Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mothman on September 27, 2019, 01:31:08 PM
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With a max of only 180 sometimes only 200 players during the summer and most Weekends. During the week the room peaks at 90 players. The 3 country side is ALWAYS off balance for our Overseas players. 20 Knights 18 Bish 3 Rooks.... It's ridiculous have ENY that accounts for inactive players in the tower for hours at a time.
Switching to a Axis and Alley or whatever name you want to give it will help players, who come on for 10 mins see high ENY and decided its not worth staying to fly 20-30 mins to find a good dogfight for 3 mins and fly home or ditch because they are out of fuel.
Or Fix the Game that when a person is in the tower for more than 15 minutes with no activity they get auto kicked and logged off. This way the ENY is accounting for only Active Players on the game.
~S~ Mothman :airplane:
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Don't you think this would have been suggested many, many, many times over the years? It's also been proven nonsense long ago!
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+1 on two sides. Turn the Bish off. Everyone knows they’re useless any way. :banana:
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Don't you think this would have been suggested many, many, many times over the years? It's also been proven nonsense long ago!
No one ever proved it’s nonsense. And if it had been suggested many times over the years there maybe something to it.
The only thing ever said by HTC was “no”. No real reason given on the two sided country deal. During the am hours of the week there maybe forty people logged on and 20 in flight. Why not kick those players that been in the tower for two hours? Every other game does. Is it that it makes the game look fuller than it is? I think it would be better to have a player log in and know the eny actually exists versus the eny existing for guys hoping for 25 Perk points leaving there computer on all day lol
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HUGE PLUS ONE ON THIS IDEA, BOTH PARTS
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Actually flippz, hi-tech did explain why kicking people out won't matter.
semp
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Actually flippz, hi-tech did explain why kicking people out won't matter.
semp
He also explained why a 2 sided main arena wouldn't work.
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Try again next month. :D
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He also explained why a 2 sided main arena wouldn't work.
It would work with some creative thinking to get around the structural programming issues he mentioned.
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Actually flippz, hi-tech did explain why kicking people out won't matter.
semp
Never seen an explanation for why not to kick a player that sits in the tower or a bush for x amount of time.
But please do explain why kicking tower sitters is not a good idea
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He also explained why a 2 sided main arena wouldn't work.
Have only seen two statements. No and we tried it along time ago and it didn’t work.
Funny only game I’ve seen that has three countries. It doesn’t work. Every night it’s the typical gang bang of one country or the other. So the country getting ganged usually winds up in gvs or man guns. And two other countries spend endless hours trying to taunt the three or four uppers out of the ack. So tell me what the difference in a two counry war and our typical evening in AH is? I’ll tell you, you have a lot of guys not in the air in a air combat game because they are either over run or dead bored of flying 7 mins to die in ack.
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Flippz what makes you think that with two countries one won't get ganged all the time?
semp
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Flippz what makes you think that with two countries one won't get ganged all the time?
semp
And that would be different from now how? Our “MA” is left up to us to play fair in it. I can’t tell you I have ever seen a spread out fight in the ma. In the last year it has gotten even worse. Typical game play is either two countries are fighting and most assets are dedicated to that fight and the third country’s is left fighting m3s and wirbs.
Think about this. One front. Furballers can have at it with a base. Tactical guys can move a few sectors away and sneak bases. Start runners can up a few sectors back get there 30k alt and destroy strats with pin point accuracy from 30k.
Like fess said in a post. Put 100 people in a high school football stadium and it’s seems full”er”. Still have room to move around but there’s a lil more mingling. Now take those 100 people and place them in a nfl stadium now all the sudden it’s sparse and seems empty. Not a lot of mingling unless you go out of your way. Same concept in the ma. The guys that want to fight will find each other. Guys that are sneaky and tactical will still avoid the fur ball.
Again there’s nothing avoiding the ganging situation but again we would be no better off than we are now. Except groups would not be excluded from engagements.
And still waiting on the explanation from the tower plowed comment that you made.
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And that would be different from now how?
Last night, after DaddyAce and I had done some dueling, we logged in to the Melee for a couple of quick sorties.
I was supposed to meet him on Bish so I had to switch countries. I shouldn't have. When I got there we realized Bish were being totally ignored and the only fights where over on the Rook/Knit front. Since I couldn't switch again, our only option was to fly over and circle undefended bases hoping someone would show up.
We just logged instead.
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Never seen an explanation for why not to kick a player that sits in the tower or a bush for x amount of time.
But please do explain why kicking tower sitters is not a good idea
He talks about it here....
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362537.msg4823819.html#msg4823819
Personally I think there are ways to make it work, its just coading after all.
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He talks about it here....
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362537.msg4823819.html#msg4823819
Personally I think there are ways to make it work, its just coading after all.
In the Battlefield series, you will get kicked off a server if idle too long.
Somehow them implementing that didn't cause the Universe to implode.
It's enough time for me to take a bathroom break and go to the kitchen and get a beer.
If I get distracted in the kitchen making myself an 8 inch tall Dagwood sandwich, then I might find myself kicked when I get back.
Seems reasonable.
At least I still have the sandwich.
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He talks about it here....
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362537.msg4823819.html#msg4823819
Personally I think there are ways to make it work, its just coading after all.
Yep. I agree. It can be done. I think you could just turn one country off and adjust the ENY values et al. to compensate. It would take some work, but it is doable.
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I wouldn't explain anything either because when he has, then everything he says gets nitpicked to death until he's right back at just saying "no".
It's ok to ask questions I believe but it's not ok to "demand" an answer, or throw a fit when you don't get one. It's ok to discuss these things here but it sucks having to listen to 200 to the constant whining about the game, the game play, the "sky is falling" crap, WHILE PLAYING THE GAME for crying out loud.
