General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 03:04:50 PM
Title: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 03:04:50 PM
I'm not asking if you think a wall is effective or not. I'm not asking if you think the border can be secured. I am asking if you WANT the border secured.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Tig on July 09, 2022, 03:38:51 PM
I sure as hell want it secured. I don't want to compete for jobs with people who never did the proper paperwork to be here. My Vietnamese family (my mom and her parents) had to fight pirates, and was nearly convicted by the Thai government before they made it to the US. And you know what? After going through hell and back, they still did it legally. No one can tell me that it's fair that my family went through that and I still need to pay taxes to support welfare for illegal immigrants. It's not fair. Literally.
So yes, I very much want the border secured, and I want everyone without the proper documents deported back to where they came from. They are more than welcome to come back as long as they follow the proper legal system.
P.S - Have y'all noticed how the media no longer calls them "illegal immigrants"? They're simply referred to as "migrants" as if they were legal. They can literally cross the border and get support from the government. That's jacked up.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 03:40:36 PM
I'm not asking if you think a wall is effective or not. I'm not asking if you think the border can be secured. I am asking if you WANT the border secured.
I also want to ask, who likes Mom and apple pie?
Also, who likes peace on Earth and good will towards men?
The question isn't do we want secure borders. The question is how to accomplish it in the most rational and effective, and fiscally responsible manner.
How about, who wants to waste hundreds of billions on ineffective, unneeded government construction projects that won't do what they claim and cost 10x what they were estimated?
Raise you hands...
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 04:00:09 PM
Thanks for answering.
So you want a secure border and elected Biden, who is allowing people to flood in because of his policies. You say you want the border secured but lot of people do not want it. They want open borders and they want catch and release, ala Biden.
The federal government sued Arizona when Arizona passes strict laws against illegals. They will do the same with Texas after your governor directed state police to no longer turn illegals over to the feds.
Lots of people do not want to secure the border. They bus illegals all over the United States and drop them off. They attack people and states that want secure borders and call them racists. You vote for those people.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
So you're admitting you want to waste hundreds of billions on ineffective, unneeded government construction projects that won't do what they claim and cost 10x what they were estimated?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Meatwad on July 09, 2022, 04:07:41 PM
I sure as hell want it secured. I don't want to compete for jobs with people who never did the proper paperwork to be here. My Vietnamese family (my mom and her parents) had to fight pirates, and was nearly convicted by the Thai government before they made it to the US. And you know what? After going through hell and back, they still did it legally. No one can tell me that it's fair that my family went through that and I still need to pay taxes to support welfare for illegal immigrants. It's not fair. Literally.
So yes, I very much want the border secured, and I want everyone without the proper documents deported back to where they came from. They are more than welcome to come back as long as they follow the proper legal system.
P.S - Have y'all noticed how the media no longer calls them "illegal immigrants"? They're simply referred to as "migrants" as if they were legal. They can literally cross the border and get support from the government. That's jacked up.
Some of them are calling the illegals "dreamers" now because of some PC sissy stupidity. To me they are all illegal mexicans
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 04:09:28 PM
So you're admitting you want to waste hundreds of billions on ineffective, unneeded government construction projects that won't do what they claim and cost 10x what they were estimated?
When did I mention any such thing?
Do you know what a strawman argument is? There is no way to have a dialog with someone like you.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 04:13:54 PM
So you're admitting you want to waste hundreds of billions on ineffective, unneeded government construction projects that won't do what they claim and cost 10x what they were estimated?
What does that have to do with enforcing current laws and allowing border control to do their jobs? Stop with the deflecting, man up and admit you want open borders.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2022, 04:20:00 PM
The OP stated walls were not the argument from the start of this thread. Yet, you went there. Now you're trying to muddy the waters even more by mentioning the employers of illegals. Fair points in a different discussion. It was really a simple question. Are you for secure borders?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
We don't need a wall overall train but we do need a wall. Listen to what the border patrol has said in the past. They even built their own walls out of surplus military scrap from the Vietnam era to delineate the border. They desperately wanted some sort of a wall because that is a big help.
What I want is a physical barrier where needed, along with all the technology and manpower needed. I don't think any of that is a waste of money. I think it's a national security issue and we spend all kinds of money on roadkill. This is a real issue that we need to address. Every American should be behind securing the border.
And this is roadkill having illegals come here and be untouchable.
Say you want to arrest employers? There's another side of that. Employers are victims just like we are. The federal government enables illegals to live here. They allow their kids to go to school and they allow them to live here without being harassed. They flood the labor market so what are businesses supposed to do?
Illegals even open their own businesses.
We need to prosecute illegals themselves as well. Like Arizona tried to do. Arizona made it illegal for them to go to school or ride on public transportation or even for anybody to knowingly transport any illegal. The federal government shot all that down.
There are so many things that we could do right now. The fact of the matter is that most Democratic politicians do not want to do anything to secure the border.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 04:40:14 PM
The OP stated walls were not the argument from the start of this thread. Yet, you went there. Now you're trying to muddy the waters even more by mentioning the employers of illegals. Fair points in a different discussion. It was really a simple question. Are you for secure borders?
the question was just so Gina could say, then you should have voted for trump
I mean who doesn't want a secured border? but wanting and having are 2 different things.
I mean trump also promised mexico was gonna pay for it.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 04:45:21 PM
I will amend what I said about Democrats. Both Democrats and Republicans. They do not want the border sealed.
There are various reasons I think. I think that they like the cheap labor and I think that Democrats like the voters. Illegals do contribute to the economy. It would be a different economy if they were not here with their cheap labor.
But I don't want any of that. Trump was right when he said that if you don't secure your borders you don't have a country. There are so many things that Trump wanted to do that I agreed with. He was a true outsider that got screwed over by both sides.
People that hate Trump usually can't cite anything other than personality. What he was actually doing was very good for the country in a lot of cases.
But some people have a cut off their nose to spite their face attitude. Makes no sense to me. It's true derangement.
Trump was the only outsider that got in and he was shaking up both sides of the aisle.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 09, 2022, 04:47:28 PM
I sure as hell want it secured. I don't want to compete for jobs with people who never did the proper paperwork to be here. My Vietnamese family (my mom and her parents) had to fight pirates, and was nearly convicted by the Thai government before they made it to the US. And you know what? After going through hell and back, they still did it legally. No one can tell me that it's fair that my family went through that and I still need to pay taxes to support welfare for illegal immigrants. It's not fair. Literally.
So yes, I very much want the border secured, and I want everyone without the proper documents deported back to where they came from. They are more than welcome to come back as long as they follow the proper legal system.
P.S - Have y'all noticed how the media no longer calls them "illegal immigrants"? They're simply referred to as "migrants" as if they were legal. They can literally cross the border and get support from the government. That's jacked up.
You are so correct on all the points that you made.
And it does disgusts me that everybody calls them migrants when they're illegal invaders. They come here at will and stay here at will and nobody does anything about it. They even commit crimes and are let loose again to commit more crimes.
