General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RotBaron on June 27, 2022, 05:03:52 AM
Title: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 27, 2022, 05:03:52 AM
Follow the science is what we’re told by all these federal and international agenciesabout climate change, covid, etc.
Except…well…, in this case:
Six weeks after conception, the unborn child’s heartbeat is detectable — but began beating before then. At week three, neural development begins. At week four, the eyes, ears, and respiratory systems begin to form. At week six, the mouth and lips are present. At week seven, the embryo looks like a baby.
There’s lots more of course however, they’d rather not have to think about that, just call it a fetus and anything goes.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on June 27, 2022, 06:36:10 AM
Which was another reason it had to be readdressed
The technology of the 70's was not what it is today
Anyone still arguing if it's alive when is just being ignorant
Not to mention contraceptive advances..
And the fact abortion is used as birth control over any other purpose was a reason to kill it
If its a right women can't live without -see crazy looking butch woman types protesting this on the tele - they will vote it into the states rights where it belongs not at the federal level
Eagler
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: DmonSlyr on June 27, 2022, 08:42:45 AM
"Science" only matters when it pushes their agenda and goals. If not they disregard it and pretend it doesn't exist.
What you really should research is the "science" they are using these aborted babies for. Making tons of money off selling parts. Anyone involved with this is demented and probably psychopathic. Just look at some of the whistle-blower testimonials from people who give abortions how disturbing it all really is.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 27, 2022, 12:29:09 PM
Follow the science is what we’re told by all these federal and international agenciesabout climate change, covid, etc.
Except…well…, in this case:
Six weeks after conception, the unborn child’s heartbeat is detectable — but began beating before then. At week three, neural development begins. At week four, the eyes, ears, and respiratory systems begin to form. At week six, the mouth and lips are present. At week seven, the embryo looks like a baby.
There’s lots more of course however, they’d rather not have to think about that, just call it a fetus and anything goes.
at six weeks there's no heart, no heart beat. what you have is cells that will eventually become the heart having electrical activity my own words not a doctor.
so follow the science is ambiguity.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: MiloMorai on June 27, 2022, 01:02:40 PM
The twelve week threshold in most European countries echoes the Judeo-Christian concept that the fetus receives the soul which turns it into a human being at a set time after conception. For example, the 1532 Constitutio Criminalis Carolina of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. distinguishes punishment for aborting the animated, i. e. at least three-month-old fruit of the womb (death) from that for the younger unanimated one (discretionary, but non-corporal).
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 01:26:28 PM
Milo brings up an excellent point (for once). The whole world is wagging its finger at the 10th century barbaric current US political climate to not want to allow a woman to kill her baby up to the very moment of birth... What do your non-American governments say about this subject?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: FLS on June 27, 2022, 01:32:24 PM
at six weeks there's no heart, no heart beat. what you have is cells that will eventually become the heart having electrical activity my own words not a doctor.
so follow the science is ambiguity.
semp
The bigger point is what it becomes if you don't kill it.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on June 27, 2022, 01:33:23 PM
Life begins at conception folks
How else do the cells divide and develop? Magic?
Life is sacred...losing that basic concept puts the rest of the circus in motion
The fact they are making this a larger issue than the coming depression is sick if not scary
Eagler
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: MiloMorai on June 27, 2022, 01:34:38 PM
at six weeks there's no heart, no heart beat. what you have is cells that will eventually become the heart having electrical activity my own words not a doctor.
so follow the science is ambiguity.
semp
If you found a single cell organism on mars, is that life?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 02:31:07 PM
No takers?
What's the EU say about abortion? Does the NHS Pay for abortions up to the point of birth? What about rape? What about incest?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: MiloMorai on June 27, 2022, 02:41:35 PM
We are a religious freedom country. That's a little different. We also have a constitutional separation of church and state.
Can you point out the specific part of the Constitution where it says the wall of separation between the church (which church?) and the state shall not be infringed? It shouldn't be too hard. In fact, something as important as that should be enumerated, right?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Arlo on June 27, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
Of course you wouldn't recognize a rhetorical question.. What are the abortion laws in Canaduh? That famous "free" health care pays for abortions right up to the point of birth, right?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Mano on June 27, 2022, 03:57:57 PM
Follow the Science
When you voice your opinion cite the source.