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It is important to survey the situation before switching sides.
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about kicking players out after 15 minutes, think twice. I once drove an m3 for 20 to 30 minutes to a base from a port. then waited about another 20 to 30 minutes for base to be clear, when it was clear, i finally turned on the engine and took the base. also had a squadie in an m3 a couple of days ago, he was there for maybe an hour. they put up a big defense with tanks, planes. we finally decided to give up as town still wasnt down but buildings were gonna pop in a few minutes and we had no time to come back fast. we still had a couple of friendly planes and a few of theirs so we just decided to stay there and die. to everybody's surprise the squadie took down a building and wf it in his m3 and let the troops go, we took it.
hitech already gave a good explanation why it doesnt make sense to waste time on coading to kick players that are in tower for a period of time. it was a very simple explanation, but it was picked apart because some players didnt accept it. and that's the reason it keeps coming back time after time.
same reason why we dont have a two sided war. somebody posted that it's a problem when 2 countries gang on another and hord it. well what do you think will happen in a 2 sided war, there's always gonna be one or the other country hording and eny will probably be higher than it is now, to make it unplayable. the same player answer well we have hordes now, true, but then come up with a better excuse. or make a 2 sided map like in the AvA.
as for smaller maps, think small pizza. stratts are so close to the front that they are normally down. so let's move it to the back, well how far back, it's a small map.
anyway, whatever. this thread reminds me of the bring back the H2H arenas, hitech already mention at least a dozen times that we do have them. and yet it keeps popping up, bring them back, and hitech keeps saying but we have them. and then you wonder why he hardly posts an answer.
semp
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It is important to survey the situation before switching sides.
...in order to work around the flaws of a 3-sided arena.
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Maybe always allow people to switch to the low sided team and ot be restricted by the side switch time limit (unless going to the high side).
I still think 3 sides is the way to go to keep the gameplay dynamics from being static.
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Id like to see something done, ANYTHING done. Last night I logged in twice. Bish and Rooks had an ENY of 10-12 both times. Rooks had a double bar trying to take a Bish base, bish had a single bar. No fights on the Knit/rook front, no fight on the bish/knit front. Bish and Rooks had equal numbers according to the roster yet they were out numbered 2 and 3 to 1 at the field the rooks were trying to take.
So my options were...
... to be under the horde in midwar planes, or play by myself on the bish/knit front as a bish
..switch to rooks and part of the horde or play by myself on the rook/knit front
...switch to knits and play by myself on either front.
As I said, I logged in twice, and logged out both times.
Please Hitech, do something!
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He talks about it here....
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,362537.msg4823819.html#msg4823819
Personally I think there are ways to make it work, its just coading after all.
Am still reading but we are discussing two totally different arenas at this point in time. A lot has changed in the arena game plays in 5 years
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I wouldn't explain anything either because when he has, then everything he says gets nitpicked to death until he's right back at just saying "no".
It's ok to ask questions I believe but it's not ok to "demand" an answer, or throw a fit when you don't get one. It's ok to discuss these things here but it sucks having to listen to 200 to the constant whining about the game, the game play, the "sky is falling" crap, WHILE PLAYING THE GAME for crying out loud.
Turn off 200. Game play is much better I hear.
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It is important to survey the situation before switching sides.
Would be easier if there were different colored dars. I have swapped many times thinking there was a hell of a fight on the other front only to guess wrong and like trips said. THEN YOU STUCK FOR 6 hours.
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about kicking players out after 15 minutes, think twice. I once drove an m3 for 20 to 30 minutes to a base from a port. then waited about another 20 to 30 minutes for base to be clear, when it was clear, i finally turned on the engine and took the base. also had a squadie in an m3 a couple of days ago, he was there for maybe an hour. they put up a big defense with tanks, planes. we finally decided to give up as town still wasnt down but buildings were gonna pop in a few minutes and we had no time to come back fast. we still had a couple of friendly planes and a few of theirs so we just decided to stay there and die. to everybody's surprise the squadie took down a building and wf it in his m3 and let the troops go, we took it.
hitech already gave a good explanation why it doesnt make sense to waste time on coading to kick players that are in tower for a period of time. it was a very simple explanation, but it was picked apart because some players didnt accept it. and that's the reason it keeps coming back time after time.
same reason why we dont have a two sided war. somebody posted that it's a problem when 2 countries gang on another and hord it. well what do you think will happen in a 2 sided war, there's always gonna be one or the other country hording and eny will probably be higher than it is now, to make it unplayable. the same player answer well we have hordes now, true, but then come up with a better excuse. or make a 2 sided map like in the AvA.
as for smaller maps, think small pizza. stratts are so close to the front that they are normally down. so let's move it to the back, well how far back, it's a small map.
anyway, whatever. this thread reminds me of the bring back the H2H arenas, hitech already mention at least a dozen times that we do have them. and yet it keeps popping up, bring them back, and hitech keeps saying but we have them. and then you wonder why he hardly posts an answer.
semp
I understand I have seen guys do that. And if you get a pop up warning stating if you don’t move in 3 mins you will be kicked. And it can be as simple as moving a turret gun. You don’t have to crank up and drive just some movement that says ok this guy can fog up a mirror
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I understand I have seen guys do that. And if you get a pop up warning stating if you don’t move in 3 mins you will be kicked. And it can be as simple as moving a turret gun. You don’t have to crank up and drive just some movement that says ok this guy can fog up a mirror
You can have a gv with turret turning around for days.
semp
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Think the best we can hope is maybe hi-tech lower the eny a little. This morning eny was at 29 then it dropped.
semp
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I think most tower sitters are there out of laziness or forgot to log when they went to go do something else and it to spite the game
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I think most tower sitters are there out of laziness or forgot to log when they went to go do something else and it to spite the game
hitech has the numbers and he had posted several times that they are almost equal when he checks.
semp
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Stupid spell check
I meant they are *not* sitting in there to screw anyone over with eny and I agree they probably average out anyway.