What kind of a messed up country would allow this?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
You are so correct on all the points that you made.
And it does disgusts me that everybody calls them migrants when they're illegal invaders. They come here at will and stay here at will and nobody does anything about it. They even commit crimes and are let loose again to commit more crimes.
What kind of a messed up country would allow this?
that would be some nice story to hear all the details. in high-school I had friends from Cambodia and Vietnam, heard some stories about waiting in refugee camps till allowed to come here. lots of people they knew never made it out of the country.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 06:59:10 PM
this statement reminds me of the anchor child theory back in the 80s.
what makes you think if by a miracle they become citizens that they would vote Democrat?
semp
I'm not even going address this naivety. If you want to believe that the dems are ignoring state and federal law at the expense of American citizens, in the name of "compassion", that's all you.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2022, 08:05:00 PM
I'm not even going address this naivety. If you want to believe that the dems are ignoring state and federal law at the expense of American citizens, in the name of "compassion", that's all you.
no that's not what I said. please do explain how democrats ignore laws, do they control border patrol, do they help illegal aliens file for citizenship which they do not qualify in order to get more votes? do tell.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 08:22:40 PM
this statement reminds me of the anchor child theory back in the 80s.
what makes you think if by a miracle they become citizens that they would vote Democrat?
semp
Um. Anchor babies are not a theory they are fact. If a mother sneaks across the border and has her baby here that child is a US citizen. That's called an anchor baby.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2022, 08:30:52 PM
Voter suppression has existed since the reconstruction era (and before, actually). Must have been saving us from an influx of illegal alien slaves that were brought here against their will. Or maybe against illegal alien non-property owning fellas. Or illegal alien women. Tucker's late to the party being scared that undocumented aliens might disenfranchise male WASPs.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 08:31:26 PM
Um. Anchor babies are not a theory they are fact. If a mother sneaks across the border and has her baby here that child is a US citizen. That's called an anchor baby.
when does the mother get citizenship? if she gets it at all.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 08:33:33 PM
no that's not what I said. please do explain how democrats ignore laws, do they control border patrol, do they help illegal aliens file for citizenship which they do not qualify in order to get more votes? do tell.
semp
I'll be back for this one, hopefully tomorrow. Too many goodies in this post for me to feast on at the moment.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 08:35:59 PM
Voter suppression has existed since the reconstruction era (and before, actually). Must have been saving us from an influx of illegal alien slaves that were brought here against their will. Or maybe against illegal alien non-property owning fellas. Or illegal alien women. Tucker's late to the party being scared that undocumented aliens might disenfranchise male WASPs.
So how do our current immigration policies compare to the non-racist countries around the world?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2022, 08:43:03 PM
So how do our current immigration policies compare to the non-racist countries around the world?
Varies. Unless, of course, you think every nation on Earth is isolationist except the U.S. and you wish this nation would just be more like North Korea.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 08:47:40 PM
Varies. Unless, of course, you think every nation on Earth is isolationist except the U.S. and you wish this nation would just be more like North Korea.
Just give me an example of a country that deliberately allows millions of people to illegally cross over it's border.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 09, 2022, 08:48:39 PM
Walls work! Especially when they are implemented by a president who understands how construction works. You know how I know walls work? The great wall of China. China ended up taking the land on the other side too. We can make it a smart wall. We can have sensors under the ground to monitor for tunnels. We wouldn't need as much troops on the ground risking their lives. The only people who don't want a wall in Government are being paid off or threatened by the Cartles. The cartel is nasty and we don't need that in America. It's too much of a risk. I could only imagine what some of those troopers have seen.
I sure as hell want it secured. I don't want to compete for jobs with people who never did the proper paperwork to be here. My Vietnamese family (my mom and her parents) had to fight pirates, and was nearly convicted by the Thai government before they made it to the US. And you know what? After going through hell and back, they still did it legally. No one can tell me that it's fair that my family went through that and I still need to pay taxes to support welfare for illegal immigrants. It's not fair. Literally.
So yes, I very much want the border secured, and I want everyone without the proper documents deported back to where they came from. They are more than welcome to come back as long as they follow the proper legal system.
P.S - Have y'all noticed how the media no longer calls them "illegal immigrants"? They're simply referred to as "migrants" as if they were legal. They can literally cross the border and get support from the government. That's jacked up.
That's basically a lot how I feel as well. Just because they border us, doesn't mean they should be allowed to come over and take advantage of us. We have no clue who these people are. We don't have the funds to take care them. They are Mexicos problem, not ours. I dated a Columbian girl whose mother was working toward citizenship. Its such a long arduous process. I totally agree with you that it's not fair for these people to roam the streets working under the table undercutting us all and creating liability all over the place.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2022, 08:50:38 PM
no that's not what I said. please do explain how democrats ignore laws, do they control border patrol, do they help illegal aliens file for citizenship which they do not qualify in order to get more votes? do tell.
semp
You really do not question your own political side, only Republicans and/or conservatives obviously.
Sanctuary city? Please define.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 09:29:11 PM
not that I don't question my own side, but your I question your own bs. most of my friends are Republicans and they also question a lot of bs and misrepresentations of their own side.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RotBaron on July 09, 2022, 10:18:42 PM
A self-declared sanctuary city is bs?
Here to help you out: https://cis.org/Map-Sanctuary-Cities-Counties-and-States
CA sanctuary city/county:
Alameda County Berkley Contra Costa County Fremont, CA Los Angeles County Los Angeles Monterey County Napa County Oakland Riverside County Sacramento County San Bernardino County San Diego County San Francisco County/City San Mateo County Santa Ana Santa Clara County Santa Cruz County Sonoma County Watsonville
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 10:31:17 PM
What I don't get is how people who call themselves patriots can vote for the insane liberalism that they continue to vote for. It's liberal/progressive democrats who are ALWAYS the ones: declaring sanctuary cities, supporting BLM, wanting to ban guns and ammo, allowing illegals to flood into this country, pushing freakish agendas like drag queen story hour in schools. I mean, I could go on forever.
They support lazy-ass bums too. They let criminals out of jail, they are the ones who made shoplifting basically not a crime. Always, always the dems.
And people vote for them. It's unreal
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 10:31:48 PM
What I don't get is how people who call themselves patriots can vote for the insane liberalism that they continue to vote for. It's liberal/progressive democrats who are ALWAYS the ones: declaring sanctuary cities, supporting BLM, wanting to ban guns and ammo, allowing illegals to flood into this country, pushing freakish agendas like drag queen story hour in schools. I mean, I could go on forever.
They support lazy-ass bums too. They let criminals out of jail, they are the ones who made shoplifting basically not a crime. Always, always the dems.
And people vote for them. It's unreal
When you don't like America, it's Founders, the Constitution etc., you only have one choice - burn the whole thing to the ground.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 10:45:00 PM
What I don't get is how people who call themselves patriots can vote for the insane liberalism that they continue to vote for. It's liberal/progressive democrats who are ALWAYS the ones: declaring sanctuary cities, supporting BLM, wanting to ban guns and ammo, allowing illegals to flood into this country, pushing freakish agendas like drag queen story hour in schools. I mean, I could go on forever.
