A smart pilot, using some level of situational awareness, doesn’t takeoff in a heavy with obstructions off the end of the runway.
You would think this is standard practice. :D
Not having flown bombers in well over ten years, especially the B-29, is there a technique that works best for it, i.e. flap configuration, power run up before brake release, etc (except of course, an awareness of obstacles off the end of the runway)?
Lots of "smart" people here ;)
This is a large field, for bombers. The end of the runway is into the sea. Trees here is just stupid, plain and simple.
(https://i.imgur.com/EYKUZ15.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5GNSsAe.jpg)
Yikes, you weren't kidding. Still, I think Puma's and my point stands. I have learned that hard lesson before, it takes planning and scouting to find the suitable B-29 field.
1. Pick runway carefully, preferably at or near SL and with a downslope or no trees down the way for a LONG time. Also pick loadout carefully.
2. Use WEP.
3. When you get off the ground, you have to fight for airspeed, not altitude. The more you pull back, the more you slow down, then you start losing altitude. It is very painful but you have to climb tediously foot by foot. Once you finally get above say 160 IAS then you are climbing at a slow rate, but it is much more manageable. I usually wait until I'm at 3k AGL for me to go afk.
What flap configuration?
Sure it takes planning and scouting to find a suitable B-29 field NOW, but does the game have to continue to be that way?
Still not an HT problem.
Who chooses the maps? It's an obvious QC problem.
Short list for B-29 takeoff with 40 X 500lb. bombload and 50% fuel.
1) Large Airfield at sea level choosing longest runway.
2) Raise flaps to 0 degrees.
3) Hold C and V for brakes while pushing full throttle to get maximum engine power.
4) release brakes.
5) Auto takeoff will not climb before end of runway so manual climb will be necessary to avoid any trees or buildings.
6) When wheels leave pavement and on dirt or grass, lower flaps 20 degrees and manually lift into air.
7) Raise landing gear immediately.
8) Once clear of trees or objects, raise flaps and level off to gain speed.
9) Once speed has been achieved, slowly climb with joystick.
Practice OFFLINE until you have mastered those steps.
Wasn't there a mission many moons ago that saw about 10-15 players go pop on a hillside in buffs shortly after t/o?Ahhhh. Betty's first bomber mission. Was like 20-30 sets out of the hangar into the mountain.
Wasn't there a mission many moons ago that saw about 10-15 players go pop on a hillside in buffs shortly after t/o?
Yikes, you weren't kidding. Still, I think Puma's and my point stands. I have learned that hard lesson before, it takes planning and scouting to find the suitable B-29 field.
Yes I know. Lots of large fields eats B-29s for breakfast (which is stupid enough as it is). But, this particular field is just way over the top. A runway that practically extends out into the sea, and there are trees at the end? In real life, if aircraft were based on an airfield (which usually is where aircraft are based), there would be no bloody trees practically on the runway threshold.
Reading the posts her, I don't know what is most at odd; trees on the runway threshold, or people actually defending trees on the runway threshold as something a "pilot" should be aware of :headscratch:
The runway layout with tree's so close, that heavy P 47's, et al, even with wep and flaps still hit trees trying to take off. The planner or planner's must to have been in the Army. The tree's also make it difficult when you're trying to land a crippled plane.
Mr High Tech, c u t d o w n t h o s e t r e e' s.
Same map, same field, same direction - 40 500 lb. bombs and 75% fuel
On Auto take off... You got to be kidding ! :banana:
On Auto take off... You got to be kidding ! :banana:Spending 350 perks on the best bomber of WWII and relying on auto take off... Ooph.
Spending 350 perks on the best bomber of WWII and relying on auto take off... Ooph.
I'm very close with AKKuya's procedures. Couple things I do differently..
Engage WEP before releasing brakes on roll-out.