Peer Reviewed Science Journals show their sources. A hypothesis is stated followed by data and an analysis of that data. A theory is proposed. The experiment must be repeatable by the peers in the field of study when possible. All sources must be cited. All instruments used to collect data are listed.
Another important issue is whether a statement concerning conflict of interest is stated. Who paid for the research? Was the data cherry picked or was all data used because a sponsor might consider some data irrelevant when it is indeed relevant. Did the author own stock or have a financial interest in the collection of his data.
Science is constantly evolving and moving forward. A theory today might change in 4 years.
Peer Reviewed Science Journals are not perfect, but it is much better than reading something a journalist wrote that did not cite his source other than "from a reliable source'"
This is my two cents on Follow the Science.
:salute
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: MiloMorai on June 27, 2022, 04:01:00 PM
Of course you wouldn't recognize a rhetorical question.. What are the abortion laws in Canaduh? That famous "free" health care pays for abortions right up to the point of birth, right?
For Canadians. Any American coming to Canada for an abortion will have to pay.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 04:02:29 PM
Yes.. It all stems from an unofficial letter to a small church where the racist slave owning bigot Jefferson was trying to weasel out of getting involved in a local argument over whose gawd was better. This is all implied hyperbole and the current SC would agree with me.
It's funny.. Lefties like to argue what one explicitly enumerated amendment DOES say, while arguing what another explicitly enumerated amendment does NOT say.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 04:04:05 PM
Hard to answer when there is no abortion law in Canada, but its subdivisions and professional bodies have regulations restricting the procedure to various grounds or gestational limits There is also significant disparities between rural and urban access to abortion.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 04:26:03 PM
Obfuscation, thy name is Milo.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Arlo on June 27, 2022, 04:27:57 PM
ob·fus·ca·tion [ˌäbfəˈskāSH(ə)n] NOUN the action of making something obscure, unclear, or unintelligible:
Your question 'abortion law in Canada' was answered. Not my problem you can't understand what was said.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Busher on June 27, 2022, 04:45:00 PM
Roe addressed the issue based upon the privacy rights of a woman. Consider the impact Gents, should the SCOTUS start examining and changing the privacy rights of men.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 05:52:05 PM
The 10th nicely and handily covers everything not addressed. Stop parroting what you heard someone screech on msnbc.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 27, 2022, 06:17:25 PM
at six weeks there's no heart, no heart beat. what you have is cells that will eventually become the heart having electrical activity my own words not a doctor.
so follow the science is ambiguity.
semp
So you know more about cardiogenic development in utero than doctors and scientists? 🤦♂️
The human heart is the first functional organ to develop. It begins beating and pumping blood around day 21 or 22, a mere three weeks after fertilization. - Oregon State University
but the original question mentions heart beat. there's no heartbeat since there's no heart at 6 weeks. follow the science.
semp
When Does a Fetus Develop a Heartbeat? Through the use of ultrasounds, modern science can detect the waves of the baby’s heartbeat as early as three weeks after fertilization. Although the child’s organs have not yet fully formed, soon after this three-week mark the heart beats about 110 times per minute.
Can you point out the specific part of the Constitution where it says the wall of separation between the church (which church?) and the state shall not be infringed? It shouldn't be too hard. In fact, something as important as that should be enumerated, right?
That's cute. What do you believe the Establishment Clause does?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 27, 2022, 07:03:47 PM
So you know more about cardiogenic development in utero than doctors and scientists? 🤦♂️
The human heart is the first functional organ to develop. It begins beating and pumping blood around day 21 or 22, a mere three weeks after fertilization. - Oregon State University
if it's beating and fully formed, why cant doctor's detect a sound with a stethoscope like with you can me. in fact what you call heart beat is an ultrasound and the machine itself makes the sound. not the heart. since the heart is not fully formed yet. not until close to the 3rd trimester is the heart fully developed.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 27, 2022, 07:29:49 PM
if it's beating and fully formed, why cant doctor's detect a sound with a stethoscope like with you can me. in fact what you call heart beat is an ultrasound and the machine itself makes the sound. not the heart. since the heart is not fully formed yet. not until close to the 3rd trimester is the heart fully developed.
semp
Guess you didn’t read the links…
Who is your source and is it from a pro-abortion standpoint or abortion provider?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 27, 2022, 07:42:13 PM
Who is your source and is it from a pro-abortion standpoint or abortion provider?