They support lazy-ass bums too. They let criminals out of jail, they are the ones who made shoplifting basically not a crime. Always, always the dems.
And people vote for them. It's unreal
some people on the right might say you are a perfect example of a drag queen. and you should be committed as you have a mental illness.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 10:57:14 PM
some people on the right might say you are a perfect example of a drag queen. and you should be committed as you have a mental illness.
semp
haha!
I doubt it. No one but the people I have told ever know that I'm not a woman, but I really do not care what people think about it. People like me wherever I go and meet people. They have no idea that I am not a woman. I am intelligent and fun. People like me and I like people.
I'm happy and well grounded. I'm a normal person and not some freak like the half naked drag queens you guys let into schools.
I don't want to expose little kids to any kind of sexuality and especially god-damned freaks.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 11:01:39 PM
some people on the right might say you are a perfect example of a drag queen. and you should be committed as you have a mental illness.
semp
Like others who have spoken out on the issue, gg must take sides, no matter personal feelings or beliefs? Sounds too much like a certain democrat voting block where individuals who "crossover" are ridiculed or canceled for stepping outside the line. Unreal.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 11:03:35 PM
I doubt it. No one but the people I have told ever know that I'm not a woman, but I really do not care what people think about it. People like me wherever I go and meet people. They have no idea that I am not a woman. I am intelligent and fun. People like me and I like people.
I'm happy and well grounded. I'm a normal person and not some freak like the half naked drag queens you guys let into schools.
I don't want to expose little kids to any kind of sexuality and especially god-damned freaks.
But gg, you're not following their rules. After all, they do know what is best for you ...
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 09, 2022, 11:11:19 PM
But gg, you're not following their rules. After all, they do know what is best for you ...
I guess I'm a disappointment for some.
Another thing about me is that I do not want extra rights, I do not feel oppressed and I don't want to hang out in groups of gay or transgendered people just for the sake of being part of some stupid group. No gay pride parades or freak-shows for me.
I'm a normal person and I don't want to be in anyone's face about my personal business.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Nefarious on July 09, 2022, 11:26:48 PM
I want private borders.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 11:29:53 PM
When you don't like America, it's Founders, the Constitution etc., you only have one choice - burn the whole thing to the ground.
or you can attack the capitol, use American flags to hurt hundreds of police officers. disrupt congress, try to hang members of congress, break windows, cause damages.
all while calling yourself a patriot. or you can go chanting on the streets "the jews will not replace us" , wear nazi and pro white supremacy gear. all while pointing to the other side, you are against America.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 09, 2022, 11:44:45 PM
or you can attack the capitol, use American flags to hurt hundreds of police officers. disrupt congress, try to hang members of congress, break windows, cause damages.
all while calling yourself a patriot. or you can go chanting on the streets "the jews will not replace us" , wear nazi and pro white supremacy gear. all while pointing to the other side, you are against America.
semp
You say all of this while ignoring months of burning, looting, assaulting and even murder which took place right in your backyard. Most never even charged for their crimes. And 100 people, some not even conservative, rioting for 1 hr gives you the right to look stupid?
And do you really want to compare antisemitism? I hope so.
Keep the Leftist talking points coming semp.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 09, 2022, 11:54:14 PM
You say all of this while ignoring months of burning, looting, assaulting and even murder which took place right in your backyard. Most never even charged for their crimes. And 100 people, some not even conservative, rioting for 1 hr gives you the right to look stupid?
And do you really want to compare antisemitism? I hope so.
Keep the Leftist talking points coming semp.
no it's the irony of you guys. not Republicans bad, Republicans good.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: TyFoo on July 10, 2022, 01:33:56 AM
I want to read more history on the effectiveness of the Great Wall of China against illegal immigration ….
That’s classic……lol
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 10, 2022, 01:50:38 AM
or you can attack the capitol, use American flags to hurt hundreds of police officers. disrupt congress, try to hang members of congress, break windows, cause damages.
all while calling yourself a patriot. or you can go chanting on the streets "the jews will not replace us" , wear nazi and pro white supremacy gear. all while pointing to the other side, you are against America.
semp
Sounds like the average day for BLM and Antifa after George Floyd in hundreds of cities across the US for MONTHS on end. I’m sure you were terribly outraged to watch all the hurt “hundreds of police officers” then, right?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 10, 2022, 04:40:51 AM
Sounds like the average day for BLM and Antifa after George Floyd in hundreds of cities across the US for MONTHS on end. I’m sure you were terribly outraged to watch all the hurt “hundreds of police officers” then, right?
yes I was, actually. just as I was when the white supremacist guy broke the window that others took advantage of.
you steal you deserve to go to jail.
but you still trying to defend the tour group at the capitol.
but go ahead stand back, stand by.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Eagler on July 10, 2022, 06:19:43 AM
To the original OP..
Who DOES NOT want a secure border?
This administration obviously...until it initiates a good ole terrorist attack I guess they are just going to let them stream on in...
Maybe that is the goal as I can't see any reasonable thought potato head would have in his dementia mind to allow what is happening..
The United States is on the fast track to become Venezuela north for numerous reasons
Eagler
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Dichotomy on July 10, 2022, 07:14:29 AM
You mean the ones that the cartels will just tunnel under anyway?
A. Tunnels are much harder to build than you realize. B. A wall would stop 100k people a year from even attempting to make the trip. As they know they couldn't easily walk across. C. We have sensors and satellites and other methods to determine where tunnels are.
It's pointless to have so many people risk their lives at the border patrol when a wall would do so much. Even the border patrol think its a good idea. Why aren't we listening to them? It's a travesty what the dems are allowing into this country. A total disgrace to hard working American citizens.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: spudman on July 10, 2022, 09:56:44 AM
Everyone knows that borders are racist! The Ministry of Truth has told us so.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 10:38:00 AM
It's just like a wall around the gated community. Anybody can get a ladder and get over any wall, but most people will not.
The border wall is very effective. Ask the border patrol agents that work the border.
And of course why wouldn't it be? Most of the people that come across are just ordinary people and families. Do you think ordinary people women and children are going to scale a wall or break through it? Part of the whole thing is a deterrent. It's a barrier that is not insignificant.
Of course people cut through it and break it or maybe even tunnel under it. But that's better than not having a wall at all. That secures huge areas of border. Also the wall was meant to have sensors in it so that people could be alerted to people climbing on it or cutting it. It was just all never finished because of Biden.
We need a wall in the areas where it's practical along with the technology and the manpower and the will to actually stop people from coming over.
It's both parties really. This has been an ongoing issue forever and nobody is done anything about it. Nobody even wanted to do anything about it because they thought it was too politically incorrect, or maybe they just like having the cheap labor in the influx of people.
Like it or not, a country cannot grow unless the population is growing. That's what a lot of older countries are having a problem with. Population growth being almost zero. Places like Japan. A lot of places in Europe. Their populations get older and older and Are retiring and not working in her creating more of a burden on the workforce.