I
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Average out between when? Primetime and when nobody plays time?
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hitech has the numbers and he had posted several times that they are almost equal when he checks.
semp
You’re still diluting the action three ways. One country can be ignored—and often is. With two countries EVERY SINGLE PLAYER can meet the point of attack right now not after a 15 minute flight.
2 > 3
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In the Battlefield series, you will get kicked off a server if idle too long.
Somehow them implementing that didn't cause the Universe to implode.
It's enough time for me to take a bathroom break and go to the kitchen and get a beer.
If I get distracted in the kitchen making myself an 8 inch tall Dagwood sandwich, then I might find myself kicked when I get back.
Seems reasonable.
At least I still have the sandwich.
They don't have WWII aircraft. I do not think they compare at all.
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They don't have WWII aircraft. I do not think they compare at all.
Doesn't matter whether they have WWII aircraft or not , the point is that we have too many tower sitters. Sure it averages out over time, but during the fight for a front it skews the numbers far too much.
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Doesn't matter whether they have WWII aircraft or not , the point is that we have too many tower sitters. Sure it averages out over time, but during the fight for a front it skews the numbers far too much.
So there is a number.... how many?
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You’re still diluting the action three ways. One country can be ignored—and often is. With two countries EVERY SINGLE PLAYER can meet the point of attack right now not after a 15 minute flight.
2 > 3
I was talking about people sitting in the tower for a long period of time, it wont matter if there's 1 or 20 as long as the numbers of people sitting in tower are equal in all countries.
semp
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I was talking about people sitting in the tower for a long period of time, it wont matter if there's 1 or 20 as long as the numbers of people sitting in tower are equal in all countries.
semp
My bad. :bhead
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No one ever proved it’s nonsense. . . .
You might want to ask HiTech about that. Also, a $10,000 bottle of whiskey might sway his opinion. Just sayin'.
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You might want to ask HiTech about that. Also, a $10,000 bottle of whiskey might sway his opinion. Just sayin'.
Does he not read the bbs?
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Does he not read the bbs?
Yes and answers the questions. If you read the boards, you will fond the answer he gave. :)
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well the last three days the 3 sides have worked great, I mean great. what a joke
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well the last three days the 3 sides have worked great, I mean great. what a joke
3-side has no mythical war balancing powers, IMHO. Not compared to ENY.
3-sides is great when you had 400-700 players because it tended to spread the fight out.
With less than 200 that is not what you want. You want to concentrate the fight.
Inevitably, with 3 sides and minimal numbers your going to end up with one great fight on the map that 1/3 of the players can't get to.
With two sides, any fight can be accessed equally by all players.
I'm not against 3-sides. I think you should be able to configure for either depending on you current population like you can configure 512 mi maps or 256 mi maps.
With the current numbers, I think 2-sides with sufficient ENY would be better.
By sufficient, I mean at some level maybe even supply ord and fuel are effected. When an outnumbered side is getting free ME-262 and the over-populated side is flying P-40 and can't get more than 1/4 fuel and no bombs or troops, numbers will balance, IMHO.
If you stick a cattle prod up a horse's wazoo, you can teach him to deal a deck of cards. It's simply a matter of voltage. (Don't ask me how I know that.)
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I still believe the benefits of 3 sides outweigh the negatives. Tweak it a bit to penalize the sides with excessive numbers imbalances. Increase ENY effects and remove the side switching time limit when going to the lowest side would be my votes. Smaller maps to keep the fights from getting too spread out.
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3-side has no mythical war balancing powers, IMHO. Not compared to ENY.
3-sides is great when you had 400-700 players because it tended to spread the fight out.
With less than 200 that is not what you want. You want to concentrate the fight.
Inevitably, with 3 sides and minimal numbers your going to end up with one great fight on the map that 1/3 of the players can't get to.
With two sides, any fight can be accessed equally by all players.
I'm not against 3-sides. I think you should be able to configure for either depending on you current population like you can configure 512 mi maps or 256 mi maps.
With the current numbers, I think 2-sides with sufficient ENY would be better.
By sufficient, I mean at some level maybe even supply ord and fuel are effected. When an outnumbered side is getting free ME-262 and the over-populated side is flying P-40 and can't get more than 1/4 fuel and no bombs or troops, numbers will balance, IMHO.
If you stick a cattle prod up a horse's wazoo, you can teach him to deal a deck of cards. It's simply a matter of voltage. (Don't ask me how I know that.)
I still believe the benefits of 3 sides outweigh the negatives. Tweak it a bit to penalize the sides with excessive numbers imbalances. Increase ENY effects and remove the side switching time limit when going to the lowest side would be my votes. Smaller maps to keep the fights from getting too spread out.
Penalizing players without giving them the ability to switch sides to the lower numbered country means you get balance by people logging off. This is counterproductive.
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It's a good thing we can switch sides.
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It's a good thing we can switch sides.
And get stuck when the numbers swing the other way.
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And get stuck when the numbers swing the other way.
Those who fail to try just sit and watch the world go by.
Change sides and fight or just sit in the tower or just go to the BBS and complain. Which sounds like more fun? :aok
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Those who fail to try just sit and watch the world go by.
Change sides and fight or just sit in the tower or just go to the BBS and complain. Which sounds like more fun? :aok
You are just looking for post counts.