I am pro life, but I dont make decisions for others.
please I would ask you to show me a picture of a fully developed heart beating at 6 weeks or before. pretty sure there's lots of ultrasounds that will show a fully formed heart at this stage. i"ll wait.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 27, 2022, 07:51:46 PM
just to give you a little history about me. I had a vasectomy at 32, because I couldnt afford to have another child. it cost me my marriage but i felt it was the right thing to do. my late wife had health problems so she didnt want children, so she got her tubes tied at age 34 and went on the pill just to make sure. both me and her went against our church. that was our choice.
I dont force my choice or hers on others. I am ready to answer to my higher power for my own choices just like my wife did.
but I will never force my choice on others.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 27, 2022, 09:43:22 PM
That's cute. What do you believe the Establishment Clause does?
The "establishment clause" is is an early attempt by slimy politicians to circumvent the obvious intentions of the framers. If the Founders had wanted a so-called "separation of church (which church?) and state" they would have put it in in no uncertain term (like "shall not be infringed"). But they didn't...
Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Pretty simple really... There will be no "official church of the US" and .gov shall not prevent anyone from exercising whatever flavor religion they desire (even silently saying a prayer after a football game). The intent, if you can read, is plain to see; ALL limitations in the constitution are on the .gov, not the people. The 1st Amendment keeps government out of religion, not religion out of government. That privileged, white, slave-owning racist bigot Jefferson is a hero of mine but he really screwed the pooch when he copped out and didn't just tell those goofy baptists that he didn't feel like getting involved in their silly local squabble, and instead claimed... golly gee, I'd really like to help but my hands are tied by this imaginary wall of separation.... What a puss.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: sparky127 on June 27, 2022, 10:00:40 PM
I am pro life, but I dont make decisions for others.
please I would ask you to show me a picture of a fully developed heart beating at 6 weeks or before. pretty sure there's lots of ultrasounds that will show a fully formed heart at this stage. i"ll wait.
semp
You're pro choice.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Shuffler on June 28, 2022, 05:04:48 AM
The "establishment clause" is is an early attempt by slimy politicians to circumvent the obvious intentions of the framers. If the Founders had wanted a so-called "separation of church (which church?) and state" they would have put it in in no uncertain term (like "shall not be infringed"). But they didn't...
Pretty simple really... There will be no "official church of the US" and .gov shall not prevent anyone from exercising whatever flavor religion they desire (even silently saying a prayer after a football game). The intent, if you can read, is plain to see; ALL limitations in the constitution are on the .gov, not the people. The 1st Amendment keeps government out of religion, not religion out of government. That privileged, white, slave-owning racist bigot Jefferson is a hero of mine but he really screwed the pooch when he copped out and didn't just tell those goofy baptists that he didn't feel like getting involved in their silly local squabble, and instead claimed... golly gee, I'd really like to help but my hands are tied by this imaginary wall of separation.... What a puss.
I believe Jefferson also wanted to address slavery. In order to get South Carolina and Georgia to sign on, he had to leave it out.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on June 28, 2022, 06:50:08 AM
The "establishment clause" is is an early attempt by slimy politicians to circumvent the obvious intentions of the framers. If the Founders had wanted a so-called "separation of church (which church?) and state" they would have put it in in no uncertain term (like "shall not be infringed"). But they didn't...
...
It's part of the first amendment. It was written by the framers.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 28, 2022, 03:38:51 PM
thought the topic was a beating fully formed heart at 6 weeks.
semp
Nope, was never stated, this however was:
Six weeks after conception, the unborn child’s heartbeat is detectable — but began beating before then. At week three, neural development begins. At week four, the eyes, ears, and respiratory systems begin to form. At week six, the mouth and lips are present. At week seven, the embryo looks like a baby.
READING COMPREHENSION in NOT your strong suit. Read again, it’s the first post.
Furthermore, are you disputing the Integrative Biology Department and their Anatomy & Physiology textbook at Oregon State University?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 28, 2022, 06:45:38 PM
Six weeks after conception, the unborn child’s heartbeat is detectable — but began beating before then. At week three, neural development begins. At week four, the eyes, ears, and respiratory systems begin to form. At week six, the mouth and lips are present. At week seven, the embryo looks like a baby.
READING COMPREHENSION in NOT your strong suit. Read again, it’s the first post.