So there is something to be said for the illegal immigrants that do come here. I'm not actually against those people because I like them a lot and most of them I've ever met have always been really great people and hard workers. The ones that I personally know I would never want to kick out of the country.
But we have to have a system in a rule of law that everybody abides by. We have to secure the border. We can do it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:07:52 AM
We need a wall in the areas where it's practical along with the technology and the manpower and the will to actually stop people from coming over.
Which is what I said like 5 topics ago.
In some urban border areas a solid wall is practical. Other areas just simple fencing is most feasible. The VAST majority of the border is better controlled with remote sensors and drone surveillance.
No need to waster hundreds of billions on an unneeded, ineffective Trump vanity wall stretching 2000 miles that can be defeated with $5 ladders.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 11:34:38 AM
In some urban border areas a solid wall is practical. Other areas just simple fencing is most feasible. The VAST majority of the border is better controlled with remote sensors and drone surveillance.
No need to waster hundreds of billions on an unneeded, ineffective Trump vanity wall stretching 2000 miles that can be defeated with $5 ladders.
even though I saw that you said that, you still go back to sayin that it's a 2000 mile "vanity" wall and that's not what anyone was ever saying.
A wall plus the technology was what it was always supposed to be.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:35:50 AM
A wall plus the technology was what it was always supposed to be.
And Mexico was supposed to pay for it. LoL
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 11:41:52 AM
So what? You agree we can do it with a wall and technology, right? Trump tried to do that and you mock it. Why is that? Just because it was Trump and you hate Trump?
Stupid-ass politics and pettiness. Why do you care who gets it done? I would support Biden's efforts if he wanted to get it done.
We need it and we can afford to pay for it. He have a defense budget of almost 700 billion a year.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
First things, first. You admit Trump lied to Americans for years on how his vanity wall was going to be funded?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 11:51:41 AM
You're hopeless.
He didn't get it done. that doesn't mean he lied. Bit that is not even the point of this thread. The point is that we need border security and you want to ignore that and focus on Trump.
We could finish the wall and secure the border in a very short amount of time.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 11:53:04 AM
You are the one deflecting and introducing strawman arguments. This discussion is not about Trump, it's about securing the border.
You agree we need to do and and that we could do it with a wall and technology, but you deflect that and it all comes down to "Trump lied" and that's where it ends with you.
Pathetic and stupid.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 12:00:00 PM
You are the one deflecting and introducing strawman arguments.
Deflect, deflect, deflect.
Did Trump, or did he not, lie about how his vanity wall would be funded?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 12:23:30 PM
No, I don't think that he lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I think he believed that Mexico would pay for the wall.
And by pay for the wall I never felt that Trump was saying that Mexico would directly pay for the wall with a written check.
What Trump said was that he would withhold remittance back to Mexico, which amounts to 24 billion dollars a year or something like that. He also said that they would indirectly pay for the wall.
But I never cared about any of that. I just wanted the wall built and the border secured. Trump was the only guy that ever actually started to get that done. That's what I cared about.
But to answer your question, no I don't believe that Trump lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I believe that he didn't get it done. I believe that he would have loved to have Mexico pay for the wall and I believe that he thought he could do it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 12:27:20 PM
But to answer your question, no I don't believe that Trump lied about Mexico pain for the wall. I believe that he didn't get it done. I believe that he would have loved to have Mexico pay for the wall and I believe that he thought he could do it.
So he is delusional and ineffective, but not technically a liar?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2022, 01:03:59 PM
Walls and fences are effective in reducing encroachment, which is why they have been used from antiquity through today. They continue to be widely used around military bases, airports, schools, high-end homes, the Vatican, Israel, secure storage locations, power plants, electrical substations, water-treatment plants, construction areas, pools, parking areas, ports, and so on.
Of course a wall isn't going to stop 100% of people. Window screens don't keep out 100% of insects. Sunscreen doesn't block out 100% of UV. Medicine doesn't have a 100% cure rate. They are still useful.
Hungary is an example.
In 2015, there was the Migrant Crisis in Europe ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 ).
Illegal immigration into Hungary went to over 300,000 per year (mostly through Serbian border).
They put up a fence along the border with Serbia.
Here is a chart of number of illegal immigrants per day, reported by Hungary across the time of completion of the project.
Of the 2000 mile border, some of that probably does not need a wall or fence.
Yeah, like 70%. Thank you for admitting I was right.
There vast regions of nothingness and impassable mountains that it would be utterly ignorant to try and build a wall across.
Placement of remote sensors and air borne surveillance drone is the much more intelligent approach. But a reasonable approach like that doesn't whip up the armies of mouth-frothing MAGA supporters at his rallies quite as well. Especially if you don't lie about who has to pay for it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2022, 01:37:58 PM
You are welcome. I said you were right many times, specifically about: 1. It is cheaper and faster in a lot of cases to do surveillance instead of a wall. 2. An important part of the solution is to remove the motivation for illegal immigration (prosecute employers, don't give illegal immigrants free stuff and let them stay, etc.).
The problem is that both of those things rely on administrations doing their jobs.
But we know that doesn't happen sometimes. There come administrations at times who will be against it, don't do it, and maybe actively undermine it.
Walls are resistant to such vagaries.
Even if you are building a wall, though, you don't build it up a cliff. You build it on parts that people can or previously did cross.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Dichotomy on July 10, 2022, 01:47:36 PM
You are welcome. I said you were right many times, specifically about: 1. It is cheaper and faster in a lot of cases to do surveillance instead of a wall. 2. An important part of the solution is to remove the motivation for illegal immigration (prosecute employers, don't give illegal immigrants free stuff and let them stay, etc.).
The problem is that both of those things rely on administrations doing their jobs.
But we know that doesn't happen sometimes. There come administrations at times who will be against it, don't do it, and maybe actively undermine it.
Walls are resistant to such vagaries.
Even if you are building a wall, though, you don't build it up a cliff. You build it on parts that people can or previously did cross.
Then they'll just find the 'holes' and figure out a way to get through them. Drug dealers have been doing it for years and the drug dealers I knew were pretty damn creative. Bottom line is securing the border is a political talking point that gets headlines and column inches. It's an impossible dream.
Now I'm not saying that building a 'wall' or a 'fence' won't be effective. But people who are determined to enter this country illegally will find a way every time. Doesn't matter if it's a tunnel under the 'wall', a zodiac at some remote beach, or whatever, there is absolutely a 0% chance of 100% closing the border to illegals.
All we have here is a political football and a talking point to the willfully ignorant. Don't care if you're left or right. Using 'securing the borders' is a joke to anybody with a functioning brain to be 100% honest.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: LCADolby on July 10, 2022, 01:52:01 PM
A secure border would be nice, but there is no perfect solution.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 10, 2022, 01:53:40 PM
You are welcome. I said you were right many times, specifically about: 1. It is cheaper and faster in a lot of cases to do surveillance instead of a wall. 2. An important part of the solution is to remove the motivation for illegal immigration (prosecute employers, don't give illegal immigrants free stuff and let them stay, etc.).