I switched to rooks earlier today. Map changed spent 2 hours deacking fields woo hoo ton of fun. Knits ans bish has a raging fight going. We rolled 4 in defended fields. Again woohoo tons of fun. We come to the forums to voice our opinions. If you don’t like them keep moving. You DONT have to interject in every one of the convos. So now I am stuck for 6 hrs and left to fight wirbs and ground guns. Lol
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That's why I think you should.always be allowed to switch to the low side (timer only goes in effect to go back to the high side team)
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Those who fail to try just sit and watch the world go by.
Change sides and fight or just sit in the tower or just go to the BBS and complain. Which sounds like more fun? :aok
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
1) Sides get imbalanced.
2) Player switches to low side for balance.
3) 45 mins later player is now stuck on the high side as numbers swing the other way.
4) Player gets bored and logs off.
5) Hitech loses subscribers.
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I still believe the benefits of 3 sides outweigh the negatives. Tweak it a bit to penalize the sides with excessive numbers imbalances. Increase ENY effects and remove the side switching time limit when going to the lowest side would be my votes. Smaller maps to keep the fights from getting too spread out.
you bastage did you have fun today? and I mean that in a good way, I had fun with a big map. we had the numbers then you guys had the numbers. was fun landing bostons with 30 to 40 perks each time. smaller maps just create another problem. everybody hits the strats with 20 minute runs. then ack, town, ords, radar down for hours. no way to fight like that.
semp
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I'm beginning to wonder if ENY needs a formula adjustment for less than 200 max population Prime Time Window in today's MA.
200 and more players in the MA as the norm in the past, ENY as the formula functions today was not as big a problem as it has become today. And 2-3 guys in Tempests and 262 against 20 guys in garbage rides trying to capture a field is turning the MA into tyranny by the greifer minority becasue ENY doesn't ease you into garbage rides. You start out your evening and log off in nothing but garbage rides. And POTW is a large enough squad, changing country won't fix it. We don't practice pigacide which is why we are one of the largest squads and still intact in the game after 15 years. We have been changing country for the last year to do our part to help the MA's ENY problem. Each country we have been in, on our squad night, everyone knows it's POTW squad night and they long in for the activity our POTW numbers generates. It just ain't working anymore and when the AK's tour change drops them in our country, it's 262 and Tempests versus everything FM2 and below. That is not worth flying into or even upping the garbage ride tanks that won't be competitive against T34\85.
POTW has been grinding in PlanetSide 2 lately becasue of it. At least there dieing constantly earns us something that eventually we can purchase monster armor and weapons to become competitive without having to destroy our squad to not be greifed by a few idiots in Tempests and 262. Vets know ENY has given them our kesters as near free kills no matter how much FSO strategy we use to try and catch them in our "Garbage Rides". Ultimately everyone looses any interest for the evening in doing anything. All of the MA customers loose in the long run even if the three or so guys doing the greifing are landing kills in the short term. In the long term, customers sit in the tower, log off for the night or, go play other games. Watching that in itself for a new player has to be disheartening to want to stay with AH3 and make the decision to get a subscription.
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And 2-3 guys in Tempests and 262 against 20 guys in garbage rides trying to capture a field is turning the MA into tyranny by the greifer minority
So it would be better to have 20 v 3 in equal rides? Really? Sounds like tyranny by the griefer majority to me.
At any rate, I think it would be fine to bump out people who sit in the tower for an extended time. These aren't the days of dial-up connection or arena limits, when there was a real incentive to stay logged on once you got there.
- oldman
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Bring Back titanic Tuesday expect make it a 2 country thing. split the sacrificed country in half to other two
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Bring Back titanic Tuesday expect make it a 2 country thing. split the sacrificed country in half to other two
He has everything coded for three. Would need to disable one country.
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So it would be better to have 20 v 3 in equal rides? Really? Sounds like tyranny by the griefer majority to me.
At any rate, I think it would be fine to bump out people who sit in the tower for an extended time. These aren't the days of dial-up connection or arena limits, when there was a real incentive to stay logged on once you got there.
- oldman
I'm watching customers stop upping and sit in the tower or log off becasue of how ENY is tailored to work for more than 200. ENY garbage ride planes in groups cannot compete against 262, Tempests, 51D, Dora, and F4u-4. All of us vets know this and know how to turn the MA into griefer he!! becasue of it. It's like FSO when everyone knows the garbage ride missions are one way suicide no matter what you try. You can just about tell everyone on their way to a base capture when the 262 and Tempests will pass through. Then like clockwork 15 minutes later the MA is a ghost town. This last Tuesday, we were ENY'd but, the greifers were not online and we were able to compete in garbage rides other than altitude is once again being used in the place of ACM. With ENY and less than 200 prime time as the standard now for the last 5 years or so. Hitech has handed the keys to his customer's happiness to a tyranny by a bored minority of veteran griefers. A tiny number of players are dictating the out come for groups in the MA becasue they are bored with game play and ENY is creating a school of fat slow guppies in a barrel for them to abuse.
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Not garbage rides...... not if the pilot is up to snuff. That and the pilot has numbers..... hence the eny.
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Not garbage rides...... not if the pilot is up to snuff. That and the pilot has numbers..... hence the eny.
It still triggers too soon. Should be inhibited below a higher total player threshold than presently set.
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Not garbage rides...... not if the pilot is up to snuff. That and the pilot has numbers..... hence the eny.
I dont mind flying a P40 against 2 guys, but 4 or 5??????
With less number the ENY should be adjusted to match those numbers. 10 guys leave one side and your stuck flying P40s against 4 or more against one.
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I dont mind flying a P40 against 2 guys, but 4 or 5??????