Furthermore, are you disputing the Integrative Biology Department and their Anatomy & Physiology textbook at Oregon State University?
sorry I misunderstood that the cells that will become the heart starting to develop at 6 weeks. as for a heartbeat there isn't one, since the heart is not fully developed, it doesn't make a noise until later.
but keep your heart beating on this.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 28, 2022, 07:11:14 PM
sorry I misunderstood that the cells that will become the heart starting to develop at 6 weeks. as for a heartbeat there isn't one, since the heart is not fully developed, it doesn't make a noise until later.
but keep your heart beating on this.
semp
Sorry that this is so difficult for you. I understand your reading comprehension level is 5th grade, maybe your daughters can help you read the OSU link.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 28, 2022, 07:19:09 PM
Sorry that this is so difficult for you. I understand your reading comprehension level is 5th grade, maybe your daughters can help you read the OSU link.
perhaps since my intellect is so low, maybe a picture of a beating heart at 6 weeks will help me understand.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Firetech on June 28, 2022, 08:49:27 PM
Peer Reviewed Science Journals show their sources. A hypothesis is stated followed by data and an analysis of that data. A theory is proposed. The experiment must be repeatable by the peers in the field of study when possible. All sources must be cited. All instruments used to collect data are listed.
Another important issue is whether a statement concerning conflict of interest is stated. Who paid for the research? Was the data cherry picked or was all data used because a sponsor might consider some data irrelevant when it is indeed relevant. Did the author own stock or have a financial interest in the collection of his data.
Science is constantly evolving and moving forward. A theory today might change in 4 years.
Peer Reviewed Science Journals are not perfect, but it is much better than reading something a journalist wrote that did not cite his source other than "from a reliable source'"
This is my two cents on Follow the Science.
:salute
I wonder what violated feels about this with his “research” that he talks about in every single thread.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 03:15:18 AM
perhaps since my intellect is so low, maybe a picture of a beating heart at 6 weeks will help me understand.
semp
At this period, the developing circulatory system allows maternal- embryonic nutritive and gaseous changes at the chorionic villi. It is well documented in the literature that, in healthy fetuses, the heart rate (HR) increases from 110 bpm at the 5th week of gestation to 170 bpm at the 9th week of gestation. From then on, there is a gradual reduction in the HR that reaches a mean value of 150 bpm at the 13th week of gestation. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3279166/
The heart of an embryo starts to beat from around 5–6 weeks of pregnancy. Also, it may be possible to see the first visible sign of the embryo, known as the fetal pole, at this stage. The heart of a fetus is fully developed by the 10th week. 5th week: The developing heart is made up of two tubes that have fused in the middle, creating a trunk with four tubes branching off. The heart begins to beat, and it may be possible to detect it using vaginal ultrasound. - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat.
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment. An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. Abdominal ultrasound will usually see the heartbeat by the 7th-8th week of pregnancy. - https://oacapps.med.jhmi.edu/OBGYN-101/Text/Pregnancy/fetal_heart_beat.htm
Fetal heart beat can be detected as early as 34 days (just under 6 weeks) gestation on good quality, high frequency transvaginal ultrasound, as a crown rump length (CRL) of as little as 1-2 mm.
If a fetal heartbeat cannot be identified with a CRL ≥7 mm using transvaginal scanning, then embryonal demise can be diagnosed 3,4. Demise can be confirmed with repeated scanning and serial quantitative beta-HCG. - https://radiopaedia.org/articles/fetal-heart-beat?lang=us
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 03:15:55 AM
at six weeks there's no heart, no heart beat. what you have is cells that will eventually become the heart having electrical activity my own words not a doctor.
so follow the science is ambiguity.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 03:16:27 AM
if it's beating and fully formed, why cant doctor's detect a sound with a stethoscope like with you can me. in fact what you call heart beat is an ultrasound and the machine itself makes the sound. not the heart. since the heart is not fully formed yet. not until close to the 3rd trimester is the heart fully developed.
semp
Your evolving narrative, yet mine has stayed the same…
Every comment/post of yours is addressed and answered in the links I provided which there are 100’s more if those aren’t enough. The one from Johns Hopkins would be enough for most, but I suspect nothing will suffice with you (from me).
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 04:17:49 AM
if it's beating and fully formed, why cant doctor's detect a sound with a stethoscope like with you can me. in fact what you call heart beat is an ultrasound and the machine itself makes the sound. not the heart. since the heart is not fully formed yet. not until close to the 3rd trimester is the heart fully developed.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 04:19:19 AM
sorry I misunderstood that the cells that will become the heart starting to develop at 6 weeks. as for a heartbeat there isn't one, since the heart is not fully developed, it doesn't make a noise until later.
but keep your heart beating on this.
semp
Sorry, I missed a couple.