And a adjunct to that would be to set up a rational guest worker program. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are not M13 gang members or cartel. The vast majority are just poor people trying to find work to feed their families. Yes, they are breaking the law. I've been known to break the law on occasion going over the posted speed limit. Because they are brown and speak a different language it is easy for many to vilify them, but maybe just think of them as Okkies. Separate the majority in you mind from the gangs and cartels. Sure. stomp on the cartels all you want.
For the most part their labor benefits our country. You think food inflation is bad now? Wait until whole harvests rot in the fields because they can't be harvested. And we don't want Americans doing those jobs. We want to educate Americans and move them up the value chain. Let the poor rural Mexicans come in to harvest the cantaloupes. It's a win-win. And under a guest worker program it can be controlled and monitored and we can make sure they don't get abused by those would take advantage of their vulnerable status.
Demographic changes in the US are going to make that sort of labor exchange more and more useful over the coming decades.
Of course none of that is red meat for Trump rallies.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 10, 2022, 01:57:50 PM
Then they'll just find the 'holes' and figure out a way to get through them. Drug dealers have been doing it for years and the drug dealers I knew were pretty damn creative.
Yes. A wall won't be 100%.
But barriers reduce flow. Which is why they are used at military bases, airports, storage facilities, parking facilities, homes, Israel, the Vatican, pools, etc. And at some borders.
You can get effects like this for simple fencing:
"Building a fence curtailed this. In 1992, Border Patrol reported apprehending 565,581 migrants in the San Diego sector, with a much larger number likely evading capture. Preliminary fence construction in the mid-1990s brought that number below 200,000 by 1999." https://www.wola.org/analysis/wola-report-lessons-san-diegos-border-wall/
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2022, 02:20:37 PM
Yep. But it depends on administrations enforcing things. That's the worrisome vulnerability.
It all comes down to do you want real adult rational solutions or ridiculous vanity boondoggles that are easier for mouth breathing zealots to understand.
"A guest worker what?" " A WALL! A big shiny, beautiful WALL! and MEXICO is going to PAY FOR IT!" "A Wall! Fk Yeah! Build that WALL!"
Instead he stole money from the Pentagon fund they use for upgrading military housing so our young soldiers putting their lives on the line don't have to have their families living in near slum conditions.
MAGA.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2022, 03:24:19 PM
It all comes down to do you want real adult rational solutions or ridiculous vanity boondoggles that are easier for mouth breathing zealots to understand.
The solutions you promote are good -- but they are vulnerable to being ignored or subverted by opposed administrations, which are changing periodically indefinitely into the future.
A wall has far less such vulnerabilities. Factoring in this real-world aspect, to me, makes a wall part of an adult, rational solution.
But it need not be 2000 miles of wall, going up cliffs. It can be a wall blocking routes humans would actually take.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2022, 03:35:31 PM
The solutions you promote are good -- but they are vulnerable to being ignored or subverted by opposed administrations,
And vanity walls are vulnerable to $5 ladders.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 10, 2022, 04:01:26 PM
Anyone have those pre Biden crossing numbers? Why are we talking about a wall that was never built instead of just comparing illegal entree numbers between the present and previous administration? And then ask ourselves why? After all, everyone in this thread claims to be for securing our southern border. So what happened?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 10, 2022, 06:33:24 PM
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 10, 2022, 06:39:14 PM
Yep. Walls and fences do have vulnerabilities. They aren't 100%.
Still, they provide reduction, which is why they are around airports, military bases, pools, storage facilities, etc.
Also, just because there is a wall or fence doesn't mean there is no surveillance/sensors. Typically, walls/fences have some of that, too.
Some examples of success:
Hungary put fences across its border with Serbia. Illegal immigration declined 95%.
Israel built walls on its border. Attacks through that border declined by 90%.
US built fences on San Diego's border. Illegal immigration there declined 95%.
Don't let facts get in the way of their human and drug trafficking operartions, Brooke.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 12:03:50 PM
per U.S. Customs and Boder Protection. Keep in mind there are still a few months left in the '22 fiscal year for the numbers to surpass FY21, which it will.
Total CBP Enforcement Actions Numbers below reflect Fiscal Year (FY) 2017 - FY 2022.
Fiscal Year 2022 runs October 01, 2021 - September 30, 2022.
FY17 FY18 FY19 FY20 FY21 FY22YTD Office of Field Operations (OFO) Total Encounters1 216,370 281,881 288,523 241,786 294,352 308,868 U.S. Border Patrol Total Encounters2 310,531 404,142 859,501 405,036 1,662,167 1,444,886 Total Enforcement Actions 526,901 683,178 1,148,024 646,822 1,956,519 1,753,754
Sorry, but this is on purpose.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 11, 2022, 12:06:24 PM
So, these rising numbers are supposed to reflect 'open borders?'
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 12:10:45 PM
So, these rising numbers are supposed to reflect 'open borders?'
Actually those numbers don't say anything about the rate of border crossings. It is simply the numbers of cases where the CBP intercepted migrants.
So you could just as easily argue this show border security has been stepped up and the current administration is putting much more effort in to secure borders than the previous guy who put most of his effort into playing golf at his hotels.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 12:13:32 PM
Actually those numbers don't say anything about the rate of border crossings. It is simply the numbers of cases where the CBP intercepted migrants.
So you could just as easily argue this show border security has been stepped up and the current administration is putting much more effort in to secure borders than the previous guy who put most of his effort into playing golf at his hotels.
I can argue that the sky is purple, but I would sound like a dumboscar.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 12:19:42 PM
Anyone have those pre Biden crossing numbers? Why are we talking about a wall that was never built instead of just comparing illegal entree numbers between the present and previous administration? And then ask ourselves why? After all, everyone in this thread claims to be for securing our southern border. So what happened?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 12:22:20 PM
Actually those numbers don't say anything about the rate of border crossings. It is simply the numbers of cases where the CBP intercepted migrants.
So you could just as easily argue this show border security has been stepped up and the current administration is putting much more effort in to secure borders than the previous guy who put most of his effort into playing golf at his hotels.
Everyone knows what is going on down there. Instead of trying to spin facts, just embrace this border disaster and admit you are for jamming as many illegals as possible into the country.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 11, 2022, 12:29:07 PM
I made no claim other than the chart is not a graph of the number you think it is.
which is in the title of the data you actually posted yourself.
But you know illegals are entering this country at an alarming rate. You just choose to ignore it. Do you think the massive uptick in crossings is because they think they will be caught? Why the massive uptick to begin with?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 12:38:31 PM
Shall I just repost yours and once again say that yours doesn't support yours ... because that's my claim. :)
So you have nothing? Just waiting for me to come back numbers that support what everyone already knows? Sounds about right.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 11, 2022, 12:41:51 PM
Dang, Rush. You're a bit wound up. If you've got a point to prove then prove it. Don't think you can/did then stick to your guns when you can't, man. :)
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 12:46:02 PM
Dang, Rush. You're a bit wound up. If you've got a point to prove then prove it. Don't think you can/did then stick to your guns when you can't, man. :)
I have nothing I'm trying to prove, so there is no data I need to post.