With less number the ENY should be adjusted to match those numbers. 10 guys leave one side and your stuck flying P40s against 4 or more against one.
eny needs to be lower down a bit with lower numbers, perhaps to 1/2 what it is now. like it's been said before even if the pigs switch to the lower number country then eny hits us on squad night.
semp
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I guess it is just that I am rarely ever affected by eny. In fact I can't remember the last time I could not fly what I fly 99% of the time.
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Where's that thumbs down emoticon????
Edit: Removed my other thoughts as they wouldn't actually contribute to anything.
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With a max of only 180 sometimes only 200 players during the summer and most Weekends. During the week the room peaks at 90 players. The 3 country side is ALWAYS off balance for our Overseas players. 20 Knights 18 Bish 3 Rooks.... It's ridiculous have ENY that accounts for inactive players in the tower for hours at a time.
Switching to a Axis and Alley or whatever name you want to give it will help players, who come on for 10 mins see high ENY and decided its not worth staying to fly 20-30 mins to find a good dogfight for 3 mins and fly home or ditch because they are out of fuel.
Or Fix the Game that when a person is in the tower for more than 15 minutes with no activity they get auto kicked and logged off. This way the ENY is accounting for only Active Players on the game.
how many times do I have to repeat this-HiTech will not change to a 2 country war-he has said this on several occasions, he has tried it on a different game and it didn't work.
2nd--eny is based on how many players are logged into the game, not how many are in the tower.
3rd if ya start kicking tower sitters out of the game the playes will leave for good.
~S~ Mothman :airplane:
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Blah blah blah. You sound like the guys at a corporation I once flew for. I did a fuel study that could have saved the company millions of dollars and averted any potential flight department layoffs.
“We’ve studied this issue and the savings are not significant.”
I tried explaining that at $3 a gallon for Jet-A they may not be significant, but at $10.85 they’re massive.
“[Vraciu]! We’ve studied it already. We have done this for a long time. We know what we are doing.”
Within ten months 30 pilots were laid off along with numerous supporting personnel because of high fuel costs. Duh.
Things change. Two sides WILL work and at this point there is nothing to lose since three sides is a bust at current player levels/map sizes.
Adapt or die.
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No one ever proved it’s nonsense. And if it had been suggested many times over the years there maybe something to it.
The only thing ever said by HTC was “no”. No real reason given on the two sided country deal. During the am hours of the week there maybe forty people logged on and 20 in flight. Why not kick those players that been in the tower for two hours? Every other game does. Is it that it makes the game look fuller than it is? I think it would be better to have a player log in and know the eny actually exists versus the eny existing for guys hoping for 25 Perk points leaving there computer on all day lol
Hitech has also said he tried it on another game and it didn't work
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Hitech has also said he tried it on another game and it didn't work
Time to try again then.
It worked superbly in Warbirds and has worked well in many other games.
Intransigence is not a virtue in and of itself.
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well it's not going to happen, so I'm not going to say anything else other than I know what will happen-I have played long enough to be pretty confident in my assumption.
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2nd--eny is based on how many players are logged into the game, not how many are in the tower.
Uhhhhhmmm.
I think argument was that if people on their side were getting counted for ENY but not fighting, then that was unfair. The counter claim was that those numbers are equal across all sides so it is a wash.
That said, its not an issue I'm pushing. I just pointed out that I've see other game booting inactive players. Do what you want with that info.
:salute
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well it's not going to happen, so I'm not going to say anything else other than I know what will happen-I have played long enough to be pretty confident in my assumption.
You say that as if it were a good thing.
:rolleyes:
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Time to try again then.
It worked superbly in Warbirds and has worked well in many other games.
Air Warrior proved a 3 country system works in a small arena.
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viraciu we do have a 2 country arena and it's always empty.
semp
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Air Warrior proved a 3 country system works in a small arena.
Which is why I also suggested smaller arenas as a possible solution.
The status quo isn’t working. When numbers climb back up then it will.
Being wedded to three sides based on arenas overflowing with players isn’t a good strategy IMO.
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viraciu we do have a 2 country arena and it's always empty.
semp
How many times do I have to explain this?
It is not an MA. It does not have the same settings. It cannot be directly compared.
And if you wanna’ go that route, we have a three-sided arena that’s often near-empty which ain’t exactly proof of success. (It also serves as a default two-sided arena much of the time, with one country ignored by the other two. You have a two-sided arena masquerading as a three-sided one.)
People gravitate to critical mass. If they don’t find it they log off. Simple.
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Time to try again then.
It worked superbly in Warbirds and has worked well in many other games.
Intransigence is not a virtue in and of itself.
hmmmmmm..... Warbirds, Warbirds...... OH I remember now, thats that game that crashed and burned years ago right? :devil
The only way a 2 sided war would work is if you control the number of players per side, forcing them to play on one side or the other as they log in. This would kill squad groups because you would never know which side you were going to be on. I know, you'll say "we took care of that on our own and switched sides to make things even", ya well times change. What worked back them isnt going to work now. Players want to WIN they dont care about an even fight.
well it's not going to happen, so I'm not going to say anything else other than I know what will happen-I have played long enough to be pretty confident in my assumption.
.... and everyone was so positive we would NEVER see a B29 in the game. Never say never.
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The only way a 2 sided war would work is if you control the number of players per side, forcing them to play on one side or the other as they log in.
Really? What magical mechanism does 3-sided have to balance numbers that 2-sided wouldn't?
Lower the side switch to 30 min. Jack-up ENY to Draconian levels so that a a certain point of unbalance even fuel, ord and troop availability are affected. Numbers will balance.
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hmmmmmm..... Warbirds, Warbirds...... OH I remember now, thats that game that crashed and burned years ago right? :devil
Sounds eerily familiar, doesn’t it? :rolleyes:
And it has nothing to do with a two-sided arena.