All covered in the links I provided should you choose to read them.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 29, 2022, 04:59:02 AM
5th week: The developing heart is made up of two tubes that have fused in the middle, creating a trunk with four tubes branching off.
that's from your post. does that read like a heart? or the beginning of developing of a heart. which is formed by end of 1st trimester. even you said that.
at six weeks there's no heartbeat, it's just cells that eventually will become the heart, having the ability to send electrical impulses. but no heartbeat, no heart pictures. ultrasound all it does is detect these impulses.
the weird thing I found is that at 6 weeks it's called an embryo not a fetus.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on June 29, 2022, 05:52:59 AM
Polling results are science to some
Having worked marketing research - polls can be easily manipulated for desired outcome and usually are
Eagler
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: LCADolby on June 29, 2022, 05:55:23 AM
At this period, the developing circulatory system allows maternal- embryonic nutritive and gaseous changes at the chorionic villi. It is well documented in the literature that, in healthy fetuses, the heart rate (HR) increases from 110 bpm at the 5th week of gestation to 170 bpm at the 9th week of gestation. From then on, there is a gradual reduction in the HR that reaches a mean value of 150 bpm at the 13th week of gestation. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3279166/
The heart of an embryo starts to beat from around 5–6 weeks of pregnancy. Also, it may be possible to see the first visible sign of the embryo, known as the fetal pole, at this stage. The heart of a fetus is fully developed by the 10th week. 5th week: The developing heart is made up of two tubes that have fused in the middle, creating a trunk with four tubes branching off. The heart begins to beat, and it may be possible to detect it using vaginal ultrasound. - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat.
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment. An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. Abdominal ultrasound will usually see the heartbeat by the 7th-8th week of pregnancy. - https://oacapps.med.jhmi.edu/OBGYN-101/Text/Pregnancy/fetal_heart_beat.htm
Fetal heart beat can be detected as early as 34 days (just under 6 weeks) gestation on good quality, high frequency transvaginal ultrasound, as a crown rump length (CRL) of as little as 1-2 mm.
If a fetal heartbeat cannot be identified with a CRL ≥7 mm using transvaginal scanning, then embryonal demise can be diagnosed 3,4. Demise can be confirmed with repeated scanning and serial quantitative beta-HCG. - https://radiopaedia.org/articles/fetal-heart-beat?lang=us
Your brain is damaged.
Period. Full stop.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: DmonSlyr on June 29, 2022, 07:59:30 AM
and you say follow the science. no fully formed heart at 6 weeks, no heartbeat. just electrical impulses. once the heat develops and pushes blood, you have a heartbeat. that's your own links.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: knorB on June 29, 2022, 12:44:06 PM
and you say follow the science. no fully formed heart at 6 weeks, no heartbeat. just electrical impulses. once the heat develops and pushes blood, you have a heartbeat. that's your own links.
semp
If you find a single cell organism on mars is it life?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on June 29, 2022, 12:48:25 PM
If you find a single cell organism on mars is it life?
Pardon me for addressing your genius point here but is it in a womb? How would you abort it? Even if it was a single cell organism on Earth (which exists, as well).
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Arlo on June 29, 2022, 12:50:35 PM
Pardon me for addressing your genius point here but is it in a womb? How would you abort it? Even if it was a single cell organism on Earth (which exists, as well).
no heartbeat
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: knorB on June 29, 2022, 12:57:06 PM
That's your 'point?' Really? I will definitely join you cause to protect Martian single cell organisms that don't get pregnant and give birth from abortions. Where do I sign up?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Arlo on June 29, 2022, 01:01:06 PM
Just to be even clearer ... not everyone has an abortion because they really wanted one.
The majority destroy the unborn because they cannot keep their legs closed.
Always others to blame.
No responsibility for anything
Drug addicts Crimminals Welfare scroungers The list is endless
Always someone else to blame
China will outlast the US…fact
You lot mobilised for the Ukraine yet?