I'm simply pointing out the chart data you posted denotes CBP interceptions and not rate of crossings (which can't really be known).
It is in the title of the very data you posted.
It could either be a steady percentage of interceptions over a larger volume. or increased effectiveness to intercept over a steady rate of crossings.
Nothing in that data gives any indication of which that is. Regardless of what you claim.
I've got to work, but this didn't take long. This is only through July, '21, but still enough of a timeline to back up my claim. I'll try to find some more data beyond these dates when I can. Maybe even a census report. You two have a wonderful rest of the day.
I've got to work, but this didn't take long. This is only through July, '21, but still enough of a timeline to back up my claim. I'll try to find some more data beyond these dates when I can. Maybe even a population census report. You two have a wonderful rest of the day.
I look forward to you posing better data and understanding what it means.
Have a nice day, Sparky.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 01:07:20 PM
If you are thinking (#encounters) = (#crossers) x (#borderAgents) x (effectivenessPerAgent), and you want to estimate what (#crossers) looks like over time, we could do this. Assume effectivenessPerAgent is about the same over the past couple years. #borderAgents in 2020 and 2021 was 19,740 and 19,536. 2022 number isn't out yet. 2020 and 2021 are only 1% different, so assume 2022 is about the same.
Given that, #crossers vs time graph would have the same shape as #encounters vs time graph.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 11, 2022, 02:17:39 PM
Based on assumption. Which still conflicts with an 'open borders' claim.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 11, 2022, 02:19:05 PM
Your assumption is: that it isn't a good representation of whatever it is you are imagining.
If you don't think encounters over time is meaningful, make your case.
My case was that someone was using 'encounters over time' to prove their assumption (crossings) when what it actually proves is increased activity by the Border Patrol under a supposed open border stance by the current administration.
We both know the actual number of crossings (or even a presumed increase) can't be proven that way.
It works like this - make a claim, prove the claim ... not make a claim, don't really prove it, challenge others to prove you wrong. Admitting one's presumption is such isn't shameful.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 02:39:45 PM
So, if we are just gong to make stuff up, here is my interpretation:
Based on Rush's mis-interpreted data. Lets assume it means what it doesn't actually mean, just as a thought experiment.
Lets just look at the total number.
FY17
FY18
FY19
FY20
FY21
FY22
526,901
683,178
1,148,024
646,822
1,956,519
1,753,754
What I see is a big jump in Trump's year of 2019. Jeez he really dropped the ball. Maybe a little more Presidenting and a little less golfing Donny.
Big drop in 2020. Maybe...hmmm dunno..global pandemic or something?
2021, 2022 I see make up numbers from those who didn't cross in 2019, plus the normal amount with maybe a little for demographic population growth.
So essentially I see the numbers not being materially different than Trump's 2019 year, ignoring the make-up numbers from under-represented 2019.
That's as valid an interpretation as any you are trying to force on the numbers.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 03:10:06 PM
So, if we are just gong to make stuff up, here is my interpretation:
Based on Rush's mis-interpreted data. Lets assume it means what it doesn't actually mean, just as a thought experiment.
Lets just look at the total number.
FY17
FY18
FY19
FY20
FY21
FY22
526,901
683,178
1,148,024
646,822
1,956,519
1,753,754
What I see is a big jump in Trump's year of 2019. Jeez he really dropped the ball. Maybe a little more Presidenting and a little less golfing Donny.
Or you don't remember the caravans and the democrats who supported them during those months? Care to comment on the numbers from the other 3.5 years of his term or the steep increase in "encounters" since?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: LCADolby on July 11, 2022, 03:11:20 PM
98.36% of statistics are wrong
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 03:15:44 PM
didn't know you live at the border. do you stay up 24/7 counting them?
semp
Many of us have electricity and TVs. The number is in the thousands and not hundreds.
When people that support crime are the victims of crime, it makes me smile.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 11, 2022, 03:59:11 PM
OK, I see what you are meaning.
No, what I posted is not Proof of crossing vs. time. To get such would require omniscience.
Therefore, government agencies and research organizations (Pew Research, for example) use encounters as the basis for analysis, reports of effectiveness, and conclusions regarding amount of illegal immigration.
I do likewise.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 11, 2022, 04:07:13 PM
No, what I posted is not Proof of crossing vs. time. To get such would require omniscience.
Exactly. Which is what I was trying to explain to Rush before he went all DmonSlyer and frothing at the mouth.
You can't know the crossing numbers and trying to use that as a proxy might have a weak correlation. It could also be from improvements in technology and methods of interdiction.
However, as I posted, if you want to run that thought experiment, that the 2021, 2022 are not that out of whack with Trump's 2019 numbers if you consider population growth and make up immigration from those who did not cross over in 2020 due to the pandemic.
So no one has claimed that no illegal immigration has occurred, although the most shocking increase in the numbers Rush posted occurred in Trump's 2019 year. Then Rush decided he didn't like his numbers so much anymore.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 06:29:03 PM
Exactly. Which is what I was trying to explain to Rush before he went all DmonSlyer and frothing at the mouth.
You can't know the crossing numbers and trying to use that as a proxy might have a weak correlation. It could also be from improvements in technology and methods of interdiction.
However, as I posted, if you want to run that thought experiment, that the 2021, 2022 are not that out of whack with Trump's 2019 numbers if you consider population growth and make up immigration from those who did not cross over in 2020 due to the pandemic.
So no one has claimed that no illegal immigration has occurred, although the most shocking increase in the numbers Rush posted occurred in Trump's 2019 year. Then Rush decided he didn't like his numbers so much anymore.
Actually, '19 is not the most shocking if you understand math and there was an obvious event that caused it (as I touched on) as it only lasted one of four years under Trump.
You still have not explained why the spike under Biden, though, and why there are no signs of it calming back down. This is considered a trend.
Also, there are plenty of studies showing the population increase of illegals within the U.S. under Biden compared to previous years.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 06:56:13 PM
Yeah. The event was apparently Trump's mis-management.
So in a sense I guess it wasn't shocking. Pretty much par for the course.
So if you are saying that Trump mismanaged '19, you must also be admitting he managed the other 3 years pretty well. It would also indicate that you feel Biden has not only mismanaged the border since taking office, but mismanaged it much worse than Trump.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 07:14:50 PM
So if you are saying that Trump mismanaged '19, you must also be admitting he managed the other 3 years pretty well.
Look like it took him a couple of years to screw it up. Then the pandemic saved him in the last year. But 2019. Jeez. What was he thinking? Too busy trying to hump his daughter?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 07:18:21 PM
Look like it took him a couple of years to screw it up. Then the pandemic saved him in the last year. But 2019. Jeez. What was he thinking? Too busy trying to hump his daughter?
