Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: StokesAk on October 21, 2020, 04:13:40 PM
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I logged in to the MA for the first time in a WHILE yesterday. I was glad to see so many familiar names, and to see the community is still going strong.
I do have two thoughts, which I am sure has been discussed before.
1. Why do we still have three active countries when there are less than 100 people in the MA most of the day?
As all of you know, two counties tend to "gang-up" on a third country, who usually has the fewest players. This creates a situation where country A and country B are both fighting country C, but not fighting each other. In practice this means there is one fight for country A and B, but too many fights to handle for country C. Many people have complained about "horde" tactics recently, but can you blame them? If there is only one fight for country A and B, everyone must join the horde if they want to see an enemy name tag.
Wouldn't it make a little sense if there were only two counties these days? In my mind this means there are multiple fights between the two countries, and players can spread more evenly across these fights if they chose to do so. This would also help alleviate many issues with ENY because it is only compared against one enemy country, not two.
Possible issues with this include:
-alienating players who want to stay loyal to their country
-most, if not all, the maps are balanced around having three countries
-winning the map would become much harder in a two country war, maybe with some tweaking to the victory conditions would be needed.
I'd like to hear the communities thoughts on this. Maybe I am not seeing something, and I have admittedly not played the game too much in the past five years.
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let me see, 2 countries gang up on the other.
to fix it, let's have only 2 countries, because it's been proven, it's impossible to horde with only 2 countries.
semp
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Use search....... lots of info in past old threads.
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It'll be extremely hard to find the ENY disgust ones.
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Use search....... lots of info in past old threads.
No there’s not a lot of info on why there’s still three countries. Except the old tried and tried reply of “because it did not work 20 years ago”. But I see that post count still rising wtg.
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Post count envy is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen someone post about. I'd gladly donate my count to people who seem to think it matters. I've never seen anyone with a high post count pretend that it did.
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https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400339.msg5307229.html#msg5307229
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No there’s not a lot of info on why there’s still three countries. Except the old tried and tried reply of “because it did not work 20 years ago”. But I see that post count still rising wtg.
And the same holds true now. It is B.S that a 3 country system can't work with a small population arena, Air Warrior proved that when 100 players was the max arena population over 20 years ago.
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1 side would always have more players and the complaints would begin.
You cannot auto place players for balance because players would leave who can't fly with squad and friends.
The side who is about to win typically attracts more players, thus creating embalance.
"Spies" would be more prevalent as you'd only need to do it to one team.
Generally the lowest # team is not always getting gained or losing the war.
The lower #s team can gain the advantage by attacking the side who is busy attacking the other in a big furball.
3 sides means at some point the other 2 teams have to fight each other if they want the win. The lower #s side or side with least bases can use that opportunity to take bases back.
2 sides is not the issue.
Base distance, layout, and size of maps is. Maps like Bowl MA where players are scattered everywhere and there are 120 bases, and you cannot easily roll to fight both sides at the same time. maps that have 22+ miles in between bases. Maps where players can easily find the action and get into a fight.
There will always be side embalance, but it doesn't mean one side will be better than the others. The sides actually become pretty even in the afternoon.
When you are talking about low #s. Its really beneficial to have a smaller map with bases that have a good layout so all teams can fight each other and you can reach a fight where the other teams are fighting. That's what really makes the fights fun.
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Seriously... if you don't like the game... it's not for you.
Told a player that the other day and he said... no I love the game. All he ever does is complain. He didn't realize that the real problem was him.
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Seriously... if you don't like the game... it's not for you.
Told a player that the other day and he said... no I love the game. All he ever does is complain. He didn't realize that the real problem was him.
I can be like that sometimes, ill admit. Sometimes the game makes me heated due to long sorties being ruined or puff ack blowing me outa the sky with 6kills from 8k away. I love the game but it can anger me. Just the nature of the game.
The only thing I really hate is sitting in the tower not being able to partake in air combat with other fighters. My reasoning about base layout and distance is that during the off hours, low #s need to be confined in a smaller map that has closer bases. This allows players to quickly reach a fight. Most new players thrive off being able to fight more quickly. It helps them learn and keeps them active. If a new player has to consistently fly 5 minutes to fight one guy in a plane he has no idea or alt of the guy, then dies quickly every time, he's going to have a hard time. If he could fight more players quickly, he wouldn't care about dying in order to learn and get better. We need maps that engage players. When you have BowlMA on at 2AM with 20 players. It really is not good. These kind of maps bleed players quickly at night because the furball dies and too many bases spread out the players, furball players log earlier. Long distance bases really kill the fights going into off hours.