But I'm not 'lifting off at best climb speed.' I grab the yoke and rotate when my IAS hits 120 (you'll see 'auto' go from 'takeoff' to 'off' at that point). What the runway run on auto does for me is eliminate the need for manual rudder input. I've seen no reason to takeoff in any plane dancing my rudders all the way down the runway since I've adopted this method (though, obviously, I did exactly that at one point).
I guess I'm confused. I quoted the OP and am not questioning your methods.
My point being that the OP seemingly was relying on auto-takeoff the entire way. Even the slightest amount of input makes the trees avoidable.
Here's hoping you reconsider after giving it some thought. It's not like this community didn't respond and offer you good advice and even an opportunity to wing up. :cheers:
Most of you just talked down to him. Your solutions to help him were "Well dont do that!"
In the old days, you let Skuzzy know which map, which field and direction and he got the trees removed from that runway.
Same map, same field, same direction - 40 500 lb. bombs and 75% fuel
Figured I'd try at 100% fuel (though that seems like overkill):
Same map, same field, same direction - 40 500 lb. bombs and 100 fuel
Even so, I wouldn't select that field on that map for a strat run (but I hardly do strat runs - town bombing yields higher points [at least that's what I've found]).
That tail strike.
Most of you just talked down to him. Your solutions to help him were "Well dont do that!"
In the old days, you let Skuzzy know which map, which field and direction and he got the trees removed from that runway.
This game forces you to do silly stuff to avoid palm trees lol :DIs it any more silly than dive-bombing sets of Lancasters or Fw 190Ds pulling 10Gs while stick stirring?
Since when? I'm wondering about the way you 'remember' things quite often. And 'talked down to him?' Seriously? Disagreeing or having a different pov on who is or isn't 'to blame' (if you can remember, he came here to blame someone and many of us merely offered him a different perspective to consider) - those responses are anything but 'talking down to someone.' Members of the community gave him some sincere advice on how not to lose those B-29 perks. This wasn't an issue requiring your defense of someone being maligned.
Now .... ahem.
No auto-takeoff, no external view, even. Offered as a mere example of how AH players 'can do' the full realism (probably aided by my dial-up analog AW days):
Example once again offered .... so is the offer to wing together in buffs and have lots of fun in AHIII.
If this isn't good enough, Fugi, have a fit in this thread about how mean and awful I treated the OP. :D
I could have swore I saw a video somewhere of somebody taking a B29 off a carrier.
I couldnt find the Skuzzy one I was thinking of, but this one works too.Nope...that ain't it.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,380847.msg5072821.html#msg5072821
Everytime someone comes in with any kind of complaint a number of you feel the need to point out how wrong they are and there is nothing wrong with the game. Well your wrong.
A better way to handle it may have been to just have him send a note to Hitech and ask him to check it out, and then drop it. If a person has a complaint, to them its important. All you guys seem to try to do is brush it off and make them feel like they have wasted their time. In this case the player decided he didnt get an answer he could live with and canceled his subscription. With the low numbers, we cant afford to chase ANY player away?
I believe its called deplomacy. A little hand holding may go a long way in keeping some of these players who are leaving.
I couldnt find the Skuzzy one I was thinking of, but this one works too.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,380847.msg5072821.html#msg5072821
Every time someone comes in with any kind of complaint a number of you feel the need to point out how wrong they are and there is nothing wrong with the game. Well (you're) wrong.
A better way to handle it may have been to just have him send a note to Hitech and ask him to check it out, and then drop it. If a person has a complaint, to them its important. All you guys seem to try to do is brush it off and make them feel like they have wasted their time. In this case the player decided he didn't get an answer he could live with and canceled his subscription. With the low numbers, we cant afford to chase ANY player away?
I believe its called (diplomacy). A little hand holding may go a long way in keeping some of these players who are leaving.
Wasn't there a mission many moons ago that saw about 10-15 players go pop on a hillside in buffs shortly after t/o?