The only way a 2 sided war would work is if you control the number of players per side, forcing them to play on one side or the other as they log in. This would kill squad groups because you would never know which side you were going to be on. I know, you'll say "we took care of that on our own and switched sides to make things even",
AH is going to crash and burn because we don’t want to hurt anybody’s feewings. Sounds like a great plan.
It’s time for squadrons to fight each other sometimes for fun, then, or pick up a frigging clipboard menu to see where their buddies are.
Yes, we switched sides for balance all the time and it worked just fine. There are plenty of squadrons to spread out and even things. Individuals like myself will switch for balance. There are enough of us to do the job.
ya well times change. What worked back them isnt going to work now. Players want to WIN they dont care about an even fight.
.... and everyone was so positive we would NEVER see a B29 in the game. Never say never.
The irony in this statement is ASTOUNDING.
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Really? What magical mechanism does 3-sided have to balance numbers that 2-sided wouldn't?
Lower the side switch to 30 min. Jack-up ENY to Draconian levels so that a a certain point of unbalance even fuel, ord and troop availability are affected. Numbers will balance.
Bingo.
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Oh, and I wouldn't crow too loudly about WB demise.
When was the last year AH had positive growth in population numbers? 2004? 2006?
Maybe we're just on a shallower glide slope.
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And AW, that other 3-sided war? Dead.
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Oh, and I wouldn't crow too loudly about WB demise.
When was the last year AH had positive growth in population numbers? 2004? 2006?
Maybe we're just on a shallower glide slope.
I marched this death slog in WBs. I’ve been sounding the alarm on this for years. Nobody listens.
At least HT has made some gameplay tweaks to help—like the new “dar” system.
If we don’t do something to: 1) concentrate the action and 2) retain new players then this game is doomed to linger as a shadow of its former glory. The end user is seen by many here as wrong. The veto power of a wallet always wins, regardless. That’s the issue we face.
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From what I hear.... we only have 11 years or so left on this planet anyway. :rofl
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From what I hear.... we only have 11 years or so left on this planet anyway. :rofl
:rofl
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Really? What magical mechanism does 3-sided have to balance numbers that 2-sided wouldn't?
Lower the side switch to 30 min. Jack-up ENY to Draconian levels so that a a certain point of unbalance even fuel, ord and troop availability are affected. Numbers will balance.
Balancing? no, but it does give you options. Switch to a new front and you can get a different type of fight. 2 sided you only have one front.
Sounds eerily familiar, doesn’t it? :rolleyes:
And it has nothing to do with a two-sided arena.
AH is going to crash and burn because we don’t want to hurt anybody’s feewings. Sounds like a great plan.
It’s time for squadrons to fight each other sometimes for fun, then, or pick up a frigging clipboard menu to see where their buddies are.
Yes, we switched sides for balance all the time and it worked just fine. There are plenty of squadrons to spread out and even things. Individuals like myself will switch for balance. There are enough of us to do the job.
The irony in this statement is ASTOUNDING.
That was the point I was trying to make you always say that "back in the day we would switch sides to even things up". That doesnt work any more there just arent enough players willing to do that. Which also goes along with your statements of how things are different "a two sided war didnt work then, but may work now because things change".
On one side of the coin your saying to try the old idea again because things change, yet on the other side of the coin your saying it will work because we use to do it back then. See?
And AW, that other 3-sided war? Dead.
Who knows where that one would have gone had EA not killed it. They had a pretty tight following there and the game was continuing to improve as the tech did. There was lots of "hope" that with the money and tech coming in from EA that the game would really take off, but EA only wanted the code and dumped the games as quick as it could.
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Balancing? no, but it does give you options. Switch to a new front and you can get a different type of fight. 2 sided you only have one front.
This is not true.
There are times when the only way to switch to a new front is to switch teams entirely because the country you are on is being ignored. This then exacerbates the ENY cycle and forces you to sit for four hours until you can switch again.
With two sides EVERY PLAYER can reach the point of attack at any time. With three sides one country can be (and often is) ignored leaving 1/3 of the players (we can assume equal numbers rather than mass log offs for the sake of argument) with nothing to do.
100% > 67%
That was the point I was trying to make you always say that "back in the day we would switch sides to even things up". That doesnt work any more there just arent enough players willing to do that. Which also goes along with your statements of how things are different "a two sided war didnt work then, but may work now because things change".
You still don’t get it. You actually MADE my point. (That’s why it was ironic.). Like it or not things HAVE changed. So we either change with it or go meet the Dodo.
You are advocating a three-sided arena because it used to work.
Well...
ya well times change. What worked back them isnt going to work now.
And you are opposing a two-sided arena because it ALLEGEDLY didn’t work in the past.
Well...
ya well times change. What worked back them isnt going to work now.
On one side of the coin your saying to try the old idea again because things change, yet on the other side of the coin your saying it will work because we use to do it back then. See?
Pot meet kettle. On the one side of the coin you’re saying we should NOT try an old idea again because things don’t change, yet on the other side of the coin you’re saying it won’t work because things change. See?
What we have now does not work and the only excuse for not trying it (other than some coding difficulties that can be overcome with some creative thinking) is the straw man that it will never work. You’ll never know until you try using CURRENT conditions.
Hitech can garner support and goodwill by rolling this out as a trial. People can tough it out for a tour so we can gather data.
Honestly, I don’t care if it runs every veteran out of the game so long as it brings in more players than it loses. But I don’t think it will come to that with some advance notice and a request for patience.
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Balancing? no,
But that is not what you said.
The only way a 2 sided war would work is if you control the number of players per side, forcing them to play on one side or the other as they log in.