How old are you?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 07:21:06 PM
I don't know, but I'm beginning to figure it out. Thanks for all of the hints.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: MiloMorai on July 11, 2022, 07:41:00 PM
If Americans would stop doing drugs, there would be a decrease in the number of people wanting to cross the border as where they came from would be a lot more livable.
The Great Wall of China didn't stop all invasions of undesirables. Genghis Khan (1162 - 1227), the founder of the Mongol Empire, was the only one who breached the Great Wall of China in its 2,700-year-history. In his lifetime, Genghis Khan led his Mongolian army to break through the Great Wall not only once, but several times at Wusha Fortress, Juyongguan, Zijingguan, and Tongguan, etc. These successes were a big help in overthrowing of the Jin Dynasty (1115 - 1234 AD) and founding of the Yuan Dynasty (1271 - 1368 AD).
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 11, 2022, 07:46:47 PM
If Americans would stop doing drugs, there would be a decrease in the number of people wanting to cross the border as where they came from would be a lot more livable.
The Great Wall of China didn't stop all invasions of undesirables. Genghis Khan (1162 - 1227), the founder of the Mongol Empire, was the only one who breached the Great Wall of China in its 2,700-year-history. In his lifetime, Genghis Khan led his Mongolian army to break through the Great Wall not only once, but several times at Wusha Fortress, Juyongguan, Zijingguan, and Tongguan, etc. These successes were a big help in overthrowing of the Jin Dynasty (1115 - 1234 AD) and founding of the Yuan Dynasty (1271 - 1368 AD).
he bribed the guards.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2022, 07:54:21 PM
Denying well known and documents facts in your last ~10 posts, then making a baseless false accusation of incest and responding by saying “it’s well known”. :rofl :rofl
The epitome of hypocrisy.
You are aware of the “well known” fact of Biden showering with his prepubescent daughter Ashley and all of her mental issues since???
Maybe the current President’s matters should concern you JUST A TAD bit more than the last one given how smoothly things are going :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: guncrasher on July 11, 2022, 09:17:19 PM
Denying well known and documents facts in your last ~10 posts, then making a baseless false accusation of incest and responding by saying “it’s well known”. :rofl :rofl
The epitome of hypocrisy.
You are aware of the “well known” fact of Biden showering with his prepubescent daughter Ashley and all of her mental issues since???
Maybe the current President’s matters should concern you JUST A TAD bit more than the last one given how smoothly things are going :rolleyes:
trump got accused by a 13 year old girl. in fact he said if his daughter wasn't related to him he would date her.
what kind of father thinks that? my daughter is hot, too bad we are related.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: MiloMorai on July 11, 2022, 09:17:32 PM
a hacker broke into the icloud or cloud backup of Hunter Biden. Everything supposedly that was on the laptop and his cell phones/ other computers. Then the hacker seeded it online so that it's everywhere and no chance of it being disappeared.
so I've seen some of it that other people have posted.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 11, 2022, 09:42:10 PM
a hacker broke into the icloud or cloud backup of Hunter Biden. Everything supposedly that was on the laptop and his cell phones/ other computers. Then the hacker seeded it online so that it's everywhere and no chance of it being disappeared.
so I've seen some of it that other people have posted.
Yup, was just about to say that. They will cover it up, but stuff is gonna get out. :eek:
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 11, 2022, 09:47:16 PM
There's videos of Hunter all over Twitter.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: MiloMorai on July 11, 2022, 09:49:39 PM
a hacker broke into the icloud or cloud backup of Hunter Biden. Everything supposedly that was on the laptop and his cell phones/ other computers. Then the hacker seeded it online so that it's everywhere and no chance of it being disappeared.
so I've seen some of it that other people have posted.
So no problem posting links then?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 11, 2022, 09:51:08 PM
a hacker broke into the icloud or cloud backup of Hunter Biden. Everything supposedly that was on the laptop and his cell phones/ other computers. Then the hacker seeded it online so that it's everywhere and no chance of it being disappeared.
so I've seen some of it that other people have posted.
let me get this right, hunter went to the east coast and showed up at a rundown strip mall. the owner who is basically blind due to health issues got his laptop. hunter never picked it up. he gave a copy to gulliani because I don't know. turned it over to the fbi. why didn't gulliani release the hard drive. why weren't the cameras on at the repair shop that day.
gulliani went several times to Ukraine and said he had plenty of evidence on hunter but he never released any of it.
not saying it wasn't probable that hunter went to the east coast to fix his laptop when he lived on the west coast.
but why?
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: -gg- on July 11, 2022, 09:54:41 PM
here's a news story about it. I'm not posting any links of that nasty stuff.
They're warning people not to download some of the pictures, unless you want to be flagged for having child porn
The Secret Service confirmed Monday that it is aware of reports that the contents of Hunter Biden’s iCloud account were hacked over the weekend, exposing alleged texts, pictures, and videos of the president’s son doing drugs and engaging in other salacious and likely illegal activities.
4chan users claimed they hacked Biden’s phone late Saturday night, posting pictures to the website’s main political forum, according to the Washington Examiner. Many of the posts were taken down by the website.
The Secret Service said they are “aware” of the “social media posts and claims” about Biden, but are not in position to “make public comments on potential investigative actions,” in a statement to National Review.
One video purports to show Biden measuring the amount of crack he had while in conversation with a prostitute.
Another alleged video shows Biden going down a water slide naked, and texts allegedly revealed show Biden claiming that President Joe Biden was in possession of five guns in 2019, despite campaigning on gun control.
Many of the files posted by 4chan were already found on Biden’s abandoned laptop via an iPhone XS backup, according to the Washington Examiner.
Former Secret Service agent and cyber forensics expert Konstantinos “Gus” Dimitrelos previously told the outlet that the contents of the iPhone are authentic.
“Based on my analysis of the iPhone, I conclude the same results as my analysis of the MacBook Pro Laptop hard drive and iCloud synced data. The person who owns and operates this iPhone XS is Robert Hunter Biden,” Dimitrelos said, according to the outlet.
The abandoned laptop also previously revealed that the president knew about his son’s business dealing with China, despite repeatedly claiming that he has “never spoken” to him “about his overseas business dealings.”
Joe Biden left a voicemail on Hunter Biden’s phone after a New York Times released a story in 2018 about the first son’s business dealings with the Chinese oil giant China Energy Company Limited (CEFC), the Daily Mail first reported.
“Hey pal, it’s Dad. It’s 8:15 on Wednesday night. If you get a chance just give me a call. Nothing urgent. I just wanted to talk to you,” the president reportedly said.
“I thought the article released online, it’s going to be printed tomorrow in the Times, was good. I think you’re clear. And anyway if you get a chance give me a call, I love you,” he added.
The New York Times article covered Ye Jianming, the founder of CEFC, being arrested on charges of bribery, and mentioned that he had met with Hunter Biden in a private meeting in 2017 in a bid to secure a business partnership.
After the voicemail was published, the White House press secretary was pressed about the president’s claims that he’d never spoken to his son about foreign business deals.