The B29 film showed the wheel at the very edge of the deck because I remember they mentioned an area where the wheel would not be on the deck. Man, I gotta find that film
Yes I know. Lots of large fields eats B-29s for breakfast (which is stupid enough as it is). But, this particular field is just way over the top. A runway that practically extends out into the sea, and there are trees at the end? In real life, if aircraft were based on an airfield (which usually is where aircraft are based), there would be no bloody trees practically on the runway threshold.
Reading the posts her, I don't know what is most at odd; trees on the runway threshold, or people actually defending trees on the runway threshold as something a "pilot" should be aware of :headscratch:
Sure it takes planning and scouting to find a suitable B-29 field NOW, but does the game have to continue to be that way?
:furious
For instance at SW take off A82 in Grinder MA. And that is far from the only one.
344 bomber perk points out the window because of trees at the end. This is simply way too stupid. With my sporadic playing of this game, it will take a couple of years before I can fly the B29 again and do some real strat runs.
And some are wondering why people leave this game...
Trees and airports are a fact of life. That’s why you have performance charts.
Looks like the trees are cleared out at the end of the runway... and it is not a bomber airfield!
I don't think we need every small airfield to be able to take off in fully loaded B-29s, but who goes through all the engineering work of making a paved airfield to not even clear out trees at the end of the runway?
B29 Take off,
HTC Has been working with the CAF to launch a product branded as a CAF product (final name still to be determined) but is essentially AH and will be playing in the melee for at least 6 months.
So I was demoing the new stuff at the CAF convention at the end of feb and had many of their pilots testing it. Their chief pilot was incredible to watch. I challenge him to take a fully loaded B29 (he has many hours flying FIFI and does all check rides) and yep he got off the first time stall blaring. First thing he said when he got in the plane was that's exactly what it looks like, that cross (he points at screen) is always directly where you wish to look.
He proceeded to fly and then land only thing I helped with was setting RPM where he wanted it, on landing he said yep that's exactly how it lands flat like that (he is was fly by numbers i.e. this many inch's excetera) his only criticism was that it rolled to fast. We never had been able to find real data on its roll rates.
When he was flying the p51 he was doing areo over the runway including a hangar fly thew, this from a guy who never flew AH or pc sims. I was amazed at his ability to stay spatially orientated to maneuver line up and land with out the map.
HiTech
B29 Take off,
HTC Has been working with the CAF to launch a product branded as a CAF product (final name still to be determined) but is essentially AH and will be playing in the melee for at least 6 months.
So I was demoing the new stuff at the CAF convention at the end of feb and had many of their pilots testing it. Their chief pilot was incredible to watch. I challenge him to take a fully loaded B29 (he has many hours flying FIFI and does all check rides) and yep he got off the first time stall blaring. First thing he said when he got in the plane was that's exactly what it looks like, that cross (he points at screen) is always directly where you wish to look.
He proceeded to fly and then land only thing I helped with was setting RPM where he wanted it, on landing he said yep that's exactly how it lands flat like that (he is was fly by numbers i.e. this many inch's excetera) his only criticism was that it rolled to fast. We never had been able to find real data on its roll rates.
When he was flying the p51 he was doing areo over the runway including a hangar fly thew, this from a guy who never flew AH or pc sims. I was amazed at his ability to stay spatially orientated to maneuver line up and land with out the map.
HiTech
Can we improve the damage model in the game too?
I mean, if I crash into those trees, I expect them to be gone the next time I up. ;) :x :banana:
:bolt:
If, you noticed, the Cirrus pilot made mention of clearing the obstacles and dumping the nose. He made a safe, calculated, professional approach and dealt with the conditions presented.
Continuing to complain about a game runway, at one game field, that has game trees on only one end of the runway, and a completely obstacle clear departure on the other end, doesn’t make sense, other than just needing something to complain about. Especially, when you don’t have to taxi to the other end like the Cirrus had to do. All you have to do is press a button on the clipboard and BOOM! You’ve got trees in your rear view mirror.
