliment of armor and light weight.
That perhaps explains much of the Yak's high K/D: it can take a full broadside and then turn the tables and blow you out of the sky.
I can't think of another plane that has the Yak-3's combination of elusiveness and damage resistance, not even the B-239 (even though it is silly to have that virtually un-armored plane - and without self-sealing fuel tanks - and damage resistance mentioned in the same breath). Then add in the climb, turn, acceleration and nose mounted guns and it is the very definition of Late War Monster.
Ask yourselves an honest question: would you rather face a Yak-3 or a Spit XVI? If you hesitate for even a second to answer, the Yak's ENY is wrong.
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The b239 had more pilot armor than the buffalo.
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Hazzmatt almost had it:
Eny should be a variable market based on sorties divided by K/D in that plane per month overall. This would naturally create a balanced ENY. Bombers would be scored on Damage/death/sortie.
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I think ENY 10 is probably closer to the truth. No DT, no gondolas, no bombs, and limited ammo keeps it from being less than that imho. It's going to be higher than 5...but not by that much. I agree 18 is too high.
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Hazzmatt almost had it:
Eny should be a variable market based on sorties divided by K/D in that plane per month overall. This would naturally create a balanced ENY. Bombers would be scored on Damage/death/sortie.
I'd be curious to see a ranking of total kills/k:d
Paging Snailman
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This could make planning missions more difficult for one and since missions have seemingly become extremely rare, I don`t think running them should be made even more complicated. Also some fly long and careful thus occupying one plane for a longer time and would make it less available for others so to speak.
Maybe make mission planes to not be effected by ENY. Might be a good way to get more people in them. I see a lot of of complaints of no missions anymore. Want your low ENY value plane? Gotta fly a mission if the ENY is denying you otherwise.
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Well people would just create single man missions to get their plane.
I think ENY is a good thing but the values need to be reevaluated.
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I'd be curious to see a ranking of total kills/k:d
Paging Snailman
(https://i.postimg.cc/pLPH7VFL/227-stats.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzrXng73)
Planes that see heavy use but still have good K/D: F4U-1A, P-47M, Yak-3, 109K, La-7, 190D9, N1K, Ki-84 and Mossie all have better K/D than Spit XVI and P-51D.
There are several statistical anomalies, which can be explained by an obscure plane used only by a few veteran players: P-38G, Ta-152, Ki-61, P-38J, P-47D11 and P-40F.
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Snailman can you divide total kills by kill ratio and sort by the result?