That's just my observation over the years.
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Welcome back Stokes!
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Strokes, a name I remember, jolly good show!
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I can be like that sometimes, ill admit. Sometimes the game makes me heated due to long sorties being ruined or puff ack blowing me outa the sky with 6kills from 8k away. I love the game but it can anger me. Just the nature of the game.
The only thing I really hate is sitting in the tower not being able to partake in air combat with other fighters. My reasoning about base layout and distance is that during the off hours, low #s need to be confined in a smaller map that has closer bases. This allows players to quickly reach a fight. Most new players thrive off being able to fight more quickly. It helps them learn and keeps them active. If a new player has to consistently fly 5 minutes to fight one guy in a plane he has no idea or alt of the guy, then dies quickly every time, he's going to have a hard time. If he could fight more players quickly, he wouldn't care about dying in order to learn and get better. We need maps that engage players. When you have BowlMA on at 2AM with 20 players. It really is not good. These kind of maps bleed players quickly at night because the furball dies and too many bases spread out the players, furball players log earlier. Long distance bases really kill the fights going into off hours.
That's just my observation over the years.
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Welcome back but don't count on reducing sides from 3 to 2 as that would require major coding.
Eagler
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Seriously... if you don't like the game... it's not for you.
Told a player that the other day and he said... no I love the game. All he ever does is complain. He didn't realize that the real problem was him.
Ahh yes, conveying to players that they are the problem is a good way to retain people. :rolleyes:
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Ahh yes, conveying to players that they are the problem is a good way to retain people. :rolleyes:
Well we can jump around the facts and just blame everything else. If people would work to make sides even, there would be no need for eny. Cause and effect.
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Welcome back but don't count on reducing sides from 3 to 2 as that would require major coding.
Eagler
While it may effect certain gameplay mechanisms like ENY and what to do with the country that won't be available, 2 countries could be easily adapted using the settings and maybe some new maps that has the third country HQ and other necessary map items placed out of the area of play or disabled.
The special events arena does this for every event. Just pick two countries to represent the two and banish the third country to the Aces High Gulag, or you could be more diplomatic and rotate the 2 countries.
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While it may effect certain gameplay mechanisms like ENY and what to do with the country that won't be available, 2 countries could be easily adapted using the settings and maybe some new maps that has the third country HQ and other necessary map items placed out of the area of play or disabled.
The special events arena does this for every event. Just pick two countries to represent the two and banish the third country to the Aces High Gulag, or you could be more diplomatic and rotate the 2 countries.
Pretty sure HT's mentioned at some points in the past that 3 countries is pretty fundamental to how the game is coded, particularly with regard to the MA. By the sound of what's gone before, it's not that simple.
Wiley.
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While it may effect certain gameplay mechanisms like ENY and what to do with the country that won't be available, 2 countries could be easily adapted using the settings and maybe some new maps that has the third country HQ and other necessary map items placed out of the area of play or disabled.
The special events arena does this for every event. Just pick two countries to represent the two and banish the third country to the Aces High Gulag, or you could be more diplomatic and rotate the 2 countries.
I don't think the war victory conditions would currently work with two country as coaded.
Might goof up the ENY algorithm ( :rofl) as well.
Special Events don't have those constraints.
:salute
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I don't think the war victory conditions would currently work with two country as coaded.
Might goof up the ENY algorithm ( :rofl) as well.
Special Events don't have those constraints.
:salute
There's no lack of people that would love to attack empty fields.
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There's no lack of people that would love to attack empty fields.
I've often thought he should have an arena that is basically like the PVE games like Destiny or Monster Hunter or Borderlands where it's two sided and you and your people fly around and take bases, with a token but constant defense. Have it made up of equivalent numbers of say, P51s, P38s, Spixteens, LA7s, and Brewsters upping into the vulch with low to medium level AIs to give the fighters something to shoot at. Have the AIs basically up and go straight toward town to defend from the troop carriers.
I think by the way a lot of people play, they would find that fun.
Wiley.