Thought not
What next month ?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 07:42:48 PM
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment. An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. Abdominal ultrasound will usually see the heartbeat by the 7th-8th week of pregnancy. - https://oacapps.med.jhmi.edu/OBGYN-101/Text/Pregnancy/fetal_heart_beat.htm
Go set them straight at Johns Hopkins semp, they don’t know what they’re talking, but you do :old:
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 29, 2022, 08:38:34 PM
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment. An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. Abdominal ultrasound will usually see the heartbeat by the 7th-8th week of pregnancy. - https://oacapps.med.jhmi.edu/OBGYN-101/Text/Pregnancy/fetal_heart_beat.htm
Go set them straight at Johns Hopkins semp, they don’t know what they’re talking, but you do :old:
from your link.
If you use a Doppler ultrasound fetal heartbeat detector, you can, with effort, usually hear the heartbeat by 12-14 weeks gestation and routinely after that.
You aren't really hearing the heartbeat. You are hearing the amplified "beat frequency" generated by the interaction between the outgoing ultrasound signal, and the returning ultrasound signal. When the outgoing signal is reflected back by a moving object (fetal heart), then the returning signal has a slightly higher frequency (if the object is moving toward the transducer), or slightly lower frequency (if the object is moving away). This is called the Doppler shift. Every so often, the peaks and valleys of these slightly different frequencies are superimposed on each other, creating a much louder sound, that happens to be in the audible range. It is this sound that you are hearing.
more on this again from your own link
Using a DeLee stethoscope (equipped with a head-mount), you can sometimes hear the heartbeat by 16 weeks but unless you are practiced with it, you won't hear it until 20 weeks, at which time the mother can usually tell you that she feels the baby moving.
Using a conventional stethoscope, you may never hear the fetal heartbeat.
at 6 weeks what is detected is electric activity on cells that will eventually become the heart. again that's from your own links. you even posted that it's just 2 tubes with 4 tubes coming out of them, but no heart. no heart, no heartbeat.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: FLS on June 29, 2022, 08:54:55 PM
What's the point? A noticeable heartbeat is one of many developments incidental to growing a baby. It's an arbitrary legal standard in some states. It's not a significant difference. We all start out as just a bunch of cells, a skin tag is also a bunch of cells, it doesn't grow into a person, there is a critical difference. Abortion at any stage is a person that won't be born. You may be pro-abortion but don't kid yourself it's just a clump of cells. You're still a clump of cells, just bigger.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: MiloMorai on June 29, 2022, 09:05:03 PM
All males should be "fixed" except for superior males, like myself, to be used for breeding. :lol
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 29, 2022, 09:19:25 PM
Although the fetal heart begins beating as early as the 5th week after the LMP, your ability to detect it will be limited by your equipment. An ultrasound machine usually will enable you to see a heartbeat by 5 to 6 weeks gestation if equipped with a vaginal probe. Abdominal ultrasound will usually see the heartbeat by the 7th-8th week of pregnancy. - https://oacapps.med.jhmi.edu/OBGYN-101/Text/Pregnancy/fetal_heart_beat.htm
Go set them straight at Johns Hopkins semp, they don’t know what they’re talking, but you do :old:
I never said one thing about “hearing” it, YOU did.
Why is Johns Hopkins and all the other links calling it a heartbeat if as you say there isn’t one :headscratch:
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: guncrasher on June 29, 2022, 09:52:17 PM
Follow the science is what we’re told by all these federal and international agenciesabout climate change, covid, etc.
Except…well…, in this case:
Six weeks after conception, the unborn child’s heartbeat is detectable — but began beating before then. At week three, neural development begins. At week four, the eyes, ears, and respiratory systems begin to form. At week six, the mouth and lips are present. At week seven, the embryo looks like a baby.
There’s lots more of course however, they’d rather not have to think about that, just call it a fetus and anything goes.
since at 6 weeks there's no heart, how can it detect a heartbeat? your own links.
semp
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: RotBaron on June 30, 2022, 03:56:16 AM
Snopes is biased, very left leaning bias. However, I’m sure that matters none to you.
Second, but much more important, what are you trying to dispute? Do you disagree that aborted children would appear that way? Are you disputing those are aborted children?
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Shuffler on July 06, 2022, 09:41:33 AM
Some folks are ok killing children and some are not.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Tig on July 06, 2022, 10:13:43 AM
Simple fact is that kids need families and families need kids. Anyone who says otherwise isn't okay in the head.
Title: Re: Follow the science
Post by: Eagler on July 06, 2022, 10:43:48 AM