It’s apparent to all, you don’t like that cluster of trees on the end of the runway. Hopefully, you aren’t getting too stressed about it. Stress, especially about something in game, isn’t good for your health. Be healthy. Have fun with the game. :salute
You shouldn't have to worry about silly stuff like TREES at the end of the runway. Period. I can buy a resource-limited decision, but there is NO excuse to deliberately keep the game this way and just tell people that they need to be better pilots.
Shoot, we should all just air spawn in the MA, then. Mind you, no auto-takeoff when spawning. :D
Unlimited ammo with auto convergence and no drop and .01 burn rate while we're at it. :airplane:
The point of this game is the accessibility. It is nice to hop into a big arena with a bunch of planes in a war-like setting without having to worry about engine temperature, RPM overspeeds, mixture settings, we have a bloody in-game E6B too! I personally don't mind taxiing, but it is nice to have a beer and not have to run through a whole checklist to start flying, especially when introducing the game to new sim players.
You shouldn't have to worry about silly stuff like TREES at the end of the runway. Period. I can buy a resource-limited decision, but there is NO excuse to deliberately keep the game this way and just tell people that they need to be better pilots.
Some folks are just not B29 capable.
There's a reason why I play Aces High and not War Thunder mate.
Is that why you feel safe in your teeny weeny P-38? :neener:
Simple: Take off toward the ocean.......NOT THE TREES. It’s only silly, and a problem, because you insist on it being so. And yes, if you can’t figure out how to not takeoff into an obstacle, you do need to be a better pilot.
With all due respect, the OP posted an image where the trees were at the end of the runway leading to the ocean.
I am with Fugi. When I read the first page of this thread I was amazed at how many responses were of the nature of "Dude, you are an idiot, why didn't you do something else...." Of course in your minds that may not have been what you meant however that is exactly how it came across. Then some double down and post films of them doing it just to make sure the guy knows he is a dweeb and he should accept the judgement.
My view is the game is for fun and putting little gotchas in the way is not a desired condition. You need to attract players not piss them off to the point they go play one of the many alternatives.
With all due respect, the OP posted an image where the trees were at the end of the runway leading to the ocean.
I am with Fugi. When I read the first page of this thread I was amazed at how many responses were of the nature of "Dude, you are an idiot, why didn't you do something else...." Of course in your minds that may not have been what you meant however that is exactly how it came across. Then some double down and post films of them doing it just to make sure the guy knows he is a dweeb and he should accept the judgement.
My view is the game is for fun and putting little gotchas in the way is not a desired condition. You need to attract players not piss them off to the point they go play one of the many alternatives.
"Dude, you are an idiot, why didn't you do something else...."
The first response essentially called him a dumb pilot. Not a great response to an obviously new guy.
Respectfully, are you guys honestly saying that trees at the end of the runways are intended gameplay? Pretty sure I've seen HT remove them when they were reported at some point.Agreed.
If I were building an airfield, I personally would likely take down unnecessary obstacles at the end of runways, I believe that's what they did IRL. I'm skeptical that they're there intentionally.
With that said, it's a good idea to look in the direction you're heading when you're taking off too.
Wiley.
Agreed.
Devil looked at the AH2 version of the map and they weren't there, therefore it was some AH3 conversion automated process that added them.
I still can't see what the problem is, with removing some tree's. It's not brain surgery you know.
How much work is there, to remove some tree's
I still can't see what the problem is, with removing some tree's. It's not brain surgery you know.
How much work is there, to remove some tree'sNever tried building a simple terrain I guess.
:furious
For instance at SW take off A82 in Grinder MA. And that is far from the only one.
344 bomber perk points out the window because of trees at the end. This is simply way too stupid. With my sporadic playing of this game, it will take a couple of years before I can fly the B29 again and do some real strat runs.
And some are wondering why people leave this game...
I'm not sure a loaded B29 with flaps and WEP would be high enough to clear those palms but, high enough to be safe over the water if the palms are not there.