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I've often thought he should have an arena that is basically like the PVE games like Destiny or Monster Hunter or Borderlands where it's two sided and you and your people fly around and take bases, with a token but constant defense. Have it made up of equivalent numbers of say, P51s, P38s, Spixteens, LA7s, and Brewsters upping into the vulch with low to medium level AIs to give the fighters something to shoot at. Have the AIs basically up and go straight toward town to defend from the troop carriers.
I think by the way a lot of people play, they would find that fun.
Wiley.
If i hadn't seen squads built with that purpose first hand i would have thought you were joking. As a side it might have been useful for new people to get the gist of how the mechanic of the game work.
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I do have two thoughts, which I am sure has been discussed before.
1. Why do we still have three active countries when there are less than 100 people in the MA most of the day?
Numerous threads about this since I’ve been back...Hot Topic!
What’s the 2nd thought?
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... and to see the community is still going strong.
Damn, u have been away a long time
:rofl
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WB Strokes, nice fighting in the yakT the other night. <S>
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1 side would always have more players and the complaints would begin.
You cannot auto place players for balance because players would leave who can't fly with squad and friends.
The side who is about to win typically attracts more players, thus creating embalance.
"Spies" would be more prevalent as you'd only need to do it to one team.
Generally the lowest # team is not always getting gained or losing the war.
The lower #s team can gain the advantage by attacking the side who is busy attacking the other in a big furball.
3 sides means at some point the other 2 teams have to fight each other if they want the win. The lower #s side or side with least bases can use that opportunity to take bases back.
2 sides is not the issue.
Base distance, layout, and size of maps is. Maps like Bowl MA where players are scattered everywhere and there are 120 bases, and you cannot easily roll to fight both sides at the same time. maps that have 22+ miles in between bases. Maps where players can easily find the action and get into a fight.
There will always be side embalance, but it doesn't mean one side will be better than the others. The sides actually become pretty even in the afternoon.
When you are talking about low #s. Its really beneficial to have a smaller map with bases that have a good layout so all teams can fight each other and you can reach a fight where the other teams are fighting. That's what really makes the fights fun.
Thanks for the good post. I guess I am falling into the "grass is always greener" paradigm. You make the point that, with only two countries, there would tend to be a large imbalance between the two sides. I may be idealistic in thinking that people would generally leave side balance to themselves.
This is my second point which it looks like I forgot...
I want to preface this next bit. I don't have any experience developing games.
What I have come to understand is that there is some give and take between a game developer and their player base with regards to game balancing. Game developers can hard code things into their game to promote a more balanced gameplay experience for the player.
A good example of this in AH is ENY. ENY exists to balance an engagement by two countries and this is hard coded into the game. If one team has a significant amount more players, those players must use less effective aircraft to offset their numbers advantage. On the other side, the players also have the ability to influence mechanics that are hard coded into the game. In our example this means the player can swap sides, move to another area of the map ( was local ENY introduced?? I am not up to date), or deal with the ENY penalty.
Another example of this is the plane META that exists within the MA. META stands for most effective tactic available, and this META is affected by changes that both the developer and player make. HTC limits the META of what planes people fly with the mechanic of perk points and players are limited in what aircraft they fly, to an extent, by what opponent players are flying. If perk points did not exists most people would be flying around in a 262, and because I have seen mostly late war monster aircraft in the MA I am more inclined to fly a late war monster to keep up with the competition.
So, the META of the game as a whole (how bases are taken, plane choice, ACM, etc.) is a give and take between what tools or mechanics the developers give us and the choices we make as players. Going back to my original post, maybe this is not an issue for HiTech to solve. He has clearly given us the tools to solve it, but we as a player base still chose to play the META as it is now.
One thing I have noticed that has changed in the META is the head-on pass. In the limited time I have played recently I did notice that I still have yet to fall victim to a HO. This is certainly a situation where the META has been influenced by the player base.
A question for everyone:
Do you think that a large majority of what can be considered "problems" with the game are a symptom of players not driving a change in the META?
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dude, i don't even know how to use trim, now i have to learn meta, what's next forcing me to use rudders, little circle in front to aim?
semp
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dude, i don't even know how to use trim, now i have to learn meta, what's next forcing me to use rudders, little circle in front to aim?
semp
I just make sure the blender works and all is well.
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I think the best solution would be for maps with shortened transit times and more critical bases positioned well, less vital bases should be further away forcing one to do it the long way round.
Closer to town GV spawns. But I also had an idea about towable PAK guns with very limited fov and optics. To deploy from the ask would take time and you'd have to hide the half track otherwise 1k icon.