You're implying that 2-sides has some special problem with numbers balance that only forced team assignment would solve. That is untrue. 2-sides has no problem with numbers balance that 3-sides doesn't already have. As you now admit.
As to your claim that 3-sides has more options, I disagree when there are low numbers. With low numbers there may only be enough players for one really great all-out fight like the old days. That will inevitably be over on one front where 1/3 of the players can't get over to it. Less fun.
2-sides supports low numbers better. Any fight that occurs in the arena can be equally accessed by all players.
Like I said, it should be configurable. When you get the population back up to 500 a night, 3-sides will rock.
:salute
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I agree there are problems, but in the 18 years I have been here Hitech has always said a 2 sided map isnt going to work. He isnt really known for changing his mind on this stuff. Banging your head on getting a 2 sided war in the MA is a waste of time, there are just too many issues with doing it.
Now making adjustment to what we have could help a bit. A setup where ENY checks the number of players and adjust the scaling of the ENY applied would be great. Lower numbers mean a slower change in the ENY change. It would help help when the numbers are lower. Smaller maps until the numbers go back up. even BUSTR's new maps are too big most of the time these days. They may make for more options, but those options include avoiding other players.
For the most part, I dont think the game really has any problems other than a lack of numbers. The adjustments mentioned are just things to ease game into its death bed, not help it get better. What is needed is for more players to come in, and more players to STAY.
I think the biggest thing would be to make the default setting of the controls mouse and gamepad friendly. Auto set them to make the usable with scaling and buttons setup that mimic other game controls. Sliding the mouse back and forth should make the plane go up and down, but scale it so that a player can actually fly with it strait out of the box. The same goes for gamepads. if that is what they have/want to use make it so it work strait out of the box. Dont chase away these new guys because they cant figure out how to fly in the first 2 minutes.
I think the second biggest thing would be to add a free planeset for the MA. Free planes in the MA is where the new players want to be. Will it generate more conversion to the subscription plan? Maybe, but we wouldnt be a worst off than it is now, but we would have more numbers.
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I think you are right overall.
I think smaller maps would be a big help if we are going to keep three sides.
This is vital.
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I agree there are problems, but in the 18 years I have been here Hitech has always said a 2 sided map isnt going to work. He isnt really known for changing his mind on this stuff.
<Shug>. In 1999 he told me HTC would never work on another game besides Aces High.
Times change. Situations change. Markets change.
Life is change.
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<Shug>. In 1999 he told me HTC would never work on another game besides Aces High.
Times change. Situations change. Markets change.
Life is change.
To me he didnt work on another game. He made a small map, adjusted some of the setting and added his AI guys and called it a different name. Same game, just dumbed down in some areas.
I agree times change and that is probably HTCs biggest problem is they havent kept up with those changes so have lost more and more players along the way. Again the past is the past, It most likely is never going to come back and we need changes here to bring in and keep new players. The game it self is fine, the way it works with the player is the thing that needs to be brought up to date.
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[edit]
Nevermind.
On second thought, I don't think I really even care.
:cool:
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How many times do I have to explain this?
It is not an MA. It does not have the same settings. It cannot be directly compared.
And if you wanna’ go that route, we have a three-sided arena that’s often near-empty which ain’t exactly proof of success. (It also serves as a default two-sided arena much of the time, with one country ignored by the other two. You have a two-sided arena masquerading as a three-sided one.)
People gravitate to critical mass. If they don’t find it they log off. Simple.
a two sided arena will have even bigger eny issues than now. you keep saying that in a 3 sided arena 2 countries will horde the other. and at the same time 1 country gets ignored.
so which one is it?
semp
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a two sided arena will have even bigger eny issues than now. you keep saying that in a 3 sided arena 2 countries will horde the other. and at the same time 1 country gets ignored.
so which one is it?
semp
It's neither. I reject your assertion(s).
As it stands a third of the player base can be completely ignored and we STILL have ENY problems. So, if that same dynamic remains with two sides (it absolutely won't) at least EVERYONE can be involved in the war.
With two sides I can actually fight the horde rather than being stuck across the map fighting only auto flak *and* boredom as it often is with three.
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I reject your terms.
Terms? .... pfffft.
ENY isn't the problem. Player stubbornness may well be, though, whether its 50 players or 500. Chess piece loyalty is just silly.
(Side switching actually becomes *more* necessary with low population. I would agree on side switch time reduction - even with higher population.)
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ENY isn't the problem. Player stubbornness may well be, though, whether its 50 players or 500. Chess piece loyalty is just silly.
You can say that again.
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We should have four countries.
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We should have four countries.
:rofl :aok
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I nominate viraciu as the "chosen one" he can save ah all by himself. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
semp
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We should have four countries.
Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds.
(https://i.imgur.com/MmtVbyp.png)
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It's neither. I reject your assertion(s).
As it stands a third of the player base can be completely ignored and we STILL have ENY problems. So, if that same dynamic remains with two sides (it absolutely won't) at least EVERYONE can be involved in the war.
With two sides I can actually fight the horde rather than being stuck across the map fighting only auto flak *and* boredom as it often is with three.
At the risk of being zotted for cross game comparison.
How does WW2 online do with just 2 sides axis/allies? They don't have an eny system I believe, but use a spawn/join delay when sides are out of balance.
AH has an axis/allies setup for special events, maybe it could be used as a test bed of sorts.
Just throwing things at the wall.
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I nominate viraciu as the "chosen one" he can save ah all by himself. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
semp
That’s the first wise suggestion you’ve made in a long time...
:banana:
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At the risk of being zotted for cross game comparison.
How does WW2 online do with just 2 sides axis/allies? They don't have an eny system I believe, but use a spawn/join delay when sides are out of balance.
AH has an axis/allies setup for special events, maybe it could be used as a test bed of sorts.
Just throwing things at the wall.
Interesting thoughts...
That creative thinking regarding balance should be encouraged.
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I think smaller maps would be a big help if we are going to keep three sides.
Smaller maps, as Vraciu and many others have suggested. And closer distances between bases, as AvA people know. Ack-ack is right, AW flourished with good fights even if you had only 20-30 people online. But the bases were close, and there were only a few bases that could be captured - not the whole frigging map. Some things that contributed to that success - age of the players, individual concepts of what they were there for - may not be reproducible. AH's emphasis on base taking was an obvious change of focus, but the AW relaxed realism people enjoyed that aspect of the game, and they were the majority of players.
Move the bases closer. Maybe restrict the rotation to the smaller maps.
- oldman (remind me...could you even "win the map" in AW?) (I don't remember that, but it was some years ago...)
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It’s both and none at the same time. This evening Saturday about 9pm est. both bish and nots were attacking the rooks. Rooks had about 30 guys bish had 50 and nits had 30. So it’s 80 to 30. Guess what most did? They either went to gvs or logged off. Now fugi was on the bish let’s ask him a question.
Fugi was it fun flying for 2 hrs looking for a fight? No fun intended. It’s not to me.
Now Friday night the nits and bish had a raging fight going on most of the night. There was no way for me to get to that fight with out switching sides. Rooks took some bases but for the most part it was fighting ground guns and wirbs.
That’s both and none described above. And unfortunately there is no way to control how people play but it’s killing the game. Like capt trip said what regulates side balance in a 3 way war? As described adobe there was a huge imbalance of players. As rooks logged of eny for bish went up a lil but honestly what’s the difference in fighting 25 spits 5 and 5 b17s when there are only 5 guys from the other sides upping to defend against them?
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Never happy... either too much fight or not enough.
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Her flippz, let me ask you this, did you have fun Saturday night? Because it looked to me like you did, as for bishops we fought in two fronts.
Semp
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It’s both and none at the same time. This evening Saturday about 9pm est. both bish and nots were attacking the rooks. Rooks had about 30 guys bish had 50 and nits had 30. So it’s 80 to 30. Guess what most did? They either went to gvs or logged off. Now fugi was on the bish let’s ask him a question.
Fugi was it fun flying for 2 hrs looking for a fight? No fun intended. It’s not to me.
Now Friday night the nits and bish had a raging fight going on most of the night. There was no way for me to get to that fight with out switching sides. Rooks took some bases but for the most part it was fighting ground guns and wirbs.
That’s both and none described above. And unfortunately there is no way to control how people play but it’s killing the game. Like capt trip said what regulates side balance in a 3 way war? As described adobe there was a huge imbalance of players. As rooks logged of eny for bish went up a lil but honestly what’s the difference in fighting 25 spits 5 and 5 b17s when there are only 5 guys from the other sides upping to defend against them?
Was it fun? Yes and no. I had fun with the banter of the couple of squadies that were on.... most of the Pigs are a bit off the deep end :) and I got a couple of long buff runs in while I was watching the Bruins game on TV..... multi tasking.... but as far as "fights" go? Not much going on. A5 was a almost 2 hour capture but only had 2-4 planes for air cover while the Bish had ENY restrictions and a 2-3 vs 1 there. The Knits kept trying to sneak bases in the south and did so a couple time last night and would disappear as soon as a few Bish showed up to slow them down.
Low numbers and poor game play are both making it harder and harder to log in. The Pigs, one of the very few big squads in the game are trying out other games looking for some of the "fun" this game use to have.
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Smaller maps, as Vraciu and many others have suggested. And closer distances between bases, as AvA people know. Ack-ack is right, AW flourished with good fights even if you had only 20-30 people online. But the bases were close, and there were only a few bases that could be captured - not the whole frigging map. Some things that contributed to that success - age of the players, individual concepts of what they were there for - may not be reproducible. AH's emphasis on base taking was an obvious change of focus, but the AW relaxed realism people enjoyed that aspect of the game, and they were the majority of players.
Move the bases closer. Maybe restrict the rotation to the smaller maps.
- oldman (remind me...could you even "win the map" in AW?) (I don't remember that, but it was some years ago...)
Think base captures were introduced in Air Warrior in Air Warrior 3 and then later expanded to depot captures in Air Warrior 3MV. AW4W (AW Classic) and Air Warrior 2 didn't have field captures except for the N bases around Big Pond.
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With a max of only 180 sometimes only 200 players during the summer and most Weekends. During the week the room peaks at 90 players. The 3 country side is ALWAYS off balance for our Overseas players. 20 Knights 18 Bish 3 Rooks.... It's ridiculous have ENY that accounts for inactive players in the tower for hours at a time.
Switching to a Axis and Alley or whatever name you want to give it will help players, who come on for 10 mins see high ENY and decided its not worth staying to fly 20-30 mins to find a good dogfight for 3 mins and fly home or ditch because they are out of fuel.
Or Fix the Game that when a person is in the tower for more than 15 minutes with no activity they get auto kicked and logged off. This way the ENY is accounting for only Active Players on the game.
~S~ Mothman :airplane:
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Don't you think this would have been suggested many, many, many times over the years? It's also been proven nonsense long ago!
Auto kick has been proven as nonsense? The rest of the online gaming community has it all wrong? Hi-Tech tried this already? You are talking smack, most likely!
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people inactive for more than 25 minutes should be punted.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You don't have to kick them out, just exclude them from any relevant equations auch as ENY and perhaps grey them out in the roster and show status as AFK.
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As long as they are excluded from affecting the game, sure grey them out in the roster.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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:D