:furious
For instance at SW take off A82 in Grinder MA. And that is far from the only one.
344 bomber perk points out the window because of trees at the end. This is simply way too stupid. With my sporadic playing of this game, it will take a couple of years before I can fly the B29 again and do some real strat runs.
And some are wondering why people leave this game...
When is FESS going to join us in the MA for a round of Shoosty Planey?
You mean dumb it down.... just say it.
Helping folks is good... changing game for them is not.
I find this funny. You are playing a dumbed down game. I can only guess there is a level of 'dumbed down' which you feel is appropriate.
I think leaving artifacts for people to trip over is lazy on the part of the designer. Blaming people when they have a poor experience in game by tripping over that artifact is madness.
Current arena today: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1011563885672850813/1062344E4A7CFACEB6B59163F2BC37D2AB91D606/
Base: A15, north/south runway. Map: Bowlma
Fess... it must be a sad life haunting the boards of a game you hate so much.
Arlo, it isnt about that base being able to take off in b29s, its about the BS trees at end of runway. I dont think even a b24 can take off there on autopilot.
I don’t hate the game at all. It is a great game.
Surprised you chose to deflect rather than address the dumbed down and lazy aspects of my post.
Arlo, it isnt about that base being able to take off in b29s, its about the BS trees at end of runway. I dont think even a b24 can take off there on autopilot.
He is not
:furious
For instance at SW take off A82 in Grinder MA. And that is far from the only one.
344 bomber perk points out the window because of trees at the end. This is simply way too stupid. With my sporadic playing of this game, it will take a couple of years before I can fly the B29 again and do some real strat runs.
And some are wondering why people leave this game...
Short list for B-29 takeoff with 40 X 500lb. bombload and 50% fuel.
1) Large Airfield at sea level choosing longest runway.
2) Raise flaps to 0 degrees.
3) Hold C and V for brakes while pushing full throttle to get maximum engine power.
4) release brakes.
5) Auto takeoff will not climb before end of runway so manual climb will be necessary to avoid any trees or buildings.
6) When wheels leave pavement and on dirt or grass, lower flaps 20 degrees and manually lift into air.
7) Raise landing gear immediately.
8) Once clear of trees or objects, raise flaps and level off to gain speed.
9) Once speed has been achieved, slowly climb with joystick.
Practice OFFLINE until you have mastered those steps.
:airplane:>====|<When I was flight instructing regularly one on the scenarios I would set up is to draw a runway with a tree close to the end of the runway. I would then draw a airplane on the other end of the runway and ask the student how he would take off to avoid the tree? Well the simple answer is taxi to the end of the runway with the tree and takeoff the other direction in a no wind condition. Amazing how many students didn't think like that.
:airplane:>====|<When I was flight instructing regularly one on the scenarios I would set up is to draw a runway with a tree close to the end of the runway. I would then draw a airplane on the other end of the runway and ask the student how he would take off to avoid the tree? Well the simple answer is taxi to the end of the runway with the tree and takeoff the other direction in a no wind condition. Amazing how many students didn't think like that.
All 3 would 100% remove the problem if implemented correctly.
- Remove trees from end of runway
- Train pilots to increase flying skill
- Train pilots to make better runway choices
Now, which of these solutions will 100% remove the problem?
You are all into your flying so let's take the scenario that several aircraft have crashed into trees at the end of the runway. I say several because many players have experienced this issue.
- Remove trees from end of runway
- Train pilots to increase flying skill
- Train pilots to make better runway choices
Now, which of these solutions will 100% remove the problem?
All 3 would 100% remove the problem if implemented correctly.
Perhaps next time we can make terrains completely flat with no trees so no one hits trees or hills.
Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?
Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?
Atleast 100ft
The solution is leave the game and the fields alone and let those who are capable of logical thought processes figure out how to select a proper field and runway for the plane they choose to fly. Quit trying to force HiTech to do your bidding, a highly unlikely event. It gets old having some people just push for ridiculous things in order to gain some form of personal acknowledgment.