“Well, first, I’ll say that what the president said stands,” Karine Jean-Pierre said. “So, if he, if that’s what the president said, that, that is what stands.”
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 11, 2022, 10:03:23 PM
Where did everybody go?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2022, 12:45:54 AM
Online to check out Pedo Pete Jr's awesome videos.
But didn't Twitter, YouTube, the FBI and the mainstream media all write off this stuff as misinformation a couple of years ago? I mean, who can we trust these days? Maybe the Late Night shows, or The View?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: zack1234 on July 12, 2022, 01:27:53 AM
Someone has swapped my Ukrainian flag for a Rainbow flag :frown:
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: LCADolby on July 12, 2022, 01:56:44 AM
I'm not asking if you think a wall is effective or not. I'm not asking if you think the border can be secured. I am asking if you WANT the border secured.
Which border are you talking about? Agreed, the border I'm more worried about is only about 1/3 of the length of the border you seem to worry about. Then again, the guys coming across your border don't have nukes.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Eagler on July 12, 2022, 06:43:53 AM
Which border are you talking about? Agreed, the border I'm more worried about is only about 1/3 of the length of the border you seem to worry about. Then again, the guys coming across your border don't have nukes.
How can you say that?
If they can smuggle 100's of 1000's of pounds of coke and cannabis they can sneak a nuke in
I'm guessing that will happen eventually
I have to wonder if that isn't a possible future some want and are arranging for
Are some here actually saying they don't believe potato head sons laptop is real?
I say lets have a Russian collusion/jan 6th play tv trial and explore that evidence..
Then we can have another tv trial on the election changes covid setup in 2020 and how they might have been abused for a specific result..
Without extending these witch hunts to those..the bias and corruption have won out..
Eagler
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 12, 2022, 06:53:23 AM
Online to check out Pedo Pete Jr's awesome videos.
:rofl
While it's funny, it's also sad. This shows a very poor credit to our intelligence agency allowing Biden to become president. They either knew this info, and still thought it was a good idea to have him run for president, which is bad. Or they didn't know, while China and our adversaries knew, which is worse. A huge embarrassment for America any way you look at it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: MiloMorai on July 12, 2022, 08:16:00 AM
While it's funny, it's also sad. This shows a very poor credit to our intelligence agency allowing Biden to become president. They either knew this info, and still thought it was a good idea to have him run for president, which is bad. Or they didn't know, while China and our adversaries knew, which is worse. A huge embarrassment for America any way you look at it.
But, #45 was a bigger embarrassment.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 12, 2022, 08:20:15 AM
I think Shuffler means that he has been in person to the border and observed directly.
He alluded to such, previously, then in a follow up when questioned if he personally monitored the border he bragged about having electricity and a TV set.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Eagler on July 12, 2022, 12:59:11 PM
So all the film of 1000's of illegal immigrants walking, running and swimming across our southern borders are faked?
You believe potato head won 2020 with historic numbers but don't believe the illegal immigration problem nor the hunter laptop story?
CNN and MSNBC might have an opening..if not they might give you a seat on the veiw...lol
Eagler
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 12, 2022, 01:03:13 PM
I think Shuffler means that he has been in person to the border and observed directly.
I very been to the border and seen them cross what I question is saying he sees on a daily bases. not that it doesn't happen but I doubt he sees that on a daily basis. not like we have the illegal crosses Chanel.
semp
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2022, 02:00:14 PM
I very been to the border and seen them cross what I question is saying he sees on a daily bases. not that it doesn't happen but I doubt he sees that on a daily basis. not like we have the illegal crosses Chanel.
semp
I have not been holed up in my home for the last couple of years like some on these boards.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 12, 2022, 02:03:57 PM
Only for those that hate seeing the US prosper and be more secure
Has Biden tried to destroy the democratic process like Trump did?
Trump wouldn't have done any better than what Biden has done with what he has to deal with.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RotBaron on July 12, 2022, 09:45:33 PM
You can sit in the Burger King in Nogales, AZ and watch either illegals go through huge holes in the fence a mere several hundred yards from the Immigration/Customs checkpoint or you can watch TV.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Arlo on July 12, 2022, 09:46:50 PM
You can sit in the Burger King in Nogales, AZ and watch either illegals go through huge holes in the fence a mere several hundred yards from the Immigration/Customs checkpoint or you can watch TV.
Which one do you personally claim as your perspective?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: MiloMorai on July 12, 2022, 10:35:34 PM
The Department of Homeland Security has opened an investigation into "Operation Lone Star", which is Republican Texas governor Greg Abbott's border stunt that has cost the state $3 billion so far, at least.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: RUSH1 on July 12, 2022, 10:53:28 PM
Meanwhile, it is hilarious/sad watching the Lefties try to defend the disaster that is our southern border. It's the equivalent of the Rinos who still try to defend the second Gulf war. You people really do look that ridiculous. Homers will be Homers, though.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: zack1234 on July 13, 2022, 02:07:06 AM
Biden and Clinton are your friends :)
Your masters are playing you :rofl
George Floyd was a nice man
Trumps attempted coup :rofl
You people :rofl
Kimmel :rofl
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Eagler on July 13, 2022, 07:21:59 AM
It can take a while with grand juries and trials and appeals. It might be 5 years before he is actually sitting in a cell.
But Milo is right. The stress might just keel him over. His tongue will swell up like a purple sausage, his eyes bug out and he drops like a sack of sht. Then we can dance around the corpse like wild Indians taking turns to urinate on it.
I'd prefer him to sit in a cell for a couple of years before dropping, but I'll take what I can get.
6 months of AH? :rofl Do you think AH will still be around in 5 years?
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 13, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
Go ahead and arrest Trump before the Clintons, Cheney family, Bush family, Pelosi family, McCain family, and the rest of the dinosaur 40 year politicians and watch a civil war happen. Mark my words. You lefters and Rinos trying to take down Trump will not have a big enough army to stop it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: CptTrips on July 13, 2022, 10:36:38 AM
Go ahead and arrest Trump before the Clintons, Cheney family, Bush family, Pelosi family, McCain family, and the rest of the dinosaur 40 year politicians and watch a civil war happen. Mark my words. You lefters and Rinos trying to take down Trump will not have a big enough army to stop it.
Trump is a has been to the Repub party. True Repubs are seeing that he is a mill stone around the neck.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 13, 2022, 11:00:10 AM
Trump is a has been to the Repub party. True Repubs are seeing that he is a mill stone around the neck.
What's a "true republican", a sell out for the democrats and the UN? Sure seems like it.
A real republican in my book is very patriotic, understands the founding principles of the nation, doesn't sell out to foreign governments, doesn't go to war in foreign countries we don't belong jn to steal their gold and make oil pipelines. They support Americans first, not global intetest, they speak to the people and give them hope for a wealthy prosperous nation. That's exactly what Trump does, that's exactly why he crushed 16 "true republicans" that you speak of. Republicans are idiots for standing with the Dems and many have lost their seats because of it.
Title: Re: Who wants a secure border?
Post by: Eagler on July 13, 2022, 12:19:04 PM