Not wanting trees at the end of the runway is a ridiculous request or feedback? LOL
Wrong. Training people has never eliminated problems, it is a mitigation but never a pure error proof approach
Surely the simple answer is to chop the tree down?
I would love to see some of you guys get involved in root cause analysis. You are all into your flying so let's take the scenario that several aircraft have crashed into trees at the end of the runway. I say several because many players have experienced this issue.
From this thread, the possible root causes:
Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?
Well, think about this. Player A runs his B-29s into trees and loses a backside-load worth of perks so he starts a thread about how this was HT's fault and this is why players are leaving the game in droves (this was after he already quit). This inspires player B to look for runways with trees near them on all maps now and demand tree removal (without even testing the runway to see if the trees actually present a problem).
(See where I'm going with this?)
I don't expect it to be fixed instantly and people in the meantime need to plan around it (if they are aware of it, hopefully), but if people get s*** on for pointing out such a ridiculous thing, then why even provide feedback at all? If the issue can't even be acknowledged then yes, why continue playing this game when this is just one frustration out of many? And if player feedback isn't welcome, then perhaps start a sticky to warn everyone to not even bother.
Hotstuff would pass out coming out or landing at Sibson AF.
One end of the runway is a woods full of 35foot trees that induce horrific thermals and at the other end, huge Electrical pylons and wires in hundreds of feet. :old:
http://www.abct.org.uk/airfields/airfield-finder/sibson-ii-peterborough-sport/
Well that is an interesting question. Let's allow for the most basic level of ability during take off. That would be auto pilot.
How far do you think the trees should be cleared for autopilot to be able to effect a successful take off?
RAF Cosford
(https://i.imgur.com/6OgPXoR.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Cosford
To all who are outraged by the trees at the end of runway 28 RAF Cosford's making things worse, this letter will be of particular interest. Unlike the pleas of tree lovers, what I'm about to write is supported in scientific scholarship by overwhelming evidence. For instance, what really irks me is that trees at the end of runway 28 RAF Cosford have presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let them devalue us as pilots or they will impugn the patriotism of their foes (pilots). Now that I've said what I had to say, I should remark that this letter may not endear me to some trees. Indeed, it may even cost me a close tree or two. However, the Ministry of Shrubbery does not let pilots chop down trees willy-nilly (like trees at the end of runway 28 RAF Cosford). But the truth is the truth and we pay a steep price whenever we ignore it. Why does the Royal Family hate us so? Amen.
Well that is an interesting question. Let's allow for the most basic level of ability during take off. That would be auto pilot.
How far do you think the trees should be cleared for autopilot to be able to effect a successful take off?
That is runway 24 as captioned on the web site referenced. You are on the wrong runway, some would say that is an indication you need additional training.
Notwithstanding that, there are 2 things of note about that photo.
- Photographs tend to foreshorten landscapes. There is no way to know ho far from the end of the runway those trees are
- The trees appear to be in a depression in the ground. It is hard to tell from the shown angle however it is possible that the tops of those trees are actually below the surface level of the runway and therefore pose no threat.
With or without auto-takeoff it would differ from plane to plane ... but to keep this thread simple and on track the OP was focused on the B-29 perk ride.
1. Should the B-29 be a practical choice of rides from every airfield on every runway in every direction on every map?
2. On every field but small ones?
3. On all large fields no matter where they are placed without regard?
4. Should crashing them on takeoff (trees or not) be immune from costing us perks?
Bzzzzzt! Wrong answer. MA privileges revoked. :D
- Probably not
- I believe that would be appropriate
- In terms of taking off i.e. in powered flight for more than say 30 seconds, yes.
- No
You know I was kidding, right Fess? I find this whole 'tree at the end of the runway' forum protest/serious debate rather funny. C'mon back to the fold and fly in the MA. Perhaps your pristine presence will inspire. Shooting me down might make you feel better. :cool: